We seem to like to draw a line between crimes where the damages caused are visible from those where the damages caused are less visible, but its undoubtable that the crimes of the wealthy, so called white collar crimes, cause just as real material pain and suffering and societal damage.
If anything, the consequences of a crime should be scaled by your wealth and privileged in a society, because you really have no excuse for not following the law. Earn above a million dollars a year? Well a parking ticket costs you 10s of thousands of dollars? Earn above a billion a year and park outside the lines? Gallows.
Earn above a billion a year and park outside the lines? Gallows.
Making these people members of the working class is a fate worse than death.
I think we should just do that.
If proven beyond a doubt, I agree. But the communist leadership has been fairly lax on enforcement ... until now that is. One has to wonder why all of a sudden they've decided to do something?
I feel like this is an important thing.
Top global firms, such as Ernst & Young and KPMG, did not flag concerns about the bank in their audits, public documents show.
The board, CEOs and senior executives of these leeches need to be standing in line holding their wicker baskets.
The state shouldn't be in the business of killing people.
While true, billionaires shouldn't be in the business of existing.
$12 billion dollars is the equivalent of the 1.3 million years of work in vietnam. that's the livelihoods of more than 34000 people, stolen to profit one person.
Killing them won't change that.
seizing their assets will
The Vietnamese government does things like this on a cyclical basis. Every rich person here and everyone in government is corrupt as fuck. The president resigned a few hours ago over corruption. The president before him resigned just over a year ago over corruption. They're all stealing money. New government comes in and puts the old government in jail for corruption. A newer government comes in and puts that government in jail for corruption. Death sentences for people in top positions and bankers and whoever else. But they're all corrupt. Everyone above middle class here is corrupt.
Completely agree. Except for billionaires. Kill them all and do something useful for society with their money.
Man people on this site are so bloodthirsty. Why not just seize their assets and liquidate them?
I honestly think there is comfort in the idea that it will literally never happen so it's easier for them to throw around "guillotine" in place of "I'm mad and I hate these people."
They'll still argue that they mean it but they will literally never do it.
Never.
Again for those in the back, you people will never break out the guillotines, it's all talk.
The damage billionaires can do by leveraging their money is so immense it could financially ruin many people's lives. How many end up homeless or kill themselves out of despair? Their one life isn't enough to balance the scales but it'll send a very clear message to white collar criminals once one is executed: the damage you do is tantamount to first degree murder and will be punished as such.
Why not just seize their assets and liquidate them?
YES, YES! Seize their assets and liquidate the billionaires!
Not for fraud, no.
It's okay to execute child rapists, though.
Not even then. There are countless examples of corrupt prosecutors pushing through convictions because they want a win, even when it was clear the accused was innocent.
Without an absolutely perfect system of justice, I'm not willing to trust the state with executions in any circumstances.
There are countless examples of corrupt prosecutors pushing through convictions because they want a win, even when it was clear the accused was innocent.
I don't get it. It just links to the Wiki article about Satanic panic.
Did you read it?
I read a bit of the introduction, didn't get far enough
summarize the satanic panic in one sentence
“Innocent people found guilty of child sexual abuse because of an unfounded grand uproa—”
OH WAIT HOW DARE YOU?!
People panicked over Satanism.
Trying sssssooooo hard
I thought I was doing the opposite and that was the issue
Were you born yesterday...?
No. That's why I seek sources rather than believe everything I read on forums.
You should try it sometime, lol.
You don’t believe there’s ever been a wrongly convicted person ever?
No. Why would you think that?
I'm curious where he's getting his information from, though. He seemed so confident about it until I pressed him on sources.
That usually means he's talking out of his ass.
That usually means he's talking out of his ass.
No. That would be you instead.
Florida is trying to pass a law like this while also trying to pass a law that brands trans people as sex offenders
If you give the state a reason they’re allowed to kill people they’ll find a reason to argue that the people they don’t like fit that reason
Yeah at a certain point (late 30s in my case) you start to doubt all these people, who knew the authorities were mad at them, had had warrants executed previously, had child porn on their computer. It's like the "sprinkle crack on him" for politics
Finally, some good news!
That's a lot of dong.
Over 9000 dong, 4% of their GDP.
You really shouldn't call their P gross.
I'm just talking about how this amounts to over 4.20% of their GDP, man.
