Biden considering executive action to close southern border, sources say
cnn.com
And you all told me the blue maga border bill that Republicans rejected was 4d chess.
And you all told me the blue maga border bill that Republicans rejected was 4d chess.
I won't rehash my opinions, they already been better said here, but I want to add I hate the phrase "close the border". What the fuck does that mean, was it open, did the last one in forget to close the door?
From the article, he is considering taking action "to restrict migrants’ ability to seek asylum at the US-Mexico border if they crossed illegally" which has a lot more nuance and is important to the discussion. So this will specifically affect people who have a legitimate claim to asylum, the border was never "open" to any migrants without it (or a visa).
"Close the border" is ridiculous rhetoric which appeals to far too many of the electorate. Unfortunately, we need to change opinions on the ground before it's no longer viable to use.
I think that's why framing the debate is so important.
And so on. This isn't about stopping immigration, it's about punishing those who do. [Too] Many will still support that, but it's a harder stance to take.
This is some straight up "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" shit right here.
"You need to change opinions in a democracy in order to succeed in changing policy in a democracy."
Care to elaborate how that's got anything to do with the road to hell being paved with good intentions?
"It's okay to do deplorable things today if it means we might get more votes for it tomorrow. Then we'll focus on all the good things we talk about doing someday"
Except tomorrow never comes.
Law states that legality of crossing has no effect on validity of asylum cases. I guess we're ok with doing whatever we want to cater to a republican base that won't vote for a dem.
Why though? It's been proven and shown with many many video recordings that the so-called "border crisis" is completely made up. Yes, there are a lot of people at the border seeking asylum, but it's not a horde of people a la World War Z forming a human tidal wave crashing over the Rio Grande.
Because it removes a republican talking point. They're literally playing politics.
The GOP has cried wolf so loudly and for so long that now no one believes them.
The US-Mexico border is 1,951 miles long. You can't capture the issue with a video or photograph.
And no, it is not made up. See for yourself. Border encounters spiked hard, but dropped just as hard for January. No idea what's going on there.
In any case, look at the yearly numbers for a better picture. For 2024 we'll easily top 1-million extra migrants over 2021's numbers. Yeah, we got a problem.
How are we to employ and house 3+ million souls? And that's just for 2024. This will require a new major city worth of infrastructure, every year. Don't we bitch about rent pricing around here? Hold onto your butts.
And go tell Denver it's all made up. Dare ya.
https://www.denverpost.com/2024/02/21/denver-budget-cuts-migrant-crisis-recreation-center-hours/
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/02/21/overwhelmed-by-new-arrivals-denver-residents-organize-to-welcome-migrant-populations-decently_6546726_4.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/12/us/denver-colorado-migrants.html
Since many migrants often work construction etc. Perhaps they could be employed to build it. Just a rational stab in the dark here.
And yes we bitch about rent etc. The key thing to understand, is that rent doesn't really have a reason to cost as much as it does. The actual cost of upkeep etc for the buildings and property etc is a fraction of the rent. We've as a society demonized public housing, and largely refused to let any new be built. Or take care of the few that have properly. Because "reasons".
I've always been staunchly against illegal immigration for that reason.We're already in a cost of living crisis. The country is full. I wish the Democrats would realize that by continuing to allow illegal immigration, it lowers the cost of labor, and in turn and crushes the working class' collective bargaining power. I'm not gonna go vote for an insurrectionist traitor that will cut Bezos' tax bill to fix it though, but straight up, idk why people even want to come here anymore. 20 years ago, I get it, but now everything is expensive and you're not going to make it Washing dishes and picking fruit.
The country is far from full. We have cities in a few states that dwarf the population of entire other states.
The cost of living crisis is manufactured. And we as a society could choose to end it tomorrow.
Agreed, but adding to demand without relieving supply does us no favors. If we banned Air BNB and corporate landlords of single family homes, this problem would be gone tomorrow, but that's not going to happen.
We could even leave those things untouched. And simply build desirable, affordable public housing like Austria. In areas where it's feasible have Finland style district heating.
