Those who are against iOS and Apple in general, have you tried their devices lately?
I am dissapointed in my peers. For years I have always been told to stay away from Apple devices and the company in general. However, no one who said that actually used their devices, or used them but not recently (some had like iPhone 4s in the past). Their knowledge was always based on some 3rd hand impressions or internet related peer pressure.
I am in the EU, and Apple devices aren’t as popular as in the US, mostly everyone uses an Android phone and a Windows machine. That also led me using Android and Windows in my daily activities, for the last 15 years. After many phones, starting with HTC Wildfire, i have continously been let down by my phone every 1 to 3 years after purchase.
First i was buying flagships, then mid-high, then back to non-pro flagship variants. I was also trying diffenent brands; HTC, LG, Sony, Samsung, Xiaomi, Nokia, OnePlus. When my last phone died, and i had to buy a new one, i had no idea what to get.
Everything seemed bad, i had them, they look the same, software looks the same, i was afraid of picking a “wrong” phone again. Every single one of them had some issue i couldn’t get over. Either notification problems, bad battery life, slow performance on camera, issues with sharing stuff, fingerprint annoyances, restarts…
Mind you, not everything was on a single device. One had great battery life but i wouldn’t get messages sometimes, other was great but battery life was poor, and on most of them the camera was laggy or buggy.
1 year ago, maybe a bit more, it dawned on me that the only brand i haven’t used anything from is Apple, so i got a basic iPhone 13 to “check it out”, planning on using it for a week or two just to see what the fuss is about. I was using my Android device as the main phone, and the iPhone as a second phone, I wasn’t ready for the jump.
After a week i found myself doing everything on the iPhone apart from voice calls, so then i finally took the SIM and retired my Android phone. 6 months later, my Windows laptop battery died and the repair would cost more than what the laptop is worth. So i decided to purchase a thin and portable laptop with intention to install Debian on it, as i was done with Win11 bugs and “features”.
After looking for 2-3 weeks, comparing different laptops, i was set on a HP 14inch laptop with a price tag of about €1300. Then i remembered that i am still thinking with my peers in mind. They were enraged on how i “betrayed” them by switching to iPhone.
I decided to look up Mac laptops and found out that they are actually very similary priced as the one i wanted to buy. I got out and purchased a M2 Air, basic configuration. I had no idea about the iPhone-Mac compatibility and integrations. Found out about AirDrop and other features. I was in love with this new combo that, cliche, “just works”.
My “friends” literally went 180 on me just for the dumb reason of using one brand instead of the other. None of them has actually tried to use Apple hardware. They were mocking me about being “locked in”, “fallen for their marketing”, and other stuff. “How do you like your iCloud subscription?”, things like that.
I have to tell you, i do not use any paid service from Apple. I succesfully conected my Apple devices to my home server where i keep my files, photos, calendar and all the other applications on it. I am not locked in, i feel like i have even more freedom because some services work better than on Android or Windows.
Syncing works flawlessly, something that was always janky on Android.
Sorry for the long post.
I guess what i am trying to ask is, why so much hate? Why can’t a person decide for themselves? Why is macOS/iOS looked down upon regarding connectivity with other devices and services when that’s clearly not the case?
Why do people that have no first hand experience so vocal and opposed to the brand? Shouldn’t you at least try and then be the judge?
I think you should talk to your friends about this, not us.
They know why they (appear to) judge you better than any of us can infer from reading your side of the story.
But to answer your question as written: Yes, I am very familiar with their hardware and products. The hardware is good. The products are coherent. The company is dishonest, monopolistic and anti-consumer. I value my consumer freedom higher.
They are all monopolistic and anti-consumer though. Which mainstream brand is truly on the side of the consumer?
None are. We can't have that world.
But whether due to incompetence, lack of monopoly or a trace of human soul, most mainstream brands don't harm consumer rights as effectively as Apple do.
Are you high? Microsoft got sued for over a decade of price fixing: https://www.thatsuitemoney.ca/
Google betrayed the trust of its search engine users by bumping up its own products: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/17/google-search-antitrust-lawsuit/
Yeah. The competition is so righteous.
Hate Apple all you want, you don’t even need a reason. But don’t sit there and tell me with a straight face other companies are somehow “better.”
You seem to have inserted a lot of opinions between what I wrote and what you choose to reply to.
If that's your idea of fun, go for it, but I refuse to role-play into it.
The commenter's point was well qualified. They are lesser evils. Listing bad things they have done doesn't really quantify it.
^ Exactly this. I was an Apple fanboy (perhaps even shill) until the iPhone 5S when my device had a bad NAND chip causing it to randomly and sporadically blue screen and reboot (as a PC user, the blue screen irony was not lost on me) and Apple jerked me around for 3 months until the phone was out of warranty and then told me I should have bought Apple Care on the phone even though the issue started before the 1 year warranty had expired.
I didn't find this acceptable as I had written proof I'd taken the phone in to the shop multiple times during the warranty period, ended up calling their corporate office of the president where they worked with me to generate logs from the device and send them to Apple techs who would review it, at which point they came back and said "yeah it looks like the NAND chip is bad" and "but it's out of warranty". When I told the person from Apple this was ridiculous because I'd been an Apple customer for decades and I'd had umpteen Macs and Macbook laptops and iPhones and I'd never had this problem with any other Apple device (the whole point being the devices are 30% more expensive because they're high quality and don't have these types of problems), she cut me off and said "Apple doesn't have a customer loyalty program, sir." and dead-ended the entire conversation right there.
