His comments about women are inexcusable, but the fact he convinced Linus to adopt GPL is paying dividends to billions of people globally, and most of us don't know it.
what may appear whimsical to men who receive them may seem creepy to women.
Isn't this site supposed to - yk - support the equality of all genders?
I don't really know what the site stands for or their agenda, but the list is a comprehensive list of things Richard Stallman has done to discomfort women in the field
discomfort women
Stallman has mademanyposts sympathizing with efforts to legalize some forms of child pornography. Among other things, they stated that he was "skeptical of the claim that voluntarily [sic] pedophilia harms children". These comments were defended by his supporters on Slashdot. As of 2016, there are reports of Stallman changing his views on the matter within the previous few years.[2] However, in 2018 he defended Cody Wilson, who later pled guilty to sex with an underage girl, with Stallman saying that the girl likely had "entirely willing sex with him." Stallman changed his original post but nevertheless still said it is "normal for adults to be physically attracted to adolescents" and that adults using trafficked children shouldn't be legally responsible. In 2019, Stallman posted an email to an MIT listserv about the allegation that MIT professor Marvin Minsky raped a 17-year-old girl, and due to public outcry he resigned from both MIT and the Free Software Foundation.
Women are just so sensitive!
Minsky never raped anyone. The 17 year old girl was sent to him and politely refused. She has even confirmed this. I feel as if he goes to great lengths to speak clearly and people never seem to listen.
I do agree, however, his early views on pedophilia are creepy. I have never heard him support cp, so I won't argue either way.
I am not a lawyer or a judge.
But "early views" nothing. The guy knows where he stands, it's just that now he knows that being open about those views will get him in trouble.
Somehow I'm not surprised. He seems pretty eccentric. In a socially awkward way that makes you uncomfortable.
He seems to have no filter whatsoever. His comments are inexcusable but he seemed to set himself up to broadcast every single thought that ever goes through his head to the entire world. I suspect there would be some clangers in there if I - or anyone else - spewed all of their halfbaked thoughts out all the time like that.
Personally I'm never going to meet the guy and my opinion of him doesn't particularly matter. That provides an opportunity to pick out the bits of his thoughts that I find interesting and leave out the bits that are crass. Appreciate not everyone has that luxury though, especially if they have been personally affected by one of the issues he's crashed into like a bull in a china shop.
Smart guy. Not a good person. Don't idolize people
Honestly it comes across to me not as him defending rapists, but actually just genuinely not understanding how rape works. The guy somehow understands people less than I do, and that's saying something.
We're talking about the creator of Emacs. Do you think that guy leaves his house.
That was my neighbor's defense, too. "It wasn't rape! She was very clearly coming onto me!" about the 14-year old girl he """encountered""" as a college student.
He very absolutely understands what rape is. He just doesn't want age to be a factor if she's "into it". It's very very very very very clear where he stands: if she consents, it's not rape, no matter her age!
Nobody is even accusing him of rape. Why treat him like a rapist when nobody has suggested the possibility that he had done anything wrong besides stick his foot in his mouth? It seems obvious to me that the point he was poorly attempting to make was that he's uncomfortable with the inconsistencies around age of consent in different countries, not that there should be no such thing. 17 is enough to be a consenting adult in some actual reasonable countries.
No one is accusing him of rape. Just saying his view on the whole thing is sketch as fuck.
17 is enough to be a consenting adult in some actual reasonable countries.
.......okay.
What, do you think someone's 18th birthday suddenly magically transforms them from a child to an adult overnight? The line has to be somewhere, and I'm perfectly happy with it being 18, but other countries having a slightly different line doesn't make them all rapists.
I wish people would read the published mail thread and not the news articles...he never defended rapists. His quote was quite different. Also, the victim, insofar as her interaction with his old boss, confirmed what happened.
An actual good take.
Thank you.
sad to see that he thinks like that about rape and the whole Epstein thing :(
Net positive to the world by a lot.
His fight for software freedom was essential for shaping technology in the last couple of decades. Basically any software today is based on open source directly or indirectly.
Don't listen to him about child psychology though
You have to separate:
Stallman the person
Stallman the programmer
Stallman the philosopher
I just woke up, so I started wondering who is Stallman the photographer?
