Tesla owners are typically white men earning six figures

L4sBot@lemmy.worldmod to Technology@lemmy.world – 354 points – Meet the typical Tesla owner: A white male homeowner with a household income over $130,000
businessinsider.com

Tesla owners are overwhelmingly men, and the most common occupations are engineer, software engineer, and manager of operations, one study found.

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“Six figures.”

Can we retire this phrase? A lot of these people are earning multi-hundred-thousand dollar salaries. And many of them live in expensive areas where $100k is not some magic number that means you’re rich.

It’s just such a cringey phrase. Not specific enough to be useful, and loaded with economic misconceptions.

Agreed. Between my wife and I we gross close to 200k. With a house in a Boston Suburb and 2 kids, it’s solidly middle class. Certainly a far cry from rich.

I think that’s far from Tesla money. I drive a 10 year old VW (Passat) and she drives a 4 year old Honda (Odyssey).

Do you own the house?

Yes (mortgage) but even that was a bit of luck/circumstance. I’m the only child of an only child…when my grandmother died I bought out her house from the estate at a really good price.

Stayed there for five years and poured in a bit of sweat equity.

When we sold it went for over double what we paid. Our new house isn’t anything special (4bed/1.5 bath, 1100sqft 1970s cape-style), but it’s already risen in value nearly 50% since we bought it.

We also refi’d last year. My wife wants to move back to RI and closer to family, but even a lateral move (similar home, similar neighborhood, similar value) would still cost much more than I’d want to pay due to the higher interest rates.

Honestly if it weren’t for my grandmother dying I’d probably still be renting. I have no idea how people afford down payments while also renting and living a life.

Especially in a HCOL area. We aren’t “truly” a Boston Suburb. We are outside the 495 belt and closer to Providence. Still doesn’t keep my modest house from being worth close to half a million now.

The use of “six figures” as a measure of affluence goes back to at least the 60’s… if we use 1970 as a baseline, a salary of $100,000 then is $800,000 today, accounting for inflation.

Inflation isn’t the whole picture , but helps to demonstrate how dated the phrase is.

This is interesting, thank you for this. Makes me feel less bad

This makes a lot of sense. Tesla is a slightly higher-end car, and it's not surprising that it attracts people from the engineering fields.

People who work in engineering/tech would be slightly more inclined to buy cutting-edge products.

The funny thing is that it’s objectively not a higher end car. It’s just a cheap Corolla with a big computer in it. Tesla’s build quality is also complete shit, as easily seen in the panel fitment (or anything fitment).

“ The funny thing is that it’s objectively not a higher end car. It’s just a cheap Corolla”

I don’t know if I can agree with that, lol. Teslas are incredibly fun to drive, are the safest cars ever made, drive themselves on the freeway (how well is a debate, but still), cost very little to fuel etc etc.

Very different than a Corolla, and I love me a Corolla!

Depends on if you define “high end.” Most people consider the build quality as a major factor in what makes a car “high end.” Tesla’s are notorious for some of the worst, if not THE worst build quality in the industry. The materials are cheap in quality and QA is seemingly non-existent, with cars frequently being shipped that are duds or begin to literally fall apart (like steering wheels coming off mid drive) extremely quickly.

A friend of mine bought a new Model 3 at launch here in Germany. He had to drive a couple of hundred kilometers to pick it up in a city with a port. When he arrived, he was escorted to a warehouse with 100s of Teslas in it. His was actually outside in the parking lot. He was told that he could inspect the car for one hour to find potential faults like panel gaps, scratches in the paint or runny paint (it had been raining the night before and the car was still wet lol).

He found two fault which were going to be sorted out for him no charge. He told me this while we were sitting in the vehicle and I said "oh, so stuff like this scratch in the dashboard here?" and he looked at it and said "... I haven't even noticed that one -_-"

All in all a very strange way to sell a car and pretty unheard of, especially here in Germany and with a brand new car.

Tesla is weird here in they don’t have “regular dealerships”. You buy direct from the manufacturer, instead of a private owner dealership chain. Idk how Tesla deliver cars specifically but every time I’ve bought a car you test drive it, then you look it over. You see if it’s missing anything like floor mats or they are adding something like clear vinyl or CarPlay they give you basically an IOU for those thing. Also, if you notice anything like a ding or scratch you get that in writing too. I usually don’t take delivery until everything is there/fixed so I don’t have to go back and forth 10 million times. It sounds like your friends experience was pretty similar.

