Taliban edict to resume stoning women to death met with horror
theguardian.com
The Taliban’s announcement that it is resuming publicly stoning women to death has been enabled by the international community’s silence, human rights groups have said.
Safia Arefi, a lawyer and head of the Afghan human rights organisation Women’s Window of Hope, said the announcement had condemned Afghan women to return to the darkest days of Taliban rule in the 1990s.
“With this announcement by the Taliban leader, a new chapter of private punishments has begun and Afghan women are experiencing the depths of loneliness,” Arefi said.
“Now, no one is standing beside them to save them from Taliban punishments. The international community has chosen to remain silent in the face of these violations of women’s rights.”
And somehow despite being obviously evil and despicable they believe themselves to be the good guys.
Religion is a hell of a drug.
Except drugs aren't always bad.
In reality religion is poison.
Also, if we want to talk numbers, I'd guess religion has killed more people than drugs.
Orders of magnitude more.
The difference between drug and poison is dosage.
Taliban is obviously OD.
This though! You can be religious without being a delusional monster.
You can’t really be religious, especially a follower of Abrahamic faiths without
A: accepting what the texts actually say, which involves implicit acceptance of abhorrent views
Or
B: cherry picking and denying the abhorrent parts, which means you aren’t actually following the religion at all
If you go with B, you’re not really religious, you’re spiritual and searching for purpose and grabbing the easiest answer available.
Religion is poison
Well put. 👍
Religion is not always bad, just like people are not always bad generally. I'd agree that fanatism is always bad though.
Republicans:
At least we could tell Republican women "told you so"
Ah, the good old argument from "I'm just right and you're wrong, OK?" with a garnish of "The Creator of the universe told me I'm great and said you suck." Please may I never be this certain of anything.
When you can back up your arguments with the threat of death, you get used to saying bullshit and not having it challenged.
So Satan is a nicer dude than Allah?
Both are equally imaginary
He's technically true in the last part though
This was always going to happen. Once Trump signed the surrender, and released Taliban fighters, some of which run this government, the die was cast.
The die was cast long before that when the US decided to fund the mujahideen to fight the Soviets. That destroyed the possibility of a secular Afghani state. The US later found that the easiest way to pacify the country was to simply bribe Taliban aligned warlords. Once the money spigot was turned off, a Taliban resurgence was inevitable. Every administration from Reagan to Biden shares some blame in what is happening today.
Can you please point me to more info on these two points?
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/9/30/us-generals-say-afghanistan-collapse-rooted-in-trump-taliban-deal#:~:text=He%20was%20referring%20to%20a,on%20US%20and%20coalition%20forces
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/15/talibans-abdul-ghani-baradar-is-undisputed-victor-of-a-20-year-war
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Taliban_deal
Signed by Trump and allowed to take effect by Biden. Both US parties accepted this result.
Well Biden could have put in the troops needed that Trump removed I suppose. Tear up the capitulation, etc.
Don't blame the president: WE decided to go in and kill a ton of Taliban, WE decided to spend actual trillions standing up and equipping an army that did not give enough of a fuck about anything but grifting. The ANA did not even try to slow down the Taliban when the US stopped acting as a backstop. Afghanistan never really thought of itself as a cohesive nation, we were never going to change their psyche.
I'd rather blame Bush and Obama for sinking trillions into helping their friends get rich at the cost of everyone pretending we were building a real country.
He’s not the president, dude…
Imagine, if you will, a scenario where things at one point in time cause other things at later points in time.
Cristofacists looking at this and thinking to themselves: "We can one up them"
I'm more surprised they weren't already.
Yeah, I didn't realized they ever stopped.
Conservatism is a deadly, contagious social disease that destroys entire cultures.
In Afghanistan, we can see the natural, final stage of conservatism. This is what the future holds for any country that cannot offer sufficient resistance to this disease.
Honest good faith question: what can the international community do?
Maybe accept migrants from Afghanistan?
This is, IMO, the only true answer to many of the atrocities we see across the world.
