And before anyone says "no one pays those wages anymore," it's true that I didn't get paid $7.25 an hour when I first moved back to Indiana about 10 years ago.
I was paid $7.75 an hour. From a TV station. To shoot live news and sports, meaning traveling in weather no matter how dangerous for regional basketball games and seeing lots of dead bodies, then going back and editing two news shows every night before heading out again to shoot the next car crash.
And when I was up for a promotion, I was told I didn't have the right attitude. Because my attitude was things like, "it's blizzarding out right now. I really don't think it's safe for me to drive 50 miles down a 2-lane highway at night." rather than, "sir yes sir!"
I left that job as soon as I could. To the other TV station in town. For a $10 an hour job making commercials.
These are jobs in L.A., where I used to live, that would pay you a high five-figure salary if not a six-figure one. And the weather is a lot safer to drive in.
Yep, Indiana sucks when it comes to pay. I'm sure those other states are just as bad.
Attitude and wages have a direct correlation. As an employer, you pay for the attitude you get.
You would think so, but the other people in the same job were gung-ho for it. It was bizarre. And I basically spent my evenings documenting tragedies when it wasn't sports (and I hate sports), so it took a serious psychological toll, which it should have for anyone who wasn't the apparent psychopaths I was working with.
outrageous, I can't believe anyone in television journalism, a fairly high profile position, would be paid only $7.75 an hour. I often wonder how much those people on TV are earning. I always imagine theyre all multimillionaires in amazing houses with amazing cars.
It's a small town, so I didn't expect $90,000 a year or anything, but you'd think they'd pay a little more than they did. But I really needed a job at the time.
You missed Arkansas
Arkansas minimum is $11.00
Thanks I wonder why it was included on the info graphic as one of the states that had the fed minimum.
I didn't see Virginia on your list, but it's definitely not on the map in the article. Are they somewhere in-between?
Virginia is $12.00. The map from the article is just showing recent minimum wage hikes.
Upcoming wage hikes.
For example Massachusetts is also not there: we raised minimum wage in 2023 but do not have another raise coming in 2024
...I make about $20 per hour as a surgical tech, and the cheapest apartments that are within the on-call response time radius of the hospital and don't come with a realistic chance of getting shot while walking to or from the car; plus utilities, food, gas, etc... and there's almost nothing left.
I could stretch it out a little by eating rice for every meal, but $7.50 per hour wouldn't even cover rent. Splitting it with a roommate who also makes $7.50 per hour might just barely cover rent.
You'd need like 5 people sharing a single bedroom apartment and a car just have a roof over their head and food in their stomach.
...meanwhile we have oligarchs that make so much money that the number of dollars is literally beyond our brain's ability to process.
I have nothing intelligent or insightful to say. I just fucking hate this country.
That's okay. Me too!
That's still a lot more intelligent and insightful than the lawmakers in the other 25 states.
"The 20 states where the baseline wage will remain at $7.25 an hour are primarily located in the South and Midwest, ranging from Alabama to Wisconsin. "
So, the states you thought weren't getting the raise are the states that aren't getting the raise, except Florida apparently!?
If you're making minimum look into operations/warehousing. It's hard work but I literally can't get people to show up for less than $25/hr. Suburbs of Chicago tho.
Manufacturing company I work for starts at a minimum of $20/hr for the lowest role, and that's our nationwide lowest pay.
We are constantly hiring
Where would I go to find warehouse jobs?
Avoid retail because those jobs will be brutal and pay less. Check indeed for warehousing, the good jobs will be small businesses and 3PL as they both typically operate during normal business hours. Apply even if you don't have experience, it's not complicated work so... I can only speak for myself but I mostly look for aptitude, effort, and attention to detail.
We currently have 2 full-time jobs open and our 3PL is an hour away in the suburbs and they're also struggling to find people, full time M-F. Obvious positions like receiving and pick/pack, forklift drivers, and also kitting/assembly, special projects like labelling, etc. It can be mind numbing work at times but if you stay open to trying new things you'll end up doing something different every day and moving between departments. If you're reliable and put in effort it's easy to move into a supervisory role and salary can be anywhere from $50-$80k+ but 60k is typical.