I have however been inside their service center and know quite a few Tesla mechanics. That’s run quite differently to other dealerships service depts I’ve been in.

I’ll never own a Tesla because the surveillance sketches me out, but their “cheaper” models can do 0-60 in like three seconds with full torque. That’s preeeeeeeeetty higher end.

Virtually all electric cars go 0-60 in under 6 seconds, with most around 4 seconds.

But even so, I didn’t dispute the performance of the Tesla in terms of driving power, just commenting on the poor build quality and how some people may exclude it from being considered high end because of that.

That’s fair! For the cost my friend paid for his, I would say it’s a much higher end car than any other cars in that bracket, features-and-performance-wise. It’s been a few years now and nothing feels shoddy, the interior isn’t crazy impressive but nothing is broken!

The surveillance is one of the features I like. Built in dash cameras that surround the car and work non-stop, even when parked? Hell yes. If someone ever fucks my car up in a parking lot and takes off, I'll have something more substantial than just a dent or busted mirror to show the insurance company and possibly take action against the person who did it.

I love the idea of those features, but not to a placed dialed into a headquarters 24/7 transmitting all of my data to a private Corp. SUPER convenient and awesome features, but Tesla was already busted sharing what were supposed to be private videos around the office of people driving in their cars.

Yeah that part I agree with. I like the idea of the cameras and understand why they are needed for the self driving; but I want it all self contained. I don't want any of that data to leave the car unless I pull it out from a thumb drive or otherwise physically connected device.

Fast doesn’t equal high end. Fit and finish and overall build quality and reliability do. If you look at a Bentley or Rolls (so so not my type of car, but I respect what goes into one), you can instantly tell the workmanship and quality product that went into the car. You look at a Tesla and you could easily be on a Toyota or Chevy lot.

Also, pretty much all electric cars are that fast off the line. That’s the beauty of electric vehicles.

Comma.ai will let you add driver assistance to most cars almost as good as Tesla and with OTA updates. Under $2k too so cheaper than FSD.

We’ll see! They’ve been saying that for a long time. My point is Tesla is the most advanced you can buy currently, and that appears unlikely to change anytime soon. They have more cars on the road collecting data and improving their systems than anyone. It’s not even close..

They are behind in their tech. They almost certainly can’t overcome this without changing everything. And the tech is what makes everyone desire a Tesla. There are actually higher end cars with the same or better tech now.

They have some of the worst build quality in the industry. Shit, even musk agrees they have shit build quality.

While they may rate high in safety ratings, I personally don’t like my car spontaneously combusting and/or locking me inside because some dipshit defaulted it to locked when the battery dies. Who the fuck decided on that!?!?!?

If you strip away the big screen and the (now) inferiors gadgets, you’re left with a Corolla with really bad fit and finish.

I’ve been in my mate’s model S*, and lemme tell ya, 0-60 in three seconds is hilariously NOT “objectively not a high end car” lawl

Find me a Corolla that can do that

Edit: I was wrong, it’s the standard model, not the S! I forgot the midrange one, but it’s below an S. It still has two motors and launch… go fast, though!

As I said to someone else, speed doesn’t equal high end. Nor does a price tag. Fit and finish, and build quality and reliability do. Look at a real high end car and then look at a Tesla and tell me they are even in the same league.

That person was also me hahaha

I get where you’re coming from, but as a person who loves Corollas, a Tesla is in another world from sitting in one. It’s nothing like a fancy Bentley or whatever, but at its price point it feels fancy enough to be in and it demolishes everything else performance-wise. I wouldn’t say it’s not high-end, but everyone can have their own opinion.

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I don’t think you know what “objective” means. At least define your criteria more broadly to make a hyperbolic claim like this.

The interior is not on the level of Mercedes but the whole package counting performance, drive and features is luxury.

People fall over themselves to talk down Tesla since Elon is a prick but let’s please try to stay rational here vs knee jerk reddit like reactions.

I'm in the market to replace my current EV, having looked at the M3 and Y, locally here in New Zealand the panel gaps look perfect although these might be the Chinese made models?

Panel gaps were mostly an early model issue afaik

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Overall, not surprised.

