For people who misread the headline and are confused: one of the people Masterson allegedly raped (her trial specifically is still ongoing according to the article) is firing shots at Linkin Park's new singer because she is a scientologist who turned out in support of Masterson.
What?
The new lead singer is a scientologist who supports rapists.
Damn. I might have enjoyed some new Linkin park but all this shit is so stupid. Who am I kidding I wouldn't have enjoyed it that much.
Definitely no less confusion after reading that.
Yeah, I tried. Link Pee new singer worship alien and defend rapist lmao.
To be clear, she allegedly was told to support him, went to his first trial, and has not been in contact with him or spoken on his behalf since. It's very possible the veil was lifted, so to speak, at that trial.
So I don't have anything to say about Masterson other than he's a monster. But to share a related personal anctodote.
It's very possible the veil was lifted, so to speak, at that trial.
A few years ago I started becoming more active with a friend I had grown distant with. She introduced me to her new circle of friends which included a guy named Barry. Who was awaiting trial for "something that was blown out of proportion", this was an ongoing very long process since covid pushed his court date back like two years in total. So I met him a few times and heard him describe the case. But I was always skeptical of his story, how do you just wake up in a bush with a gun to a police dog with zero recollection of the night before?
But I let it slide in the moment because I was in a pretty vulnerable lonely place after a bad breakup, however I made DAMN sure to actually attend his trial. The only one of the friend group who did, and he was very thankful and called me a good friend. But I really just wanted to hear the story from the defense.
Barry didn't mention the gun shots he fired as his ex girlfriend or the camera footage showing him stumbling around with a gun. He didn't mention that he was shooting outside when his home is next to a school and it caused the school to close, also didn't mention the threats he made. The lawyer for Barry couldn't make much of a defense for him, just that he was in AA and doesn't drink anymore.
Barry went to jail. And I made absolutely sure that everyone heard abiut what I learned. But the tradgey was that most people just thought I had a personal grudge against him. That I didn't know how crazy his ex GF was and that she totally (probably) provoked him.
Long story short, it's easy to talk around the truth to you friends, who of course will take your side. Going to a trial and hearing the evidence yourself can be a very eye opening experience.
Until she officially speaks out against the cult it is all speculation and cope from entitled fan apologists.
To each their own. I've watched a lot of movies with Tom Cruise and other shows with other Scientologist. The group is fucked, but I guess that's not where I draw the line in who I choose to allow in my media life, but I get that others do, and that's fine. I have my own moral lines with other things.
Until she officially speaks out
Have you heard "emptiness machine"? As far as I can tell it's a song about how she was ripped apart emotionally/psychologically by the Scientology cult.
it is all speculation and cope from entitled fan apologists.
Then why is she still doing things for them and why is she still a member?
That's just an article about her weak ass PR statement. She didn't mentioned her cult even once, and called her fellow cult member a "friend". If that's denouncing Scientology for you then you probably also believe in Santa.
That's convicted rapist Danny Masterson if anyone was wondering who that was.
Was playing DOTA 2 a while back, ended up playing against a 5 man team that included an account named "DannyMasterson." I asked if it was really him, and someone on his team gave a semi-answer like "it just might be đ "
So I targeted his hero, and did a lot of all chat messages about how he was a POS rapist that's going to prison, and how scientology is a cult of predators. I just know that it was actually him, and he was with 4 other scientology cunts. We demolished'em. Never saw his handle again.
Personally as a life long LP fan, Chester's death hit when it happend. At the time I wasn't in the best place mentally and to hear someone's work I enjoyed committed suicide was not a positive event. Through counselling and therapy I was able to work through my problems in a healthy way and I suggest anyone going through anything similar to try the same. Scientoligists are anti therapy and anti psychology. The thought that proven methods of counsellings and psychological aid could of helped Chester or anyone in a similar situation being undermined by his replacement hurts to my core. I won't go into the other allegations this fact resonates with me the most but I don't think I can be a LP fan right now, with my personal feelings.
LP ended with Chester.
This could be a good band, but its not LP.
Scientoligists are anti therapy and anti psychology
All cults are, really, because the therapist can see that the cult is basically an abusive partner x1000 and try to decondition the members.
"Plus, that money should be going to the church, or in this case your therapy sessions with us so you can become 'clear.' Don't you want to give us $300,000 so we can tell you your soul is an alien and Xenu is trying to eat it or enslave it or something?"
I thought Scientology was all about the therapy and working towards becoming clear.
Nah it's all a scam, it costs about $130,000 to become clear, and then another $30,000 ish to become level "OTIII," Then another $130,000 to become OTVIII which is the highest current level, just to learn that South Park's Scientology episode was actually accurate to what these people actually believe.
The Emptiness Machine, which is the song introducing her as vocalist, is her singing about how fucked up scientology is
She has no writing credit on the song man... Non of these lyrics are hers... Just incase I googled it as well and no mention..
It's good to see so many people now recognize scientology for the dangerous and manipulative cult it is and hope this starts to extend to the others like Falun Gong who are objectively worse in many regards but their propaganda tools like Epoch Times and their show Shen Yun are bizarrely popular in the US and much of Europe with hardly anyone ever commenting on the torture, rape, murder, and all the typical evil cult stuff they do.
Since 1995, Scientology has been classified as a secte (cult) by boards of inquiry commissioned by the National Assembly of France. It was first designated a sect in a 1995 report, and then in a 1999 report it was classified as an "absolute" sect and recommended its dissolution.
In 2000, after 'appeals for religious tolerance' from USA President Clinton and his congress, president of France Jacques Chirac told Clinton to stay out of France's business, noting "shocking White House support for Scientologists". Alain Vivien, chairman of the Ministerial Mission to Combat the Influence of Cults, claimed that sectsâprimarily headed and funded by Scientologyâhad been infiltrating the United Nations and other European human rights organizations. In 2001, France passed the AboutâPicard law, intended to strengthen their ability to prevent and repress sects that undermine human rights and fundamental freedoms, and those which engage in mental manipulation. The law would allow courts "to order the immediate dissolution of any movement regarded as a cult whose members are found guilty of such existing offences as fraud, abuse of confidence, the illegal practice of medicine, wrongful advertising and sexual abuse."
A 2009 case resulted in a fraud conviction against two Church of Scientology organizations and five individuals, and recommended dissolution, and a 2012 appeal upheld the convictions including 600,000EUR in fines. Though the prosecution had requested the dissolution of the Scientology Celebrity Centre and its bookstore, a dissolution penalty wasn't possible due to a brief retraction of the dissolution law prior to the 2009 verdict and the prohibition against enforcing it retroactively.
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That's cool and all, but this story is about Scientology.
If you haven't escaped a cult you might not understand, but cults control their members in similar ways, and understanding how one operates will help you to avoid others.
Look up the BITE model
In a discussion about a cult
Brings up other, equally bad if not worse cults - specifically a Chinese cult
Whoa whoa guys, let's not get crazy - this is about Scientology, remember? America bad, amirite?
