Are moderators just purely altruistic? Or do they have an ulterior motive?
There's a middle ground between being altruistic and having an ulterior motive:
You want the community you're willing to moderate to not be filled with crap because you personally like it better when it's not filled with crap.
Kind of similar to how most people clean their home primarily because they don't like living in filth rather than to benefit society.
And some people have Opinions™ about where forks and spoons go in the cutlery drawer and where to put sporks and get annoyed at their flatmates when they blindly grab from where they expect the forks to be and end up with a spoon in their hand instead.
I have an opinion on this - the order in the drawer is: knives, forks, spoons.
(I will take my spork-organising advice from t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m!!!!!)
Also, big spoons, then little spoons. Not together in the same slot, you monsters!
... so you're telling me I need five slots for spoons?
I'm a monster who separates only the tablespoon into a separate compartment.
Wait, you have a coffee spoon and a tea spoon? Fair enough, you're not a monster, you're just weirdly anal about spoons. I'm not criticizing. I'm being weirdly anal about silverware placement.
There are two more spoons I lack in this collection. But no, I just like this series as it's semi-retro, and I thrift it at second hand stores and at auction sites.
I was joking otherwise, just wanted to throw my punch in this discussion. :D
I just didn't even know there was such a thing as a coffee spoon!
Jesus Christ
Hold on I need to check with the wife if neat spoons are something we're allowed to invite people into the relationship over but I'm sure it's okay
Although, I have to admit I keep these in three separate slots.
I can't live in this kind of chaos! It's like the last days of Rome
Omg, I just found out there are two more forks I don’t have! Going to waste a month tracking them down…
(Ignore me, this reignited my sometimes-pastime of completing my cutlery, just wanted to share some of my joy.)
These are great, the long ass skinny one is my favorite lol. But why is there a fork specifically for pickled herring? And who uses a fork for a sandwich??
The long ass skinny one is great for pickle jars on the dining table. We love pickles.
The herring one, well, it’s called “sillgaffel” in Swedish. We do use it when we eat pickled herring, but also for olives and other small delicacies served in small bowls instead of using tooth picks to pick them out.
The “sandwich” one is accompanied by a “sandwich” knife, and are intended to be used for appetizers, and according to an older friend, single sandwiches with ham and (sometimes melted) cheese would be served as appetizers occasionally.
There are dessert forks as well, but they are rare. There are proper crustacean forks too that I would like, as they’d be useful.
There also are supposed to exist fish forks (and fish knives) in the series as well, but I kind of stop before that.
Thank you for subscribing to obscure Swedish cutlery facts. Reply with NOOOOO STOOOOOP! to unsubscribe.
I hope you have named these forks after Muppets.
From left to right, they are clear to me as: Robin the Frog, Kermit, Bunsen Honeydew, and Beaker.
I would probably have some kind of breakdown if I opened the drawer to find total anarchy like that.
TTRPG enthusiast u/trouser_mouse, omg. (sometimes I get mistaken for you) Is it true that you once painstakingly arranged hundreds of aluminum sporks inside your trousers and set half a dozen mice loose as an experiment to create a makeshift automatic xylophone?
Yes, it is! I can't believe you know that!
It was a very complex process, fraught with danger because of both the sporks and the half dozen mice. To be honest, I didn't really think it through - but then isn't that how all the best inventions involving mice and/or sporks happen.
The mice despite my best efforts have actually been breeding, so the descendants of the original mice are currently preparing to play Barbie Girl by Aqua for the premier of Barbie on July 21, 2023.
Have you bought tickets for yourself and all of your mice yet?
Yes we all have tickets! One of the mice said they hope to be on the soundtrack for the squeakel
Yay
I clean my home because we have guests over often and I don't want them to hate me
Well said. I think this idea we all have that altruism and self interest are mutually exclusive, is wrong.
In reality, when we're in a community, what benefits the community and what benefits us, are often the same thing.
Beautifully said.
This is exactly it.
I volunteered for several subs because I didn't like all the junk I was seeing and wanted to clean it up.
And now I'm starting some communities here on Lemmy because I'd like to enjoy similar content without going to that other platform.
Yep, I'm usually not a moderator, but occasionally if they are being asked for and the community I'm part of is turning to shit, I'll step up.
Sometimes it's reluctance tinged duty. Like "I really like this community, it's well moderated and the current mod team are pretty balanced in their decisions. Except they've said they're struggling with the load. Oh no, if it becomes too arduous, we'll start losing mods and then we're at risk of losing the culture we've built up here if newer mods have different priorities.
Sometimes chipping in as a mod is the lazy option when the alternative is a worse browsing experience (or finding a new place when a community goes to hell)
Like you say, it's a misplaced between altruism and my own motives
(Unless it is well-crafted and beautiful crap)
This especially holds true for niche subjects. I love back country skiing so I created and moderate /c/Backcountry . The mirror community on Reddit is extremely small and dumb crypto spam sits around for days before removal because there is only one mod. He seems like a cool person dedicated to the sport, but he just can't be there all the time. I created the community in the hopes that I can invite and keep a larger mod team.
I think it's similar to politics. Some people want to use privileges that the position provides for their own benefit, while others want to do good things and bring their ideas to life.
I think most mods start out as the latter, but a few will turn into the former. Nearly all mods are fine, just a few power-hungry ones ruin it for everyone. At least with lemmy it's easy to spin up your own instance and start new communities.
