No, because a cow has to be impregnated and their baby is taken away (and either killed (male) or is also going to be a milk cow (female)) just for you having some pleasure.
I get that, which is why I can't wait for lab-grown meat to take off so that I can finally eat the things I enjoy guilt-free. I'll be among the first to buy it the moment it's at the grocery store. Hopefully lab-grown cheese comes next. Vegan "cheez" is awful.
Vegan supermarket cheese is awful, but if you can find a cashew cheese they're really good. My go to are the more upmarket supermarkets.
Myoko is a great brand for all their plant-cheeses.
I agree but vegan cheese/milk just doesn't cut it. I'm vegetarian but until they manage to emulate the taste better I make a concession for cheese.
You don't really miss it after a few months. And maybe it's stockholme syndrome but lately when I get something with vegan "cheese" on it, it hasn't been awful. Last weekend I got a Daiya pizza thinking it was gonna be complete trash and it wasn't horrible actually.
I've heard the best way to to replace cheese (as a vegan or someone going non-diary) is to just not. The vegan cheese substitutes don't taste good if you are used to dairy and cheese in general doesn't really provide much nutrition
Why not make your own? A simple cashew cheese + nooch, is nutritious and taste good.
I'll have to try that one of these days. I still eat cheese on occasion, but have definitely noticed I miss it less the longer I don't eat any
This is actually the route I've been inching towards. I've started getting my veggie burgers with just veggies and will make a slaw for my tacos and I've been missing it less and less. I'm mostly gonna treat it as part of my "vegan junk food" list hopefully going forward.
But like I'll still use nooch for like my pesto and such lol. But my pesto recipe is one of those things where you can't even really tell it's vegan imo.
What's the recipe, if you don't mind sharing? I haven't really tried pesto many times, and when I did they didn't turn out well
I use sunflower seeds instead of pine nuts because I'm not a millionaire. I have made it with a blend of spinach and basil before as well. Spinach is cheaper unless you grow basil or something.
We are growing sunflowers this year so that's perfect. Also spinach. Also basil. I should learn how to make pesto
Imo homemade is better. This makes enough for 2 lbs of pasta and I found it freezes very well so we got 2 while meals out of it last time I made it.
Yeah. I tried the vegan cheeses because you have to have cheese on pizza right? (Violife is the only decent tasting one I've found here that doesn't contain carageenan). Then I tried making pizza without cheese and it's just as good. So now I have cheeseless pizza. The flavour comes from the veg.
Agree. Although a slice of avocado will really be a satisfying alternative to cheese in many situations. Hits that fatty and creamy note. Just no macaroni & guacamole please.
Good point! I just wish they lasted longer. Seems every time I buy avocados I can eat them 1-2 days after or they are rock hard for a week and then when you try one it is already gone bad lol. I must be doing something wrong
Yeah that's kinda how they are.
In other words “I support cruelty against animals because of my taste buds, fully knowing what that animal cruelty contains”
Yes, but you have to draw a line somewhere. The crops you eat have pesticides on, animals are trapped and killed to keep the places you eat and live clean.
yawn
How is anyone going to take you seriously if that's your response to a debate?
My take is that you are not engaging in a serious debate. Competing with “pests” for crop yield is not anywhere on the same level as cultivating an industry with systemic animal abuse.
I'm saying that there are different places that people draw the line on the amount of cruelty and suffering they will allow in order to live their lives. I could also point out the conditions of the people who assemble the devices that were using to have this debate, or the habitats destroyed in the mining of the material required. It's impossible to live in a way where you avoid inflicting some sort of suffering on others and it's all about where you personally find a balance between convinience for you and suffering for others.
Of course. Cause bugs arent as cute as cows, So who gives a fuck about them, right?
I don't understand why vcj types who just express ennui at talking to meat eaters even come into these threads. You're not helping convince people to lay off the cheese by doing this.
Its not about convincing anyone.
its about inflating their imaginary victimization by provoking responses with their stupid comments, So they can go on to cry about the evilbadcruel world and feel ever more justified as they arrogantly huff their own farts
I support cruelty to people who post bait like this, too.