Hmm
Brings up other, equally bad if not worse cults - specifically a Chinese cult
Whoa whoa guys, letâs not get crazy - this is about Scientology, remember? America bad, amirite?
The Chinese government hates Falun Gong, so if anybody has a pro-China bias, it's the person agitating against Falun Gong in an unrelated thread.
And I'm saying it's weird to try to shut down conversations about cults in a conversation about cults.
lol gatekeeping which cults we can talk about in a thread.
On Saturday Carnell-Bixler condemned Armstrong and Linkin Park in a statement, writing:
Dear Emily,
If youâre not going to speak out against the human and child trafficking cult in which you are apart of and in which you enable by remaining silent on the crimes you know about then you have no right to fill the shoes of Chester Bennington, a true advocate. I donât give a fuck that you are very close to the serial rapist. I donât give a fuck that you lied in your âapologyâ instagram story. I do care that you participated, after being asked, in the cruel intimidation of Jane Doe 1 with your cult pals at court. I do care that you didnât once mention that you are a member of a child and human trafficking cult that covers up the abuses and rapes of CHILDREN and adults. I do care that your parents work for OSA (the office of special affairs) of the cult of Scientology which have been ordering attacks on me and my family which includes murdering my dogs in the most inhumane and evil ways. I do care that they have been attacking and harassing my fellow sister survivors. You donât speak out against Scientology not because youâre terrified of them. You donât speak out because you are one of them. Shame on Linkin Park. Fuck you.
*âScientology P.I.âs outside our house all day,â she also wrote in an earlier Story. âStole our trash⊠And other things. Documented.â
Bixler-Zavala shared his wifeâs statement, adding additional context and telling Linkin Park, âYou should fire your entire team for not thoroughly vetting your choice. Youâre a Disney level brand trying to make a comeback and you didnât think to spend a little money on looking into her? Stop playing at the drive inâs music on your pre show playlist.â*
I am 100% with the spirit of this statement.
But people need to stop overusing "of which" and "in which", literally even Matt Mercer (who I assume is largely responsible for the recent popularization of this turn of phrase) uses it wrong half the time.
In this instance, it should be either: "in which you are a part" or "which you are a part of" but instead they used both, presumably in an attempt to sound sophisticated, at which they failed.
Which is unfortunate because I love a good lambasting of scientology
I think you mean, "In which is unfortunate because..."
I see what of which you did there
Cool way to respect the memory of Chester you got there LinkedIn Park.
I hope the legacy of this band becomes more than that of any individual member.
Chester Bennington
I'm not going to fault anyone for having problems with this. I definitely am not comfortable with someone who comes out of a cult that actively opposes treating mental health "replacing" Chester, a man who struggled all his life before tragically taking his own life.
But people do need to understand: The reason scientology STILL has so much power is not because tom cruise has so many thetans. It is because, like all good cults, they have MASSIVE amounts of dirt on their members. And they make it very clear that anyone who speaks out against them will be destroyed. If you thought a British PM fucking a pig's carcass was a shock... There are similar stories with every cult and secret society.
So if the cult says jump? You jump. And while I remain very very conflicted, I do give Emily credit for being openly gay (a huge no no) and talking around regretting being part of the crew that was used to try to protect masterson. I would rather outright condemnation and apologies but... that probably won't happen unless she is ready to be destroyed by the cult.
Leah Remini deserves mad props for how incredibly brave she has been speaking out against scientology. But she also is MASSIVELY "lucky" that she basically escaped while they were running massive damage control for tom cruise vanceing up oprah's couch. And by the time they "recovered" she had gone from "Weren't you on the beach episode of Saved By The Bell?" to too high profile for them to really go after. Almost nobody else is going to have that luxury.
And as purely a music fan? Not huge on The Emptiness Machine outside of that initial reveal. But I kind of loved most of the Emily covers of the hits and give mad props to the band for making it a point to change the tempo or remix the songs a bit so she isn't just singing Chester's part. Time will tell what the album versions are and if they touch some of the songs they REALLY REALLY REALLY should not touch
Stupid twat. RIP Chester and LP. That name shouldn't be continued.
Hmmm, is she still a scientologist? Seems like a weird choice if she is, although a cult is a cult and that one is brutally hard to get out of. I think I can forgive people who sided with Masterson initially if their cult told them to (maybe not at much post-conviction) but I think it's problematic having anyone like that as the front to LP because of the suicide.
That said, if she renounced the cult at part of this gig (and ideally Masterson too) I think I'd be ok with her. I think what LP is trying to do is ultimately as good thing, especially since they're not trying to find someone exactly like Chester.
I really was enjoying Handmaiden's Tale (the TV series), then I happened to read the lead character is a true blue Scientologist. That fact made the show unwatchable.
Yes she still is. She apologized for supporting Masterson (I think, she didn't name him in the post). But she seems to be OK with her cult terrorizing Masterson's victims, among many others.
To be fair she was born into it, it's not easy breaking free from this kind of brainwashing.
Didn't know she was born into it, that is especially difficult. Thanks for the info, though.
She didn't even mention the cult in her half assed "apology" letter, calling her fellow cult member a "friend". The only way this whole setup would have worked would've been if she, at the first announcement of her being part of LP, renounced & denounced the entire cult for what it is, along with an actually truthful apology for being part in it.
From what Iâve read, they will do everything in their power to ruin someones life and career if they publicly leave Scientology. Thatâs not even denouncing it, just saying youâre not a part of it anymore.
Also people keep saying they want a âtruthful apologyâ, but if her statement is honest then she doesnât have much to apologize for. She said he was a friend, but then immediately stopped supporting him after hearing the evidence. I think most people would have done the same. So far though itâs all just their word vs. hers so Iâm holding out on any real judgement until some kind of evidence of something comes out.
I'm aware of Scientology's tactics. Her blocking the court seats is her being part of those tactics. Just like their goons who harassed one of the victims, or Masterson raping them.
And Masterson wasn't a "friend", but a fellow cult member. That's why she was there, that's why she blocked the court room to hold any of the victims relatives & friends. She's literally part of the problem and you people are making excuses for her instead of calling her out. Also, her idiotic "apology" HAD to specifically call out female victims, while part of the criticism is that she replaces a MALE victim.
Honestly no idea what kind of "evidence" you want before you acknowledge the truth.
Tbh it's really hard to reverse brainwashing and conditioning and speak out which means you lose your entire family and friends (that are also in the cult), whether you were raised in it or tricked into it yourself is even of little consequence.
To expect someone to say "oh hey I got a little professional success now I should by default make my friends and family and entire community hate me and make the most litigious cult mad at me (no way they'd want a piece of the success I'm leaving them for, right?), and go against all the crazy shit I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on trying to become 'clear' or 'OTVIII' (just to learn what South Park already taught us no less)." isn't wrong but it is unrealistic. She'll need a whole ass deconditioning really, or at least it's something that will take quite a long time.