I took the 5S out to my driveway and smashed it with a hammer and went and bought a $200 HTC One E8 and I've been an Android user ever since and will never give Apple a penny if I can avoid it. The products were fine, the software was good, but the service/company is rotten.
Whole point of the post is to get opinions from other people. There is no story, just my general observations about the software/hardware
Microsoft and Google are no different these days. In fact, they’ve always been this way.
Simply buy and use the tools that work best for yourself based on your experiences, as per OP.
It always surprises me how many people go for the self burn. Whining about a few paragraphs of texts is basically admitting their literacy level or attention span is pitiful.
That said, people who don't like Apple still have legitimate reasons. Stuff like being forced to use proprietary connector, their "walled garden". Basically if you're happy within the limits of how you think they should do stuff it's great, but not everyone is. None of that has really changed.
Use what you like though. People calling switching to Apple if that's what you prefer a "betrayal" are being ridiculous.
People from both sides bought into the relative propaganda.
Your general experience is consistent with what most say about Apple, regardless of big company values. We all know they are about nothing more than profits.
Isn’t it a company’s whole point of existence in this economy to gain profit?
Are you AI/bot?
Yes. Shit, I mean no.
My ADHD only allowed me to read the first two sentences.
I don't have ADHD but same.
I might, but self-respect was definitely the active limiting factor here, so same.
Can you elaborate what does self respect have to do with my post?
I see you've edited in paragraph breaks now, which is good.
What I mean is, I respect my own time too much to struggle to understand someone who couldn't be bothered to make the post readable. If they're not willing to put in the work to communicate effectively, I'm not picking up the slack.
You have now put in the work, and I appreciate that.
Same. No w that's there's paragraphs I'll read.
Yeah, i get that, sorry.
I wanted to write a quick post about this but then got carried away.
Stop caring about what other people think about Apple.
Start using paragraphs.
Learn how to express your thoughts in a short and clear manner.
When you're writing a text, you're putting down a stream of thoughts. Our thoughts can be very chaotic and hard to understand. So it's a good practice to review your texts. Are sentences connected to each other? Does this thought lead to the next one? Does this paragraph add value? Should you move or delete something? It takes practice to become a good editor.
You can also learn from how other people structure their texts. I pay attention to that when I read a post on Lemmy or article in some magazine. It's a pleasure to read a good text. I try to understand, what makes it good and what makes a bad text bad. That knowledge helps me write better texts.
This article has some good points: https://theamericanscholar.org/writing-english-as-a-second-language/ Despite the title, it can be helpful for native speakers too.
That article will be really helpful as it isn’t my first language so the thought/text conversion works a bit differently for me. Thank you!
It takes a lot of practice, but is worth the time investment. Some tips:
Focus on writing around paragraphs. Look over your text and see all the islands of text. Do they contain multiple different thoughts? Break up, move, or delete. Are they similar? Merge and reduce.
Try writing the same thing with less words. Try removing the less important stuff. You can also ask ChatGPT to summarize and split in paragraphs what you need. Practice makes perfect
I don’t really care what others think about companies, but when people i hang out with start judging me based on their views about some company, that gets weird
I'm not reading that whole post, but in answer to the title. I use an android for my personal phone and an iPhone for my work phone. I've used both side by side for more than the last 10 years. Without a doubt the android phone is more functional and easier to use. I don't give a shit about cameras, messaging apps, or brand loyalty. The android is more affordable and allows me to send texts, surf the internet, and watch YouTube without adds through vanced. I would never consider getting an iPhone as my personal use phone.
Paragraphs.
Paragraphs?
Paragraphs!
Ok i will add them sorry :|
Seems like i can’t find the eddit button anywhere
Either in the three vertical dots submenu, or a pen icon
Couldn’t find it on Memmy, but Voyager has it so now i fixed it a bit.
If you like Apple and Mac, go ahead, use whatever you like. I think the hate comes from the hype attitude apple users typically have. They are a bit too hardcore about it and it gets annoying. I know, some bad apples spoil the lot (pun?) and I'm sure there's Apple lovers who don't go around preaching or trying to convert anyone. My sister loves her iPhone, yet I never heard her recommend me get one, or even brag about it.
Now you will have to understand different people value different things. For me, if you can't sideload apps, if it's too hard to jailbreak, if it's too expensive, if I can't run the niche software I need to run- I'm not going to bother. For these reasons I'm not an apple customer.
Finally, no, no haven't used any Apple products lately. I think the last time I did was a Mac at uni some 5 years ago, and I've always found the interface counterintuitive. The mouse design is very uncomfortable. I don't like their keyboards. Perhaps these things changed or maybe we have compatibility, but again, adding to the reasons in paragraph 2- I don't see why I should bother.
I guess what i wanted to ask by creating the post is exactly what you are saying.
Why would you want to jailbreak a phone or sideload apps? Maybe you don’t have to? I was blown away by the amount of apps and features baked into the iOS and macOS, i had no idea that was the case.
And you can’t even know if you don’t try. Look at the amount of people saying, for example, you can’t have adblock on safari (you can), or that there are no automations on ios (there are).