I think that western countries should look to improve their infrastructure for the inevitable future where more people choose to live in Europe and North America.
Yeah, if we really care about improving people's lives we should let people make the choice to come to countries where they will have rights. If enough people leave, eventually countries will have to start changing their policies. Inflicting centuries of war and colonialism seems more about big countries having access to land and resources.
Nothing because it has no actual power. What have they done with regards to the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine or Palestine?
Sadly but it's all about selfish (state) interests, not human rights at all. Nothing new.
Drone strike a wedding party. Final offer
Colonize the land in the name of oil /s
It depends. What are you willing to sacrifice to get something done?
Mind their business. Hard truth.
Horror from those of us who aren’t going to get stoned to death.
Terror from those who are.
Important to understand the distinction between these emotions.
Well, 20 years and what have we learned:
If you invade a nation with no solid national identity that prefers tribal identity, you're going to have to stay to build that national identity.
To build that national identity you'll need to stay until a whole generation has gone through the new way of life you have made: born, went to school, got a job, got married, had some kids, grew old, and died. The new way of life needs to be the only way of life in living memory.
So you're talking about a minimum of 100 years of occupation.
If you pull out too soon because back home the appetite for a foreign deployment has wained, don't get surprised when the old way comes back.
Guerrilla fighting is super effective in the long run.
Great post. I'll just quibble with one word. It took 20 years to re-learn what most of our ancestors knew well. It isn't enough to occupy a country. If you want to replace an ancient tribal culture, you have to remove that culture's elites, colonize and farm the land with your own citizens more or less permanently, put down any resistance violently, and then support the colony until it finally assimilates the existing population or is assimilated by it. All of the ancient empires did that when they could, Europe did it during the age of colonization where feasible. The Arabs did it during the Islamic conquest. China has done it throughout their long history. Russia is the largest country on Earth because it colonized all of the indigenous cultures from the Ural Mountains to the Pacific Ocean during the conquest of Siberia. The Soviet Empire tried to do it to Eastern Europe too with their Russification programs, but weren't able to stay long enough because the Soviet Empire was destroyed after only 45 years.
The US was never going to colonize Afghanistan. It was folly to believe that Afghanistan was going to adopt western values in a mere 20 years of occupation.
That sounds like you announcing you cured HIV by simply shooting the infected. It might be true in one sense but even if that worked the cure is worse than the disease.
I really don't want any country involved in genocide
Well I mean, that's an effective cure, though just make sure to incinerate the remains so the virus has less chances to survive. /S
Yeah god definitely waited until 1400 years ago to give out the -real- rules, and this made the list?
Fuck these guys. Bunch of cowards.
'The international community won't hold them accountable' - Maybe for years under friendly occupation and support you should have held them accountable. I don't believe for a second your husbands and sons have no involvement in the country's culture. You effectively had years to erase the taliban and you collectively enabled them to fight the Americans instead. Anyone still in Afghanistan after all these years should not be having any surprise with the way things are going.
The international community is busy making sure hamas can create exactly the same brutality in Palestine,
Traditional values
And exactly what form of even potentially effective action are they expecting?
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What a world. Where something funny like that could be so close to being truth to life far from a sarcastic joke. We gotta do something about human rights to straighten up his ship. We need abortion and women's rights back. We need religion out of schools and government offices. We need kids to get fed well and be available for free and open education. We need software to be opensource for technology to thrive and begin bearing fruit.
But we're just so far from any of that it feels defeating.
Just because no one holds you accountable for doing it, how can you justify being sick and evil enough to want to flog or stone somebody. What is going on with these middle eastern assholes?? Is it something in the water they drink or the food they eat that turns these bigoted males into such flagrantly mentally abberant pieces of utter walking dog shit??
Well, my advice is, if you're a middle-eastern woman, arm yourself any way you can and strike first. Throw the first stone, you might just crush the worthless skull of one of these misogynistic women-hating anti-human pieces of maggot infested filth, and do the world an immense favor.
