If concessions can not be made to save these lives even with the entire world watching, then I do not want to hear falsehoods about caring for human rights.
I've been very cautious to reserve the word "Genocide" because I didn't want to devalue it with hyperbole. For years, I've said that Israel is ethnically cleansing historic Palestine. But reading this article... I think this is the point where it becomes genocide, full and proper.
It's shocking to bear witness to.
By the UN definition, it's been genocide for a long fucking time
Same UN which doesn't consider Hamas to be a terrorist organization. So there's that. And no, am not justifying what's being done to civilians.
I have been unable to find a list of who the UN does consider to be a terrorist organization. Does the UN not call Hamas a terrorist organization because that's just a term the UN doesn't use?
He's gonna have to check Facebook and get back to you on that.
The UN definitely acknowledges the existence of terrorists groups
The left hate to be called antisemites, so hand-wring over civilian deaths, but ultimately side with Israel.
Who are these voices on the "left" that you say are supporting Israel?
Biden
Biden is not the left lmao
True, but effectively on the political stage, he is the opposition. Understandable that non-politically online people/normal people call him left.
Agreed but you're splitting hairs. My grandparents who voted for Biden aren't really "the left" either.
My ex who i've convinced to switch sides on this issue but is too afraid to say anything publicly because she doesn't think she knows enough of the history to take a stance isn't really "the left", but she voted Biden too.
Pretty much all of the Democratic leadership except Ilhan Omar.
They're not leftists but they are "the left"
The "viable left" I suppose.
Jeremy Corbyn wasn't that left either, yet you go to one Hamas Terrorist funeral, and suddenly you're a terrorist sympathiser and out come the photos at election time.
Sure, you can be left in the West, but not in a way where you'll get even a sniff of power.
And this is where you accuse anybody right of being a full communist of not being left enough, so we can save ourselves that interaction.
Keir Starmer?
Everything I read about this dude characterizes him as abandoning left wing policy in favor of center, center-right policy.
4th paragraph of his wikipedia page
His leadership has been characterised by movement towards the political centre and abandonment of the left-wing platform of his leadership campaign, as well as by opposition to some of the government response to the COVID-19 pandemic and issues such as Partygate
I just think it's strange for you to insinuate that the position of the left is that of Israel's.
Hamas doing something horrible doesn't make it OK to starve the entirety of Gaza though, not everyone inside Gaza is Hamas
Speaking of, Hamas has over 1MM liters of fuel, and ample supplies of fresh water, that they refuse to distribute in Gaza. They also refuse to return hostages, which would also immediately lift the siege.
The reason they stockpiled so much is their tunnel ventilation systems run on generators (which is also the reason Israel is trying to deny them fuel, because tunnel fighting is a nightmare and that's what is coming)
Hamas doing something horrible doesn’t make it OK to starve the entirety of Gaza
Terrible thing Hamas is doing
It's not unreasonable to expect an enemy government to feed their people, rather than your country
Hamas doing something horrible doesn’t make it OK to starve the entirety of Gaza
I mean we can copy the same comments to another over and over all day if ya want.
I've got 3 hrs til my plane boards
FWIW I'd strongly support a heavily-militarized aid station set up in the south but you know as well as I do that people would still blame Israel for Hamas gunning down people headed south.
Down near the border crossing that Israel keeps bombing?
Yes. Hence "heavily militarized."
You seem to think this crossing is like, a single street. It is not. It's a misleading name the same way the "Palestinian refugees camps" are really modern cities of 100k people with permanent, concrete buildings the same as any other city.
Uh no I don't think that it's a street. How does anything you said even address the point i made that Israel keeps bombing the crossing?
Oh right it didn't.
Care to try again and actually address the point?
Or you can just talk about some unrelated shit and try to deflect once more.
Sometimes there are Hamas terrorists in places killing people and those people get bombs dropped on them. That's the "bombing the crossing" thing you're discussing.
Your assumption is that this means Israel is targeting civilians or that it is impossible to do this while providing aid in the same geographic area. This is easily proven false because aid trucks, foreign nationals, and lots of people are in those areas and are not dead - because those areas are large.