Knowing humans, it's either that or extinction. I think cows did a pretty smart move, evolutionairywise. That said, it is time for change.
The breeds abused for milk are like those dogs which can't breath. What is your stance on dogs who cant breath or run, do we need to breed them to avoid their extinction?
My brain says yes but my bowels say no.
Brain still wins every time. I can handle some discomfort in the future for a mouth full of bliss right now.
a mouth full of bliss right now
Are we still doing phrasing?
I'm right there with you. You might want to try out lactase tablets. As long as you're not snarfing buckets of ice cream you should be good.
is it lactose intolerance?
If so, older cheeses should be fairly safe iirc.
Also, isnt there like an enzyme supplement that helps?
Oh I'm sure it's some form of lactose intolerance. I should probably ask a doctor some day, but decent ones are hard to come by.
Lactase does seem to work if I remember to take it.
Yes.
what is your reason for saying so?
I don't understand this part of the question :P
The answer is yes because the question is cheese..
I really wish there was some ethical way of farming dairy cows, but have come to the conclusion that it just isn't with current methods and knowledge. I have some land and love cows so considered getting one or two for hobby-farming and just so I could have my own "cruelty free" dairy. Here are some things to consider about dairy farming:
Only female cows produce milk.
Female cows only produce milk for a brief period of time after giving birth.
Every single cow requires at least one acre of grazing.
You only need one bull on a dairy farm to provide sperm.
Baby calves want to be near their mothers and will drink their milk.
The only way to fit these pieces together in any economical way is to: (a) forcefully impregnate cows as often as possible, (b) limit the amount of time calves can be with their mothers so they don't drink all the milk, and (c) slaughter male calves for veal. This is cruel no matter how you slice it. If you are born a cow you are taken away from your mother and given food you don't like and isn't as good for you as the milk that was produced specifically for you. If you are unlucky enough to be a female cow you will spend the next several years of your life being forcefully impregnated and having your own children taken away from you every year. If you are a male cow you'll only know life on earth for a short while before being put out of your misery. In the end, regardless of gender or age, you'll be sent into a long line of other confused and panicked cows to be slaughtered for your meat and organs at a factory staffed by strangers in scary masks you've never seen before with the smell of death and terror all around you. There is no such thing as ethical dairy and any company proclaiming otherwise is not being honest with you or themselves.
Edit: I should say that there are better ways of doing most of the steps in dairy farming that aren't as cruel. But unless consumers are okay paying something along the lines of $20 for a gallon of milk, capitalism will never permit those practices to actually happen.
Also wanted to say that I'm not necessarily against animal products. I have chickens. They are as happy as can be and give us delicious eggs every day. I feed them well and treat them like family and they don't mind me taking their eggs. I really don't see an issue with this exchange because there is no cruelty and both parties benefit. There are numerous examples of this with animals and animal products. However, I believe that dairy is one of those cases where there isn't really an ethical solution. Even if you take the unnecessary cruelty out of the process, you are still left with at least a little cruelty. Where do you draw the line?
Yes, because cheese. Lactose intolerance be damned
I don't need cheese, I have nooch!
I love cheese, but it is a rather odd food. Something squirted from a cow that is left sitting around and bacteria grows in it…. great.
Yes, because cheese is delicious. Cheese can go with meat, pasta, bread, fruit, vegetables, wine, beer, fried foods, foods with delicate flavors, and so much more. There's such a large variety of cheeses that it's practically its own food group.
Cheese can also go with soup. Cheese can even be soup. Cheese can be everything you want it to be. ...Cheese can be your girlfriend.
Loved cheese but not having it any more. Not my milk not my cheese. My pleasure can’t come at the expense of another sentient, innocent being, especially not if that involves forced impregnation, being caged up, and having your children be taken almost right away who then often end up being killed because there’s no use.
No to cheese made from bovine mammary secretions, because I try not to participate in animal exploitation anymore.
Yes to plant based cheese, because it's delicious.