The first two are already quite ghastly. The final one just solidifies my opinion.
What's your opinion of Free Software?
First, don't listen to his opinions on anything that isn't about comouters and software. He doesn't have a good track record there.
Do pay attention to his takes on technology and freedom, there's a lot of food for though there.
I was at one of his talks recently, and he's definitely and eccentric fellow. When it comes to free software he's a die hard extremist, and I have a feeling he knows and to a certain extent he does that on purpose. Case in point, he mentioned how he refused hearing aids and would similarly refuse a pacemaker as there are none running on free software.
As such, that's how I take his ideas about free software: a good philosophy taken to the extreme to showcase what'd be possible if we went all in on that, and the dangers of not doing it. Definitely not something that can work for everyone, or a realistic pathway to a world of free software.
I do think, however, that someone like him is fundamental to advance the cause of free software, even if no one takes him literally and emulates his way of life.
I'm not gonna refuse a life saving treatment or device because it runs on propriety software, but I am willing to sacrifice some convenience to use a free software alternative when available.
he was right about the computer stuff
Yeah, this is a good place to focus and stop. I don't like the other stuff I've heard about him.
Lol the OP is literally GNU?
I prefer to call it Linux, not GNU/Linux.
RMS is a weirdo but generally a well meaning one, and many of his points are being proven correct. I'd rather have him around than not
I've been going with LiGNUx. The G is silent.
It's GNU Richard Stallman, not Richard Stallman.
More properly, GNU/Richard Stallman, or GNU + Richard Stallman
I'm a woman, and have talked to him via email 2-3 times in the last 20 years. While I've met Torvalds, Jobs, and others in the industry when I was living in the Bay Area and working as a tech journalist, I never got to meet RMS -- only via email. I think he has social issues, maybe he's on the autistic side or something similar. I don't think he understands clearly some of the things he's saying when it comes to social stuff. He doesn't get a pass, but at the same time, he's a bit different as an individual, so that needs to be taken into account. When it comes to software, his heart is in the right place, and in fact, if it was me, I'd be even more strict (or more "Free" -- depends how you see it), with GPL.
Defintly, we need GPLv4 already. To fix holes in licence which using coorps in GPLv3.
I've watched one YouTube video of a talk he did and thought he was an odd duck with a lot of good ideas.
What stuck with me the most was "use free software, and be ready for it to lack convenience".
I'm sorry if struggling (if that's the right word) with that right now, because I'm interested in switching to OsmAnd instead of Google maps for navigation, but there's no traffic or road closure info. There's also no Android Auto option, as far as I'm aware.
Don't think I've ever agreed with anyone all the time though.
I haven’t learned much about him, but my impression is he’s made some pretty heinous statements about his personal views, but he’s done some useful things for FOSS. I don’t have a strong desire to learn more, tbh
For those who don't know much about him, I recommend watching the movie Revolution OS. It does a good job showing what he was working towards.
Unironically one of the greatest people in the technology space of the last 40 years, in the sense of accomplishments and impact on the world. I'm talking specifically about the free software movement, copyleft, and the GNU GPL. The world would be a much worse place without those accomplishments. The fact that a lot of his life's work is erroneously attributed to the kernel guy doesn't change that.
As a thinker, absolutely brilliant and unfortunately misunderstood. He espouses radical ideas about the relation of users to the technology they use that are still relevant to issues of today (e.g. enshittification, planned obsolescence, surveillance capitalism, and so on). It goes far beyond "you can look at source code to see if there's bugs or spyware in it." There's a reason "Stallman was right" is a meme.
As a leader and a figurehead I'm not convinced he's as effective. Regardless of the coordinated smear campaign from a few years ago (in which it was erroneously said "he defended Jeffrey Epstein" or "he blamed Epstein's victim" or some such), he has demonstrated behaviors that alienate people and people who have worked for/with him (e.g. FSF employees and GNU maintainers) have said he is not a good boss. His comment about "voluntary pedophilia" is inexcusable, even though he has said he no longer stands by it. The Epstein association was fabricated from a quote taken out of context, but I don't think it was wise to even join that discussion. The glibc manual abort() joke incident from 2018 is probably what convinced me of this - not so much that the joke is bad (humor is subjective) but that multiple developers objected to it and said it made them uncomfortable, yet he "pulled rank" and insisted it be left in (although as of now it seems to be absent). I believe his intentions were good (the "joke" isn't actually about abortion as such, but rather the US government "global gag rule" suppressing discussions of such) but forcing it in against the protests of the community was inappropriate in my opinion.
