Senate Republican says US needs to accept Ukraine will ‘cede some territory’ to Russia
Sen. JD Vance (R-Ohio) said Sunday that the United States needs to accept that Ukraine will likely need to “cede some territory” to Russia to end the fighting. Vance told CNN’s Jake Tapper on “State of the Union” that he is opposed to sending more aid to Ukraine because he does not believe the country will ever be able to overpower Russia. He questioned why sending billions in aid to Ukraine is going to help the country at this point in its war against Russia, considering previous aid has yet to end the war. “What’s in America’s best interest is to accept Ukraine is going to have to cede some territory to the Russians, and we need to bring this war to a close,” Vance said. “But when I think about the great human tragedy here, hundreds of thousands of Eastern Europeans innocent have been killed in this conflict. The thing that’s in our interest and in theirs is to stop the killing.”
"Look, Russia will stop fighting if Ukraine just gives up the two 'contested' provinces."
"Okay, Ukraine gave them up, but Russia now says it only wants these three more."
"Look, Russia is being very reasonable. They will stop all the fighting and even allow Ukraine to join NATO if they just get these five provinces."
"Ukraine is just a tiny country now. They might as well submit to Russian rule."
"Russia just wants this one tiny province in Poland. Is that really worth starting WW3 over?!!!"
"France needs to accept that American Colonies will 'cede some territory' to Great Britain" Nobody could ever overpower the British Navy.
"We just need to accept that the Sovjet Union will cede some territory to Nazi Germany, the Wehrmacht just can't be overpowered."
"We should just let Japan have Hawaii. What more could they do?"
"Taiwan belonged to them anyway. Let China (PRC) have it."
Whatever happened to the Roman Empire? Mesopotamia could use some aqueducts.
The problem is that if you reward Putin for his efforts, you only empower him and dictators like China and Iran. China will go after Taiwan, and Iran will go after Syria.
Because after all, they don't have to beat the US military, or even war exhaustion from the people. He just has to outlast the greed of the American Senators.
Which compared to the 800 billion we spend on the military, or the $300,000 you can bribe a senator. It would seem that Russia has chosen the more economic approach.
Not to mention that public opinion in Russia is changing too...we had the advantage long term. We have half of the world's resources not to say even more...
No we fucking don’t. If putin gets anything he wanted he’ll do it again
Putin has arguably already had a large chunk of what he wanted since 2014. There's been so much time to not only reinforce Crimea and Donbas militarily, but also to change the population makeup by moving in thousands of Russian families.
I hate Putin as much as the next rational human being, but even a pro-Ukraine perspective has to reconcile with the fact that some of these formerly Ukrainian lands are now populated by a large majority in favour of being part of Russia. Even if Ukraine could gain full military control over these areas, it wouldn't magically get rid of the separatists.
It brings up the difficult question of where to draw the line between ethnic cleansing and expelling foreign invaders. Personally I think expelling recently-settled Russians from occupied Ukraine would be a reasonable thing to do, but the longer the territory remains occupied, the harder is to justify.
The Eastern part of the country has been pro-Russia for a long time. I don't know if it's even a good idea to try to force them to stay part of Ukraine. Doesn't justify the invasion, of course.
The killing would stop if Russia simply withdrew. But the Republicans never mention that as an option. Funny that.
Article 5 is just a suggestion
“Bullies get what they want and there’s nothing we can do about it”
"We like bullies because we want to be like them"
how 'bout no
and we give them more weapons to stop this nonsense
Genius! Can't believe Vancy Pants didn't think of that! I guess hearing is difficult when your head is up Russias anus as far his is.
Look! A republican waving the flag of surrender. What a fucking coward. He's not from my state and I'm still embarrassed that he is in Congress.
Hey Vance... STFU you weak spined russian apologist...
Worthless republican traitor.
And by "some territory," he means "everything between Russia and Poland."
Plus a bit of Poland...
"Some Paczkis sound so good right now comrade, we have no choice but to invade so we may liberate them."
What a spineless traitor to humanity.
He’s a Republican. But I repeat you.
We accepted it in 2014, when Russia took Crimea, hoping that would satiate their dreams of the Soviet Empire and here we are nearly 10 years later. The Russian government does not act in good faith, and if we don't crush their capability to wage war we'll see them try to take the rest of Ukraine and beyond.
These guys may as well be the modern day equivalent of Neville Chamberlain.
The one sure way to end the fighting is to fund Ukraine's defense. When the right defunded Ukraine's defense, they didn't do it to promote peace, they did it to advance the interests of their allies (that is, Putin).
