The fact that they won't allow users to uninstall it should suggest some things about their motives.
It's just too easy to dunk on MS these days. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.
It's like shooting fish in a barrel.
Twice. At point blank range. To the back of the head. With an elephant gun.
Or a mortar. Point blank.
Have you ever tried to shoot fish in a barrel?
Well, since the fish are just laying there, at the bottom, motionless and dead it's pretty easy.
Who said they were dead?
Who said they were alive? The whole premises of the saying is that things are easy.
it's not for the end user, it's for the end user's boss who wants to monitor all their worker drones' productivity
It's not for the end user's boss, it's there to collect data for the future Microsoft user behaviour analysis tools that will be sold to the end user's boss's boss.
it can be for 2 things
but it's definitely not for the benefit of anyone who's forced to use it
Why measure performance metrics in terms of output when we can just 1984 everyone’s workstation.
Because that would, at one point, imply a full process audit, which will inevitably lead to some shit-stirring, especially in terms of management's contribution to said output, making it much easier for the worker to see just how underpaid they are and probably hurting some manager's feewings. We can't have the truth! Better to Love Big Brother and blame the Drone!
They have better tools for that.
office boss using tools LOL good one
Hey, Steve and Drake are some of the bosses favorite tools!
That’s okay, I hit the Windows uninstall button back in April. It’s been quite nice ever since!
...but was it the "Windows Uninstall" button...or the "format /dev/sda1 as ext4" button?
Nah I used the btrfs button
Mmm, butter... :)
Love me some btrfs, the snapshots have saved me a few times already...
The best and set up fully automatically.
User choice is an accident. Got it.
Linux is the future.
not until Linux bros find a way to appeal to newcomers. being curious about Linux is the worst user experience anyone will ever have about any tech related issue.
You aren't trying to suggest that experienced Linux users are a bunch of arrogant fart-sniffing a-holes who expressly enjoy gate-keeping inexperienced users by being as condescending and unhelpful as possible?
I tried talking about how absolutely horrendous their behaviour was recently, pointing out how completely unhinged and self-defeating their behaviour is, and someone actually literally said that this was a good thing because Linux is hard work and they should keep away people that aren't experts.
And first of all, if that's right it's an admission that linux will never succeed, and secondly I agree that's the effect but I think that's bad actually.
I honestly think there must be at least some amount of psyops in the community poisoning the discourse for everyone.
Microsoft running psyops to keep the Linux community as toxic as possible
Omg it really feels like that sometimes.
The youtubers who paint Linux as extremely unstable/not appropriate for gaming almost come across as sponsored by Microsoft. (Not to mention the overemphasis of the ubiquity of adobe suite users i.e. confirmation bias)
Mostly first Linux users will download Ubuntu, latest release, and I've not used a more bug ridden OS in my life. Everyday there was a new bug that made me have to hard reset my computer (mind you this is 24.0.4 noble). Display was grey after login, didn't want to login, laptop screen doesn't wake up, Wayland crashes and doesn't start backup. And that is the bugs that forced me to hard reset my laptop, then we have a whole slew of other bugs.
I mean some new getting recommend Ubuntu will have a horrible experience, and most of them do
It almost seems like Linux Mint is the default recommend now which is better. I had a kind of buggy time with Pop OS, due to the amount of unsupported extensions you need to run to have some customisability.
OpenSUSE TW with KDE has been the best experience for me in the end.
Unironically I think it must happen to some extent, and that doesn't mean every toxic person is an op. It wouldn't take a lot of manpower to create a toxic environment. Just hassle the devs with annoying questions, suggestions and bad "contributions" until they're sick of everyone's shit and start to become toxic themselves. If they're dealing with all the noise of bad actors, they get overzealous in moderating it, and it's hard to tell the difference between a troll who's trying to waste your time, and an honest newbie who doesn't know what questions to ask or what information to share, so they all get blasted to some extent, and the devs lose any interest in catering to the newbies.
