god I was hoping it was like tourists show up and just get laid by natives but instead it's just weird cuckolding.
tourists show up and just get laid
That would be Ibiza... but it only works during summer.
Ibiza
ohh yes! They got the kinda nightclubs you usually only see in movies.
That article kind of presents an idyllic/outdated view of the Himba people. Modern life affects them as well and a lot of young people don't want to live like that.
Interesting, and indeed a dilemma. I basically mentioned it because just yesterday I saw a guy talking about "sex in the past", and he happened to mention this, apparently in an even more idealized/outdated way.
Basically he said that a bunch of them would go through a "bonding ritual" at the age of 14, and from then on live like a sort of communal marriage, where the woman would shoo out the husband because she had a date with some other guy of the group, and that they were the "happiest people in the world" and would act surprised at outsiders' focus on their sexual practices.
From the other article, it sounded more like forced marriage and women abuse... and here it sounds like most of them want to get out of there.
Interesting series of takes.
Whoa whoa whoa. Let's not limit our options prematurely.
you gotta suck a few eggs to make an omelette
What if it was just a vanilla sex cult?
I'd join.
Does the cult have a good plan for healthcare? If so, please send me your newsletter, manifesto, religious tract, pentabarf, whatever.
I'd settle for a cult with a good dentist tbh. According to US healthcare eyes and teeth are separate from the rest of your body.
We call teeth "Luxury Bones" up here in Canada.
As somebody who was once part of a cult, it's just the same circus but worse.
Already planning on it here in Canada once my friends and I have the money for what we want to do.
Farming (+greenhousing) and some cottage rentals on the side.
Peace out, modern society!
Cottage rentals for income?
Currently my plan is to get far enough into my career that I can spend half my time in city making money and half in the woods
Exactly, cottage rentals for income. To supplement farming and other ventures, anyway.
I'm lucky that my work is 99.9% remote, so as long as I can acquire a stable internet connect I can continue to work out there if needed. Existing entirely in the woods is incredibly appealing.
I like that idea. Continuing to make money, no matter if it's just a few hundred dollars a month, is the main hurdle for me to leave. You'd still need to finance construction but it's a good long term vision.
I am worried about fire seasons/smoke seasons. At best it shortens the tourist season and at worst I lose everything : /
Yeah, that lack of startup capital is why I'm not doing it already. A bunch of us are saving to pool money together to self-finance. You can also just start with a couple of nice trailers (which you wouldn't be able to charge as much for, of course) and gradually work towards full cottages. Some cottages in areas I frequent around here are just trailers and are still going for like $300 CAD a night in the middle of September.
At least insurance should protect you against total loss?
I don't come anywhere near close to meeting the requirements for intentional communities. Chronic illness is a real bastard. I don't need much and the quality of my life could so easily be improved by just a little help from others, but everyone - even intentional communities - is caught up in focusing on how much others can help them. What I can give is less tangible, and therefore dismissed.
I don't want to abandon society but I do recognise we'd all be far better off if we lived in ways which were less isolating. Every person/family for themselves harms us all.
A huge problem is that most neighborhoods and houses aren't facilitating community.
You don't need a commune or a cult as OP was joking.
I live in a house where one of the apartments is used communally by all the other residents of the house and it changes so much. It doesn't have a functioning bathroom so the landlords couldn't give it up for rent. But it has a kitchen, a balcony etc.
If you've ever heard of WOOFing that's a great place to start. It's a work trade program I did years ago, tons of farms around the world. You get room and board, just work the farm for a short term. I traveled across Canada doing that years ago and ended up staying on one for 2 years in the discovery islands off the coast of BC. One of the best times in my life. Now I live in downtown Toronto, wondering why I ever came back ahaha
I dont know, you cant really go shopping for cults. Cults go shopping for you.
In soviet Russia...
Why not a commune IN the city?
Not saying this is you, but I feel like a lotta people who wanna live in the country also want all the city amenities - internet, garbage pickup, municipal sewage, etc.
To me, the problem isn't cities, it's late stage capitalism - gentrifying neighbourhoods, driving rents beyond reach, displacing communities. Plus its zeal for car-focused infrastructure, conspicuous consumption. All that stuff.
Anyway communal life is very appealing - I long for my college days of living in a house full of peers. Even if i'm off-base with my capitalism ruins the city argument, I think we'd all do better at coping with modern life with a wider support network.
