Italy bans cultivated meat products
chemistryworld.com
Italy bans cultivated meat products::New law prohibits the production or sale of cultivated meat in Italy, with fines of up to €60,000
Italy bans cultivated meat products::New law prohibits the production or sale of cultivated meat in Italy, with fines of up to €60,000
more like the only nation to consider all cultivated meat a problem and prohibit it instead of regulating it.
yeah 2 things humans just will never solve for, better shut it down. shut it all down.
It's funny how you can replace synthetic food in that sentence with almost anything and it makes as much sense as the original sentence.
It's like 90% of Italy's mindset 🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰
(Really tho, if we start regulating stuff there would be shit rules)
So they're banning what's likely the "end all, be all" meat replacement in the (hopefully not so distant) future just so that being a "livestock farmer" remains viable?
Yes but of course. "Ban the machines that can harvest our crops, we want to keep our slaves" Its so sad to see...
Communism is a hell of a drug.
Hold on, which way is communism? Banning it or not banning it?
Health? Yeah, get back to me the next time there's an outbreak of mad cow disease, swine flu, or bird flu and say that to my face.
Jobs? The synthetic meat isn't going to make itself, and there will always be a market for "organic" meat in any case.
Tradition? The human race's oldest and most persistent fallacy. The democracy of the dead.
This is shortsighted. This guys sounds exactly like the idiot lawmakers here in America who said solar panels and electric cars will never catch on, so what's the point in investing in them now?
I wonder how much money the country makes by protecting those traditional methods of producing meats and exporting their products at high prices. Maybe that's what they're after. 🤔
I’m a big fan of traditional meats
We have a really stupid minister in charge of this stuff. And i mean it in the truest sense of the word, this guy has a room temperature iq.
Anyways, the sale ban will probably fail in court, the production ban will only harm the italian industry because sure as hell they can't stop european synthetic meat from entering the country.
Room temperature Celsius no less
We're talking Italy, so Celsius is assumed.
They can't stop synth meat coming in at the minute, but they can after they decide to Italeave... that doesn't sound as good as Brexit, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.
There will be no italeave/italexit. Even the worst populist here knows it's suicide.
The UK knew it was suicide and did it anyway.
Never underestimate the power of stupid.
Luckily while this government is stupid, they are not anti-european, so italexit is not a possibility.
Well that's understandable. I too want my meat to have been grown in its own shit and be pumped full of antibiotics and let's not forget the secret incredient: cruelty.
Fake news. There's a proposal from March, it is not a law. And it's so stupid that it bans production, not import (just to fuck over an already stalling economy)
But don't spread fake news.
Edit: found article on sole24ore. You are right and our government is a bunch of retarded.
Edit2: https://www.linkiesta.it/2023/12/mattarella-legge-carne-coltivata-servira-prima-lok-dellue/ This article says that our beloved president Mattarella did not sign it and sent it to Brussel for review.
BBC article states "Italian MPs have voted to back a law banning the production, sale or import of cultivated meat or animal feed, in what the right-wing government calls a defence of Italian tradition."
I'm Italian, no news is speaking about it. Last articles are from 28-29 March talking about a proposal, so not yet law.
It’s a law now, albeit probably it’s not really applicable and the EU will give us trouble the first time a European company appeals, because it limits the EU market and has not been accepted preventive by the EU.
Italian article: https://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/il-divieto-carne-artificiale-e-legge-AFLY77eB
Dio cane che ritardo mentale.
Non ho trovato articoli comunque, grazie
Ora dicono questo: https://www.linkiesta.it/2023/12/mattarella-legge-carne-coltivata-servira-prima-lok-dellue/
It’s even worse, the government approved the law but they didn’t notify it to EU neither sent it to Mattarella to sign it, so it could not be enforced… Retards
https://www.wired.it/article/carne-coltivata-divieto-bloccato-firma-mattarella-europa/
Not even the first time that they don't know the right procedure to do one of the most basic stuff of their job
All of these links say yes, it's a law that the sale and production of synthetic meat is banned in Italy.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67448116
https://www.barrons.com/news/italy-bans-production-sale-of-lab-grown-meat-328efe2d
https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2023/11/21/Italy-bans-cultivated-meat-restricts-plant-based-meat-labelling
https://www.just-food.com/news/italys-ban-on-cultivated-meat-approved-by-lawmakers/
I'm Italian, no news is speaking about it. Last articles are from 28-29 March talking about a proposal, so not yet law.