This makes me believe you are totally ignorant of how the geography actually works, which I am still convinced of.
A heavily militarized aid area would not be enterable by terrorists and thus is a safe haven for providing aid. This is why I think it should be a priority for Israel
Not sure why you're bringing the attitude when you're the one who doesn't understand the situation and is just parroting shit blindly.
Bloodiest assault in history? You have to be joking.
Uhh yeah? This is the bloodiest attack Palestine has ever done against Israel. Are you stunned? 😂
Forget the tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians that Israel has killed. Those don't matter at all in the context of your very well thought out point.
Moved the goalposts and you're still wrong.
I'm demonstrably right though 😂
Wrong and ratio'd
Being one of the only lefties with common sense, I get ratio'd quite often. But I don't need fake points from imaginary online friends to feel good about myself 😂
"Everyone I meet is an asshole"
Aww you're even downvoting my comments 😂
Wasn't me.
But it stopped when I mentioned it. How peculiar 🤔🤣
Hospitals in Gaza are ceasing to function because they are running out of water and fuel for generators, while being overwhelmed by huge numbers of casualties and civilians seeking shelter from Israeli bombing.
No new fuel has been allowed into Gaza since the 7 October Hamas attack on Israel, starving hospital generators as well as the desalination and pumping plant essential to the water system.
Video posted on Tuesday showed the Indonesian hospital in north Gaza in total blackout after the generators failed, with the sole illumination from mobile phones.
Tanya Haj-Hassan, a Canadian-based paediatric intensive care and humanitarian doctor who helps run a western support network for Gaza health workers, said a third of hospitals in the territory had ceased to function.
Another member of the western support group, Omar Abdel-Mannan, a senior paediatric neurology resident at Great Ormond Street children’s hospital in London, said: “Doctors on the ground are using minimal anaesthesia so they can economise on it.”
Medical experts from the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) visited hospitals in Gaza on Tuesday and confirmed the dire reports from doctors on the ground.
The original article contains 1,174 words, the summary contains 187 words. Saved 84%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Holy fuck, Lemmy is being brigaded by the pro-israel trolls.
Don't know if this thread was linked elsewhere but the shift in sentiment in newer posts are jarring
I don't know where you get that from, all comments in this thread are critical of Israel...
Indian BJP spammers: "Finally, a worthy opponent! Our battle will be legendary!"
You realize that this is the EXACT outcome they would have expected right? You think Hamas expected Israel to surrender to paragliders? This was what they WANTED to happen. Now the whole world is watching Israel losing their shit on civilians and their international support is crumbling all around them. Hamas doesn't give a shit about the palestinian people, but they do care about getting Israel into a position to be openly attacked by its Arab neighbors without the US and Europe coming in to fight on their behalf. It looks like that plan is actually going pretty well.
Isreal has the most support it has had in decades. They have widespread support to remove Hamas, or at least seriously damage Hamas, from most of their allies.
The US and Canada are both backing off. Who is coming to thier aid?
The U.S. is about to dump billions in military aid for Isreal.
Here's France:
Amid fears the fighting to spiral into a wider regional war, French President Emmanuel Macron arrived in Tel Aviv on Tuesday and told top Israeli officials that he came “to express our support and solidarity and share your pain” as well as to assure Israel it is “not left alone in the war against terrorism.”
Support from the US has literally never been higher lmao
You, my friend, are stuck in a bubble if you think this.
"Stop making me murder you!"
That's a pay for supporting terrorism
You sound like a highly educated individual
Ahh yes. All of these children getting killed is justified.
you're just cringe and illogical at this point, these aren't military hospitals.
Even if they were military hospitals, bombing military hospitals is a war crime.
Further proof Hamas terrorists hate Gazan Palestinians as much as they hate everyone else.
*People are downvoting because they refuse to admit Hamas terrorists use Palestinians as shields only; without a care for civilian safety as a tool to protect themselves.
This is the thing. Palestinians aren't treated as humans, but as tool or a weapon.
Even the countries that supposedly support Palestine, not a single of them offers to take refugees.
The truth is they hate Palestinians too (wrong Muslim sect) they just hate Jews a little bit more than them, but they have no problem if both kill each other.