I hear they are growing more popular in the bay area? Gideon Lichfield, outgoing editor-in-chief at Wired, mentions he spends half his year living in a commune of sorts and would like to do it full time in this podcast.
I live in San Francisco. It's not particularly "new" as the interview implies. Housing costs have been outrageous here for decades, so the degree to which apartments/housing are now unaffordable is only a reflection of the already ludicrous cost of living. Group housing is a "Bay Area thing" because it is solution to outrageous rents many cannot afford to pay alone. In some neighborhoods where it's possible for people to go in on a share situation in one household, it works, but it's actually becoming more difficult to find not more common, due to gentrification in tons of once affordable areas and the rise of things like VRBO and AirB&B gobbling up space which once existed on the long term market.
Thanks, I had no idea it had been developing this long. While Toronto area prices have been ridiculous for a while, I feel like we're only now hitting an inflection point where we might start seeing arrangements as you describe. There's tons of unoccupied or under occupied properties due to airbnb as well.
Very often I would like to abandon my life in reality and become a part of an ideal world which I have imagined. It is surprisingly easy to become part of a rural cult (look up "intentional communities") so it's a backup plan I have in mind if necessary, but with people we're going to be dealing with a different version of the same set of issues. We as a species are nuts.
Lol yeah I love intentional communities, I so want to join one if I could!
I used to live in a housing co-op and loved it. That being said you are going to have to deal with people intimately in that kind of living situation, so quality of life is greatly influenced by how well you mesh with the others around and things can change.
No, but finding a job in a slightly less fucked country would be great once I have sufficient work experience.
You can do it, I believe in you!!
Thank you. <3
It's a beautiful dream! Almost a decade ago my family and I left the city and bought land with some other folks. Now it's just us out here in the wilderness, others are welcome but most people can't leave the city.
It can't be too "wild" out there, if you are able to pop into Beehaw...? 😂
I would love someplace totally off the grid.
Starlink is everywhere! There is no cell service here so we had much more limited communication prior.
That sounds fantastic, yeah my partner and son are super city dependent they can never leave.
We got out of the city before door dash, grocery delivery, etc. so we don't even know what we're missing when we trek over a hundred miles to the Costco. I'd imagine that makes it easier!
Wish I could do that!
I’ve thought for a while that it would be cool to buy up a block in a suburb and do urban farming as a community.
see if there are any community gardens in your area. they’re basically what you’re talking about, although usually only the land owner and/or farm manager lives there. my favorite one around here also has a rotating volunteer position who lives on site.
My dad did it back when he was a hippy.
He still talks very fondly of the time he spent out in the Arizona desert all those decades ago.
A piece of me would like to drop out of society and live in solitude.
While I lean towards being a loner, I realized that I am probably mostly a hybrid.
I enjoy some human interaction, but also love being alone to do whatever the fuck I want.
To me a commune would be too intimate and I think would end up being like a small town type of scenario which doesn’t appeal to me.
What about a traveling circus? Bonuses: it's mobile, it's a circus by design, it's inclusive, and goofing around is just part of the culture!
I've always said if you don't want to work for clowns join the circus
This idea is precious
That's a good idea. It would be interesting to create an ideal communist utopia on a small scale so we can see how/if it actually works. Do it!
The Spanish tried this in the 30's. It was a part of the Spanish civil war and is an interesting read. I'd also recommend On Anarchism by Noam Chomsky which goes more in depth. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Revolution_of_1936
Edit: Spelling
Abandon society - yes. Commune - JFC no. Vagabond gypsy caravan? Possibly, but only if there are werewolves and mysteriously sexy tarot card casters involved.
I do absolutely horribly in small groups of people for extended periods of time.
I would but in a commune they would probably just force me to mine or farm all day instead of doing a job I actually want
Already looking for a land that might be livable in 10/15 years
how far along is your rocket?
I'm curious where.
I’m thinking… North.
And not low lying near a coast.
Yeah, I (and I'm sure a lot of other people) had thought of that too, but now the whole North is on fire.
Yeah but that means it’s on a fire sale! points to temple
In 20 years you’ll be relaxing in mild weather while Santa tried to keep the reindeer from burning alive.
Yeah but that means it’s on a fire sale! points to temple
Haha, smart!
