Dunno. But fascism is what happens after it succeeds.
Fascism. It’s fascism.
Economic and social collapse dislocates a lot of people. It dislocates people who think they shouldn’t be dislocated, because they played by the rules. They go to church, they had a job, they’re patriotic to their best understanding of the word.
Then, in their minds, something must have changed. It might be the immigrants, or the Jews, or the gays, or weirdly drag queens for some reason this time around. Then someone comes along who validates them as victims and promises a return to their historical glory days.
The last paroxysm is the election or ascendency of a far right populist who elevates that narrative. They promise to restore national pride and return to traditional values, and to return the nation to its roots which had made it strong and put them on top.
It’s happened multiple times around the world, and there are a lot of books and articles on how and why it happens.
Fascism is a characteristic of capitalist economies - it cannot exist without capitalism.
So no.
Yeas, in the sense that fascism is borne in capitalism, but it's also marks the end of capitalism and what comes after.
but it’s also marks the end of capitalism and what comes after.
No, it doesn't. Fascism poses no threat to capitalism and never has - that's the whole reason capitalists eagerly fund fascists into power. Some fascists might dislike capitalism - such as Franco, for instance - but that doesn't mean fascism can exist without it in any way, shape or form.
Oh you got me wrong, of course fascism is created to serve capitalists, but after the fascist power grab, they don't need to have the theatre of freedom™ and markets anymore.
A square is a rectangle but not all rectangles are squares.
Just say authoritarianism. Fascism has happened exactly once in modern history. Words have meaning and you don't get to assign values to them because one helps your political motive better than the other.
Fascism has happened exactly once in modern history.
Are you putting the fascist regimes of Germany, Italy and Spain into one basket? Also the current regime in Russia?
Fascism has happened exactly once in modern history.
Blatantly false.
Fascism =/= Nazism =/= Francoism.
See:
a square is a rectangle but not all rectangles are squares.
Nazism isn't fascism is quite the take. I can't tell if you're a troll or just a pedant who goes about being pedantic wrong.
I'm leaning into the right of this meme more and more with every passing day
I'm in this image and I dont like it.
The dystopian cyberpunk future William Gibson tried to warn us about.
Spoiler: We're already living in it.
"The future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed."
The sky the color of a TV tuned to a dead channel has never looked prettier though...
It doesn't fail. It succeeds horribly.
It also fails, though. It's unsustainable, Capitalists sew the seeds of their own downfall. They just hope they enjoy the ride and pass the buck off to someone else.
If there isn't a large Socialist coalition to combat fascism, then fascism will rise before collapsing even harder. If there is a large Socialist coalition, and that coalition successfully combats the fascist powers, then some form of Socialism will likely replace it, and humanity can continue progressing instead of regressing.
After capitalism,
All firms should be democratic worker coops. The legal system would recognize the inalienable right to workers' control.
Land and natural resources should be collectively owned with revenue from private use of this collective property going out as a UBI. The atmosphere is included and any carbon fees are included.
Pools of collectivized capital democratically controlled by workers in member worker coops. Each worker coop leases all its capital from the pool
That would be nice. It's probably going to be war though.
I remember reading a Guardian article in which it discussed the requirements of any market to either evolve or die based on the circumstances it finds itself in.
It highlighted that because Communism could not adapt quickly enough to its circumstances that it failed - the centrally governing authority were not able to efficiently or effectively govern the market at the time. Leading to multiple issues.
I would like to see the evolution of Capitalism. That we do not view everything only through an economic lens- there needs to be environmental, societal and political factors which must also be taken into account.
That and personal accountability and responsibility for business practices. For example you can pollute that waterway but we will take all your profits and you go to jail for 30years
Capitalism evolves into either Socialism or fascism, so we should push for Socialism.
I think this is the ideal. Capitalism is reigned in and regulated, consumers are encouraged to buy more expensive products in exchange for better conditions for the associated workers and the planet, labor unions surge, and billionaires are taxed out of existence.
techno feudalism
Post scarcity anarchism. I suggest you read Walkaway by Cory Doctorow. It made me into a (re)believer.