I’m not trying to preach or to convert anyone, i’m just saying that i’ve been living under a rock and didn’t know about any features the ios/macos offer.
Also, apple products work just fine, sometimes better, with non-apple hardware and software.
Bluetooth devices especially.
What would I do without NewPipe? Can you run it on your iPhone? I've never experienced poor performance with my hardware, why should I pay triple the price? I didn't need to jailbreak my current phone, but I did my previous one. I can't even remember why I did, but I was happy I could. Some people like tinkering with stuff this way, the same goes for computers. Why would anyone pay more to get less enjoyment out of what they buy?
I understand you don't need or care any of these features, and that's fine. Most people love listening to Spotify on their iPhone, I'm cool with that. I don't know what else needs to be understood here other than essential character differences. People are different.
Newpipe doesn’t have a version for iOS, the newpipe team decided it won’t support the os because it heavily relies on android api. Not to mention that you probably couldn’t easily install it even if it exists. Youtube without ads is available via safari though.
Nothing wrong with differences. I just wanted to point out that many of the things i thought i would be missing, i’m not, either because there is an alternative or because it’s in the os by default.
To answer your last question, an example, i paid more money to get less enjoyment from one of the computers i use in the “home lab”. I could’ve spun up yet another VM for some services, for free, but i decided to purchase a dedicated machine. It had to be small tho, so the only real option i had was the Intel NUC.
It costs triple of the DIY version, not to mention infinitely more than a “free” VM, but it was the right choice. CPU is soldered, you have to buy M.2 storage because no sata ports, and it takes SO-DIMM. I “could” buy a cheap AMD CPU and motherboard and reuse multiple sticks of RAM and SSDs laying around in the lab, but the power consumption and form factor were more important for the use case.
I use an iPad for work. It's getting better now that they have widgets and allow a little customization. I hate the app store and the keyboard (even with gbosrd installed it's still clunky), and almost everything about using it. That said, it starts quickly, has good battery life, and is durable. Good device, terrible os. Android feels like the opposite - less reliable (more restarts) but much more pleasant to use. I haven't used an apple computer in a hundred years but i dint remember it being bad. My kids use macs for design stuff at home and work and love them. As someone else mentioned, i think it's ios that is hated.
Also cool thing about the iPhone. Bottom right of the keyboard there’s a button labeled “return”. Push it twice to start a new paragraph.
Noted. Pushed twice on edit. Took some skill to find the return button tho.
Yes! That huge wall of text made my eyes hurt.
I use Apple devices for work and although their hardware and software are reasonably well refined, I would never choose to use them for my personal devices as long as they continue their anti consumer walled garden approach.
I haven't tried nor will I want to try Apple products for the following reasons:
Apple products seem to always have some critical design flaw under the surface, or even something I can only put down to deliberate malicious designed-to-fail, not-repairable shenanigans (soldered SSD, serializing even trivial parts like screen opening sensor, having high voltage backlight pin right next to low voltage signaling pin that connects directly to the soldered CPU etc).
The software is extremely locked down, I simply cannot function without Fdroid and installing packages straight from Github (how else am I going to extract the necessary encryption keys to use a gadget with an unofficial FLOSS application instead of the official spyware?). Android is not perfect, but at least I can hack it and mutilate it as I see fit and there are custom ROM-s. My next phone will probably run /e/ OS.
Plus Apple lacks the critical-to-me hardware like 3.5mm analog audio output. IR blaster is also nice to have when working with AV stuff that may not have the remote with them.
Last, but not least, they're simply too expensive for me. I'm not willing to pay more than 300...400€ for a phone, and I don't want to buy a mobile gadget used—demons only know what that thing has been through. And Apple desktop/laptop computers—yeah, well, just no. I like my standardized x64 architecture, where I can upgrade RAM and storage as I see fit for cheap and install whatever opsys I want, just fine thankyouverymuch.
You're not locked in but you bought a laptop of the same brand as your phone and are in awe that everything clicks?
Your friends need to chill the fuck out.
I've used Apple devices for work in the past (phone and laptop) although not for about 7 or 8 years and they were fine - bit of a learning curve as I have always been a Windows and Android person, but I got used to them, and those aspects of them that I found ideosyncratic (or just plain dumb!)
That said, it'd take a pretty big shift for me to want to go back to Apple by choice, but that's partly because of cost and the sheer number of apps I'd have to buy to replace those I have.
But, if you want to go with Apple, it's your call, and your friends should not be taking it so seriously.
I agree with the chilling, i think most people are on some death rampage to money and that makes them angry and irrational
I'll consider an iPhone when they get rid of the giant notch and allow sideloading and more browser engines.
You can side load on iOS but the cert is only valid for 7 days then you need to refresh the certificate. You can use AltStore to do that automatically. Or get an subscription on one of those piracy sites that provide 1 year certs or pay for an developer account.
I'm pro Mac OS. Anti iOS.
My main metric is can I run software on the device of my choosing. On iOS you cannot run your own software, there's no f droid. That's a deal breaker for me. So I don't recommend it..
On Mac OS you can run whatever you want. And that's fine.
It's ultimately up to you, I don't like seeing advertisements, I like to run my own software.
For now. I really think Apple has been letting the entire macos experience decay on purpose. Then, they'll release a self-hosting xcode for iPad and old yeller the mac for good, as I am sure they have been dreaming of for years.