Edit: actually I remember asking a question on stackoverflow about PuTTY one time, it was answered and I moved on with my life. Then five fucking years later some dickhead shows up in the comments and says, "aw... putty... windows..." So I'm like, "Listen, I don't care if you think I'm sad for using windows, I don't use linux because it's too much work" Then they start lecturing me about how linux is for experts and if I don't know what I'm doing it's not for me, and I'm like "Ok? Then leave me alone. This question is five years old, why are you here? Just to hassle a rando because they use windows?" Then a mod bumped the comments into a private chat and off the question page, then this person starts offering to "help" me learn Linux. I told them if I wanted help they'd be the last person I would ask, then blocked them, but the bad taste of that interaction has stayed with me for a long time and I think about it a lot whenever I want to put effort into switching myself over. Was that an op? Being a troll is easy, and it would've been maybe 20 minutes of work for whoever was doing it. Like, maybe that was just some kid who thought they were helping further the linux cause by going around windows-shaming people, but maybe not.
Need to pair it with a stable, easy to use distribution and some good marketing and hardware too. At the end of the day, most people don’t want to spend their weekends scouring forums to understand how to fix some OS issue with a series of terminal commands.
I agree. However there are some gems. Got one good piece of advice from https://lemmy.world/u/BombOmOm and now I'm on the Linux train (at least on one laptop anyway).
Please don't lump us all together.
And has been for the last 30 years
always, it seems
Is called “Windows” because they are always looking in at you.
I have been on Linux since they announced recall, and their fucking one drive kept secretly uploading my desktop files! (Kept seeing sync icons, even with all that disabled).
Since then I now have my wife, uncle, dad, friends, etc all running Linux now.
How? I have been trying to switch people to linux for over a year and failing
I gave them laptops, Linux mint pre-installed.
I used to buy auction lots of broken laptops, so I got them for like $10 each. Threw in an SSD. It works as fast as a new machine for browsing the new and watching YouTube. I also pre-installed some common programs to get them started.
Wait wait wait... where do you get these? That sounds amazing lol.
My reason was being that I couldn't get HDR to work properly in KDE 6 plasma. Also 90% of the features from my graphics card that I use on a daily basis are missing in Linux.
If I didn't have cutting-edge hardware paired with an Nvidia GPU, I would have already switched by now. I build a new PC once every decade, so I'll check back in about 3-5 years once my hardware has aged enough that people are writing proper drivers for it that goes beyond the bare-bones featureset.
Just give up on any productivity software. And any specialty software unrelated to programming. And games.
Source: programmer that uses Linux daily.
Gaming on Linux is pretty good nowadays. I've only run into one or two games I couldn't get working. The vast majority of games work with Proton right out of the box
Still doesnt work, even when the person is only using a web browser
But... But they got the good press of "at least you can uninstall". I hope whoever said that starts a bigger shit storm now.
Microsoft says it remains on track to preview Recall with Windows Insiders on Copilot Plus PCs in October, after the company has had more time to make major changes to Recall.
Just in time for Halloween. That'll be sure to give people a good scare.
OF course they had to do it in reverse: it's not a feature, it's a bug.
Altogether now children "It's a bug until...it's a feature!"
/me Laughs in Windows 10.
I'm still on windows ten. Currently trying to switch to Linux. What are your plans when end of life /support comes to Windows ten?
What are your plans when end of life /support comes to Windows ten?
Switch to Linux and run virtual machines when I need to use Windows.
Right now I don't quite have the drive to do it, but an end to support for Windows 10 would push me over the edge. I just can't stand Windows 11, not even because of all the bullshit but just the way it mandates the UI structure - last time I tried it my dealbreaker was that you can't just have it always display all taskbar icons, you have to manually force each one to show. If a new icon comes up, it will be hidden.
this one drove me nuts.
let me use the damn computer the way i want to. its mine, i paid for it. let me use small taskbar icons. let me remove the ads.
Your computer, their software.
Microsoft are unlike Facebook and Google in that they make you pay for the software they use to steal your data.
If you don't have prior experience with Linux, I'd advise making the switch before the end of win10 support. I made the switch a couple of months ago with no experience in Linux, and while it wasn't a horrible experience it also wasn't the easiest thing to do. Having the safety net of a Windows partition was really useful during the month or two as I got used to Linux, which I wouldn't have wanted to do with Windows not in support anymore.