I did all these things and I'm an operations manager now and make very good money. People see warehousing as a dead end job but honestly it opens a lot of doors into operations jobs.
Who’s getting a raise? No one probably. It won’t be enough to compensate for the lost wages to corporate greed “inflation”.
Still think we should just put all elected officials on the national minimum wage and watch how fast workers lives get better.
"You work a minimal effort job you get minimum wage."
Explain to me again why I'm seeing machinists and web development jobs being posted for fucking $16/hr when that's minimum wage?
Why are people who literally save fucking lives getting taco bell wages?
I love how there's always a quote to justify shit wages that just completely flies in the face of reality.
I'd say minimal effort is simply owning a thing and paying other people to do the work for you. Sorry that making phone calls is so much work for you...
Why are people who literally save fucking lives getting taco bell wages?
In California, at least, the people who save lives will be guaranteed at least $1/hour more than what the Taco Bell employees are guaranteed in 2024.
They forgot Massachusetts. Yeah, we’re not raising minimum wage next year but it’s already $15/hr. We deserve to be listed as one of the six seven states with minimum wage twice the federal level
Go Sox!
The increases will boost the baseline pay to at least $16 an hour in three states: California, New York, and Washington. In 22 states.
Not enough for those high-cost cities.
I just heard on the radio this morning that a newly elected South American president raised the baseline to a 2%. This percent means $460 a month!
fast food like McDonald's and Jack in the Box and Burger King and Panera bread workers in California will have minimum wage of $20.
I live in Florida and minimum wage for most fast food restaurants is 16
The increases will boost the baseline pay to at least $16 an hour in three states: California, New York and Washington. In 22 states, the new minimum wages will take effect on January 1. However, Nevada and Oregon's new rates will go into effect on July 1, while Florida's will increase on September 30.
By contrast. workers in 20 states will still be subject to the federal minimum wage, which has stood at $7.25 an hour since 2009, when it was last increased.
Republicans care SO MUCH about Workers that they aren't Raising their Wages!
The argument is that raising wages would cost business owners too much. They would need to close up shop rather than pay higher wages, and then the workers aren't making anything.
And there is some truth to that, unfortunately. Almost half of all private sector employees work for a small business. If small business labor costs doubled overnight, most could not absorb the additional expense and survive. You'd see a lot of places go belly up, and either nothing would replace them or large corporations that were able to absorb the labor costs would take over and raise prices to maintain their margin. A higher minimum wage just strengthens the position of the companies with enough capital to survive the change.
I agree that wages need to increase, but it's a lot more complicated than just the government saying, "Hey! Pay them more!"
If small business labor costs doubled overnight
Then don’t do that. Every such minimum wage hike I looked at the details of phases it in over multiple years. I was by no means comprehensive, but it’s a logical compromise
Most successful Small Businesses already pay above Minimum Wage enough that an increase would only effect Corporate. But also by your Logic Competition shouldn't exist because it would cause Small Businesses to shutter since they couldn't weather the storm. Please have more faith in your local businesses and for Heaven's Sake buy from them!
Almost no small businesses pay minimum wage, though.
Right now, discussions about minimum wage are generally meaningless, because such a small portion of Americans makes minimum wage.
This is neither an argument for or against minimum wage, either. It's just that minimum wage doesn't really have the impact it's touted to have.
I love how the article doesn't actually bother breaking out the minimum wage by state so you have to go searching if you actually want to know.
What, you expect reporters to…report? /s
If you guys look at the article, the map with the green states is interactive and you can view what the new minimum will be by clicking a state.
Still a shit article when states not raising minimum wage in 2024 do not even exist, yet their values are very much relevant
They could have made it easy with a list. It's a pain to have to click on every state.
States raising the minimum wage in 2024
Here are the states that are boosting their minimum wages in 2024, along with the new baseline pay that will take effect next year. Most of the states will increase their baseline wage beginning in January, with increases in Florida, Nevada and Oregon going into effect later in 2024.