Probably hill zones: the land is easier to work than mountains, close to the plains (where there are natural water reserves) but still high enough to have lower temperatures
I'm thinking the foothills of the Canadian Rockies
"Might" or "should"? A lot of land "might" be livable, some different land "should" be livable if you build a fallout shelter and a bio-dome.
I just want more affordable housing
The fact the term "affordable housing" exists is the problem, all housing should be affordable, it's a necessity, not a damn profitmobile.
I talk about this a lot - mostly tongue in cheek (mostly) - and my partner always calls me the Unabomber afterwards, or asks when I’m publishing my manifesto.
I’m not a people person and society seems to be getting worse, plus I love rugged living and being outdoors. I can dig it.
Peace. More bandwidth for the rest of us.
When do we get some fresh kicks and an icy drink?
Not really, no. The idea of living in a small community makes me feel nauseous and panicky, and the more remote the commune the more intense the aversion.
But I wouldn't mind some sort of arrangement between some others who also like the idea of being off-grid but who loathe the idea of being in a small community, where we'd be off in the wilds with a LOT of space between us, but still come together occasionally to help each other out with various things, or be available be radio or whatever.
Similarly, the idea of being part of a nomadic group seems quite appealing to me, especially if more people join along the way and others dip in and out.
Don't drink the Kool-Aide
Avoid the apple sauce too.
I feel pretty happy in a city where I feel welcome and the neighborhood is fun. I got my family and friends around, and my bf only lives a short drive away :)
Nature isn't too far away either.
I'm honestly so close to going home and living on a kibutz
No I like not to have to worry about food every day and potentially die if I have some medical issue.
If I were younger I'd be looking at Mexico. Elevation and arable land can be found. Aboriginals would have survived if not for guns. And I think it will be a long time before the US ruins them like they do all over the world. I believe you can pretty much survive with 1acre per person in the commune. At least according to Fukuoka Masanobu.
From Biblical Babylon to modern scientology
The problem with cults, at least according to me / Is that it’s so hard to see the purpose, meaning or point in them / And they’re never any fun, but still, people keep joining them
If you can find one that isn't a weird sex cult, let me know.
On the other hand, if you find a werid sex cult, let me know.
I'd settle for just a normal sex cult.
NEVER SETTLE
If you don't mind people who never bathe, try these tribes in Namibia:
https://guardian.ng/life/the-namibian-tribe-where-sex-is-offered-to-guests/
god I was hoping it was like tourists show up and just get laid by natives but instead it's just weird cuckolding.
That would be Ibiza... but it only works during summer.
ohh yes! They got the kinda nightclubs you usually only see in movies.
That article kind of presents an idyllic/outdated view of the Himba people. Modern life affects them as well and a lot of young people don't want to live like that.
Interesting, and indeed a dilemma. I basically mentioned it because just yesterday I saw a guy talking about "sex in the past", and he happened to mention this, apparently in an even more idealized/outdated way.
Basically he said that a bunch of them would go through a "bonding ritual" at the age of 14, and from then on live like a sort of communal marriage, where the woman would shoo out the husband because she had a date with some other guy of the group, and that they were the "happiest people in the world" and would act surprised at outsiders' focus on their sexual practices.
From the other article, it sounded more like forced marriage and women abuse... and here it sounds like most of them want to get out of there.
Interesting series of takes.
Whoa whoa whoa. Let's not limit our options prematurely.
you gotta suck a few eggs to make an omelette
What if it was just a vanilla sex cult?
I'd join.
Does the cult have a good plan for healthcare? If so, please send me your newsletter, manifesto, religious tract, pentabarf, whatever.
I'd settle for a cult with a good dentist tbh. According to US healthcare eyes and teeth are separate from the rest of your body.
We call teeth "Luxury Bones" up here in Canada.
As somebody who was once part of a cult, it's just the same circus but worse.
Already planning on it here in Canada once my friends and I have the money for what we want to do.
Farming (+greenhousing) and some cottage rentals on the side.
Peace out, modern society!
Cottage rentals for income?
Currently my plan is to get far enough into my career that I can spend half my time in city making money and half in the woods
Exactly, cottage rentals for income. To supplement farming and other ventures, anyway.
I'm lucky that my work is 99.9% remote, so as long as I can acquire a stable internet connect I can continue to work out there if needed. Existing entirely in the woods is incredibly appealing.
I like that idea. Continuing to make money, no matter if it's just a few hundred dollars a month, is the main hurdle for me to leave. You'd still need to finance construction but it's a good long term vision.