Couple of points I noticed were missing:

  1. No race-related data was reported regarding the Model 3.
  2. No data at all from the Model Y.

These are their most affordable models, so I’m reading this article in terms of the Model X & Model S, and not every owner. The data did say that the Model 3 was predominantly male-owned, and I expected nothing less from a car marketed as a sports car.

A state that was once identified as “Camry California”, the Model Y exceeding Camry sales in the state is a big enough deal to include that data to qualify an article that describes all Tesla owners.

It's consistent with the idea that mostly tech workers buy Teslas. It does not really sell to people outside this demographic.

Interestingly, I think only one of the countless Tesla owners I know works in tech.

Around me, I see lots of soccer moms driving them, and I wouldn't say I live in a particularly affluent area. I do, however, live near a nuclear plant (11th largest in the world, in fact) and have relatively cheap electricity.

Edit: fucking cry more, @Hypx

Those are often pretty wealthy people.

Til the middle class is considered "wealthy." Maybe I should be more concerned about people like you screaming that we should eat the rich, since clearly your idea of wealth is based on your own socioeconomic standing and not actual numbers. Just like your understanding of EVs, actually! Hmm, a pattern emerges!

@eltimablo @L4s @vacuumpizzas @Hypx

to most of the world, what we consider middle class, is extrodinarily wealthy beyond imagination

The top selling EV in what's considered a developing economy, China, is a Tesla Model Y. And whilst the USD carries some weight in other economies. Middle-class is middle-class in the US.

You sound like a right-wing troll at this point.

Yeah that’s not even a little surprising

Hence why it is a fad. Just a toy for rich people who work in the tech industry.

This is true for me, I have an S.

I'll also never buy another tesla again but I'll drive this until the wheels fall off. It's 5 years old now.

Always refreshing to see somebody who owns one of these cars and hasn't immediately forgotten all expectations of build quality from an automotive manufacturer. I've seen intelligent and analytical people just turn their brains off at the suggestion that these cars aren't perfect, when the procedure for getting one repaired reads like it's from Apple.

How is the battery holding up? All Tesla owners I know sold theirs before the 2 year mark worrying that they might need to replace the battery for the price of a new car, always sounded like a misconception to me.

Even for all that is correct to criticize about Tesla's build quality, the batteries do hold up a while;

Even Tesla's warranty cites 70% capacity after 8 years / 120k miles, which roughly tracks with real world results.

Although I'd never buy one, the battery seems to be one of the least issue prone areas; usually people cite interior/exterior build quality, a total lack of serviceability and software issues as the main things when it comes to Teslas.

We used to receive the US-built Tesla's, and now we receive a mix from the Chinese and US factories. The Chinese ones are way better built. Even the options from MG and BYD are impressive. But it's not all great though, GWM Ora that many journalists are going on about is... Less than acceptable when it comes to quality.

I've even had fewer software issues once I got into the FSD beta, at least as far as interior stuff and general driving. The FSD itself is much better, too, but it's still in beta so it kicks up the odd issue here and there, but as long as you're paying attention to the road like you're supposed to be it's absolutely fine.

The thing gets me about the "$XX,000" battery replacement figure is that people are talking about the dealer quote for a battery replacement. If your vehicle is in warranty (and Tesla has an 8 year battery warranty), then the dealer replaces the battery for free. If it's not under warranty anymore, there's no reason to get your battery replaced at the dealer. Third party shops will do it for a fraction of the cost.

I’ve heard the tires are what really cost money because the car is so heavy it wears them out really fast.

It’s really not too bad compared to any other new car these days. I’m at 20K miles on mine and I’ve still got enough tread left to pass state inspection. As for weight it’s definitely not a light car, but my model 3 long range is supposedly 4250lbs, where a BMW M3 is around 3900 lbs, so not a massive difference (but a difference nonetheless).

What really gets you is how you drive it. Electric cars (and especially teslas) have a TON of torque, so if you’re constantly flooring it, that’ll wear out the tires super fast. But I bought mine mostly for safety and tech, so I keep it in chill acceleration mode and drive like a granny to keep my family safe

Most modern suburban tanks SUVs and Crossovers have basically the same problem. They have to have shockingly large wheels and tires just to distribute that weight half-decently. I imagine the problem is worse with the weight of the battery.

Holding up fine. I'm about 7% degradation, 2018 over 80k miles on it. 100D. I've been very happy with it as far as anything goes. Never serviced, just a few things like lights that I needed replaced.

