Microsoft cuts ties with the Surface Duo after just 2 Android version updates
windowscentral.com
Microsoft is done supporting the original Surface Duo, three years after it first launched on September 10. The company has stated from the very start that the Surface Duo would receive just three years of OS updates, meaning today is the last day that Microsoft has to stay true to its word.
Going forward, Microsoft will no longer ship new OS updates or security patches for the original Surface Duo, meaning Android 12L is the last version of the OS it will ever officially receive. Surface Duo only ever got two major OS updates, one shy of the average three that most high-end flagship Android devices get these days.
$1200 at launch, three years of updates. no wonder we're burying the planet in e-waste and plastic.
You know, I don't disagree with vendors putting whatever hardware they want in their devices, and I don't mind vendor-customized software. But what I do mind is the barrier of supporting these devices without relying on the vendor.
If I buy an x86 computer, I can use it basically however long I want to. I can put a variety of operating systems on it, and I don't really need to rely on vendors much aside from binary driver blobs, which isn't really that much of a problem these days.
I really wish that Android wasn't so customized per device. I wish I could just install upstream Android on anything that can run it, instead of special binary images for each vendor's make and model. Android is open source and all, but simply having the sources to work with is the easiest part. Making it actually work is significantly n more difficult.
Imagine buying that aforementioned x86 machine, but you had to run a giant, customized binary blob specifically made for a laptop's make and model. And you had to throw it away after a few years not because you need more resources, but because you cannot upgrade the OS anymore.
The reality is that we need laws that force them to either to continue to offer affordable support or publish all the specs and documentation when they drop support. Vendors shouldn’t be allowed to do otherwise.
That sounds pretty reasonable. I feel so owned by technology lately. It used to be exciting to have tech that you could decide when you wanted to retire it and focus spending on something new and different that served a different purpose. Now I feel like I'm stuck with all the same basic gadgets but I just need to keep throwing money at them to replace them every few years. It's about as unexciting as having to spend money on an oil change. I'm pretty primed by this as recently my electric objects picture frame just pulled the plugs on their server recently with no notice and bam, I have a black screen in my living room instead of pictures of my dog, family, and favorite artwork.
Why doesnt it work like that though? Combined with mandatory open bootloader it would free people
^pls,eu🥺^
Generally, the hardware in a small, power-efficient, SoC embedded device is going to be a lot more particular and a lot less general than your gaming computer’s motherboard. It’s harder to write general OS software for specific integrated systems rather than a big set of chips which provide an individual chip for the BIOS, specialized chips for the PCI ports, etc., all of which have become more standardized over time.
Yup. All these devices that release, like do we need 6 different iphones every year, 20 different samsung phones, etc.
It's a fucking joke.
Then stop buying six different iPhones every year and 20 different Samsung phones every year.
Fuck my bad, can't help myself.
I get it; it’s very tempting 😛
Zune : Never forget
Music players in general haven't been doing well. Phones are too big to be proper replacements for all uses.
They're doing pretty good, they just aren't a huge market like they used to be. It is a niche market nowadays.
Typically you only see people buying one for one of three reasons:
They cannot have a phone/do not want a phone
They want to separate music listening from their source of contact (getting a phone call forces you from the music)
They chase higher fidelity audio (only the case with quality DAPs)
4 (bonus). Phone has no headphone jack, but that's usually only the case in conjunction with 3
I still use my 2016 SE despite having a never phone. But I need pockets to carry that around, custom fit pockets if I want to be able to run with it without it being obstructive, because of how big even that old phone is.
3 and 4 can be fixed with a portable USB DAC/AMP. Lots of options there.
Try going on a run with one of those. I have them too but they both have their places.
Plus in my experience, DAPs tend to be able to fit bigger amps in them than USB DACs which is good for driving less efficient headphones.
Gods I loved my Zune.
If I could find a digital audio player like the Zune but with support for Tidal I'd be so happy.
I know Fiio makes some music players, not sure about Tidal though.
WM1AM2, though if you're fine with using Bluetooth streaming (LDAC) on the WM1A I'd recommend getting that and installing walkman one on it instead.
I'd really rather not encourage the android based DAPs, it is good for a phone or tablet, but it makes the DAP part a bigger pain in the ass since they typically do NOT get updates to the base operating system, namely due to the fact that they have to design the audio component from the ground up. Linux based DAPs are a lot better in my experience.
I'll say that it is easier for me because I download most of my music, but I don't have any problem streaming from my devices to my WM1A. Keep in mind you're likely to be within earshot of these devices anyways because a DAP isn't going to have a sim card, so it either needs WiFi or proximity to a device that does, but the benefit with LDAC is that you have your library accessible from those devices as well.
