Why is the US still sending an endless supply of arms to Israel without conditions?
theguardian.com
The law ( the Leahy Law) requires that the US vet any foreign military receiving US arms. However, that doesn’t happen with Israel
The law ( the Leahy Law) requires that the US vet any foreign military receiving US arms. However, that doesn’t happen with Israel
I think a lot of U.S. politicians and legacy media outlets were genuinely caught off-guard by the backlash. Prior to the Netanyahu era, support for Israel in the U.S. was basically non-controversial. But he fucked that up just like he fucks up everything else.
Netanyahu has been an unmitigated disaster in every conceivable way, for a long time. The Israeli people really need to kick him to the curb.
I mean, at this point he's squandering good will and sympathy generated for Israel after a terrorist group specifically targeted civilians for rape, torture, and murder. It feels like something that should be impossible - I mean, it's not like anyone sane would side with freaking Hamas.
If you're opposed to Hamas, it should be trivially easy to maintain the moral and political high ground over them. Yet he's somehow failing even that.
Cripes, what a clusterfuck.
I keep reposting this one quote: “The bar to clear was on the ground and y’all brought shovels.”
Look into his dad and his grandpa, it has a history
Shrug, the US elected Trump and are acting like they want to do it again...
Oh good, whataboutism always takes a conversation to interesting places, said no one, ever.
No one is defending the United States. People are saying the nexus of U.S. corruption and Israeli corruption is proving itself to be a plague on humanity.
It's less the backlash and more the attacks on Jews that are surprising.
The US has always had a small, vocal minority that hates Israel.
Yeah, and the “vocal minority” gained strength when Netanyahu spoke before a joint session of Congress and insulted everyone to the left of Mussolini. And then the 2014 Gaza War was disproportionate and all over social media. And then Netanyahu named a fucking settlement after Trump, America’s worst president since Andrew Johnson. And now he’s razing Gaza and belongs at The Hague.
I didn’t even think about the whole, entire Levant much prior to that shit. I have no connection to the wider Mideast and frankly, still don’t think it’s interesting. I like nature more than religion so there’s nothing in Jerusalem for me. (Tel Aviv sounds nicer.) But now I’m like, “Please stop bombing civilians using the weapons I apparently have to pay for. For some reason? Is Israel strategically important? Why?”
And Likud-ass people are accusing me of hating Israel. I didn’t have an opinion but now I do. Fuck all religious nationalists with a broomstick no one has sanded down.
Blame Netty
Yes this is a good example of the vocal minority
Cat’s out the bag, dog. Shouldn’t have had world’s most incompetent prime minister.
Israel has more influence over American foreign policy than American citizens.
At this point I do believe that US government are owned by Isreal. Influence is an understatement of US response to anything Isreal related.
Trump literally move the US embassy putting US citzen at risk for no valuable reason.
The CIA staged a coup in Iran in 1953 at the behest of Britain/British Petroleum when the newly elected PM decided to nationalize the oil fields. Iran remains Israel's greatest geopolitical foe, because of Israel's ties to the West.
The Suez Canal, an originally French/British colonial venture, which carries an absurd amount of cargo from former British colonies into the Mediterranean, was the cause of the Six Day War; not to mention there's a plan for a new canal through Israel to avoid all the nasty geopolitical issues the Suez Canal raises.
The US has a network of Middle Eastern allies and enemies and meddles in the affairs of every middle eastern nation because they've got all that sweet light crude we love so much.
Do you think, maybe, that the US's (and more broadly the West's) objectives in the region outweigh, possibly, whatever "influence" Israel has over our politics?
Try to run for office without the support of the Israel lobby... there goes your PAC money. Obama ran with Biden as a nod to the Israel lobby because Biden was their darling and Obama was known to attend pro-Palestine conferences.
Very true because money speaks volumes and people don't VOTE, and many of those who do have no understanding of how to recognize real balanced news so they just go with the loudest, most agenda driven sources.
The US is a global empire built on oil, which makes Israel (an ideologically similar nation in the middle of the largest oil producing region on earth) a natural partner. Influence doesn't really have anything to do with it.
Yes that's how foreign policy work?
The Jews own all the media outlets and control the judiciary and the police. That's why.
No. Just no. Go home and rethink that.
Hey I found one in the wild, neat!
Is that you, Adolf?
Because it turns turns billions in public funds into billions in private profits.
The fact that those profits come at the expense of children's lives doesn't worry the oil and gas industries, so why would it worry weapons manufacturers?
They could get the same effect by arming Ukraine without looking like a bunch of assholes
Unfortunately, that's not how greed works. They'll never say "no thanks, we've made enough profit from Ukraine".
No one's suggesting they say that
I am. Would be hella refreshing for these arms dealers to grow a conscience, even if just a tiny one.
Don't ask that question, it's anti-Semitic.
A sad and horrifying reality. The biggest success of Zionism is that it has hidden itself behind antisemitism.
The US is an Israeli puppet state.