What do you mean? The majority of palestinian are sunni muslim like the majority of arab countries and the vast majority of palestinian refugees outside of palestinian territory/israel are in the neighboring arab countries (albeit in horrible living conditions in refugee camps most of the time).
WTF are you talking about?
Those countries don't offer to take them in because they will not be let back after this is over.
The majority of Palestinians are sunni, and even if they weren't, that never really mattered to any country besides Iran.
And the countries of the Levant are known for being very secular, unlike Isn'trael.
Again, treating them like tools.
If a country is accepting refugees it is assumed those people will live in your country. Those countries won't accept them as refugees, because they hate them, and don't really want to help, they want Israel to burn, and if it takes Palestinians with them "even better".
That's the truth, about "supporting" Palestine by those Muslim countries.
Where did you pick up that idea? Most Palestinians are Sunni just like their neighbours.
Sorry. I oversimplified it. The ethnicity (and racism) and also prior experience helping also matters.
Supposedly Egypt is also Suni, but not only they don't want let refugees in, or even accept the Gaza strip. US had to negotiate with them to let humanitarian aid in.
Iran which looks like it had part behind this attack and supposedly are supporters of Palestinians, similarly won't do anything to help.
Their sympathy with Palestine is only when western cameras are rolling.
It's simple to see why no one wants Palestinian refugees. Last time countries accepted them they had a civil war on their hands. This way everyone lets Israel take the blame and pretend not to notice.
wrong Muslim sect
There's a bit of that but only as far as Lebanon is concerned, because Hezbollah is Shia and Palestinian Muslims (and especially Hamas) are mostly Sunni and there will likely be a fight for power between Hezbollah and Hamas if the latter ever infiltrate Lebanon, because for the past 13 centuries there has never been peace on the same soil between Shia and Sunni armed groups, which is why Lebanon is not opening its doors to Palestinians.
With regards to Egypt, sect isn't really the issue as both are Sunni. However, the military that is ruling Egypt has a very rough history with the Muslim Brotherhood (which was very violent back then, almost nothing to do with Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood) from which Hamas was born, so they likely don't want Hamas terrorists infiltrating Egypt either.
So neither Egypt nor Lebanon want Palestinians as they're placing their security and more importantly their political interests above Palestinian lives.
If concessions can not be made to save these lives even with the entire world watching, then I do not want to hear falsehoods about caring for human rights.
I've been very cautious to reserve the word "Genocide" because I didn't want to devalue it with hyperbole. For years, I've said that Israel is ethnically cleansing historic Palestine. But reading this article... I think this is the point where it becomes genocide, full and proper.
It's shocking to bear witness to.
By the UN definition, it's been genocide for a long fucking time
Same UN which doesn't consider Hamas to be a terrorist organization. So there's that. And no, am not justifying what's being done to civilians.
I have been unable to find a list of who the UN does consider to be a terrorist organization. Does the UN not call Hamas a terrorist organization because that's just a term the UN doesn't use?
He's gonna have to check Facebook and get back to you on that.
The UN definitely acknowledges the existence of terrorists groups
I couldn't find a list either but there's not a lot of documents under the "Foreign terrorist fighters" category -> https://www.un.org/counterterrorism/un-documents
And Biden, Blinken, etc have lashed themselves to the mast next to Netanyahu and Likud, promising a blank check no matter what.
Usually I'm OK with Biden (I think the way he handled Ukraine was pretty damn good) but this is a disastrous decision on our part.
I can only hope that his tough talk in public is covering for behind the scenes pressure on Isreal to have a ceasefire.
It is genocide either way by definition. Whether it's cultural or straight murder.
What an absolute nightmare. Those poor people are caught in the middle of a conflict they can do nothing about. It’s horrific.
I find it both horrifying and nauseating at the same time. This makes me sad to be a human being.
Look for the helpers.
and wonder why you don't see more
The answer is in the video. The media rarely shines a light on those groups.
Sometimes they do though. Remember the media response to the Turkey earthquakes? I remember heaps of international rescue teams getting the spotlight.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Look for the helpers.