Most unpaid moderators across the entire Internet do so because they have a higher than average interest in the community and want to help keep it running well. You will find some who want to spin a narrative, and some who just want to see a number go up, and some that want to troll their community, and even a small amount who actually are paid shills - but all of these groups put together is but a tiny fraction of all moderators. They're just usually the most noticeable and so color your perception the most. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, shitty mod gets the public's attention.
As a moderator, i find it satisfying to clean my little corner of the internet.
We all see spam an scams when we use social media, and there's not much that you can do about it, maybe report it to admins if you have a minute. For the most part, you're powerless.
But on my fenced area of the internet, i actually get to do something about it. If your bot reposts content on r/shittyfoodporn to farm karma, i will pluck it out like a snail from my salad and kill it. Removing bad content is as satisfying as popping a pimple, it gives me the same joy as a retired dad meticulously cleaning his garden.
The less enjoyable part is when i have to interfere with the users themselves. Mildly saucy fanart will get posted to r/zootopia and i have to decide if it's over or under the line, and it feels bad to remove a post that somebody legitimately just wanted to share.
I do it in our (largish) discord server because, quite frankly, the trash won't take itself out, and I like the community we have cultivated. Everyone wants a well moderated community, where people use the right channels for what theyre named, and don't come into other channels and start spamming Nwords and other slurs. Everyone wants an unbiased moderation staff that follows a set of their own rules so people don't get banned unfairly. And in my eyes that's what we do. (I wont speak for other places on discord, just us) I like to be part of the group keeping chat clean for others to find people to play with. I enjoy talking to users and the conversations happening, so why not give a little time back to keep it that way?
I moderated on Reddit for years. It was a subreddit that’d been an immense help for me at a vulnerable point in my life and I wanted to give back and ensure it remained a safe space. From there I branched out into communities dedicated to other things I cared about. I think it’s often altruistic, an act of love for something. But also it’s often self destructive and addictive. You feel you’re needed. And you are, it’s a thankless job that depending on the community can get you regularly threatened and told to kill yourself. But also you need to have a life and not make it into an escape or a cause to martyr yourself
As long as some company doesn't benefit financially, even a little bit, from me doing free work then I don't really mind. I just wanted to see a community on a subject I am interested in grow. If it gets too big or too much work I will need to find new moderators and may step down altogether. It doesn't seem like that will happen any time soon.
So basically I am already here browsing and it isn't really that much of an inconvenience to click a few extra buttons on occasion to keep a community clean.
.
I think it's like taking the trash out, someone's gotta do it. Thankfully I don't have to but I would if a community I was super into needed it.
I haven't been a mod, but I volunteered for Transcribers of Reddit. For me, it was about having something to do that's not entirely a waste of time. So I'd call that egoistic altruism.
I think there are a lot of reasons.
Some people perhaps find they enjoy being able to control large communities - there are definitely some "power mod" users forming here on Lemmy and I don't know that it is clear why or what that will look like going forward.
I don't think being a mod is always about having bad motives. I look after a community for a table top role playing game across Discord, Reddit, and here - the community isn't huge but isn't insignificant (expect here where there is no activity at all, the main hub is Discord). I recruited a team of mods to help with that, particularly Discord. Not to speak for them, but it's people who enjoy being around the community and being a part of it. Nothing selfish or power-hungry about it - it is simply for the love of supporting a community you come to love and helping to make sure it continues to be a space the people using it want to be a part of. I set up the community because I enjoy the game, there wasn't one already, and I didn't want to clutter up other spaces talking about it. People joined and more importantly stayed because they enjoy the people and the space.
I think a test is when there are issues, or when you decide it is time to move on - are you happy to pass the community on to others who would like to look after it, or do you not do that and lock it down or get rid of it entirely. That feels incredibly selfish, and speaks to your reasons I think; whereas if you are happy to pass the torch because you care about the community which has formed in the space more than whatever you get out of doing the job, it is probably more likely you are doing the job altruistically and because you care.
I'm sure the above isn't always the case and there are so many reasons and scenarios, just my thoughts at the moment :)
@CaspianXI I've always been of the opinion that if something you want doesn't exist, go and do it yourself. That's why I've modded and continued to do so-- things don't just happen on their own.
I know there are some power trippers that just like to be the boss of things, but I'm assuming most are like me, who just want a happy and functional community to exist and thrive.
Beat me by fifteen minutes, lol. I was going to type something very similar.
Moderators should feel responsible for providing a safe space and enjoyable experience for the visitors and subscribers of their community. It's ungrateful work, but someone has to do it. Power trippers who just want to be in charge of something are rarely good mods.
I've modded and ran communities on and off since the 90s. I do it because I enjoy giving back in my own way and creating a place people enjoy to be. Really is altruistic, I started because a forum i was on the owner no longer had the time and the other option was for the site to go down, never really looked back. Being in the industry, running another server and checking in on posts in a topic I am interested in is usually a light extra load.
I operate in highly topical spaces so moderation is easier and setup correctly it just takes care of itself mostly. I do not envy the people who take on the task of trying to moderate general open post areas. OffTopic and Gen Discussion are always the biggest sources of forum drama.
I'm seeing spam start to show up here and looking for ways to help stop that.
I started a community on kbin because there wasn't really one there with the same kind of content that I wanted to see for this particular topic.
I've never really been a moderator before, but I'm excited by the fediverse and want to help grow it, so I thought I'd at least try.