You can credibldy argue that Israel has an outsized influence of US foreign policy, but to call the US an "Israeli puppet state" is such a hyperbolic exaggeration that it sounds less like a valid criticism and more like the old "Jews control the world" antisemitic hate speech.
The US has far more influence on Israel than vice versa
Its hard to tell sometimes whether somebody is using phrasing like that naively or as a dog whistle (which is why its an effective dog whistle). The reality is Israel plays a critical role in maintaining US empire and public image and Netanyahu is cashing in those in for a racist child-killing spree.
Agreed. The USA is simply too powerful to ever become anyone's lapdog, they're a force unto themselves
Obviously the US government is sending an endless supply of arms to Israel without conditions because doing so serves its purposes.
The question that you need to ask is how it serves its purposes - how is it that the US government benefits by enabling Israel's Palestinian genocide.
My theory, also supported by other US government actions in the Middle East (such as the Iraq war) is that the US government's overall goal in the Middle East is destabilization.
And that stands to reason, since the Middle East's wealth administered by stable and progressive governments rather than reactionary autocracies could he a threat to western hegemony.
Or more simply, a Middle East consumed by strife can't be stable, and thus can't invest sufficient time and resources into being a serious player on the world stage, since too much of its time and resources is diverted into dealing with internal strife, or pissed away by the dysfunctional governments that have come to power as a result of of the strife.
And Israel, and specifically the overt violence and oppression and now genocide failing to hide behind a shabby mask of "defense" and "security" in which Israel continues to engage, is key to that strife.
If you look at US foreign policy in the Middle East through that lens - asking yourself, at every turn, how does this accord with the presumption that the broad goal of the US government in the Middle East is destabilization, then a lot of things that don't make sense otherwise suddenly do.
The exact opposite is the actual reason the US supports Israel.
This is correct. I was down with that post until this same sentence. Dude started off on the right path and then just went 180 in the wrong direction.
Israel is the sole democracy in the middle east, defined as a flawed democracy (same as America) by political science.
If we stopped supplying it with weapons and might, it would be overrun by Iran and the Israeli people would be killed to the last. Iran will never stop arming and funding terrorism against Israel. Any apparent respect Iran shows to Israel's borders or legitimacy is an act, a pretext of peace, an armistice really, until they wage total war against Israel. Iranians man, don't let the world have anything nice. It is not in America's national interest to let the only democracy in the region fall, and lose any hope for human rights in the middleeast.
Agreed. Though I don't demonize Iran to the same extent they're clearly enablers of a lot of crap vs USA simply selling guns to an actual government that has a head of state etc
Oh, you sweet summer child.
I'm not one for conspiracy theories, sorry.
Yep. You don't need a fancy graduate degree in IR to know this. US policy in the Middle East has always been a pretty open book. The fact that it's often been disastrous isn't evidence of some vast conspiracy to keep the Arab world down. To the contrary, it's evidence of deep stupidity, hubris, arrogance and wilful ignorance on the part of US leadership. Never attribute to malice that which can more easily be attributed to stupidity.
Fuck Israel. I say this as a Jew so color me antisemitic, the US Congress 🖤
You're not antisemitic, you're just stupid.
When the next Holocaust happens (we can see the world persecuting Jews in these very months...), and Israel will be the only one to save you, turn them down, because you obviously hate them so much.
Because our government is controlled by the AIPAC lobby.
Money
About 500 billion dollars worth of oil and gas is the answer.
Note the date
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-20/ty-article/.premium/u-s-to-push-israel-to-allow-gaza-offshore-gas-reserves-to-revitalize-palestinian-economy/0000018b-ed90-ddc3-afdb-fdd1ff250000
You read "help" I read "colonialist looting". Guess only time will tell
Pasting from my reply elsewhere in the thread
The main issue is as soon as the Genocide started all talk of aid and economy building went out the window.
...
The US just wants access to the gas reserves, they don't care who controls it, as long as they'll be aligned with the petro dollar.
Israel will control the reserves after the genocide is over, that's the point. Israel wants access to that revenue stream and bombing Palestinians is a really reliable way to ensure that.
Lol people on here talking about the US wanting to genocide Palestinians and in the meantime were actively working to build them an economy for after the war
The main issue is as soon as the Genocide started all talk of aid and economy building went out the window.
Read the article with a critical eye.
The US just wants access to the gas reserves, they don't care who controls it, as long as they'll be aligned with the petro dollar.
Israel will control the reserves after the genocide is over, that's the point. Israel wants access to that revenue stream and bombing Palestinians is a really reliable way to ensure that.
The US produces more oil than OPEC
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/record-us-oil-output-challenges-saudi-mastery-kemp-2023-12-04/
But fossil fuels are a finite non-renewable resource. The more they extract the less they have left, and I doubt they are gonna wait untill it runs out to start looking for other sources.
