Close to half of American adults favor TikTok ban, Reuters/Ipsos poll shows
reuters.com
Close to half of American adults favor TikTok ban, Reuters/Ipsos poll shows::Close to half of American adults support a ban on the Chinese-owned social media app TikTok, according to a new Reuters/Ipsos survey that also asked questions about national security concerns and China.
Hmm can someone tell me if I'm just in a "republicans are hysteric about it so it must not be that bad" mindset?
It's obviously spyware to some degree, but this really seems more like a case of red-scare. I can't put my finger on exactly why, though. Makes me think I might just be reacting to their reaction.
I guess, what exactly are they afraid that China is going to do with this data? It's a missing puzzle piece that I've heard nothing coherent on besides "China gonna spy on muh datas". Like, sure, maybe if you're a government official, and I don't think bans of tiktok on government devices are stupid, but I think the nationwide ban idea is pretty dumb and baseless. So I guess my actual question is, what are they afraid of happening, exactly?
I look at it as completely missing the root problem, which is companies have way too much power to harvest and hoard data. If there were strong data ownership and protection laws in the US TikTok would either follow those rules or be fined/banned for actual cause. Washington is just mad a company not in US jurisdiction is the one doing the harvesting for once.
I don't disagree with that which is why I'm currently in the "this is red-scare" camp. If Washington (more specifically, the NSA and friends) hadn't been buying our data to peruse via the lax privacy laws we currently have, maybe they'd have a leg to stand on with any of this...
I agree, and I always want to know what TikTok is taking that facebook, twitter, etc aren't also taking
The exact same shit, it's just what continent it's stored on.
Ask yourself if the American government had the ability to talk directly to the Russian populace with no interference from their government, what might they say/do/cause to happen.
That's what Tiktok is, and that's what a lot of the fear is about. It's know that all Chinese companies have heavy connections to the government, so if they wanted to do something they could.
Not even saying Tiktok is that bad, mostly just saying Americans, especially the government is a bunch of fucking hypocrites about this shit.
Honestly, keep it to "If you don't like it don't use it" and leave it at that. The idea of the government picking what social network people are allowed on seems foolish, and I imagine many people will side load the app (At least on Android) if it's officially banned.
Unfortunately I literally can't imagine anything convincing coming out of the US's mouth given that case. It's not like we can Manchurian candidate sleeper cells in Russia using our influence, and I'd argue China also has similar limitations.
The worst I can imagine is "us bad" with a lot of easily disprovable half truths that only stand for idiots who believe whatever tiktok gives them. And if the politicians who support this ban are arguing that most Americans are like that, then they'd better be pushing for better education or else they are also nefarious (because why else would they want people to be susceptible to propaganda, but not XYZ's propaganda?)
I guess maybe my issue now is that it almost seems that republicans are trying to do their own propaganda machine, but are incensed that China might be stealing morons who are, as another commenter put it, ripe for radicalization. But that doesn't seem right because I'd be surprised if they didn't also have a bunch of outreach shit through tiktok.... Idk, this is already delving into conspiracy theory territory so I'm gonna just stop myself here.
But all in all, I totally agree with your last paragraph, especially "if you don't like it, then don't use it".
They don't need to be particularly convincing points, their targets are teenagers. They just need to be at a frequency that their viewer accepts them to be the 'common' point of view.
Facebook is paying for it
Well I mean, that does make sense. I still believe tiktok [https://youtu.be/Ti8v4eL8oIE](really is a bit of spyware) (sorry for the longish YouTube video) but that could definitely be a contributing factor to this case
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/Ti8v4eL8oIE
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
google is also spyware.. so is facebook while we're at it and literally ANY OTHER APP YOU PUT ON YOUR PHONE. Ever notice how every single thing has an app? It's not to make it easy for you to buy stuff from them, it's so they can utilize your data to make them more money.
I might be a little paranoid here so feel free to lmk, but a few uses for the data gathered by a foreign government/keeping people addicted:
The most obvious: Propaganda to push people to distrust their government
The less reasonable but still possible: Time wasting, people spend less time trying new things due to the lack of instant gratification, decreasing productivity/capability of the users. We've seen China begin to address this domestically with new laws limiting usage, what the US would consider overreach (unless it effects the bottom line perhaps?)
The downright unreasonable: Profile building using accounts as a digital fingerprint to determine military capability, it's amazing what people will advertise about themselves online, TikTok occasionally tells people what illness (mental or physical) before even they are formally diagnosed. Imagine leveraging that information in a 'unethical' way, the possibilities are endless.