Alaska: $11.73
Arizona: $14.35
California: $16
Colorado: $14.42
Connecticut: $15.69
Delaware: $13.25
Florida: $13
Hawaii: $14
Illinois: $14
Maine: $14.15
Maryland: $15
Michigan: $10.33
Minnesota: $10.85
Missouri: $12.30
Montana: $10.30
Nebraska: $12
Nevada: $12
New Jersey: $15.13
New York: $16
Ohio: $10.45
Oregon: $14.20 plus an adjustment for inflation (TBD)
Rhode Island: $14
South Dakota: $11.20
Vermont: $13.67
Washington: $16.28
It was at the end of the article.
Proud to have the highest on that list, Washington is a pretty good state all things considered
That belt of white at the bottom… wonder if that area has a name?
The shit belt?
Worth mentioning that Florida passed a law a couple years ago that has been raising the minimum wage by $1/hr every year until we get to $15/hr. Slowly is better than not at all. Nice to see Florida not last for once.
I wish most/all laws worked this way. We should be aiming for incremental changes over time instead of big bang ones that get undone after the next election.
Hell, for minimum wage though, it should always change based on cost of living as it continues to increase over time.
Minimum wage is a scam. When there is a floor employers aim for that instead of having to compete. It is like pre-collusion around wages.
It seems like collusion because a lot of employers stick there. But that's only because those employers would be paying you less if they legally could. Companies can always pay up for better work if they value it.
Umm, what?
So, without minimum wage, the floor would be zero. If corpos aim for the floor, by your own argument they would absolutely pay less if it was legal.
What are you smoking?? And why aren't you sharing?!
But no one would actually work for free, so now the company has to actually decide how much it values the work at.
Look at what happened with retail and fast-food after lockdowns lifted in the US: wages surged for the bottom 10% of earners. These places couldn't get people to work for minimum wage, so they had to ignore minimum wage and actually value the work accordingly. As a result, income saw some pretty strong growth for those employees.
What a minimum wage does is set the opening baseline for negotiation. The company can say, "We know this is a shitty job that anyone can do, and the government says that kind of work is worth $7.25." That creates a hurdle to discourage an employee from negotiating for more.
Minimum wage needs to be adjusted for inflation to match what it was originally intended for, or it needs to be abolished. Right now, it just gives employers a very low starting point for their bad-faith negotiations.
It confuses me that did not address the issue that a lack of minimum wage would allow employers to pay people less. But clearly, if it's totally legal to pay people less, the only logical outcome is the opposite? Yeah, no.
But, whatever. Clearly, the utter lack of anything even resembling logic in your argument doesn't bother you. Doesn't change the fact that you're wrong, of course. So, yeah, whatever. Go ahead and give us all another nonsense explanation for a clearly flawed premise, since that seems to amuse you or something. I dunno.
Did you even read my comment? Yes, without minimum wage an employer could theoretically pay an employee less. But minimum wage already doesn't pay enough for people to survive. All it is doing is giving employers a solid number they can point to and say, "Well, the government says this work is only worth $7.25!"
No one can survive on the current federal minimum wage, but employers are using that as a guideline when offering wages instead of looking at their business needs or local competition. That means the current minimum wage is actively harming employees. So, again:
Minimum wage needs to be adjusted for inflation to match what it was originally intended for, or it needs to be abolished. Right now, it just gives employers a very low starting point for their bad-faith negotiations.
Yes, I did read your post. If companies could legally pay less, many would. Hand waving the issue does not address the fact that it is a major flaw in your argument. I do not accept that abolishing minimum wage would have anything other than a negative effect on employees. Yes, having it set too low is a problem. Removing minimum wage will not solve that problem.
Your argument has circled back on itself multiple times. So, whatever, I give up. Go on with your bad self, or...whatever...
You do realize that anyone could still pay a higher wage to compete right?
You must be confusing it with maximum wage, which is the opposite and not a thing.
Today is your day to shine. You have received the dumbest first day on lemmy award.
You mentioned the floor is what they're aiming for but without a minimum wage the floor is zero. You fucking potato.
You can disagree without being rude you absolute muppet.
I save polite disagreement for valid discussions.
That's not how any of this works.
Fucking idiot. We literally put those laws in place because of history. Read a book.
Capitalism itself is the scam, ownership is fake justification for exploitation and suggests a false level of meritocracy. Capitalists aren't Capitalists because they are smarter or more competent, but because they have money, and can grow that money in the M-C-M' circuit.