I'm sure they will have a team assess the ROI
To fuel the next crisis, obviously.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
There is a rare debate taking place in mainstream foreign policy circles, including among congressional Democrats, about whether the United States should condition its military support for Israel in light of the massive civilian casualties it has caused in Gaza.
According to a recent report in the Israeli media, however, the Biden administration has begun doing exactly that – putting conditions on continued US support for Israel’s war on Gaza.
“[It] would be too resource-intensive – and that’s fair to some extent – to essentially vet the entire Israeli security apparatus for gross violations of human rights,” Josh Paul, a former senior state department official responsible for foreign arms transfers, explained on The Lawfare Podcast last week.
“The department has never concluded that a gross violation of human rights occurred, despite what I would say is incredibly credible and convincing evidence to the contrary,” Paul added.
The Leahy Law is just one of many safeguards meant to stop foreign governments from using American weapons to commit human rights violations and war crimes.
Just two months before the Hamas attacks that led to this brutal round of fighting, the state department instructed embassies worldwide to monitor and report all incidents of harm to civilians involving American-made arms.
The original article contains 848 words, the summary contains 206 words. Saved 76%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
It's so credible I don't believe it.
This sounds like a job for..
bEcAuSe tHeY'rE a dEmOcRaCy iN tHe miDdLe eAsT
All politics is local.
This isn't about Israel. It's about the coming elections.
Biden is fully owned and controlled by AIPAC. Netanyahu controls America. He boasted about it before he's proven it in a months time. Genocide Joe is as much of a foreign agent as Agent Orange
You can vote for Russia and israel.... Or actually vote third party and stop this madness.
It's cute that you think voting for a 3rd party does anything beyond setting your vote on fire.
You're voting and are complicit in Genocide if you don't though.
I mean it would stop this particular madness... In a Monkey's Paw kind of way where we now instead have to deal with the madness of Trump trying to become a dictator and all the harm that entails.
Israel is surrounded by countries that want them dead for being
jewishnot Arab.And they're already more powerful than all of them put together.
Only because of their arsenal of tactical nuclear weapons. Do you want them to feel like they have to use them?
Sounds like a shit place to be.
How big is Israel? Why are Israelis desperate to stay in an area surrounded by "countries who want them dead?"
Do you think US aid to Israel could be better spent relocating Israelis to rural areas in the US where they can be safe and revitalize the local economies?
Israelis aren't going anywhere, they believe that the land itself is holy and belongs ONLY TO THEM AS THE TRUE GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE.
This of course is exactly what the Arabs believe, and why there'll never be peace between the two groups.
Yep.
Many people who are not Jewish live in Israel and don't have any issues. The same can not be said for non Muslims in any of their neighbours.
Irrelevant to the topic.
Should we relocate all Ukrainians? Also pretty much everyone has tried to wipe them out at one time or another. The number of Israelis fleeing genocide in the middle east is actually much more than the number that come from Europe. It's the ancestral home of the Jewish people. Where do you propose relocating the majority of Israel's population?
The modern state of Israel was planted due to Germany’s quite recent atrocities, so that seems like the best place find land in a fair world.
I would be 1000% in favor of dedicating funds to relocate Ukrainians to rural parts of the US.
How big is Israel's population? (does startpage search).
Hmm. Looks like the entire population of Israel is <=10 million. The United States has plenty of space for them! For example, the entire population of Wyoming is <1 million, while the entire population of Greater Houston is >7 million!
Look, I get it. This is a pipe dream. It will never happen. The entire point of the Zionist movement is that Jews are entitled to live in the land of Israel. It is their birthright. Chosen by god. They won't concede and they have no reason to.
You want to relocate 11 m people from the middle east to Wyoming? I'm sure that will go smoothly.
Seems like the Guardian is all kerpluxed that US is using diplomacy behind closed doors rather than announce everything to the world. Tuff stuff.
How has that diplomacy worked out the past 80 years?
Sometimes? Very well.
In this case? It's clearly not.
Freed hostages would disagree.
17,177 Palestinians would have something to say if they still could.
Which is a meaningless point in the conversation, but I sure you feel better.
Just because you don’t like inconvenient facts getting in the way of your argument doesn’t make them meaningless.
It is meaningless to the point. That's all you can do. Spit out some shit you heard on the street and hope it sounds important.
With a blip during Trump fairly well
hey now, bootlicking is a perfectly valid form of diplomacy
Did you read the article?
Making secretive arms deals in order to "jump over" the regulations, protocols and overall legislation meant to enforce transparency and accountability over this specific type of bussiness is not diplomacy, Its corruption
The story doesn't talk about arms deals. It only tells about support . I don't know what you consider secretive, but if you know about it my guess is it is not.
Lol
Tell me you didnt read the article without telling me you didnt read the article.
I'll give you a hint, look at the title. The whole fucking article is about the US supplying weapons to Israel without following US legislation.
Oh so assertive...
Why is that diplomacy taking two months when Reagan stopped the bombing of West Beirut with a phone call?
Reagan retreated from Lebanon.