I think the paranoia is what I was looking for, so thank you for delivering!
For the most obvious: idk, I think people should generally have a healthy distrust of those in government positions. Maybe ideally not, but in reality, it's necessary to not be taken advantage of by any manner of power hungry people. If tiktok half truths inspire someone to start actually looking at what xyz government has done, then that's a win in my book. If they just eat the half truths as is straight from tiktok, that's when there's a problem, but that's what my "why don't they educate people on how to spot propaganda" is to address.
Less reasonable: I think people should be allowed to do what they want to do long as it doesn't infringe on the health and safety of another. I guess you can split hairs about it decreasing health due to people working out less or something like that, but I don't think that's a good enough reason for government action.
Unreasonable: this actually seems the most reasonable to me, believe it or not. Military people posting the wrong thing at the wrong time from even a personal account can and has had bad effects on security before. That's why I would support a ban of any spyware-like app on government devices and on military bases (this was originally only support for a ban on gov devices, but I think if we're thinking about security, banning it in places where leaks may cost lives makes sense)
As for the endless possibilities of leveraging mental illness knowledge of a user, I'm afraid I can't imagine what one could do. The only time I can imagine that would really matter is if China takes over the US and goes full genocide on the population. I think the world would go down in nuclear flames before that would happen though...
If the app was literally called "CCP Government Monitor and Sensor Node" would you say the same thing about people being free to use it how they please? At the very least you would recommend any phone with it installed be banned from any government location or strategic location and people who use it scrutinized. As it currently stands, people don't believe that's what it is because they like it.
If you accept what the government is trying to communicate about it, the lines around individual freedom and the freedom to endanger others becomes pretty clear. You have the freedoms to work with explosives but you have no right to take a bomb on a military base. It is the same with data models. Having worked in machine learning and defense, I'm inclined to believe it. I acknowledge that I'm biased here but take my opinion for what it's worth.
I would say malicious malware shouldn't be sold on the app store and that anyone who hosts it should suffer whatever fallout it comes with (not the end users, the apk providers). However, due to the US being The Way That It Is™, we don't actually have any recourse like that for providers of malware. As for spyware.... I guess it probably should be handled like malware too. Eh you got me lol
I've said a couple different places in this thread I support a ban of tiktok on government phones and in at least one other place I support a ban of it on military bases, but my main issue was that I couldn't figure out how it could be used for nefarious purposes outside of government phones or areas.
As for "you have the right to work with the data models, but not remove the data from US soil", that's a new one, I'll have to think about that some more. Good point though, I think.
They could just ban the manner of data collection that TikTok does, but that would affect all the US social media apps too.
I think it’s bad because of how addictive it is
I had it for two days and I spent over 36 hours on the app.
Im sure some people are less affected by it than I was, but from my perspective, it’s too dangerous to let live.
Also I like the idea of getting rid of dangerous things and I don’t believe in free speech absolutism; I think we take that idea too far
So that justifies the federal government stepping in to save you from yourself? Should we have a War on Algorithms next? War on drugs has been going swimmingly.
Yes I think we should
It’s not just me, there are tons of people who are susceptible to schemes like social media etc. it’s why we don’t let kids smoke and they shouldn’t vape nicotine either. It’s why we regulate gambling, and why we should regulate sugary drinks too.
We didn’t evolve for a world with instant satisfaction, and we can’t cope with it.
To be clear, we don't ban children from consuming these products. We ban the sale of nicotine products to children. By anyone. The federal government didn't come in and ban Marlboro.
Regulations creating rules of behavior that apply to all actors. Not just making a law saying people aren't allowed inside the Bellagio.
The difference is super important. Laws need to be applied equally.
I can't disagree with an opinion like that coupled with an anecdote like that.
I disagree that it's the federal government who should be stepping in to limit screen time though.
In fact, tiktok is the only app I've seen that has a "why don't you go touch grass" timer, so in that regard, it's got less nefarious design patterns than, say, Facebook.
I don't think I understand what you mean by dangerous in this context, honestly. When I think danger, I think of bodily harm. What does your definition of dangerous entail when it comes to social media apps that physically can't cause harm? Is my understanding of danger too simplistic?
This isn't about China having the data...it's about the US not being able to harvest the data.
I could care less if China knows about my kinks or what my favorite pizza is...but depending on how the wind blows over the next decade, I really do care if the US knows about my political leanings.