Minimum wage is an absolute necessity because Capitalists would abuse their power to pay as little as possible otherwise. The only places a minimum wage are proven to be unnecessary is in extremely unionized countries where Unions have all of the bargaining power they need.
Minimum wage is an absolute necessity because Capitalists would abuse their power to pay as little as possible otherwise.
This is wrong for several reasons:
1: even a worker-owned co-op would seek to limit new hires, because the pool of revenue is only so big. This is no different from wanting to pay someone as little as possible, ethically.
2: if minimum wage was an absolute necessity and markets didn't drive wages, vastly more people would be paid at minimum wage.
Minimum wage means if they could get away with paying you less they would, but if it weren't for those pesky laws. But let's be real here, they already get away with huge amounts of wage theft, especially for minimum wage workers. The minimum was always meant to be the minimum amount needed to live. It's just corporations/oligarchs wanted the masses more desperate because they are easier to exploit. Oh there's middle class, and lower class and upper class. Those are "UnSkIlLeD" labor jobs, they don't deserve a living wage. It's always been a war against the working class and they have us fighting with ourselves over this shit. NWBTCW
You: Employers aim for the floor!
Also you: The floor should be 0!
You really don't know how capitalism works do you?
You all are so short sighted there isn't even a conversation to be had. Try this https://youtu.be/A-I4Vsl-AEg lots of background but you can skip to 15min
The way I see it is higher minimum wage will just increase inflation which is already ridiculous. It would be better to tax/cap corporate profits, limit ceo compensation to 10 or 20x the lowest paid employee's salary etc. People not earning a living wage is a symptom of broader issues, not the problem itself. By manipulating this symptom there are knock on effects that will just make things worse.
Oh they got a youtube video!! I'm totally convinced!! Youtube!!! Youtube everyone!!!
They got a youtube video everyone!! DEBATE OVER
Read a fucking book. Exploitation will occur if you allow the free market to fully set the price of labor.
“In the making of the wages contract the individual laborer is always at a disadvantage. He has something which he is obliged to sell and which his employer is not obliged to take, since he [that is, the employer] can reject single men with impunity“
John Clark
Wages are already massively above minimum wage for the overwhelming majority of workers, so the market is currently setting the price for labor.
Well if the market is currently setting the price of labor for the majority of Americans, problem solved, let’s get rid of the minimum wage and get to exploiting the 1.1M Americans currently making it. 🙄
1.1 million Americans is less than 1/2 of 1% of the population, which is my entire point - the market is very much setting the price for their labor.
Of those 1.1 million, 500k are between 16 and 24 years old - I e. These are not their eventual careers, and the job is shit work no one wants. These are exactly who minimum wage laws should protect, and I agree it should be higher, but your extrapolation that markets cannot dictate wages is objectively false.
Ideally, minimum wage would serve to address the externality of jobs that are not competitive in the marketplace of wages, which is nominally what they do now, but I think both of us would agree they do a poor job of that.
$7.25 Club of Shame (Federal Minimum)
Alabama
Georgia
Idaho
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Mississippi
New Hampshire
North Caroline
North Dakota
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Wisconsin
Wyoming
And before anyone says "no one pays those wages anymore," it's true that I didn't get paid $7.25 an hour when I first moved back to Indiana about 10 years ago.
I was paid $7.75 an hour. From a TV station. To shoot live news and sports, meaning traveling in weather no matter how dangerous for regional basketball games and seeing lots of dead bodies, then going back and editing two news shows every night before heading out again to shoot the next car crash.
And when I was up for a promotion, I was told I didn't have the right attitude. Because my attitude was things like, "it's blizzarding out right now. I really don't think it's safe for me to drive 50 miles down a 2-lane highway at night." rather than, "sir yes sir!"
I left that job as soon as I could. To the other TV station in town. For a $10 an hour job making commercials.
These are jobs in L.A., where I used to live, that would pay you a high five-figure salary if not a six-figure one. And the weather is a lot safer to drive in.
Yep, Indiana sucks when it comes to pay. I'm sure those other states are just as bad.
Attitude and wages have a direct correlation. As an employer, you pay for the attitude you get.
