Do you poweroff your server during night / unused times?
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I believe this is a slightly controversial topic, at least from what I have gathered so far. Some say its best to leave the server on to spare the life time of the spinning rust. Other seem to prefer to save power and boot the server off each night. So wanted to chip in and hear what folks here do and why do what you do.
Bonus question; Do you guys have a UPS? Is it a must have for a homelab, or does it just depend on the usecase?
I leave my servers running 24/7, thats the point of a server. Also my home automation would be a little pointless if its off.
I did have a UPS, but it died and I have got round to replacing it.
Its all horses for courses, if your homelab is a playground to test things out then turning it off when not is use is fine. But some have live services that you may want at a moments notice and there for having it up all the time is better.
I'm in the same boat as you. My server runs 24/7, because I have some services that require close to 100% uptime to function correctly.
My UPS works fine though, and I wouldn't go without it these days. Just because the damage an improper shutdown can cause on data.
There's a poweroff?!
Im pretty sure OP is just yanking our chain.
And ruin my uptime stats? Are you mad?!?!
Among the many things I run are my own email servers so, yeah gotta be up all the time. And yes I have a UPS behind every electronic device in my house except the TV because if that dies I get to buy a new one.
I've probably spent upwards of $2000 on UPSes and replacement batteries over the last 20 years, but if it saved even one of my servers from taking a hit it was worth it. Servers are expensive and my time is valuable to me.
Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/705/
My home server does all my network related stuff (including DNS and DHCP) turning it off would be a very bad idea due to this.
I don't have a UPS, but it is relatively high on my list.
It all depends if you actually nerd those services 24/7
I dont need DHCP or DNS from 1am to 6am for example
"Do I need them? No, but I nerd them, so they stay up!"
A most relevant typo 👍
LOL I do nerd em all as well
You may not but your phone will fail over to data if it loses its lease and stuff like background update tasks will cease to function (like Windows Update or dnf cron)
I moved my DNS to a pair of raspberry Pi 3's running bind, with a DNS stub zone for my homelab domain that points to my homelab DNS servers.
That way the internet keeps working whether my homelab works or not. Keeps the wife aggro down.
You can do whatever you want. Don't let anyone tell you it's "wrong". A big part of homelabbing is to try stuff. If it doesn't work, that's fine, you learned something, and that was the point.
For me, I don't see a UPS as essential. It's generally a good idea, but not strictly essential. My servers are on 24/7, because I have services that do things overnight for me. I also know that some people access my lab when I'm not awake, so I just leave it on so it can be ready for anything at any time. It poses some unique challenges sometimes when running stuff that's basically 24/7/365.
Be safe, have fun, learn stuff.
I have a 'dumb' UPS for my synology NAS to protect against short power outages - it's done after a minute or 10 though so if I'm not at home it'll crash anyway. In Retrospect I should've gone for a smart one that will shutdown the NAS.
24/7 of course, that's the point of it. But I have solar, so I don't mind consuming power, and its not thatuxh a yway, so, anyway...
What's the point in turning it off at all???
Could be that it is hosting services that are only actively used instead of passively doing stuff, so no real need to have the server on when you're sleeping. For me turning it off and on again would be more of a hassle than it's worth it.
Agreed. First of all that would make running backups more complex, and would require either manual interaction, or very careful automation of some kind.
And any public facing service (like blog and some stuff) would still need to be accessible somehow, so...
Saving power of course.
Reducing noise and temps is another.
I have solar, so the power consumption is negligible, I am already mostly selling yo the network and not "consuming" most of the days. Also, the server stuff sits in a sound proofed and ventilated compartment in the most remote area of the house.
20 years of planning ahahahahah
Past the times when it was sitting in my bedroom.
I just said what the general benefits are since you apparently were unable to get that yourself.
I'm not saying you specifically should do or not do something, I don't care.
An UPS is a must for any computer, even if all it's doing is absorbing the shock of a brownout and triggering a graceful shutdown.
I run persistent services that require 24/7 uptime.
