I was gonna send this to my wife but he wouldn't get the joke
A thought on the upper half of the meme: those "fans" sound like creeps with a fetish.
Streaming is just acting for a digital audience. If someone is going to be so upset over the identity of the streamer outside of their streaming persona, they are unhealthily invested in that person’s life.
Edit: I'm not surprised about the downvotes, but I am disappointed. This isn't very different than followers on Twitch getting pissy when they find out their favorite gamer girl streamer actually has a boyfriend, and I'm sure most of you would agree that those people are creepy, obsessive, and fetishising women gamers.
I mean... I can see it both ways.
When people engage with content, they have expectations going in - they expect to know if the content is fictional, truthful, or intentionally ambiguous.
For example, if someone watches a documentary and finds out it was all made up, they'd be right to be upset, because it presents itself as honest.
Likewise if someone watches a fantasy movie, they don't have the expectation of honesty.
And if someone watches something like the Blair witch project, they go in knowing that it's dubiously truthful. It's a bit of a grey area because the deceit is part of the art.
Streaming is similar, vtubers are obviously fictional - nobody really has expectations around what they're really like.
But if someone builds a following around being authentically themselves, and then it's discovered that they're lying about significant parts of their content, I can understand some degree of outrage.
I don't really watch streamers because the dynamic between streamers and viewers seems toxic AF, where streamers are kinda forced to pander and appear personable... But I still understand being upset when you find out what you got isn't what you were sold
She's stealing the identity of a marginalized minority, I say she didn't get enough hate, this was an old case, the meme is just being recycled.
Not sure what sort of content this person made, but if I found out one of the trans creators I pay attention to was faking it I'd be kinda pissed.
Then again most of the trans content creators I pay attention to are either talking about trans specific issues, or shit like franlab where the content is very focused on the hobby and not the person.
Femboys aren't trans.
They said trap which is a catch-all slur for gender non-conforming amab people.
Eh, it's pretty trans-adjacent, same wheelhouse.
Where's this wheelhouse?
WHERE?
They're both affected by transmisogyny and queerphobia? This shouldn't be hard to understand
I think they meant where as in physically where so they can go there.
That (horny) joke comment -> 🚀
You -> 🤓
oh it was like, expressing desire to access the wheelhouse rather than questioning whether it exists D: sorry
One of the main advantages that streaming has over other forms of entertainment is that it does create a sort of relationship between the streamer and the viewer. Generally the viewer knows that the streamer isn't really his friend, but the viewer does feel a sort of human connection to the streamer which relies on the assumption that the streamer is being authentic.
I'll be frank: if I watch streamer content, it's because I'm feeling lonely and watching it is a little like hanging out with a friend. Obviously it's not the same because it's almost entirely a one-way interaction and I know that the streamer is deliberately creating entertainment as opposed to doing what he's doing purely for its own sake, but I would be disappointed if I discovered that a streamer's whole identity was made up.
This relationship thing is why I avoid streaming, just feels like propaganda eventually it affects you even if you know it can happen
I like watching stream highlights, occasionally I'll watch one live. But they're generally pretty boring, even as background noise - they're on there for hours at a time
I don't think the relationship itself is bad, but it's a relationship between you (massively plural) and an individual. It's like being part of a crowd. I get that people like it, but I don't get much out of it
I think people would be upset that the streamer felt the need to lie in the first place
Referring to a crossdresser as trap ✅
Referring to a trans person as trap ❌
Referring to Admiral Ackbar as trap 😱
He was only the Messenger! Stop trying to shoot him!
Both uses are a bit yucky tbh
You're right actually.
Referring to a bear trap as a trap?
They were expecting so much "more" from her...
Like a penis?
“Woman online is actually a woman online”. More after the break
Wait, we're allowed to use the word "Trap" to refer to crossdressers? I knew we weren't allowed to use it to refer to trans people (for obvious reasons), but it's still cool to call crossdressers that? Disgaea 4's PC release told me it wasn't.. gahh
Okay, I don't understand the Post-Twitter landscape. Is there a book of rules I can see
Wait, we're allowed to use the word "Trap" to refer to crossdressers?
I guess the word has been reclaimed?
There were some streamers that would dress up as girls to make fun of horny perverts on omegle. You can say, they were trapping perverts.
You cannot stop me from willfully misreading this as tarp.
From what I've seen you have crossdressers self identifying as trap (a subgroup of all crossdressers and I could see how the term would be offensive to the rest as well) on one side and people that are unaware that group exists and think trap is exclusively a derogatory term for trans ppl (or think enjoying crossdressing MUST mean you're trans) on the other.
It's a whole mess as any offensive language tends to be, because words rarely ever only have one meaning and there's also more than one language in the world but terms still cross from one language into others.