Overall despite the above I feel he's done more good than harm to the world, however, I'm not sure how much more good he can do in his position. I feel like the term "Stallmanism" would be an apt term for his thought but because of the above I feel leery associating myself with the guy.
your comment is spot on. thank you.
(in which it was erroneously said “he defended Jeffrey Epstein” or “he blamed Epstein’s victim” or some such)
I'm not sorry I completely missed this somehow, as well as the other drama named.
Yup, he's done great things, but also might be crazy, and has shown some poor people skills. None of this changes my approval of his work.
Nice, try RMS, I mean gnu
Love him. His one hot take, which was completely misconstrued by the Twitter mafia, doesn't take away from the fact that he's been right for 50 years straight.
We'd still be in the IT stone ages without him. If you don't believe me just look at the software they used to charge money for in the 1990's.
Microsoft would have likely taken over the Web Server market just as they had the Desktop market, without him. The internet would be a fraction of the size it is now.
I wish his license had allowed for more equitable distribution of profits. It's a crying shame companies can build billion dollar enterprises off of open source software and not pay devs a penny. It's a problem that continues to hobble libre open source software all the way into today. But he's stated he's not a socialist so I can't hold that against him too much.
One of my greatest idols since I was a preteen. Learning about him and his existence made me confident that there was a future for people like me.
How he has been treated in the last few years has been making me feel a lot less optimistic about the future of humanity. :(
He is one of the people ever in the open-source movement.
Politically, I don't like him. He had a critical influence in the beginning of the Free Software movement, and its failure can be easily identified in the core ideas that put the freedom of the software before the freedom of the people. The fact he cared more about software than people is reflected in pretty much anything he did.
On a personal level, he seems an insufferable asshole with enough power to get away with toxic behavior. Luckily, I never had to interact with him, but his visibility for sure didn't help marginalizing toxic egomaniacs in IT communities. Being neurodivergent is not an excuse for being an asshole. He's the last remnant of an age that hopefully is over.
Good programmer, shitty politician ;-)
BSD folk would disagree with the former. Though now we have IBM/Redhat userland getting more popular thanks to Debian and co.; which makes GNU userland look like blessing by comparison.
He's neat :)
Only man I've ever seen pick shit from between his toes and eat it while having a philosophical discussion about FOSS.
10/10 agree with the ideology and think he's an amazing programmer
0/10 agree with his culinary recommendations
Pointless hasn't been the same since he left. Xander looks so lonely
Good guy
I strongly disagree.
He is a creep, but he has done a lot of good for the open source community, that does make him a good guy, at best it makes him neutral, but after reading the whole kaffufle about his views on the Epstien scandal, I can no longer see him as a good guy.
He's a living meme who wrote some amazing software back in his day.
I like him. He is basically the kind of nerd I have often hung out with.
"I am not a woman, therefore I am not affected by his comments! Conclusion: good guy!" — far too many people in this thread
Dude also has some........ """interesting""" opinions on the legalization of CP.
All you gotta do is contribute to FOSS and you're a hero?
Some of y'all dumb as hell.
he has never endorsed cp! He has, however, supported any one over the age of 14 having sex, and has changed his view on that a decade ago.
As of 2016, there are reports of Stallman changing his views on the matter within the previous few years.[2] However, in 2018 he defended Cody Wilson, who later pled guilty to sex with an underage girl, with Stallman saying that the girl likely had "entirely willing sex with him." Stallman changed his original post but nevertheless still said it is "normal for adults to be physically attracted to adolescents" and that adults using trafficked children shouldn't be legally responsible. In 2019, Stallman posted an email to an MIT listserv about the allegation that MIT professor Marvin Minsky raped a 17-year-old girl, and due to public outcry he resigned from both MIT and the Free Software Foundation.
changed his view on that a decade ago
got quieter about his views
At 17 years, it is a matter of technicality. Plenty of places draw line at 16 years, some even lower.