My servers are on 24/7, currently they use about 100watts each (I have 2 running), which adds maybe $20 to my electric bill. I also have stuff such as mailcow, nextcloud, and mattermost running, turning off every night would make those applications useless.
I have a shit APC desktop UPS. It keeps them on for 10-15 minutes at best.
Imo you probably save more money keeping the server up 24/7 than constantly shutting it down and starting it up again. Especially once you get a good list of services going.
Nope always on. Also runs homeaasiatant so if it was off I would lose the schedule use for lights, or phone connection for on/off etc. But yes, get a UPS, even ifvyou haven't had a power faikure a good UPS will monitor and correct voltage amd dirty power. It has saved me a couple of times.
Absolutely not. Ever. It does a parity check monthly and then reboots, that's that.
Sounds familiar. Unraid? 🤠
Yup. Been very happy with it for almost 5 years. 🤓
When my wife sees all my interactions in Lemmy, she says that we're just a bunch of nerds. Of course we are 🤣😂. That's the beauty of this.
No one should be powering off their servers. Thats really not the way to go about anything. Now there’s nothing stopping you from doing that either if you want to and it makes you happy or your life easier.
But if you want a simple answer to a simple question, no, nobody sane is doing that lol
We power off servers in the enterprise all the time and on schedules 😂. Its called saving money.
Uh, in your “enterprise” maybe lol.
In pretty much any enterprise using the public cloud. Everything is auto scaling, so shutdowns when not needed. Dev environments shutdown over night... If you're not shutting down and scaling in the public cloud, you're doing it wrong.
Ok scaling is not what we’re talking about here lol.
Is it shutting down servers... Yes. it just does it based on parameters and thresholds.
Then you get things like VDI servers and jump boxes that only need to be on between certain hours, so get shutdown outside them hours.
No Donny it’s not. You’re out of your element here.
They're fuckin' nihilists dude, they don't believe in anything
But it is. They're stopped and deallocated. They start up when demanded. And shutdown when below a threshold or a certain schedule.
I’m starting to understand why British admins are paid so much less than their American counterparts.
You do understand, when you have VM's set to auto scale, they shutdown when not in use, if you're using horizontal scaling.
Right you don't shut them down, you scale them down. My server also uses less power off peak demand.
No we shut them down. They get deallocated the same way as shutting down a virtual server does. They're not containers, the scaling part just turns them on and off based on workload or schedule
Most of us don't have clusters so shutting down the server means taking the server and all associated services completely offline.
Do you take your product completely offline for 8 hours every single day?
I see where your head is at here, but it sounds like you're focusing on containerized items. A lot of people are going to look at you real weird if you think of scaling down a container as equivalent to shutting down a server. We can all see where your mind is going and there is logic there, but it's more akin to closing chrome when you're not using it than it is to shutting down the computer running chrome.
Even physical hardware, if your paying power you can have clusters of physical hardware power up and down based on usage. There is no point in having 10 physical hosts running when the workload for n+1 means 3 servers overnight. With bnc, ipmi, ilo, idrac it will power them up as needed.
Finally someone who gets it.
Yup. I run those kind of clusters. But unless your in home datacenter territory, that sort of config isn't likely to happen in self hosted.
24/7 I have home assistant and other things that depend on it being up. It's not a beast but it definitely uses less than my oven. My electric use is big already from my electric car so the small savings wouldn't be noticeable alongside my solar panels.
Server is on 24/7 and it has a UPS for the momentary brown outs I have during heavy winds. It would be silly if it's off for any reason besides maintenance, even more so since it holds multiple game worlds in addition to some web and chat stuff.
No. Yes. Kind of.
My home setup is three ProLiant towers in a ProxMox cluster. One box handles all-the-time stuff like OpenWRT, file server, email, backups, and - crucially - Home Assistant and is UPS protected because of how important it's jobs are. The other two are powered up based on energy costs; Home Assistant turns them on for the cheapest six hours of the day or when energy costs are negative and they perform intensive things like sailing the high seas, preemptive video transcoding, BOINC workloads and such. The other boxes in the photo are also on all the time basically being used as disk enclosures for the file server and they are full of mismatched hard disks that spend virtually all their time asleep. At rest the whole setup pulls about 35-40W.