My ex's dad worked for someone that would get a new phone for each member of his family yearly and then would give his old phones to his employees. I ended up receiving year-old iPhones until 2020.
My local library had an iMac lab. I spend countless hours doing my work and hanging out there, all using iMacs. Eventually, I also bought an Apple Intel laptop with the awful butterfly keyboard, only to sell it a couple of months afterwards.
So I have tried Apple hardware. Up until 2020 it was the only smartphone hardware I ever used. It was the computer hardware I used for the vast majority of my middle and highschool years (heck, even in college there's an iMac lab that I spent quite some time in).
I spent most of my life using Apple hardware with Apple software and when I switched to repairable hardware and libre software exclusively, my life improved.
Good for you. I switched to libre or at least alternative software which is (almost all) cross-platform compatible. I replaced almost everything apart from some niche software that only works on windows.
The day i can game on linux is the day windows goes to the VM just for that few pieces of software required for my business.
That said, mac comes with most of the every-day items preinstalled. Mail, spreadsheets and the likes. Windows on the other hand - not so much. Windows mail app can’t hold a candle to the mac app or even the ios app.
You need to pay for office for that. Same on android. I can do 99% of stuff without installing any app from the app store.
I had an iPhone 12 for two weeks before I returned it. I tried to like it because, while you're still in a corp walled garden and they cannot really be trusted, they so far are better than Google at least with regards to privacy.
However, there's a list of stuff that got me too annoyed. Some examples:
I also ran into various bugs. I do on every platform but the "it just works" narrative is especially strong for Apple and it's just not like their fans claim.
I find the keyboard much better than gboard. I don’t use autocorrect tho.
Stock apps are one of the things that kept me. I didn’t have to search the play store for an app, it was already there. I use imap for mail, and the mail app is the best app i ever used on any mobile device. Paid apps included.
There is adblock for safari
Background sync works a lot better for me than on Android. I never have to worry about syncing photos or files, while on Android it would stop and i wouldn’t notice for weeks that my photos disn’t sync.
Apps are more expensive, but better as well. There are apps that are the same as on Android but pricier on iOS, i agree there.
I don’t use a filesystem on any computer, or should i say built-in storage. Everything is connected to my home server and that part works as intended.
For that part, the Apple website has an actual user documentation for iOS and MacOS and it’s good. Not the best, but far better than anything available for Android.
You have to actually give it a try. It isn’t like android. It requiers some adaptation. That said, i understand if someone found their OS of choice and doesn’t consider anything else, i just never was in that postition with Android.
As someone who actively avoids Apple products I do not have any issue with their hardware or software and actually recommend apple to people like my mom who need things that just work and work well. The reasons though that I personally avoid Apple is I disagree with many of their anti consumer practices, their "walled garden" mentality, and their blatant refusal to make things more repairable. On that note you mention HP and I avoid them as well for the same reasons. HP, Dell, and other big name manufacturers of Windows laptops and PCs use the same tactics as apple. I personally built my own desktop and bought a second hand laptop that I replaced some parts in and put Linux on so it runs much better now but these are things I can't recommend to people like my mother.
As for phones it is the same story as above but sadly virtually all options when it comes to manufacturers are anti consumer so the main thing that keeps me on Android is the ability to install apps from other places.
I think people take the anti apple train a bit too hard sometimes because they are easier to s**t on than having to name 20 different windows manufacturers or Android ones.
Side note many software engineers I know swear by MacBooks because their underlying kernal is more similar to unix and also the whole "it just works" part is huge when your company is buying you the machine and can't really fuck up by buying any 1 of the maybe 6 choices they had through apple
If you’re in the market for a thin and light laptop none of them will have user replaceable parts
On the other hand, there's the Framework laptop.
Brands are nowadays another way to communicate social status. Apple is the peak of conspicuous consumption hence the negative associations for some. Furthermore, Apple devices, although great for what they do, they come with numerous caveats. You’re limited on how much you can do with them. Great if you’re a newbie, not so great if you know your way round a computer and like for things to work your way. Their customer support used to be top notch but now it’s just an other outlet to force you into another expense. Over the past few years they’ve behaved very much against the interest of the consumer. So that didn’t help their public image among those who care about stuff like this. That is not to say their products are good. On the contrary, they’re great. Polished and generally, reliable. Until they’re not. Whatever you’re friend’s opinion know that it’s mostly based on their sense of identity and values.
I don’t know about the support part, i was on call with support for the first few days about basic functionality regarding the phone and the laptop and they were very polite and helpful.
Also, there’s a easily accessible user manual for every device and every function on their website, something that can’t be said for a lot of other brands.
I'm anti-cloud for many reasons, privacy being one of them. I want access and control of my own files. I use Syncthing to sync my files between all my devices.
I would be unable to do this on iPhone as access to the file system is extremely locked down on iOS devices.
Not true, sorry. Using self hosted cloud and it works perfectly.
Yes true, sorry.
I'd be unable to use Syncthing to properly sync my devices on iOS as it is completely locked down. You can't run a daemon that's always running on iOS and multiple apps cannot have access to the same files. Each app has their own little sandboxed playground.
https://forum.syncthing.net/t/syncthing-for-ios/16045
I guess if that particular app doesn’t work then it doesn’t. But i have zero issues with syncing the Bitwarden vault, or Synology drive, Nextcloud, or Synology Photos. Maybe the issue is with Syncthing.