Cults are fucked, way more so than you may think, and this whole "why doesn't she just leave" thing, it's basically the same question as "why doesn't she just leave her abusive boyfreind." Maybe it's impossible to understand either until you've been through one, idk.
You're hitting several fallacies here.
First, her being potentially brainwashed is not an excuse. Yeah, that may be how she got there, but that does not mean that is how and who she should be - let alone have her replace Chester of all people.
Secondly, it's not about her success. No one should ever be in a cult like this, regardless of your fame. I expect the same thing from every other member too. However, in this case we have someone replace a SA victim that is in a cult that literally does the same fucking thing (and worse) to others.
One of the victims of Masterson and her husband, which this is kinda about, were also both members of Scientology. They even got their dogs murdered by them, yet they still fight - and that's what every member with a sane conscience should do.
Should be? No, nobody should be subjected to that abuse. But she is, and has been since she was born into it. Some things just are whether they "should be" or not. It's life. I bet if when she was born they said "will you defend our cult against rapists? If no say no and we won't let you in, if yes say nothing." She probably would have picked "No" had she not been a literal baby who had yet to learn english. But they don't, they slowly ramp up the abuse until escaping is at least psychologically neigh impossible.
You can blame her for being a victim of this cult all you want, it's not really my fight and my guess is you'll never understand until you've been in a comparable situation (which is hopefully never) so it would be a waste of time. I've said my piece.
I don't blame her for being a victim, I blame her for being an abuser. Cedric and his wife are victims. She is part of the problem.
Cedric and his wife are also victims. There are typically more than two victims involved in a cult.
The difference is I consider all the members of the cult who have been abused and manipulated into the position they're in by the leadership to be victims, and you only seem to consider someone a victim if they've already started the process of breaking free.
Yes, like the other women that Masterson raped for example. But I'm sticking to what's relevant to the topic of the article.
But you would also see the Nazis as victims, so I'm checking out at this point. No reason to keep talking to abuser apologists.
Not being familiar with each of their religions they are certainly victims of Masterson, they may or may not be victims of scientology. But the members of scientology (specificially not management), are victims of scientology. Cults prey on the weak, you don't have to too.
Tell me, do you also think women are only victims of their abusers once they leave too or is that criticism reserved only for people who are abused on a larger scale by their entire community?
Tell me, do you also think women are only victims of their abusers once they leave too or is that criticism reserved only for people who are abused on a larger scale by their entire community?
If they help other women getting raped or harass other victims of the rapist then yes, they're part of the problem. But it's a bad faith argument anyway, so thanks for proving my point. Just like you calling Scientology a religion instead of a cult. I think that was a wonderful end for this comment chain.
Frankly I use religion and cult interchangeably, there's not much difference. The main separation is age, really. That means yes I often refer to say, Catholicism, as a cult as well.
(Edit: And btw, I referred to Masterson's victim's unknown religions as "religions," not "Scientology." If some of them are scientologists then I suppose I technically did by happenstance, but you pretending you didn't understand that just because you don't want to concede that I'm actually right and use it as a personal attack is pretty funny.)
You can just say you have no idea what it's like to be seriously abused and move on. Tbh, that's good, I hope for your sake you never know.
People that have reservations over her Scientology situation, I understand. People that are upset that LP got a new singer, regardless of who it is, I believe are selfish morons. When band members die or leave, the band should be allowed to move on. Chester was one one of a kind, and it's super sad that he's not still here, but when the lead singer in your band not only dies, but kills themselves and fucks over the band, then replacing that person should not be controversial at all. Mental health issues are real, and I have empathy, but Chester's actions were ultimately selfish and the closest victims are now under fire for continuing forward.
Imo joy division becoming new order was the right way to handle such tragedy, it's different because Linkin park were a record company manufactured band but he was in from the start and pretty much the only person anyone recognized plus he wrote a lot of the songs.
Otherwise you get record companies selling you tickets to black flag thirty years later who might as well be a cover band, it'll get to the point recognized names are still topping festivals a hundred years after the first original member died of old age. It benefits no one but corporate copyright holders.
Nah, a simple name change solves the problem, as mentioned with Joy Division/New Order.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, when Dio took over they should have renamed the band itself to Heaven and Hell, Sabbath lives and dies with the combo of Ozzy, Tony, Geezer, and Bill.
Why the fuck am I supposed to care about the religion of a performer?
Or am I now allowed to bash on all the christian performers out there too?
And I don't give a flying fuck about masterson either. You have a friend, you fucking back them until you have solid proof in front of you. Which, she did. Once she saw the proof, she stopped backing him. End of fucking story.
People are fucking idiots about this kind of shit.
The only one who believes scientology is a religion is the IRS lol
They treat it as one.
Cult, scam, whatever. They suck, but that isn't the point.
Idk i think the only thing religion has going for it is tradition. Scientology is missing the tradition component which makes me think followers are just really dumb ir desparate for connection. Scientologist celebs are trying to cash in their influence by selling it to the church and lying to dumb people to try to get them caught up in a cult.
I dont see a defensible position for someone like that. I would want to know who is doing that and not buy their stuff, personally.
Edit: she was born into it, so im wrong.
Her parents are like high ranking members, she was born into it. So either shes still in the church, which sucks but is more defensible than someone choosing it for themselves, or as evidenced by her queer lifestyle and song lyrics, shes left the church but doesnt want to completely burn bridges with all her former friends and family or possibly put them at risk by speaking out publicly.
I see a defensible position:
Cults are basically abusive boyfriends x1000.
If you leave or speak out, goodbye all family and friends you've ever known.
She was born into this.
You ever been brainwashed, either by a cult or just an abusive ex? I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but it would help you gain a deeper understandings of the inner workings of a cult, and how they retain their victims.
The previous singer died from suicide and scientologists are very anti mental health treatment. I can't blame anyone for being bothered by that.
It's fucking dumb.
The only thing that matters is if she can do the job.
I'm not blaming anyone, I'm just saying they should use their brain for something useful.
The whole thing is beyond stupid and into absurdity at this point.
"Listen I'm not blaming anyone, but if you think a white guy shouldn't be president of the NAACP, you're just fucking dumb morons. All that matters is if they can do the literal job* (*not including the messaging or morals, just the literal job functions")
It's a fucking band
Are you deliberately missing the point?
no, I'm disagreeing with it.
It's not the same thing as the NAACP at all.
It isn't some kind of organization dedicated to anti-cult endeavor, nor even a band dedicated to anything other than making music. That's it. That's the entirety of what linkin park is. They're an amazing fucking band that makes amazing fucking music.
Nothing about making music is predicated on the beliefs of the members unless they're making music about those beliefs, and even then it doesn't mean they have to do it all the time.