I have low power usage stuff so I just leave it on.
Is it controversial because of the fact that "power off" is two words?
Yes, because the CLI command is
poweroff, so I do agree with you 🙂(Please Wait... comments about alternative CLI commands will arrive soon...)
It is "systemctl poweroff" nowadays you fool 😜
That's an odd way of pronouncing
sudo telinit 0I keep mine on 24/7, except I have a cronjob that runs in the early AM to check if it needs a reboot from unattended updates and reboots if needed.
My NAS and production server run 24/7, I've got a dev server that I turn off if I'm not expecting to use it for a week or so. Usually when I do that, I immediately need it for something and I'm away from home. I have chosen equipment to try and minimize energy use to allow for constant running.
My view on UPS is it's a crucial part of getting your availability percentage up. As my home lab turned into crucial services I used to replace commercial cloud options, that became more important to me. Whether it is to you will depend on what you're running and why.
I've heard that one of the most likely times for hard drives to fail is on power up, and it also makes sense to me that the heating/cooling cycles would be bad for the magnetic coating, so my NAS is configured to keep them spinning, and it hasn't been turned off since I last did a drive change.
when i had only the file server, i turned on via WOL each time i actually needed it and a script shut it down if there was no activity after 11pm
now i host so much stuff and i'm so dependant on it that it requires redundant power and failover WAN via 5g...
Are you tunneling for just the 5g connection to expose your services or just tunneling everything?
Tunnel everything
My server has 5 harddisks (real spinning ones), and everybody says they live longer when running 24/7, so that's what I do. They are 6 or 7 years old now. S.M.A.R.T says they are clean.
Power outages occur sometimes. Once I had a problem with a file system afterwards. Later I got a small ups (for just 10 or 20min) and no trouble anymore.
Entirely depends on the usecase. If it's a NAS and you only watch a few movies in the evening: Turn it off.
I bult a fairly power-efficient server. Consumes less than 20W and spins down the harddisks if not in use.
I can't turn it off because none of the lightbulbs in the house would turn on anymore, my website would go down, my Fediverse instance wouldn't pull any posts from American people who are awake during parts of the night. My emails and chat messages wouldn't get delivered.
I don't have a UPS. Also depends on the circumstances. I use ext4 as a filesystem which is kind of robust enough to handle power outages. And they're rare where I live. A UPS would draw additional power and cost money. It's not worth it for me at home.
Personally I try to avoid making anything in my home actually dependant on my server. I have a single lamp that can only be controlled from my phone and that's only because it's so rarely used that I didn't want to put in the effort. Everything else is local first and only gets extended functionality from my server running.
I've had a couple issues with my zigbee stuff over the years on the server side and I would be really pissed if I wouldn't be able to turn my lights on because I haven't gotten around to fixing my server yet.
Sure. All that stuff has consequences. I also used to run a DNS Adblocker on that machine. So after a power outage, all the lights in the kitchen and livingroom (those are the smart ones) would turn on at full brighness (their default state). The internet wouldn't ever come back since it's missing its DNS server. Obviously I can't get any notification of the incident, since my server is down... And I fall back to being reachable via phone or SMS. If my wife tells me via chat or email... That's down, too.
I'm still working on a better solution. It ain't easy, though. It's certainly easier to use some cloud services and have other people keep the infrastructure running in some datacenters which have more redundancy... We have light switches, though. All my smart home stuff is just retrofitted. So we can still turn it off or on with the wall switches. I won't change that until I come up with a solution to this problem. Until then, I've dialed things a bit back and I refrain from making everything "smart" when I can't do it 100% reliably.
And it's just some lights and the washing machine. While I am a nerd and tinkerer, I don't see any good reason to own a smart toaster, fridge or Alexa. YMMV, of course.