How extensive are the varieties? I'm a big fan of lots of cheeses and I'm trying to have less animal products, but I'm only human
I got two of those in my fridge right now, next to le gruyère and a pungent delicious Gamle Ole.
I get the Gamle Ole sent from Europe. One summer the package had been punctured and the cheese had gone angry and stunk up the postal van, my friendly postman looked a bit green in the face.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes, because it tastes good.
Yes, I use jalapeño cream cheese daily for my egg sandwich.
That sounds incredible.
Roast and dice like 3-4 jalapeños per 8oz cream cheese, 1 tbsp of sour cream and maybe a tsp of garlic powder. Salt to taste (I leave it out).
Shits incredible. Try subbed with habaneros for some Fuego.
Absolutely yes. A food that can elevate a dish or be great on its own. More cheese please.
Yes. I love cheese but I try to avoid buying it as it's expensive. Smoked Applewood is lush
Yes..... Melted on anything.......
No, cheese is gross. It ruins perfectly good food, and the few instances of food with cheese that are good can be made better without it.
Yes. All my yes. And an extra "yes" if the cheese in question is Gorgonzola or Emmenthal.
Yes, because it's tasty.
Hmmmmmmmm, casu martzu
Love good aged sharp cheddar
Some cheese is nice, some is cool, some is disgusting, some is straight-up inedible to me.
Cheese for sure. Goat, Sheep, Cow, so many amazing varieties. All utilizing amazing advances in animal husbandry the human race has honed and improved upon for centuries across almost all cultures and all parts of the world.
Depends. I don't really like cheese but it's nice on burger and sandwiches although it depends whoch cheese
Cheese is life. Goat cheese in the summer, a good tartiflette to start the winter and many more
No, because a cow has to be impregnated and their baby is taken away (and either killed (male) or is also going to be a milk cow (female)) just for you having some pleasure.
I get that, which is why I can't wait for lab-grown meat to take off so that I can finally eat the things I enjoy guilt-free. I'll be among the first to buy it the moment it's at the grocery store. Hopefully lab-grown cheese comes next. Vegan "cheez" is awful.
Vegan supermarket cheese is awful, but if you can find a cashew cheese they're really good. My go to are the more upmarket supermarkets.
Myoko is a great brand for all their plant-cheeses.
I agree but vegan cheese/milk just doesn't cut it. I'm vegetarian but until they manage to emulate the taste better I make a concession for cheese.
You don't really miss it after a few months. And maybe it's stockholme syndrome but lately when I get something with vegan "cheese" on it, it hasn't been awful. Last weekend I got a Daiya pizza thinking it was gonna be complete trash and it wasn't horrible actually.
I've heard the best way to to replace cheese (as a vegan or someone going non-diary) is to just not. The vegan cheese substitutes don't taste good if you are used to dairy and cheese in general doesn't really provide much nutrition
Why not make your own? A simple cashew cheese + nooch, is nutritious and taste good.
I'll have to try that one of these days. I still eat cheese on occasion, but have definitely noticed I miss it less the longer I don't eat any
This is actually the route I've been inching towards. I've started getting my veggie burgers with just veggies and will make a slaw for my tacos and I've been missing it less and less. I'm mostly gonna treat it as part of my "vegan junk food" list hopefully going forward.
But like I'll still use nooch for like my pesto and such lol. But my pesto recipe is one of those things where you can't even really tell it's vegan imo.
What's the recipe, if you don't mind sharing? I haven't really tried pesto many times, and when I did they didn't turn out well
I say "my recipe" but I got it from here: https://www.forkintheroad.co/vegan-spinach-pesto/#recipe
I use sunflower seeds instead of pine nuts because I'm not a millionaire. I have made it with a blend of spinach and basil before as well. Spinach is cheaper unless you grow basil or something.
We are growing sunflowers this year so that's perfect. Also spinach. Also basil. I should learn how to make pesto
Imo homemade is better. This makes enough for 2 lbs of pasta and I found it freezes very well so we got 2 while meals out of it last time I made it.