I went all in so I wouldn't change my mind but the first year I was pretty nuch entirely problem free. I have had issues since, however. But compared to the work I put in on Windows unfucking things I think its been trivial.
My experience is limited, but not no experience. In any case, it's not like Windows 10 will be immediately unusable when support ends.
That doesn't even make sense... that's actively antagonistic UI design right there. Goddamn.
Im in the same boat, I'll either move to some cracked version of windows without the recall bs, or more likely some linux distro.
There's no reason to trust any homebrew or cracked Windows ISO. Just go with Win 10 LTSC. All the bullshit is removed and it has support until 2027. MAS flawlessly activates it. Linux is indeed the better option, and I'll be heading that way soon enough.
I might try to setup Win 10 LTSC which has support until 2027, but I mostly use Mint these days. Would still like to avoid Win 11, even if I only use it for gaming.
/me Laughs in Linux
I'm sure I'll be there with you soon enough.
It is so strange to see people flexing $PREVIOUS_WINDOWS when $PREVIOUS_WINDOWS itself brought in egregious anti-features that are now normalized and accepted by average users as "not malware".
Yeah, but most if not all of those antifeatures can be removed very easily.
I find it much easier to start with a minimal canvas, and then to add only the things I want or need. Than to try to tear down aggressive features until something sane begins to appear from beneath.
I got too many games and programs installed in my current copy of Win10 to ditch it now, sadly. Too afraid of outright losing shit, or savegames, etc.
Besides O&O (or whatever it's called) installs via Chocolatey, and you just uncheck the stuff you don't want. Windows is stripped to bones in like 10 minutes.
You might be surprised at how many games just work on Linux. Have been running it on my laptop for a bit now and it hasn't presented an issue. Check out https://www.protondb.com/.
Had a friend recently ask me to benchmark my PC as he was buying one and wanted a baseline number to compare against. Asked him what he wanted me to benchmark, (it was Mass Effect). The process was: install on steam, hit play on steam. The only annoying part was I had to wait for the new game cinematic to finish before I could get a FPS reading.
O&O Shutup10 is pretty nice though.
How this is good for Mircosoft though? It makes sense if they want to do it opt-out, but the only reason why I can think of they don't want it to get removed at all to sell data
I am wildly speculating it is to collect all the workflows from remote workers in the hopes they can sell the data to other companies for future automation. Just another way of squeezing money out of users who already paid for the software just to have more information stolen from them.
I don't get it. People riot over less. Why is there not more ire, anger, and vitriol online?
People riot
It depends on the country, I'd say.
over less
What is "less" for you?
I rioted once when I stubbed my toe. It was on a new Ikea bed which was a pain to put together, and the fact that it continued to cause me pain just set me over the edge. I went right down to the harbour and threw everything into the water, because let Posidon deal with it, only the bed got me back because I picked the wrong crates, I chucked my tea into the water instead. I was sad. It was 1772
Ngl you had me until the 1772 bit
It's very carefully being shoved in by touching the waters and seeing how far they can go. The first few times there is outrage but after a while people get tired, miss that it is happening or simply don't understand what it's about. The changes aren't that big but as a whole work towards something nobody wants. Same as with a lot of laws and / or social changes.
A lot of people are really good at justifying the problems by completely missing the point as well. i.e people going “Oh you can just disable/hide/remove xyz” when the issue is that xyz shouldn’t be there at all or be opt in, rather than opt out.
Then there’s the people that listen to these justifications without a second thought or even parroting them, giving them extra legitimacy to other people that come across these takes.
Why is there not more ire, anger, and vitriol online?
As a more general answer, the web has been neutered with overmoderation and safe space mentality. Ire, anger, vitriol, which are all normal and valid emotions, systematically get hidden away.
Bringing it back to $NEWS_TOPIC, why are people using a software whose changes can bring them to ire, anger and vitriol? It sounds similar to growing angry with an abusive lover. "Why does he hit me?".
God damn i hate what the Internet has become, i can barely even comment on YouTube
Do they? Sure, people riot all the time with very good reason. But usually it’s like, they don’t have access to food, or they’re being forced to work longer because the retirement age is increased, or maybe because they’re being evicted from their homes. Certainly these issues are not in any way comparable to a software feature that some people dislike.
