As a parent the idea of not being able to obtain food for my child is literally a worst nightmare.
Your nightmares are tame, my worst nightmare is an 87-foot Donald Duck that eats memories.
Making a joke on a comment like that, on a post like this... 🤨
Daily reminder that Donald Duck is based AF. He is canonically a war vet with PTSD, and is at least a socialist if not a full blown communist.
Donald would be protesting the Israeli genocide of the Palestinian people.
If it eats bad memories then that sound kinda sick tbh
As someone with a lot of memory problems, it's actually pretty spooky feeling and confusing losing any memories good or bad. Idk probably that's different per person but even when I forget the bad the sense of loss is for real plus the "who am I" existential dread.
The IPC, (the people responsible for tracking and declaring famines), have released a report saying this is going to get very bad very quickly if aid isn't allowed in.
This is entirely avoidable and creating a famine is not in anyone's textbook of legitimate military strategies.
Well in the medieval textbooks it was a valid strategy....
But this is horrific and along the lines of torture. Genocide and death by forced starvation are disgusting, despicable things that should not be happening in this modern era.
Netanyahu... or however you spell his name... will go down in history next to Hitler, sadly, and the Biden administration supporting this genocide is on the wrong side of history.
Even with all this said, I'm probably still voting for Biden in 2024. 😮💨😮💨😮💨😮💨
FPTP is barely democratic. It leaves us with vote against who you want the least. 😕
Edit: English
Well in the medieval textbooks it was a valid strategy…
Embracing medievalism to own the heretics.
For once, I’m glad I live in California, so I don’t have to actually vote for Biden this time (because everyone else will).
I'm glad I live in Utah where I will definitely (and defiantly) vote for Biden because nobody else in this baboons butt-red state has the decency or morals to do so.
Aha, another Utahn lemmy connesiur in the wild. I've tried to convince many to make the transition, dunno if a single one actually has.
You wouldn't have to convince me much to make a transition as far away from this state as possible. It's my #1 goal on my bucket list.
Eh, depends on priorities. Only place in the world that compares in powder quality even remotely is a very rural area in Japan. Let alone southern Utah. But yeah the politics outside SLC are gigafucked
I lived in California for two years and loved it, I didn't have a regular job but money was sort of in the air - I never lacked for it. And the coast (I lived in Santa Cruz) was stunning. I can't afford to move back, but that would be my #1 choice. I loved the laid back atmosphere and most of the people there.
With how bad Trump is, it's understandable. But make sure to vote pro palestinian candidates if there are any in primaries or on the ballot.
I think your choices for most of the Western world are limited to "Palestinians die" or "Palestinians die while some cretin talks about what losers they are for dying", unfortunately.
That's a bit extreme, there are plenty of reasonable voices, at least here on europe, although the pro genocide groups tend to stick together and have and outsize power for the votes they get, they're not all there is.
In the US you don't have much choice but, that's all the more reason to vote and suport pro palestinian candidates, if there are any in your area.
You don't have to go to medieval ages. It was legal to put certain ethnic groups in concentration camps only 80 years ago. Encouraged even....
Genocide Joe must be punished for his support of israel.
If you vote Biden this time it directly signals the Democrats that there is no line they are not allowed to cross.
These animal farmers are making famines worse by driving up demand for cropland and input allocation towards feed crops. The more money is shoved into the animal farming industry, the more famine there will be in the world.
edit: if you feed food to food, you're wasting food. This isn't some obscure fact. The free market on inputs and even on land allocates the resources to who pays more - and subsidies allow the animal industry to pay more, to buy more land, to buy more inputs.
The future is plant-based. Anyone who doesn't want people to die of hunger agrees with this.
Yeah, I don't think that's actually the main reason the people of Gaza are starving right now.
Indeed, current famine is mostly due to war.
But food poverty, people skirting the edge of hunger, are affected by this.
We saw this when Putin invaded Ukraine and ruined the massive export of grains to developing countries and aid agencies.
And, indirectly, these animal farmers are making food crops less attractive, thus leading to less production of food crops, which means less food to give to aid agencies (assuming that the aid can reach those who need it).
Sorry, I apparently wasn't being direct enough, let me try again; it's gross to use the starvation of Palestinian civilians, caused by an illegal blockade on humanitarian supplies, as a springboard for vegan talking points, and you should be embarrassed that you just did that.
We get it, you're a vegan. Now, just for one second, try to not be self-centred and ask yourself whether, if you were in Gaza right now, and all you had was a thick, juicy, steak, you would eat it.
The answer is yes. If your answer is "no" then you don't understand the situation there, you don't understand hunger, try again until you do.
Mate, read the room. Tone deaf posts like this are a good reason why people hate vegans. And this is coming from a fellow vegan. Palestine isn't going to avoid famine by switching to vegan now; that's completely insane! And it would still be starving even it was 100% vegan, due to, you know, a fucking genocide happening.
Thank you, Mr. Tone Policeman
You're welcome, but it was mostly about a shit argument, not as much about tone.
The first problem is that I posted the comment on the wrong thread. There was a different one next to it about farm business owner protests in the EU.
The second problem is that nobody noticed that the quote in my comment isn't from this article about Gaza, which means that none of the people who replied to me read the article.
WTF are you even talking about? Your comment I answered to was this, which contains no quotes.
The only problem here is that you made a dumb mistake, refuse to own up to it and move on, and instead insist that everyone else is talking out of their arse.
Edit: fixed link to comment
Hey, uh, this is awkward but you linked my post? I totally agree though, this VeganPizza guy picked the wrong thread for this stuff.
You're right. I fixed it now but it seems that all the links next to the comment are broken in this thread, for me at least. The links next to the name point to different comments in the thread. Maybe a Lemmy bug
Yeah probably a Lemmy bug.
Animal farmers are much more likely to prevent this specific famine - when you're displaced from your home, there is no chance you'll harvest and bring your crops. There is a chance you can bring some animals with you.
I understand your point, but there's a time and place for that, and that is absolutely not here.
This is the time, any later and it's too late.
Stop pretending you are the voice of reason when really you're just selfish and lazy.
You, personally, are a net negative voice for this movement. If you never spoke of veganism again, you'd have a more positive impact than if you continue what you're doing. The way you're acting is responsible for the deaths of more animals than you're preventing.