Would you drive a car from the guy who can't even handle a website?

I wanted a Tesla before the whole children in a cave episode. Then it went all downhill from then.

Well, the website is a bit of a distraction. The car sells well in Europe and China respectively, not just the US. Much like how SpaceX has largely been a success globally as well.

If I were rich I would like an EV based on the fact that I hate gasoline.

But I dont trust my road safety on a billionaire crybaby who gets triggered by the word "cisgender"

When our current car dies, I'd like to replace it with an EV - but 0% chance it'll be a Tesla.

Lots of better options out now. And in 5 years, Tesla may be the worst of them, given how bad their quality control is.

I just wish it wasn't their charging network that manufacturers were moving to, but I have to admit that it is better than the alternatives. And we do need a single standard like gas.

I wouldn't say there are lots of better options out there. There's definitely a lot of options. But there aren't many that I have seen that are better. Those that are, are more expensive. Those that are cheaper and better are Chinese and aren't available in the US market. I know this because we do receive Chinese vehicles here. From memory, top three selling EV brands here are Tesla, and two other Chinese brands. There are some equivalent alternative options, but it might not be for all people either.

This is exactly it for me too. I’m definitely going electric in my next vehicle, but it definitely isn’t going to be a Tesla.

I said the same thing. Then I test drove every EV I could get my hands on and had an appointment to buy the ID.4. Then I finally caved in and test drove a model 3 just to be sure I wasn't making a mistake. I was making a mistake. The model 3 blew everything else away at a lower price (excluding the Bolt EUV which was just boring an uncomfortable but $10k cheaper). I bought the model 3. I hate Musk and I refuse to buy his overpriced memestock too. But the car is truly fantastic.

@WetBeardHairs

you hate the fascist, and you just can't help supporting and enriching him further, because you got a better deal on a commodity. oh boy, aren't you smart. and this is how the world ends.

I bet most new car owners are in the same demographic. New cars are expensive as shit these days.

I for one am shocked.

The only Tesla owner I know is a Musk-loving, ancap, STEM-bro who probably makes around $160k.

As an engineer, I often find being surrounded by engineers to be exhausting lol

Most of the Tesla owners I know are Chinese. The early adopters were Caucasian, but now that they're mainstream, they're being bought by pretty much everyone.

Yes. Teslas are pure fads. And the BEV is just a big greenwashing scam. It just replaces one unsustainable idea with another.

Engineers are easily swayed by hype and propaganda just like everyone else.

Teslas are now the more expensive finance bro Patagonia vests, but on the road I’m seeing more polestars and other Ev’s.

Yeah I only got mine because it had the best range at the time and went "zoom" real good. I'd get an Aptera (if it ever comes out) for my next one though.

In DFW its mostly indians and asians that drive teslas, especially in Plano and Frisco. Its completely replaced the fully loaded honda accord and toyota camry as THE car to get.

I work in car insurance and noticed this whenever I see a Tesla on a policy too, they’re also usually located in the Bay Area, Texas, or a rich suburb of Seattle.

I'm a white man who falls into that category, I'd never own a Tesla, they're too fucking expensive. Maybe I'll get an EV some day, but it won't be a Tesla. For now, I'll stick to my 6 year old car that still runs well and didn't cost me a second mortgage.

Sounds about right

Yep. It basically proves that Teslas are a toy for the rich. It will eventually be realized that BEVs are a fad.

I thought Tesla's were for poor kids who live in trailer parks

They're toys for rich people. The whole concept is a just big fad.

As a white man, making six figures with a stem job is love to have a Tesla. My 200 year house and it’s wiring disagree however. 😔

Trust me, there are many other EVs put there that are cheaper and have much higher build quality. You don't want to sign up to the Church of Elon.

IMHO Tesla is too unreliable. There are enough EVs available that are more reliable (and cheaper).

I just want an EV that is:

-Reasonably priced.

-User repairable/modifiable.

-No stupid luxury gimmicks (fake "self driving" or "self parking", 360° cameras for outside view, electronic locks that will most likely fail in a couple years, etc...)

-NO FUCKING SUBSCRIPTION SERVICES like those stupid heated seats!!

Hyundai announced they're not doing those stupid subscriptions, might be worth considering.

-User repairable/modifiable.

