Remember: no Republicans are arguing Trump didn't break the law.
They're arguing he shouldn't be punished for it.
They’re arguing he shouldn’t be punished for it
They are really arguing that all Republicans shouldn't be punished but if you aren't in the club you get the full blast of the law.
law blast
It's what justice craves.
yes it's called Fascism
Yea I think he has to be found guilty of the crime to be pardoned, right?
No. Nixon was never charged, but he was pardoned.
I think you have to admit guilt? Which is bullshit because the purpose of a pardon isnt to get guilty people off but to act as a check against judicial power. I'm not sure though.
Nope.
A pardon stops all punishment from the judicial system. You don't have to plead guilty and criminal proceedings stop. A pardon further undoes any legal handicap (for example, you can own firearms again).
That said, if you accept a pardon you can't plead the fifth when it comes to details related to the crime you've committed.
There's also a commutation, which is weaker than a pardon. Instead of having the crime fully forgiven you are simply let out of jail with the understanding you committed the crime and must face follow up consequences (like not being able to own firearms).
Finally, there are also conditional pardons. Those are ones where the president could impose a "you must plead guilty" style rule before the pardon can be applied. He could also apply a rule that says "you must perform 10 jumping jacks".
Pardon powers are some of the most broad we have in the US.
About the only limitation is you can't pardon for future crimes.
About the only limitation is you can’t pardon for future crimes.
Yeah, you really want Roberts' SCOTUS to rule on that?
Roberts'
Damnit, that's what I typed but I guess it got autocorrected. Thanks!
Ford was, based on the behavior of the Reagan, W Bush, and Trump administrations, entirely wrong to pardon Nixon. There is no reason to repeat his mistake.
And there ya go groveling to your orange master, Romney. What a spineless bitch.
Well, not that we needed one, but I really appreciate you giving us a reminder for why we should never ever make you president, Mittens. It's very thoughtful of you.
Don't worry, at some point he'll say one normal thing and people will remark on how he's so reasonable compared to the others.
It is true, though. If he were to run for president, he'd be the best candidate the Republican party has put forward in 2 decades. And he's still a gigantic piece of shit.
The smallest coil of shit turned out onto the chests of voters in decades!
You certainly have a way with words, my friend.
Flame wars must be, while we defend our lives against a butthole who would devour all; but I do not love the quip for its sharpness, nor the meme for its oddly specific irony, nor the troll for his lulz; I love only that which they defend
There's a Netflix documentary called "Mitt" that follows him and his family throughout his 2012 run. I took two things away:
It helped humanize Mitt a lot, such as loving a beat up, old pair of winter gloves
I'm glad he was never President, and should never be President
He has a punch card that Moscow Mitch gave him. He gets to say 1 reasonable thing every 3 months and punch the card every time. Once the card is full he gets his Russian check for doing his duty to make the party look normal and reasonable without ever having to vote reasonably. If he actually votes reasonably he has to give the card back and can't get his check.
Romney again trying to ride both dicks at the same time.
I, for one, am sick of this whole "Oh lets pardon the past president to protect the institution of presidency"
Presidents should not be above the law. They are not gods, they are not kings, they are elected as representatives.
especially when the one in question turned the white house into a goddamn criminal enterprise
Seriously, I don’t know why so many people get this wrong!
We give guns to our cops to enforce the laws, and we should have higher expectations for the handling of their weapon than random schmuck off the street licensed gun owner.
We give the military and various other resources and powers to the President to execute the laws. They should also be held to an even higher standard! A bad guy as President can do a million times as much damage than they can as a cop.
Agree. These people are given the public trust. betraying the public trust should result in severe punishment. More severe than a random schmuck doing the same act, cause that random schmuck wasnt given the public trust and the power of authority.
But then the people who want to use that public trust for personal gain won't want to run for office! Then what!?!
I know you are joking, but you have no idea how many times i've heard legitimate arguments like that..especially with regards to police.