Exactly, there doesn't have to be any deeper meaning behind it. The community does not exist yet, so you make one. I don't see a difference between a moderator and any other user of a community as long as it is small. Perhaps you have to delete a bot post occasionally, or check if there are any technical difficulties. When a community has a lot of people in it, it's probably a lot more work because you have to look out for trolls and evil people. :O
You have the best screen name!
I love comments like yours that make me take a moment to look back and appreciate something I would have otherwise skimmed over
Aww thank you! Your name is... interesting as well. (゜∇ ゜)
Why, thank you very much!
This is also my case. Was never a moderator of anything, but felt responsible for providing a place where the community I participated on in Reddit could continue here, so I took on the challenge.
I just created a community here on the Fediverse/Lemmy that I enjoyed on Reddit . So now I'm a mod of it, nothing altruistic or ulterior about it, probably more egotistical.
I'm a glass-half-empty person. My views of a situation tend toward the negative so to me, the desire to be a mod stems from the enjoyment of saying "That's not allowed!"
I know there are those who want to keep a community safe and assure the policies are enforced but if it means they get to swat someone's nose and say "No, bad member", all the better.
Power fantasies, of course.
Personally, I created two communities here that I frequented on /r, /m/Amex and /m/Signal because I wanted to help build kbin up overall, and give a home to those that migrated. Full disclosure, I will eventually step back from moderating once those communities grow and become self-sufficient with additional moderators joining in.
Each person has one's own reasons, I guess. And they might change and evolve over time. That's what happened with me.
Moderating a forum years and years ago, it was about contributing and "making my part", as if I had a moral duty to pay back to the community that I enjoyed. Then in Reddit it was about helping a small community to stay alive, when most mods were MIA and the only one who wasn't was [likely] overburdened; I feared that the community would end "banned as unmoderated" and/or taken over by a specific powermod. Then now in Lemmy it's about creating spaces to discuss things that I enjoy.
In none of those cases I'd say that I was/am being altruistic - I'm motivated by my own wants. But if other people benefit from it, so be it.
For some perhaps there's also the feeling of power (all hail the almighty janny). Others might get off-record monetary incentives to do it. Others might be genuinely altruistic, unlike me. Who knows.
Sometimes, it's about the perception of power, but these people tend to make the worst sorts of moderators. Sometimes, it's about wanting to steer a community in a certain direction or to stabilise a community in the direction it's already going in. As for me, I've gone through the first two, plus had a third path - I was effectively deputised as a moderator twice as a spam-catcher.
Regardless of the other stuff, deputy spam catcher is and extremely valuable contribution to the community. I have requested this of people on Lemmy and been pleasantly surprised by how willing people are to help.
That’s a good question. I think, kinda like politics in real life, the people that would make the best moderators are the ones that have very little desire to do it while often times the ones that do want it are the worst suited.
Someone once made me a moderator of a ~30,000 subscriber subreddit without me asking and I hated every second of it. All I ever tried to do make the place as good as possible and enforce the rules in place. I got praised for being a good mod, but just as often I got called a power tripping asshole by people who didn’t want to follow the rules. You really can’t win, and honestly I wouldn’t want to even try to moderate again. It takes up too much of your time, you get almost nothing from it and even when all you are doing is trying to do your best, you still end up being hated by some people. It’s just not worth the hassle.
Very different reasons.
I was a mod because I reworked the CSS there and then just stuck around moderating the community a bit as most of the people who volunteered as most kinda lost interest after a few months and even weeks. I personally never wanted to be a mod just to be a mod.
Some do it to help the community, some want to shape the community, some do it because they like the tiny feeling of power and some all or some of these.
"Only aim to do your duty, and mankind will give you credit where you fail." 🫡
I recently offered to mod and the 3 other mods seem to have the same feeling... it needed to be done and we want the community to thrive... I'll let ya know when the power gets to my head though
I'm a light handed mod for a Facebook group of about 2,000 people. If I didn't do that it'd either have to go private or it would be overrun with spam. I care about my community and giving everyone a fair go, so that's why I do it.
I would imagine being a mod on a fediverse community would be much the same.
I've been a mod on a game subReddit. Mostly because there was only one active mod before and they couldn't handle it all. Game wasn't particularly universally loved so general internet hate and Reddit hivemind hate often spilled over into it. Why I did it? Because I enjoyed talking about that game in a positive environment.
In all honesty: the negative vibes on Reddit towards moderators took a lot of the joy out of it. Imagine temp banning someone because they keep calling racist slurs towards other users, then perma banning them because they continue, and then they start making new accounts over and over to send hateful messages towards you. Then you browse some Reddit for your own leisure only to read the general consensus that all mods are powerhungry faggots.
End result was worth it though, I guess? Sub is in a good place now. Positive vibes, and little bullshit. No longer an active mod though, because without RIF I don't have to proper tools to keep moderating from phone. Can't even enjoy it the way I used though. Bitter? Slightly. But I have good hopes about my new online social environment here.
I've met power hungry asshole mods. I'm sure I've met plenty of great ones, but you don't realize they're mods because they don't behave like idiots and are just normal users that are nice enough to interact with. I guess the people who generalized mods are mainly the ones that get banned rightfully.
When people complain about certain roles like moderators and project managers they always focus on thee terrible ones because that is what humans tend to focus on. Those roles wouldn't exist if they weren't necessary to handle large numbers of people interacting, and 99% of the time the people in the roles are fine and everything goes smoothly and nobody really notices.