Edit: found article on sole24ore. You are right and our government is a bunch of retarded.
Fake? but... https://www.forbes.com/sites/danieladelorenzo/2023/11/19/italys-cultivated-meat-ban-just-a-strategic-move-ahead-eu-elections-ngo-say/?sh=7b4fe8c21323
I'm Italian, no news is speaking about it. Last articles are from 28-29 March talking about a proposal, so not yet law.
Edit: found article on sole24ore. You are right and our government is a bunch of retarded.
Please, non-Italians, pay attention: that has nothing to do with Italian cuisine, no chefs, traditional groups or whatsoever said anything about cultivated meat. And no dumb scientist said anything either. It's just some bigot, retrograde minister of ours.
Thanks for the insight, friend
Sorry you have that idiota
We’re a sad country
I'm going to snap all my spaghetti in half until this is repealed.
Hot take: spaghetti is garbage tier pasta. Snap it not because of this but because it sucks
Don’t just talk shit. Tell me what (and where) pasta I should be eating, goddamnit.
I find fettuccine a better use in every way if your dish requires straight pasta (not a huge fan of angel hair). Rotini is the shit when you have a sauce that is chunky but I also use it in mac and cheese - whenever I can really. Honorary mentions to cavatappi and penne as they do a great job of soaking up that sauce with their crevices. Them saucy crevices.
Along the east, rice noodle vermicelli is fantastic; much preferred to any angel hair any day when you can use a rice noodle. Kuey Teow noodles (flat noodles) I can gorge my weight on when prepared correctly. And do not overlook a good egg noodle in a killer broth.
This is in no way an exhaustive list but I find all of these easily in US cities!
Penne gang represent!
I meh at your fettuccine and counter with the far superior linguini
There are various types of "spaghetti", from the thin ones to quite thick, then vermicelli, spaghetti quadrati, spaghetti alla chitarra etc..Definitely you can't replace spaghetti with fettuccine in all instances, IMHO.
That said, I am team vermicelli (which are thicker). But spaghetti from a good pasta brand (for supermarket stuff, say Rummo, Liguori) are just another thing compared to the Barilla stuff.
Bet
If looking to keep the general spaghetti form, bucatini can't be beat.
I love em
Bet. Why would you eat spaghetti when mostaccioli exists?
It's fake, FFS.
Yes it's stupid, yes many Italians are pissed about this too, yes this will sunk our economy even more, yey italy
This is stupid.
Italy be taking a lotta L's these days. I wonder who they will side with in WW3?
Hey now, they were on the winning side during WW1. That's something.
Don't they have a volcano about to decimate them?
I'm all in for the death of humanity but why us specifically? Don't be racist, be inclusive.
Idk why you specifically, you might want to put a ticket in to the lead programmer. I just heard that a certain volcano may be blowing its top soon.
Hey now, they were on the winning side during WW1. That's something.
Hey now, they were on the winning side during WW1. That's something.
Is that what the people want, or some big key to power that stands to inevitably lose out anyway if other countries transition out of meat livestock?
Italian parma ham and such is quite famous and Italians seem to take their authentic cuisine very seriously. Supposedly there afraid that low quality fake meat will overrun the current market. I imagine the meet industry there is quite powerful though so assume lobbying was part of this.
Purged by creator
Which means if they allowed cultured meat then surely there gonna be companies trying to find the maximum legal allowed they can add to call it parma.
Honestly, i am a big fan of proper tasting cruelty free labgrown meat and i cant wait till it gets cheap. I Believe quality might succeed what the average consumer can get now. I am just putting myself in the hide of a conservative Italian lawmaker per exercise.