I, for one, am sick of this whole “Oh lets pardon the past president to protect the institution of presidency”
You know how we protect the institution of the presidency? We stop having presidents that break the law.
Agreed. I too am so sick of this ass-kissing authoritarian BS. They’re not kings. They served in an office and now they’re out. They’re humans FFS.
Maybe the ex-president shouldn't have been such a criminal, Mitt.
Mitt Romney is an idiot
You didn't even run, bitch.
Welcome to Lemmy, new account!
I guess we shouldn't allow any more new people to start commenting.
I have contributed more comments to the community in my 8 days here than this clown has in 7 months.
More than half of their comments are just failed call outs to new accounts. One comment a week, and this is what they bring to the table.
Have a cookie.
We absolutely should!
How is welcoming someone for being new a bad thing?
Oh wow, a week old account talking shit about Republicans. How sus.
And this guy is supposed to be the “moderate” GOP. Crooks and liars all the way down their bones.
Just when you thought he wasn't half bad.
Anybody who thought that was half stupid.
Shut up romney.
I can see discussion if he committed crimes related to being in office, that time was past, and we wanted the country to move forward, but none of that is true. Trump is finally facing justice for crimes throughout hiss adult life and he’s trying to skip justice to gain the presidency. This is not the Nixon situation. Even worse, Romney reasons it “to be a bigger man”, wtf, this isn’t just play acting as part of the presidential campaign
And pardoning Nixon just set the stage for Republicans continuing to commit crimes while or in order to get into office.
If you want to see how bad stuff gets for someone constantly trying to stay in power to avoid jail time, all you have to do is look at Netanyahu
Biden can't pardon state crimes.
Presidents should be prosecuted for crimes. They are not Kings and Queens.
Hell, kings and queens should be prosecuted for crimes
Louis XVI was prosecuted and found guilty of high treason and crimes against the state by the National Convention during the French revolution, so it does happen from time to time.
They are not Kings and Queens
I understand the sentiment, but I hate this phrase. If any of the e.g. Scandinavian royals would exhibit this kind of behaviour and lawlessness, the monarchy would be dismantled in a heartbeat. It's mostly for show, and the monarchy only exists for as long as the people want it to.
Well, Trump could just try not being a criminal if they care so much about prosecuting an ex-president
When you think the law doesn't apply to you then of course you'd think you can do anything you wanted and never be a criminal.
Just shows how much of a mistake pardoning Nixon was the first time. Now there's a precedent for giving Presidents immunity to save face.
And that's why you'll never be president.
Fuck off and die
All I did was post an article, you big meanie
Can't take the snivelling, manipulative, lying scumbag out of the republican, I guess.
To be fair, he’s probably being too honest with this one
how is this news? we already knew Romney was a turd
It may surprise you that a very large number of Republican politicians have spoken ill of Trump in the past, so it always makes it into the news when they flop on the issue and go back to subservience.
What? Anyway, that would never happen.
Yeah, who just pardons a criminal ex-presi- wait… never mind.
Ford pardoned Nixon. He didn't get elected to a full term after finishing the remainder of Nixons. We can argue about if the pardon was the final nail in the coffin (The economy shitting the bed didn't help, I'm sure.), but I think we can agree it was definitely one of the nails.
Nixon also resigned. There was no chance of him coming back but it didn’t do anything to convince conservatives in the 70s. The movie Dick is a great primer on how Nixon’s resignation radicalized Republicans.
I actually had an idea that Biden could pardon Trump, then Trump couldn't plead the 5th when called as a witness against anyone else. So he would have the choice of truthful answers or perjury.
Seeing how this current judge has been handling him with kid gloves I wouldn’t expect anything bad to happen to him even if he did perjure himself.
Notice how he is minding every p and a, crossing every t and dotting every i?
That’s so that, when he’s done, there will be nothing to appeal.
They will still try, but try and achieve are so different they don’t even share a letter.