The reality of 'ending the fighting' is going to mean the violence will continue in the territory Russia controls, even after the 'hostilities' as such are ended. When Russia gains some territory, the russification of that territory involves punishing the people there for not having surrendered more quickly, liquidating institutions of local culture and replacing them with Russian ones, the separation of families, the internal displacement of locals on trips to the far east that many won't survive, the 'political reeducation' camps, etc.
When US politicians try to pass off enabling a certain genocide as an 'end to hostilities' or in anodyne terms like 'cede some territory', don't let them do it. They're not acquiescing to the inevitable, they're actively partnering in genocide.
United States needs to accept that Republicans work for Russia now.
Democrats know and are mad about it. Republicans know and are happy about it. 🤷♂️
Thanks Neville Chamberlain!
"Chaps, anyone with a name like Hitler can't be all bad. What do you say we give him another chance?"
Neville Chamberlain has been reappraised by historians, based on later released evidence, who argue he made that decision in part based on expert military advise and political considerations.
They knew that war was almost inevitable, but appeasement gave them time to build domestic political and public support, and prepare for a while longer. For example, this arguably allowed them to gain air supremacy:
So this guy's worse than Chamberlain. He wants to engage in appeasement, reward a dictator for agression, help a Chinese and Iranian ally, without any real strategic benefit to the US.
Good info! I realize that blaming Neville is an oversimplification. It's just funny to me that all the conservative 'historians' I know would be quick to throw Neville under the bus, but the current-day Republicans get a pass.
Interesting and it actually makes sense to delay the inevitable bombing, well, military wise
Nah, not an inch. Fucking Republicans.
Go live in Russia then you dumb fuck. People here should start throwing you out if windows.
Defenestration when?
Defenestration what?
Chicka chicka pull shading
When did the right go commie?
Never they just understand that putin is a capitalist dictator and that’s what they’ve always respected
They didn’t go commie… they’ve gone authoritarian….
At the extreme ends of the political spectrum, there is little difference…
Nah, horshoe theory conveniently forgets that there are two other corners on that map. There are extremists of all flavors.
What you speak of is ONLY authoritarians. There have been "left" authoritarians, but every action of an authlritarian is a step away from being actually left. You cannot promote freedom while taking choice away without being a massive hypocrite. Spoilers: China, the USSR, etc, etc... They were/are all MASSIVE hypocrites.
A massive movement to violently effect political reform is VERY difficult for normies to parse through. Authoritarians and saviors, the difference is in whos words you believe. There are many gullible people. Even well-intentioned and planned coups have basically all resulted in more or different authority, not less.
The political spectrum is a sphere not a grid
What if it's a hyperbolic paraboloid?
Shape isn't as important as realizing it is a spectrum with multiple facets, not an either/or situation. Even anarchists realize some authority has to exist, at least the ones older than 16.
Russia is not a communist state- if anything, its politics are fascist. The American right has been looking at post-soviet Russia as a model for how it wants to run the USA.
The traitor party, rePutincans, want to give russia some money, power, and oil? No shit?
Well, we’ll see what Moscow Mitch has to say about that! Oh wait.
Oh and fuck republiQans, fuck russia, and fuck the mushmouth corporate news who can’t find the wherewithal to pronounce an insurrectionist fraudster rapist as an insurrectionist fraudster rapist because WHY USE THE RIGHT WORDS when we can serve their republiQan owner/masters by pretending both sides bad? FUCK.
As an Ohioan, I apologize for my state unleashing this feckless sycophant on the national political discourse. Unfortunately, our Democratic challenger was less exciting than a bowl of tapioca.
We have a boring governor here in washington and it's awesome. I don't agree with everything but meh, it's little stuff and who cares. I'm sad he's retiring.
Putin says that the US needs to accept that it will cede some territory back to Mexico; the states of Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and southern California, should not cause any issues to the northern states as …..
I don't understand why the GOP is okay with strengthening the Kremlin, who identifies as our adversary, by allowing them to steal valuable economic land that has major strategic geopolitical ties. They were always supposed to be the strength and might party... And Russia is clearly not that mighty so why is that the ship they want to jump to?
Because they give zero fucks about what happens to anyone but themselves, and they're being manipulated with either bribes or kompromat. Or they just want to own the libs.
How much dirt does Putin have on Vance? Apparently a lot.
Let's give Russia Florida then, instead.
How about Ohio?