Unfortunately those roles are attractive to power hungry people and those few are who everyone remembers.
and everything goes smoothly and nobody really notices
Exactly this. In the sub I frequented the most, we had a huge problem with T-shirt scammers and Karma Farming repost bots, but the mods usually nuked those pretty fast. However, since we're all busy adults with limited spare time, the mods can not be online and vigilant 24/7 and occasionally a bot or scammer slipped through the cracks.
I wasn't a mod (didn't want to, TBH) but always openly called these out in addition to reporting them, just to make sure noone clicked on the scam links until an actual mod was able to remove the post. In these situations it happened quite often that people started to argue with me, demanded to know why I thought that "totally harmless guy showing off a cool shirt" was a scammer and the like, simply because THEY had never ever seen a scam attempt in the sub before - as those posts were usually removed pretty quickly ...
Unfortunately those roles are attractive to power hungry people and those few are who everyone remembers.
That's the sad part. I've met more incompetent or power hungry people in management positions than really good ones. They exist, but I've made my peace with those who at least don't keep me from working.
Most of lemmy’s community mods thus far are just passionate pioneers who want to refound their favorite subreddits here and then invite people over and demote interested people to mod to make more entirely-new moderators, if the migrated subs are big ones, then odds are the actual mods for the originals are the powertripping, far-left and probable-chomo type who don’t wanna give up the powertrip they enjoy on reddit for a small refuge that nobody posts on in comparison.
I personally moderated a few on Reddit just because I didn't want them to fill up with porn when it's a femboys hooters sub lol.
ITT: almost noone admits they like they "power" and the replacement of a career which they lack irl. Barely anyone with a demanding career has time for this unpaid shit, especially with family.
I secured some subs to ensure I can powertrip against people on reddit. I dont have time to fully mod them so will get some janitor mods do the work while I can powertrip once in awhile (not main acc)
On Reddit, I think a lot of them monetize it. But generally speaking it’s a rewarding thing to feel like you’re building something greater than yourself.
How does one monetize being a mod?
I want to know this too.
Pretend that you moderate a food subreddit. And people in that sub talk a lot about fries. Specially classical potato fries and the "new" yucca fries. Often with heavy debates, but often just mentions.
Then you have ACME Yucca Inc., a brand of yucca fries, contacts you. And they offer you the following deal: "promote our yucca fries in your sub and we'll give you money." You accept it, and bend the rules of your community to selectively promote yucca fries and ACME over Wonka Potato Co. and potato fries. Stuff like this:
Alice says "eeew, potato fries are disgusting shit, go drink some bleach!". You let Alice do it. And if someone calls you out, you say "Alice is just expressing her opinion!".
Bob says "eeew, yucca fries are awful, you have poor taste." You ban Bob for rudeness. "We snoos shall not stand against this sort of hateful comment!"
Someone posts a bag of ACME yucca fries. You do nothing.
Someone posts a bag of Wonka potato fries. You remove the post as spam then report the poster upstream to the admins, so the poster gets shadowbanned.
Some user posts a rather bad recipe for homemade yucca fries. You let him do it, but then you go on your alt account and say "why bother? Just buy some from ACME"
Some user posts a rather good recipe for homemade potato fries. You remove the post because the submitter missed a comma, or another shitty reason.
That sounds totally fucked up. Thanks for explaining!
It is totally fucked up. And the worst part is that it's damn hard to detect: the individual actions usually sound reasonable, you'll only notice that something is off either when it's too late (the sub circlejerks around yucca fries) or if you somehow know which mod did what, and follow his mod actions across a certain period of time.
Well now I want some of those fries.
On further hindsight, I should've picked another example. Because now I'm craving some yucca fries, too. With bacon, grana/parmesan, chives. And a beer. (They're a common bar snack where I live.)
E.g. you’re the mod of the vacuum cleaner subreddit. A business approaches you offering payment to recommend their vacuum in the wiki of the sub.
I was a mod on reddit for a few years. There was a very small sub for a cartoon/toy line I liked as a kid and the community was shuddered because there was no active mod. I didn't think it would get much traffic and I was right. Once I got it back opened we'd have maybe 6-10 posts a years, mostly toy collections. It was super low effort to me, I had one t-shirt spam I had to remove and a few comments, so it was worth it to have it open again. It'll close when I finally get around to deleting my account
Personally, I would want to be a mod because ooh status and also because I want to make myself useful, do stuff, etc. Basically if I have so much time in my hands that I could help out in an online community.
Idk though, those were my thoughts when I was 13 and now I'm just too lazy to want to be a moderator, and too easily triggered.
Just look at how the reddit protest ended. Once threatened with losing their status as mods, they all caved.
Money and power are powerful motivators, and the mods work for free.
A tremendous amount of mods (myself included) left Reddit permanently. The loss of the folk that take time out of their day to ensure others can have a fun time will be felt, because it left the Just Want Power types in charge.
Control. These people have almost no agency in their lives. They typically don’t work, or if they do, choose low responsibility roles with few demands on them. They also tend to live meagre lives, often living with parents and flat mates. They tend to be socially awkward, often self diagnosing autism and other afflictions. They revel in their victimhood, and choose to construct grand narratives about how their failures are the fault of society, and not them.
Consequently, they have very little control over their lives, and very low self esteem. They seek out control in the only place they will ever experience it: online communities.
You just described trolls.