Genuinely amazing how commited you are as to lying to yourself. Pretend that I'm the problem. Wow. I don't care if I change your mind, I have very little doubt about that. I've tried, but I'm still allowed my platform the same way you are, or don't you believe in free speech?
Yeah, I can see how you're trying - even if I wanted to, I couldn't pretend to be a worse activist than you are. But sure, keep killing those innocents with your cowardly behaviour - after all, you have FREE SPEECH! And those darn innocents, who are they to tell you what to say and not say?
One day you'll realise how shitty a human you are, choosing to eat our only companions in this universe.
You, personally, are responsible for more animal deaths than I could ever be. You're either incredibly stupid, or you know how ineffective and negative your activism is, yet you choose to still pursue it because it makes you feel good to think of yourself as better than others. You could also just be an incredibly evil person, but you don't seem like you' have the mental capacity for that.
You're not doing this for animals or humans. You're doing this for yourself, despite all the innocent animals you're responsible for murdering through your misguided activism.
Wow lie more to yourself. Your accusations and denials mean nothing to me.
Now is the time. You sound like the people who complain about calls for gun laws after mass shootings.
Dude, there is no food shortage due to too much animal farming in this conflict. There is food shortage because one state is trying to genocide the people of another state. Even if all of Palestine and the whole world were fully vegan, Gazans wouldn't have more to eat.
Please explain to me how your point is in any way applicable. You are literally making vegans look stupid, and I'm saying that as someone who is trying to move closer and closer towards veganism. Imagine you posted this under a news article regarding a school shooting - would you think that's the right place and time to post this, even if the time is now?
Yeah but there's enough calories to do this right on the other side of the Israeli Gaza border. The Israeli's could end this, right now.
tone deaf post
The problem is not a lack of food. The problem is a lack of logistics to get the food to the people. And the cause of the problem is not farmers. It is the regions most powerful military activly blocking aid. Soon it will also be because the government of said country successfully lobbied to defund the aid organization with established networks with Gaza.
The solution is simple. Don't activly block food from Gaza, and food will appear in Gaza. Almost like magic. If magic was the result of decades of hard work in building a new world order after world war 2.
Feel free to educate me if I am wrong, but I vaguely remember reading somewhere that famine happens due to lack of logistics rather than lack of limited food in the world. I still think future is plant based for other reasons(emissions, cost, etc) but is the solution to famines producing more food or providing more logistics? Or maybe a combination of both?
This sounds like a passage from Das Kapital where Marx talks about famine in India. What was true in 18** isn't necessarily true today, and I suspect that producers wanting to drive up prices is a bigger challenge than transport today
Currently, with the industrial fossil-fuel food regime, food insecurity (up to famine) happens:
due to markets pricing out poor people (doesn't matter if there's food around if you can't buy it)
war - destroying food growing capacity, killing or scaring away the agriculture workers, stealing harvests, or just preventing harvest seasons
blockades, usually part of war, which is what you see in Gaza
local production failure due to various reasons like: weather catastrophes, drought, epidemics, floods, but also economic failures such as the fail to buy inputs by the time they're needed, such as not being able to buy fertilizers because they got much more expensive to import (because production decreased and/or demand increased such as subsidized demand from rich countries)
As the climate gets more chaotic, drought, weather disasters, diseases and pests are going to become major factors in this food security state. The other aspect are inputs, especially fertilizers, which depend on fossil fuels which are both running low (getting expensive) AND must be replaced with something that isn't destroying the planet's climate. This is called a predicament.
In any sane society, resources that are scarce would be rationed according to need. And that means using cropland and inputs for food for humans. This is both for dealing with food insecurity and for mitigating climate heating.
I appreciated the info. I agree too! The circle v thing in your profile name is cool.
Welcome to the world of modern society. Actually this war's been going on since I was a kid in the 60s, it's just gotten more vicious with newer weaponry and more ability to kill children and starve people out of their homeland. What a wonderful species we human beings are.
I think it is modern social media and internet that help put this in world stage. Before you have to believe news paper or whoever own the radio. Now you can't hide the truth.
Certainly newspapers, social media and the internet have all helped to "shrink" the world so that anything horrible that happens, we know about it instantly. This can make it seem like the world is becoming a more horrible place to live every day.
But there are good stories out there too, we just don't hear about them - after all, they don't make money for the newscasters or the internet icons.....if you can have a huge following just by showing cruelty to others, that's what people will do.
USA, how long does this need to go on? Until genocide is completed? This is horrific.
Like I said earlier, this conflict (among many others) has been going on since at least before I was born in 1959. It never ends. One side or the other always looks for an excuse to use their weapons on "those people on the other side." If it's not about a strip of land it's about religious beliefs or holy jihads or oil rights or something else. It never will end until that final stroke of the nuclear clock.
HAMAS murders a bunch of Israelites. Israel goes on to commit genocide.
Propagandaists: Death to Amer... I mean. Genocide Joe!!!
America: Gives arms and shields Israel from UN actions for decades.
Israel owns America. Bibi said as much.
Eh?
Dying implies this is happening passively… they are being killed
Genocided, essentially
Meanwhile some totally not complicit countries have cut funding to the unrwa for political gain.
I know the blockade and bombings impeding access to umanitarian trucks is a giant issue, but the impending collapse of the main provider of aid is the one thing we can colletively stop, donating to the unrwa directly.
I personally do not want my tax dollars funding terrorism,. I would hope others feel the same about violence.
Western journalists right now
Holodomor 2.0
I really hate political correctness.
One would think hunger in Iran during both world wars caused by the good guys is not worse of an association.
Or, of course, Great Famine in Ireland. Also the Armenian Genocide, which I won't get tired to mention in such cases, included that too.
Holodomor being the first association and version numbers being put like this (2.0) mean that the person posting it doesn't really care.
according to figures from the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification, or IPC, a consortium of U.N. agencies and nonprofit relief groups. The figures, which the group says are their best assessment of the current situation, show that the rest live in South Sudan, which has been riven by a brutal civil war since spring 2023.
There are less than a million people who are starving in the world? Really?
I think there's multiple classifications of food scarcity. Starvation is different than being hungry.
The source is
Integrated Food Security Phase Classification, or IPC, a consortium of U.N
Unless we take the "UN is Hamas" route this number seems credible
People are eating grass in Gaza right now.