The price alone makes that a non-start for me, but thank you for the recommendation nonetheless!
Yeah that's kinda why I recommended the previous model. The amp is pretty much the same and you can get them on eBay in great condition for about $400. The A55 is also a great choice that can be had for about $150, however if you want something cheaper that can stream, I'd check out the HiBy R3 or R3II
I'll look at those, thank you!
This is why I got a Nokia Lumia 1020 and used some duct tape to stick it to a Motorola Droid. I get it all: multitasking. 2 screens that fold up. Great camera. 2 SIM card slots. 2 operating systems for max compatibility. Plus, a slide-out keyboard and multiple batteries.
People ask me “Is it secure?” Shiiiiit. Come try me and we’ll see who is secure when you get knocked upside the head with it. “Is it up to date?” It’s two phones, my man. I’m up to date your girl and her friend.
No OS updates is one thing, but no security patches is not great. The base Surface Duo can easily do another 2-3 years.
Here's hoping someone gets LineageOS ported.
Yea, especially if this is a second machine for productivity. The Duo is hard to beat and Lineage will help it lots.
Yup. Just like my Nexus 10. Even though no one loves it I still do...
As one of the 17 people on the planet who daily drives the Surface Duo 2, which I traded up from my SD1 for on launch day - I really hope they pull it together for this "maybe/maybe not" SD3 next winter.
This is my all time favorite device I've ever owned, and every day I dread the standard wear and tear knowing the few New In Box Surface Duo 2 devices are getting more and more expensive by the day, and there are literally 0 devices in this category besides the SD2.
Sad times.
What category would that be, put of curiosity?
Pocketable, foldable tablet with split displays, a pen with haptic feedback and rigid glass screens for stylus use without damage. Modern Android and a great camera don't hurt and those make the SD2 better than the SD1; otherwise they're fairly similar besides the accessory compatibility and some halo functions like wirelessly charging my Slim Pen with the magnet case.
I travel a ton, edit spreadsheets at clients site visits and trade shows while I have Teams open on the other screen, and use the stylus to mark up PDFs for architects and subcontractors. I enjoy being almost required to multi-task when I have my phone open, and the Duo 2 is the best phone for multitasking, bar-none.
I treat mine more like a dual screen setup than a fold-able setup. As far as I've seen, none of the other folding phones work like that and my entire device ecosystem is tied together through OneDrive, so having it natively on the phone is awesome.
Ah yes, I forgot that this has actual screens unlike most other foldables. Thanks for the sad reminder.
I moved from the SD1 to the Samsung Fold and love it.
I've been considering the GFold5 if my SD2 bites the dust, at least over a Pixel Fold. But I'm making this thing run until it completely dies.
I just worry about those plastic feeling screens, such as on my wife's GFlex4- I'm always worried I'd scratch the interior with a fingernail and a stylus for editing a spreadsheet is just a no go, from what I understand. Have they improved in that regard?
I upgraded from the fold 2 to the fold 5, specifically for the pen support. the screen does feel more durable but it is still soft. I don't fear the pen scratching it though.
I will say, there have been many times I've taken the pen to draw something on the cover screen and get disappointed there's no support for a pen on the cover screen. maybe the fold 6 will?
I haven't had any issues with the inner screen and it doesn't feel soft to me. I didn't even put a protector on it. I do pay for the extra Samsung insurance every month, tho.
I bought a SD1 a year ago to use as my work phone. Not for emails and IM clients, but mainly as a secondary prepaid phone that work gets the number for if I'm on call. It's been awesome and has also been a great little ebook reader. I'm kinda sad there are no more updates but I know I didn't use it to it's full capabilities.
That's going to hurt any kind of confidence users have for Microsoft-designed mobile devices going forward IMO.
A bit of a shame since the Duo was a pretty nice looking device
Buying into Microsoft's word is like buying into Google's: if it's not in the product, it won't be coming. I got burnt by wp7->wp8 and then again when they closed wp8 without reason. I'm not counting on them staying on the smartphone market long enough to establish themselves.
Same, but I also imported a Zune all the way over Europe because of course I liked it
They stuck to their word, technically. 3 years, with monthly patches for security, on a device that sold abysmally. There are rumors they sold (most of) the first run of SD2 in the first 4 months, and didn't bother to produce any more. I know they've been out of the consumer SD2 since July/August of 2022- as of January this year, not even my Fortune 50 Corpo clients can get MSFT to pony up a SD2 replacement under warranty or otherwise. They just write a cheque to your account if you request as much.