I am worried about fire seasons/smoke seasons. At best it shortens the tourist season and at worst I lose everything : /
Yeah, that lack of startup capital is why I'm not doing it already. A bunch of us are saving to pool money together to self-finance. You can also just start with a couple of nice trailers (which you wouldn't be able to charge as much for, of course) and gradually work towards full cottages. Some cottages in areas I frequent around here are just trailers and are still going for like $300 CAD a night in the middle of September.
At least insurance should protect you against total loss?
I don't come anywhere near close to meeting the requirements for intentional communities. Chronic illness is a real bastard. I don't need much and the quality of my life could so easily be improved by just a little help from others, but everyone - even intentional communities - is caught up in focusing on how much others can help them. What I can give is less tangible, and therefore dismissed.
I don't want to abandon society but I do recognise we'd all be far better off if we lived in ways which were less isolating. Every person/family for themselves harms us all.
A huge problem is that most neighborhoods and houses aren't facilitating community. You don't need a commune or a cult as OP was joking.
I live in a house where one of the apartments is used communally by all the other residents of the house and it changes so much. It doesn't have a functioning bathroom so the landlords couldn't give it up for rent. But it has a kitchen, a balcony etc.
If you've ever heard of WOOFing that's a great place to start. It's a work trade program I did years ago, tons of farms around the world. You get room and board, just work the farm for a short term. I traveled across Canada doing that years ago and ended up staying on one for 2 years in the discovery islands off the coast of BC. One of the best times in my life. Now I live in downtown Toronto, wondering why I ever came back ahaha
I dont know, you cant really go shopping for cults. Cults go shopping for you.
In soviet Russia...
Why not a commune IN the city?
Not saying this is you, but I feel like a lotta people who wanna live in the country also want all the city amenities - internet, garbage pickup, municipal sewage, etc.
To me, the problem isn't cities, it's late stage capitalism - gentrifying neighbourhoods, driving rents beyond reach, displacing communities. Plus its zeal for car-focused infrastructure, conspicuous consumption. All that stuff.
Anyway communal life is very appealing - I long for my college days of living in a house full of peers. Even if i'm off-base with my capitalism ruins the city argument, I think we'd all do better at coping with modern life with a wider support network.
I hear they are growing more popular in the bay area? Gideon Lichfield, outgoing editor-in-chief at Wired, mentions he spends half his year living in a commune of sorts and would like to do it full time in this podcast.
https://www.wired.com/story/have-a-nice-future-podcast-19/
I live in San Francisco. It's not particularly "new" as the interview implies. Housing costs have been outrageous here for decades, so the degree to which apartments/housing are now unaffordable is only a reflection of the already ludicrous cost of living. Group housing is a "Bay Area thing" because it is solution to outrageous rents many cannot afford to pay alone. In some neighborhoods where it's possible for people to go in on a share situation in one household, it works, but it's actually becoming more difficult to find not more common, due to gentrification in tons of once affordable areas and the rise of things like VRBO and AirB&B gobbling up space which once existed on the long term market.
Thanks, I had no idea it had been developing this long. While Toronto area prices have been ridiculous for a while, I feel like we're only now hitting an inflection point where we might start seeing arrangements as you describe. There's tons of unoccupied or under occupied properties due to airbnb as well.
Very often I would like to abandon my life in reality and become a part of an ideal world which I have imagined. It is surprisingly easy to become part of a rural cult (look up "intentional communities") so it's a backup plan I have in mind if necessary, but with people we're going to be dealing with a different version of the same set of issues. We as a species are nuts.
Lol yeah I love intentional communities, I so want to join one if I could!
I used to live in a housing co-op and loved it. That being said you are going to have to deal with people intimately in that kind of living situation, so quality of life is greatly influenced by how well you mesh with the others around and things can change.
No, but finding a job in a slightly less fucked country would be great once I have sufficient work experience.
You can do it, I believe in you!!
Thank you. <3
It's a beautiful dream! Almost a decade ago my family and I left the city and bought land with some other folks. Now it's just us out here in the wilderness, others are welcome but most people can't leave the city.
It can't be too "wild" out there, if you are able to pop into Beehaw...? 😂
I would love someplace totally off the grid.
Starlink is everywhere! There is no cell service here so we had much more limited communication prior.