I'm still amazed. I would have thought it was still way higher. It's kind of uplifting... In a still shitty round about way considering the source that led me to this TIL moment.
Public opinion is definitely skewing more towards Palestine, at least here in Britain. Where I live, I genuinely saw a pro-Palestine march back in October attended by thousands, along with Palestinian flags waved everywhere around town. Haven't seen any Israeli flags or marchers by comparison, and I don't think that's out of fear.
The only people I've seen genuinely throw support towards Israel have been Rishi Sunak and Keir Starmer.
Here in Canada it's the opposite. Isreali flags everywhere, pro-isreali counter protesters attending every Palestinian event.
It was clear that this is how it's going to go, Israel planned this. The deliberatley destroyed all the infrastructure and sealed them in. I knew the body count would rise to possibly a million. It is a genocide.
Presumably Israel hopes to push the Palestinians out to Egypt or other countries. That is Israel's "Final Solution".
My european country supports this genocide by backing Israel. I feel deeply ashamed.
In addition to the increased tax burden and European agriculture policies that they say are threatening their ability to survive, the French farmers also want more concessions from the government to combat rising costs of fuel and animal feed.
There it is. Welfare for business owners.
edit: nice, I commented on the wrong post. The confusion is impressive.
And since nobody mentioned it, they're to blame too. It means none of them read the article and figured out that the quoted part above is from a different post entirely.
Your class analysis is off by twenty miles. A labourer owning a hammer and taking on contracts instead of receiving a wage doesn't make them bourgeois.
Oh, they're all small family farms?
Keep supporting fascists, good luck with the blood and soil crowd.
They're all smaller than Carrefour. That's the kind of place where the billions are landing while farmers, even if they have employees, are happy if they make minimum wage on a three-year average and don't go bankrupt.
These are not the fat cats you're looking for.
Here, let me give you a preview where this far-right small business owner (petite bourgeoisie) is heading to:
Too many people are giving into far-right populism. It's not going to end well.
The fuck has the US to do with any of this.
Same class of bourgeois.
To be fair, the original comment I made here was meant for a completely different post that was next to this one in the main feed.
Nobody bothered to point that out specifically, as nobody read the fucking article here either and noticed that my quote didn't belong to it.
And are the farm workers protesting (and are they unionized) or are the farm owners protesting?
They are overleveraged entrepreneurs. I agree that that's not good, but that's not an excuse to maintain business as usual.
Yes, farm workers are protesting, at least in Germany. It's in fact the small family farms who aren't protesting because they literally can't afford to, larger ones are doing it for them, owner and employees joining ranks because employees are smart enough to see that their boss isn't earning more than them, even if they wanted to they couldn't afford it. Which is also why the average tractor you see at those protests is quite impressive family farms can't afford that kind of hardware (and have no need for it either, and if they have, they borrow one or own one by means of a coop).
Marxist class analysis does not look at whether you're an employer or entrepreneur, but your power relationship to capital. And by that measure farmers range from petite bourgeois (if they're very lucky) down to right-out Lumpen.
As said: Just because a day labourer owns a hammer doesn't mean they have anything to say regarding their work, any power to siphon off surplus value, etc.
Honestly, the fact that you're trying to portray large land owners with and high-tech capital owners as "those workers" is extremely amusing, and also tragic, as you're supporting the soil of fascism.
Many of those farmers don't own land, they lease it. Maybe they own one field because they come from an old farming family, but not the rest of the fields they need to even break even. And a tractor needs to be driven and you need to get up early even if it is GPS-enabled and can micro-dose fertiliser into the exact spots the field needs.
Don't bring your US "one farm from horizon to horizon" POV into European agriculture. That's pretty much the case pretty much nowhere over here.
Lastly, I never said "those workers". Did you even reply to the right comment.
Many of those farmers don’t own land, they lease it.
Of course, the rentiers are worse. I agree with that.
And a tractor needs to be driven and you need to get up early even if it is GPS-enabled and can micro-dose fertiliser into the exact spots the field needs.
Right, because they're not workers. The farmers are managers and owners of technology. And they're becoming unnecessary.
At least try to understand the role of fossil fuels and technology in all of this.
Of course, the rentiers are worse. I agree with that.
Rentiers which receive agricultural subsidies, btw.
Right, because they’re not workers. The farmers are managers and owners of technology. And they’re becoming unnecessary.
Petite bourgois are by definition workers. Those farmers very much can't live from capital income alone. They're folks who studied (in one way or the other) agriculture, they are making decisions as to what to grow when and where, they're out there in the fields grabbing dirt and inspecting roots and making decisions about when to fertilise, when to harvest. They're farmers, doing farmer stuff. That doesn't change just because they hired the neigbour's son to drive the tractor over one field while they're inspecting another. Or, once every year, a bunch of Ukrainians come along and help with harvesting stuff that needs harvesting by hand.
And no they're very much not unnecessary. What's it with vegans and being city kids completely alienated from how their food is grown.
At least try to understand the role of fossil fuels and technology in all of this.
It's not just fossil fuels, import-dependent agriculture is generally a problem and those issues also include, say, phosphates. Not a climate change issue but a general sustainability one (those mines won't last forever), with further impacts on the local environment (overfertilisation and everything).
Meanwhile saying "your diesel is going to cost more" to farmers who couldn't afford to buy electric tractors if those even existed in the first place is tone-deaf as fuck.
Do you think organic farmers have it easier than conventional ones? Or don't drive diesels? Boy oh boy. The prices you get for produce are higher, yes, but it's also more work. Which wouldn't be an issue if you weren't saying "farmers don't work".
Marxist class analysis does not look at whether you’re an employer or entrepreneur, but your power relationship to capital. And by that measure farmers range from petite bourgeois (if they’re very lucky) down to right-out Lumpen.
Lumpen? Lol. I'm from Romania, we still have subsistence farmers. That's "lumpen".
You're talking about small business owners getting corporate welfare for decades, slowly losing to the bigger capitalists, which is the inevitable result of capitalism.
I agree that the competition issue is a problem, but most of them will support neoliberalism: deregulation, the race to the bottom. That's a problem because they're destroying the planet.
And the animal sector needs to end. The feed crop farmers can switch to food crops.
You’re talking about small business owners getting corporate welfare for decades, slowly losing to the bigger capitalists, which is the inevitable result of capitalism.