Feel free to pirate the book. Mr. Doctorow doesn't mind. He walks the walk.
Neo-feudalism, then the thinning of the herd once high levels of automation are achieved.
Population decreases are already happening in modernized, wealthy countries, no need to do anything there. The poorer ones will end up starving as the climate collapses, so that's basically taken care of too. Population collapse isn't always good, though, somebody has to buy the goods and services.
Reading the comments here reminds me of that Slavoj Žižek/ Fredric Jameson quote:
It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.
The Soviet Union had race tracks and casinos.
People are always going to want something for nothing.
Why it's so hard to imagine life after capitalism...
Depends on the place. A cycle of failures is a feature of capitalism, it's the opportunity for the next future failure to rise up and take charge. For great profit.
Lots of power struggles until one faction comes out on top (this includes subjugation and the equivalent of puppet states) or, less likely, those involved reach an agreement of coexistence.
Sometimes I think that humanity not breaking up into smaller groups after they passed a size of ~200 was a serious mistake.
Corporate feudalism was a fun concept I played with in high school, but now that I'm older, I think I was just approaching the concepts of a lot of modern cyberpunk settings portrayed.
We return to bigger army diplomacy.
Jk, we never left that system.
Neo-stoneage.
Anarchy, of the Mad Max variety because when capitalism finally fails, it's gonna be because they completely destroyed the fucking world.
"Fail" or "Succeed" is based on your perspective.
Capitalism won't fail. It's a great success to the rich who get richer by manipulating it.
Capitalism is a success, just not for us or anyone we know.
The 1% don't give a shit about that. If they did it wouldn't be an issue in the first place.
Society fragments into a bunch of smaller communities. Some will be relatively nice, some very much will not
Capitalism doesn't "fail" per se. Capitalism is actually the default. All other systems require some kind of active intervention and oversight.
Capitalism simply "wins" due to being the best at making the most money. Whether that actually benefits humanity is a crapshoot.
Countries can set up some kind of socialist system, but things will "default" back to capitalism when corruption and/or stupidity inevitably happen.
If pop culture is to be believed, the country boys will go back to hunting and farming. At least until the diesel runs out. They'll fight off the free loading hoards from the city looking for food until the ammunition runs out.
I love the dichotomy of hope and despair in this comment due to the false implication that they believe themselves to be bulletproof.
That's the premise of modern country music.
Lemmyreddit finds a new political/economic system to constantly be bitter at.
Sadly , the country supports gun ownership strongly. It is probably going to be a black summer deal.
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !fedonomy@lemm.ee
I think the primary cases in which capitalism will fall out of dominance, will be when it empowers workers too much that they gain the ability too sieze and distribute the means of production. When the state is empowered too much and control of capital is siezed. When communities have too much self relience or capacity to accept hardships. When automation makes manual intervention by capitalist too costly to compete with.
Or we get corporations so large they become defacto states, and whether they are truely capitalist will be depend on what shapes those structures take.
Not sure which one will dominate though. Socialism, authoritarinsm, distrubtionism, singularity, or some other one that I'm just not aware of yet. It maybe some hybrid, dual or tri power structure too, undoubtedly there will be pockets of all of them.
If capitalism fails.
It will fail, inevitably. It's unsustainable.
Yeah yeah yeah... Capitalism bad, m'kay ?
I only see it becoming stronger and stronger with the growth of huge companies like Google Amazon, apple, etc. That are already beyond national level.
As megacorporations swell, and disparity rises, so too does exploitation. Disparity rising is not a good thing. This leads to instability and collapse.
It'd been unsustainable for thousands of years, and yet here we are.
Capitalism is only a few hundred years old, what do you think we are talking about?
Commerce isn’t capitalism. Capitalism began with the Dutch East India Company.
Dunno. But fascism is what happens after it succeeds.
Fascism. It’s fascism.
