In a nutshell if anything breaks you are screwed ;D
It's an Apple device, what did you expect?
The thing even has an external battery pack, and instead of using USB-C so you could use any power bank you already own, they designed a completely new proprietary connector. In 2024.
Who the fuck does that anymore, except Apple?
It’s even worse. The cable appears to be a bigger version of Lightning, because of course it is.
I can see the argument for having a connector that can’t be pulled out: if you were crossing a busy street or walking down a stairway with one of these strapped to your head and the cable came out, you’d be instantly blind.
Who the fuck wears a VR headset walking in the street, let alone crossing a road?
That is what the AR aspect of this headset is all about. It's AR first VR second.
Actually I would argue it is VR first and AR second because in its dormant, non-powered state your view is completely blocked whereas if it were AR first you would just be looking through transparent glass lenses in its dormant, non-powered state.
Apple’s final destination with this product is AR and they are using it as AR but it is a VR headset replicating an AR experience because we do not have the technology yet to make something like this being AR dominant.
I say AR because they do full video passthrough first and have their UIs try to look a part of the real life environment (shadow effects on irl objects, menus are all semitransparent, etc).
You have to choose to do immersion instead, even the dorky eyes are implied to make it useful in IRL settings.
Not everything is good (the eyes are a total miss, the avatars are uncanny).
First of all this should NOT be the use case, it is dangerous, stupid, idiotic and shows that you dont care for your life and others.
But the proprietary connector plug itself is almost identical to the lightning connector, the only difference is that the bolster has some notches in it for the BATTERY to lock into. All the locking is in the battery, they could have, should have, used USB C or any other existing connector.
the only difference is that the bolster has some notches in it for the BATTERY to lock into
Um, it has twice as many pins. The same number of pins as thunderbolt which likely isn't a coincidence.
I can't imagine it wouldn't. The USB-PD spec can cover a verity of voltage and amperage combinations covering practically any digital electronic device up to 100W.
The only reason it's not used everywhere, is that it does add complexity to extremely simple and inexpensive devices. This thing is not simple or inexpensive, and it doesn't draw more than 100W.
Up to 240W now actually
The USB-PD spec can cover a verity of voltage and amperage combinations
That's not really true - it maxes out at 5 Amps which is only a decent amount of power if you use (relatively) high voltages. Vision Pro runs at 13 volts, which isn't supported by USB and if it was that would only be 65 watts - nowhere near enough to power this product.
Running at higher voltages (USB can do up to 48 volts) would likely have problems, it might be less efficient for example (which would mean they have to give it a larger battery).
I've heard that argument floating around and I don't buy it. Step-up and down converters are a thing.
That's a terrible argument. Apple could have very easily made this run at something other than 13v.
I'd be surprised if the headset even drew 65W, the other points notwithstanding
Yes, and apple did choose not to, so their customers will praise apple that they got ANOTHER only apple connector!
Not to mention the praise for "innovation". I swear to God most of the "innovation" I see is more proprietary or useless shit to screw over the customer. I suppose regarding company priorities that's excellent innovation.
You can use any USB battery with it, just plug it into the battery pack. Why? Because releasing this without a battery and leaving it to the customer to source one would be super weird.
No you can not? It has a lightning connector and a new apple connector, just wow what apple designs is just e-waste.
Battery pack accepts incoming USB-C charging. You can apparently daisy chain chargers together with any USB-C battery pack that can output the right power.
I'm just imagining some goober with a MacBook and Daisy chained battery packs and that weird mouse charger and the stylus sticking out out of their ipad
Yeah but then its another like 300g and then why in the first place have a battery pack? and thats even worse, a lightning output a usb-c input? Next they add a Serial Data input there.
External battery makes sense as the thing without it is already as heavy as a quest 2. Just absolutely no reason not to have it be a standard USB-PD power bank.
It has already, a external battery, it goes to the headset with a lightning ( battery side ) a apple connector ( headset ), so another batter on the already heave battery pack is like having a backpack full of daisy chained battery packs ( dont do it! Fire hazard! ).
I don't think it has power pass through, meaning that the electricity goes into apples battery pack, into the battery, then into a device. A power pass through means, upon battery and device charging, the battery will route the power from the wall (or second battery) directly to the device.
Power pass through is important because without it there's great inefficiency (less run time) and lots of heat. The battery is being both charged and discharged, creating more heat and wearing the battery down significantly. And also for the love of God just let me plug in any battery I want to.
I bet it does have power pass through. Lots of people are going to use this all day at a desk and you'd get to a thousand cycles in just three months if plugging it into the wall just charges the battery. It needs to be passthrough.
It does have power pass through, I have 2, picked them up on release day at the store, power pass through works fine and is how I use it mostly.
My understanding with the “new” lightning cable was that normal USB wouldn’t work since the battery pack also houses a lot of the power regulation tech too to offload it from the headset and this new connector has the ability to manage the power requirements and control other required data between the battery pack and the headset.
Since I am writing already and haven’t posted my thoughts on this thing anywhere I figure I might as well post them here;
Many people consider this device a comical effort from Apple and from the outside it does kind of look like that but having used it for a bit I can say it is a pretty amazing experience and definitely a window into the future of computing and how we interact with the digital world.
I’ve always felt that most tech evolves to be functionally invisible, flint and tinder becomes a lighter and then matches, big clunky wall phones and two way radios eventually became smartphones (wallets, film cameras and so many other devices also got melded into the smart phone), grandfather clocks became wrist watches… all of the tools we use eventually move to be more useful, compact and integrated into our lives. Desktop computing with keyboards, mice, monitors and etc will all be boiled down to a device similar to the Vision Pro but of course smaller and more integratabtle into our daily lives. The Vision Pro is an excellent move forward toward that future. It’s expensive but that is normal for this type of thing and it is following the steps that all cutting edge technology make before it becomes standard. Remember those shoulder bag mobile phones from several decades ago, we couldn’t skip that step to get to the smartphones we have now.
There are many missing features and several things that don’t make sense as to why they did things a certain way. Apple is clearly experimenting here and, yes it is expensive, but no one is being forced into buying one of these things and for every one that sells this type of device will get cheaper and better in the future because this new tech will get feedback and refinement with each user. I am all for it, the more we get things like this the closer it gets to cheaper everyday use.
The price it is at right now, I doubt Apple is getting much in terms of profit, it is loaded with manufacturing techniques and hardware that are not standard or common, this is future tech and cutting edge design and implementation, that always is expensive; like runway model clothes from fashion shows, that is super expensive but eventually the styles, techniques and color and patterns trickle down into the styles of the general population. It will be the same with the Vision Pro. Without stages like this tech moves forward more slowly so having a company willing to experiment like this moves the needle faster and I’m all for it. It’s not for everybody right now but it will be soon, we just have to learn the usability lessons first and the early adopters are paying that price.
I really love this write up, extremely reasonable and makes sense. In the end, it's no bother to me if I don't buy it
I cannot put into words how much I appreciate your kind reply but these will have to do, thank you!
As someone who has built solar battery packs, that’s not how batteries work. They have a single connection (positive and negative), not a charge and separate discharge port. If the charge voltage is the same as the battery voltage, it goes directly to the device.
The only problem is that you can’t keep the battery at 80% charged in this mode, which would be better for battery life while it’s not used.
Yes you can. The battery plugs into the wall with USB-C.
Like said before, what a joke then, headset => battery pack ( apple connector and a lightning connector ) => wall socket ( Usb to ?? ). Apple, next time please add another step where the wall socket connector has a serial connector, just to increase e-waste even more.
I own two, they are pretty great. It is not ideal having a battery pack with a cable but it is not that big of a problem. 98% of my usage so far has been sitting, if I am standing and using it then I am usually not standing using it for 2-3hrs at a time anyway. Most of the areas in my house have a USB-C plug nearby anyway so I just plug in the battery back when I sit down and continue using it, it really isn’t much of an issue.
This issue is similar to how some people love wireless keyboard and some people hate them but for most people it doesn’t matter to much. This is a doesn’t matter too much issue for everyone who has tried this thing, and honestly, if you have the money to buy a Vision Pro then do it or don’t but I don’t think many people are seriously going to be dissuaded from the purchase due to the battery issue. I was concerned about it before purchase but it isn’t really an issue for me after using it a lot over the past few days. Most of my hundreds of hours of VR usage over the past decade have been sitting near a charger anyway, so I won’t really be an issue going forward for me anyway. I’d prefer it to have an onboard battery that would last for a week’s worth of usage but we’re not there yet and I am under no illusions that we should be there now. As far as existing tech goes this device is a window into the future and it is setting the roadmap for how this tech will be used in the future. It only gets better from here.