Yeah. I tried the vegan cheeses because you have to have cheese on pizza right? (Violife is the only decent tasting one I've found here that doesn't contain carageenan). Then I tried making pizza without cheese and it's just as good. So now I have cheeseless pizza. The flavour comes from the veg.
Agree. Although a slice of avocado will really be a satisfying alternative to cheese in many situations. Hits that fatty and creamy note. Just no macaroni & guacamole please.
Good point! I just wish they lasted longer. Seems every time I buy avocados I can eat them 1-2 days after or they are rock hard for a week and then when you try one it is already gone bad lol. I must be doing something wrong
Yeah that's kinda how they are.
In other words “I support cruelty against animals because of my taste buds, fully knowing what that animal cruelty contains”
Yes, but you have to draw a line somewhere. The crops you eat have pesticides on, animals are trapped and killed to keep the places you eat and live clean.
yawn
How is anyone going to take you seriously if that's your response to a debate?
My take is that you are not engaging in a serious debate. Competing with “pests” for crop yield is not anywhere on the same level as cultivating an industry with systemic animal abuse.
I'm saying that there are different places that people draw the line on the amount of cruelty and suffering they will allow in order to live their lives. I could also point out the conditions of the people who assemble the devices that were using to have this debate, or the habitats destroyed in the mining of the material required. It's impossible to live in a way where you avoid inflicting some sort of suffering on others and it's all about where you personally find a balance between convinience for you and suffering for others.
Of course. Cause bugs arent as cute as cows, So who gives a fuck about them, right?
I don't understand why vcj types who just express ennui at talking to meat eaters even come into these threads. You're not helping convince people to lay off the cheese by doing this.
Its not about convincing anyone.
its about inflating their imaginary victimization by provoking responses with their stupid comments, So they can go on to cry about the evilbadcruel world and feel ever more justified as they arrogantly huff their own farts
I support cruelty to people who post bait like this, too.
Knowing humans, it's either that or extinction. I think cows did a pretty smart move, evolutionairywise. That said, it is time for change.
The breeds abused for milk are like those dogs which can't breath. What is your stance on dogs who cant breath or run, do we need to breed them to avoid their extinction?
My brain says yes but my bowels say no.
Brain still wins every time. I can handle some discomfort in the future for a mouth full of bliss right now.
Are we still doing phrasing?
I'm right there with you. You might want to try out lactase tablets. As long as you're not snarfing buckets of ice cream you should be good.
is it lactose intolerance?
If so, older cheeses should be fairly safe iirc.
Also, isnt there like an enzyme supplement that helps?
Oh I'm sure it's some form of lactose intolerance. I should probably ask a doctor some day, but decent ones are hard to come by.
Lactase does seem to work if I remember to take it.
Yes.
I don't understand this part of the question :P
The answer is yes because the question is cheese..
I really wish there was some ethical way of farming dairy cows, but have come to the conclusion that it just isn't with current methods and knowledge. I have some land and love cows so considered getting one or two for hobby-farming and just so I could have my own "cruelty free" dairy. Here are some things to consider about dairy farming:
The only way to fit these pieces together in any economical way is to: (a) forcefully impregnate cows as often as possible, (b) limit the amount of time calves can be with their mothers so they don't drink all the milk, and (c) slaughter male calves for veal. This is cruel no matter how you slice it. If you are born a cow you are taken away from your mother and given food you don't like and isn't as good for you as the milk that was produced specifically for you. If you are unlucky enough to be a female cow you will spend the next several years of your life being forcefully impregnated and having your own children taken away from you every year. If you are a male cow you'll only know life on earth for a short while before being put out of your misery. In the end, regardless of gender or age, you'll be sent into a long line of other confused and panicked cows to be slaughtered for your meat and organs at a factory staffed by strangers in scary masks you've never seen before with the smell of death and terror all around you. There is no such thing as ethical dairy and any company proclaiming otherwise is not being honest with you or themselves.
Edit: I should say that there are better ways of doing most of the steps in dairy farming that aren't as cruel. But unless consumers are okay paying something along the lines of $20 for a gallon of milk, capitalism will never permit those practices to actually happen.