Are we going to flip out on Garth Brooks and Chance the rapper now? Both of them are openly supporters of a religion that has caused or condoned wars, genocide, and even today actively seek to crush the rights of other people. Christianity is just a big cult that demands loyalty and money and strict adherence to the rules of whichever sect of the cult you belong to, and nobody is up their ass for the actions of the rest of their religion.
Or is it only the cults we like that get a pass? Is that what it is? Sammy Davis Jr is cool, what with being a Satanist and jewish (at the same time, which is actually pretty damn cool), and Reba Macentire gets a pass because reasons, but not this woman that grew up in a cult we don't like as much?
It's bullshit. It's empty headed drek.
Now, if Armstrong gets up on stage and starts trying to convert people that didn't show up for that, that's a different issue. If she starts writing songs with LP that tear down what they've always claimed to believe, that's a different issue.
I simply do not give a fuck about what fiction a person believes in. It has nothing to do with the music unless they make it about that.
Anyone wanna tear Scientology down? Go for it! It's a giant scam as well as a cult. Tear down all of them as far as I'm concerned. Make it illegal, remove all non profit status from all of the brain washing cults that get called religion. But that's still a separate issue from some band making music.
It's the old art vs artist argument, only in this case, all the artist did was get raised in a disliked religion, and then take part in a truly fucking stupid show of support for a fellow church member. That's it. That's all she has done, unless there's something I'm missing that she's been accused of personally doing? Is there, was she actively involved in any of the bullshit the cult did? Did she know about it happening at the time at all?
It's a fucking nothing burger, and if anyone tried saying the same shit about someone that was wiccan, or muslim, or christian that did the exact same thing, it would be a shitstorm against the person trying to do so.
Shit, nobody can even point to her doing anything after she discovered the details of the shitstain to support him.
That's the fucking point, it's a witch hunt.
See, by your logic, it's okay if I am a anti-semite for example, just quietly.
So long as I'm only funding and supporting my Anton Jew crusade off stage and off screen, and never writing a song that says "kill the Jews", it's okay to take all my money from those concerts and funnel it into my organization that manufactures gas chambers "just in case".
A quiet tolerance of racism, bigotry, and abuse, leads to its proliferation. Period.
It's not a witch hunt. Her organization is directly responsible for funding hate and attacks on innocent people. The money she earns from the band will fund this. It is perfectly reasonable to object to her being able to jump onto this band's good reputation and use it to fund such efforts.
No, I'm saying that if every single member of a group is responsible for the worst actions of their religion, then every Catholic, Muslim, baptist, jew, and any sect of Christianity is just as bad.
Singling Armstrong out and ignoring the rest is bullshit.
There is no religion on this earth, with the possible exception of Jains, that isn't currently doing absolutely horrible shit.
And if you take into account past actions, anyone that's christian supports genocide just by being a member of their local church.
I'm not saying Scientology is some kind of good thing, it isn't.
I'm saying that all over the world, there are people that belong to religions that are horrible, but aren't themselves. There's people all over the world that go about their daily lives following their religion that they were raised in, but we're not putting the weight of someone else's actions on their shoulders.
But somehow, because this is scientology, she doesn't get that pass.
Why? Why is she any different from Garth Brooks being an active, practicing Christian? A religion responsible for the current wave of hate against LGBTQ people everywhere. There are musicians that are muslims, and I don't see anyone up in arms about that, and there are islamic groups right now commiting atrocities in multiple places.
Like it or not, there are entire generations of people raised in scientology that are no better or worse than christians or any other religion you pick.
So, why this woman? Why is she suddenly now responsible for all of it? Didn't see anyone raising hell about her for being the singer in her previous band. No, it's a bunch of butthurt children attacking her because it's this band, looking for any damn excuse to be shitty to other people.
And let's not forget that this all started up when one of Masterson's victims raised hell at her. Which is understandable, what with the horror she went through herself. But Armstrong? She wasn't one of the people writing letters after seeing the evidence, she isn't on that list. She abandoned that ship after the very early stages of the generic support from scientology. Unless anyone has any proof otherwise? I've yet to see any, and I've been looking today.
Let me say it again. If she's somehow evil for being a scientologist, then every single person in any religion (and they're all made up craziness) is evil for staying a member of their religion. If anyone of any older religion is given the benefit of the doubt at all, then she should have that same benefit given.
Nobody has yet to bring up anything other than her still being a scientologist to condemn her actions. I've not seen any evidence of wrongdoing that she did. To the contrary, up until this explosion, nobody had much of anything to say about her at all, and Dead Sara wasn't exactly an unheard of band. They just dropped an album three years ago, nobody was making accusations of anything then, nobody was on the warpath about her fronting a different band.
So, are we now going to start going after every religion? I'm fine with that, hold every single member of every religion responsible for the actions of the rest. It's a bad idea, but at least it's consistent.
Oh, so Scientology is a religion and not a cult, that's your stance?
And she has the right to believe in her cult and inflict their will on others?
You are comparing a top down controlled cult doing active harm to a diaspora of various religions with various levels of commitment, expression, and potential harm.
Reductio ad Adsurdum is your fallacy. A cult is not a religion, and you are comparing an actively harmful thing, lime thumbscrews, to the broad conceptual harm of an entire concept, like screws themself.
No, I'm saying that every religion is a cult. The only difference is whether or not people like them. They all engage I fuckery of the highest order. Catholicism is still top down cult, they just have numbers and history. A history of atrocities on a much greater scale than anything scientology has managed to achieve. It hasn't even been fifty years that gay people were even considered anything but scum to the Catholic church. It hasn't even been twenty since they were covering up child sexual abuse actively, and with knowledge it was going to keep happening if they didn't stop it.
I'm saying that in the face of everything any given religion has done, none of them deserve a break for individuals unless all of them do.
I'm saying that none of the people except the victim of Masterson's that made the public blame towards Armstrong were giving two shits about her. I haven't seen anyone I'm this thread that's said anything about scientology before this came along.
I'm saying that that's bullshit. I'm saying that it's a bunch of whiny little piss babies jumping into drama they didn't give a fuck about two weeks ago.
I'm saying that a witch hunt on the basis of a cult or religion is bullshit when there's no difference in them. Jainism, and maybe wicca have managed to not commit atrocities the last hundred years. And you'd likely find members of either of those that are bigger assholes than Armstrong has ever been
And, again, where were the complaints when she was fronting a different band? Nowhere. It's a bunch of piss babies whining because it's a bigger band, and that's bullshit. Either she was a monster a month ago, or she wasn't. If she was, then where were the attacks then?
It's hypocrisy. It's empty minded bullshit.
Now, to state it again, IDGAF about scientology. Tear it down, ban it, IDGAF if they're all thrown in jail. Just don't pretend they're worse than any other big religious cult. And, unless we're gong to go back thousands of years to some kind of ultra primitive version of animism, every fucking religion was a cult at some point. All the big ones operate as such, the monotheistic organized ones are just the worst about it.