Woah did you take out a loan or what? If apple is there it doesnt get better, it gets just in the direction "Boring Future Dystopia"
It is pretty hilarious seeing people hate on this thing so much, like you can’t think beyond your own circumstances to allow for the idea that this may be an incredibly useful tool for a certain segment of people and that segment of people may have the the money to spend on tools for their trade and the money I spent on it has an ROI of months based on time saved at my rate of pay.
I am truly truly sorry for you that you think it is a good use of your time to rip on a product that you have never used, is not made for you and has no baring on your life what so ever. I am perfectly happy with my purchase. I have already logged a lot of hours these past few days putting it through its paces and figuring out my workflow with it and my team. We are excited to have this tool available to us and I am also ecstatic to have something that helps with all my sensory issues due to my autism and adhd. This device is exceptional in helping me maintain my focus and dampen any distractions and interruptions.
I am sorry you can’t accept that others have different needs than you. Keep on shaming the handicapped buddy, I am sure it will pay off for you eventually and everyone will see you as that hero of truth in your product reviews for things you’ve never tried before. I am sure spreading your special brand of negativity out into the world will eventually get you all those positive vibes you crave.
Good luck to you, I very much mean that and I am rooting for you.
Don't worry, this person also accused me of making fun of their disability which wasn't only out of left field, it was pathetically lazy.
You’re a little slow. I’ll spell this out for you. Headset to battery with built in connector. Included battery to any battery bank of your choice with any usb-c cable.
Like said, its totally useless either way, either to an another powerbank or to the wall socket. Still it would be utterly useless and could be a fire hazard to daisy chain powerbanks. And next time you can be a little bit more respectful. I did not offended you or said something bad to you.
You read something that was true, falsely claimed it was incorrect, a different person corrected you, and rather than checking to see if you were right, which would be a simple google search, you doubled down that something is not possible. And now that you realize you’re wrong you move the goalposts and say it’s useless either way. It’s exhausting dealing with people like you.
I dont get what you want too. You said you can connect DIRECTLY to the headset with usb-c, then after another comment you said its possible to daisy chain it onto the battery pack ( that is dangerous ), then you said i am lying about that. I dont know anymore too, its just funny to discuss with people like you.
You apple fanboys are more fanatic into the product than everyone else.
Why are you continuing to lie? I never said you can connect directly to it. The parent comment said
“You can use any USB battery with it, just plug it into the battery pack.”
Which is absolutely true. You claimed it was false. I corrected you. I’ve made no other claims about wanting a Vision Pro, loving Apple, or anything else that you are insinuating. Just take the L dude.
I could not find any resources that charging a the Vision Pro battery from an external battery is a safety hazard. It’s using USB spec for power delivery, as long as it receives the correct voltage and current it wouldn’t care what is on the other end.
Sure, some cheap battery banks are not designed to be charged and discharged at the same time, but this is clearly not the case here.
this is you? You DID NOT say you can daisy chain battery packs, you said you can plug it from a usb-c into a wallsocket. I cant decide if you are a troll or just ignorant.
Now you say, you can directly charge the Vision pro with an external battery pack, but who has a lightning connector? and who really builds that?
Imagine if you could just connect it to any battery bank, like I do with my Quest 2 via USB-C. Only 300 bucks.
I’m just correcting the guy who said this was not possible and that Vision Pro did not use usb-c. Didn’t realize people don’t like facts around here.
It uses a proprietary lightning connector on the battery end on the cable for the vision pro, so no it's not possible to simply plug the Vision Pro into any USB-C battery bank, you can however plug it's proprietary battery into USB-C to charge it, which is hillarious
I will give it to @ji17br@lemmy.ml, it IS possible to Daisy Chain a usb-c battery pack to the actual battery of the apple vision pro, but that is a fire hazard, do NOT try it. But i still dont get it if he is just a troll, or a apple fanboy who cant read because everything can be read through siri?
I would never buy a Vision Pro, doesn’t mean I’m not going to correct people when they are wrong about tech.
I meant directly to the headset, of course you can dangerously daisy chain another battery pack with usb-c to the battery pack ( thats a possible fire hazard btw, so please dont try it out thx )
Why is it dangerous? If the battery can deliver 30W then it’s in spec.
Its dangerous like all the other reasons why not to daisy chain a extension cords.
Please explain why. Do you really think an extension cord works the same way as a USB cable?
Daisy chaining extension chords is dangerous because there is a current limit on them and no fuse. Also, the voltage drops the longer the cable is and thus there might not be enough left at the end to power whatever you’re trying to connect.
All of this doesn’t apply to electronically controlled and fused power supplies.
What? That's not a fire hazard at all. Your second battery would provide at most 100 watts which is perfectly safe and not going to cause any fires.
If you submerge the battery in water or stab it with a knife... sure it might catch fire. But that's pretty much the only risk so long as you stick to reputable brands that comply with safety standards.
Actually, if it breaks you get Apple to fix it. I think anyone who is spending $$3500+ on a portable device knows to be careful with it and doesn’t want it to break.
I saw already MULTIPLE people driving and using it, so i dont think they handle it with care
There are plenty of examples of people doing studies stuff with new technology and people die every day from misusing common items, so your point doesn’t really have much to do with the Vision Pro and more to do with how dumb a small segment of the population is, that did not start with the Vision Pro nor will it end with it. That doesn’t mean that Apple designed the thing poorly so I don’t quite understand your point? Was it Apple shouldn’t have made the Vision Pro because someone decided to drive with it on? Are you advocating that there should be warning labels on everything for every possible misuse of a product and the company that made said product should be responsible for every misuse or do you think we should not be blaming the company and designers of the product and should hold the user responsible? Are you saying we should stereotype all people in a group (Vision Pro owners) based on the actions of a handful of idiots who decided to use it in a way that defies common sense? I don’t think stereotyping groups of people based on the actions of a few is really the right thing to do here.
Just think about it for a moment. Apple made a mask, that when you wear it in your face, projects a 3D animated avatar if you face on the outside. That is so weird, f’ed up and dystopian.
I won’t argue about whether this is dystopian, but the practical reason for the face projection is that they wanted to make this not just something you wear sitting alone in your basement, like most other VR headsets. They wanted it to be usable around other people, at a workplace, with family, etc.
Interacting with someone wearing a full face blind is just weird, so they thought that making the eyes visible would help make this a bit more socially usable.
I’m not sure that’s really going to work out — seems at least as awkward as Google’s failed Glass project — but Apple’s design decision has some merit.
Given the number of TV shows and movies around this topic, I can sense this change coming.
If I have to interact with someone that's wearing goggles, I might go full Luddite.
People wear those fucking white stalks hanging from their ears when interacting with people. I see gangs of teens hanging out, all having white stalks on their ears and no one seem to care anymore.
It's not respectful to the person you're interacting with having those dangling around without showing you actually listen to what's being said. Of course people will wear these to show off as soon as possible.
I think we're past this being a disrespectful thing, and it's just how society evolves. There was a time in which anyone carrying around a cellphone (the big, brick ones) were seeing as showoff.
And years ago, if you saw someone with one of those bluetooth "stalks" as you called them in one ear, talking on the phone loudly on the street, you would think "what a douche!" But today, it's so, so, so common, that nobody seems to care anymore, not even myself. Of course, if they're in an enclosed space, or a relatively quiet space, then that will always be annoying.
Do I like this new norm? Not particularly, as I'm old school. But I just accepted it. And there has been a few times in which I had to do it myself (e.g. talking to someone while carrying some boxes or solving a problem with my bank while folding laundry), and it's kind of relieving that I can do this without feeling ashamed - again, because everyone else is doing it.
Google Glass really feels smarter in this particular regard.
Also they decided to stuff everything into the headset.
Maybe making it a separate thing and moving as much mass and volume as possible to something worn on your belt or your back would be a better idea. EDIT: But I do understand how this doesn't fit their marketing.
Especially considering they already put the battery external, if you have to shove a battery in your pocket and run a wire up to your head they might as well have put more of the electronics there too.
It would conserve a lot of weight and space and make it more comfortable to wear
Yes, I didn't see that initially. When they already have it in two parts, the "doesn't fit marketing" part stops making sense.
I agree. I thought they were going to do that to create a lighter, less intrusive headset. This just seems like the worst of both worlds. Maybe processing in the pocket became too hot without ventilation. I thought they were going to plug the thing into an iPhone in the pocket and offload power and processing there, but the Vision is very power hungry so I guess they eliminated that early on.
Honestly, that part doesn't strike me as any stranger than talking to someone wearing aviator sunglasses
It's a VR headset. It's not a social experience.
But that's what Apple is trying to change. They don't call it a VR headset. They don't even use the phrase "virtual reality" because they don't want people thinking of it as a VR headset.
Their goal is to get people used to wearing a headset to do normal "real" world things. They want it to be AR, not VR. It's like getting people used to a touchscreen, or not having a headphone jack, or a big-ass notch in the screen.