Talking about Germany: We're talking about farmers getting squeezed out by supermarkets and other traders and by subsidies geared towards increasing farm size. It has been decades-long state policy to shaft small farmers and benefit large ones.
That exact subsidy regime is what they're protesting.
I agree that the competition issue is a problem, but most of them will support neoliberalism: deregulation, the race to the bottom.
They're protesting that EU environmental and animal welfare regulations are costing them too much, yes. But they aren't fundamentally opposed to those regulations, they simply don't want to be the ones stuck with the bill. They can't afford those bills.
And the animal sector needs to end. The feed crop farmers can switch to food crops.
Bullshit. Intensive animal farming needs to end, meat needs to become more expensive (and also btw butcher's wages need to be increased), protein imports need to end (i.e. South American soy), but Europe has plenty of agricultural land to produce meat sustainably. There's plenty of landscapes we can't preserve without animal agriculture as European bisons aren't really a thing, any more, neither are wolves which would be necessary to keep the bisons in check should they be re-introduced on a larger scale and we refuse to hunt them.
If you don't want to eat meat that's your choice and I support it, but don't expect that bullshit statistics (like counting water raining down on meadows as "water use") impress anyone not invested in your moral system. Least of all ecologists.
Talking about Germany: We’re talking about farmers getting squeezed out by supermarkets and other traders and by subsidies geared towards increasing farm size. It has been decades-long state policy to shaft small farmers and benefit large ones.
Yeah, and that's intra-capitalist competition. In the end there can be only one Big Ag corporation.
I'm not sure what you want, are you some kind of liberal? Small time capitalists are still capitalists, even when they're losing to big capitalists.
That exact subsidy regime is what they’re protesting.
They want more subsidies with fewer strings attached. Not no subsidies.
They can’t afford those bills.
Because they're overleveraged. Because they're capitalists who bet (invested) too much in technological capital.
Do you still not get what automation means here? They are owners and managers, not workers. They manage robots or energy slaves. A tractor isn't a hammer.
Bullshit. Intensive animal farming needs to end, meat needs to become more expensive (and also btw butcher’s wages need to be increased), protein imports need to end (i.e. South American soy), but Europe has plenty of agricultural land to produce meat sustainably. There’s plenty of landscapes we can’t preserve without animal agriculture as European bisons aren’t really a thing, any more, neither are wolves which would be necessary to keep the bisons in check should they be re-introduced on a larger scale and we refuse to hunt them.
Bud, these farmers are all about CAFOs. Intensive animal farming delivers almost all of the animal products.
And extensive animal farming has no future either. Not only is extensive animal farming responsible for massive deforestation and GHG emissions from ruminants, but land is limited, and it's already being used for such activities.
I'd love to see the industrial animal farming system disappear tomorrow, and it would be the same farmers in the streets, along with masses of commodity fetishists complaining about the cost of living because the price of meat and eggs went to the Moon.
When we'll return to the land on mass, in a few decades, because that's the only way to survive, you and your kids will have to deal with these farmers you see today, and their kids, as the ones that don't sell will be large land owners who will not be sharing land with you (nor tools). You will be their serf.
Yeah, and that’s intra-capitalist competition.
No it's not. As before: Your class analysis is off. A capitalist is someone who can live off capital income alone. Farmers don't.
They want more subsidies with fewer strings attached. Not no subsidies.
Noone wants no subsidies in Europe. People want a subsidy regime that's quite a bit less neoliberal, that does even more for the environment and structural change within the sector, but without fucking over farmers.
Without subsidies farming would be dead in Europe, which is problematic for two reasons: First off, food security, secondly, capital would swarm out into the third world exploiting land and people there to produce food to sell here.
Bud, these farmers are all about CAFOs. Intensive animal farming delivers almost all of the animal products.
I'm sorry please what the village my sister is living it has no animal-raising farms at all. Two or three small chicken coops, but not for commercial purposes.
When we’ll return to the land on mass, in a few decades, because that’s the only way to survive
OMFG. Go to the countryside. Right now. Move there. Speak to farmers. Fucking primitivist city fuck, who's going to produce cancer medicine in your world.
Food aid does reach Gaza, but Hamas steals it all.
Honest question: can you send over a source or sources for that?
Before someone calls me a shill for Israel I think Bibi and his entire cabinet belongs in a prison, but I'm not ignorant enough to condemn an entire population for the actions of their government.
Thanks for sending these over.
I completely agree by the way that we should not condemn an entire population because of their government!
"The womb of the woman will be our strongest weapon against the Zionists!"
Yasser Arafat
Seems to be a humanitarian crisis of their own doing....
Imagine if all their concrete and rebar had gone to actual humanitarian projects instead of tunnels and bases to conduct terrorism from...
Israel could end this right now by allowing aid into Gaza or showing Gazans to evacuate properly.
Evacuation routes have been implemented... Hamas snipers shot civilians trying to leave through corridors.
The war ends today if the hostages are released.
The IDF is not allowing them to leave the combat zone. Just move to different parts. If they were allowed to evacuate they would be in IDP camps outside Gaza. Also, i'd love to see proof for that claim. Proof like the videos of IDF soldiers shooting unarmed civilians with white flags.
You can lob all the accusations you want to distract from the issue. If the entire strip actually did humanitarian work instead of terrorism, it would be in a much better place.
Yeah all these 5 year old terrorists had it coming, they can go fuck themselves
You just proved my original point.
If the entire world did humanitarian work then it would be a better place. Why are you singling out the people being forcibly starved by a foreign military?
You should head to Gaza then, I'm sure you could do a lot of good.
No, not really. Because the IDF wouldn't let me in to do it.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Michael Jordan - Wayne Gretzky - Michael Scott
The war ends today if the hostages are released.
Oh come on. It was never about the hostages. If anything, Netanyahu must have had a cramp trying to hold back a huge smile when he heard about the hostages. It is the perfect alibi to wage this war. He doesn't want the hostages released, they are his best reason for the war. At least for starting it. It is obvious there is no intention to stop even if they will be released now. If I remember correctly, they suggested a two month ceasefire for all hostages. Not the end of the war. Just a short break, and God knows how likely it is to be broken.
The current conflict literally started the day the hostages were taken.
Seems to be a humanitarian crisis of their own doing…
Houthis saying the exact same thing as the traffic through the Suez declines by 82%
Yes, that would be the perspective of someone who has no issue with terrorism being used to achieve political goals.