That would cause the collapse of said corporate land barons and ridiculous Air BNB BS. We won't do it however. Because there's no short term profits in it for said land barons. And it would reduce how much they're able to overcharge impacting their profits long and short term.
a vacancy tax would fix seattle overnight, I stayed at a hotel there recently and most the nearby buildings were over 50% just empty rooms. Theres no reason to justify these kinds of rents except price fixing.
100%. A friend of mine lives in a "luxury apartment" and at night, most of the lights are off, I never see other people in the hallway, and I can almost guarantee it is 30-50 % occupied. They don't care though, they would rather have it be 30% occupied at the higher price than 100% occupied at what the true market rate is.
Reducing demand does no favors either because the cost of living is artificial. Demand is irrelevant.
I mean, it's definitely still relevant. If everyone just said fuck it n moved into Hooverviles tomorrow, cost of housing would go down with no one to occupy/ pay for the housing. They are restricting supply. The only way to combat it beyond asking for legislators to actually do their fucking job is to decrease demand.
They're restricting supply by buying up empty housing and hoarding it (and manipulating zoning laws and buying off city councils and getting the "right" ordinances passed etc). There isn't actually a shortage of housing, just a shortage of "available" housing. You can't fix that by shutting down the border. They'll just hoard even more to compensate.
Perhaps the problem is the word crisis. If you reframe the conversation to say "there are increasing numbers of people attempting to cross the southern border", the stats are pretty plain: https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/nationwide-encounters
I don't know if this counts as a CRISIS!!! but it's extremely easy to establish more and more people are crossing the border.
Im sure the democrats will stand up against this like they did when Trump did it. Lol what a joke.
In my humble POV I believe closing the border with the #1 business partner of the US isn't a good idea.
It's a power move. He closes it. The GOP cries because money. Their base's heads explode.
And more refugees die.
I don't know why you think that would matter to Biden. He already kept in place Trump era policies on Asylum seeking outside official entry points and even wants people to stay in the country they seek to escape until they have our permission to start their journey.
Looking back at it I think his stance on immigration was our warning that he was going to be the farthest right democratic president yet.
Woah there this is quite a radical stance. I think you should put a trigger warning on it so people can be ready for it.
That'll bring San Diego to a halt. Nobody can afford to live in San Diego.
Hey traffic will be awesome! Don't know what we're going to do with all the trucks that stop though.
"Biden considers vague unspecified action on a subject that over 70% of the American electorate considers a problem, clearly Both Sides are Just As Bad"
What? That's not a quote from the article. What are the sides you're even talking about? The borders sides?
I consider it a problem and I consider abolishing the border a solution.
We are not the same.
Member when dubya did that?
I member.
Lasted 48 hours
It's just a virtue signal that Dems appropriated from Repubs as the Overton Window has shifted to the right. In actually neither of them will do anything to affect real change because too many companies make a shitload of money exploiting the fuck out of immigrants. Then these assholes get to scapegoat these same immigrants as some kind of root cause for how the middle class is
doing worsegetting fucked over while Wall Street keeps breaking records. If the minimum wage had kept up with inflation, it would be over $20.Biden’s team somehow thinks that enacting republican policies are going to win him more democrat voters?
Either that or Biden has been a republican this whole time and is enacting policy he openly supports.
Leaning towards the second option, but man. Biden is going to lose the fuck out of this election.
I don’t think there’s much he could do at this point to win my vote. He’s already doubled down on every issue I care about.
And I’m definitely not alone. Fuck neoliberals.
And fyi. I don’t fucking care if the other guy is worse. Please stop saying that shit over and over again.
The Democrats are capitalists. They're just slightly nicer Republicans.
Biden thinks you will vote for him no matter what, and so is going to focus on winning over so-called "moderate Republicans"
Watch him get even worse as the election gets closer.
It’s upsetting to see him literally fighting for trump to win the election.
Your emotions are valid, but your logic is not.
Actually, Im fairly certain it’s the other way around. The neoliberals have been making these same arguments for over 40 years. “Vote for this guy because the other guy is worse”.
You are the one who keeps doing the exact same thing expecting different results.
I know that probably hurts your feelings. But your feelings are also valid.
Biden is going to lose this election so hard it isn’t even funny.
I've keep being put into a position where I have to further my consideration in voting for Biden.