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Human beings are just about the worst thing to happen to this planet.
I really hope israel will loose their wildcard and be accountable for all this shit. Just remove their privileges!
They won't. The extermination of Palestinians has been a stated goal of Israel and its allies for decades.
They're not going to be punished for pulling the trigger.
This is the full transcript of the recording between an Israeli IDF officer and a resident of northern Gaza
"Hello?"
"Muhammad?"
"Yes"
"How are you?"
"Yes"
"This is an officer from the IDF calling you. For your own safety I'm asking you to go to Khan Yunis as fast as possible "
"Where to?"
"In the direction of Khan Yunis. ASAP. I don't want you to put yourself at risk, that's why I'm telling you to go there."
"All the roads are blocked"
"Where you are right now isn't safe, you need to.. blocked where? Who blocked it? Hamas?"
"Yes"
"What?"
"Yes, that's correct"
"Where did they block the road?"
"At Salah ad-Din"
"Salah ad-Din?"
"Yeah"
"How did they block it?"
"They're just forcing people to go back home"
"Are they putting cars on the road? Police cars or.."
"Yes yes"
"How exactly? Explain it to me. Please, did you see it with your own eyes?"
"In a car, people are going south and they're just bringing them back home"
"How did they block the road?"
"They're shooting at people"
"Shooting what? Are they shooting at people that want to leave?"
"Yes yes yes"
https://twitter.com/ItayBlumental/status/1717466384794300882?t=7HRQJ5h29HRlfhN1fCl3mQ&s=19
And then what did the IDF forces do to Northern Gaza?
Ask people to leave for their own protection before intense urban fighting
The Israeli policy of bombing first and asking later makes this impossible.
It's hard to go against them in the West.
The right hate Muslims so side with Israel.
The left hate to be called antisemites, so hand-wring over civilian deaths, but ultimately side with Israel.
Who are these voices on the "left" that you say are supporting Israel?
Biden
Biden is not the left lmao
True, but effectively on the political stage, he is the opposition. Understandable that non-politically online people/normal people call him left.
Agreed but you're splitting hairs. My grandparents who voted for Biden aren't really "the left" either.
My ex who i've convinced to switch sides on this issue but is too afraid to say anything publicly because she doesn't think she knows enough of the history to take a stance isn't really "the left", but she voted Biden too.
Pretty much all of the Democratic leadership except Ilhan Omar.
They're not leftists but they are "the left"
The "viable left" I suppose.
Jeremy Corbyn wasn't that left either, yet you go to one Hamas Terrorist funeral, and suddenly you're a terrorist sympathiser and out come the photos at election time.
Sure, you can be left in the West, but not in a way where you'll get even a sniff of power.
https://labour.org.uk/updates/press-releases/keir-starmers-statement-to-the-commons-on-israel-gaza-2/
And this is where you accuse anybody right of being a full communist of not being left enough, so we can save ourselves that interaction.
Keir Starmer?
Everything I read about this dude characterizes him as abandoning left wing policy in favor of center, center-right policy.
4th paragraph of his wikipedia page
I just think it's strange for you to insinuate that the position of the left is that of Israel's.
No one on the left is hand wringing over the civilian deaths but ultimately siding with Israel. Literally no one.
You recall that Hamas attacked Israel in the bloodiest assault in history, right?
You guys make me embarrassed to call myself a lefty.
Well gee, that sure does give Isreal the right to do ethnic cleansing. It's self defense after all so everything is permissible. /s
Hamas doing something horrible doesn't make it OK to starve the entirety of Gaza though, not everyone inside Gaza is Hamas
Speaking of, Hamas has over 1MM liters of fuel, and ample supplies of fresh water, that they refuse to distribute in Gaza. They also refuse to return hostages, which would also immediately lift the siege.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-gaza-photos-show-half-million-liters-of-fuel-held-by-hamas/
Edit to add:
The reason they stockpiled so much is their tunnel ventilation systems run on generators (which is also the reason Israel is trying to deny them fuel, because tunnel fighting is a nightmare and that's what is coming)
Here's a great video with more info https://www.youtube.com/live/xfc0nHLgDuY?si=8P-MddAIFXsFt-mA
It's not unreasonable to expect an enemy government to feed their people, rather than your country
I mean we can copy the same comments to another over and over all day if ya want.