Their long-term goal is likely glasses that can do the same things as this headset, but with transparent screens, so that they don't need the outer display. And then it won't be VR-first, it'll be AR-first.
Way to ignore the entire comment and show that you don't understand VR in the slightest, all in one sentence.
Ever heard of Taklings House Party? I've also spent many a night throwing back a few beers and taking turns in Beat Saber.
I wouldn't go so far as fucked up and dystopian. It's just an odd style choice.
I think it's just straight up uncanny valley. Don't think it's especially "dystopian" per se.
Honestly cartoon eyes might have actually worked better here.
should just be some googly eyes
I don't know, I could see the value if it really looked like the mask was semi transparent.
So it's a cool idea, the only problem is that they didn't deliver and the result is creepy instead.
That is so weird, f’ed up and dystopian.
It's not as weird as the Meta Quest, where you literally have no idea wether the person wearing it is looking at you or not.
The view of someone's eyes is very low quality - I'll give you that. But it's better than nothing at all. And I'm not sure they could've done better without doubling the price of the product.
Nah, it's actually much weirder and more unsettling. You can't tell if someone's looking at you when they wear sunglasses either. No one cares. I'd much rather deal with that than creepy inhuman eyes.
But it’s better than nothing at all.
Although there are better solutions than making a facsimile of real eyes, like putting a user-customisable avatar eye/indicator or something on top, which wouldn't get quite as uncanny. At least, not any more than wearing a sleep mask with an eye design on top.
I don’t think I can agree with this.
The face projection was likely an afterthought. They were already deep into the 3D face scan into avatar world with things like continuity camera and lidar. Granted, I don’t believe they are currently able to reposition the face into a completely different angle (top down into forward facing) with continuity camera, but that’s where their tech was going anyway. And they wanted to be able to have user facial expressions in device regardless.
All they did in this case was slap a screen on the front and display the avatar the thing is already generating, then call it a feature and upcharge with a 1000% markup on the total cost.
It’s a gimmick, that’s all it ever was. Meant to make this look like a sleeker device than it is with some clever marketing.
Not dystopian, just disappointing.
A real semi-transparent mask with a projector with a computer with an open architecture would really be a cool thing. Wouldn't be VR or AR, of course. Just projecting text and lowres pictures, like Google Glass. But I'd like that, to be frank. Only not just for one eye, that'd cause headaches and anxiety.
It’s a gimmick, that’s all it ever was. Meant to make this look like a sleeker device than it is with some clever marketing.
Typical Apple. Sad when they do that when a much sleeker device or a much better experience actually exists. Like in 2007, ya knaw ...
That type of display just isn’t feasible at the moment. We are close, quite close. Likely only a few years away. But at the moment, the only stuff coming close to it would cost at least ten times more than apples already inflated price.
I'm convinced that the only reason they did the eye thing is so they can get micro transactions for people buying custom eyes like cats and aliens and shit.
Steve Buscemi
No... Display isn't big enough.
Not only did they make something that weird, they put an absolute shit load of effort into doing so. That teardown video was insane.
I don’t know what I expected but that was mortifying.
This is a fun, silly discussion and I love it!
But hey, what you're seeing is just some internal component, so why would that be mortifying? I found it hilarious!
holy fucking shit what the fuck is that
🎶It's not the best choice...🎶
You've tried the best, now try the rest!
Imagine engineering something that complicated only for it to be a disappointing product. I have no doubt it's a step toward better products but at the same time they could've done better. Maybe spend more time polishing the actual parts that matter instead of creating the world's most complicated weird fake blurry eyes?
I don't think the blurry eye thing is a major important feature. it's just the weirdest
That is literally my point. It took a lot to engineer that, which is seen in the teardown video.
sorry. you mentioned the eyes and then said disappointing product in the same sentence. I don't know if it's disappointing or not but the stupid eye feature wouldn't be the thing that disappointed or impressed me.
I'm waiting for a really nice passthrough productivity headset to happen, and I'm glad this is the direction apple wants to go. I'm sure some company that isn't apple will do it better than this soon.
I don’t think it is a disappointing product, I think it is pretty amazing actually.
Blurry eyes, yeah, that outward facing screen is an interesting choice but it makes sense with that they were going for. Based on all the tech in the Vision Pro I doubt that outward facing screen added much in terms of cost to the Bill of Materials but it is a nifty thing to try out. I’d rather have companies experimenting with this type of thing than only making predictable products over and over again with only minor improvements.
I don’t think it is productive to bad mouth a product that you probably haven’t even tried yet and probably would not be buying anyway.
Apparently you haven't read the reviews
I own two of them, I have been using it extensively since I picked them up on Friday morning from a nearby Apple Store.
But if that isn’t good enough for you, I also extensively read reviews before purchasing them and have continued to read other people’s thoughts on it.
I own two of them
You could have brought multiple other headsets for the price of just one of those.
Read some of my other comments here, I have used pretty much every headset out there and these work better for my needs, by far, than all the rest.
If you spent well over 7 grand on 2 headsets you can only wear one of... You are the level of fanboy beyond cartoonish and there is definitely nothing that could break the illusion needed to justify that sort of insane spending.
Close to 10 grand actually.
It may be hard for you to accept that this may be a useful product for a limited number of people but it is true, I am one of them.
If you want to keep shaming people for using the money they earned through hard work to justify your… I don’t know what it is you are trying to prove, it doesn’t really matter. I just find it kind of silly that you can’t accept that this product isn’t made for you.
I for one applaud companies that are willing to try something different and to push the technological envelope to see what’s possible. I think your comments and negativity will be seen, in time, in a similar light to the naysayers of the iMac, iPod, iPhone, iPad, AirPods and so many non-Apple products that ended up being incredibly successful.
This is not a fully formed standalone product just yet, it is the beginnings of a new market segment, it doesn’t have to be your exact image of perfection for this product type, you need to crawl before you can walk and you need to walk before you can run. Give it time and there will be more universally appealing versions of this, let the bleeding edge adopters beta test this for you and in a few years I think you will owe them a thank you. I’ll be enjoying my time until then using my Vision Pros and giving feedback to Apple about how it can be improved upon to maybe someday win you over.
I bought three of them, one for each eye and one for my dog.
Seems like an interesting setup, got any pictures to share?
Do you think I can afford a camera after spending $15,000 on my Vision Pros?
Well, SatansMaggotyCumFart, I think you spent $15,000 on three pretty awesome cameras actually. Just use a mirror and take a screenshot!
My mirror doesn’t take screenshots.
Oh yeah, that is a problem…
But why would you get two?
For myself and someone else to use at the same time and in conjunction with each other for work purposes. I explain it a few times in other comments I have made here.
If you want to keep shaming people for using the money they earned through hard work
Yes, the once in a lifetime that someone admitted to setting ten grand on fire, I definitely have no shame in shaming them for it. That is more money than I think is fair for most used cars...
In 1994 I played rise of the triad in a "VR" headset. Since that time, we have barely progressed past that. This iteration is an absurdly complicated, severely overpriced hunk of heavy-ass junk just slightly better than some before it.
To tell you the truth, 20 years from now when there's an actually good version of this product, almost certainly not built by apple, I'll only be interested if it's not absurdly expensive. Maybe not even then, we'll see.
You are acting like you're some kind of martyr for being a guinea pig and blowing a fuckton of money in doing so. That's weird and sad.
Ahh I see, you read my link to understand where I am coming from and why I bought them and also I see that you have the mentality of a teenager who is unable to understand that others may have different needs and different levels of consumer spending. Got it.
Well enjoy your life of shaming a mentally handicapped (autism & ADHD with severe sensory issues where this device very much helps diminish) professional documentary filmmaker who finds this device well worth the price. Committing $5,000 more for the second unit was also well worth the price to be able to run dailies with my editor who may be on the other side of the planet from where I am but we can share a virtual editing bay together in real time is much more valuable than the price I paid for that second unit. In terms of business, and especially my business, $5,000 is not a whole lot of money. It will pay for itself in terms of time saved within a month or less based on my average hourly pay. It is a good investment and I am sorry you can’t accept that.
I see you are committed to digging this hole for yourself and feel bad for the people in your life who are very tired of how subjective and stubborn you are, it must be very tiring for them to put up with you, I can very much relate to that in my brief encounter with you. Good luck buddy.
Oh, and, you seem like a very prescient business person with their finger on the pulse of the tech industry when you say that “we have barely moved past” the VR experience back you had back in 1994. Enjoy your myopic pancake view of the world my friend, I hope you change your mind because you are missing out on a pretty great world filled with interesting things that you have never experienced but have strong negative feelings toward.
All of that being said. It would likely have been more wise to wait for the second generation (or at least a month or two for the shine to wear off and the bugs and bugbears to show their faces) before droppjng 10k on two of these things.