Economic and social collapse dislocates a lot of people. It dislocates people who think they shouldn’t be dislocated, because they played by the rules. They go to church, they had a job, they’re patriotic to their best understanding of the word.
Then, in their minds, something must have changed. It might be the immigrants, or the Jews, or the gays, or weirdly drag queens for some reason this time around. Then someone comes along who validates them as victims and promises a return to their historical glory days.
The last paroxysm is the election or ascendency of a far right populist who elevates that narrative. They promise to restore national pride and return to traditional values, and to return the nation to its roots which had made it strong and put them on top.
It’s happened multiple times around the world, and there are a lot of books and articles on how and why it happens.
Fascism is a characteristic of capitalist economies - it cannot exist without capitalism.
So no.
Yeas, in the sense that fascism is borne in capitalism, but it's also marks the end of capitalism and what comes after.
No, it doesn't. Fascism poses no threat to capitalism and never has - that's the whole reason capitalists eagerly fund fascists into power. Some fascists might dislike capitalism - such as Franco, for instance - but that doesn't mean fascism can exist without it in any way, shape or form.
Oh you got me wrong, of course fascism is created to serve capitalists, but after the fascist power grab, they don't need to have the theatre of freedom™ and markets anymore.
A square is a rectangle but not all rectangles are squares.
Just say authoritarianism. Fascism has happened exactly once in modern history. Words have meaning and you don't get to assign values to them because one helps your political motive better than the other.
Are you putting the fascist regimes of Germany, Italy and Spain into one basket? Also the current regime in Russia?
Blatantly false.
Fascism =/= Nazism =/= Francoism.
See:
Nazism isn't fascism is quite the take. I can't tell if you're a troll or just a pedant who goes about being pedantic wrong.
I'm leaning into the right of this meme more and more with every passing day
I'm in this image and I dont like it.
The dystopian cyberpunk future William Gibson tried to warn us about.
Spoiler: We're already living in it.
"The future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed."
The sky the color of a TV tuned to a dead channel has never looked prettier though...
It doesn't fail. It succeeds horribly.
It also fails, though. It's unsustainable, Capitalists sew the seeds of their own downfall. They just hope they enjoy the ride and pass the buck off to someone else.
If there isn't a large Socialist coalition to combat fascism, then fascism will rise before collapsing even harder. If there is a large Socialist coalition, and that coalition successfully combats the fascist powers, then some form of Socialism will likely replace it, and humanity can continue progressing instead of regressing.
After capitalism,
That would be nice. It's probably going to be war though.
I remember reading a Guardian article in which it discussed the requirements of any market to either evolve or die based on the circumstances it finds itself in.
It highlighted that because Communism could not adapt quickly enough to its circumstances that it failed - the centrally governing authority were not able to efficiently or effectively govern the market at the time. Leading to multiple issues.
I would like to see the evolution of Capitalism. That we do not view everything only through an economic lens- there needs to be environmental, societal and political factors which must also be taken into account.
That and personal accountability and responsibility for business practices. For example you can pollute that waterway but we will take all your profits and you go to jail for 30years
Capitalism evolves into either Socialism or fascism, so we should push for Socialism.
I think this is the ideal. Capitalism is reigned in and regulated, consumers are encouraged to buy more expensive products in exchange for better conditions for the associated workers and the planet, labor unions surge, and billionaires are taxed out of existence.
techno feudalism
Post scarcity anarchism. I suggest you read Walkaway by Cory Doctorow. It made me into a (re)believer.
Feel free to pirate the book. Mr. Doctorow doesn't mind. He walks the walk.
Neo-feudalism, then the thinning of the herd once high levels of automation are achieved.
Population decreases are already happening in modernized, wealthy countries, no need to do anything there. The poorer ones will end up starving as the climate collapses, so that's basically taken care of too. Population collapse isn't always good, though, somebody has to buy the goods and services.
Reading the comments here reminds me of that Slavoj Žižek/ Fredric Jameson quote:
The Soviet Union had race tracks and casinos.