It'll have to run on a couple of AAA-batteries then.

I always wanted a Tesla. I'm now in a position I could buy one comfortably, but now I have a spine and won't.

Same here. The electric car tech is changing so fast too. Eying the VWs but happy with my volt.

What are you considering now, just out of curiosity?

Tesla's are Thermomix for tech bros.

I mean Model 3 is also now literally the #1 bestselling car in the entire world

Also quite popular in China. Really it's the most affordable non-Chinese option, outside the US market. Unless you count the Tata Nexo, in which case, the Chinese options would be better...

In years past, I toyed with the idea of getting a Tesla, but they were always too pricy for me. As I'm approaching 10 years on my current vehicle and have a 50+ mile one-way commute for the first time in 15 years (one day a week, but still...), I'm wondering if replacement will be sooner or later. I'd like to go EV or at least hybrid, but I know that it won't be a Tesla in any event.

I did have a coworker several years ago who imported a Honda Fit EV from California. He was not exactly happy in the winter when he had to trade heat for distance. I imagine things are better with newer models.

As a white male renter with a household income of $37,000 I don't own a Tesla. So that checks out.

My wife got a Tesla and has a nice figure. As far as I can tell, she doesn't have 6 figures.

The best deal is to lease the jeep wrangler 4xe plug in, they pass the 7500 onto the buyer and by lease end the battery is weakened so give the car back instead of paying 5k to replace the battery plus by lease end new battery tech will be here

This is why BEVs are fundamentally just a fad. It is a toy for rich white men and little else. It is fundamentally too expensive for normal people. There not even the most important car in the household, and is usually just the second car.

There's plenty of BEVs that are competitively priced to any other new car: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g32463239/new-ev-models-us/

They might not be the car you choose to take on a road trip, but most days, I only need to drive less than 20 miles anyway.

You're joking? The first one on that list is literally the Hummer EV. Completely unaffordable for most people. This is just more evidence that BEVs are a fad, not the other way around.

And there are 5 other cars below $40k. Just because 1 car is expensive doesn't mean others are.

The list is dominated by SUVs and pick-up trucks. The "below $40k" market is all subcompacts or compacts and are the equivalent of $20k ICE cars. It is not a competitive technology. If anything, it just proves how underwhelming BEVs actually are.

https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/bolt-euv

So you just have a hydrogen full cell manufacturer's name as your username and post extensively in https://kbin.social/m/Hydrogen for fun or do you think you maybe have a conflict of interest here and are being disingenuous?

Because I want to tell the truth, not swallow marketing propaganda from Tesla. In reality, BEVs are a fad and no amount of wishful thinking will change that.

The name is a coincidence. I've used this name for a long time (from elsewhere to be clear).

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Do you have anything to support this? EVs are increasing share of the market so when do you estimate that will end? Do you also think EVs are a fad in China?

In the 90's you could've written an equally true headline replacing "Tesla owners" with "PC owners". It's not an indication that BEV's are a fad, it's an indication that wealth inequality and sexism continues to this day.

There is no Moore's law of batteries. BEVs are always going to be fairly expensive compared to other types of cars. They will not magically improve like PCs have.

Not to mention BEVs are old technology. They literally pre-date internal combustion cars.

@Hypx There's no Moore's Law for batteries because they're a different technology. Transistors today are still fundamentally the same as the first transistor, made in 1947. Batteries, on the other hand, are constantly evolving. The first LiPo battery wasn't invented until 1997, and there are multiple new battery technologies currently being studied, like solid state batteries.

@L4s @Catch42

Are you seriously joking? A transistor today is much smaller and faster than what existed in 1947. That is what is driving Moore's law.

Batteries evolve only very slowly, and run into hard physical limits at every step. As a result, BEVs are very expensive and have major downsides like weight, long recharge times, etc.

@Hypx Yes transistors are smaller and faster, that's the literal definition of Moore's Law. But a transistor today is a smaller, faster version of the exact same technology as the first transistor, applying a small signal to pass current between doped semiconductor junctions, the only major difference being changing the semiconductor from germanium to silicon.
Batteries, however, are fundamentally different from when they were first invented. Yes, it's still storing electrical energy as chemical energy, but the chemistry has changed so much since the first batteries. The word "polymer" wouldn't even exist for another 20 odd years. And new technology is constantly being discovered, such as solid state batteries or supercapacitors.
And if you want to talk about physical limits, Moore's Law is essentially dead. We're nearing a point where you'd have to split atoms to make a smaller transistor. Batteries are limited by their chemical makeup, transistors are limited by the laws of physics.