They are an incredible bit of kit, but they have their drawbacks and flaws already. Even Marques brownlee, the biggest apple fanboy reviewer, has said it's amazing, but it's very niche, and it's not perfect. That it has some very nice points, but the tech isn't up to speed with the vision. I believe he said something along the lines of it being the vision of the future on the tech of today.
I see that this device works very well for you, and the person you are arguing with is being dumb for not seeing that, but you must see that it works both ways. You are being a bit silly by claiming he is wrong when you are in the minority of specific cases that this VR headset works well for. Also, 3.5k is way too much to drop on one of these things. That's a poor price point for what it does. It's very "apple" to sell a product for 3.5k and just be like "yeah, no, thats what its worth" when if you give it a few months to a year the meta quest 4 (or some other companies VR set) will be out, copying a load of the tech and cool ideas (or more likely improving on the ones people like) but will cost half as much and wont be locked down to the apple ecosystem.
Glad its working out for you, but just like you said to the other commenter, "others may have different needs and different levels of consumer spending" to which i would add, the majority of people cant justify 3.5k on one of these, let alone almost 10k on two.
Waiting for a second generation hardly lets them use the device right now for the purpose they have for it in their profession right now
I'm guessing the second generation will improve the external eye view, which isn't a factor in that user's use which is entirely virtual
Didnt he said, he uses it for the AR use case too? If not then i agree that purchase is not worth it, just buy a quest and you have it for a lot cheaper the metaverse he wants to be in.
Wise to wait a month or two, maybe, maybe not, i have a window to return them free of charge so if they didn’t work for me it would be no cost to me and I wouldn’t have to wait for them to come back in stock if they did indeed work for me, this way I don’t have to stress about it.
I agree with Marques Brownlee, they are incredible but not for everyone and they are definitely not perfect. I think the outward facing screen is ridiculous but I do get where Apple was going with it and do not fault them for trying. This type of product is a moonshot and testing different ideas to see what works in an untested product space is a risk but I am happy Apple is able to release something like this. Could it fail, most definitely, but trying new things is an important component of success.
Do not get me wrong, I am critical of this device, there are many things that either weren’t implemented in time or just do not work that well, but I also bought the first iPhone on release day too and watched as that developed into something more useable and fully featured. I expect the same with the Vision Pro and see many areas where there is room for improvement or functions that work but aren’t quite refined enough yet for the general population. This thing is incredibly niche, I do not deny that, but what gets me about the people who are overly critical of it are that they are so narrowly focused on what they want it to be and at the price they want it to be at that they are completely missing the point that this product is not for them, it is the precursor to what they are envisioning in their mind.
The price is very much what to expect with future technology, and I don’t mean it is fully realized technology of today, I mean it is high priced because it is using a lot of non-standard tech in non-standard ways. It is a prototype of what we will be seeing in 3-5 years as normal. The doubters and critics in this tread are looking at this thing as a failure because it isn’t a product for the masses right now and my point is it is a viable product but for niche markets, of which I feel I am directly targeted as the exact demographic for this and I am incredibly grateful for that.
I do not think it is silly to say it isn’t a viable product, which is what many of the naysayers in this thread who I have been discussing this with are saying, my point is that it is not a viable product for them. Apple had roughly 80,000 Vision Pro’s available for purchase on release day and I am willing to bet that of the target market that is a good mount to out out there. And if you are manufacturing something with this amount of cutting edge tech at that low of a product run then yeah, $3,500 is not a startling amount. The comments are expensive and so is the tooling and manufacturing, licensing and etc is all very expensive to get this thing to market. I am not surprised, that is just the price of niche hardware. Look at RED cameras or professional camera drones or any high tech/low volume device, it is in line and not unexpected to hit a price point in that range. What I find frustrating in all this is how little people understand the costs of what goes into making something like this and the assumption that anyone buying it is getting ripped off. It happens often with Apple products, especially their more high end lines. Sometimes the cost is way out of whack with comparable products, like those way overpriced and outdated Mac Pros, but that is because there are viable alternatives where you do not have to pay the Apple tax to get a similarly spec’s computer. The Vision Pro is a different beast because there really isn’t anything else like it.
I am well aware not everyone can afford a Vision Pro and not everyone has a use for them, but that should not be a criticism for the product, it says more about the person making the criticism than anything else. If it isn’t what you want or is too expensive for you then don’t buy it, no one is forcing this thing on anyone. I am not gloating or bragging about being able to afford buying 2. I am tired of people judging those who bought it and saying they are idiots for wasting their money. I am not an idiot and I did not waste my money on it, I very much feel I got the better end of this deal. I don’t see why I need to accept being maligned for that. Heck dude, there are a lot of people, probably many in this very thread, who have spent more than $5,000 on their gaming computer setup (monitor, computer, gfxcard, keyboard, mouse, etc) and that is more or less just for a hobby. As a business expense that will save me tons of time to review footage and watch cuts in a virtual space with interested parties from across the globe in real time, the price I paid is well worth and much more value than that money other spent on their gaming setup. As a life expense, being able to tune out the myriad distractions and sensory issues I face at every moment, to turn on noise cancellation on my AirPods and tune out the world around me in the Vision Pro so that I can focus on work tasks or just mediating, listening to music or watching a tv show, all things I find difficult to do regularly, this thing is a godsend and that too is well worth the money spent. My issue is when others tell me that I wasted my money on it. Who are they to decide how I should spend it and what I should spend it on and what value it should have to me. That is what is infuriating about some of these vehemently negative comments on here. So immature and clearly biased by other things than just the price of the Vision Pro
There will be competition that will copy parts of the Vision Pro and they will make cheaper variations of the headset and that is ok. That is what competition is all about and how the tech industry works. Products like this are what push that boundary forward faster and if it isn’t a perfect fit for everyone right now, well, that is normal for things like that and is just how these types of products develop over time.
Hey though, Mr_Dr_Oink, I just want to say, in the sea of thoughtless replies and snarky, immature discussion around this I do want to say that I appreciate your well reasoned response to me. Thank you.
I also bought the first iPhone on release day too
Lol no one is surprised there. It's a great way to illustrate my point though. Even just 1-2 years after that first iphone released you could buy phones for far less money that had many more features. Hell even my $40 blackberry could do way more things than the first iphone did, it was basically only lacking a shiny ass touchscreen. I was more than happy to accept the trade-offs and returned my second gen iphone happily after feeling scammed. Went from a shiny toy with a half day battery life to a very useful tool for 1/5 the price whose battery lasted 2 entire days.
Maybe your extreme fanboy-ism has made you forget that the original iPhone didn't have copy and paste or apps, but it's the truth. Maybe you forget that it took the iphone like 12 years to release a phone with a decent camera, but it's true. That original iPhone was extraordinarily limited and overpriced and the same applies today. I can buy dozens of different products for less money than an iphone despite the fact that the iphone is far more locked down and limited and mostly meh in terms of features.
I might not be an apple fanboy, and i might have disagreed with the other poster who bought these two vision pro devices on it being a good idea this early, but you are going waay too hard on this. Your dislike of apple products seems misguided. All touch screen smart phones were awful back then. I remember a Sony xperia x10 that was android based but didn't even have multi-touch amongst a lot of other crap at the time.
Apple , as well as all smartphone products, have come an extremely long way since the original iPhone, and i can't realistically call modern iPhones bad phones. They just aren't and haven't been for years. Even though i think they are inferior to some android phones out there now, the margin is tiny and almost unimportant to the point that the only reason not to buy apple is that you dont have any other apple products.
You are being shitty for the purpose of making yourself feel better or above this guy. I dont take issue with them buying 2 vision devices or even buying 1 if thats what they wanted. I just thought it would be a safer bet and more worth it to wait for a few months or until the next generation personally and wanted to throw in my 2 cents.
Kind of weird to play the disability card like that. Even if your link worked and I was able to read about how this helps with any disability you have, that wouldn't necessarily mean that dropping 3 times more money than it could possibly make sense to on this would be justified.
My point was that decades have gone by and basically 95% of the progress made toward decent VR has been made between 2014 and 2021. This device maybe represents another 2% bump. According to everyone but you, they're still quite clunky.
Enjoy the drastically overpriced devices, and just btw the comment about how this wasn't "that much money" turns my stomach. The privilege-o-meter exploded when you wrote that. The majority of the world's population probably would survive for at least 1.5 years on that sum of money.
As for the weird online-person "I feel sorry for people who know you" shit, I would definitely go out of my way to not interact with someone so extremely out of touch with reality that they would gladly pay 10 grand for a drip of Apple's latest buzz. I would strive for having friends who are opposite to that in every single way possible. I could be an asshole weirdo too and muse about how hard it must be for people who know you, but I'll just leave things here.
In a nutshell if anything breaks you are screwed ;D
It's an Apple device, what did you expect?
The thing even has an external battery pack, and instead of using USB-C so you could use any power bank you already own, they designed a completely new proprietary connector. In 2024.