Notice how he is minding every p and a
Pints and asses? 🤨
If I were Mitt I would immediately transfer everything I own to rockandsock.
It's really easy to say what you'd hypothetically do in someone else's place isn't it?
Doesn't there have to be a conviction in order for there to be a pardon? Or is that a myth?
Nixon got a full pardon and I don't think he was ever charged.
That's what I was going to say. Pretty sure it's true. I read something a while ago about people who had been pardoned, not realizing that it's an admission of guilt. I think a person can even turn down a pardon on that basis, but I'm not positive on that last part.
I guess Biden would have to say he WOULD pardon him, to head off any charges.
None of that is true. Nixon was never charged, let alone convicted of any crimes. And pardons can be completely general and not even specify an explicit crime at all. President Ford's pardon of Nixon, for example, was for "all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974" So, no. Neither charges or convictions are required, nor even a crime at all.
I see, but the guilt IS still a thing.
What about the person declining the pardon part?
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
He was talking some sense on his way out, then this. Repubs are incapable of being normal.
Right.. he was one of the almost okay ones kind of for a sec at the end.. and that's the best we get
With these scumbags, “almost” is meaningless. I never gave Romney the benefit of any doubt because he’s ultimately as awful as any of the feral maga hogs—he wants the same inhuman things they do, he just wants more decorum about it
This does not surprise me one iota
Ah yes. Fewer consequences for the rich is what we need.
I appreciate all the comments here, but consider another perspective. If there were a federal crime committed (I'm not following the news very closely) and a president can pardon before a trial is performed, then a pardon from Biden would be a total power move. Given that trump would probably either weasel out of the conviction or it would be a slap on the wrist fine, this puts Biden in a position of power over trump. This would also crush trump's ego if not publicly, it would eat at him in private.
Trump has 91 felony allegations across 4 different state and federal cases against him right now. Many of which are directly related to him trying to overthrow our democracy.
Burn him to the ground; I don't care about his legacy as a president. He was a shitty one anyway and was never actually elected by popular vote.
I would be appalled if he was pardoned, and I'm already rather annoyed at the current state of the prosecution taking this long.
Remember: no Republicans are arguing Trump didn't break the law.
They're arguing he shouldn't be punished for it.
They are really arguing that all Republicans shouldn't be punished but if you aren't in the club you get the full blast of the law.
It's what justice craves.
yes it's called Fascism
Yea I think he has to be found guilty of the crime to be pardoned, right?
No. Nixon was never charged, but he was pardoned.
I think you have to admit guilt? Which is bullshit because the purpose of a pardon isnt to get guilty people off but to act as a check against judicial power. I'm not sure though.
Nope.
A pardon stops all punishment from the judicial system. You don't have to plead guilty and criminal proceedings stop. A pardon further undoes any legal handicap (for example, you can own firearms again).
That said, if you accept a pardon you can't plead the fifth when it comes to details related to the crime you've committed.
There's also a commutation, which is weaker than a pardon. Instead of having the crime fully forgiven you are simply let out of jail with the understanding you committed the crime and must face follow up consequences (like not being able to own firearms).
Finally, there are also conditional pardons. Those are ones where the president could impose a "you must plead guilty" style rule before the pardon can be applied. He could also apply a rule that says "you must perform 10 jumping jacks".
Pardon powers are some of the most broad we have in the US.
About the only limitation is you can't pardon for future crimes.
Yeah, you really want Roberts' SCOTUS to rule on that?
Roberts'
Damnit, that's what I typed but I guess it got autocorrected. Thanks!
Thank you.
Maybe, maybe not
I think you're remembering some instance where a pardon can expose the recipient to civil liability. Or at least it was theorized it might...
Bannon, stone or one of them.
Bruh I don't know what I remember
Ford was, based on the behavior of the Reagan, W Bush, and Trump administrations, entirely wrong to pardon Nixon. There is no reason to repeat his mistake.
And there ya go groveling to your orange master, Romney. What a spineless bitch.