Y'all are grown folk arguing if it's ethical to fuck high school students.
I got nothing to say to that.
Would you prefer teens to discuss and decide that instead? Or preteens?
I don't know him personally, so if he got quieter or lied (he actually has a statement on his website that, according to you is a lie) about his views, I would not know. Look, I see more than plenty of reasons for one not to like him. I feel people run with media reports even when we have his email transcripts that can be read word for word.
My criticism lies only with people who staunchly defend him and/or consider him a good guy / hero.
His comments about women are inexcusable, but the fact he convinced Linus to adopt GPL is paying dividends to billions of people globally, and most of us don't know it.
What comments about women?
https://geekfeminism.fandom.com/wiki/Richard_Stallman
Isn't this site supposed to - yk - support the equality of all genders?
I don't really know what the site stands for or their agenda, but the list is a comprehensive list of things Richard Stallman has done to discomfort women in the field
Women are just so sensitive!
Minsky never raped anyone. The 17 year old girl was sent to him and politely refused. She has even confirmed this. I feel as if he goes to great lengths to speak clearly and people never seem to listen.
I do agree, however, his early views on pedophilia are creepy. I have never heard him support cp, so I won't argue either way.
I am not a lawyer or a judge.
But "early views" nothing. The guy knows where he stands, it's just that now he knows that being open about those views will get him in trouble.
Ugh. God damn. 🤢
Somehow I'm not surprised. He seems pretty eccentric. In a socially awkward way that makes you uncomfortable.
He seems to have no filter whatsoever. His comments are inexcusable but he seemed to set himself up to broadcast every single thought that ever goes through his head to the entire world. I suspect there would be some clangers in there if I - or anyone else - spewed all of their halfbaked thoughts out all the time like that.
Personally I'm never going to meet the guy and my opinion of him doesn't particularly matter. That provides an opportunity to pick out the bits of his thoughts that I find interesting and leave out the bits that are crass. Appreciate not everyone has that luxury though, especially if they have been personally affected by one of the issues he's crashed into like a bull in a china shop.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/mbm74x/computer-scientist-richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-over-epstein-comments
Smart guy. Not a good person. Don't idolize people
Honestly it comes across to me not as him defending rapists, but actually just genuinely not understanding how rape works. The guy somehow understands people less than I do, and that's saying something.
We're talking about the creator of Emacs. Do you think that guy leaves his house.
That was my neighbor's defense, too. "It wasn't rape! She was very clearly coming onto me!" about the 14-year old girl he """encountered""" as a college student.
He very absolutely understands what rape is. He just doesn't want age to be a factor if she's "into it". It's very very very very very clear where he stands: if she consents, it's not rape, no matter her age!
Nobody is even accusing him of rape. Why treat him like a rapist when nobody has suggested the possibility that he had done anything wrong besides stick his foot in his mouth? It seems obvious to me that the point he was poorly attempting to make was that he's uncomfortable with the inconsistencies around age of consent in different countries, not that there should be no such thing. 17 is enough to be a consenting adult in some actual reasonable countries.
No one is accusing him of rape. Just saying his view on the whole thing is sketch as fuck.
.......okay.
What, do you think someone's 18th birthday suddenly magically transforms them from a child to an adult overnight? The line has to be somewhere, and I'm perfectly happy with it being 18, but other countries having a slightly different line doesn't make them all rapists.
I wish people would read the published mail thread and not the news articles...he never defended rapists. His quote was quite different. Also, the victim, insofar as her interaction with his old boss, confirmed what happened.
An actual good take.
Thank you.
sad to see that he thinks like that about rape and the whole Epstein thing :(
Net positive to the world by a lot.
His fight for software freedom was essential for shaping technology in the last couple of decades. Basically any software today is based on open source directly or indirectly.
Don't listen to him about child psychology though
You have to separate:
I just woke up, so I started wondering who is Stallman the photographer?
The first two are already quite ghastly. The final one just solidifies my opinion.
What's your opinion of Free Software?
First, don't listen to his opinions on anything that isn't about comouters and software. He doesn't have a good track record there.
Do pay attention to his takes on technology and freedom, there's a lot of food for though there.