I'm not. Imprison her for life, but the death penalty is never acceptable as long as there's even the slightest chance of a false conviction. As long as "the system" can get it wrong, it should not be allowed to carry out irreversible punishments.
I get what you're saying and I can't say I disagree, but conversely:
Eat the rich
As they say, there are no moral ethical billionaires. In order to enrich themselves so much over their peers, they have necessarily trampled over them.
I do agree that giving a government the official power to just execute whoever they want (it would be trivial to manufacture a case like this in Vietnam) is a very bad precedent to set.
But, I mean, Vietnam is an authoritarian government, so this shouldn't surprise anyone.
communist country executes bourgeois, capitalists horrified
Innocent people dying of old age in prison is also irreversible and way fucking crueler.
You're not wrong, but at least there's a chance that they'll be released, and with therapy they might even have a normal life again some day. If you kill someone, they're dead. Nothing you can do about it beyond maybe putting an "Oops, our bad, sorry about that" plaque on their headstone.
I will also say that prisons should not be cruel. The role of prisons should be rehabilitation, protection of society from those who can't be rehabilitated, and lastly (and for once actually least importantly) punishment.
The rehabilitation line is a lie people tell themselves to feel better about being ok with extreme cruelty
there are other countries who have actually worked successfully at rehabilitation rather than the US-based system of 'revenge as justice'.
lumping everyone in line with the revenge types is an ignorant, immature stance.
Nah. Figures lie and liars figure. These other countries are generally homogenous with very very low poverty
i mean... abolish prisons too? Yes... I think yess :)
Yes but why just when the fate of billionaires is on the line?
I just support prison abolition in general, especially here in the US where I am. The shear number of poor, poc, indigenous, and mentally ill people who get funneled into the prison system here is a travesty and just pointless cruelty. TBH i dont give a fuck about one billionaire as long as the money is taken back and she loses all her power. Though I also do not support the death penalty so this headline doesn't make me feel super comfortable.
We're not talking about billionaires, it just happened to spark the conversation
Very rare Vietnamese W
WDYM? Common Vietnamese W
They're not exactly known for human rights support.
On the other hand, they actually stopped a genocide in living memory, which is more than you can say for most nations.
The whole country is corrupt, it's just so open and brazen. No one would be left alive if they did this to anyone guilty.
Seriously. Traveling to Vietnam was eye-opening. We did nothing good to that country and then they did nothing to help themselves afterwards, probably because of all the good ol' American Corruption that came after we firebombed it back to the stone age.
Wtf are you on about? I've been to Vietnam several times and the progress they have achieved in such a short period of time is incredible. They have built megacities on the ground where the yanks firebombed. Have you been to Da Nang? Walked around HCMC? Spoken to the people? They are evidently working against the corruption, as we can see in this article, whereas where I live everyone knows the govt sends cash to their buddies and no one can do anything about it? (The UK)
They are evidently working against the corruption
Lol no they aren't, they are all making bank by fucking those below them over. I've lived there for years, it's endemic and sickening; people are left stranded to die because they divert money and aid to their own pockets rather than to the people. Corruption is head to toe in government agencies and banks.
Sounds like they have made a lot of progress despite being a corrupt shithole.
Frankly man I find this very insulting and pretty racist. You don't have a good word to say about them eh?
Is it racist to call a latrine a shithole? What if the entire country was a poorly managed, poorly constructed, poorly infrastructured, poorly supported, and poorly developed piece of land going to be called? I call it a shithole. Harsh? Sure. Racist? No.
Pretty rich coming from the guy coming from the fukken US of A, of all places.
We can't do anything about where we were born. It doesn't mean the USA isn't a clusterfuck of epic proportions, nor the UK (where I'm from). All three are corrupt and a mess.
I'm not blaming you or the person I responded to. But maybe they should take a look at their own backyard before calling any place a corrupt shithole
Which nations would you not call shitholes?
Ones with working plumbing and power
Yeah, corruption there is rampant. Very capitalist and authoritarian also
Giving the state the power to kill a certain class of people is a great way to get the state to reclassify anyone inconvenient as a member of that class so they can be murdered legally. With that being said, I'm unlikely to get Vietnam to eliminate the death penalty entirely or be mistaken for a corrupt billionaire so maybe this will remind the other billionaires that they're made of soft, fragile meat just like the rest of us.