Who the fuck does that anymore, except Apple?
It’s even worse. The cable appears to be a bigger version of Lightning, because of course it is.
I can see the argument for having a connector that can’t be pulled out: if you were crossing a busy street or walking down a stairway with one of these strapped to your head and the cable came out, you’d be instantly blind.
Who the fuck wears a VR headset walking in the street, let alone crossing a road?
Walking in the street with a vr set on, that would be silly
No one, yet. The idea is (very obviously, I might mention) that we will be wearing AR or VR glasses just like many wear a smartwatch or carry a phone.
https://youtu.be/UvkgmyfMPks?si=dfGF9Zw5u0e3gZXR
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https://piped.video/UvkgmyfMPks?si=dfGF9Zw5u0e3gZXR
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
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Apart from Apple users?
That is what the AR aspect of this headset is all about. It's AR first VR second.
Actually I would argue it is VR first and AR second because in its dormant, non-powered state your view is completely blocked whereas if it were AR first you would just be looking through transparent glass lenses in its dormant, non-powered state.
Apple’s final destination with this product is AR and they are using it as AR but it is a VR headset replicating an AR experience because we do not have the technology yet to make something like this being AR dominant.
I say AR because they do full video passthrough first and have their UIs try to look a part of the real life environment (shadow effects on irl objects, menus are all semitransparent, etc).
You have to choose to do immersion instead, even the dorky eyes are implied to make it useful in IRL settings.
Not everything is good (the eyes are a total miss, the avatars are uncanny).
First of all this should NOT be the use case, it is dangerous, stupid, idiotic and shows that you dont care for your life and others.
But the proprietary connector plug itself is almost identical to the lightning connector, the only difference is that the bolster has some notches in it for the BATTERY to lock into. All the locking is in the battery, they could have, should have, used USB C or any other existing connector.
Um, it has twice as many pins. The same number of pins as thunderbolt which likely isn't a coincidence.
Exactly, so it could've just been USB C
Did USB-c match their needs?
I can't imagine it wouldn't. The USB-PD spec can cover a verity of voltage and amperage combinations covering practically any digital electronic device up to 100W.
The only reason it's not used everywhere, is that it does add complexity to extremely simple and inexpensive devices. This thing is not simple or inexpensive, and it doesn't draw more than 100W.
Up to 240W now actually
That's not really true - it maxes out at 5 Amps which is only a decent amount of power if you use (relatively) high voltages. Vision Pro runs at 13 volts, which isn't supported by USB and if it was that would only be 65 watts - nowhere near enough to power this product.
Running at higher voltages (USB can do up to 48 volts) would likely have problems, it might be less efficient for example (which would mean they have to give it a larger battery).
I've heard that argument floating around and I don't buy it. Step-up and down converters are a thing.
That's a terrible argument. Apple could have very easily made this run at something other than 13v.
I'd be surprised if the headset even drew 65W, the other points notwithstanding
Yes, and apple did choose not to, so their customers will praise apple that they got ANOTHER only apple connector!
Not to mention the praise for "innovation". I swear to God most of the "innovation" I see is more proprietary or useless shit to screw over the customer. I suppose regarding company priorities that's excellent innovation.
You can use any USB battery with it, just plug it into the battery pack. Why? Because releasing this without a battery and leaving it to the customer to source one would be super weird.
No you can not? It has a lightning connector and a new apple connector, just wow what apple designs is just e-waste.
Battery pack accepts incoming USB-C charging. You can apparently daisy chain chargers together with any USB-C battery pack that can output the right power.
I'm just imagining some goober with a MacBook and Daisy chained battery packs and that weird mouse charger and the stylus sticking out out of their ipad
Yeah but then its another like 300g and then why in the first place have a battery pack? and thats even worse, a lightning output a usb-c input? Next they add a Serial Data input there.
External battery makes sense as the thing without it is already as heavy as a quest 2. Just absolutely no reason not to have it be a standard USB-PD power bank.
It has already, a external battery, it goes to the headset with a lightning ( battery side ) a apple connector ( headset ), so another batter on the already heave battery pack is like having a backpack full of daisy chained battery packs ( dont do it! Fire hazard! ).
I don't think it has power pass through, meaning that the electricity goes into apples battery pack, into the battery, then into a device. A power pass through means, upon battery and device charging, the battery will route the power from the wall (or second battery) directly to the device.
Power pass through is important because without it there's great inefficiency (less run time) and lots of heat. The battery is being both charged and discharged, creating more heat and wearing the battery down significantly. And also for the love of God just let me plug in any battery I want to.
I bet it does have power pass through. Lots of people are going to use this all day at a desk and you'd get to a thousand cycles in just three months if plugging it into the wall just charges the battery. It needs to be passthrough.
It does have power pass through, I have 2, picked them up on release day at the store, power pass through works fine and is how I use it mostly.
My understanding with the “new” lightning cable was that normal USB wouldn’t work since the battery pack also houses a lot of the power regulation tech too to offload it from the headset and this new connector has the ability to manage the power requirements and control other required data between the battery pack and the headset.
Since I am writing already and haven’t posted my thoughts on this thing anywhere I figure I might as well post them here;
Many people consider this device a comical effort from Apple and from the outside it does kind of look like that but having used it for a bit I can say it is a pretty amazing experience and definitely a window into the future of computing and how we interact with the digital world.
I’ve always felt that most tech evolves to be functionally invisible, flint and tinder becomes a lighter and then matches, big clunky wall phones and two way radios eventually became smartphones (wallets, film cameras and so many other devices also got melded into the smart phone), grandfather clocks became wrist watches… all of the tools we use eventually move to be more useful, compact and integrated into our lives. Desktop computing with keyboards, mice, monitors and etc will all be boiled down to a device similar to the Vision Pro but of course smaller and more integratabtle into our daily lives. The Vision Pro is an excellent move forward toward that future. It’s expensive but that is normal for this type of thing and it is following the steps that all cutting edge technology make before it becomes standard. Remember those shoulder bag mobile phones from several decades ago, we couldn’t skip that step to get to the smartphones we have now.
There are many missing features and several things that don’t make sense as to why they did things a certain way. Apple is clearly experimenting here and, yes it is expensive, but no one is being forced into buying one of these things and for every one that sells this type of device will get cheaper and better in the future because this new tech will get feedback and refinement with each user. I am all for it, the more we get things like this the closer it gets to cheaper everyday use.
The price it is at right now, I doubt Apple is getting much in terms of profit, it is loaded with manufacturing techniques and hardware that are not standard or common, this is future tech and cutting edge design and implementation, that always is expensive; like runway model clothes from fashion shows, that is super expensive but eventually the styles, techniques and color and patterns trickle down into the styles of the general population. It will be the same with the Vision Pro. Without stages like this tech moves forward more slowly so having a company willing to experiment like this moves the needle faster and I’m all for it. It’s not for everybody right now but it will be soon, we just have to learn the usability lessons first and the early adopters are paying that price.
I really love this write up, extremely reasonable and makes sense. In the end, it's no bother to me if I don't buy it
I cannot put into words how much I appreciate your kind reply but these will have to do, thank you!
As someone who has built solar battery packs, that’s not how batteries work. They have a single connection (positive and negative), not a charge and separate discharge port. If the charge voltage is the same as the battery voltage, it goes directly to the device.
The only problem is that you can’t keep the battery at 80% charged in this mode, which would be better for battery life while it’s not used.
Yes you can. The battery plugs into the wall with USB-C.
Like said before, what a joke then, headset => battery pack ( apple connector and a lightning connector ) => wall socket ( Usb to ?? ). Apple, next time please add another step where the wall socket connector has a serial connector, just to increase e-waste even more.
I own two, they are pretty great. It is not ideal having a battery pack with a cable but it is not that big of a problem. 98% of my usage so far has been sitting, if I am standing and using it then I am usually not standing using it for 2-3hrs at a time anyway. Most of the areas in my house have a USB-C plug nearby anyway so I just plug in the battery back when I sit down and continue using it, it really isn’t much of an issue.
This issue is similar to how some people love wireless keyboard and some people hate them but for most people it doesn’t matter to much. This is a doesn’t matter too much issue for everyone who has tried this thing, and honestly, if you have the money to buy a Vision Pro then do it or don’t but I don’t think many people are seriously going to be dissuaded from the purchase due to the battery issue. I was concerned about it before purchase but it isn’t really an issue for me after using it a lot over the past few days. Most of my hundreds of hours of VR usage over the past decade have been sitting near a charger anyway, so I won’t really be an issue going forward for me anyway. I’d prefer it to have an onboard battery that would last for a week’s worth of usage but we’re not there yet and I am under no illusions that we should be there now. As far as existing tech goes this device is a window into the future and it is setting the roadmap for how this tech will be used in the future. It only gets better from here.