Preach big daddy!
This insane edgelord "all religion is bad so shut up about it" shit.
There a literally billions of Muslims in the world. They are not all following their cults orders in lockstep, doing exactly what is said, holding one belief.
You are vastly oversimplifying and grouping Sunni and Shia and Catholic and Protestant and Episcopalian and Jewish and Hindu and Sikh and Buddhist and Shinto all together.
None of those groups move as one within their faith. None. Scientology does. Because Scientology is not "lol religion is the opitate of the masses" cult, Scientology is a LITERAL "we keep people imprisoned and torture them routinely and steal all our members income while we take their children from them" kind of literal cult. Not colloquial. Not from a certain point of view. This is their entire structure.
The "gospel of prosperity" is almost a cult, arguably a cult of personality, but these people a literally physically free to do anything they want. They are manipulated into donating. Scientologists are blackmailed and, again, LITERALLY imprisoned within the groups of the groups facilities.
One, is a "proverbial" cult, because it is manipulating the weak minded and is very sad and wrong too. One is a LITERAL cult. And these two things can both be bad while one can be CLEARLY more objectionable than the other.
Or am I now allowed to bash on all the christian performers out there too?
Who the fuck is stopping you dumbass? Go right ahead.
No one asked you to care or asked your opinion.
If you don't know the history behind Scientology and what happened to Chester, and why it matters. Sit the fuck down and stop acting like a fucking moron.
Man, people are just addicted to drama, and so locked into their own heads that they can't step outside of it for even a minute.
It's an abusive cult you fucking moron! Would you care if she was a literal Nazi? Probably not, because you're part of the fucking problem.
You do know that fedia.io has a rule about behavior, right?
Fuck cult, rape, murder and otherwise abusive spineless apologists like you!
For people who misread the headline and are confused: one of the people Masterson allegedly raped (her trial specifically is still ongoing according to the article) is firing shots at Linkin Park's new singer because she is a scientologist who turned out in support of Masterson.
What?
The new lead singer is a scientologist who supports rapists.
Damn. I might have enjoyed some new Linkin park but all this shit is so stupid. Who am I kidding I wouldn't have enjoyed it that much.
Definitely no less confusion after reading that.
Yeah, I tried. Link Pee new singer worship alien and defend rapist lmao.
To be clear, she allegedly was told to support him, went to his first trial, and has not been in contact with him or spoken on his behalf since. It's very possible the veil was lifted, so to speak, at that trial.
So I don't have anything to say about Masterson other than he's a monster. But to share a related personal anctodote.
A few years ago I started becoming more active with a friend I had grown distant with. She introduced me to her new circle of friends which included a guy named Barry. Who was awaiting trial for "something that was blown out of proportion", this was an ongoing very long process since covid pushed his court date back like two years in total. So I met him a few times and heard him describe the case. But I was always skeptical of his story, how do you just wake up in a bush with a gun to a police dog with zero recollection of the night before?
But I let it slide in the moment because I was in a pretty vulnerable lonely place after a bad breakup, however I made DAMN sure to actually attend his trial. The only one of the friend group who did, and he was very thankful and called me a good friend. But I really just wanted to hear the story from the defense.
Barry didn't mention the gun shots he fired as his ex girlfriend or the camera footage showing him stumbling around with a gun. He didn't mention that he was shooting outside when his home is next to a school and it caused the school to close, also didn't mention the threats he made. The lawyer for Barry couldn't make much of a defense for him, just that he was in AA and doesn't drink anymore.
Barry went to jail. And I made absolutely sure that everyone heard abiut what I learned. But the tradgey was that most people just thought I had a personal grudge against him. That I didn't know how crazy his ex GF was and that she totally (probably) provoked him.
Long story short, it's easy to talk around the truth to you friends, who of course will take your side. Going to a trial and hearing the evidence yourself can be a very eye opening experience.
Until she officially speaks out against the cult it is all speculation and cope from entitled fan apologists.
To each their own. I've watched a lot of movies with Tom Cruise and other shows with other Scientologist. The group is fucked, but I guess that's not where I draw the line in who I choose to allow in my media life, but I get that others do, and that's fine. I have my own moral lines with other things.
Have you heard "emptiness machine"? As far as I can tell it's a song about how she was ripped apart emotionally/psychologically by the Scientology cult.
Then why is she still doing things for them and why is she still a member?
There is this - https://variety.com/2024/music/news/linkin-emily-armstrong-criticism-danny-masterson-1236135990/
That's just an article about her weak ass PR statement. She didn't mentioned her cult even once, and called her fellow cult member a "friend". If that's denouncing Scientology for you then you probably also believe in Santa.
That's convicted rapist Danny Masterson if anyone was wondering who that was.
Was playing DOTA 2 a while back, ended up playing against a 5 man team that included an account named "DannyMasterson." I asked if it was really him, and someone on his team gave a semi-answer like "it just might be đ "
So I targeted his hero, and did a lot of all chat messages about how he was a POS rapist that's going to prison, and how scientology is a cult of predators. I just know that it was actually him, and he was with 4 other scientology cunts. We demolished'em. Never saw his handle again.
Personally as a life long LP fan, Chester's death hit when it happend. At the time I wasn't in the best place mentally and to hear someone's work I enjoyed committed suicide was not a positive event. Through counselling and therapy I was able to work through my problems in a healthy way and I suggest anyone going through anything similar to try the same. Scientoligists are anti therapy and anti psychology. The thought that proven methods of counsellings and psychological aid could of helped Chester or anyone in a similar situation being undermined by his replacement hurts to my core. I won't go into the other allegations this fact resonates with me the most but I don't think I can be a LP fan right now, with my personal feelings.
LP ended with Chester.
This could be a good band, but its not LP.
All cults are, really, because the therapist can see that the cult is basically an abusive partner x1000 and try to decondition the members.
"Plus, that money should be going to the church, or in this case your therapy sessions with us so you can become 'clear.' Don't you want to give us $300,000 so we can tell you your soul is an alien and Xenu is trying to eat it or enslave it or something?"
I thought Scientology was all about the therapy and working towards becoming clear.
Nah it's all a scam, it costs about $130,000 to become clear, and then another $30,000 ish to become level "OTIII," Then another $130,000 to become OTVIII which is the highest current level, just to learn that South Park's Scientology episode was actually accurate to what these people actually believe.
The Emptiness Machine, which is the song introducing her as vocalist, is her singing about how fucked up scientology is
She has no writing credit on the song man... Non of these lyrics are hers... Just incase I googled it as well and no mention..
It's good to see so many people now recognize scientology for the dangerous and manipulative cult it is and hope this starts to extend to the others like Falun Gong who are objectively worse in many regards but their propaganda tools like Epoch Times and their show Shen Yun are bizarrely popular in the US and much of Europe with hardly anyone ever commenting on the torture, rape, murder, and all the typical evil cult stuff they do.