I'm sure you also believe that the far right is fully within it's rights to kidnap senators and storm capitols?
the perspective of someone who has no issue with terrorism being used to achieve political goals
I’m sure you also believe that the far right is fully within it’s rights to kidnap senators and storm capitols?
They've gone far beyond that. Just this week, a team of IDF gunmen broke into a hospital and shot the place up because it hosted injured Palestinian politicians.
Hahahaha "Palestinian politicians" as if Israel isn't fully within it's rights to take military action against foreign militants that perpetrate terror against civilians.
Funny, because that was the exact same attitude the Russians had when they began bombing Ukraine.
When you've got the Israel Defense Minister calling residents of his country "human animals" and Israeli assassins shooting up hospitals and a the Israeli air force launching rocket strikes aimed on ambulances, its abundantly clear who the terrorists are.
As a parent the idea of not being able to obtain food for my child is literally a worst nightmare.
Your nightmares are tame, my worst nightmare is an 87-foot Donald Duck that eats memories.
Making a joke on a comment like that, on a post like this... 🤨
Daily reminder that Donald Duck is based AF. He is canonically a war vet with PTSD, and is at least a socialist if not a full blown communist.
Donald would be protesting the Israeli genocide of the Palestinian people.
If it eats bad memories then that sound kinda sick tbh
As someone with a lot of memory problems, it's actually pretty spooky feeling and confusing losing any memories good or bad. Idk probably that's different per person but even when I forget the bad the sense of loss is for real plus the "who am I" existential dread.
The IPC, (the people responsible for tracking and declaring famines), have released a report saying this is going to get very bad very quickly if aid isn't allowed in.
This is entirely avoidable and creating a famine is not in anyone's textbook of legitimate military strategies.
Well in the medieval textbooks it was a valid strategy....
But this is horrific and along the lines of torture. Genocide and death by forced starvation are disgusting, despicable things that should not be happening in this modern era.
Netanyahu... or however you spell his name... will go down in history next to Hitler, sadly, and the Biden administration supporting this genocide is on the wrong side of history.
Even with all this said, I'm probably still voting for Biden in 2024. 😮💨😮💨😮💨😮💨
FPTP is barely democratic. It leaves us with vote against who you want the least. 😕
Edit: English
Embracing medievalism to own the heretics.
For once, I’m glad I live in California, so I don’t have to actually vote for Biden this time (because everyone else will).
I'm glad I live in Utah where I will definitely (and defiantly) vote for Biden because nobody else in this baboons butt-red state has the decency or morals to do so.
Aha, another Utahn lemmy connesiur in the wild. I've tried to convince many to make the transition, dunno if a single one actually has.
You wouldn't have to convince me much to make a transition as far away from this state as possible. It's my #1 goal on my bucket list.
Eh, depends on priorities. Only place in the world that compares in powder quality even remotely is a very rural area in Japan. Let alone southern Utah. But yeah the politics outside SLC are gigafucked
I lived in California for two years and loved it, I didn't have a regular job but money was sort of in the air - I never lacked for it. And the coast (I lived in Santa Cruz) was stunning. I can't afford to move back, but that would be my #1 choice. I loved the laid back atmosphere and most of the people there.
With how bad Trump is, it's understandable. But make sure to vote pro palestinian candidates if there are any in primaries or on the ballot.
I think your choices for most of the Western world are limited to "Palestinians die" or "Palestinians die while some cretin talks about what losers they are for dying", unfortunately.
That's a bit extreme, there are plenty of reasonable voices, at least here on europe, although the pro genocide groups tend to stick together and have and outsize power for the votes they get, they're not all there is.
In the US you don't have much choice but, that's all the more reason to vote and suport pro palestinian candidates, if there are any in your area.
You don't have to go to medieval ages. It was legal to put certain ethnic groups in concentration camps only 80 years ago. Encouraged even....
Genocide Joe must be punished for his support of israel.
If you vote Biden this time it directly signals the Democrats that there is no line they are not allowed to cross.
These animal farmers are making famines worse by driving up demand for cropland and input allocation towards feed crops. The more money is shoved into the animal farming industry, the more famine there will be in the world.
edit: if you feed food to food, you're wasting food. This isn't some obscure fact. The free market on inputs and even on land allocates the resources to who pays more - and subsidies allow the animal industry to pay more, to buy more land, to buy more inputs.
The future is plant-based. Anyone who doesn't want people to die of hunger agrees with this.
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1713820115
Global farmers facing fertiliser sticker shock may cut use, raising food security risks https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/global-farmers-facing-fertiliser-sticker-shock-may-cut-use-raising-food-security-2021-12-09/
Yeah, I don't think that's actually the main reason the people of Gaza are starving right now.
Indeed, current famine is mostly due to war.
But food poverty, people skirting the edge of hunger, are affected by this.
We saw this when Putin invaded Ukraine and ruined the massive export of grains to developing countries and aid agencies.
And, indirectly, these animal farmers are making food crops less attractive, thus leading to less production of food crops, which means less food to give to aid agencies (assuming that the aid can reach those who need it).
Sorry, I apparently wasn't being direct enough, let me try again; it's gross to use the starvation of Palestinian civilians, caused by an illegal blockade on humanitarian supplies, as a springboard for vegan talking points, and you should be embarrassed that you just did that.
We get it, you're a vegan. Now, just for one second, try to not be self-centred and ask yourself whether, if you were in Gaza right now, and all you had was a thick, juicy, steak, you would eat it.
The answer is yes. If your answer is "no" then you don't understand the situation there, you don't understand hunger, try again until you do.
Mate, read the room. Tone deaf posts like this are a good reason why people hate vegans. And this is coming from a fellow vegan. Palestine isn't going to avoid famine by switching to vegan now; that's completely insane! And it would still be starving even it was 100% vegan, due to, you know, a fucking genocide happening.
Thank you, Mr. Tone Policeman
You're welcome, but it was mostly about a shit argument, not as much about tone.
The first problem is that I posted the comment on the wrong thread. There was a different one next to it about farm business owner protests in the EU.
The second problem is that nobody noticed that the quote in my comment isn't from this article about Gaza, which means that none of the people who replied to me read the article.
WTF are you even talking about? Your comment I answered to was this, which contains no quotes.