Holsteiner Katenschinken also allows the pigs to be from anywhere, but the whole curing process has to be done in Schleswig-Holstein. They could've went ahead and said that the origin of the pigs is crucial to its quality and very likely gotten away with it, but they didn't want to -- Danish pigs are cheap and plentiful.
That Parma doesn't mandate that all the curing needs to be done there is their own fucking fault and probably greed -- of big producers, that is, more interested in cheap labour than protecting local jobs.
Honestly I wouldn't be terribly surprised if in the future you'd see lab-grown DOP Katenschinken -- the stuff has always been about the specific curing method, enabled by our microclimate. The strict ingredient and process regulations will continue (including mandating that a lot of stuff needs to be done by hand) but if synthetic raw ham achieves a quality to what they're using now heck why not.
Side note: Carbonara with Holsteiner Katenschinken and Holsteiner Tilsiter is way better than with guanciale/pancetta and pecorino. Also show me a charcoal maker who can afford fancy import ingredients, fancy local ingredients are just fine. As long as they don't include cream, that is.
It's like saying that fish and chips is better using shrimps. Its not the same anymore, it may be better, but not a carbonara.
Shrimps are not fish. Holsteiner Katenschinken is cured pig, Holsteiner Tilsiter is cheese.
Also, no, your argument is completely invalid for another reason: guanciale/pancetta and pecorino was not how the dish was created: It was created by half-starving Italians trading GIs for their ham and cheese provisions, then adding egg and pasta. Only after that, after they truly and actually ate carbonara made with of all things American ham and processed cheese, after the economy had recovered, did Italians nerd out as usual and decide on what would be the best type of meat and cheese to use for the recipe -- but, fatally, they did not know about Holstein DOP products, they restricted their search to Italy. And that's how they made, and continue to make, the grave mistake of thinking they found the ultimate meat and cheese for carbonara. Or rather two of them you can't even agree among yourselves, one will deny that a carbonara can be made with pancetta, another that it can be made with guanciale.
Next up let me tell you about my recipe for Ragout Bolognese which I can just as well call Bourguignon, depending on which nation I want to argue with today. No to only a tiny bit of tomato, btw (depending on the acidity of the wine).
What is today a traditional carbonara? Eggs, guanciale, pecorino, Pepper, salt, water, pasta (and not all kind of paste)
Then if you want to male variation, better for you.
In my country we fight between cities about what is a Focaccia pomodoro mozzarella Pizzetta Pizza rossa
And they are all basically the same.
BTW we use guanciale for the very high fat content , what you are using is lower in fat, it looks like speck, different flavor
The Tilsiter makes up for the lack of fat, up to 60% of dry weight, pecorino tends to be way more lean. Speck Alto Adige is, in German taxonomy, not actually Speck but Schinken: Speck is a cut of skin with underlying tissue, both pancetta and guanciale qualify, while Schinken is prosciutto: Hind leg. Someone must've hit the Tyrolians over the head.
Taste-wise Katenschinken is quite different from anything you get in Italy, it's not really about spices (which aren't set but tend to include pepper and juniper) but cold smoking in a cold and wet climate.
I forgot pepper in the traditional recipe, the Schinken already comes with it and with its strong flavour combined with the strong flavour from Tilsiter adding more really isn't necessary, but I also wouldn't complain. A bit of thyme can make the whole thing a bit less heavy but definitely don't overdo it. Also the butcher might've used it in his spice mix.
And yes I'm completely fine with calling it Carbonara allo Holstein, and Latium gets the privilege of using "del". But it is a carbonara and I'm winning to die on that mountain. Oh, another argument in favour: Making it with cream instead of egg turns out way worse, unlike with the cheeses Tyrolians to at least Swabians produce which work better with cream. As such calling it carbonara is a necessity: So that you can complain when people use cream :)
Since Italians take the authenticity of foods so seriously, Prosciutto di Parma and many other foods are already protected by DOP designation.
They've cited health, yet I can't seem to find the health risk argument. Other than that, standard Italian politics where representatives are changed quite often.
"health" was the answer to the question that followed "what do you mean we have to provide a citation?"
Reactionaries opposing technological innovations that would prevent suffering because they're not 'natural'. Color me surprised.