It's because it's not a cloud, it's direct for sync. When I leave my house, and do not have internet I'll have access to all my files because they've already been saved locally to my phone.
No cloud puts files onto your local filesystem until you download them to your phone manually. A syncing app will put them there.
I guess you should look into nextcloud and/or synology drive, because they do exactly that.
You can use it as a “cloud”, where the files you are using are downloaded locally and then updated if you made changes, or you can just sync everything.
For me, i have some folders i need always available, internet or no internet, and some that i don’t care about as much. And that’s how it’s configured, it syncs the stuff i need, it leaves the stuff i don’t.
First, you really shouldn't let your friends tell you what to buy or not buy. Advise yes, but nothing more.
Personally, there's a lot about the Apple ecosystem I just don't like. I have no doubt whatsoever that their products are probably great and work together well. But their pricing and the way they treat users when it comes to repairs are the main problems I have with them.
I think it's just better to use what works best for you.
I would agree but then again i tried to repair some other brands hardware and it was even more difficult. At least with apple you know what to expect. Try to repair an Acer laptop in the EU, good luck with the local “official” repair guys
Well, I was thinking more that apple generally just want you to buy new stuff. So stuff is made as unserviceable as possible. Yes, in recent years this seems to have been duplicated by other manufacturers. It's quite annoying.
I would agree a few years ago. However, when everyone stops supporting their hardware after 2 years, and you see apple supporting it for 4,5,6 years, it makes you question who’s really here for wanting you to “buy new stuff”.
I don't think 2 years is correct. I've got Android 13 on my 3.5 year old device, and I'm getting a "security update" right now.
I think the real point is, that Apple have probably burned too many bridges, they've made the anti-consumer behaviour the norm too. So even if they are technically the better option, many people are just not going to trust them anyway.
What I did look at is current models (iPhone 14 vs S23, iPhone 14 pro max vs S23 Ultra). For less money, the S23 beats out the iPhone in most areas. With the iPhone 14 pro max vs s23 ultra, the iPhone is still more expensive. I'd call it a draw, with both phones better at different things.
The other reason I personally would say Android wins out is the budget/mid-range market. The iPhone 14 being the lowest tier of the current batch (tell me if I'm wrong) being out of the price range of many people. Many people don't need all the bells and whistles of a high-end phone. £150-£250 gets you a perfectly usable android phone. Again, I don't know all apple models now, but for the current range is there something cheaper than the iPhone 14?
At the end of the day, people should get what suits them most. I'm not in the Apple ecosystem, the kind of things I do with my PC means I'm not really the target audience for the mac range and to get something comparable would likely cost me close to double. Otherwise thrre's not too much in it between the phones and I am just used to and prefer Android. I don't have the problems you originally described either.
Unfortunately security updates are really low on the update tree. I am glad that they exist, don’t get me wrong, but i would much rather want an actual update along with the security update, that brings in new features, fixes bugs etc.
As for a midrange phone, you can buy a non-pro iPhone from a last generation for a steep discount in comparison with the latest model. Not for £250 though. There’s also the SE phone that’s the cheapest if you don’t need all the bells and whistles.
I would disagree that (every) cheap phone is usable. Depends on what you do with it. If it’s for making calls and texting, then fine, but i don’t think anyone uses their phone just for that nowadays. Usable as in it powers on and accepts input, yes, but usable as in using it daily for a few years… Not so much.
Some of my colleagues have cheap androids from their employer as a work phone and they are absolute trash, waste of energy and resources.
Don’t get me wrong, people who can’t afford an expensive phone have options now that didn’t exist before the advent of Xiaomi and i’m very glad for that. But i think it’s wasteful (resource-wise) for a company to provide cheap androids that break after a year only to replace them with another cheap android for one more year. That helps noone, just generates more e-waste.
I dont really care. But isn't Apple getting worse and worse by deliberately making it impossible to repair or service their products?
I think all major brands are going in that direction. I work in electronics repair (not consumer electronics) and it used to be “a thing” to have schematics available for a device you are repairing. Not anymore, and for a long time.
I know. I saw consumer devices from the 60s I believe with instructions and schematics.
But there are companies that are better and ones that are especially bad. Apple is becoming the latter. And on top they are actively fighting the 'Right to repair' movement.
My Lenovo laptop from a few years ago had a service manual available with all the user serviceable parts and pictures describing how to open it up and replace things.
I used to carry around my laptop every single day. I've opened it every few years and collected all of the dust and lint out of the cooling fins, replaced batteries in each of my devices, upgraded them and kept them running for years and years.
You're right. Unfortunately things are getting worse. Maybe I'm getting a Framework laptop next. I don't want anything that is glued shut with everything soldered on. A computer is not a disposable product or single-use.
And I hope the EU forces smartphone manufacturers to make those batteries replaceable. So we can all see their argument they can't build things as thin and waterproof has been a lie. I'm just not sure my current Pixel phone bears up until 2027.
I had a pleasure of replacing a CPU on an Acer laptop. It refused to work. I have it on video, 3 or 5 minutes after boot (can’t remember, but it was consistent) it would shut down.
Later, i found out that even though you can replace the CPU in that laptop, Intel has made it so that if that unit wasn’t configured with that CPU when you bought it, it would simply shut down after X minutes.