Projection
So you decided to come here and spit truth?
I used to be a Reddit moderator for a 1M+ sub. That was me. I feel qualified to talk about my experience and that of all the other Reddit moderators I knew.
There's a middle ground between being altruistic and having an ulterior motive:
You want the community you're willing to moderate to not be filled with crap because you personally like it better when it's not filled with crap.
Kind of similar to how most people clean their home primarily because they don't like living in filth rather than to benefit society.
And some people have Opinions™ about where forks and spoons go in the cutlery drawer and where to put sporks and get annoyed at their flatmates when they blindly grab from where they expect the forks to be and end up with a spoon in their hand instead.
I have an opinion on this - the order in the drawer is: knives, forks, spoons.
(I will take my spork-organising advice from t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m!!!!!)
Also, big spoons, then little spoons. Not together in the same slot, you monsters!
... so you're telling me I need five slots for spoons?
::: spoiler spoiler Salt/caviar spoon, coffee spoon, tea spoon, dessert spoon, tablespoon :::
I'm a monster who separates only the tablespoon into a separate compartment.
Wait, you have a coffee spoon and a tea spoon? Fair enough, you're not a monster, you're just weirdly anal about spoons. I'm not criticizing. I'm being weirdly anal about silverware placement.
There are two more spoons I lack in this collection. But no, I just like this series as it's semi-retro, and I thrift it at second hand stores and at auction sites.
I was joking otherwise, just wanted to throw my punch in this discussion. :D
I just didn't even know there was such a thing as a coffee spoon!
Jesus Christ
Hold on I need to check with the wife if neat spoons are something we're allowed to invite people into the relationship over but I'm sure it's okay
How do you feel about forks in the same slot?
::: spoiler spoiler Pickled herring fork, sandwich/dessert fork, table fork, pickle/crustacean fork :::
Although, I have to admit I keep these in three separate slots.
I can't live in this kind of chaos! It's like the last days of Rome
Omg, I just found out there are two more forks I don’t have! Going to waste a month tracking them down… (Ignore me, this reignited my sometimes-pastime of completing my cutlery, just wanted to share some of my joy.)
These are great, the long ass skinny one is my favorite lol. But why is there a fork specifically for pickled herring? And who uses a fork for a sandwich??
The long ass skinny one is great for pickle jars on the dining table. We love pickles.
The herring one, well, it’s called “sillgaffel” in Swedish. We do use it when we eat pickled herring, but also for olives and other small delicacies served in small bowls instead of using tooth picks to pick them out.
The “sandwich” one is accompanied by a “sandwich” knife, and are intended to be used for appetizers, and according to an older friend, single sandwiches with ham and (sometimes melted) cheese would be served as appetizers occasionally.
There are dessert forks as well, but they are rare. There are proper crustacean forks too that I would like, as they’d be useful.
There also are supposed to exist fish forks (and fish knives) in the series as well, but I kind of stop before that.
Thank you for subscribing to obscure Swedish cutlery facts. Reply with NOOOOO STOOOOOP! to unsubscribe.
I hope you have named these forks after Muppets.
From left to right, they are clear to me as: Robin the Frog, Kermit, Bunsen Honeydew, and Beaker.
I would probably have some kind of breakdown if I opened the drawer to find total anarchy like that.
TTRPG enthusiast u/trouser_mouse, omg. (sometimes I get mistaken for you) Is it true that you once painstakingly arranged hundreds of aluminum sporks inside your trousers and set half a dozen mice loose as an experiment to create a makeshift automatic xylophone?
Yes, it is! I can't believe you know that!
It was a very complex process, fraught with danger because of both the sporks and the half dozen mice. To be honest, I didn't really think it through - but then isn't that how all the best inventions involving mice and/or sporks happen.
The mice despite my best efforts have actually been breeding, so the descendants of the original mice are currently preparing to play Barbie Girl by Aqua for the premier of Barbie on July 21, 2023.
This is what it might be like https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fc6AujDe28o (fyi this is not footage from in my pants).
Have you bought tickets for yourself and all of your mice yet?
Yes we all have tickets! One of the mice said they hope to be on the soundtrack for the squeakel
Yay
I clean my home because we have guests over often and I don't want them to hate me
Well said. I think this idea we all have that altruism and self interest are mutually exclusive, is wrong.
In reality, when we're in a community, what benefits the community and what benefits us, are often the same thing.
Beautifully said.
This is exactly it.
I volunteered for several subs because I didn't like all the junk I was seeing and wanted to clean it up.
And now I'm starting some communities here on Lemmy because I'd like to enjoy similar content without going to that other platform.
Yep, I'm usually not a moderator, but occasionally if they are being asked for and the community I'm part of is turning to shit, I'll step up.
Sometimes it's reluctance tinged duty. Like "I really like this community, it's well moderated and the current mod team are pretty balanced in their decisions. Except they've said they're struggling with the load. Oh no, if it becomes too arduous, we'll start losing mods and then we're at risk of losing the culture we've built up here if newer mods have different priorities.
Sometimes chipping in as a mod is the lazy option when the alternative is a worse browsing experience (or finding a new place when a community goes to hell)
Like you say, it's a misplaced between altruism and my own motives
(Unless it is well-crafted and beautiful crap)
This especially holds true for niche subjects. I love back country skiing so I created and moderate /c/Backcountry . The mirror community on Reddit is extremely small and dumb crypto spam sits around for days before removal because there is only one mod. He seems like a cool person dedicated to the sport, but he just can't be there all the time. I created the community in the hopes that I can invite and keep a larger mod team.