He's the strongest the Democrats can muster, we can't have any one else (but please don't criticize him, he's incredibly weak, a strong breeze will knock him over). Hes the best option we've got to stop a Palestinian genocice (oh except earlier today he vetoed a vote via the UN that could have stopped the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people). But we have to vote Biden because Trump would probably be worse (even though, you know, Biden is the one right now supporting the genocide. not hypothetical).
If you think this delusional policy is defensible, right here right now, you are part of the problem.
NO right wing voter is going to support Biden. PERIOD. NONE. You will ONLY get votes for Biden stepping to the left. Literally every Democratic victory in 60 fucking years have happened that way. But yeah, keep pursuing these genocidal right of Rumsfield positions, Democrats. I"m sure you'll find that center once you have cripwalked past Cheny's undead beating heart of evil.
THe entire last decade of political progress made by progressives has been lost because of this idiot.
This is fucking delusional. Democrats are not all further to the left than Biden - you'll never get conservative votes, but you can sure as shit lose moderate Democrats. And the only leftists not voting Dem at this point, with 'Day-One Dictator' running, are people who run fucking purity tests and won't be satisfied until Biden is waving a red flag. Which, while amusing, is not a realistic way to win an election in the current US.
Listen, I will be voting for Biden, who is clearly worlds better than Trump. But the idea that Palestinian Americans who won't vote for someone funding the ethnic cleansing of their own family members are "purity test" losers is...well, its a take.
Yeah, no, if the opinion is that "This decades-long US policy of supporting a foreign country isn't ending now, therefore, everyone in the US and in Palestine can get fucked, including me and all of my family members", that's not an opinion worth taking seriously.
You can say it's an understandable emotional reaction, but it sure as shit isn't a reasonable one.
What's unreasonable is acting like not supporting the active genocide of your own people is unreasonable.
Especially since you're conflating genocide with apartheid.
I have friends that have lost the ENTIRETY of their extended families, you sick fuck.
Mother, father, sisters, brothers, cousins, aunts and uncles all murdered in a single fucking night.
I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't be capable of looking them in the eye and saying the same thing. Or, at least, not if you had any human decency.
Edit: changed lost to murdered because they didn't just mysteriously die.
What, looking them in the eye and saying "Voting for millions of minorities in America to be oppressed and killed isn't going to save anyone, but it sure as shit will kill and oppress millions of minorities"?
Sorry that I feel that "MORE people need to suffer" is not a reasonable reaction to suffering?
Fuck you genocide apologist. You've made it clear you're willing to sacrifice anyone for your own safety.
Which, come to think of it, is an extremely right wing fascist viewpoint.
What is your problem with Trump again? You don't have a problem with genocide.
As opposed to be willing to sacrifice everyone else out of... what, spite?
Fascists don't go to war because they're scared, though they often are scared as well. Fascists go to war because human suffering is their highest goal.
You wanna explain to me what oppressing millions of minorities achieves, other than human suffering?
You want to explain to me what your are not willing to sacrifice in the 'name' of democracy?
You're okay with genocide.
You're okay with separating kids from their families and throwing them in cages.
Seriously, what is it about Trump that you're not willing to support?
"Why do you not want the worse candidate?"
Huh. I'm not really sure. I guess it must be because they're fucking worse on every issue.
I'm not okay with genocide or 'secure border' insanity. But I also recognize that cutting the brakes and saying 'all aboard the fascism express' is not a fucking improvement.
Please, tell me about your totally-not-fascist alternative to democracy. I'd love to hear it.
Jesus you're dumb (pun intended fully, though adding or leaving the comma was a tough decision.) And I say that, not because we disagree, but because of your complete misreading of that last bit you quote.
Democracy is a political system. Same as fascism (not that they are equal, but they are both political systems.) The reason the former is supposedly better, when paired with minority rights, is that it doesn't lead to things like genocide.
You're willing to throw away minority rights, and embrace genocide as an acceptable option for the facade of democracy that you love.
What you are supporting is not democracy. And you don't love democracy, because you're willing to throw the bits that separate democracy from mob rule out, to save the trappings of democracy. And you're willing to tolerate genocide, the bad thing that supposedly fascism leads to and democracy doesn't, to support, again, the trappings of democracy.