You would think so, but the other people in the same job were gung-ho for it. It was bizarre. And I basically spent my evenings documenting tragedies when it wasn't sports (and I hate sports), so it took a serious psychological toll, which it should have for anyone who wasn't the apparent psychopaths I was working with.
outrageous, I can't believe anyone in television journalism, a fairly high profile position, would be paid only $7.75 an hour. I often wonder how much those people on TV are earning. I always imagine theyre all multimillionaires in amazing houses with amazing cars.
It's a small town, so I didn't expect $90,000 a year or anything, but you'd think they'd pay a little more than they did. But I really needed a job at the time.
You missed Arkansas
Arkansas minimum is $11.00
Thanks I wonder why it was included on the info graphic as one of the states that had the fed minimum.
I didn't see Virginia on your list, but it's definitely not on the map in the article. Are they somewhere in-between?
Virginia is $12.00. The map from the article is just showing recent minimum wage hikes.
Upcoming wage hikes.
For example Massachusetts is also not there: we raised minimum wage in 2023 but do not have another raise coming in 2024
...I make about $20 per hour as a surgical tech, and the cheapest apartments that are within the on-call response time radius of the hospital and don't come with a realistic chance of getting shot while walking to or from the car; plus utilities, food, gas, etc... and there's almost nothing left.
I could stretch it out a little by eating rice for every meal, but $7.50 per hour wouldn't even cover rent. Splitting it with a roommate who also makes $7.50 per hour might just barely cover rent.
You'd need like 5 people sharing a single bedroom apartment and a car just have a roof over their head and food in their stomach.
...meanwhile we have oligarchs that make so much money that the number of dollars is literally beyond our brain's ability to process.
We're way overdue for guillotine day.
I have nothing intelligent or insightful to say. I just fucking hate this country.
That's okay. Me too!
That's still a lot more intelligent and insightful than the lawmakers in the other 25 states.
"The 20 states where the baseline wage will remain at $7.25 an hour are primarily located in the South and Midwest, ranging from Alabama to Wisconsin. "
So, the states you thought weren't getting the raise are the states that aren't getting the raise, except Florida apparently!?
If you're making minimum look into operations/warehousing. It's hard work but I literally can't get people to show up for less than $25/hr. Suburbs of Chicago tho.
Manufacturing company I work for starts at a minimum of $20/hr for the lowest role, and that's our nationwide lowest pay.
We are constantly hiring
Where would I go to find warehouse jobs?
Avoid retail because those jobs will be brutal and pay less. Check indeed for warehousing, the good jobs will be small businesses and 3PL as they both typically operate during normal business hours. Apply even if you don't have experience, it's not complicated work so... I can only speak for myself but I mostly look for aptitude, effort, and attention to detail.
We currently have 2 full-time jobs open and our 3PL is an hour away in the suburbs and they're also struggling to find people, full time M-F. Obvious positions like receiving and pick/pack, forklift drivers, and also kitting/assembly, special projects like labelling, etc. It can be mind numbing work at times but if you stay open to trying new things you'll end up doing something different every day and moving between departments. If you're reliable and put in effort it's easy to move into a supervisory role and salary can be anywhere from $50-$80k+ but 60k is typical.
I did all these things and I'm an operations manager now and make very good money. People see warehousing as a dead end job but honestly it opens a lot of doors into operations jobs.
Who’s getting a raise? No one probably. It won’t be enough to compensate for the lost wages to corporate greed “inflation”.
Still think we should just put all elected officials on the national minimum wage and watch how fast workers lives get better.
"You work a minimal effort job you get minimum wage."
Explain to me again why I'm seeing machinists and web development jobs being posted for fucking $16/hr when that's minimum wage?
Why are people who literally save fucking lives getting taco bell wages?
I love how there's always a quote to justify shit wages that just completely flies in the face of reality.
I'd say minimal effort is simply owning a thing and paying other people to do the work for you. Sorry that making phone calls is so much work for you...
In California, at least, the people who save lives will be guaranteed at least $1/hour more than what the Taco Bell employees are guaranteed in 2024.
Bout the same for EMTs, then.
They forgot Massachusetts. Yeah, we’re not raising minimum wage next year but it’s already $15/hr. We deserve to be listed as one of the
sixseven states with minimum wage twice the federal levelGo Sox!