I think it's similar to politics. Some people want to use privileges that the position provides for their own benefit, while others want to do good things and bring their ideas to life.
I think most mods start out as the latter, but a few will turn into the former. Nearly all mods are fine, just a few power-hungry ones ruin it for everyone. At least with lemmy it's easy to spin up your own instance and start new communities.
Most unpaid moderators across the entire Internet do so because they have a higher than average interest in the community and want to help keep it running well. You will find some who want to spin a narrative, and some who just want to see a number go up, and some that want to troll their community, and even a small amount who actually are paid shills - but all of these groups put together is but a tiny fraction of all moderators. They're just usually the most noticeable and so color your perception the most. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, shitty mod gets the public's attention.
As a moderator, i find it satisfying to clean my little corner of the internet.
We all see spam an scams when we use social media, and there's not much that you can do about it, maybe report it to admins if you have a minute. For the most part, you're powerless.
But on my fenced area of the internet, i actually get to do something about it. If your bot reposts content on r/shittyfoodporn to farm karma, i will pluck it out like a snail from my salad and kill it. Removing bad content is as satisfying as popping a pimple, it gives me the same joy as a retired dad meticulously cleaning his garden.
The less enjoyable part is when i have to interfere with the users themselves. Mildly saucy fanart will get posted to r/zootopia and i have to decide if it's over or under the line, and it feels bad to remove a post that somebody legitimately just wanted to share.
I do it in our (largish) discord server because, quite frankly, the trash won't take itself out, and I like the community we have cultivated. Everyone wants a well moderated community, where people use the right channels for what theyre named, and don't come into other channels and start spamming Nwords and other slurs. Everyone wants an unbiased moderation staff that follows a set of their own rules so people don't get banned unfairly. And in my eyes that's what we do. (I wont speak for other places on discord, just us) I like to be part of the group keeping chat clean for others to find people to play with. I enjoy talking to users and the conversations happening, so why not give a little time back to keep it that way?
I moderated on Reddit for years. It was a subreddit that’d been an immense help for me at a vulnerable point in my life and I wanted to give back and ensure it remained a safe space. From there I branched out into communities dedicated to other things I cared about. I think it’s often altruistic, an act of love for something. But also it’s often self destructive and addictive. You feel you’re needed. And you are, it’s a thankless job that depending on the community can get you regularly threatened and told to kill yourself. But also you need to have a life and not make it into an escape or a cause to martyr yourself
As long as some company doesn't benefit financially, even a little bit, from me doing free work then I don't really mind. I just wanted to see a community on a subject I am interested in grow. If it gets too big or too much work I will need to find new moderators and may step down altogether. It doesn't seem like that will happen any time soon.
So basically I am already here browsing and it isn't really that much of an inconvenience to click a few extra buttons on occasion to keep a community clean.
.
I think it's like taking the trash out, someone's gotta do it. Thankfully I don't have to but I would if a community I was super into needed it.
I haven't been a mod, but I volunteered for Transcribers of Reddit. For me, it was about having something to do that's not entirely a waste of time. So I'd call that egoistic altruism.
I think there are a lot of reasons.
Some people perhaps find they enjoy being able to control large communities - there are definitely some "power mod" users forming here on Lemmy and I don't know that it is clear why or what that will look like going forward.
I don't think being a mod is always about having bad motives. I look after a community for a table top role playing game across Discord, Reddit, and here - the community isn't huge but isn't insignificant (expect here where there is no activity at all, the main hub is Discord). I recruited a team of mods to help with that, particularly Discord. Not to speak for them, but it's people who enjoy being around the community and being a part of it. Nothing selfish or power-hungry about it - it is simply for the love of supporting a community you come to love and helping to make sure it continues to be a space the people using it want to be a part of. I set up the community because I enjoy the game, there wasn't one already, and I didn't want to clutter up other spaces talking about it. People joined and more importantly stayed because they enjoy the people and the space.
I think a test is when there are issues, or when you decide it is time to move on - are you happy to pass the community on to others who would like to look after it, or do you not do that and lock it down or get rid of it entirely. That feels incredibly selfish, and speaks to your reasons I think; whereas if you are happy to pass the torch because you care about the community which has formed in the space more than whatever you get out of doing the job, it is probably more likely you are doing the job altruistically and because you care.
I'm sure the above isn't always the case and there are so many reasons and scenarios, just my thoughts at the moment :)
@CaspianXI I've always been of the opinion that if something you want doesn't exist, go and do it yourself. That's why I've modded and continued to do so-- things don't just happen on their own.
I know there are some power trippers that just like to be the boss of things, but I'm assuming most are like me, who just want a happy and functional community to exist and thrive.
Beat me by fifteen minutes, lol. I was going to type something very similar.
Moderators should feel responsible for providing a safe space and enjoyable experience for the visitors and subscribers of their community. It's ungrateful work, but someone has to do it. Power trippers who just want to be in charge of something are rarely good mods.
I've modded and ran communities on and off since the 90s. I do it because I enjoy giving back in my own way and creating a place people enjoy to be. Really is altruistic, I started because a forum i was on the owner no longer had the time and the other option was for the site to go down, never really looked back. Being in the industry, running another server and checking in on posts in a topic I am interested in is usually a light extra load.