I was at one of his talks recently, and he's definitely and eccentric fellow. When it comes to free software he's a die hard extremist, and I have a feeling he knows and to a certain extent he does that on purpose. Case in point, he mentioned how he refused hearing aids and would similarly refuse a pacemaker as there are none running on free software.
As such, that's how I take his ideas about free software: a good philosophy taken to the extreme to showcase what'd be possible if we went all in on that, and the dangers of not doing it. Definitely not something that can work for everyone, or a realistic pathway to a world of free software.
I do think, however, that someone like him is fundamental to advance the cause of free software, even if no one takes him literally and emulates his way of life.
I'm not gonna refuse a life saving treatment or device because it runs on propriety software, but I am willing to sacrifice some convenience to use a free software alternative when available.
he was right about the computer stuff
Yeah, this is a good place to focus and stop. I don't like the other stuff I've heard about him.
Lol the OP is literally GNU?
I prefer to call it Linux, not GNU/Linux.
RMS is a weirdo but generally a well meaning one, and many of his points are being proven correct. I'd rather have him around than not
I've been going with LiGNUx. The G is silent.
It's GNU Richard Stallman, not Richard Stallman.
More properly, GNU/Richard Stallman, or GNU + Richard Stallman
I'm a woman, and have talked to him via email 2-3 times in the last 20 years. While I've met Torvalds, Jobs, and others in the industry when I was living in the Bay Area and working as a tech journalist, I never got to meet RMS -- only via email. I think he has social issues, maybe he's on the autistic side or something similar. I don't think he understands clearly some of the things he's saying when it comes to social stuff. He doesn't get a pass, but at the same time, he's a bit different as an individual, so that needs to be taken into account. When it comes to software, his heart is in the right place, and in fact, if it was me, I'd be even more strict (or more "Free" -- depends how you see it), with GPL.
Defintly, we need GPLv4 already. To fix holes in licence which using coorps in GPLv3.
I've watched one YouTube video of a talk he did and thought he was an odd duck with a lot of good ideas.
What stuck with me the most was "use free software, and be ready for it to lack convenience".
I'm sorry if struggling (if that's the right word) with that right now, because I'm interested in switching to OsmAnd instead of Google maps for navigation, but there's no traffic or road closure info. There's also no Android Auto option, as far as I'm aware.
I don't know who that is.
based honestly
He's a cutie <3 <3 <3 https://rms.sexy/
I love how in every photo rms has his laptop on his hand.
Imagine how many delights and horrors that Thinkpad has witnessed.
I like the memes, but I don't know a lot about the person.
I think he may have been right.
Why does what I think matter to anyone ? I follow him on Mastodon and agree with most of his comments.
@rms@mastodon.xyz
Don't think I've ever agreed with anyone all the time though.
I haven’t learned much about him, but my impression is he’s made some pretty heinous statements about his personal views, but he’s done some useful things for FOSS. I don’t have a strong desire to learn more, tbh
For those who don't know much about him, I recommend watching the movie Revolution OS. It does a good job showing what he was working towards.
Unironically one of the greatest people in the technology space of the last 40 years, in the sense of accomplishments and impact on the world. I'm talking specifically about the free software movement, copyleft, and the GNU GPL. The world would be a much worse place without those accomplishments. The fact that a lot of his life's work is erroneously attributed to the kernel guy doesn't change that.
As a thinker, absolutely brilliant and unfortunately misunderstood. He espouses radical ideas about the relation of users to the technology they use that are still relevant to issues of today (e.g. enshittification, planned obsolescence, surveillance capitalism, and so on). It goes far beyond "you can look at source code to see if there's bugs or spyware in it." There's a reason "Stallman was right" is a meme.
As a leader and a figurehead I'm not convinced he's as effective. Regardless of the coordinated smear campaign from a few years ago (in which it was erroneously said "he defended Jeffrey Epstein" or "he blamed Epstein's victim" or some such), he has demonstrated behaviors that alienate people and people who have worked for/with him (e.g. FSF employees and GNU maintainers) have said he is not a good boss. His comment about "voluntary pedophilia" is inexcusable, even though he has said he no longer stands by it. The Epstein association was fabricated from a quote taken out of context, but I don't think it was wise to even join that discussion. The glibc manual abort() joke incident from 2018 is probably what convinced me of this - not so much that the joke is bad (humor is subjective) but that multiple developers objected to it and said it made them uncomfortable, yet he "pulled rank" and insisted it be left in (although as of now it seems to be absent). I believe his intentions were good (the "joke" isn't actually about abortion as such, but rather the US government "global gag rule" suppressing discussions of such) but forcing it in against the protests of the community was inappropriate in my opinion.