Microsoft is just a bug.
Microsoft confirms it's just a bug.
The jokes are becoming reality, I swear...
The fact that they won't allow users to uninstall it should suggest some things about their motives.
It's just too easy to dunk on MS these days. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.
Twice. At point blank range. To the back of the head. With an elephant gun.
Or a mortar. Point blank.
Have you ever tried to shoot fish in a barrel?
Well, since the fish are just laying there, at the bottom, motionless and dead it's pretty easy.
Who said they were dead?
Who said they were alive? The whole premises of the saying is that things are easy.
it's not for the end user, it's for the end user's boss who wants to monitor all their worker drones' productivity
It's not for the end user's boss, it's there to collect data for the future Microsoft user behaviour analysis tools that will be sold to the end user's boss's boss.
it can be for 2 things
but it's definitely not for the benefit of anyone who's forced to use it
Why measure performance metrics in terms of output when we can just 1984 everyone’s workstation.
Because that would, at one point, imply a full process audit, which will inevitably lead to some shit-stirring, especially in terms of management's contribution to said output, making it much easier for the worker to see just how underpaid they are and probably hurting some manager's feewings. We can't have the truth! Better to Love Big Brother and blame the Drone!
They have better tools for that.
office boss using tools LOL good one
Hey, Steve and Drake are some of the bosses favorite tools!
That’s okay, I hit the Windows uninstall button back in April. It’s been quite nice ever since!
...but was it the "Windows Uninstall" button...or the "format /dev/sda1 as ext4" button?
Nah I used the btrfs button
Mmm, butter... :)
Love me some btrfs, the snapshots have saved me a few times already...
The best and set up fully automatically.
User choice is an accident. Got it.
Linux is the future.
not until Linux bros find a way to appeal to newcomers. being curious about Linux is the worst user experience anyone will ever have about any tech related issue.
You aren't trying to suggest that experienced Linux users are a bunch of arrogant fart-sniffing a-holes who expressly enjoy gate-keeping inexperienced users by being as condescending and unhelpful as possible?
I tried talking about how absolutely horrendous their behaviour was recently, pointing out how completely unhinged and self-defeating their behaviour is, and someone actually literally said that this was a good thing because Linux is hard work and they should keep away people that aren't experts.
And first of all, if that's right it's an admission that linux will never succeed, and secondly I agree that's the effect but I think that's bad actually.
I honestly think there must be at least some amount of psyops in the community poisoning the discourse for everyone.
Microsoft running psyops to keep the Linux community as toxic as possible
Omg it really feels like that sometimes.
The youtubers who paint Linux as extremely unstable/not appropriate for gaming almost come across as sponsored by Microsoft. (Not to mention the overemphasis of the ubiquity of adobe suite users i.e. confirmation bias)
Mostly first Linux users will download Ubuntu, latest release, and I've not used a more bug ridden OS in my life. Everyday there was a new bug that made me have to hard reset my computer (mind you this is 24.0.4 noble). Display was grey after login, didn't want to login, laptop screen doesn't wake up, Wayland crashes and doesn't start backup. And that is the bugs that forced me to hard reset my laptop, then we have a whole slew of other bugs.
I mean some new getting recommend Ubuntu will have a horrible experience, and most of them do
It almost seems like Linux Mint is the default recommend now which is better. I had a kind of buggy time with Pop OS, due to the amount of unsupported extensions you need to run to have some customisability.
OpenSUSE TW with KDE has been the best experience for me in the end.
Unironically I think it must happen to some extent, and that doesn't mean every toxic person is an op. It wouldn't take a lot of manpower to create a toxic environment. Just hassle the devs with annoying questions, suggestions and bad "contributions" until they're sick of everyone's shit and start to become toxic themselves. If they're dealing with all the noise of bad actors, they get overzealous in moderating it, and it's hard to tell the difference between a troll who's trying to waste your time, and an honest newbie who doesn't know what questions to ask or what information to share, so they all get blasted to some extent, and the devs lose any interest in catering to the newbies.