Le French resisted a bit of colonialism (from wiki/Scientology_status_by_country#France):
đ«đ· W
That's cool and all, but this story is about Scientology.
If you haven't escaped a cult you might not understand, but cults control their members in similar ways, and understanding how one operates will help you to avoid others.
Look up the BITE model
Hmm
The Chinese government hates Falun Gong, so if anybody has a pro-China bias, it's the person agitating against Falun Gong in an unrelated thread.
And I'm saying it's weird to try to shut down conversations about cults in a conversation about cults.
lol gatekeeping which cults we can talk about in a thread.
I am 100% with the spirit of this statement. But people need to stop overusing "of which" and "in which", literally even Matt Mercer (who I assume is largely responsible for the recent popularization of this turn of phrase) uses it wrong half the time. In this instance, it should be either: "in which you are a part" or "which you are a part of" but instead they used both, presumably in an attempt to sound sophisticated, at which they failed. Which is unfortunate because I love a good lambasting of scientology
I think you mean, "In which is unfortunate because..."
I see what of which you did there
Cool way to respect the memory of Chester you got there LinkedIn Park.
I'm not going to fault anyone for having problems with this. I definitely am not comfortable with someone who comes out of a cult that actively opposes treating mental health "replacing" Chester, a man who struggled all his life before tragically taking his own life.
But people do need to understand: The reason scientology STILL has so much power is not because tom cruise has so many thetans. It is because, like all good cults, they have MASSIVE amounts of dirt on their members. And they make it very clear that anyone who speaks out against them will be destroyed. If you thought a British PM fucking a pig's carcass was a shock... There are similar stories with every cult and secret society.
So if the cult says jump? You jump. And while I remain very very conflicted, I do give Emily credit for being openly gay (a huge no no) and talking around regretting being part of the crew that was used to try to protect masterson. I would rather outright condemnation and apologies but... that probably won't happen unless she is ready to be destroyed by the cult.
Leah Remini deserves mad props for how incredibly brave she has been speaking out against scientology. But she also is MASSIVELY "lucky" that she basically escaped while they were running massive damage control for tom cruise vanceing up oprah's couch. And by the time they "recovered" she had gone from "Weren't you on the beach episode of Saved By The Bell?" to too high profile for them to really go after. Almost nobody else is going to have that luxury.
And as purely a music fan? Not huge on The Emptiness Machine outside of that initial reveal. But I kind of loved most of the Emily covers of the hits and give mad props to the band for making it a point to change the tempo or remix the songs a bit so she isn't just singing Chester's part. Time will tell what the album versions are and if they touch some of the songs they REALLY REALLY REALLY should not touch
Stupid twat. RIP Chester and LP. That name shouldn't be continued.
Hmmm, is she still a scientologist? Seems like a weird choice if she is, although a cult is a cult and that one is brutally hard to get out of. I think I can forgive people who sided with Masterson initially if their cult told them to (maybe not at much post-conviction) but I think it's problematic having anyone like that as the front to LP because of the suicide.
That said, if she renounced the cult at part of this gig (and ideally Masterson too) I think I'd be ok with her. I think what LP is trying to do is ultimately as good thing, especially since they're not trying to find someone exactly like Chester.
I really was enjoying Handmaiden's Tale (the TV series), then I happened to read the lead character is a true blue Scientologist. That fact made the show unwatchable.
Yes she still is. She apologized for supporting Masterson (I think, she didn't name him in the post). But she seems to be OK with her cult terrorizing Masterson's victims, among many others.
To be fair she was born into it, it's not easy breaking free from this kind of brainwashing.
Didn't know she was born into it, that is especially difficult. Thanks for the info, though.
She didn't even mention the cult in her half assed "apology" letter, calling her fellow cult member a "friend". The only way this whole setup would have worked would've been if she, at the first announcement of her being part of LP, renounced & denounced the entire cult for what it is, along with an actually truthful apology for being part in it.
From what Iâve read, they will do everything in their power to ruin someones life and career if they publicly leave Scientology. Thatâs not even denouncing it, just saying youâre not a part of it anymore.
Also people keep saying they want a âtruthful apologyâ, but if her statement is honest then she doesnât have much to apologize for. She said he was a friend, but then immediately stopped supporting him after hearing the evidence. I think most people would have done the same. So far though itâs all just their word vs. hers so Iâm holding out on any real judgement until some kind of evidence of something comes out.
I'm aware of Scientology's tactics. Her blocking the court seats is her being part of those tactics. Just like their goons who harassed one of the victims, or Masterson raping them.
And Masterson wasn't a "friend", but a fellow cult member. That's why she was there, that's why she blocked the court room to hold any of the victims relatives & friends. She's literally part of the problem and you people are making excuses for her instead of calling her out. Also, her idiotic "apology" HAD to specifically call out female victims, while part of the criticism is that she replaces a MALE victim.
Honestly no idea what kind of "evidence" you want before you acknowledge the truth.
Tbh it's really hard to reverse brainwashing and conditioning and speak out which means you lose your entire family and friends (that are also in the cult), whether you were raised in it or tricked into it yourself is even of little consequence.
To expect someone to say "oh hey I got a little professional success now I should by default make my friends and family and entire community hate me and make the most litigious cult mad at me (no way they'd want a piece of the success I'm leaving them for, right?), and go against all the crazy shit I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on trying to become 'clear' or 'OTVIII' (just to learn what South Park already taught us no less)." isn't wrong but it is unrealistic. She'll need a whole ass deconditioning really, or at least it's something that will take quite a long time.
Cults are fucked, way more so than you may think, and this whole "why doesn't she just leave" thing, it's basically the same question as "why doesn't she just leave her abusive boyfreind." Maybe it's impossible to understand either until you've been through one, idk.
You're hitting several fallacies here. First, her being potentially brainwashed is not an excuse. Yeah, that may be how she got there, but that does not mean that is how and who she should be - let alone have her replace Chester of all people.
Secondly, it's not about her success. No one should ever be in a cult like this, regardless of your fame. I expect the same thing from every other member too. However, in this case we have someone replace a SA victim that is in a cult that literally does the same fucking thing (and worse) to others.
One of the victims of Masterson and her husband, which this is kinda about, were also both members of Scientology. They even got their dogs murdered by them, yet they still fight - and that's what every member with a sane conscience should do.
Should be? No, nobody should be subjected to that abuse. But she is, and has been since she was born into it. Some things just are whether they "should be" or not. It's life. I bet if when she was born they said "will you defend our cult against rapists? If no say no and we won't let you in, if yes say nothing." She probably would have picked "No" had she not been a literal baby who had yet to learn english. But they don't, they slowly ramp up the abuse until escaping is at least psychologically neigh impossible.
You can blame her for being a victim of this cult all you want, it's not really my fight and my guess is you'll never understand until you've been in a comparable situation (which is hopefully never) so it would be a waste of time. I've said my piece.