Overall despite the above I feel he's done more good than harm to the world, however, I'm not sure how much more good he can do in his position. I feel like the term "Stallmanism" would be an apt term for his thought but because of the above I feel leery associating myself with the guy.
your comment is spot on. thank you.
I'm not sorry I completely missed this somehow, as well as the other drama named.
Yup, he's done great things, but also might be crazy, and has shown some poor people skills. None of this changes my approval of his work.
Nice, try RMS, I mean gnu
Love him. His one hot take, which was completely misconstrued by the Twitter mafia, doesn't take away from the fact that he's been right for 50 years straight.
We'd still be in the IT stone ages without him. If you don't believe me just look at the software they used to charge money for in the 1990's.
Microsoft would have likely taken over the Web Server market just as they had the Desktop market, without him. The internet would be a fraction of the size it is now.
I wish his license had allowed for more equitable distribution of profits. It's a crying shame companies can build billion dollar enterprises off of open source software and not pay devs a penny. It's a problem that continues to hobble libre open source software all the way into today. But he's stated he's not a socialist so I can't hold that against him too much.
One of my greatest idols since I was a preteen. Learning about him and his existence made me confident that there was a future for people like me.
How he has been treated in the last few years has been making me feel a lot less optimistic about the future of humanity. :(
He is one of the people ever in the open-source movement.
Politically, I don't like him. He had a critical influence in the beginning of the Free Software movement, and its failure can be easily identified in the core ideas that put the freedom of the software before the freedom of the people. The fact he cared more about software than people is reflected in pretty much anything he did.
On a personal level, he seems an insufferable asshole with enough power to get away with toxic behavior. Luckily, I never had to interact with him, but his visibility for sure didn't help marginalizing toxic egomaniacs in IT communities. Being neurodivergent is not an excuse for being an asshole. He's the last remnant of an age that hopefully is over.
Good programmer, shitty politician ;-)
BSD folk would disagree with the former. Though now we have IBM/Redhat userland getting more popular thanks to Debian and co.; which makes GNU userland look like blessing by comparison.
He's neat :)
Only man I've ever seen pick shit from between his toes and eat it while having a philosophical discussion about FOSS.
10/10 agree with the ideology and think he's an amazing programmer 0/10 agree with his culinary recommendations
https://piped.video/watch?v=Rhj8sh1uiDY&t=11
Pointless hasn't been the same since he left. Xander looks so lonely
Good guy
I strongly disagree.
He is a creep, but he has done a lot of good for the open source community, that does make him a good guy, at best it makes him neutral, but after reading the whole kaffufle about his views on the Epstien scandal, I can no longer see him as a good guy.
https://stallman.org/
He's a living meme who wrote some amazing software back in his day.
I like him. He is basically the kind of nerd I have often hung out with.
"I am not a woman, therefore I am not affected by his comments! Conclusion: good guy!" — far too many people in this thread
Dude also has some........ """interesting""" opinions on the legalization of CP.
All you gotta do is contribute to FOSS and you're a hero?
Some of y'all dumb as hell.
he has never endorsed cp! He has, however, supported any one over the age of 14 having sex, and has changed his view on that a decade ago.
At 17 years, it is a matter of technicality. Plenty of places draw line at 16 years, some even lower.
Y'all are grown folk arguing if it's ethical to fuck high school students.
I got nothing to say to that.
Would you prefer teens to discuss and decide that instead? Or preteens?
I don't know him personally, so if he got quieter or lied (he actually has a statement on his website that, according to you is a lie) about his views, I would not know. Look, I see more than plenty of reasons for one not to like him. I feel people run with media reports even when we have his email transcripts that can be read word for word.
My criticism lies only with people who staunchly defend him and/or consider him a good guy / hero.
Is that a code name for a glory hole hookup?