I operate in highly topical spaces so moderation is easier and setup correctly it just takes care of itself mostly. I do not envy the people who take on the task of trying to moderate general open post areas. OffTopic and Gen Discussion are always the biggest sources of forum drama.
I'm seeing spam start to show up here and looking for ways to help stop that.
I started a community on kbin because there wasn't really one there with the same kind of content that I wanted to see for this particular topic.
I've never really been a moderator before, but I'm excited by the fediverse and want to help grow it, so I thought I'd at least try.
Exactly, there doesn't have to be any deeper meaning behind it. The community does not exist yet, so you make one. I don't see a difference between a moderator and any other user of a community as long as it is small. Perhaps you have to delete a bot post occasionally, or check if there are any technical difficulties. When a community has a lot of people in it, it's probably a lot more work because you have to look out for trolls and evil people. :O
You have the best screen name!
I love comments like yours that make me take a moment to look back and appreciate something I would have otherwise skimmed over
Aww thank you! Your name is... interesting as well. (゜∇ ゜)
Why, thank you very much!
This is also my case. Was never a moderator of anything, but felt responsible for providing a place where the community I participated on in Reddit could continue here, so I took on the challenge.
I just created a community here on the Fediverse/Lemmy that I enjoyed on Reddit . So now I'm a mod of it, nothing altruistic or ulterior about it, probably more egotistical.
I'm a glass-half-empty person. My views of a situation tend toward the negative so to me, the desire to be a mod stems from the enjoyment of saying "That's not allowed!"
I know there are those who want to keep a community safe and assure the policies are enforced but if it means they get to swat someone's nose and say "No, bad member", all the better.
Power fantasies, of course.
Personally, I created two communities here that I frequented on /r, /m/Amex and /m/Signal because I wanted to help build kbin up overall, and give a home to those that migrated. Full disclosure, I will eventually step back from moderating once those communities grow and become self-sufficient with additional moderators joining in.
Each person has one's own reasons, I guess. And they might change and evolve over time. That's what happened with me.
Moderating a forum years and years ago, it was about contributing and "making my part", as if I had a moral duty to pay back to the community that I enjoyed. Then in Reddit it was about helping a small community to stay alive, when most mods were MIA and the only one who wasn't was [likely] overburdened; I feared that the community would end "banned as unmoderated" and/or taken over by a specific powermod. Then now in Lemmy it's about creating spaces to discuss things that I enjoy.
In none of those cases I'd say that I was/am being altruistic - I'm motivated by my own wants. But if other people benefit from it, so be it.
For some perhaps there's also the feeling of power (all hail the almighty janny). Others might get off-record monetary incentives to do it. Others might be genuinely altruistic, unlike me. Who knows.
Sometimes, it's about the perception of power, but these people tend to make the worst sorts of moderators. Sometimes, it's about wanting to steer a community in a certain direction or to stabilise a community in the direction it's already going in. As for me, I've gone through the first two, plus had a third path - I was effectively deputised as a moderator twice as a spam-catcher.
Regardless of the other stuff, deputy spam catcher is and extremely valuable contribution to the community. I have requested this of people on Lemmy and been pleasantly surprised by how willing people are to help.
That’s a good question. I think, kinda like politics in real life, the people that would make the best moderators are the ones that have very little desire to do it while often times the ones that do want it are the worst suited.
Someone once made me a moderator of a ~30,000 subscriber subreddit without me asking and I hated every second of it. All I ever tried to do make the place as good as possible and enforce the rules in place. I got praised for being a good mod, but just as often I got called a power tripping asshole by people who didn’t want to follow the rules. You really can’t win, and honestly I wouldn’t want to even try to moderate again. It takes up too much of your time, you get almost nothing from it and even when all you are doing is trying to do your best, you still end up being hated by some people. It’s just not worth the hassle.
Very different reasons.
I was a mod because I reworked the CSS there and then just stuck around moderating the community a bit as most of the people who volunteered as most kinda lost interest after a few months and even weeks. I personally never wanted to be a mod just to be a mod.
Some do it to help the community, some want to shape the community, some do it because they like the tiny feeling of power and some all or some of these.
"Only aim to do your duty, and mankind will give you credit where you fail." 🫡
I recently offered to mod and the 3 other mods seem to have the same feeling... it needed to be done and we want the community to thrive... I'll let ya know when the power gets to my head though
I'm a light handed mod for a Facebook group of about 2,000 people. If I didn't do that it'd either have to go private or it would be overrun with spam. I care about my community and giving everyone a fair go, so that's why I do it.
I would imagine being a mod on a fediverse community would be much the same.
HE DOES IT FOR FREE (as in free beer)
lmao clean it jannies.
I've been a mod on a game subReddit. Mostly because there was only one active mod before and they couldn't handle it all. Game wasn't particularly universally loved so general internet hate and Reddit hivemind hate often spilled over into it. Why I did it? Because I enjoyed talking about that game in a positive environment.
In all honesty: the negative vibes on Reddit towards moderators took a lot of the joy out of it. Imagine temp banning someone because they keep calling racist slurs towards other users, then perma banning them because they continue, and then they start making new accounts over and over to send hateful messages towards you. Then you browse some Reddit for your own leisure only to read the general consensus that all mods are powerhungry faggots.
End result was worth it though, I guess? Sub is in a good place now. Positive vibes, and little bullshit. No longer an active mod though, because without RIF I don't have to proper tools to keep moderating from phone. Can't even enjoy it the way I used though. Bitter? Slightly. But I have good hopes about my new online social environment here.