The only problem here is that you made a dumb mistake, refuse to own up to it and move on, and instead insist that everyone else is talking out of their arse.
Edit: fixed link to comment
Hey, uh, this is awkward but you linked my post? I totally agree though, this VeganPizza guy picked the wrong thread for this stuff.
You're right. I fixed it now but it seems that all the links next to the comment are broken in this thread, for me at least. The links next to the name point to different comments in the thread. Maybe a Lemmy bug
Yeah probably a Lemmy bug.
Animal farmers are much more likely to prevent this specific famine - when you're displaced from your home, there is no chance you'll harvest and bring your crops. There is a chance you can bring some animals with you.
I understand your point, but there's a time and place for that, and that is absolutely not here.
This is the time, any later and it's too late.
Stop pretending you are the voice of reason when really you're just selfish and lazy.
You, personally, are a net negative voice for this movement. If you never spoke of veganism again, you'd have a more positive impact than if you continue what you're doing. The way you're acting is responsible for the deaths of more animals than you're preventing.
Genuinely amazing how commited you are as to lying to yourself. Pretend that I'm the problem. Wow. I don't care if I change your mind, I have very little doubt about that. I've tried, but I'm still allowed my platform the same way you are, or don't you believe in free speech?
Yeah, I can see how you're trying - even if I wanted to, I couldn't pretend to be a worse activist than you are. But sure, keep killing those innocents with your cowardly behaviour - after all, you have FREE SPEECH! And those darn innocents, who are they to tell you what to say and not say?
One day you'll realise how shitty a human you are, choosing to eat our only companions in this universe.
You, personally, are responsible for more animal deaths than I could ever be. You're either incredibly stupid, or you know how ineffective and negative your activism is, yet you choose to still pursue it because it makes you feel good to think of yourself as better than others. You could also just be an incredibly evil person, but you don't seem like you' have the mental capacity for that.
You're not doing this for animals or humans. You're doing this for yourself, despite all the innocent animals you're responsible for murdering through your misguided activism.
Wow lie more to yourself. Your accusations and denials mean nothing to me.
Now is the time. You sound like the people who complain about calls for gun laws after mass shootings.
Dude, there is no food shortage due to too much animal farming in this conflict. There is food shortage because one state is trying to genocide the people of another state. Even if all of Palestine and the whole world were fully vegan, Gazans wouldn't have more to eat.
Please explain to me how your point is in any way applicable. You are literally making vegans look stupid, and I'm saying that as someone who is trying to move closer and closer towards veganism. Imagine you posted this under a news article regarding a school shooting - would you think that's the right place and time to post this, even if the time is now?
Yeah but there's enough calories to do this right on the other side of the Israeli Gaza border. The Israeli's could end this, right now.
tone deaf post
The problem is not a lack of food. The problem is a lack of logistics to get the food to the people. And the cause of the problem is not farmers. It is the regions most powerful military activly blocking aid. Soon it will also be because the government of said country successfully lobbied to defund the aid organization with established networks with Gaza.
The solution is simple. Don't activly block food from Gaza, and food will appear in Gaza. Almost like magic. If magic was the result of decades of hard work in building a new world order after world war 2.
Feel free to educate me if I am wrong, but I vaguely remember reading somewhere that famine happens due to lack of logistics rather than lack of limited food in the world. I still think future is plant based for other reasons(emissions, cost, etc) but is the solution to famines producing more food or providing more logistics? Or maybe a combination of both?
This sounds like a passage from Das Kapital where Marx talks about famine in India. What was true in 18** isn't necessarily true today, and I suspect that producers wanting to drive up prices is a bigger challenge than transport today
Currently, with the industrial fossil-fuel food regime, food insecurity (up to famine) happens:
As the climate gets more chaotic, drought, weather disasters, diseases and pests are going to become major factors in this food security state. The other aspect are inputs, especially fertilizers, which depend on fossil fuels which are both running low (getting expensive) AND must be replaced with something that isn't destroying the planet's climate. This is called a predicament.
In any sane society, resources that are scarce would be rationed according to need. And that means using cropland and inputs for food for humans. This is both for dealing with food insecurity and for mitigating climate heating.
I appreciated the info. I agree too! The circle v thing in your profile name is cool.
Welcome to the world of modern society. Actually this war's been going on since I was a kid in the 60s, it's just gotten more vicious with newer weaponry and more ability to kill children and starve people out of their homeland. What a wonderful species we human beings are.
I think it is modern social media and internet that help put this in world stage. Before you have to believe news paper or whoever own the radio. Now you can't hide the truth.
Certainly newspapers, social media and the internet have all helped to "shrink" the world so that anything horrible that happens, we know about it instantly. This can make it seem like the world is becoming a more horrible place to live every day.
But there are good stories out there too, we just don't hear about them - after all, they don't make money for the newscasters or the internet icons.....if you can have a huge following just by showing cruelty to others, that's what people will do.
USA, how long does this need to go on? Until genocide is completed? This is horrific.
Like I said earlier, this conflict (among many others) has been going on since at least before I was born in 1959. It never ends. One side or the other always looks for an excuse to use their weapons on "those people on the other side." If it's not about a strip of land it's about religious beliefs or holy jihads or oil rights or something else. It never will end until that final stroke of the nuclear clock.
HAMAS murders a bunch of Israelites. Israel goes on to commit genocide.
Propagandaists: Death to Amer... I mean. Genocide Joe!!!
America: Gives arms and shields Israel from UN actions for decades.
Israel owns America. Bibi said as much.
Eh?
Dying implies this is happening passively… they are being killed
Genocided, essentially
Meanwhile some totally not complicit countries have cut funding to the unrwa for political gain.
I know the blockade and bombings impeding access to umanitarian trucks is a giant issue, but the impending collapse of the main provider of aid is the one thing we can colletively stop, donating to the unrwa directly.
I personally do not want my tax dollars funding terrorism,. I would hope others feel the same about violence.
Western journalists right now
Holodomor 2.0
I really hate political correctness.
One would think hunger in Iran during both world wars caused by the good guys is not worse of an association.
Or, of course, Great Famine in Ireland. Also the Armenian Genocide, which I won't get tired to mention in such cases, included that too.
Holodomor being the first association and version numbers being put like this (2.0) mean that the person posting it doesn't really care.