Hmm... I hadn't thought about it like that, that actually makes it make sense in a roundabout way. I'll keep that one in the back of my head for now...
Cool, can we ban all the American apps that do all the same spying too? Because otherwise this is just whining that China is stealing our shtick.
We need to ban talk radio and Fox News and OAN, too.
I can't believe so many people are cool with the federal government censuring specific platforms. It's one thing if we wanted to ban an action through law (e.g. data harvesting or shipping it overseas) but it's another to silence a specific piece of software.
Imagine if Congress passed a bill saying Steve can't recommend movies to his friends anymore.
Being worried about CCP controlled apps is a sensible concern. Banning a single app (because Mark Zuckerberg is upset that it’s stealing his customers) is not a helpful solution.
I'm not saying that's not concerning (it's why I won't use it). I think what they can do with widespread analytics and pseudonymous data collection is... potentially impactful in ways we can't foresee.
But the Bill of Rights does not only apply to US citizens. And targeted bans are just a tool of government censorship that I'd rather not see wielded by politicians. I think the only reason it's targeted is because they either don't have evidence of the negative behavior or they're unwilling to ban the it because it would impact domestic platforms.
The bill of rights isn't relevant here. TikTok is not a person foreign or domestic (citizens united not withstanding).
This would be hardly any different from the thousands of import bans the US has used over the years. It's just an app instead of a physical good.
Import bans are similarly terrible, in the vast majority of cases.
We put import restrictions on groups of things. We ban cheese from France. We don't ban cheese specifically from Jacques Cheese Emporium in Lyon but all other French cheese is okay.
Hey, I'm okay with banning the import of all Chinese social media apps if you are 🙂
If Steve is a genocidal authoritarian asshole who, in the process of recommending movies, plants listening devices around your home, GPS trackers in your clothing and keyloggers on your computer while browsing through your underwear drawer and file cabinets, I don't think he's very good company. Steve might start by showing you Airplane! and Blazing Saddles but once you're drawn in by the entertainment, he'll sit you down for the Wolf Warrior movies, Amazing China and The Battle at Lake Changjin.
Ban Steve, he can keep pushing his agenda on his own family back home. That's still not an ideal situation but this at least is reasonably within our rights and capabilities.
But in that case, it would be a far better option to ban anyone from placing keyloggers on your computer and GPS trackers in your clothing, because that not only stops Steve from doing it, but also Steve's cousin Alex, and anyone else who would want to do so.
Absolutely, we should do that too.
I had never heard of Wolf Warrior, looks sick! Thanks!
If the bill was purely a tictok ban that would be questionable enough. But the bill is SO MUCH MORE THAN THAT. Also, every app in America does the same shit. Just because they are capitalist America and not communist China doesn't make it better. Unless of course, you are a politician that benefits monetarily if the American company prevails.
Believe me, banning TikTok is not the solution.
TikTok is banned here since long time, but people are doing same shit, just on Instagram Reels and YouTube Shorts.
20% owned by China, 60% owned by global investors and 20% by private. Headquarters in Singapore and LA. I think tiktok is dumb as shit and never use it but there's a Chinese company called tencent that owns 97% of riot games. So let's ban league of legends cause dota 2 is better anyways.
Ban them both, make HoTS great again.
again? 🤨
6.5/10
It's just so sad that Bli$$ard shafted the game so hard. It had so much promise. Not the same repetitive shit like in League, actual variety with different maps and game modes and stuff. Truly one-of-a-kind game.
And almost half of Americans favor banning the free speech of the opposing view points (Which ever party they aren't). So this is not a shock.
In other news, close to 100% of American adults are over the age of the target user group for TikTok.
Obviously, favoring a ban is a more political stance than just not using it yourself, but it's still easy to call for bans, if you wouldn't be affected.
I'm 43 and regularly use TikTok. I've learned about soap making, trans rights, d&d, and a million other things. It's a great platform.
If you're on TikTok and just seeing teenage girls dancing, it's because you want to see that. Their algorithm is no joke.
How about we pass a goddamn federal-level privacy law in this country?
Oh... I see...
You say it's too hard to reconcile privacy laws between 50 states? Hmm, yes. Sounds impossible for a global superpower. Let's just get back to banning things. Cool!
Modernized privacy law alone wouldn't be enough. The danger from social media apps (not just TikTok) is algorithmically swaying public opinion. It's an ultra-refined form of propaganda.
Taking the GDPR as an example, a modern and widely recognized privacy law, there is virtually no protection from manipulation of your news feed. GDPR is primarily worried about gathering and resale of personal information to data brokers. Within a service, it's virtually guaranteed to obtain consent from people to gain full access to the site.