Microsoft's mobile team Icarus flew too close to the poorly advertised sun, in this case. Expensive ass phone to build, expensive ass phone to buy, but damn it's a great device.
The continuation of why I don't buy Microsoft hardware.
I don't think you get a lot more support than that on most Android devices. They're generally pretty shit for continued updates, as they'd quite like you to throw away a perfectly good device the instant you've finished paying for it and get a shiny new one.
Samsung is the largest Android OEM in the West and they give 4 years of updates. Google does 3 major upgrades and 5 years of security patches. There's no reason why a multibillion dollar legacy software giant can't do the same.
Google only used to do 3 years until the Pixel 6 in 2021.
The whole Android ecosystem is a complete mess. The fact that you need to rely on the device manufacturer for your updates is a nonsense idea.
IOS isn't that much different. You still rely on Apple for updates.
It's become obvious that their success with Xbox was pure dumb luck.
They used a Chip from 2018, So It was already "old" when they released the phone in 2020.
Not making excuses for them and Qualcomm are equally as shit because they just drop support so quickly.
I am aware of other chips that are supported longer than it.
I'm having issues finding an article on how once installed Linux on a Surface Duo, but there's a got page on building the kernels so I'm guessing it's doable.
Now that updates are done, maybe all the Linux users can find them for cheap and convert them
If you find it, please update me, I'll snag one for sure
both of y'all should try here: https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface/wiki/Installation-and-Setup
Sadly this is just the Intel/x86 Surface. The Duo is an ARM devices and doesn't work the same way.
It's like one needs some patches so some hw works properly. The other one needs rewrite most of stuff to barely function. That's why so little Linux ARM device except ones made to run it in the first place. Generally ARM devices run Linux like able to run Android, but the other way around doesn't always hold (more like 99.99% as seen in all Android phones)
damn I didn't realize they were arm devices, I assumed all surfaces were x86. thanks for the info!
More like a Pi than a Surface Pro architecture-wise, but there's still plenty of cool Linux software that runs on that
I didn't even know any of the Surface products ran Android.
Just the phone
Linux time boiz!
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Microsoft is done supporting the original Surface Duo, three years after it first launched on September 10.
The company has stated from the very start that the Surface Duo would receive just three years of OS updates, meaning today is the last day that Microsoft has to stay true to its word.
Going forward, Microsoft will no longer ship new OS updates or security patches for the original Surface Duo, meaning Android 12L is the last version of the OS it will ever officially receive.
Surface Duo only ever got two major OS updates, one shy of the average three that most high-end flagship Android devices get these days.
Microsoft hasn't been working on new features or bug fixes for Surface Duo in months anyway, so it's not like current Surface Duo users are going to be missing out on much outside of security patches.
Plus, with support for third-party ROMs, enthusiasts can install a custom version of Android 13/14 on their devices.
The original article contains 254 words, the summary contains 163 words. Saved 36%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Pretty standard for Android phones. I don't know of many that go to 3 versions besides the Pixel.
As much as I dislike Apple, I do have to give it to them for software support. The oldest phone that has the current iOS is the iPhone 8, a phone from 2017. 6 years of updates. That makes it as old as a Pixel 2, and that only goes to Android 11, from 2020.
My Samsung A71 from 2020 came with Android 10 and is currently on 13 and it's a midrange model.
Same with my S20 FE.
S20 is at least flagship
I'm no expert but I imagine that with a device like this, which will no doubt be popular amongst techie-types, there'll be a custom ROM out for it soon enough
There's a very grassroots Windows 10 ARM hack for the SD1, actually. It's quirky, and lacks a LOAD of the driver blob that comes in a normal x64 install of Windows on AMD or Intel, but it can make outbound calls and run simple WinonARM apps.
That's cool if you're into Windows, but Linux or even Lineage OS should be able to run on it.
Pathetic. Even more pathetic that Microsoft doesn’t even make its own mobile OS anymore.
I lost hope for Microsoft after the RT.
Never trust in microcrap
By the way: I'm running Arch on my surface 3 and I'm loving it .
they had a chance but decided to self sabotage . they have no chance now that they are using android. who would pick them over the real version?
The "real version"? There is no "real version" of Android. I wouldn't pick Microsoft specifically because they don't have a track record of supporting their phones.
Sure there is: https://source.android.com
And what phone runs that source without manufacturer tweaks?
If you want android you'd normally go with a phone that is supported by the main contributors /maintainers. doesn't even have to be made by google. but I think that was already pretty clear so you might just be a contrarian. please correct me if you actually had a point.
I think I made the point pretty clear... There really isn't a phone with the "real android" and it's best to check the company's track record of updates. It seems like you just reworded my point while missing that I just stated the same thing.