That sounds fantastic, yeah my partner and son are super city dependent they can never leave.
We got out of the city before door dash, grocery delivery, etc. so we don't even know what we're missing when we trek over a hundred miles to the Costco. I'd imagine that makes it easier!
Wish I could do that!
I’ve thought for a while that it would be cool to buy up a block in a suburb and do urban farming as a community.
see if there are any community gardens in your area. they’re basically what you’re talking about, although usually only the land owner and/or farm manager lives there. my favorite one around here also has a rotating volunteer position who lives on site.
My dad did it back when he was a hippy.
He still talks very fondly of the time he spent out in the Arizona desert all those decades ago.
A piece of me would like to drop out of society and live in solitude.
While I lean towards being a loner, I realized that I am probably mostly a hybrid.
I enjoy some human interaction, but also love being alone to do whatever the fuck I want.
To me a commune would be too intimate and I think would end up being like a small town type of scenario which doesn’t appeal to me.
What about a traveling circus? Bonuses: it's mobile, it's a circus by design, it's inclusive, and goofing around is just part of the culture!
I've always said if you don't want to work for clowns join the circus
This idea is precious
That's a good idea. It would be interesting to create an ideal communist utopia on a small scale so we can see how/if it actually works. Do it!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentional_community
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_intentional_communities
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_of_Egalitarian_Communities
The Spanish tried this in the 30's. It was a part of the Spanish civil war and is an interesting read. I'd also recommend On Anarchism by Noam Chomsky which goes more in depth.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Revolution_of_1936
Edit: Spelling
Abandon society - yes. Commune - JFC no. Vagabond gypsy caravan? Possibly, but only if there are werewolves and mysteriously sexy tarot card casters involved.
I do absolutely horribly in small groups of people for extended periods of time.
I would but in a commune they would probably just force me to mine or farm all day instead of doing a job I actually want
Already looking for a land that might be livable in 10/15 years
how far along is your rocket?
I'm curious where.
I’m thinking… North.
And not low lying near a coast.
Yeah, I (and I'm sure a lot of other people) had thought of that too, but now the whole North is on fire.
Yeah but that means it’s on a fire sale! points to temple
In 20 years you’ll be relaxing in mild weather while Santa tried to keep the reindeer from burning alive.
Haha, smart!
Probably hill zones: the land is easier to work than mountains, close to the plains (where there are natural water reserves) but still high enough to have lower temperatures
I'm thinking the foothills of the Canadian Rockies
"Might" or "should"? A lot of land "might" be livable, some different land "should" be livable if you build a fallout shelter and a bio-dome.
I just want more affordable housing
The fact the term "affordable housing" exists is the problem, all housing should be affordable, it's a necessity, not a damn profitmobile.
I talk about this a lot - mostly tongue in cheek (mostly) - and my partner always calls me the Unabomber afterwards, or asks when I’m publishing my manifesto.
I’m not a people person and society seems to be getting worse, plus I love rugged living and being outdoors. I can dig it.
Peace. More bandwidth for the rest of us.
When do we get some fresh kicks and an icy drink?
Not really, no. The idea of living in a small community makes me feel nauseous and panicky, and the more remote the commune the more intense the aversion.
But I wouldn't mind some sort of arrangement between some others who also like the idea of being off-grid but who loathe the idea of being in a small community, where we'd be off in the wilds with a LOT of space between us, but still come together occasionally to help each other out with various things, or be available be radio or whatever.
Similarly, the idea of being part of a nomadic group seems quite appealing to me, especially if more people join along the way and others dip in and out.
Don't drink the Kool-Aide
Avoid the apple sauce too.
I feel pretty happy in a city where I feel welcome and the neighborhood is fun. I got my family and friends around, and my bf only lives a short drive away :)
Nature isn't too far away either.
I'm honestly so close to going home and living on a kibutz
No I like not to have to worry about food every day and potentially die if I have some medical issue.
If I were younger I'd be looking at Mexico. Elevation and arable land can be found. Aboriginals would have survived if not for guns. And I think it will be a long time before the US ruins them like they do all over the world. I believe you can pretty much survive with 1acre per person in the commune. At least according to Fukuoka Masanobu.
Amateur Rappers, by The Burning Hell
Yeah I have thought about it, here's a decent list. Mind you there are many more.
https://www.treehugger.com/off-the-grid-communities-places-carving-a-sustainable-path-4863640