I've got 3 hrs til my plane boards
FWIW I'd strongly support a heavily-militarized aid station set up in the south but you know as well as I do that people would still blame Israel for Hamas gunning down people headed south.
Down near the border crossing that Israel keeps bombing?
Yes. Hence "heavily militarized."
You seem to think this crossing is like, a single street. It is not. It's a misleading name the same way the "Palestinian refugees camps" are really modern cities of 100k people with permanent, concrete buildings the same as any other city.
Uh no I don't think that it's a street. How does anything you said even address the point i made that Israel keeps bombing the crossing?
Oh right it didn't.
Care to try again and actually address the point?
Or you can just talk about some unrelated shit and try to deflect once more.
Sometimes there are Hamas terrorists in places killing people and those people get bombs dropped on them. That's the "bombing the crossing" thing you're discussing.
Your assumption is that this means Israel is targeting civilians or that it is impossible to do this while providing aid in the same geographic area. This is easily proven false because aid trucks, foreign nationals, and lots of people are in those areas and are not dead - because those areas are large.
This makes me believe you are totally ignorant of how the geography actually works, which I am still convinced of.
A heavily militarized aid area would not be enterable by terrorists and thus is a safe haven for providing aid. This is why I think it should be a priority for Israel
Not sure why you're bringing the attitude when you're the one who doesn't understand the situation and is just parroting shit blindly.
Until it sinks in.
Enjoy eternity, because youre just factually wrong lol
Palestine is protecting and aiding Hamas, though.
Bloodiest assault in history? You have to be joking.
Uhh yeah? This is the bloodiest attack Palestine has ever done against Israel. Are you stunned? 😂
Forget the tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians that Israel has killed. Those don't matter at all in the context of your very well thought out point.
Moved the goalposts and you're still wrong.
I'm demonstrably right though 😂
Wrong and ratio'd
Being one of the only lefties with common sense, I get ratio'd quite often. But I don't need fake points from imaginary online friends to feel good about myself 😂
"Everyone I meet is an asshole"
Aww you're even downvoting my comments 😂
Wasn't me.
But it stopped when I mentioned it. How peculiar 🤔🤣
(x) Doubt.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Hospitals in Gaza are ceasing to function because they are running out of water and fuel for generators, while being overwhelmed by huge numbers of casualties and civilians seeking shelter from Israeli bombing.
No new fuel has been allowed into Gaza since the 7 October Hamas attack on Israel, starving hospital generators as well as the desalination and pumping plant essential to the water system.
Video posted on Tuesday showed the Indonesian hospital in north Gaza in total blackout after the generators failed, with the sole illumination from mobile phones.
Tanya Haj-Hassan, a Canadian-based paediatric intensive care and humanitarian doctor who helps run a western support network for Gaza health workers, said a third of hospitals in the territory had ceased to function.
Another member of the western support group, Omar Abdel-Mannan, a senior paediatric neurology resident at Great Ormond Street children’s hospital in London, said: “Doctors on the ground are using minimal anaesthesia so they can economise on it.”
Medical experts from the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) visited hospitals in Gaza on Tuesday and confirmed the dire reports from doctors on the ground.
The original article contains 1,174 words, the summary contains 187 words. Saved 84%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Holy fuck, Lemmy is being brigaded by the pro-israel trolls.
Don't know if this thread was linked elsewhere but the shift in sentiment in newer posts are jarring
I don't know where you get that from, all comments in this thread are critical of Israel...
Indian BJP spammers: "Finally, a worthy opponent! Our battle will be legendary!"
Hamas really really fucked up this time.
You realize that this is the EXACT outcome they would have expected right? You think Hamas expected Israel to surrender to paragliders? This was what they WANTED to happen. Now the whole world is watching Israel losing their shit on civilians and their international support is crumbling all around them. Hamas doesn't give a shit about the palestinian people, but they do care about getting Israel into a position to be openly attacked by its Arab neighbors without the US and Europe coming in to fight on their behalf. It looks like that plan is actually going pretty well.