@L4s @Catch42

That’s ridiculous. You basically admitted that we switched from germanium to silicon, but that this apparently doesn’t count as a difference.

Not to mention that this is massively off-topic. The point is that batteries do not improve as fast as transistors did in the 1990s. Hence why an analogy is wrong.

And if you are aware that Moore’s law is (more or less) dead today, then you should understand the problem that batteries are facing. They too are hitting hard physical limits. You talk of solid state batteries but they are nowhere to be found right now. Clearly, this is a hard problem and future batteries will not magically be far superior.

But ultimately, there are other green ideas not called the BEV. Including other types of EVs. This is why I try to make it clear that I am talking about BEVs specific. Not EVs in general. Once other people become aware of this fact, it will become much clearer that the BEV is a fad. It is an expensive and very limited idea. It is arguably an idea stuck in the mid-2000s, and its advocates have simply failed to move on.

I think the point that is counter to yours is that we are nowhere near the fundamental limits of energy density for batteries. It's probable we are near a fundamental limit for LiPo, but the point is that battery tech improves by changing technologies/chemistries. BEVs couldn't exist at all when the best rechargeable battery tech was lead-acid, but were enabled by LiPo. Theres most likely a type of battery you can't even imagine that has yet to be invented that could store >10x or more energy than current LiPo per unit cost or mass.

I would say that's pretty unlikely there will be a 10x improvement in battery chemistry. At some point, we will have to deal with the fundamental limitations of the technology. That will likely imply a different kind of EV. Other conversations in this thread have brought up the FCEV, which is honestly the mostly likely guess for what comes after the BEV. In other words, the solution is to move beyond batteries, not pretend we can just improve batteries ad absurdum.

Also, this is basically the point of the book The Innovator's Dilemma. Technology does not improve linearly exclusively. At some point, major shifts in the market will have to happen. If you think about this problem honestly, you probably have to conclude that the limitations of the BEV must be solved by a big leap forward, not incremental improvements in batteries. And if you can reach that conclusion, then you must realize that the BEV has to be a transitional technology. Perhaps, even a fad.

If we're talking approaching fundamental limits, Hydrogen fuel cell is not a great comparison. A high pressure tank can only get so light, even with linerless ultra high strength carbon fiber pressure vessels, the mass of the vessel is maybe 6-10x the mass of the hydrogen it carries. To increase specific energy there you need to go to cryogenics which is a whole technology leap and has its own set of challenges.

Battery tech has been improving more than you have seen, clearly. Since '08, lithium batteries have increased energy density by 8x (https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1234-april-18-2022-volumetric-energy-density-lithium-ion-batteries). The best LiPo batteries are around 0.9MJ/kg right now, but there's no fundamental reason a battery couldn't achieve 9MJ/kg. Lithium-air batteries could theoretically achieve way higher energy density than that even (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium%E2%80%93air\_battery), and have already been demonstrated in a lab to achieve more than 5x what current commercial automotive batteries are doing.

Except those fundamentally limits are far higher. The fact is that hydrogen stores energy at 120 MJ/kg. Even at 5% weight efficiency, that's 6 MJ/kg. Or 1,666 Wh/kg. Far beyond any battery.

Your link is seriously lying. 8x is the gap between lead-acid and li-ion batteries. The claims are simply impossible. The author must be unknowingly comparing lead-acid battery powered cars to li-ion battery powered cars. I cannot see any other way his claim is true.

A lithium-air battery is literally a fuel cell. In fact, what did you think hydrogen fuel cells were this entire time?

On one had we've got links to the department of energy and to Wikipedia. And just some hand waving on the other hand.

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Driving with something that power dense is incredibly dangerous. You're literally driving a bomb, dynamite is 4.6 MJ/kg

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Calling them BEVs is misleading and damaging to EVs as a whole, because you're right, batteries do have their limitations, at least today's batteries. The proper industry term is FEV, fully electric vehicle. Choosing to limit EVs to only batteries is an arbitrary decision made for argument's sake, but instead of looking at how they can be improved, you're just focusing on why it'll fail. A "battery" is anything that stores energy, not just the traditional battery, and once EVs are the norm, they probably won't be using LiPos, they'll be using something that hasn't been invented yet.