Do you actually think that? That an Afghan woman arming herself with rocks world have a good outcome? Just seems like a really, really dumb thing to say.
I expect that kind of reply from a woman-hating and self-hating person like you. So, I don't really value your opinion very much.
Epic burn.
It's a few thousand years of the most regressive patriarchal pastoralist bullshit going on. It's the culture and the religion, they go together. And I'm not referring just to Islam.
Do you think the West is that far off?
Is that a joke?
Yes totally different. I have never once heard any politician in my country invoke the Bible in discussion about policy.
Edit: https://lemmy.world/post/13720085?scrollToComments=true
Degree matters though right? A dog turd on a pavement not the same as an overflowing latrine cesspit.
Well sure. There is a reason why people die from lung cancer in the tens of thousands cause of smoking while almost no one dies of botulism. If something is only a little bit bad it sticks around if something is very bad it doesn't. And no surprise the little bad thing ends up killing more than the very bad thing.
I don't understand what you are actually trying to say. In your response above, I think you are saying that there is no difference between the Taliban adopting an official stoning state policy and religious conservatives pushing regressive policies in bourgeois democracies. I responded to that saying that well there is a difference, that of degree. Now you are responding by saying that that difference does exist but also the less brutal thing is more dangerous. I am confused.
Degree does matter and counterintuitively sometimes something that is less bad at any given point in time is more bad over a long enough timescale.
Botulism is so bad that no one consumes it. Smoking is just a little bit bad each puff. Smoking ends up killing far more.
What the Taliban is doing is so bad that they are going to burn themselves out. What Christianity does is a little bad. Over enough time the little bad adds up to the worse. The Taliban killed around 6,000 people in New York City, Bush and his evangelical friends crusade killed about a million in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Same goes for abortion. Which is going to end up killing more women (keep in mind the population size difference) over the next 40 years the Taliban stoning a few or the Christians causing woman to die is pregnancy complications?
Your analogy with smoking makes no sense because botulism is not a more severe case of smoking. On the other hand, when it comes to legal and institutional sexism, the Taliban also have erected huge barriers to abortion: they are a more extreme version of the same phenomenon. They are doing the same shit Christo-fascists do but also more, like the stonings. Your claim that they are going to burn themselves out is wishful thinking. Like, I share the wish, but I don't think it's as sure a thing as you make it out to be
As shitty as that is,
Hit me up when women can sue men there. IIRC, they can’t even attend school…
Y’all aren’t actually this stupid but it sure makes you look silly claiming these are the same things.
Yes
We're trying!
No I'm not saying the West is much better, but at least here we treat women with the same dignity as men. We spit on all of them, but at least we TRY to say we treat men and women equally.
No the situation is not much better anywhere in the world.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The Taliban’s announcement that it is resuming publicly stoning women to death has been enabled by the international community’s silence, human rights groups have said.
The Taliban’s supreme leader, Hibatullah Akhundzada, announced at the weekend that the group would begin enforcing its interpretation of sharia law in Afghanistan, including reintroducing the public flogging and stoning of women for adultery.
In an audio broadcast on the Taliban-controlled Radio Television Afghanistan last Saturday, Akhundzada said: “We will flog the women … we will stone them to death in public [for adultery].
Sahar Fetrat, an Afghan researcher at Human Rights Watch, said: “Two years ago, they didn’t have the courage they have today to vow stoning women to death in public; now they do.
Since taking power, in August 2021, the Taliban has dissolved the western-backed constitution of Afghanistan and suspended existing criminal and penal codes, replacing them with their rigid and fundamentalist interpretation of sharia law.
In the past year alone, Taliban-appointed judges ordered 417 public floggings and executions, according to Afghan Witness, a research group monitoring human rights in Afghanistan.
The original article contains 568 words, the summary contains 179 words. Saved 68%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
wow who would have thought
Not my circus, not my monkeys.
And anyone who's surprised by this is an idiot.