Can’t recall the name for that “feature” unfortunately.
Actually, it seems Apple are going in the opposite direction.
They redesigned the internals of the iPhone 14 which iFixit really liked and they’ve got their own self service repair program so you can buy legitimate Apple parts, although admittedly you could imagine the EU had a huge influence on this.
It’s taken them a few years to get these up and running, but seems like they’re slowly getting to the right point. Maybe this year the pro/pro max will use the redesigned internals architecture to make those more repairable but I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
Yeah. But they're still deliberately designing replacement parts like the screen and fingerprint reader so they can't be swapped and the whole phone will stop working. And they're hiding replacement parts to suffocate independent repair shops. And presumably to tell you to buy a new phone for 1000$ instead of the 10$ replacement part.
And while their iPhone might get better. I've heard it's simultaneously getting much worse for their M2 Macbooks.
I'm not convinced by their politics. Maybe they're doing one small publicity stunt but reality is different.
A lot of people that have feelings and behave like your friends do so out of insecurity. Apple stuff works really well within their own ecosystem. They’re kinda dicks about how they run their app-store, and I do believe they overcharge for most everything they make; but it doesn’t change that their stuff works really well, consistently.
I have to use Windows, OSX and various forms of Linux on almost a daily basis. They all have pros and cons.
Most of the things I use my phone for don't work on iPhones. They work just fine if you want the limited apps that they have available. I've found that making custom automation is not even a thing with Apple. You can't side load apps, so you're limited to just what they offer inside their store.
iPhones are for people who aren't really into tech and just want something very basic that works.
I’m into tech. I program. I don’t give a fuck about tinkering on my phone. I use an iPhone
If you're not writing your own software for the phone, and you don't need access to the raw sensor data, there's likely an equal app for iPhone now. I was in the same boat for a while - needing things that only android offered. I switched to iPhone in '19 I think, and I've found replacement apps for everything except detailed wifi scanning. Also, the apps I used on android which offered direct GPS tracking would show how many satellites and nominal locations are just binary - you have signal or you don't. That's frustrating when you're at the edge of signal and trying to get a lock.
I can see how it would be a deal breaker if you need a specific app for work. I can't switch to mac as several of my (multi-thousand dollar) analysis programs are windows only, and if an update breaks something or there's an incompatibility, it costs me $2k/day to troubleshoot.
I don't write my own software. I will alter apps sometimes, though. Mainly I use things like Tasker to create my own apps. I have about 85 apps that I've made using Tasker. It's pretty much my entire reason for having a smart phone. Unless something has changed with Apple, you can't run something like Tasker and you can't side load your own altered apps.
Have you tried WiFiMan?
Not recently; it's bee a year or two since I needed (and I use the term loosely) to find out and map the wireless bands and strengths that are in my house. Wifiman doesn't appear to expose the specific channels each signal is bound, just a strength. By contrast, something like WiFiAnalyzer shows which APs are using which channels, what each signal strength is, and which channel zones are empty. I don't need it often, but for something like setting up an AP for Quest PCVR, knowing where the blank spots are is pretty convenient.
I am really into tech but the phone is the only part that i really don’t want to fiddle with.
I use apple products as main devices since I was 16 and bought my first Mac, I’m not a fan girl, these are all shitty companies so Android/Google, Apple or Windows for me it’s the same but I have to say that the way iOS works is super intuitive to me, it’s like my brain works the same way (obviously there’s some stupid stuff like the way Settings are arranged) and I have also Android devices form various brands but I wouldn’t change my iphone/mac even if I have to buy everything refurbished because the cost is prohibitive!
The keyboard is ok, I registered many abbreviations so writing is very simple; Safari works fine and you can install adblockers, or if you want you can download another browser, just without extensions;
If you are a geek and privacy focused I agree that a de-googled Android is the best but for the average joe an iphone works well
Slowly but surely i’m getting on the same boat. If i lost my phone tomorrow and couldn’t afford a new one, i would much rather get a second-hand iphone from a year or three ago than a cheap android
People has often a natural need to play teams. I would have serious discussion with your friends about it. Because there is a limit when friendly ribbing turns not friendly. And that doesn’t sound healthy friendship.
iPhone is great for some people and Android is great for some people. I am happy you found what works for you.
But I have to ask what are you using for syncthing? Last time I tried it it was really sub par compared to my android.
I’m using nextcloud and synology drive (both available from the internet) with SMB fall-back through wireguard in case i need access to other folders on the server.
I gave up with trying to have serious conversations about not-serious topics with people in my life, it isn’t worth the time. I would much rather enjoy a meal or a drink and talk about something that actually requires some critical thinking than to just have piss contest on whose phone is better or whose car is faster, if you know what i mean.
I don't need to. iPhones are pretty but every time I've been forced to use one I wanted to pull my hair out, I know they're vaunted for being easy to use but I find them incredibly unintuitive, and I need help to do basically anything. MacOS is mostly Fine™ (with that being said - no window snapping? really?!), but they have no laptops with a number pad on the keyboard, and even if they did, they don't have matte display options so I couldn't comfortably use the damn thing anyway. It's a laptop, I'm not going to use it exclusively in darkened rooms with the lights turned off.