According to the article, she siphoned off a lot of dong.
We seem to like to draw a line between crimes where the damages caused are visible from those where the damages caused are less visible, but its undoubtable that the crimes of the wealthy, so called white collar crimes, cause just as real material pain and suffering and societal damage.
If anything, the consequences of a crime should be scaled by your wealth and privileged in a society, because you really have no excuse for not following the law. Earn above a million dollars a year? Well a parking ticket costs you 10s of thousands of dollars? Earn above a billion a year and park outside the lines? Gallows.
Making these people members of the working class is a fate worse than death.
I think we should just do that.
If proven beyond a doubt, I agree. But the communist leadership has been fairly lax on enforcement ... until now that is. One has to wonder why all of a sudden they've decided to do something?
I feel like this is an important thing.
The board, CEOs and senior executives of these leeches need to be standing in line holding their wicker baskets.
The state shouldn't be in the business of killing people.
While true, billionaires shouldn't be in the business of existing.
$12 billion dollars is the equivalent of the 1.3 million years of work in vietnam. that's the livelihoods of more than 34000 people, stolen to profit one person.
Killing them won't change that.
seizing their assets will
The Vietnamese government does things like this on a cyclical basis. Every rich person here and everyone in government is corrupt as fuck. The president resigned a few hours ago over corruption. The president before him resigned just over a year ago over corruption. They're all stealing money. New government comes in and puts the old government in jail for corruption. A newer government comes in and puts that government in jail for corruption. Death sentences for people in top positions and bankers and whoever else. But they're all corrupt. Everyone above middle class here is corrupt.
Completely agree. Except for billionaires. Kill them all and do something useful for society with their money.
Man people on this site are so bloodthirsty. Why not just seize their assets and liquidate them?
I honestly think there is comfort in the idea that it will literally never happen so it's easier for them to throw around "guillotine" in place of "I'm mad and I hate these people."
They'll still argue that they mean it but they will literally never do it.
Never.
Again for those in the back, you people will never break out the guillotines, it's all talk.
The damage billionaires can do by leveraging their money is so immense it could financially ruin many people's lives. How many end up homeless or kill themselves out of despair? Their one life isn't enough to balance the scales but it'll send a very clear message to white collar criminals once one is executed: the damage you do is tantamount to first degree murder and will be punished as such.
YES, YES! Seize their assets and liquidate the billionaires!
Not for fraud, no.
It's okay to execute child rapists, though.
Not even then. There are countless examples of corrupt prosecutors pushing through convictions because they want a win, even when it was clear the accused was innocent.
Without an absolutely perfect system of justice, I'm not willing to trust the state with executions in any circumstances.
Can you share any?
here's roughly 300
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exonerated_death_row_inmates
We're talking specifically about child rapists, though.
This should do, then
I don't get it. It just links to the Wiki article about Satanic panic.
Did you read it?
I read a bit of the introduction, didn't get far enough
summarize the satanic panic in one sentence
“Innocent people found guilty of child sexual abuse because of an unfounded grand uproa—”
OH WAIT HOW DARE YOU?!
People panicked over Satanism.
Trying sssssooooo hard
I thought I was doing the opposite and that was the issue
Were you born yesterday...?
No. That's why I seek sources rather than believe everything I read on forums.
You should try it sometime, lol.
You don’t believe there’s ever been a wrongly convicted person ever?
No. Why would you think that?
I'm curious where he's getting his information from, though. He seemed so confident about it until I pressed him on sources.
That usually means he's talking out of his ass.
No. That would be you instead.
Florida is trying to pass a law like this while also trying to pass a law that brands trans people as sex offenders
If you give the state a reason they’re allowed to kill people they’ll find a reason to argue that the people they don’t like fit that reason
Yeah at a certain point (late 30s in my case) you start to doubt all these people, who knew the authorities were mad at them, had had warrants executed previously, had child porn on their computer. It's like the "sprinkle crack on him" for politics
Finally, some good news!
That's a lot of dong.
Over 9000 dong, 4% of their GDP.
You really shouldn't call their P gross.
I'm just talking about how this amounts to over 4.20% of their GDP, man.
The guillotine you say?
I'm ok with this.