This but unironically.
I wasn't kidding. Give it to Russia before it falls into the ocean.
This is what happens when countries rely on the US for foreign aid. We are unreliable.
Other countries need to increase their own funding if we are dropping the ball. We are not the only nation in the world.
Absolutely true.
Just ask the Hungarians how trustworthy we are at helping Eastern Europe throw off the Russians.
Ah yes JD Vance aka Donald Trumps cock holster.
Up front, I broadly support almost any aid short of NBC weapons to Ukraine. Territorial exchange by invasion needs to be non-negotiable, and Ukraine should be the one who decides if/when they’ve had enough war, not us or Russia
JD Vance is reprehensible and talking out of both sides, but there’s some truth to this idea. If you look back at the deeper history of Ukraine, the Donbas wasn’t a part of Ukraine under Kievan Russ or the precursor dynasty. The area is very ethnically Russian & Russophone (absolutely artificially boosted by prior pseudo-genicidal policy of Russification, as also in Poland) and if you look at the census data, the electoral history, and where the separatists draw recruits from, it’s very split east/south-east of the Dnipro river.
If the government in Kyiv (rightfully) refuses to give territory and end to the war, they are only left with Russian capitulation or a NK/SK style permanent standoff over their own DMZ. The survey data indicates the Ukranian people are willing to go all the way to Crimea, which is mirrored by Kyiv policy, but viable is that for Ukraine militarily? Frontline progress is steady but slow, and Ukraine shares a lot of the skewed age demographics with Russia that make a long term war difficult on manpower alone.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Sen. JD Vance (R-Ohio) said Sunday that the United States needs to accept that Ukraine will likely need to “cede some territory” to Russia to end the fighting.
Vance told CNN’s Jake Tapper on “State of the Union” that he is opposed to sending more aid to Ukraine because he does not believe the country will ever be able to overpower Russia.
Many Republicans have become opposed to sending more assistance to Ukraine and have demanded that increased border security measures be included in the funding request.
Senate Republicans blocked a measure to provide aid to Ukraine and Israel last week due to a lack of border provisions in the bill.
The Biden administration warned earlier this month that the U.S. will run out of money for Ukraine without congressional action by the end of the year.
Vance argued Sunday that no one believed Ukraine was going to win the war, explaining that the main focus should be bringing an end to the fighting and killing in the region.
The original article contains 391 words, the summary contains 165 words. Saved 58%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
I hope something changes soon and Ukraine can make some moves.
Putin rumpswab says what?
I share the sentiment here, but it looks more and more that neither the usa or eu have the resolve to continue even with the current puny support.
It seems that the dictator will get away with it. Realistic scenario is that Russia will not be able to get back into military shape for a decade and by that time putin will likely be gone and the world will have a whole different sets of problems.
Russia has no offensive capability. They are ground down. Putin has to mobilize again which he may not survive.
They are proving you wrong. They have enough soldiers that they pay a lot to join. Their drone capabilities are improving, they are in a war economy now and they can run that for some time for sure. Iran is helping, NK has stockpiles of munition and a thirst for rocket tech.
What does Ukraine have? EU that promises 1mio bombs and delivers 300k? Usa, where half the voters don't want to help anymore?
Let them use the. North Koren shells! They are old, bad, poorly made and are blowing up barrels. South Korea just gave a millions shells. Also, last time I checked, Russia had a mercenary group March on the capital. Russia is falling apart.
I wish I was that optimistic. Maybe I would be if there wasn't for a few hundred thousand armed Russians nobody cares about still available and the wavering minimal support from the west.
EU is a joke. At least the Americans gave the 30 year old long range missiles.
Half? Which corner of your ass did you pull this from?
What a cute ass comment, I guess? Would totally make sense if there wasn't the fact of a trump presidency.
Now tell me how that can't happen again.
It can happen again because the election system in the US is a fucking travesty.
All I meant to say was that there is no way 50% of Americans support Republican bullshit. More like a solid 30% who are gerrymandered and electoral colleged into power.
Pretty happy you found it cute though!.
That's why I said voters. It doesn't matter, that's not the point. Point is, it can happen again. Just a few slip ups from a frail octogenarian known for having slip ups. You think EU can pick up the slack? All they do is make vague promises then end up sueing eachother.
Fair enough. Cheers.
What if the US was in the same scenario. Would you give up a state like Texas? Even though there are no men or doctors in Texas that will stand up for Kate Cox. I'd have to say no.
Alabama would be OK though.