I don't blame her for being a victim, I blame her for being an abuser. Cedric and his wife are victims. She is part of the problem.
Cedric and his wife are also victims. There are typically more than two victims involved in a cult.
The difference is I consider all the members of the cult who have been abused and manipulated into the position they're in by the leadership to be victims, and you only seem to consider someone a victim if they've already started the process of breaking free.
Yes, like the other women that Masterson raped for example. But I'm sticking to what's relevant to the topic of the article.
But you would also see the Nazis as victims, so I'm checking out at this point. No reason to keep talking to abuser apologists.
Not being familiar with each of their religions they are certainly victims of Masterson, they may or may not be victims of scientology. But the members of scientology (specificially not management), are victims of scientology. Cults prey on the weak, you don't have to too.
Tell me, do you also think women are only victims of their abusers once they leave too or is that criticism reserved only for people who are abused on a larger scale by their entire community?
If they help other women getting raped or harass other victims of the rapist then yes, they're part of the problem. But it's a bad faith argument anyway, so thanks for proving my point. Just like you calling Scientology a religion instead of a cult. I think that was a wonderful end for this comment chain.
Frankly I use religion and cult interchangeably, there's not much difference. The main separation is age, really. That means yes I often refer to say, Catholicism, as a cult as well.
(Edit: And btw, I referred to Masterson's victim's unknown religions as "religions," not "Scientology." If some of them are scientologists then I suppose I technically did by happenstance, but you pretending you didn't understand that just because you don't want to concede that I'm actually right and use it as a personal attack is pretty funny.)
You can just say you have no idea what it's like to be seriously abused and move on. Tbh, that's good, I hope for your sake you never know.
I was raped in Kindergarten but okay.
I don't think she's very good.
People that have reservations over her Scientology situation, I understand. People that are upset that LP got a new singer, regardless of who it is, I believe are selfish morons. When band members die or leave, the band should be allowed to move on. Chester was one one of a kind, and it's super sad that he's not still here, but when the lead singer in your band not only dies, but kills themselves and fucks over the band, then replacing that person should not be controversial at all. Mental health issues are real, and I have empathy, but Chester's actions were ultimately selfish and the closest victims are now under fire for continuing forward.
Imo joy division becoming new order was the right way to handle such tragedy, it's different because Linkin park were a record company manufactured band but he was in from the start and pretty much the only person anyone recognized plus he wrote a lot of the songs.
Otherwise you get record companies selling you tickets to black flag thirty years later who might as well be a cover band, it'll get to the point recognized names are still topping festivals a hundred years after the first original member died of old age. It benefits no one but corporate copyright holders.
Nah, a simple name change solves the problem, as mentioned with Joy Division/New Order.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, when Dio took over they should have renamed the band itself to Heaven and Hell, Sabbath lives and dies with the combo of Ozzy, Tony, Geezer, and Bill.
Why the fuck am I supposed to care about the religion of a performer?
Or am I now allowed to bash on all the christian performers out there too?
And I don't give a flying fuck about masterson either. You have a friend, you fucking back them until you have solid proof in front of you. Which, she did. Once she saw the proof, she stopped backing him. End of fucking story.
People are fucking idiots about this kind of shit.
The only one who believes scientology is a religion is the IRS lol
They treat it as one.
Cult, scam, whatever. They suck, but that isn't the point.
Idk i think the only thing religion has going for it is tradition. Scientology is missing the tradition component which makes me think followers are just really dumb ir desparate for connection. Scientologist celebs are trying to cash in their influence by selling it to the church and lying to dumb people to try to get them caught up in a cult.
I dont see a defensible position for someone like that. I would want to know who is doing that and not buy their stuff, personally.
Edit: she was born into it, so im wrong.
Her parents are like high ranking members, she was born into it. So either shes still in the church, which sucks but is more defensible than someone choosing it for themselves, or as evidenced by her queer lifestyle and song lyrics, shes left the church but doesnt want to completely burn bridges with all her former friends and family or possibly put them at risk by speaking out publicly.
I see a defensible position:
Cults are basically abusive boyfriends x1000.
If you leave or speak out, goodbye all family and friends you've ever known.
She was born into this.
You ever been brainwashed, either by a cult or just an abusive ex? I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but it would help you gain a deeper understandings of the inner workings of a cult, and how they retain their victims.
The previous singer died from suicide and scientologists are very anti mental health treatment. I can't blame anyone for being bothered by that.
It's fucking dumb.
The only thing that matters is if she can do the job.
I'm not blaming anyone, I'm just saying they should use their brain for something useful.
The whole thing is beyond stupid and into absurdity at this point.
It's a fucking band
Are you deliberately missing the point?
no, I'm disagreeing with it.
It's not the same thing as the NAACP at all.
It isn't some kind of organization dedicated to anti-cult endeavor, nor even a band dedicated to anything other than making music. That's it. That's the entirety of what linkin park is. They're an amazing fucking band that makes amazing fucking music.
Nothing about making music is predicated on the beliefs of the members unless they're making music about those beliefs, and even then it doesn't mean they have to do it all the time.
Are we going to flip out on Garth Brooks and Chance the rapper now? Both of them are openly supporters of a religion that has caused or condoned wars, genocide, and even today actively seek to crush the rights of other people. Christianity is just a big cult that demands loyalty and money and strict adherence to the rules of whichever sect of the cult you belong to, and nobody is up their ass for the actions of the rest of their religion.
Or is it only the cults we like that get a pass? Is that what it is? Sammy Davis Jr is cool, what with being a Satanist and jewish (at the same time, which is actually pretty damn cool), and Reba Macentire gets a pass because reasons, but not this woman that grew up in a cult we don't like as much?
It's bullshit. It's empty headed drek.
Now, if Armstrong gets up on stage and starts trying to convert people that didn't show up for that, that's a different issue. If she starts writing songs with LP that tear down what they've always claimed to believe, that's a different issue.
I simply do not give a fuck about what fiction a person believes in. It has nothing to do with the music unless they make it about that.
Anyone wanna tear Scientology down? Go for it! It's a giant scam as well as a cult. Tear down all of them as far as I'm concerned. Make it illegal, remove all non profit status from all of the brain washing cults that get called religion. But that's still a separate issue from some band making music.
It's the old art vs artist argument, only in this case, all the artist did was get raised in a disliked religion, and then take part in a truly fucking stupid show of support for a fellow church member. That's it. That's all she has done, unless there's something I'm missing that she's been accused of personally doing? Is there, was she actively involved in any of the bullshit the cult did? Did she know about it happening at the time at all?
It's a fucking nothing burger, and if anyone tried saying the same shit about someone that was wiccan, or muslim, or christian that did the exact same thing, it would be a shitstorm against the person trying to do so.
Shit, nobody can even point to her doing anything after she discovered the details of the shitstain to support him.
That's the fucking point, it's a witch hunt.
See, by your logic, it's okay if I am a anti-semite for example, just quietly.