People are always going to want something for nothing.
Why it's so hard to imagine life after capitalism...
https://youtu.be/PaASqPnpq5Y
It already has failed. This is what comes after.
Jean memes I presume
We're just going to revisit all the classics. Company towns, fuedalism, etc. The wasted potential is just sickening.
With the way things are going, a return to out and out fascism.
A mass die off
Mass starvation.
Yes, accompanied by an economic structure far worse than capitalism, and a government style far worse than liberal democracy.
We got it good.
Could be a Star Trek “utopia”. Technology lets us figure out how to solve resource allocation.
Depends on the place. A cycle of failures is a feature of capitalism, it's the opportunity for the next future failure to rise up and take charge. For great profit.
Lots of power struggles until one faction comes out on top (this includes subjugation and the equivalent of puppet states) or, less likely, those involved reach an agreement of coexistence.
Sometimes I think that humanity not breaking up into smaller groups after they passed a size of ~200 was a serious mistake.
Corporate feudalism was a fun concept I played with in high school, but now that I'm older, I think I was just approaching the concepts of a lot of modern cyberpunk settings portrayed.
We return to bigger army diplomacy.
Jk, we never left that system.
Neo-stoneage.
Anarchy, of the Mad Max variety because when capitalism finally fails, it's gonna be because they completely destroyed the fucking world.
"Fail" or "Succeed" is based on your perspective.
Capitalism won't fail. It's a great success to the rich who get richer by manipulating it.
Capitalism is a success, just not for us or anyone we know.
The 1% don't give a shit about that. If they did it wouldn't be an issue in the first place.
Chaos and war, probably.
Society fragments into a bunch of smaller communities. Some will be relatively nice, some very much will not
Capitalism doesn't "fail" per se. Capitalism is actually the default. All other systems require some kind of active intervention and oversight.
Capitalism simply "wins" due to being the best at making the most money. Whether that actually benefits humanity is a crapshoot.
Countries can set up some kind of socialist system, but things will "default" back to capitalism when corruption and/or stupidity inevitably happen.
If pop culture is to be believed, the country boys will go back to hunting and farming. At least until the diesel runs out. They'll fight off the free loading hoards from the city looking for food until the ammunition runs out.
I love the dichotomy of hope and despair in this comment due to the false implication that they believe themselves to be bulletproof.
That's the premise of modern country music.
Lemmyreddit finds a new political/economic system to constantly be bitter at.
Sadly , the country supports gun ownership strongly. It is probably going to be a black summer deal.
!fedonomy@lemm.ee
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !fedonomy@lemm.ee
Fascism
Europe Tribes?
@return2ozma
@hosford42
The ascendancy of bowling 🎳
Watch Alita Battle Angel or Elysium.
On masse or totally?
I think the primary cases in which capitalism will fall out of dominance, will be when it empowers workers too much that they gain the ability too sieze and distribute the means of production. When the state is empowered too much and control of capital is siezed. When communities have too much self relience or capacity to accept hardships. When automation makes manual intervention by capitalist too costly to compete with.
Or we get corporations so large they become defacto states, and whether they are truely capitalist will be depend on what shapes those structures take.
Not sure which one will dominate though. Socialism, authoritarinsm, distrubtionism, singularity, or some other one that I'm just not aware of yet. It maybe some hybrid, dual or tri power structure too, undoubtedly there will be pockets of all of them.
If capitalism fails.
It will fail, inevitably. It's unsustainable.
Yeah yeah yeah... Capitalism bad, m'kay ? I only see it becoming stronger and stronger with the growth of huge companies like Google Amazon, apple, etc. That are already beyond national level.
As megacorporations swell, and disparity rises, so too does exploitation. Disparity rising is not a good thing. This leads to instability and collapse.
It'd been unsustainable for thousands of years, and yet here we are.
Capitalism is only a few hundred years old, what do you think we are talking about?
Commerce isn’t capitalism. Capitalism began with the Dutch East India Company.