Honestly as long as you're trying to be considerate of others I don't think anyone can fault you, and that goes for everything. People will try to speak for everyone, but even when they do speak for the majority there are usually exceptions.
If someone identifies as a trap then you can refer to them as a trap. Simple as.
Generally it isn’t. The term comes from a meme that involved a gif of an actual trans woman (Bailey Jay)
Incredible
Reverse Pinocchio?
gay touhou players after finding out there is no boys in touhou /lhj
What are you, my wife? It's not gay if it's a trap.
I never sleep with women with a smaller dick than mine, doesn't work right when docking
And where is the problem? I mean obviously being a liar is bad. But what difference does this even make?
reminder that trap is a transphobic slur, you should add a content warning in the title
This is funny because my enbyfriend's gamer tag is "trapsonly"
yes and half of the trans people on tumblr call themselves trannies.
the difference is the same as watching a movie with flashing lights after sitting through the epilepsy warning and getting your brain actually blasted by the day 1 cyberpunk 2077 braindance cutscene. one's a choice, the other just happens to you.
I am trans and find "tranny" and "trap" offensive. They are derogatory terms.
EDIT: Damn crazy to see such bigotry on this platform. What a shame.
and people like you are exactly why content warnings should be standard and why every site/app with user generated content should have a word filter option.
that said, your discomfort should not prohibit others from expressing themselves
Could you point out the bigotry?
"I know I'm offending a group of people but I don't care"
I don’t see it. Trap being a slur is a minority opinion in the trans community.
Not as far as I'm aware. A lot of people don't care for sure but the general consensus in the trans communities I participate in (mostly r/MtF on reddit) agrees it's a slur and find it offensive.
"Trap" is almost strictly a porn term / tag. Not every trans woman wants to be referred to by that, nor do they want to be sexualized.
there's other trans communities and other social norms online than r/mtf on reddit. People should be allowed to call themselves what they like imo, and you should probably try to make sure of the user's actual stance before policing their language.
...Yes, people should be able to call themselves what they like, but using a derogatory word to describe a group of other people is a no-go, sorry. It's like, using a derogatory word to describe a group of people from a certain race is obviously wrong, right? This is no different. And if a significant percentage of people from that group definitely consider a term derogatory, then maybe you shouldn't use it.
As I said before, "trap" and "tranny" are both terms used almost explicitly in pornography. You should NOT refer to a transgender person or group of transgender people using either of those terms, unless A) those people are all okay with that term being used to describe them and B) it is in a pornographic context. But even better not to use those terms at all - trap is literally saying "you've been trapped / tricked by a girl with a dick" and tranny is short for transexual which is an outdated and now derogatory term.
Yes, trans communities exist outside of r/MtF, but that subreddit is a general non-pornographic forum used by many trans women, and the opinions of the people there give a pretty good consensus of how trans people online feel about certain topics (including this one, which I've seen multiple posts of).
Your original comment was saying that the term is inherently derogatory and offensive. I'm trying to explain that in this case I don't accept the framework of a derogatory terms but rather derogatory usages. That's like, my opinion. As a self identified tranny, who still identifies as such in a non porn context. As do lots of my friends on twitter.
Feel like we've already been over all this back when some people online decided "queer" is always a slur and started aggressively trying to police people from using it..
Girls call themselves sluts, depends how the demographic embraces the word, my gf hates the term princess but likes it when i degrade her
That's cool but you don't go and call girls you don't know sluts, and in the same vein, you don't call trans women you don't know traps or trannies.
Somehow I hadn't noticed this place was transphobic. Whoopsy!
What?
Some people consider trap to be a slur. Idk, the people who post on r/traps embrace it.
It's weird, it's like a four way conflict between trans women, cis crossdressers, well meaning cis allies speaking over the former, and transphobes.
I think people should be allowed to call themselves what they like personally. But they should be able to veto what others call them. But setting a single universal norm doesn't make sense
well put.
its incredible how hard it is for some people to just respect what others do with their own identity if they don't perfectly understand it
What I find really sad is how fast people call others transphobic. Numerous times I've even seen trans people being called transphobic.
Sometimes it's also just people making honest mistakes and sometimes people double down on shitty positions if cornered by an insult like being called a transphob. Is that ok? No but it's also human nature unfortunately.
But I get it there is a lot of hate especially in recent times where it is a constant topic in the US culture war. And it must be exhausting to see hate in so many places. A lot of actual transphobic people are akso not acting in good faith of course. This just makes me more sad :(
Yeah the word trap can go the fuck back to the 2010s where it belongs.
I was gonna send this to my wife but he wouldn't get the joke
A thought on the upper half of the meme: those "fans" sound like creeps with a fetish.