Doesn't your phone switch back to mobile service if the internet isn't reachable on your LAN?
yes, the phone switches to mobile. It's just all the selfhosted services that are missing, like my nextcloud, matrix chat, etc. And several apps complaining they can't sync anymore or send messages. I don't use that many cloud services, so it'll be a lot of things I rely on. Browsing the web works. But I've changed things and moved the adblocker. So now that one issue is gone. It still doesn't solve the real issue... But at least the wifi comes back on its own.
Do you selfhost email too?
Currently yes. I have a bit of a non-standard setup though. Like a business contract with my internet service provider, which includes a few perks that are required to send mail and are missing on a normal residential internet connection (static ip, dns reverse pointer). And generally 95% of people recommend not to do email yourself. I might change in the future. Back in the days it was a few bucks more a month, but they increased prices substantially. Either I move my mailserver to a VPS or save me some time and effort and switch to some email service like everyone else.
If you have Hue bulbs, you can buy little radios that attach to your light switch (or replacement light switches) that will still operate your lights when the server is down or the network is unavailable. It’s a worthwhile upgrade.
Mine stays on 24/7/365 unless I am going to be out of town.
It runs 24/7. My Lemmy instance among other things, is running on the server.
I use a Power Station from Allpower with UPS capabilities.
Modular solution. Big NAS for backup and file and media serving shuts down when I go to bed automatically or nobody is home. Boots via WOL when needed.
Always on services on a central pi for home automation, phone and internet services, etc.
On/off:
I have 5 main chassis excluding desktops. Prod cluster is all flash, standalone host has one flash array, one spinning rust array, NAS is all spinning rust. I have a big enough server disk array that spinning it up is actually a power sink and the Dell firmware takes a looong time to get all the drives up on reboot.
TLDR: Not off as a matter of day/night, off as a matter of summer/winter for heat.
Winter: all on
Summer:
VMs are a different story. Normally I just turn them on and off as needed regardless of season, though I will typically turn off more of my "optional" VMs to reduce summer workload in addition to powering off the one server. Rough goal is to reduce thermal load as to not kill my AC as quickly which is probably running above its duty cycle to keep up. Physical wise, these servers are virtualized so this on/off load doesn't cycle the array.
Because all four of my main servers are the same hypervisor (for now, VMware ESXi), VMs can move among the prod cluster to balance load autonomously, and I can move VMs on or off the standalone host by drag-and-drop. When the standalone host is off, I usually move turn it's VMs off and move them onto the prod cluster so I don't get daily "backup failure" emails from the NAS.
UPS: Power in my area is pretty stable, but has a few phase hiccups in the summer. (I know it's a phase hiccup because I mapped out which wall plus are on which phase, confirmed with a multimeter than I'm on two legs of a 3-phase grid hand-off, and watched which devices blip off during an event) For something like a light that will just flicker or a laptop/phone charger that has a high capacitance, such blips are a non issue. Smaller ones can even be eaten by the massive power supplies my Dell servers have. But, my Cisco switches are a bit sensitive to it and tend to sing me the song of their people when the power flickers - aka fan speed 100% boot up whining. Larger blips will also boop the Dell servers, but I don't usually see breaks more than 3-5m.
Current UPS setup is:
With all that setup, the gauges in the front of the 3 UPSes all show roughly 15-20m run time in summer, and 20-25m in winter. I know one may be lower than displayed because it's battery is older, but even if it fails and dumps it's redundant load onto the main newer UPS I'll still have 7-10m of battery at worst case and that's all I really need to weather most power related issues at my location.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
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24/7, no UPS since I am cheap and lazy.
My media center PC has a sleep schedule, though, and goes into suspend in early morning hours. I am sute the power it saves is next to nothing.
I used to do this with my server, too, but scrapped that once I started needing it on randomly at night.
24/7 here with a NUC 8i5 in a fanless case; all SSD. I use a simple UPS (APC 600VA) to protect the server, modem, router, and main network switch, and it survives outages up to about 30 mins.
I don't have any job that needs to run 24/7, so I poweroff my server at night (12 am) and start it in the morning using WOL.