Woah did you take out a loan or what? If apple is there it doesnt get better, it gets just in the direction "Boring Future Dystopia"
It is pretty hilarious seeing people hate on this thing so much, like you can’t think beyond your own circumstances to allow for the idea that this may be an incredibly useful tool for a certain segment of people and that segment of people may have the the money to spend on tools for their trade and the money I spent on it has an ROI of months based on time saved at my rate of pay.
I am truly truly sorry for you that you think it is a good use of your time to rip on a product that you have never used, is not made for you and has no baring on your life what so ever. I am perfectly happy with my purchase. I have already logged a lot of hours these past few days putting it through its paces and figuring out my workflow with it and my team. We are excited to have this tool available to us and I am also ecstatic to have something that helps with all my sensory issues due to my autism and adhd. This device is exceptional in helping me maintain my focus and dampen any distractions and interruptions.
I am sorry you can’t accept that others have different needs than you. Keep on shaming the handicapped buddy, I am sure it will pay off for you eventually and everyone will see you as that hero of truth in your product reviews for things you’ve never tried before. I am sure spreading your special brand of negativity out into the world will eventually get you all those positive vibes you crave.
Good luck to you, I very much mean that and I am rooting for you.
Don't worry, this person also accused me of making fun of their disability which wasn't only out of left field, it was pathetically lazy.
You’re a little slow. I’ll spell this out for you. Headset to battery with built in connector. Included battery to any battery bank of your choice with any usb-c cable.
Like said, its totally useless either way, either to an another powerbank or to the wall socket. Still it would be utterly useless and could be a fire hazard to daisy chain powerbanks. And next time you can be a little bit more respectful. I did not offended you or said something bad to you.
You read something that was true, falsely claimed it was incorrect, a different person corrected you, and rather than checking to see if you were right, which would be a simple google search, you doubled down that something is not possible. And now that you realize you’re wrong you move the goalposts and say it’s useless either way. It’s exhausting dealing with people like you.
I dont get what you want too. You said you can connect DIRECTLY to the headset with usb-c, then after another comment you said its possible to daisy chain it onto the battery pack ( that is dangerous ), then you said i am lying about that. I dont know anymore too, its just funny to discuss with people like you.
You apple fanboys are more fanatic into the product than everyone else.
Why are you continuing to lie? I never said you can connect directly to it. The parent comment said
“You can use any USB battery with it, just plug it into the battery pack.”
Which is absolutely true. You claimed it was false. I corrected you. I’ve made no other claims about wanting a Vision Pro, loving Apple, or anything else that you are insinuating. Just take the L dude.
I could not find any resources that charging a the Vision Pro battery from an external battery is a safety hazard. It’s using USB spec for power delivery, as long as it receives the correct voltage and current it wouldn’t care what is on the other end.
Sure, some cheap battery banks are not designed to be charged and discharged at the same time, but this is clearly not the case here.
Now you say, you can directly charge the Vision pro with an external battery pack, but who has a lightning connector? and who really builds that?
Imagine if you could just connect it to any battery bank, like I do with my Quest 2 via USB-C. Only 300 bucks.
I’m just correcting the guy who said this was not possible and that Vision Pro did not use usb-c. Didn’t realize people don’t like facts around here.
It uses a proprietary lightning connector on the battery end on the cable for the vision pro, so no it's not possible to simply plug the Vision Pro into any USB-C battery bank, you can however plug it's proprietary battery into USB-C to charge it, which is hillarious
I will give it to @ji17br@lemmy.ml, it IS possible to Daisy Chain a usb-c battery pack to the actual battery of the apple vision pro, but that is a fire hazard, do NOT try it. But i still dont get it if he is just a troll, or a apple fanboy who cant read because everything can be read through siri?
I would never buy a Vision Pro, doesn’t mean I’m not going to correct people when they are wrong about tech.
You’re wrong, go watch some review videos.
I meant directly to the headset, of course you can dangerously daisy chain another battery pack with usb-c to the battery pack ( thats a possible fire hazard btw, so please dont try it out thx )
Why is it dangerous? If the battery can deliver 30W then it’s in spec.
Its dangerous like all the other reasons why not to daisy chain a extension cords.
Please explain why. Do you really think an extension cord works the same way as a USB cable?
Daisy chaining extension chords is dangerous because there is a current limit on them and no fuse. Also, the voltage drops the longer the cable is and thus there might not be enough left at the end to power whatever you’re trying to connect.
All of this doesn’t apply to electronically controlled and fused power supplies.
What? That's not a fire hazard at all. Your second battery would provide at most 100 watts which is perfectly safe and not going to cause any fires.
If you submerge the battery in water or stab it with a knife... sure it might catch fire. But that's pretty much the only risk so long as you stick to reputable brands that comply with safety standards.
Actually, if it breaks you get Apple to fix it. I think anyone who is spending $$3500+ on a portable device knows to be careful with it and doesn’t want it to break.
I saw already MULTIPLE people driving and using it, so i dont think they handle it with care
There are plenty of examples of people doing studies stuff with new technology and people die every day from misusing common items, so your point doesn’t really have much to do with the Vision Pro and more to do with how dumb a small segment of the population is, that did not start with the Vision Pro nor will it end with it. That doesn’t mean that Apple designed the thing poorly so I don’t quite understand your point? Was it Apple shouldn’t have made the Vision Pro because someone decided to drive with it on? Are you advocating that there should be warning labels on everything for every possible misuse of a product and the company that made said product should be responsible for every misuse or do you think we should not be blaming the company and designers of the product and should hold the user responsible? Are you saying we should stereotype all people in a group (Vision Pro owners) based on the actions of a handful of idiots who decided to use it in a way that defies common sense? I don’t think stereotyping groups of people based on the actions of a few is really the right thing to do here.
Just think about it for a moment. Apple made a mask, that when you wear it in your face, projects a 3D animated avatar if you face on the outside. That is so weird, f’ed up and dystopian.
I won’t argue about whether this is dystopian, but the practical reason for the face projection is that they wanted to make this not just something you wear sitting alone in your basement, like most other VR headsets. They wanted it to be usable around other people, at a workplace, with family, etc.
Interacting with someone wearing a full face blind is just weird, so they thought that making the eyes visible would help make this a bit more socially usable.
I’m not sure that’s really going to work out — seems at least as awkward as Google’s failed Glass project — but Apple’s design decision has some merit.
Given the number of TV shows and movies around this topic, I can sense this change coming.
If I have to interact with someone that's wearing goggles, I might go full Luddite.
People wear those fucking white stalks hanging from their ears when interacting with people. I see gangs of teens hanging out, all having white stalks on their ears and no one seem to care anymore.
It's not respectful to the person you're interacting with having those dangling around without showing you actually listen to what's being said. Of course people will wear these to show off as soon as possible.
I think we're past this being a disrespectful thing, and it's just how society evolves. There was a time in which anyone carrying around a cellphone (the big, brick ones) were seeing as showoff.
And years ago, if you saw someone with one of those bluetooth "stalks" as you called them in one ear, talking on the phone loudly on the street, you would think "what a douche!" But today, it's so, so, so common, that nobody seems to care anymore, not even myself. Of course, if they're in an enclosed space, or a relatively quiet space, then that will always be annoying.
Do I like this new norm? Not particularly, as I'm old school. But I just accepted it. And there has been a few times in which I had to do it myself (e.g. talking to someone while carrying some boxes or solving a problem with my bank while folding laundry), and it's kind of relieving that I can do this without feeling ashamed - again, because everyone else is doing it.
Google Glass really feels smarter in this particular regard.
Also they decided to stuff everything into the headset.
Maybe making it a separate thing and moving as much mass and volume as possible to something worn on your belt or your back would be a better idea. EDIT: But I do understand how this doesn't fit their marketing.
Especially considering they already put the battery external, if you have to shove a battery in your pocket and run a wire up to your head they might as well have put more of the electronics there too.
It would conserve a lot of weight and space and make it more comfortable to wear
Yes, I didn't see that initially. When they already have it in two parts, the "doesn't fit marketing" part stops making sense.
I agree. I thought they were going to do that to create a lighter, less intrusive headset. This just seems like the worst of both worlds. Maybe processing in the pocket became too hot without ventilation. I thought they were going to plug the thing into an iPhone in the pocket and offload power and processing there, but the Vision is very power hungry so I guess they eliminated that early on.
Honestly, that part doesn't strike me as any stranger than talking to someone wearing aviator sunglasses
It's a VR headset. It's not a social experience.
But that's what Apple is trying to change. They don't call it a VR headset. They don't even use the phrase "virtual reality" because they don't want people thinking of it as a VR headset.
Their goal is to get people used to wearing a headset to do normal "real" world things. They want it to be AR, not VR. It's like getting people used to a touchscreen, or not having a headphone jack, or a big-ass notch in the screen.