I'm not. Imprison her for life, but the death penalty is never acceptable as long as there's even the slightest chance of a false conviction. As long as "the system" can get it wrong, it should not be allowed to carry out irreversible punishments.
I get what you're saying and I can't say I disagree, but conversely:
Eat the rich
As they say, there are no
moralethical billionaires. In order to enrich themselves so much over their peers, they have necessarily trampled over them.I do agree that giving a government the official power to just execute whoever they want (it would be trivial to manufacture a case like this in Vietnam) is a very bad precedent to set.
But, I mean, Vietnam is an authoritarian government, so this shouldn't surprise anyone.
communist country executes bourgeois, capitalists horrified
Innocent people dying of old age in prison is also irreversible and way fucking crueler.
You're not wrong, but at least there's a chance that they'll be released, and with therapy they might even have a normal life again some day. If you kill someone, they're dead. Nothing you can do about it beyond maybe putting an "Oops, our bad, sorry about that" plaque on their headstone.
I will also say that prisons should not be cruel. The role of prisons should be rehabilitation, protection of society from those who can't be rehabilitated, and lastly (and for once actually least importantly) punishment.
The rehabilitation line is a lie people tell themselves to feel better about being ok with extreme cruelty
there are other countries who have actually worked successfully at rehabilitation rather than the US-based system of 'revenge as justice'.
lumping everyone in line with the revenge types is an ignorant, immature stance.
Nah. Figures lie and liars figure. These other countries are generally homogenous with very very low poverty
i mean... abolish prisons too? Yes... I think yess :)
Yes but why just when the fate of billionaires is on the line?
I just support prison abolition in general, especially here in the US where I am. The shear number of poor, poc, indigenous, and mentally ill people who get funneled into the prison system here is a travesty and just pointless cruelty. TBH i dont give a fuck about one billionaire as long as the money is taken back and she loses all her power. Though I also do not support the death penalty so this headline doesn't make me feel super comfortable.
We're not talking about billionaires, it just happened to spark the conversation
Very rare Vietnamese W
WDYM? Common Vietnamese W
They're not exactly known for human rights support.
On the other hand, they actually stopped a genocide in living memory, which is more than you can say for most nations.
The whole country is corrupt, it's just so open and brazen. No one would be left alive if they did this to anyone guilty.
Seriously. Traveling to Vietnam was eye-opening. We did nothing good to that country and then they did nothing to help themselves afterwards, probably because of all the good ol' American Corruption that came after we firebombed it back to the stone age.
Wtf are you on about? I've been to Vietnam several times and the progress they have achieved in such a short period of time is incredible. They have built megacities on the ground where the yanks firebombed. Have you been to Da Nang? Walked around HCMC? Spoken to the people? They are evidently working against the corruption, as we can see in this article, whereas where I live everyone knows the govt sends cash to their buddies and no one can do anything about it? (The UK)
Lol no they aren't, they are all making bank by fucking those below them over. I've lived there for years, it's endemic and sickening; people are left stranded to die because they divert money and aid to their own pockets rather than to the people. Corruption is head to toe in government agencies and banks.
Sounds like they have made a lot of progress despite being a corrupt shithole.
Frankly man I find this very insulting and pretty racist. You don't have a good word to say about them eh?
Is it racist to call a latrine a shithole? What if the entire country was a poorly managed, poorly constructed, poorly infrastructured, poorly supported, and poorly developed piece of land going to be called? I call it a shithole. Harsh? Sure. Racist? No.
Pretty rich coming from the guy coming from the fukken US of A, of all places.
We can't do anything about where we were born. It doesn't mean the USA isn't a clusterfuck of epic proportions, nor the UK (where I'm from). All three are corrupt and a mess.
I'm not blaming you or the person I responded to. But maybe they should take a look at their own backyard before calling any place a corrupt shithole
Which nations would you not call shitholes?
Ones with working plumbing and power
Yeah, corruption there is rampant. Very capitalist and authoritarian also
Giving the state the power to kill a certain class of people is a great way to get the state to reclassify anyone inconvenient as a member of that class so they can be murdered legally. With that being said, I'm unlikely to get Vietnam to eliminate the death penalty entirely or be mistaken for a corrupt billionaire so maybe this will remind the other billionaires that they're made of soft, fragile meat just like the rest of us.
According to the article, she siphoned off a lot of dong.