Edit: Also, MacBooks are entirely unupgradable. So that's a hard no from me based on that alone. The "need more storage/RAM? Buy a new laptop!" approach is just entirely unacceptable as far as I'm concerned.
I tend to find that for every complaint there’s at least 10 more people out there using their Apple devices quite happily.
Use what you want or that works best for you at the end of the day.
I made the switch to iPhone after my nexus 5 had a system crash when I tried to toggle the WiFi off/on. Haven’t really looked back since.
I think there’s a good reason behind the sales numbers, to be honest.
They've become a lot better in the past fifteen years in terms of usability and respect for their users, but the price point is still out of whack. They sell style as much as function... sometimes to the detriment of function.
No. To me, Apple is like Nazis. They look good but are bad. The end.
I personally am not the biggest apple fan but I find it downright disturbing how your "friends" are so adamant about this. My own dislike stems from overinflated prices, working conditions in the electronics sector in general and apple in particular (I have a fairphone and a headache about tablet use...) and waaaaaaay back I had an iPad that wasn't compatible with a windows/linux machine.
Doesn't mean apple doesn't have their good points, you are most firmly entitled to decide yourself what you spend money on and anything else wouldn't be decent behaviour in my opinion. Let alone how I'd treat my friends. Stating an opinion is nice and healthy, what they do... Not so much.
Yeah it looks like i need new friends, but that gets kinda hard when you’re older
I feel ya. But with these people I'd forever wonder what they'd do if I did something less innocuous as buying a phone.
No need to wonder! Better to cut them off and sleep calmly if you ask me.
I had an iPhone 12 for a couple of years but got fed up with how restrictive iOS is. I've also had a few iPads over the years but never really used them as much as I'd have hoped. My only experience with a Mac was trying to use an iMac on campus back when I was at uni and it was the slowest and laggiest computer I think I've ever used.
Yes. I recently switched from an iPhone pro to a Pixel pro and I greatly prefer the Pixel. I'm still learning cool new things I can do with my Pixel after months of use. The text selection is absolutely awful on the iPhone, as is the keyboard. Those two things alone were reason enough for me to switch.
I would love to try a Pixel, unfortunately it’s not sold in my area and i wouldn’t have any support if something went bad with it. The best phone i had was a Nokia, and it was the phone with the worst hardware, but the stock Android experience was beautiful.
I’ve used Mac and iOS for most of my life. I find it funny that some people feel a need to tell me why they could never use apple when I never once thought about what they use or what they think.
I'd say both are good it just depends on what you like, Ive noticed android gets a lot of features first but they are always clunky to the way apple will implement them. Personally I still prefer Android because I change my launcher to kiss and make everything text based, I prefer windows over Mac just because I'm used to all the shortcuts already and the way software works. Having used Mac at work for a while I always had to second think taking screen shots and all that going between windows and Mac
I oppose the Apple brand because of the typical users. They are a quite toxic group in my experience. For me, this is so bad, I would not even touch the IOS devices if they were actually good.
Lots of comments, low votes, yeah, lemmings don't like Apple at all 😂
I have used Apple smartphones in my teenage days, up until 2020 where I ditched my old iPhone 6s for a Poco F2 Pro, I was pretty comfortable with it, and it is my main phone even until this day. (Currently using custom ROMs, I did not even wait until the warranty to expire to get rid of stock MIUI lol).
I have always liked the freedom of my gadgets, I was always keen to jailbreak/mod whatever I can, unfortunately iOS did make this harder even until today, but at the same time it improved a lot to make some users not miss too much jailbreak (I was one of them since I used less and less my phone).
This very fact of liking freedom made me enjoy the Android side more (my other big Android device is the Nvidia Shield TV and I sideload every shit that interests me).
I legit think most lemmings don't give the opportunity to at least test Apple devices, I know they are corporate, I know they are closed source, but I still think it is a bit of close mind to not even acknowledge them as what they are.... A more than capable adversary of Android smartphones, heck, my girlfriend has an iPhone 13 and it feels so premium (even her previous 11 and 7 did), the apps are so well made, the apps barely reload in the background with its joke amount of RAM, even with its very limited customization side you can tweak a lot the home screen and the lockscreen overall to some next level shit... I'd like to have different kinds of home screens per session based (routines) on Android, and no, changing launchers does not count as they have cringe animations since A11...
In a nutshell every time I try it is a hell of a well made phone, but even having that in mind I'd not get back to it... Not in the short term at least, Android has grown on me so much that first I'd get a premium Android device (maybe Pixel because I don't like One UI), but if iOS keeps improving who knows, maybe someday.
That’s exactly how i feel, apart from the premium androids, because even though i paid the premium price, it never felt as a good phone. Fast, maybe, well built, not really, and the apps are the same no matter what you paid so it kind of feels like you got ripped off.
I’m salty as hell because deep down i really want android phones to be great.
I see, if you are not comfortable with the software you could try a custom ROM I guess, they usually are better crafted than bloated stock ROMs.
And yeah that is what held me to buy a premium device back in the days, I'd barely use the goodies such as the camera and my device had SD 865 which is still a more than capable processor yet, with these nice specs and a good custom ROM it really feels like a Pixel software speaking.
I tried. Don’t get me wrong, but if a couple of people can make a better software than a huge company then why am i giving the company my money in the first place. Unfortunately, i don’t have much free time anymore, not as much i would like, and certainly a lot less than i used to have 5-10 years ago.