Are you talking about FCEVs? You can also include directly electrified vehicles, but that is mostly mass transit.

And yes, electrification as a whole will succeed. But BEVs probably are not. I call them fads because they are just toys for the rich and they are unlikely to be affordable for most people.

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Do you work in the fossil fuel or hydrogen industry?

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The same demographic as MAGA supporters.

Engineering, software engineering and management generally require intelligence and critical thinking.

MAGA entirely lack that

Nah, smart people can be idiots. Ted Cruz graduated from Princeton and Harvard Law. Ben Carson used to be a world class neurosurgeon. Rand Paul is technically still a doctor. All three colossal morons as well.

I know software engineers who are Republicans, and even some who voted for Trump.

I know Trump isn't popular, but there's no need to be so condescending.

Calling your political opponents so unintelligent that they can't even hold certain occupations is incredibly snobby and rude. It makes you look very immature.

So they still support trump to this day?

There's a few engineers at my work that voted for and still support Trump

I’m sorry to hear that. My condolences

I'm sorry that you're so blinded by political hatred.

Sometimes people think differently than you do, and that's okay: it's a part of life. Most people understand and accept this, but some don't.

I'm able to get along with people I disagree with politically because I respect their right to make choices, and I don't center my entire identity and life around political ideology. There's much more to a person than that.

Glad to see the same bad hot takes on Lemmy as on Reddit.

MAGA supporters are white ev drivers? Lol.

As a software engineer and a Tesla owner, I have to say that pretty much all the Republicans/MAGA supporters I know are from outside of work. Most people I work with are definitely left of center.

MAGA supporters drive EVs?

This is totally anecdotal, but of the two tesla owners i know, both are left leaning and software devs (not white though). I have also have few maga relatves that shit on electric anything, like they gave me crap for having an electric mower.

It’s part of the US right wing identity to be against anything that might reduce the risk of climate catastrophe. That is hilarious about your electric mower! Same experience with right wingers shitting on EVs, though they softened a bit since Elon blew up Twitter.

Can we avoid turning Lemmy.world into a political car fight and stick to the particulars of the issues instead of name calling. Whether right or wrong saying “that’s the same demographic as trump supporters” doesn’t add to the conversation, it’s just inflammatory

My crazy theory is that Musk’s sudden political shift is because the above demographic was getting saturated with Teslas, and he needed to broaden his market. He learned from the blind loyalty Trump gets from his cult of personality, and is looking to duplicate that success.

I have the same theory, but man as much as I love my car, I do hate how every time I tell someone I drive a Tesla I get an eyebrow raise like they’re waiting for me to say something racist or transphobic. I just really like the car and despite test driving every other EV under 60K couldn’t find another one that I liked :(

Probably, but probably not always. The Biden/Trump voting ratio according to 2020 CNN exit polls for people making over $100k is 42%/54%. Interestingly, when you go above $200k income it's an even 44%/44% split. So definitely not a given. Assuming most Tesla owners are college educated (which I'm sure has its exceptions) then it's worth mentioning that white men that graduated from college voted 48%/51% (Biden/Trump). Lastly the most confounding factor for me is that people buying Teslas are likelier to care about climate change. That's a voting gap of 69%/29%. So I really don't know. If I had to guess the split of Tesla owners is closer to 50/50 on political stance. I think there's just as much a fair argument to be made that it skews left given that the left cares more about climate change and Tesla grew out of Silicon Valley elites. That is, I believe that to be true before Musk bought Twitter. Now that there's more awareness around his shitty politics, I think the upcoming years will see Tesla ownership move further towards right wingers.

Agree with everything you are saying. I think another big factor you are missing is the urban/suburban/rural split. I would wager there are significantly more Teslas per capita in and around cities, which tend to skew more left than their surroundings in both blue and red states.

All the right-leaning people I know don't like EV's and don't own them. Most, can't afford them. Most of the Tesla owners I've noticed in my country are Chinese. You've got plenty of Tesla ownership in Europe and China where sales dominate. Far from MAGA battlegrounds.

You're not entirely wrong, they get stereotyped as being rural poorer types but they tend to be closer to the people mentioned above, though perhaps not the exact demographic.

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