Italy you say? The one EU member that has repeatedly used its power to lock down ag requirements and protections for it own foods for the other member states?
The only upside is that gabbagol is delicious, and who would want to fuck that up?
It locks down names. You can produce parmisan, you can't label it "parmigiano reggiano".
Slightly off-topic, but, is there a Lemmy community for cellular agriculture, akin to r/wheresthebeef? That's one of the few remaining subreddits I haven't found a Lemmy replacement for yet.
You have piqued my interest. Is this something people do at home? Grow their own meats?
Sounds gross. I’m totally in.
Not yet, and possibly not ever. Most current development is limited to academic institutions and small startup companies. But who knows what the future brings? Perhaps one day people will grow steaks at home similar to how one might ferment their own beer or yogurt. My guess is that it would be more trouble than it's worth for the average people though.
I upvoted the post so others see it, but I do not like that they're banning it. That's poopy garbage ass.
ahah why? is this a religious thing or a socio-political thing?
answer:
Conservatives gonna conservatise
Everything except the environment and ecosystem
No spicy cultivated meatball
Similar thing happening Romania too, it's disheartening but in a country where the meat industry was already hit hard I can understand the economic reasons behind it, but that doesn't mean I'm a fan of it.
Of course a lot of people are also just afraid of anything synthetic and "unnatural", falling into the same category as GMOs.
The country should be able to subsidise short-term economic failure, but it shouldn't hold afloat something that is bound to die (or reduce in size), especially through legal means. It goes against capitalism that underpins that economy, and common sense.... Things change, and businesses die.
Eh, in a real world sure, but a lot of governments run on populism more so than capitalism. Just sell whatever will get you re elected.
Excellent! I hope the rest of the EU follows suit
Why?
It's not real meat. It's not a natural process. It should not be done. Don't mess with the way God created things.
L take
I think its a good thing. Cultivated "meat" is just a giant cancer grown in laboratory. Imagine what health risks eating cancer could bare...
I disagree with that statement generally, but anyway, you can't catch cancer. You can catch a disease that causes cancer, but eating cancer itself wouldn't give you cancer. You can however catch prion disease... And these can live in real flesh/meat you get from a shop.
Also, there will be ground up cancer in processed meat. I guarantee it. You don't think farm animals get cancer?
Transmissible cancers do exist in animal kingdom. (Tasmanian devils for example). So caution is justified.
However, as far as I know, synthetic meat would be made out of muscle cells which are not immortalized.
Transmissible cancer
Christ. New horrors beyond my imagination.
Still, my point stands that there are already risks to animal agriculture. Tasmanian devil cancers don't make this a no go IMO.
(I am aware that's not what you are suggesting)
I would imagine synthetic meat would be strictly regulated anyway. According to the article OP linked, there's only two companies in the US that have been approved to make synthetic meat.
Yup, Tasmanian Devil facial tumor disease is indeed pretty graphic.
It should be noted however that the transmission is limited to within a single species, which recently went through a population bottleneck that resulted in their immune systems having difficulty telling each other's cells apart. Something like a bovine-to-human transmissible cancer would be orders of magnitude more unlikely.
Wouldn't the end goal be to create immortal cell lines for the various cuts of meat? Otherwise, we need to keep (albeit much smaller) populations of livestock around to continually harvest new cells from.
I am not so into synthetic meat ;-) So this is all speculation from my side. You can grow these cells for many cell divisions just not forever. So you keep a master stock of an early generation in the deep freezer (maybe 1000 vials). Then thaw one vial and expand the cells. Maybe you create a secondary derived stock. If they are old, thaw a fresh vial etc. If the/master stock is used up. Then you need to generate a new one.
P.s. regarding the transmissible cancer cells. I don't think it would happen likely. I think the cells need to loose the MHC gene/protein for this. Just wanted to tell that it exists.
P.p.s I would be much more worried by viruses/ mycoplasma unknowingly infecting the cell culture. On the other hand farm animals are sick all the time too.
You think regular meat doesn't ever come from animals with cancer? Or even contains cancerous cells? Not ever?
This dude doesn't even know what cancer is lmfao