Edit: actually I remember asking a question on stackoverflow about PuTTY one time, it was answered and I moved on with my life. Then five fucking years later some dickhead shows up in the comments and says, "aw... putty... windows..." So I'm like, "Listen, I don't care if you think I'm sad for using windows, I don't use linux because it's too much work" Then they start lecturing me about how linux is for experts and if I don't know what I'm doing it's not for me, and I'm like "Ok? Then leave me alone. This question is five years old, why are you here? Just to hassle a rando because they use windows?" Then a mod bumped the comments into a private chat and off the question page, then this person starts offering to "help" me learn Linux. I told them if I wanted help they'd be the last person I would ask, then blocked them, but the bad taste of that interaction has stayed with me for a long time and I think about it a lot whenever I want to put effort into switching myself over. Was that an op? Being a troll is easy, and it would've been maybe 20 minutes of work for whoever was doing it. Like, maybe that was just some kid who thought they were helping further the linux cause by going around windows-shaming people, but maybe not.
Need to pair it with a stable, easy to use distribution and some good marketing and hardware too. At the end of the day, most people don’t want to spend their weekends scouring forums to understand how to fix some OS issue with a series of terminal commands.
I agree. However there are some gems. Got one good piece of advice from https://lemmy.world/u/BombOmOm and now I'm on the Linux train (at least on one laptop anyway).
Please don't lump us all together.
And has been for the last 30 years
always, it seems
Is called “Windows” because they are always looking in at you. I have been on Linux since they announced recall, and their fucking one drive kept secretly uploading my desktop files! (Kept seeing sync icons, even with all that disabled). Since then I now have my wife, uncle, dad, friends, etc all running Linux now.
How? I have been trying to switch people to linux for over a year and failing
I gave them laptops, Linux mint pre-installed. I used to buy auction lots of broken laptops, so I got them for like $10 each. Threw in an SSD. It works as fast as a new machine for browsing the new and watching YouTube. I also pre-installed some common programs to get them started.
Wait wait wait... where do you get these? That sounds amazing lol.
My reason was being that I couldn't get HDR to work properly in KDE 6 plasma. Also 90% of the features from my graphics card that I use on a daily basis are missing in Linux.
If I didn't have cutting-edge hardware paired with an Nvidia GPU, I would have already switched by now. I build a new PC once every decade, so I'll check back in about 3-5 years once my hardware has aged enough that people are writing proper drivers for it that goes beyond the bare-bones featureset.
Just give up on any productivity software. And any specialty software unrelated to programming. And games.
Source: programmer that uses Linux daily.
Gaming on Linux is pretty good nowadays. I've only run into one or two games I couldn't get working. The vast majority of games work with Proton right out of the box
Still doesnt work, even when the person is only using a web browser
But... But they got the good press of "at least you can uninstall". I hope whoever said that starts a bigger shit storm now.
Just in time for Halloween. That'll be sure to give people a good scare.
OF course they had to do it in reverse: it's not a feature, it's a bug.
Altogether now children "It's a bug until...it's a feature!"
/me Laughs in Windows 10.
I'm still on windows ten. Currently trying to switch to Linux. What are your plans when end of life /support comes to Windows ten?
Switch to Linux and run virtual machines when I need to use Windows.
Right now I don't quite have the drive to do it, but an end to support for Windows 10 would push me over the edge. I just can't stand Windows 11, not even because of all the bullshit but just the way it mandates the UI structure - last time I tried it my dealbreaker was that you can't just have it always display all taskbar icons, you have to manually force each one to show. If a new icon comes up, it will be hidden.
this one drove me nuts.
let me use the damn computer the way i want to. its mine, i paid for it. let me use small taskbar icons. let me remove the ads.
Your computer, their software.
Microsoft are unlike Facebook and Google in that they make you pay for the software they use to steal your data.
If you don't have prior experience with Linux, I'd advise making the switch before the end of win10 support. I made the switch a couple of months ago with no experience in Linux, and while it wasn't a horrible experience it also wasn't the easiest thing to do. Having the safety net of a Windows partition was really useful during the month or two as I got used to Linux, which I wouldn't have wanted to do with Windows not in support anymore.