Their long-term goal is likely glasses that can do the same things as this headset, but with transparent screens, so that they don't need the outer display. And then it won't be VR-first, it'll be AR-first.
Already there
Not gonna happen for a long time
Way to ignore the entire comment and show that you don't understand VR in the slightest, all in one sentence.
Ever heard of Taklings House Party? I've also spent many a night throwing back a few beers and taking turns in Beat Saber.
I wouldn't go so far as fucked up and dystopian. It's just an odd style choice.
I think it's just straight up uncanny valley. Don't think it's especially "dystopian" per se.
Honestly cartoon eyes might have actually worked better here.
should just be some googly eyes
I don't know, I could see the value if it really looked like the mask was semi transparent.
So it's a cool idea, the only problem is that they didn't deliver and the result is creepy instead.
It's not as weird as the Meta Quest, where you literally have no idea wether the person wearing it is looking at you or not.
The view of someone's eyes is very low quality - I'll give you that. But it's better than nothing at all. And I'm not sure they could've done better without doubling the price of the product.
Nah, it's actually much weirder and more unsettling. You can't tell if someone's looking at you when they wear sunglasses either. No one cares. I'd much rather deal with that than creepy inhuman eyes.
Although there are better solutions than making a facsimile of real eyes, like putting a user-customisable avatar eye/indicator or something on top, which wouldn't get quite as uncanny. At least, not any more than wearing a sleep mask with an eye design on top.
I don’t think I can agree with this.
The face projection was likely an afterthought. They were already deep into the 3D face scan into avatar world with things like continuity camera and lidar. Granted, I don’t believe they are currently able to reposition the face into a completely different angle (top down into forward facing) with continuity camera, but that’s where their tech was going anyway. And they wanted to be able to have user facial expressions in device regardless.
All they did in this case was slap a screen on the front and display the avatar the thing is already generating, then call it a feature and upcharge with a 1000% markup on the total cost.
It’s a gimmick, that’s all it ever was. Meant to make this look like a sleeker device than it is with some clever marketing.
Not dystopian, just disappointing.
A real semi-transparent mask with a projector with a computer with an open architecture would really be a cool thing. Wouldn't be VR or AR, of course. Just projecting text and lowres pictures, like Google Glass. But I'd like that, to be frank. Only not just for one eye, that'd cause headaches and anxiety.
Typical Apple. Sad when they do that when a much sleeker device or a much better experience actually exists. Like in 2007, ya knaw ...
That type of display just isn’t feasible at the moment. We are close, quite close. Likely only a few years away. But at the moment, the only stuff coming close to it would cost at least ten times more than apples already inflated price.
I'm convinced that the only reason they did the eye thing is so they can get micro transactions for people buying custom eyes like cats and aliens and shit.
Steve Buscemi
No... Display isn't big enough.
Not only did they make something that weird, they put an absolute shit load of effort into doing so. That teardown video was insane.
The example video of showing wearing the headset and showing the outer display:
https://valkyrie.cdn.ifixit.com/media/2024/02/03103510/Display-Stack_sm.mp4
It is off putting and reminds me of one of the Robocop 2 Prototypes.
https://www.robocoparchive.com/info/prototypes.htm
I don’t know what I expected but that was mortifying.
This is a fun, silly discussion and I love it!
But hey, what you're seeing is just some internal component, so why would that be mortifying? I found it hilarious!
holy fucking shit what the fuck is that
🎶It's not the best choice...🎶
You've tried the best, now try the rest!
Imagine engineering something that complicated only for it to be a disappointing product. I have no doubt it's a step toward better products but at the same time they could've done better. Maybe spend more time polishing the actual parts that matter instead of creating the world's most complicated weird fake blurry eyes?
I don't think the blurry eye thing is a major important feature. it's just the weirdest
That is literally my point. It took a lot to engineer that, which is seen in the teardown video.
sorry. you mentioned the eyes and then said disappointing product in the same sentence. I don't know if it's disappointing or not but the stupid eye feature wouldn't be the thing that disappointed or impressed me.
I'm waiting for a really nice passthrough productivity headset to happen, and I'm glad this is the direction apple wants to go. I'm sure some company that isn't apple will do it better than this soon.
I don’t think it is a disappointing product, I think it is pretty amazing actually.
Blurry eyes, yeah, that outward facing screen is an interesting choice but it makes sense with that they were going for. Based on all the tech in the Vision Pro I doubt that outward facing screen added much in terms of cost to the Bill of Materials but it is a nifty thing to try out. I’d rather have companies experimenting with this type of thing than only making predictable products over and over again with only minor improvements.
I don’t think it is productive to bad mouth a product that you probably haven’t even tried yet and probably would not be buying anyway.
Apparently you haven't read the reviews
I own two of them, I have been using it extensively since I picked them up on Friday morning from a nearby Apple Store.
But if that isn’t good enough for you, I also extensively read reviews before purchasing them and have continued to read other people’s thoughts on it.
You could have brought multiple other headsets for the price of just one of those.
Read some of my other comments here, I have used pretty much every headset out there and these work better for my needs, by far, than all the rest.
If you spent well over 7 grand on 2 headsets you can only wear one of... You are the level of fanboy beyond cartoonish and there is definitely nothing that could break the illusion needed to justify that sort of insane spending.
Close to 10 grand actually.
It may be hard for you to accept that this may be a useful product for a limited number of people but it is true, I am one of them.
I explain more about it in another post here;
https://lemmy.world/comment/7267113
If you want to keep shaming people for using the money they earned through hard work to justify your… I don’t know what it is you are trying to prove, it doesn’t really matter. I just find it kind of silly that you can’t accept that this product isn’t made for you.
I for one applaud companies that are willing to try something different and to push the technological envelope to see what’s possible. I think your comments and negativity will be seen, in time, in a similar light to the naysayers of the iMac, iPod, iPhone, iPad, AirPods and so many non-Apple products that ended up being incredibly successful.
This is not a fully formed standalone product just yet, it is the beginnings of a new market segment, it doesn’t have to be your exact image of perfection for this product type, you need to crawl before you can walk and you need to walk before you can run. Give it time and there will be more universally appealing versions of this, let the bleeding edge adopters beta test this for you and in a few years I think you will owe them a thank you. I’ll be enjoying my time until then using my Vision Pros and giving feedback to Apple about how it can be improved upon to maybe someday win you over.
I bought three of them, one for each eye and one for my dog.
Seems like an interesting setup, got any pictures to share?
Do you think I can afford a camera after spending $15,000 on my Vision Pros?
Well, SatansMaggotyCumFart, I think you spent $15,000 on three pretty awesome cameras actually. Just use a mirror and take a screenshot!
My mirror doesn’t take screenshots.
Oh yeah, that is a problem…
But why would you get two?
For myself and someone else to use at the same time and in conjunction with each other for work purposes. I explain it a few times in other comments I have made here.
Yes, the once in a lifetime that someone admitted to setting ten grand on fire, I definitely have no shame in shaming them for it. That is more money than I think is fair for most used cars...
In 1994 I played rise of the triad in a "VR" headset. Since that time, we have barely progressed past that. This iteration is an absurdly complicated, severely overpriced hunk of heavy-ass junk just slightly better than some before it.
To tell you the truth, 20 years from now when there's an actually good version of this product, almost certainly not built by apple, I'll only be interested if it's not absurdly expensive. Maybe not even then, we'll see.
You are acting like you're some kind of martyr for being a guinea pig and blowing a fuckton of money in doing so. That's weird and sad.
Ahh I see, you read my link to understand where I am coming from and why I bought them and also I see that you have the mentality of a teenager who is unable to understand that others may have different needs and different levels of consumer spending. Got it.
Well enjoy your life of shaming a mentally handicapped (autism & ADHD with severe sensory issues where this device very much helps diminish) professional documentary filmmaker who finds this device well worth the price. Committing $5,000 more for the second unit was also well worth the price to be able to run dailies with my editor who may be on the other side of the planet from where I am but we can share a virtual editing bay together in real time is much more valuable than the price I paid for that second unit. In terms of business, and especially my business, $5,000 is not a whole lot of money. It will pay for itself in terms of time saved within a month or less based on my average hourly pay. It is a good investment and I am sorry you can’t accept that.
I see you are committed to digging this hole for yourself and feel bad for the people in your life who are very tired of how subjective and stubborn you are, it must be very tiring for them to put up with you, I can very much relate to that in my brief encounter with you. Good luck buddy.
Oh, and, you seem like a very prescient business person with their finger on the pulse of the tech industry when you say that “we have barely moved past” the VR experience back you had back in 1994. Enjoy your myopic pancake view of the world my friend, I hope you change your mind because you are missing out on a pretty great world filled with interesting things that you have never experienced but have strong negative feelings toward.
All of that being said. It would likely have been more wise to wait for the second generation (or at least a month or two for the shine to wear off and the bugs and bugbears to show their faces) before droppjng 10k on two of these things.