I would love if the guys who make custom roms could make a phone, but sadly, that probably won’t happen. And i hate that all the phones are locked in. I wish a phone could be like a pc, where you can install whatever OS you like.
Hardware manufacturers make that impossible. The company that makes snapdragon is responsible for all the drivers and compatibility. Samsung certainly won’t open up their chips and drivers as well. Apple is the same.
Until we get something like a linux phone, everyone will fight tooth and nail for their slice of pie.
Hell, look at linux drivers on the x64/86 (nvidia).
Look at microsoft ditching 99% of CPUs on win11 launch.
Look at apple with their “macOS is for macs only”.
Software manufacturers are to blame as well. Why no office on linux but they support macos? Why no adobe products on linux? Why not games on linux? (I know it’s better now but still, very few big players) Banking software? Windows only. Manufacturing software? Almost all windows only.
OS choice has to be on the person using the computer, not some company.
It’s time for standardized computing.
I understand that you can’t write all the software that has been written again, but you can at least make the new software compatible.
I just don't like how you get around in an iphone. Admittedly, I haven't used Macs in a very long time, so maybe they're pretty good nowadays (I still hear you can't upgrade them at all tho, sooo...maybe not?), but most of it comes down to me feeling lost navigating the thing.
The other thing is how expensive Apple Products are in comparison to the competition, and the walled garden thing they got going on. Androids are just easier to move around in, cheaper, and give me more control over my device. That's the other big thing that steers me away from iphones: I pay more for a "premium" product and get a lack of control over it.
On android: If I wanna not use the Play Store, I can ignore it and use something else, if I don't like the stock apps, i can look for replacements that do suit my tastes (tbf, I can do this on Apple too, but there isn't much by comparison), if I wanna install a custom ROM, I can install it, if I wanna root the thing and sideline apps while I'm at it, I can, if I want to brick my phone...I'm an idiot, but I have that option. I can do none of that, or do some of it in a limited way, on an iphone.
Pretty much, I don't like how unintuitive the UI is, how restricting the system feels to me, and the company's overall anti consumer stance
iPhone are great, but restrictive. The DMA will open up competition on iOS for those in the EU soon. We'll be able to install competing app stores, and download and install any software we like without having to go through Apple.
MacBooks are really well built. I'm not a big fan of macOS, but it does integrate well with my iPhone.
Ignore anyone who mocks you for using the right tool for the job. People who make technology their whole personality don't really have much depth.
Oh, Apple's ecosystem is absolutely brilliant, but the problem is that it only works with Apple hardware and software with no indication of future cross platform compatibility. So you basically get suckered into buying Apple products only, if you want to keep your passwords, documents, podcasts, etc.
Like migrating into Apple's platform is easy, but moving back out is almost impossible. The main problem lies with how irritating it can get to consume content provided by services outside their domain.
Personally I am happy with my Macbook, because I can still download and install apps without using the App Store, but I could never see myself migrating to iOS because that would mean losing my manga collection, my emulators, the ability to watch free movies on Stremio, etc.
Edit: Oh, yeah the iOS keyboard is an absolute travesty. It makes textboxes so frustrating to deal with. How can you have a virtual keyboard without a clipboard in this day and age?
Recent Apple is the whole problem! Jobs era apple was amazing, but Cook era Apple is just a style brand with mediocre products. I used to love everything apple made, but for a long time now I've disliked almost everything they've done.
I’ll never buy a Mac, but I love my iPhone. It’s quick and snappy. Last time I had an android (although it’s been about 5 years), the phone shit the bed after about a year of normal use.
I personally like iOS and have an iPhone. I don’t really see an issue to switch.
For desktop, I prefer Windows on the machines I use for streaming and gaming, and linux on my laptops/tablets.
Via Claude.ai, a simplified version of the OP's complaint: (I really wish people who say that they "can't write" would process their text through an A.I. "editor" to save us all from their bombastic prose.)
...
For years, my peers told me to avoid Apple devices. However, none of them actually used Apple devices recently. Their knowledge was based on outdated information or peer pressure.
I'm in the EU where Apple isn't as popular. I've used Android phones and Windows PCs for 15 years. I was constantly let down by my phones after 1-3 years, across brands like HTC, LG, Sony, Samsung, Xiaomi, Nokia, OnePlus. Each phone had issues like notification problems, bad battery life, slow camera, restarts.
A year ago, I decided to try an iPhone 13 to see what the fuss was about. After a week, I was doing everything on the iPhone. Six months later, when my Windows laptop died, I considered a thin Debian laptop.
Then I remembered my peers' anger when I switched to iPhone. So I looked at Mac laptops, which were similarly priced. I got a base M2 Air. I loved the iPhone-Mac integration and features like AirDrop.
My "friends" mocked me for using Apple, claiming I was "locked in" and "fell for marketing." But I don't use any paid Apple services. I connected my Apple devices to my home server successfully. I feel more freedom because some things work better than on Android or Windows.
Why so much hate without first-hand experience? Why can't I decide for myself? Why is Apple connectivity looked down on when that's not the case? Shouldn't you at least try before judging?
I prefer my own intelligence even if flawed. I think that’s the beauty of it. Nothing against AI, but i don’t like the idea of running thoughts through an AI for a post on the internet, feels weird.