I went all in so I wouldn't change my mind but the first year I was pretty nuch entirely problem free. I have had issues since, however. But compared to the work I put in on Windows unfucking things I think its been trivial.
My experience is limited, but not no experience. In any case, it's not like Windows 10 will be immediately unusable when support ends.
That doesn't even make sense... that's actively antagonistic UI design right there. Goddamn.
Im in the same boat, I'll either move to some cracked version of windows without the recall bs, or more likely some linux distro.
There's no reason to trust any homebrew or cracked Windows ISO. Just go with Win 10 LTSC. All the bullshit is removed and it has support until 2027. MAS flawlessly activates it. Linux is indeed the better option, and I'll be heading that way soon enough.
I might try to setup Win 10 LTSC which has support until 2027, but I mostly use Mint these days. Would still like to avoid Win 11, even if I only use it for gaming.
/me Laughs in Linux
I'm sure I'll be there with you soon enough.
It is so strange to see people flexing $PREVIOUS_WINDOWS when $PREVIOUS_WINDOWS itself brought in egregious anti-features that are now normalized and accepted by average users as "not malware".
Yeah, but most if not all of those antifeatures can be removed very easily.
I find it much easier to start with a minimal canvas, and then to add only the things I want or need. Than to try to tear down aggressive features until something sane begins to appear from beneath.
I got too many games and programs installed in my current copy of Win10 to ditch it now, sadly. Too afraid of outright losing shit, or savegames, etc.
Besides O&O (or whatever it's called) installs via Chocolatey, and you just uncheck the stuff you don't want. Windows is stripped to bones in like 10 minutes.
You might be surprised at how many games just work on Linux. Have been running it on my laptop for a bit now and it hasn't presented an issue. Check out https://www.protondb.com/.
Had a friend recently ask me to benchmark my PC as he was buying one and wanted a baseline number to compare against. Asked him what he wanted me to benchmark, (it was Mass Effect). The process was: install on steam, hit play on steam. The only annoying part was I had to wait for the new game cinematic to finish before I could get a FPS reading.
O&O Shutup10 is pretty nice though.
How this is good for Mircosoft though? It makes sense if they want to do it opt-out, but the only reason why I can think of they don't want it to get removed at all to sell data
I am wildly speculating it is to collect all the workflows from remote workers in the hopes they can sell the data to other companies for future automation. Just another way of squeezing money out of users who already paid for the software just to have more information stolen from them.
I don't get it. People riot over less. Why is there not more ire, anger, and vitriol online?
It depends on the country, I'd say.
What is "less" for you?
I rioted once when I stubbed my toe. It was on a new Ikea bed which was a pain to put together, and the fact that it continued to cause me pain just set me over the edge. I went right down to the harbour and threw everything into the water, because let Posidon deal with it, only the bed got me back because I picked the wrong crates, I chucked my tea into the water instead. I was sad. It was 1772
Ngl you had me until the 1772 bit
It's very carefully being shoved in by touching the waters and seeing how far they can go. The first few times there is outrage but after a while people get tired, miss that it is happening or simply don't understand what it's about. The changes aren't that big but as a whole work towards something nobody wants. Same as with a lot of laws and / or social changes.
A lot of people are really good at justifying the problems by completely missing the point as well. i.e people going “Oh you can just disable/hide/remove xyz” when the issue is that xyz shouldn’t be there at all or be opt in, rather than opt out.
Then there’s the people that listen to these justifications without a second thought or even parroting them, giving them extra legitimacy to other people that come across these takes.
As a more general answer, the web has been neutered with overmoderation and safe space mentality. Ire, anger, vitriol, which are all normal and valid emotions, systematically get hidden away.
Bringing it back to $NEWS_TOPIC, why are people using a software whose changes can bring them to ire, anger and vitriol? It sounds similar to growing angry with an abusive lover. "Why does he hit me?".
God damn i hate what the Internet has become, i can barely even comment on YouTube
Do they? Sure, people riot all the time with very good reason. But usually it’s like, they don’t have access to food, or they’re being forced to work longer because the retirement age is increased, or maybe because they’re being evicted from their homes. Certainly these issues are not in any way comparable to a software feature that some people dislike.