Secondly, I think that you are arguing in bad faith. I think you don't actually believe Trump will end in fascism (though, I actually somewhat do).
Tell me, have you started purchasing weapons? Stockpiling food, water, medical supplies, and ammo? If not, why not? Resistance is the proper response to fascism, no? Lest something like, oh I don't know, a genocide happens?
And this is all during a time where we're not actually locked into Biden as a candidate. You're all in for supporting Biden though he is actively participating in a genocide, and justifying it with 'Trump's worse!' when we are in the time period where we could choose someone else!
It's almost like you are arguing in bad faith and trying to prevent anyone else but Biden.
I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of democracy.
I absolutely think a second Trump administration is more likely than not to end American democracy and usher in an age of fascism, possibly worldwide.
My guy, if fascism comes to America, I'm a mentally ill near-sighted cripple living significantly below the poverty line with an irregular income with few practical skills. If fascism comes to America, my options are pretty limited to "hide messages in my cane for la resistance" and "off myself".
And separately, prepper delusions aren't going to be much help.
I don't know how to address this level of delusion without going over a hundred years of American political history, which I suspect would be lost on you.
This frames voting for Biden as a white man's burden to save Palestinians from their own emotions. Surely you see a problem here?
Holy fuck, this is the stupidest and worst fucking take outside of pure genocide cheerleading I've ever fucking seen for justifying a fucking genocide.
This genocide could be stopped tomorrow if the US stopped providing weapons and money for the genocide.
This isn't some stupid fucking "White mans burden" (I have trouble writing that out because of how despicably idiotic it is) bullshit. If we stopped giving one side the bombs, they would stop falling on the fucking Palestinians. We are directly responsible for the murder of their family members, and you're arguing that they need to vote for the single individual that could stop the murder with one phone call.
You want Palestinians in the US to continue paying for and supplying the bombs, shells, and bullets being used to kill their family members. And you're justifying it with language that is supposed to be used for arguing for justice. Yay for intersectionality!
You know those memes of a bomber decked out in rainbow flags as it drops bombs on some 'enemy' of America? That's you. You're using the language of progressivism to justify murder. Good job.
... I think I misread your comment. Okay let me make myself perfectly clear about what I meant:
There's this idea that we have to vote for Biden to stop fascism (lol) and so everyone needs to follow the party line this election. There's a corollary that has popped up which says it's understandable for Palestinian-Americans and Arab-Americans more broadly to not vote for Biden, because they're too emotional to make the smart decision and that's understandable. This, in turn, creates a white man's burden - we must vote for Biden to make up for the votes he's losing from the overly emotional victims of this conflict.
And I somehow read you as saying this, and I think I confused you with that cracker PugJesus. I'm really sorry, it's absolutely clear that's not what you meant and I can't imagine how I misread you so badly!
I'm sorry if not supporting genocide is a purity test. Ohh, fuck workers rights too. And let's add on the endless wars/drone strikes that Democrats like also.
Enjoy having no standards and morals.
I am starting to think this is Chuck Schumers secret account with this dumb ass, proven wrong "for every liberal vote we lose, we'll gain two suburban moms" math.
It's amazing to me that you're more angry with the people who can't vote for an ongoing genocide, then you are for the fucked up undemocratic private process of the Democratic party that is forcing someone unpopular enough to lose without the left because of the genocide.
Also, you know when lgbt people say that they won't accept rights by abandoning their trans brothers and sisters? You're the blue MAGA fuck they're talking about.
Preserving a democracy that sacrifices people or commits genocide is not really preserving a democracy, it's preserving mob rule without protection for minorities.
You're in love with a process that doesn't exist anymore.
Biden has lost Michigan at this point. Biden is putting Democratic strongholds at risk with these policy decisions.
We need a new candidate and we need them now. Biden will not win like this, and no amount of water carrying on your part can change that.
No you don't. Because you have 2 options: Biden or Trump. If you are considering Trump as a legitimate pick, then just say you're a fascist and save everyone time.