Well, not that we needed one, but I really appreciate you giving us a reminder for why we should never ever make you president, Mittens. It's very thoughtful of you.
Don't worry, at some point he'll say one normal thing and people will remark on how he's so reasonable compared to the others.
It is true, though. If he were to run for president, he'd be the best candidate the Republican party has put forward in 2 decades. And he's still a gigantic piece of shit.
The smallest coil of shit turned out onto the chests of voters in decades!
You certainly have a way with words, my friend.
Flame wars must be, while we defend our lives against a butthole who would devour all; but I do not love the quip for its sharpness, nor the meme for its oddly specific irony, nor the troll for his lulz; I love only that which they defend
There's a Netflix documentary called "Mitt" that follows him and his family throughout his 2012 run. I took two things away:
He has a punch card that Moscow Mitch gave him. He gets to say 1 reasonable thing every 3 months and punch the card every time. Once the card is full he gets his Russian check for doing his duty to make the party look normal and reasonable without ever having to vote reasonably. If he actually votes reasonably he has to give the card back and can't get his check.
Romney again trying to ride both dicks at the same time.
I, for one, am sick of this whole "Oh lets pardon the past president to protect the institution of presidency"
Presidents should not be above the law. They are not gods, they are not kings, they are elected as representatives.
especially when the one in question turned the white house into a goddamn criminal enterprise
Seriously, I don’t know why so many people get this wrong!
We give guns to our cops to enforce the laws, and we should have higher expectations for the handling of their weapon than random schmuck off the street licensed gun owner.
We give the military and various other resources and powers to the President to execute the laws. They should also be held to an even higher standard! A bad guy as President can do a million times as much damage than they can as a cop.
Agree. These people are given the public trust. betraying the public trust should result in severe punishment. More severe than a random schmuck doing the same act, cause that random schmuck wasnt given the public trust and the power of authority.
But then the people who want to use that public trust for personal gain won't want to run for office! Then what!?!
I know you are joking, but you have no idea how many times i've heard legitimate arguments like that..especially with regards to police.
You know how we protect the institution of the presidency? We stop having presidents that break the law.
Agreed. I too am so sick of this ass-kissing authoritarian BS. They’re not kings. They served in an office and now they’re out. They’re humans FFS.
Maybe the ex-president shouldn't have been such a criminal, Mitt.
Mitt Romney is an idiot
You didn't even run, bitch.
Welcome to Lemmy, new account!
I guess we shouldn't allow any more new people to start commenting.
I have contributed more comments to the community in my 8 days here than this clown has in 7 months.
More than half of their comments are just failed call outs to new accounts. One comment a week, and this is what they bring to the table.
Have a cookie.
We absolutely should!
How is welcoming someone for being new a bad thing?
Oh wow, a week old account talking shit about Republicans. How sus.
And this guy is supposed to be the “moderate” GOP. Crooks and liars all the way down their bones.
Just when you thought he wasn't half bad.
Anybody who thought that was half stupid.
Shut up romney.
I can see discussion if he committed crimes related to being in office, that time was past, and we wanted the country to move forward, but none of that is true. Trump is finally facing justice for crimes throughout hiss adult life and he’s trying to skip justice to gain the presidency. This is not the Nixon situation. Even worse, Romney reasons it “to be a bigger man”, wtf, this isn’t just play acting as part of the presidential campaign
And pardoning Nixon just set the stage for Republicans continuing to commit crimes while or in order to get into office.
If you want to see how bad stuff gets for someone constantly trying to stay in power to avoid jail time, all you have to do is look at Netanyahu
Biden can't pardon state crimes.
Presidents should be prosecuted for crimes. They are not Kings and Queens.
Hell, kings and queens should be prosecuted for crimes
Louis XVI was prosecuted and found guilty of high treason and crimes against the state by the National Convention during the French revolution, so it does happen from time to time.