Of the around 600,000 people facing starvation across the globe, 95% are now in Gaza
according to figures from the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification, or IPC, a consortium of U.N. agencies and nonprofit relief groups. The figures, which the group says are their best assessment of the current situation, show that the rest live in South Sudan, which has been riven by a brutal civil war since spring 2023.
There are less than a million people who are starving in the world? Really?
I think there's multiple classifications of food scarcity. Starvation is different than being hungry.
The source is
Unless we take the "UN is Hamas" route this number seems credible
People are eating grass in Gaza right now.
I'm still amazed. I would have thought it was still way higher. It's kind of uplifting... In a still shitty round about way considering the source that led me to this TIL moment.
Public opinion is definitely skewing more towards Palestine, at least here in Britain. Where I live, I genuinely saw a pro-Palestine march back in October attended by thousands, along with Palestinian flags waved everywhere around town. Haven't seen any Israeli flags or marchers by comparison, and I don't think that's out of fear.
The only people I've seen genuinely throw support towards Israel have been Rishi Sunak and Keir Starmer.
Here in Canada it's the opposite. Isreali flags everywhere, pro-isreali counter protesters attending every Palestinian event.
Alternative webarchive link
It was clear that this is how it's going to go, Israel planned this. The deliberatley destroyed all the infrastructure and sealed them in. I knew the body count would rise to possibly a million. It is a genocide.
Presumably Israel hopes to push the Palestinians out to Egypt or other countries. That is Israel's "Final Solution".
My european country supports this genocide by backing Israel. I feel deeply ashamed.
There it is. Welfare for business owners.
edit: nice, I commented on the wrong post. The confusion is impressive.
And since nobody mentioned it, they're to blame too. It means none of them read the article and figured out that the quoted part above is from a different post entirely.
Your class analysis is off by twenty miles. A labourer owning a hammer and taking on contracts instead of receiving a wage doesn't make them bourgeois.
Oh, they're all small family farms?
Keep supporting fascists, good luck with the blood and soil crowd.
They're all smaller than Carrefour. That's the kind of place where the billions are landing while farmers, even if they have employees, are happy if they make minimum wage on a three-year average and don't go bankrupt.
These are not the fat cats you're looking for.
Here, let me give you a preview where this far-right small business owner (petite bourgeoisie) is heading to:
https://www.inc.com/inc-staff/capitol-insurrection-business-owners.html
https://time.com/5931320/businesses-boycotted-capitol-riots/
Too many people are giving into far-right populism. It's not going to end well.
The fuck has the US to do with any of this.
Same class of bourgeois.
To be fair, the original comment I made here was meant for a completely different post that was next to this one in the main feed.
Nobody bothered to point that out specifically, as nobody read the fucking article here either and noticed that my quote didn't belong to it.
And are the farm workers protesting (and are they unionized) or are the farm owners protesting?
They are overleveraged entrepreneurs. I agree that that's not good, but that's not an excuse to maintain business as usual.
Yes, farm workers are protesting, at least in Germany. It's in fact the small family farms who aren't protesting because they literally can't afford to, larger ones are doing it for them, owner and employees joining ranks because employees are smart enough to see that their boss isn't earning more than them, even if they wanted to they couldn't afford it. Which is also why the average tractor you see at those protests is quite impressive family farms can't afford that kind of hardware (and have no need for it either, and if they have, they borrow one or own one by means of a coop).
Marxist class analysis does not look at whether you're an employer or entrepreneur, but your power relationship to capital. And by that measure farmers range from petite bourgeois (if they're very lucky) down to right-out Lumpen.
As said: Just because a day labourer owns a hammer doesn't mean they have anything to say regarding their work, any power to siphon off surplus value, etc.
Honestly, the fact that you're trying to portray large land owners with and high-tech capital owners as "those workers" is extremely amusing, and also tragic, as you're supporting the soil of fascism.
Many of those farmers don't own land, they lease it. Maybe they own one field because they come from an old farming family, but not the rest of the fields they need to even break even. And a tractor needs to be driven and you need to get up early even if it is GPS-enabled and can micro-dose fertiliser into the exact spots the field needs.
Don't bring your US "one farm from horizon to horizon" POV into European agriculture. That's pretty much the case pretty much nowhere over here.
Lastly, I never said "those workers". Did you even reply to the right comment.
Of course, the rentiers are worse. I agree with that.
Right, because they're not workers. The farmers are managers and owners of technology. And they're becoming unnecessary.
At least try to understand the role of fossil fuels and technology in all of this.
Here, start with Luddites: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2021/06/the-luddites-were-right
Rentiers which receive agricultural subsidies, btw.
Petite bourgois are by definition workers. Those farmers very much can't live from capital income alone. They're folks who studied (in one way or the other) agriculture, they are making decisions as to what to grow when and where, they're out there in the fields grabbing dirt and inspecting roots and making decisions about when to fertilise, when to harvest. They're farmers, doing farmer stuff. That doesn't change just because they hired the neigbour's son to drive the tractor over one field while they're inspecting another. Or, once every year, a bunch of Ukrainians come along and help with harvesting stuff that needs harvesting by hand.
And no they're very much not unnecessary. What's it with vegans and being city kids completely alienated from how their food is grown.
It's not just fossil fuels, import-dependent agriculture is generally a problem and those issues also include, say, phosphates. Not a climate change issue but a general sustainability one (those mines won't last forever), with further impacts on the local environment (overfertilisation and everything).
Meanwhile saying "your diesel is going to cost more" to farmers who couldn't afford to buy electric tractors if those even existed in the first place is tone-deaf as fuck.
Do you think organic farmers have it easier than conventional ones? Or don't drive diesels? Boy oh boy. The prices you get for produce are higher, yes, but it's also more work. Which wouldn't be an issue if you weren't saying "farmers don't work".
Lumpen? Lol. I'm from Romania, we still have subsistence farmers. That's "lumpen".
You're talking about small business owners getting corporate welfare for decades, slowly losing to the bigger capitalists, which is the inevitable result of capitalism.
I agree that the competition issue is a problem, but most of them will support neoliberalism: deregulation, the race to the bottom. That's a problem because they're destroying the planet.
And the animal sector needs to end. The feed crop farmers can switch to food crops.
Talking about Germany: We're talking about farmers getting squeezed out by supermarkets and other traders and by subsidies geared towards increasing farm size. It has been decades-long state policy to shaft small farmers and benefit large ones.