Despite what the internet says, most of America is not that progressive. Else we'd have more progressive candidates down ballot. People love to bitch and whine about how there's no good options. Well that's because America is pretty conservative on a lot of issues. It's not like there's this giant leap from left-leaning to far-right fascists. It's a huge spectrum. People not wanting to recognize this is why we get posts like this.
If America was truly as progressive as some people thought, a third party could sweep the Democrats with a popular progressive candidate. Unfortunately that's just not the case. But it is changing. Albeit slowly.
So get out there and campaign or run for office. Because this kind of grandstanding only creates voter apathy.
In a word, no. The GOP and the DNC actively collude to ensure that no one else can compete.
So our choices are 1) fascists who support a fascist or 2) ethnic cleansing apologists who are 100% okay with voting for the man supplying weapons and aid to those committing the cleansing.
Hitler was voted in.
Part of the problem with the political system of fascism is that it leads to scapegoating and then genocide.
We've got genocide right now, though.
Not quite. He was named chancellor. https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/adolf-hitler-1
But your point stands: Hitler gained power in a legitimate fashion. Chancellorship (it's why that's the fascist win condition in Secret Hitler, not Hitler being elected President). And then he took the rest of the power and made himself a dictator. Which is why we should be absolutely terrified of risking a Trump election. Giving him the pretense of legitimacy will only make it that much easier for him to take absolute power. And Trump has said he would. He said he'd be "dictator for a day". Which is the biggest red flag possible.
Yeah fucking right. Money is the number one determining factor in candidate success, and after that it is the organizational power of the DNC. How deluded do you have to be to think that ANY third party is going to be able to muster populist support given the current economic & political paradigm. I'm sorry, but that is just so fucking naive I can't believe you even tried to float that.
Jesus, get some reading comprehension skills. The person you're responding to agrees with you.
No, no they do not.
They're arguing against voting for a third party, just as you are.
I don't agree with either of you, but this isn't about what I agree with or disagree with:
You're arguing that anyone voting for a third party is a waste, and that anyone arguing for that is naive.
The person you responded to is saying the same thing, but with more words, and the final paragraph arguing that if people are unhappy they should run or organize for political offices, rather than argue for or vote for a third party.
I guess you could potentially read that interpretation into what they said, but that is not how I personally took it. To me it seemed like they were arguing that if there was any real appetite for a progressive populist candidate that it would be possible to get them elected through grassroots support alone, and I just don't agree with that at all for the reasons that I already stated. The nature of the two party system is that it necessarily creates the artificial appearance of majority support for candidates that would otherwise not even represent a plurality within their own party a lot of the time.
You lefties make me want to vote for trump. I've been a Democrat my entire life but I hate being associated with you idiots. Biden is a strong president and has done far more good than any president in the past 50 years but you're too far up hasan pikers ass to see it.
If I see one more "lefty" talking shit about Biden, I'm voting for trump and getting the other fence centers to do so. And I hope he leaves NATO and abandons Palestine to be left a crater so you idiots can finally have a reason to cry (wouldn't matter since you're always crying).
Imagine thinking that your candidate is above criticism for enabling a genocide 🤡
Go ahead and do what you're going to do. If someone correctly criticizing Biden for being too right-wing makes you want to vote for Trump, you never had any principles anyway.
Criticism is fair play and he should be criticized for funding any war as a whole BUT Israel is our ally. That's just how it goes. Although 28,000 deaths and counting is pretty messed up - I just don't see how it's our/Biden's fault.
In the interests of furthering discussion, what are some of these good deeds he did that you see as remarkable?
Lowest unemployment rate in the last 50 years
Got us out of Afghanistan
Debt relief for student loans
Cracked down on COVID and made real efforts to eradicate it
Need more?
https://www.factcheck.org/2023/08/biden-cherry-picks-unemployment-record/
But trump had the worst unemployment rate because of his mishandling of COVID. Two of my examples. Funny how you tried to focus in a single point (and failed) and ignored the others.
You're not good at this 😂😂😂
Great, now we're having spite Olympics. What's the point of citizenship if the citizenry isn't going to take the matter seriously?
Lol no I will never vote for that moron. I was just behaving like you morons do - I must admit, it felt gross. I don't know how you do it 24/7
Absolutely disgusting. I don't know how I can vote for this despicable person again. Appalling. Democrats are supposedly the good party?