Additionally, night time is the time of creating backups. A second server pushes its backup also at night too. Potentially long running tasks like database migration I do at night. Lastly, when my server starts up it needs almost an hour until it truly reaches idle (potentially because it has to keep millions of files in sync with syncthing, I have to investigate). So my servers are more busy at night than at day
When my server was a laptop it was on 24/7. When my server was a desktop I had a cron job to turn it off at 2AM. Now that it's a specialized hardware it's on 24/7.
Being constantly on is very convenient, but if your services start quickly it's not the end of the world to have to turn the machine on for them.
Ignore the URL; I wasn't allowed to post without a link?? kept getting invalid URL, without anything in the field. Not sure why..?
I’m guessing it’s because you’d selected Link as the post type instead of Text.
Posted using Photon frontend. Doesn't give that choice, you just include what you want in the post normally..
Interesting. I wonder if that’s a bug in the Photon app. I use Voyager on mobile. When I tap to create a new post, there is a toggle for link, image, or text.
Yeah I would use that when I am on my phone too, but for web i much prefer Photon :)
Hey, I'm the dev. I fixed this recently
Thank you 🙌
24/7 and no UPS. Drains 33W on idle which I found good enough for me
Mine turns off at 2 or if noone has been watching for 10 minutes after 2am and turns on at 5:45. Nobody ever uses it during that time. It's pointless to keep it running. Additional bonus is that it auto updates all containers each morning. Yes, I sometimes wake up at 4 or 5 and it would be cool if it were running but it shows that you do not NEED it.
UPS depends on usecase and on the stability of your electrical supply (which varies greatly from place to place). I just leave everything running and have it configured to restart automatically on power restore (if it fails, which it rarely does).
Everything runs 24/7, but now I am thinking about theoretical power saving modes. Besides any built in power saving whatever (a little clueless), you could always throttle the CPU more. Not sure if it would be worth it without testing with a power meter.
I power off my main server during the night cuz it's too loud, but I have a secondary one (an old mini-pc) to handle sh!t like wireguard, PiHole and DNS
I personally only turn it off when someone's visiting over night and the noise disturbs them, otherwise I just leave it on nonstop. Mainly because it would annoy me to try to open whatever and find out I have to turn on the server first. I don't have a UPS and never even thought about getting one (for the server, I'm thinking of getting one for my 3D printer).
Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/705/
Just watched diehard for the first time with my mother, going to send her this lmao.
As someone who enjoys pluging USB drives on unnatended computers, I love people that never restart their machines.
Thanks guys, you are the best! Enjoy your uptimes (ง ื▿ ื)ว
If you're plugging a USB drive into my home server, then I have bigger problems than malware.
A well managed server won't init an arbitrary drive and has a lock screen with a password so that the most a rubber ducky would be able to do is reboot it. Which is something you'd already be able to do if you had access to the front panel with the power button.
I let my production systems (1x NAS/1x Proxmox Host) on 24/7 and shut down test systems or my onside backup. I do it mainly to save some power and also noise, because all servers are in my office room. I would prefere some low power/noise machines that can keep running 24/7 and if you really need some horse power because you would want to test something or play around, you can power it on and shut down whenever you want.
But I dont use any UPS, because the power grid is very stable where I live but I have snapshots every hour or so. I can live with an hour of data loss if shit hits the fan.
For a while I had a low-power server for my personal things that stayed on all the time, and a more powerful computer that hosted a minecraft server. As the player count dwindled, I decided to make the minecraft server automatically shut down at midnight, and wake up at 8 in the morning using
rtcwake. And eventually I disabled the rtcwake thing entirely, and made the smaller server run a webui that could wake up the minecraft server using wake-on-lan. So if anyone wanted to play, they would first have to remotely turn on the server through a web page. This was all password-protected ofcourse.Also, no, I don't use a UPS. I've never seen anyone use a UPS in the country where I live, and I don't think I've experienced a power outtage in like 4 years. Whether or not you need a UPS seems to be largely dependent on where you live.
Nope