I understand the sentiment, but I hate this phrase. If any of the e.g. Scandinavian royals would exhibit this kind of behaviour and lawlessness, the monarchy would be dismantled in a heartbeat. It's mostly for show, and the monarchy only exists for as long as the people want it to.
Well, Trump could just try not being a criminal if they care so much about prosecuting an ex-president
When you think the law doesn't apply to you then of course you'd think you can do anything you wanted and never be a criminal.
Just shows how much of a mistake pardoning Nixon was the first time. Now there's a precedent for giving Presidents immunity to save face.
And that's why you'll never be president.
Fuck off and die
All I did was post an article, you big meanie
Can't take the snivelling, manipulative, lying scumbag out of the republican, I guess.
To be fair, he’s probably being too honest with this one
how is this news? we already knew Romney was a turd
It may surprise you that a very large number of Republican politicians have spoken ill of Trump in the past, so it always makes it into the news when they flop on the issue and go back to subservience.
What? Anyway, that would never happen.
Yeah, who just pardons a criminal ex-presi- wait… never mind.
Ford pardoned Nixon. He didn't get elected to a full term after finishing the remainder of Nixons. We can argue about if the pardon was the final nail in the coffin (The economy shitting the bed didn't help, I'm sure.), but I think we can agree it was definitely one of the nails.
Nixon also resigned. There was no chance of him coming back but it didn’t do anything to convince conservatives in the 70s. The movie Dick is a great primer on how Nixon’s resignation radicalized Republicans.
I actually had an idea that Biden could pardon Trump, then Trump couldn't plead the 5th when called as a witness against anyone else. So he would have the choice of truthful answers or perjury.
Seeing how this current judge has been handling him with kid gloves I wouldn’t expect anything bad to happen to him even if he did perjure himself.
Notice how he is minding every p and a, crossing every t and dotting every i?
That’s so that, when he’s done, there will be nothing to appeal.
They will still try, but try and achieve are so different they don’t even share a letter.
Pints and asses? 🤨
If I were Mitt I would immediately transfer everything I own to rockandsock.
It's really easy to say what you'd hypothetically do in someone else's place isn't it?
Doesn't there have to be a conviction in order for there to be a pardon? Or is that a myth?
Nixon got a full pardon and I don't think he was ever charged.
That's what I was going to say. Pretty sure it's true. I read something a while ago about people who had been pardoned, not realizing that it's an admission of guilt. I think a person can even turn down a pardon on that basis, but I'm not positive on that last part.
I guess Biden would have to say he WOULD pardon him, to head off any charges.
None of that is true. Nixon was never charged, let alone convicted of any crimes. And pardons can be completely general and not even specify an explicit crime at all. President Ford's pardon of Nixon, for example, was for "all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974" So, no. Neither charges or convictions are required, nor even a crime at all.
I see, but the guilt IS still a thing.
What about the person declining the pardon part?
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
He was talking some sense on his way out, then this. Repubs are incapable of being normal.
Right.. he was one of the almost okay ones kind of for a sec at the end.. and that's the best we get
With these scumbags, “almost” is meaningless. I never gave Romney the benefit of any doubt because he’s ultimately as awful as any of the feral maga hogs—he wants the same inhuman things they do, he just wants more decorum about it
This does not surprise me one iota
Ah yes. Fewer consequences for the rich is what we need.
I appreciate all the comments here, but consider another perspective. If there were a federal crime committed (I'm not following the news very closely) and a president can pardon before a trial is performed, then a pardon from Biden would be a total power move. Given that trump would probably either weasel out of the conviction or it would be a slap on the wrist fine, this puts Biden in a position of power over trump. This would also crush trump's ego if not publicly, it would eat at him in private.
Trump has 91 felony allegations across 4 different state and federal cases against him right now. Many of which are directly related to him trying to overthrow our democracy.
Burn him to the ground; I don't care about his legacy as a president. He was a shitty one anyway and was never actually elected by popular vote.
I would be appalled if he was pardoned, and I'm already rather annoyed at the current state of the prosecution taking this long.