Also wanted to say that I'm not necessarily against animal products. I have chickens. They are as happy as can be and give us delicious eggs every day. I feed them well and treat them like family and they don't mind me taking their eggs. I really don't see an issue with this exchange because there is no cruelty and both parties benefit. There are numerous examples of this with animals and animal products. However, I believe that dairy is one of those cases where there isn't really an ethical solution. Even if you take the unnecessary cruelty out of the process, you are still left with at least a little cruelty. Where do you draw the line?
Yes, because cheese. Lactose intolerance be damned
I don't need cheese, I have nooch!
I love cheese, but it is a rather odd food. Something squirted from a cow that is left sitting around and bacteria grows in it…. great.
Yes, because cheese is delicious. Cheese can go with meat, pasta, bread, fruit, vegetables, wine, beer, fried foods, foods with delicate flavors, and so much more. There's such a large variety of cheeses that it's practically its own food group.
Cheese can also go with soup. Cheese can even be soup. Cheese can be everything you want it to be. ...Cheese can be your girlfriend.
Loved cheese but not having it any more. Not my milk not my cheese. My pleasure can’t come at the expense of another sentient, innocent being, especially not if that involves forced impregnation, being caged up, and having your children be taken almost right away who then often end up being killed because there’s no use.
No to cheese made from bovine mammary secretions, because I try not to participate in animal exploitation anymore. Yes to plant based cheese, because it's delicious.
How extensive are the varieties? I'm a big fan of lots of cheeses and I'm trying to have less animal products, but I'm only human
Cheese is one of the best parts of being alive.
Yes, because I like it.
No. I'm having a lemonade.
Yes. Gouda, Brie, Cheddar, Manchego, Meunster, Provolone, Parmesan, Feta, Asagio, Monterey Jack, Stilton, I could go on..
Wensleydale?
Oh fuck yeah boi, you're saying all the right words :D
https://youtu.be/Hz1JWzyvv8A
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/Hz1JWzyvv8A
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
I got two of those in my fridge right now, next to le gruyère and a pungent delicious Gamle Ole.
I get the Gamle Ole sent from Europe. One summer the package had been punctured and the cheese had gone angry and stunk up the postal van, my friendly postman looked a bit green in the face.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes, because it tastes good.
Yes, I use jalapeño cream cheese daily for my egg sandwich.
That sounds incredible.
Roast and dice like 3-4 jalapeños per 8oz cream cheese, 1 tbsp of sour cream and maybe a tsp of garlic powder. Salt to taste (I leave it out).
Shits incredible. Try subbed with habaneros for some Fuego.
Absolutely yes. A food that can elevate a dish or be great on its own. More cheese please.
Yes.
I love cheese.
Yes. Cheese protects against death from any cause.
The real question is, why aren't you eating more cheese?
Because pecorino, parmigiano e gorgonzola are delicious.
i love cheese. i eat parmesan triangles sometimes, rind included
I don’t think I would want to live in a world without cheese.
I love cheese, but it's safe to say that cheese doesn't love me. https://youtu.be/bVKCHZqax84
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/bVKCHZqax84
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Of course.
Yes. I love cheese but I try to avoid buying it as it's expensive. Smoked Applewood is lush
Yes..... Melted on anything.......
No, cheese is gross. It ruins perfectly good food, and the few instances of food with cheese that are good can be made better without it.
Yes. All my yes. And an extra "yes" if the cheese in question is Gorgonzola or Emmenthal.
Yes, because it's tasty.
Hmmmmmmmm, casu martzu
Love good aged sharp cheddar
Some cheese is nice, some is cool, some is disgusting, some is straight-up inedible to me.
Cheese for sure. Goat, Sheep, Cow, so many amazing varieties. All utilizing amazing advances in animal husbandry the human race has honed and improved upon for centuries across almost all cultures and all parts of the world.
Depends. I don't really like cheese but it's nice on burger and sandwiches although it depends whoch cheese
Cheese is life. Goat cheese in the summer, a good tartiflette to start the winter and many more