The increases will boost the baseline pay to at least $16 an hour in three states: California, New York, and Washington. In 22 states.
Not enough for those high-cost cities.
I just heard on the radio this morning that a newly elected South American president raised the baseline to a 2%. This percent means $460 a month!
fast food like McDonald's and Jack in the Box and Burger King and Panera bread workers in California will have minimum wage of $20.
I live in Florida and minimum wage for most fast food restaurants is 16
Republicans care SO MUCH about Workers that they aren't Raising their Wages!
The argument is that raising wages would cost business owners too much. They would need to close up shop rather than pay higher wages, and then the workers aren't making anything.
And there is some truth to that, unfortunately. Almost half of all private sector employees work for a small business. If small business labor costs doubled overnight, most could not absorb the additional expense and survive. You'd see a lot of places go belly up, and either nothing would replace them or large corporations that were able to absorb the labor costs would take over and raise prices to maintain their margin. A higher minimum wage just strengthens the position of the companies with enough capital to survive the change.
I agree that wages need to increase, but it's a lot more complicated than just the government saying, "Hey! Pay them more!"
Then don’t do that. Every such minimum wage hike I looked at the details of phases it in over multiple years. I was by no means comprehensive, but it’s a logical compromise
Most successful Small Businesses already pay above Minimum Wage enough that an increase would only effect Corporate. But also by your Logic Competition shouldn't exist because it would cause Small Businesses to shutter since they couldn't weather the storm. Please have more faith in your local businesses and for Heaven's Sake buy from them!
Almost no small businesses pay minimum wage, though.
Right now, discussions about minimum wage are generally meaningless, because such a small portion of Americans makes minimum wage.
This is neither an argument for or against minimum wage, either. It's just that minimum wage doesn't really have the impact it's touted to have.
I love how the article doesn't actually bother breaking out the minimum wage by state so you have to go searching if you actually want to know.
What, you expect reporters to…report? /s
If you guys look at the article, the map with the green states is interactive and you can view what the new minimum will be by clicking a state.
Still a shit article when states not raising minimum wage in 2024 do not even exist, yet their values are very much relevant
They could have made it easy with a list. It's a pain to have to click on every state.
States raising the minimum wage in 2024
Here are the states that are boosting their minimum wages in 2024, along with the new baseline pay that will take effect next year. Most of the states will increase their baseline wage beginning in January, with increases in Florida, Nevada and Oregon going into effect later in 2024.
Alaska: $11.73
Arizona: $14.35
California: $16
Colorado: $14.42
Connecticut: $15.69
Delaware: $13.25
Florida: $13
Hawaii: $14
Illinois: $14
Maine: $14.15
Maryland: $15
Michigan: $10.33
Minnesota: $10.85
Missouri: $12.30
Montana: $10.30
Nebraska: $12
Nevada: $12
New Jersey: $15.13
New York: $16
Ohio: $10.45
Oregon: $14.20 plus an adjustment for inflation (TBD)
Rhode Island: $14
South Dakota: $11.20
Vermont: $13.67
Washington: $16.28
It was at the end of the article.
Proud to have the highest on that list, Washington is a pretty good state all things considered
That belt of white at the bottom… wonder if that area has a name?
The shit belt?
Worth mentioning that Florida passed a law a couple years ago that has been raising the minimum wage by $1/hr every year until we get to $15/hr. Slowly is better than not at all. Nice to see Florida not last for once.
I wish most/all laws worked this way. We should be aiming for incremental changes over time instead of big bang ones that get undone after the next election.
Hell, for minimum wage though, it should always change based on cost of living as it continues to increase over time.
Minimum wage is a scam. When there is a floor employers aim for that instead of having to compete. It is like pre-collusion around wages.
It seems like collusion because a lot of employers stick there. But that's only because those employers would be paying you less if they legally could. Companies can always pay up for better work if they value it.
Umm, what?
So, without minimum wage, the floor would be zero. If corpos aim for the floor, by your own argument they would absolutely pay less if it was legal.
What are you smoking?? And why aren't you sharing?!
But no one would actually work for free, so now the company has to actually decide how much it values the work at.