Streaming is just acting for a digital audience. If someone is going to be so upset over the identity of the streamer outside of their streaming persona, they are unhealthily invested in that person’s life.
Edit: I'm not surprised about the downvotes, but I am disappointed. This isn't very different than followers on Twitch getting pissy when they find out their favorite gamer girl streamer actually has a boyfriend, and I'm sure most of you would agree that those people are creepy, obsessive, and fetishising women gamers.
I mean... I can see it both ways.
When people engage with content, they have expectations going in - they expect to know if the content is fictional, truthful, or intentionally ambiguous.
For example, if someone watches a documentary and finds out it was all made up, they'd be right to be upset, because it presents itself as honest.
Likewise if someone watches a fantasy movie, they don't have the expectation of honesty.
And if someone watches something like the Blair witch project, they go in knowing that it's dubiously truthful. It's a bit of a grey area because the deceit is part of the art.
Streaming is similar, vtubers are obviously fictional - nobody really has expectations around what they're really like.
But if someone builds a following around being authentically themselves, and then it's discovered that they're lying about significant parts of their content, I can understand some degree of outrage.
I don't really watch streamers because the dynamic between streamers and viewers seems toxic AF, where streamers are kinda forced to pander and appear personable... But I still understand being upset when you find out what you got isn't what you were sold
She's stealing the identity of a marginalized minority, I say she didn't get enough hate, this was an old case, the meme is just being recycled.
Not sure what sort of content this person made, but if I found out one of the trans creators I pay attention to was faking it I'd be kinda pissed.
Then again most of the trans content creators I pay attention to are either talking about trans specific issues, or shit like franlab where the content is very focused on the hobby and not the person.
Femboys aren't trans.
They said trap which is a catch-all slur for gender non-conforming amab people.
Eh, it's pretty trans-adjacent, same wheelhouse.
Where's this wheelhouse?
WHERE?
They're both affected by transmisogyny and queerphobia? This shouldn't be hard to understandI think they meant where as in physically where so they can go there.
That (horny) joke comment -> 🚀
You -> 🤓
oh it was like, expressing desire to access the wheelhouse rather than questioning whether it exists D: sorry
Why yes, I do watch femboy streams. How could you tell?
One of the main advantages that streaming has over other forms of entertainment is that it does create a sort of relationship between the streamer and the viewer. Generally the viewer knows that the streamer isn't really his friend, but the viewer does feel a sort of human connection to the streamer which relies on the assumption that the streamer is being authentic.
I'll be frank: if I watch streamer content, it's because I'm feeling lonely and watching it is a little like hanging out with a friend. Obviously it's not the same because it's almost entirely a one-way interaction and I know that the streamer is deliberately creating entertainment as opposed to doing what he's doing purely for its own sake, but I would be disappointed if I discovered that a streamer's whole identity was made up.
This relationship thing is why I avoid streaming, just feels like propaganda eventually it affects you even if you know it can happen
I like watching stream highlights, occasionally I'll watch one live. But they're generally pretty boring, even as background noise - they're on there for hours at a time
I don't think the relationship itself is bad, but it's a relationship between you (massively plural) and an individual. It's like being part of a crowd. I get that people like it, but I don't get much out of it
I think people would be upset that the streamer felt the need to lie in the first place
Referring to a crossdresser as trap ✅
Referring to a trans person as trap ❌
Referring to Admiral Ackbar as trap 😱
He was only the Messenger! Stop trying to shoot him!
Both uses are a bit yucky tbh
You're right actually.
Referring to a bear trap as a trap?
They were expecting so much "more" from her...
Like a penis?
“Woman online is actually a woman online”. More after the break
Wait, we're allowed to use the word "Trap" to refer to crossdressers? I knew we weren't allowed to use it to refer to trans people (for obvious reasons), but it's still cool to call crossdressers that? Disgaea 4's PC release told me it wasn't.. gahh
Okay, I don't understand the Post-Twitter landscape. Is there a book of rules I can see
I guess the word has been reclaimed?
There were some streamers that would dress up as girls to make fun of horny perverts on omegle. You can say, they were trapping perverts.
You cannot stop me from willfully misreading this as tarp.
We are all one in tarpness
https://imgflip.com/i/911q5p
From what I've seen you have crossdressers self identifying as trap (a subgroup of all crossdressers and I could see how the term would be offensive to the rest as well) on one side and people that are unaware that group exists and think trap is exclusively a derogatory term for trans ppl (or think enjoying crossdressing MUST mean you're trans) on the other.
It's a whole mess as any offensive language tends to be, because words rarely ever only have one meaning and there's also more than one language in the world but terms still cross from one language into others.