That exact subsidy regime is what they're protesting.
They're protesting that EU environmental and animal welfare regulations are costing them too much, yes. But they aren't fundamentally opposed to those regulations, they simply don't want to be the ones stuck with the bill. They can't afford those bills.
Bullshit. Intensive animal farming needs to end, meat needs to become more expensive (and also btw butcher's wages need to be increased), protein imports need to end (i.e. South American soy), but Europe has plenty of agricultural land to produce meat sustainably. There's plenty of landscapes we can't preserve without animal agriculture as European bisons aren't really a thing, any more, neither are wolves which would be necessary to keep the bisons in check should they be re-introduced on a larger scale and we refuse to hunt them.
If you don't want to eat meat that's your choice and I support it, but don't expect that bullshit statistics (like counting water raining down on meadows as "water use") impress anyone not invested in your moral system. Least of all ecologists.
Yeah, and that's intra-capitalist competition. In the end there can be only one Big Ag corporation.
I'm not sure what you want, are you some kind of liberal? Small time capitalists are still capitalists, even when they're losing to big capitalists.
They want more subsidies with fewer strings attached. Not no subsidies.
Because they're overleveraged. Because they're capitalists who bet (invested) too much in technological capital.
Do you still not get what automation means here? They are owners and managers, not workers. They manage robots or energy slaves. A tractor isn't a hammer.
Bud, these farmers are all about CAFOs. Intensive animal farming delivers almost all of the animal products.
And extensive animal farming has no future either. Not only is extensive animal farming responsible for massive deforestation and GHG emissions from ruminants, but land is limited, and it's already being used for such activities.
I'd love to see the industrial animal farming system disappear tomorrow, and it would be the same farmers in the streets, along with masses of commodity fetishists complaining about the cost of living because the price of meat and eggs went to the Moon.
When we'll return to the land on mass, in a few decades, because that's the only way to survive, you and your kids will have to deal with these farmers you see today, and their kids, as the ones that don't sell will be large land owners who will not be sharing land with you (nor tools). You will be their serf.
No it's not. As before: Your class analysis is off. A capitalist is someone who can live off capital income alone. Farmers don't.
Noone wants no subsidies in Europe. People want a subsidy regime that's quite a bit less neoliberal, that does even more for the environment and structural change within the sector, but without fucking over farmers.
Without subsidies farming would be dead in Europe, which is problematic for two reasons: First off, food security, secondly, capital would swarm out into the third world exploiting land and people there to produce food to sell here.
I'm sorry please what the village my sister is living it has no animal-raising farms at all. Two or three small chicken coops, but not for commercial purposes.
OMFG. Go to the countryside. Right now. Move there. Speak to farmers. Fucking primitivist city fuck, who's going to produce cancer medicine in your world.
Food aid does reach Gaza, but Hamas steals it all.
Honest question: can you send over a source or sources for that?
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-territories/1702285314-caught-on-camera-hamas-terrorists-steal-humanitarian-aid-beat-civilians
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/videos/international/watch-idf-releases-video-showing-hamas-fighters-allegedly-stealing-humanitarian-aid-received-by-gaza-residents/videoshow/105876059.cms
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/08/elderly-gazan-accuses-hamas-stealing-aid-rare-criticism/
Before someone calls me a shill for Israel I think Bibi and his entire cabinet belongs in a prison, but I'm not ignorant enough to condemn an entire population for the actions of their government.
Thanks for sending these over.
I completely agree by the way that we should not condemn an entire population because of their government!
"The womb of the woman will be our strongest weapon against the Zionists!"
Seems to be a humanitarian crisis of their own doing....
Imagine if all their concrete and rebar had gone to actual humanitarian projects instead of tunnels and bases to conduct terrorism from...
Israel could end this right now by allowing aid into Gaza or showing Gazans to evacuate properly.
Evacuation routes have been implemented... Hamas snipers shot civilians trying to leave through corridors.
The war ends today if the hostages are released.
The IDF is not allowing them to leave the combat zone. Just move to different parts. If they were allowed to evacuate they would be in IDP camps outside Gaza. Also, i'd love to see proof for that claim. Proof like the videos of IDF soldiers shooting unarmed civilians with white flags.
You can lob all the accusations you want to distract from the issue. If the entire strip actually did humanitarian work instead of terrorism, it would be in a much better place.
Yeah all these 5 year old terrorists had it coming, they can go fuck themselves
You just proved my original point.
If the entire world did humanitarian work then it would be a better place. Why are you singling out the people being forcibly starved by a foreign military?
You should head to Gaza then, I'm sure you could do a lot of good.
No, not really. Because the IDF wouldn't let me in to do it.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Michael Jordan - Wayne Gretzky - Michael Scott
Oh come on. It was never about the hostages. If anything, Netanyahu must have had a cramp trying to hold back a huge smile when he heard about the hostages. It is the perfect alibi to wage this war. He doesn't want the hostages released, they are his best reason for the war. At least for starting it. It is obvious there is no intention to stop even if they will be released now. If I remember correctly, they suggested a two month ceasefire for all hostages. Not the end of the war. Just a short break, and God knows how likely it is to be broken.
The current conflict literally started the day the hostages were taken.
Houthis saying the exact same thing as the traffic through the Suez declines by 82%
Yes, that would be the perspective of someone who has no issue with terrorism being used to achieve political goals.
I'm sure you also believe that the far right is fully within it's rights to kidnap senators and storm capitols?
Apparently you can sponsor a missile strike on behalf of the Israeli government in Gaza.
They've gone far beyond that. Just this week, a team of IDF gunmen broke into a hospital and shot the place up because it hosted injured Palestinian politicians.
Hahahaha "Palestinian politicians" as if Israel isn't fully within it's rights to take military action against foreign militants that perpetrate terror against civilians.
Funny, because that was the exact same attitude the Russians had when they began bombing Ukraine.
There's a 10-story tall billboard of Vladimir Putin and Benjamin Netanyahu shaking hands, adoring the Likud Party HQ in Tel Aviv and I can't help but notice their friendship has lead to some enormous overlap on attitudes toward recalcitrant neighbors.
When you've got the Israel Defense Minister calling residents of his country "human animals" and Israeli assassins shooting up hospitals and a the Israeli air force launching rocket strikes aimed on ambulances, its abundantly clear who the terrorists are.