I've met power hungry asshole mods. I'm sure I've met plenty of great ones, but you don't realize they're mods because they don't behave like idiots and are just normal users that are nice enough to interact with. I guess the people who generalized mods are mainly the ones that get banned rightfully.
When people complain about certain roles like moderators and project managers they always focus on thee terrible ones because that is what humans tend to focus on. Those roles wouldn't exist if they weren't necessary to handle large numbers of people interacting, and 99% of the time the people in the roles are fine and everything goes smoothly and nobody really notices.
Unfortunately those roles are attractive to power hungry people and those few are who everyone remembers.
Exactly this. In the sub I frequented the most, we had a huge problem with T-shirt scammers and Karma Farming repost bots, but the mods usually nuked those pretty fast. However, since we're all busy adults with limited spare time, the mods can not be online and vigilant 24/7 and occasionally a bot or scammer slipped through the cracks.
I wasn't a mod (didn't want to, TBH) but always openly called these out in addition to reporting them, just to make sure noone clicked on the scam links until an actual mod was able to remove the post. In these situations it happened quite often that people started to argue with me, demanded to know why I thought that "totally harmless guy showing off a cool shirt" was a scammer and the like, simply because THEY had never ever seen a scam attempt in the sub before - as those posts were usually removed pretty quickly ...
That's the sad part. I've met more incompetent or power hungry people in management positions than really good ones. They exist, but I've made my peace with those who at least don't keep me from working.
Most of lemmy’s community mods thus far are just passionate pioneers who want to refound their favorite subreddits here and then invite people over and demote interested people to mod to make more entirely-new moderators, if the migrated subs are big ones, then odds are the actual mods for the originals are the powertripping, far-left and probable-chomo type who don’t wanna give up the powertrip they enjoy on reddit for a small refuge that nobody posts on in comparison.
I personally moderated a few on Reddit just because I didn't want them to fill up with porn when it's a femboys hooters sub lol.
ITT: almost noone admits they like they "power" and the replacement of a career which they lack irl. Barely anyone with a demanding career has time for this unpaid shit, especially with family.
I secured some subs to ensure I can powertrip against people on reddit. I dont have time to fully mod them so will get some janitor mods do the work while I can powertrip once in awhile (not main acc)
On Reddit, I think a lot of them monetize it. But generally speaking it’s a rewarding thing to feel like you’re building something greater than yourself.
How does one monetize being a mod?
I want to know this too.
Pretend that you moderate a food subreddit. And people in that sub talk a lot about fries. Specially classical potato fries and the "new" yucca fries. Often with heavy debates, but often just mentions.
Then you have ACME Yucca Inc., a brand of yucca fries, contacts you. And they offer you the following deal: "promote our yucca fries in your sub and we'll give you money." You accept it, and bend the rules of your community to selectively promote yucca fries and ACME over Wonka Potato Co. and potato fries. Stuff like this:
That sounds totally fucked up. Thanks for explaining!
It is totally fucked up. And the worst part is that it's damn hard to detect: the individual actions usually sound reasonable, you'll only notice that something is off either when it's too late (the sub circlejerks around yucca fries) or if you somehow know which mod did what, and follow his mod actions across a certain period of time.
Well now I want some of those fries.
On further hindsight, I should've picked another example. Because now I'm craving some yucca fries, too. With bacon, grana/parmesan, chives. And a beer. (They're a common bar snack where I live.)
E.g. you’re the mod of the vacuum cleaner subreddit. A business approaches you offering payment to recommend their vacuum in the wiki of the sub.
Lack of social skills, mixed with little to no control of things in their personal life.
Yes.
It's all for your own good, dumpling...
I was a mod on reddit for a few years. There was a very small sub for a cartoon/toy line I liked as a kid and the community was shuddered because there was no active mod. I didn't think it would get much traffic and I was right. Once I got it back opened we'd have maybe 6-10 posts a years, mostly toy collections. It was super low effort to me, I had one t-shirt spam I had to remove and a few comments, so it was worth it to have it open again. It'll close when I finally get around to deleting my account
Personally, I would want to be a mod because ooh status and also because I want to make myself useful, do stuff, etc. Basically if I have so much time in my hands that I could help out in an online community.
Idk though, those were my thoughts when I was 13 and now I'm just too lazy to want to be a moderator, and too easily triggered.
Just look at how the reddit protest ended. Once threatened with losing their status as mods, they all caved.
Money and power are powerful motivators, and the mods work for free.
@skogens_ro
A tremendous amount of mods (myself included) left Reddit permanently. The loss of the folk that take time out of their day to ensure others can have a fun time will be felt, because it left the Just Want Power types in charge.
@CaspianXI
Control. These people have almost no agency in their lives. They typically don’t work, or if they do, choose low responsibility roles with few demands on them. They also tend to live meagre lives, often living with parents and flat mates. They tend to be socially awkward, often self diagnosing autism and other afflictions. They revel in their victimhood, and choose to construct grand narratives about how their failures are the fault of society, and not them.
Consequently, they have very little control over their lives, and very low self esteem. They seek out control in the only place they will ever experience it: online communities.
You just described trolls.
Projection
So you decided to come here and spit truth?
I used to be a Reddit moderator for a 1M+ sub. That was me. I feel qualified to talk about my experience and that of all the other Reddit moderators I knew.