Give me one reason to vote for this fascist that isn't "he's not Trump."
P.S. Willem van Spronsen was a hero, and I wish we all could follow his example.
Fuck your imaginary border.
Will you vote for the truly fascist trump, or just throw your vote away?
They'll be in line for the death camps with the rest of us loudly proclaiming "At least I didn't vote for JOE BIDEN"
Like the people currently in the death camp that is Palestine?
I didn't realize I lived in Israel and was voting for Israeli politicians?
That's right, you're just hoping to fund it all.
You vote for Zionist politicians in every American election dawg
Israel is the 51st State
Don't know about you, but I rather fight than just give up and get sent to a camp by the likes of the wanna be dictator Cheeto Mussolini.
I don't own a gun to off myself, and I'm too crippled to go hand-to-hand with any real chance of success. If I don't have enough warning before the goon squad comes to overdose on something, I'm pretty fucked.
I'm sorry to hear that but when the shit hits the fans communities will come together to try to protect each other. I hope nothing really happens, but if Jan 6 showed me anything it was that they are willing to over throw the government with violence.
Yeah. Putting my effort into Biden winning and democracy surviving for now.
It really fuckin sucks that we have the 2 oldest fucks in president history as actual candidates. They should be retired and not be near there presidential campaign or office.
Yeah. Funny enough though, my preferred candidate would still have the two oldest fucks in presidential history, it just would've been a different oldest fuck on one side.
At this rate Biden is going to open bipartisan death camps and you'll say "good thing we stopped TRUMP!"
I already threw my vote away by voting for someone who continued Trump's fascist border policy. ThRoW yOuR vOtE aWaY wake the fuck up, Biden is just more Trump, and his supporters are just as unhinged and cultlike. All you do is parrot the same tired lies.
Lol
lmao.
Facts. Look at any thread where Biden is rightly criticized for these fascist politicies
Guys guys, I'm not voting for the guy that followed the law that Trump made. Instead I'm gonna vote for a dictator "for a day", or throw it away and help the person that wants to be a dictator.
People I swear.
He's using innocent immigrants and refugees as political pawns. If that doesn't alarm you, then I've got nothing to say to you.
Ok so do nothing, and lose the election which would still result in a mass deportation on immigrants, shut down the border indefinitely, and shit maybe even allow hunting them from Cheeto Man rabid dogs. Got it.
The article literally says that the will be exceptions and gives time to fix the stupidity that has been going on with asylum rules.
But you are right let's help the Cheeto Man.
So you don't support open borders?
Welcome to fucking politics. If I was an immigrant I'd rather be used as a pawn temporarily than be the next target of the fascist dictator.
What about the current fascist dictator?
"Biden is a fascist dictator"
Literally the same shit MAGA cultists say, lmao.
Same botlike regurgitated lines. So tired and timeworn...
Don't bother. This guy is clearly a lost cause.
Dipshits like them will be the reason Trump wins if he does. Im sure they'll be comforted screaming about how they didn't vote for Biden as we lose anything that even halfway resembles democracy.
So we can't criticize Biden because the office of POTUS doesn't have the power to do anything in our form of government, but if Trump wins suddenly the office of POTUS is a dictatorship? That makes a ton of sense.
Of course you can criticize him all you want, but don't bust that BS that "it's only a dictatorship" if Republican. Not one democratic has said to be a dictator for a day unlike the supreme bone spurs leader.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-dictator-poll-americans-1234962755/
Yeah he says a lot of bullshit. If he actually had the power to declare himself dictator then so does Biden.
Democrats play by the rule of law. Republicans quite openly do not.
Yeah? And how's that working out for the both of them?
This is what a Trump supporter looks like.
Wrong again. Fuck that Nazi
How does one become so dense?
Case in point...
Right-wing liberals: We're not as cultlike as MAGA!
Also right-wing liberals: Oh, you're upset Biden is imprisoning, torturing, and deporting innocent people? Well too bad, you dense motherfucker! LALALALALALALALA
If "he's not Trump" isn't enough for you, you're part of the problem.