Isreal has the most support it has had in decades. They have widespread support to remove Hamas, or at least seriously damage Hamas, from most of their allies.
The US and Canada are both backing off. Who is coming to thier aid?
The U.S. is about to dump billions in military aid for Isreal.
Here's France:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israels-increased-strikes-across-gaza-kill-more-than-700-people-in-the-past-day-palestinians-say
Support from the US has literally never been higher lmao
You, my friend, are stuck in a bubble if you think this.
"Stop making me murder you!"
That's a pay for supporting terrorism
You sound like a highly educated individual
Ahh yes. All of these children getting killed is justified.
you're just cringe and illogical at this point, these aren't military hospitals.
Even if they were military hospitals, bombing military hospitals is a war crime.
Further proof Hamas terrorists hate Gazan Palestinians as much as they hate everyone else.
*People are downvoting because they refuse to admit Hamas terrorists use Palestinians as shields only; without a care for civilian safety as a tool to protect themselves.
This is the thing. Palestinians aren't treated as humans, but as tool or a weapon.
Even the countries that supposedly support Palestine, not a single of them offers to take refugees.
The truth is they hate Palestinians too (wrong Muslim sect) they just hate Jews a little bit more than them, but they have no problem if both kill each other.
What do you mean? The majority of palestinian are sunni muslim like the majority of arab countries and the vast majority of palestinian refugees outside of palestinian territory/israel are in the neighboring arab countries (albeit in horrible living conditions in refugee camps most of the time).
WTF are you talking about?
Those countries don't offer to take them in because they will not be let back after this is over.
The majority of Palestinians are sunni, and even if they weren't, that never really mattered to any country besides Iran.
And the countries of the Levant are known for being very secular, unlike Isn'trael.
Again, treating them like tools.
If a country is accepting refugees it is assumed those people will live in your country. Those countries won't accept them as refugees, because they hate them, and don't really want to help, they want Israel to burn, and if it takes Palestinians with them "even better".
That's the truth, about "supporting" Palestine by those Muslim countries.
@takeda
Where did you pick up that idea? Most Palestinians are Sunni just like their neighbours.
Sorry. I oversimplified it. The ethnicity (and racism) and also prior experience helping also matters.
Supposedly Egypt is also Suni, but not only they don't want let refugees in, or even accept the Gaza strip. US had to negotiate with them to let humanitarian aid in.
Iran which looks like it had part behind this attack and supposedly are supporters of Palestinians, similarly won't do anything to help.
Their sympathy with Palestine is only when western cameras are rolling.
It's simple to see why no one wants Palestinian refugees. Last time countries accepted them they had a civil war on their hands. This way everyone lets Israel take the blame and pretend not to notice.
There's a bit of that but only as far as Lebanon is concerned, because Hezbollah is Shia and Palestinian Muslims (and especially Hamas) are mostly Sunni and there will likely be a fight for power between Hezbollah and Hamas if the latter ever infiltrate Lebanon, because for the past 13 centuries there has never been peace on the same soil between Shia and Sunni armed groups, which is why Lebanon is not opening its doors to Palestinians.
With regards to Egypt, sect isn't really the issue as both are Sunni. However, the military that is ruling Egypt has a very rough history with the Muslim Brotherhood (which was very violent back then, almost nothing to do with Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood) from which Hamas was born, so they likely don't want Hamas terrorists infiltrating Egypt either.
So neither Egypt nor Lebanon want Palestinians as they're placing their security and more importantly their political interests above Palestinian lives.
even if that was true, the other side could just stop hitting the shield all the time and do precise targeting.
It's true.
"Stop making me murder you!"
Hamas hasn't yet released the fuel they've been hoarding?
Have they been hoarding it in the hospital?
You know all about their fuel stocks? You must work for the CIA or something.
Blame the world's leader and the people that think they should be supporting them.
Take matters into your own hands. Change is now if you make the change. Live for reality and not tradition. Bring on the war.
Imagine saying this shit when powerless children are being butchered by israeli bombs...
how heartless some people have become
It's not really up to us foreigners. We could send them fuel but Hamas would just confiscate it.