They are an incredible bit of kit, but they have their drawbacks and flaws already. Even Marques brownlee, the biggest apple fanboy reviewer, has said it's amazing, but it's very niche, and it's not perfect. That it has some very nice points, but the tech isn't up to speed with the vision. I believe he said something along the lines of it being the vision of the future on the tech of today.
I see that this device works very well for you, and the person you are arguing with is being dumb for not seeing that, but you must see that it works both ways. You are being a bit silly by claiming he is wrong when you are in the minority of specific cases that this VR headset works well for. Also, 3.5k is way too much to drop on one of these things. That's a poor price point for what it does. It's very "apple" to sell a product for 3.5k and just be like "yeah, no, thats what its worth" when if you give it a few months to a year the meta quest 4 (or some other companies VR set) will be out, copying a load of the tech and cool ideas (or more likely improving on the ones people like) but will cost half as much and wont be locked down to the apple ecosystem.
Glad its working out for you, but just like you said to the other commenter, "others may have different needs and different levels of consumer spending" to which i would add, the majority of people cant justify 3.5k on one of these, let alone almost 10k on two.
Waiting for a second generation hardly lets them use the device right now for the purpose they have for it in their profession right now
I'm guessing the second generation will improve the external eye view, which isn't a factor in that user's use which is entirely virtual
Didnt he said, he uses it for the AR use case too? If not then i agree that purchase is not worth it, just buy a quest and you have it for a lot cheaper the metaverse he wants to be in.
Wise to wait a month or two, maybe, maybe not, i have a window to return them free of charge so if they didn’t work for me it would be no cost to me and I wouldn’t have to wait for them to come back in stock if they did indeed work for me, this way I don’t have to stress about it.
I agree with Marques Brownlee, they are incredible but not for everyone and they are definitely not perfect. I think the outward facing screen is ridiculous but I do get where Apple was going with it and do not fault them for trying. This type of product is a moonshot and testing different ideas to see what works in an untested product space is a risk but I am happy Apple is able to release something like this. Could it fail, most definitely, but trying new things is an important component of success.
Do not get me wrong, I am critical of this device, there are many things that either weren’t implemented in time or just do not work that well, but I also bought the first iPhone on release day too and watched as that developed into something more useable and fully featured. I expect the same with the Vision Pro and see many areas where there is room for improvement or functions that work but aren’t quite refined enough yet for the general population. This thing is incredibly niche, I do not deny that, but what gets me about the people who are overly critical of it are that they are so narrowly focused on what they want it to be and at the price they want it to be at that they are completely missing the point that this product is not for them, it is the precursor to what they are envisioning in their mind.
The price is very much what to expect with future technology, and I don’t mean it is fully realized technology of today, I mean it is high priced because it is using a lot of non-standard tech in non-standard ways. It is a prototype of what we will be seeing in 3-5 years as normal. The doubters and critics in this tread are looking at this thing as a failure because it isn’t a product for the masses right now and my point is it is a viable product but for niche markets, of which I feel I am directly targeted as the exact demographic for this and I am incredibly grateful for that.
I do not think it is silly to say it isn’t a viable product, which is what many of the naysayers in this thread who I have been discussing this with are saying, my point is that it is not a viable product for them. Apple had roughly 80,000 Vision Pro’s available for purchase on release day and I am willing to bet that of the target market that is a good mount to out out there. And if you are manufacturing something with this amount of cutting edge tech at that low of a product run then yeah, $3,500 is not a startling amount. The comments are expensive and so is the tooling and manufacturing, licensing and etc is all very expensive to get this thing to market. I am not surprised, that is just the price of niche hardware. Look at RED cameras or professional camera drones or any high tech/low volume device, it is in line and not unexpected to hit a price point in that range. What I find frustrating in all this is how little people understand the costs of what goes into making something like this and the assumption that anyone buying it is getting ripped off. It happens often with Apple products, especially their more high end lines. Sometimes the cost is way out of whack with comparable products, like those way overpriced and outdated Mac Pros, but that is because there are viable alternatives where you do not have to pay the Apple tax to get a similarly spec’s computer. The Vision Pro is a different beast because there really isn’t anything else like it.
I am well aware not everyone can afford a Vision Pro and not everyone has a use for them, but that should not be a criticism for the product, it says more about the person making the criticism than anything else. If it isn’t what you want or is too expensive for you then don’t buy it, no one is forcing this thing on anyone. I am not gloating or bragging about being able to afford buying 2. I am tired of people judging those who bought it and saying they are idiots for wasting their money. I am not an idiot and I did not waste my money on it, I very much feel I got the better end of this deal. I don’t see why I need to accept being maligned for that. Heck dude, there are a lot of people, probably many in this very thread, who have spent more than $5,000 on their gaming computer setup (monitor, computer, gfxcard, keyboard, mouse, etc) and that is more or less just for a hobby. As a business expense that will save me tons of time to review footage and watch cuts in a virtual space with interested parties from across the globe in real time, the price I paid is well worth and much more value than that money other spent on their gaming setup. As a life expense, being able to tune out the myriad distractions and sensory issues I face at every moment, to turn on noise cancellation on my AirPods and tune out the world around me in the Vision Pro so that I can focus on work tasks or just mediating, listening to music or watching a tv show, all things I find difficult to do regularly, this thing is a godsend and that too is well worth the money spent. My issue is when others tell me that I wasted my money on it. Who are they to decide how I should spend it and what I should spend it on and what value it should have to me. That is what is infuriating about some of these vehemently negative comments on here. So immature and clearly biased by other things than just the price of the Vision Pro
There will be competition that will copy parts of the Vision Pro and they will make cheaper variations of the headset and that is ok. That is what competition is all about and how the tech industry works. Products like this are what push that boundary forward faster and if it isn’t a perfect fit for everyone right now, well, that is normal for things like that and is just how these types of products develop over time.
Hey though, Mr_Dr_Oink, I just want to say, in the sea of thoughtless replies and snarky, immature discussion around this I do want to say that I appreciate your well reasoned response to me. Thank you.
Lol no one is surprised there. It's a great way to illustrate my point though. Even just 1-2 years after that first iphone released you could buy phones for far less money that had many more features. Hell even my $40 blackberry could do way more things than the first iphone did, it was basically only lacking a shiny ass touchscreen. I was more than happy to accept the trade-offs and returned my second gen iphone happily after feeling scammed. Went from a shiny toy with a half day battery life to a very useful tool for 1/5 the price whose battery lasted 2 entire days.
Maybe your extreme fanboy-ism has made you forget that the original iPhone didn't have copy and paste or apps, but it's the truth. Maybe you forget that it took the iphone like 12 years to release a phone with a decent camera, but it's true. That original iPhone was extraordinarily limited and overpriced and the same applies today. I can buy dozens of different products for less money than an iphone despite the fact that the iphone is far more locked down and limited and mostly meh in terms of features.
I might not be an apple fanboy, and i might have disagreed with the other poster who bought these two vision pro devices on it being a good idea this early, but you are going waay too hard on this. Your dislike of apple products seems misguided. All touch screen smart phones were awful back then. I remember a Sony xperia x10 that was android based but didn't even have multi-touch amongst a lot of other crap at the time.
Apple , as well as all smartphone products, have come an extremely long way since the original iPhone, and i can't realistically call modern iPhones bad phones. They just aren't and haven't been for years. Even though i think they are inferior to some android phones out there now, the margin is tiny and almost unimportant to the point that the only reason not to buy apple is that you dont have any other apple products.
You are being shitty for the purpose of making yourself feel better or above this guy. I dont take issue with them buying 2 vision devices or even buying 1 if thats what they wanted. I just thought it would be a safer bet and more worth it to wait for a few months or until the next generation personally and wanted to throw in my 2 cents.
Your link didn't and still doesn't work.
Kind of weird to play the disability card like that. Even if your link worked and I was able to read about how this helps with any disability you have, that wouldn't necessarily mean that dropping 3 times more money than it could possibly make sense to on this would be justified.
My point was that decades have gone by and basically 95% of the progress made toward decent VR has been made between 2014 and 2021. This device maybe represents another 2% bump. According to everyone but you, they're still quite clunky.
Enjoy the drastically overpriced devices, and just btw the comment about how this wasn't "that much money" turns my stomach. The privilege-o-meter exploded when you wrote that. The majority of the world's population probably would survive for at least 1.5 years on that sum of money.
As for the weird online-person "I feel sorry for people who know you" shit, I would definitely go out of my way to not interact with someone so extremely out of touch with reality that they would gladly pay 10 grand for a drip of Apple's latest buzz. I would strive for having friends who are opposite to that in every single way possible. I could be an asshole weirdo too and muse about how hard it must be for people who know you, but I'll just leave things here.
Its literally the Apple targeted customer.
And?