So long as I'm only funding and supporting my Anton Jew crusade off stage and off screen, and never writing a song that says "kill the Jews", it's okay to take all my money from those concerts and funnel it into my organization that manufactures gas chambers "just in case".
A quiet tolerance of racism, bigotry, and abuse, leads to its proliferation. Period.
It's not a witch hunt. Her organization is directly responsible for funding hate and attacks on innocent people. The money she earns from the band will fund this. It is perfectly reasonable to object to her being able to jump onto this band's good reputation and use it to fund such efforts.
No, I'm saying that if every single member of a group is responsible for the worst actions of their religion, then every Catholic, Muslim, baptist, jew, and any sect of Christianity is just as bad.
Singling Armstrong out and ignoring the rest is bullshit.
There is no religion on this earth, with the possible exception of Jains, that isn't currently doing absolutely horrible shit.
And if you take into account past actions, anyone that's christian supports genocide just by being a member of their local church.
I'm not saying Scientology is some kind of good thing, it isn't.
I'm saying that all over the world, there are people that belong to religions that are horrible, but aren't themselves. There's people all over the world that go about their daily lives following their religion that they were raised in, but we're not putting the weight of someone else's actions on their shoulders.
But somehow, because this is scientology, she doesn't get that pass.
Why? Why is she any different from Garth Brooks being an active, practicing Christian? A religion responsible for the current wave of hate against LGBTQ people everywhere. There are musicians that are muslims, and I don't see anyone up in arms about that, and there are islamic groups right now commiting atrocities in multiple places.
Like it or not, there are entire generations of people raised in scientology that are no better or worse than christians or any other religion you pick.
So, why this woman? Why is she suddenly now responsible for all of it? Didn't see anyone raising hell about her for being the singer in her previous band. No, it's a bunch of butthurt children attacking her because it's this band, looking for any damn excuse to be shitty to other people.
And let's not forget that this all started up when one of Masterson's victims raised hell at her. Which is understandable, what with the horror she went through herself. But Armstrong? She wasn't one of the people writing letters after seeing the evidence, she isn't on that list. She abandoned that ship after the very early stages of the generic support from scientology. Unless anyone has any proof otherwise? I've yet to see any, and I've been looking today.
Let me say it again. If she's somehow evil for being a scientologist, then every single person in any religion (and they're all made up craziness) is evil for staying a member of their religion. If anyone of any older religion is given the benefit of the doubt at all, then she should have that same benefit given.
Nobody has yet to bring up anything other than her still being a scientologist to condemn her actions. I've not seen any evidence of wrongdoing that she did. To the contrary, up until this explosion, nobody had much of anything to say about her at all, and Dead Sara wasn't exactly an unheard of band. They just dropped an album three years ago, nobody was making accusations of anything then, nobody was on the warpath about her fronting a different band.
So, are we now going to start going after every religion? I'm fine with that, hold every single member of every religion responsible for the actions of the rest. It's a bad idea, but at least it's consistent.
Oh, so Scientology is a religion and not a cult, that's your stance?
And she has the right to believe in her cult and inflict their will on others?
You are comparing a top down controlled cult doing active harm to a diaspora of various religions with various levels of commitment, expression, and potential harm.
Reductio ad Adsurdum is your fallacy. A cult is not a religion, and you are comparing an actively harmful thing, lime thumbscrews, to the broad conceptual harm of an entire concept, like screws themself.
No, I'm saying that every religion is a cult. The only difference is whether or not people like them. They all engage I fuckery of the highest order. Catholicism is still top down cult, they just have numbers and history. A history of atrocities on a much greater scale than anything scientology has managed to achieve. It hasn't even been fifty years that gay people were even considered anything but scum to the Catholic church. It hasn't even been twenty since they were covering up child sexual abuse actively, and with knowledge it was going to keep happening if they didn't stop it.
I'm saying that in the face of everything any given religion has done, none of them deserve a break for individuals unless all of them do.
I'm saying that none of the people except the victim of Masterson's that made the public blame towards Armstrong were giving two shits about her. I haven't seen anyone I'm this thread that's said anything about scientology before this came along.
I'm saying that that's bullshit. I'm saying that it's a bunch of whiny little piss babies jumping into drama they didn't give a fuck about two weeks ago.
I'm saying that a witch hunt on the basis of a cult or religion is bullshit when there's no difference in them. Jainism, and maybe wicca have managed to not commit atrocities the last hundred years. And you'd likely find members of either of those that are bigger assholes than Armstrong has ever been
And, again, where were the complaints when she was fronting a different band? Nowhere. It's a bunch of piss babies whining because it's a bigger band, and that's bullshit. Either she was a monster a month ago, or she wasn't. If she was, then where were the attacks then?
It's hypocrisy. It's empty minded bullshit.
Now, to state it again, IDGAF about scientology. Tear it down, ban it, IDGAF if they're all thrown in jail. Just don't pretend they're worse than any other big religious cult. And, unless we're gong to go back thousands of years to some kind of ultra primitive version of animism, every fucking religion was a cult at some point. All the big ones operate as such, the monotheistic organized ones are just the worst about it.
Preach big daddy!
This insane edgelord "all religion is bad so shut up about it" shit.
There a literally billions of Muslims in the world. They are not all following their cults orders in lockstep, doing exactly what is said, holding one belief.
You are vastly oversimplifying and grouping Sunni and Shia and Catholic and Protestant and Episcopalian and Jewish and Hindu and Sikh and Buddhist and Shinto all together.
None of those groups move as one within their faith. None. Scientology does. Because Scientology is not "lol religion is the opitate of the masses" cult, Scientology is a LITERAL "we keep people imprisoned and torture them routinely and steal all our members income while we take their children from them" kind of literal cult. Not colloquial. Not from a certain point of view. This is their entire structure.
The "gospel of prosperity" is almost a cult, arguably a cult of personality, but these people a literally physically free to do anything they want. They are manipulated into donating. Scientologists are blackmailed and, again, LITERALLY imprisoned within the groups of the groups facilities.
One, is a "proverbial" cult, because it is manipulating the weak minded and is very sad and wrong too. One is a LITERAL cult. And these two things can both be bad while one can be CLEARLY more objectionable than the other.
This is honestly the worst-faith arguing I've seen in a looong time. To the point that it's actually funny when I've read it a couple times
Who the fuck is stopping you dumbass? Go right ahead.
No one asked you to care or asked your opinion.
If you don't know the history behind Scientology and what happened to Chester, and why it matters. Sit the fuck down and stop acting like a fucking moron.
Man, people are just addicted to drama, and so locked into their own heads that they can't step outside of it for even a minute.
It's an abusive cult you fucking moron! Would you care if she was a literal Nazi? Probably not, because you're part of the fucking problem.
You do know that fedia.io has a rule about behavior, right?
Fuck cult, rape, murder and otherwise abusive spineless apologists like you!