Honestly as long as you're trying to be considerate of others I don't think anyone can fault you, and that goes for everything. People will try to speak for everyone, but even when they do speak for the majority there are usually exceptions.
If someone identifies as a trap then you can refer to them as a trap. Simple as.
Generally it isn’t. The term comes from a meme that involved a gif of an actual trans woman (Bailey Jay)
Incredible
Reverse Pinocchio?
gay touhou players after finding out there is no boys in touhou /lhj
What are you, my wife? It's not gay if it's a trap.
I never sleep with women with a smaller dick than mine, doesn't work right when docking
And where is the problem? I mean obviously being a liar is bad. But what difference does this even make?
reminder that trap is a transphobic slur, you should add a content warning in the title
This is funny because my enbyfriend's gamer tag is "trapsonly"
yes and half of the trans people on tumblr call themselves trannies.
the difference is the same as watching a movie with flashing lights after sitting through the epilepsy warning and getting your brain actually blasted by the day 1 cyberpunk 2077 braindance cutscene. one's a choice, the other just happens to you.
I am trans and find "tranny" and "trap" offensive. They are derogatory terms.
EDIT: Damn crazy to see such bigotry on this platform. What a shame.
and people like you are exactly why content warnings should be standard and why every site/app with user generated content should have a word filter option.
that said, your discomfort should not prohibit others from expressing themselves
Could you point out the bigotry?
"I know I'm offending a group of people but I don't care"
I don’t see it. Trap being a slur is a minority opinion in the trans community.
Not as far as I'm aware. A lot of people don't care for sure but the general consensus in the trans communities I participate in (mostly r/MtF on reddit) agrees it's a slur and find it offensive.
"Trap" is almost strictly a porn term / tag. Not every trans woman wants to be referred to by that, nor do they want to be sexualized.
there's other trans communities and other social norms online than r/mtf on reddit. People should be allowed to call themselves what they like imo, and you should probably try to make sure of the user's actual stance before policing their language.
...Yes, people should be able to call themselves what they like, but using a derogatory word to describe a group of other people is a no-go, sorry. It's like, using a derogatory word to describe a group of people from a certain race is obviously wrong, right? This is no different. And if a significant percentage of people from that group definitely consider a term derogatory, then maybe you shouldn't use it.
As I said before, "trap" and "tranny" are both terms used almost explicitly in pornography. You should NOT refer to a transgender person or group of transgender people using either of those terms, unless A) those people are all okay with that term being used to describe them and B) it is in a pornographic context. But even better not to use those terms at all - trap is literally saying "you've been trapped / tricked by a girl with a dick" and tranny is short for transexual which is an outdated and now derogatory term.
Yes, trans communities exist outside of r/MtF, but that subreddit is a general non-pornographic forum used by many trans women, and the opinions of the people there give a pretty good consensus of how trans people online feel about certain topics (including this one, which I've seen multiple posts of).
Your original comment was saying that the term is inherently derogatory and offensive. I'm trying to explain that in this case I don't accept the framework of a derogatory terms but rather derogatory usages. That's like, my opinion. As a self identified tranny, who still identifies as such in a non porn context. As do lots of my friends on twitter.
Feel like we've already been over all this back when some people online decided "queer" is always a slur and started aggressively trying to police people from using it..
Girls call themselves sluts, depends how the demographic embraces the word, my gf hates the term princess but likes it when i degrade her
That's cool but you don't go and call girls you don't know sluts, and in the same vein, you don't call trans women you don't know traps or trannies.
Hm it might be good to have a conversation about cw policy on lemmy actually. If you post something I'll upvote it
Somehow I hadn't noticed this place was transphobic. Whoopsy!
What?
Some people consider trap to be a slur. Idk, the people who post on r/traps embrace it.
It's weird, it's like a four way conflict between trans women, cis crossdressers, well meaning cis allies speaking over the former, and transphobes.
I think people should be allowed to call themselves what they like personally. But they should be able to veto what others call them. But setting a single universal norm doesn't make sense
well put.
its incredible how hard it is for some people to just respect what others do with their own identity if they don't perfectly understand it
What I find really sad is how fast people call others transphobic. Numerous times I've even seen trans people being called transphobic.
Sometimes it's also just people making honest mistakes and sometimes people double down on shitty positions if cornered by an insult like being called a transphob. Is that ok? No but it's also human nature unfortunately.
But I get it there is a lot of hate especially in recent times where it is a constant topic in the US culture war. And it must be exhausting to see hate in so many places. A lot of actual transphobic people are akso not acting in good faith of course. This just makes me more sad :(
Yeah the word trap can go the fuck back to the 2010s where it belongs.