How about we do neither thing, and continue to have cool shit.
How is standardizing privacy law incompatible with cool shit?
"privacy law" is generally a misnomer.
Your comments are a misnomer if you think that.
Because the situation is so much deeper than just "banning TikTok" but rather
I don't know what in the world my officemate would do with herself if she couldn't watch TikTok all day. Besides her actual fucking work for a change, that is.
I am so goddamn sick of hearing the same "hehe hehe" and the same fake-sounding scream-laugh that those videos all use for backgrounds/overlays that I am ready to shove an ice pick in my ears. Ban this garbage, please!
Though I agree that it should be banned. It will probably live on as youtube shorts or instagram reels or whatever the fuck it's called.
Yeah the only proper solution is using fucking headphones around people. Like, some people really have no manners. If you're gonna listen to that shit on your phone speakers might as well get a proper bluetooth speaker and entertain the entire city with that brainrot.
Close to half isn't a majority.
Here we go again.
These articles are like catnip.
People get worked up about something that isn’t going to happen.
But… but… there was an IPSOS poll!
lol straight up troll bait. Also funny cause it's probably people who "believe in freedom and the constitution" who voted in that dumb poll. Somehow we need a nanny state to take over control of the internet.. FREEDOOOOMMMM
troll shit.. Probably half the voters were trolls too
I’ll bet close to half of the people in favor of a ban don’t even really know what it is.
My largest issue with this whole article is the source of data. It is completely based on a survey taken on their own site. This means that they're just feeding the readers their own preferences back to them.
I have a few feelings about it. First, I’m an average middle-aged middle-class straight white cisgendered male and the TikTok algorithm feeds me tons of stuff that is very pro feminism, pro trans rights, anti racist, pro labor. In a very touching and uplifting way a lot of times, actually. I’m a boring person but VERY passionate about these socially liberal issues and it gives me what I want and need to feel like a force of good, keep up with social issues, stay involved in some way feel passionate. My TikTok feed is woke as shit and good for me. I simply don’t see this on Facebook, YouTube and all the rest. I don’t see it. Of course everyone’s algorithm is different…
So maybe TikTok uses my attention for evil…data harvesting, influencing, hacking…I don’t know. I don’t trust china any more or less than most people. But how much do we trust meta, Google, Apple, Microsoft etc? I don’t particularly.
I may just be naive…but I do see a lot of good things that TikTok does, as dumb as it sounds.
Many friends have asked me the same thing. My response is, I don't trust American companies either. I trust it if it's open source and audited like all the security and privacy tools I use. Reddit was one of the last apps I had that wasn't open source. Now I'm completely degoogled and use Lemmy as social media and a place to find information.
People will come at me with "privacy is dead and impossible" or "well you're racist because you don't like Tik Tok because it's Chinese, you use Google and Microsoft ". Nope, I use Linux and a used degoogled Pixel. I went out of my way to avoid their crap.
If you want some resources I really like Mental Outlaw, Techlore, The channels Hated One, The New Oil, privacyguides, privacytools, and all the Lemmy privacy and degoogle communities.
But imagine if it weren't.
Weren’t what?
This is the best summary I could come up with:
WASHINGTON, Aug 16 (Reuters) - Close to half of American adults support a ban on the Chinese-owned social media app TikTok, according to a new Reuters/Ipsos survey that also asked questions about national security concerns and China.
The survey also revealed deep worries among Americans about China's global influence at a time when U.S.-China relations have fallen to their lowest point in decades.
FBI Director Christopher Wray said in March that China's government could use TikTok to control software on millions of devices and drive narratives to divide Americans, adding that the app "screams" of national security concerns.
Other top U.S. intelligence officials, including CIA Director William Burns, also have said TikTok poses a threat.
Former President Donald Trump in 2020 sought to bar new downloads of TikTok but a series of court decisions blocked the ban from taking effect.
Florida governor and presidential candidate Ron DeSantis has said he favors some form of national ban on the app.
I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Their poll must favor boomers.
Zoomer here, tiktok should be banned.
Do you favor other platforms over it or think they should all go?
It's already banned in all Federal facilities due to the fact that it's an application with access to phone's sensor hardware and it sends data to China, and the company's corporate operations are overseen (and potentially directed) by the CCP
Gotta pump those numbers up
Not a chance you replicate this number in a larger group that's not their own poll. I think there are very much age and demographic issues.