Look at what happened with retail and fast-food after lockdowns lifted in the US: wages surged for the bottom 10% of earners. These places couldn't get people to work for minimum wage, so they had to ignore minimum wage and actually value the work accordingly. As a result, income saw some pretty strong growth for those employees.
What a minimum wage does is set the opening baseline for negotiation. The company can say, "We know this is a shitty job that anyone can do, and the government says that kind of work is worth $7.25." That creates a hurdle to discourage an employee from negotiating for more.
Minimum wage needs to be adjusted for inflation to match what it was originally intended for, or it needs to be abolished. Right now, it just gives employers a very low starting point for their bad-faith negotiations.
It confuses me that did not address the issue that a lack of minimum wage would allow employers to pay people less. But clearly, if it's totally legal to pay people less, the only logical outcome is the opposite? Yeah, no.
But, whatever. Clearly, the utter lack of anything even resembling logic in your argument doesn't bother you. Doesn't change the fact that you're wrong, of course. So, yeah, whatever. Go ahead and give us all another nonsense explanation for a clearly flawed premise, since that seems to amuse you or something. I dunno.
Did you even read my comment? Yes, without minimum wage an employer could theoretically pay an employee less. But minimum wage already doesn't pay enough for people to survive. All it is doing is giving employers a solid number they can point to and say, "Well, the government says this work is only worth $7.25!"
No one can survive on the current federal minimum wage, but employers are using that as a guideline when offering wages instead of looking at their business needs or local competition. That means the current minimum wage is actively harming employees. So, again:
Yes, I did read your post. If companies could legally pay less, many would. Hand waving the issue does not address the fact that it is a major flaw in your argument. I do not accept that abolishing minimum wage would have anything other than a negative effect on employees. Yes, having it set too low is a problem. Removing minimum wage will not solve that problem.
Your argument has circled back on itself multiple times. So, whatever, I give up. Go on with your bad self, or...whatever...
You do realize that anyone could still pay a higher wage to compete right?
You must be confusing it with maximum wage, which is the opposite and not a thing.
Today is your day to shine. You have received the dumbest first day on lemmy award.
You mentioned the floor is what they're aiming for but without a minimum wage the floor is zero. You fucking potato.
You can disagree without being rude you absolute muppet.
I save polite disagreement for valid discussions.
That's not how any of this works.
Fucking idiot. We literally put those laws in place because of history. Read a book.
Capitalism itself is the scam, ownership is fake justification for exploitation and suggests a false level of meritocracy. Capitalists aren't Capitalists because they are smarter or more competent, but because they have money, and can grow that money in the M-C-M' circuit.
Minimum wage is an absolute necessity because Capitalists would abuse their power to pay as little as possible otherwise. The only places a minimum wage are proven to be unnecessary is in extremely unionized countries where Unions have all of the bargaining power they need.
This is wrong for several reasons:
1: even a worker-owned co-op would seek to limit new hires, because the pool of revenue is only so big. This is no different from wanting to pay someone as little as possible, ethically.
2: if minimum wage was an absolute necessity and markets didn't drive wages, vastly more people would be paid at minimum wage.
Minimum wage means if they could get away with paying you less they would, but if it weren't for those pesky laws. But let's be real here, they already get away with huge amounts of wage theft, especially for minimum wage workers. The minimum was always meant to be the minimum amount needed to live. It's just corporations/oligarchs wanted the masses more desperate because they are easier to exploit. Oh there's middle class, and lower class and upper class. Those are "UnSkIlLeD" labor jobs, they don't deserve a living wage. It's always been a war against the working class and they have us fighting with ourselves over this shit. NWBTCW
You: Employers aim for the floor! Also you: The floor should be 0!
You really don't know how capitalism works do you?
You all are so short sighted there isn't even a conversation to be had. Try this https://youtu.be/A-I4Vsl-AEg lots of background but you can skip to 15min
The way I see it is higher minimum wage will just increase inflation which is already ridiculous. It would be better to tax/cap corporate profits, limit ceo compensation to 10 or 20x the lowest paid employee's salary etc. People not earning a living wage is a symptom of broader issues, not the problem itself. By manipulating this symptom there are knock on effects that will just make things worse.
Oh they got a youtube video!! I'm totally convinced!! Youtube!!! Youtube everyone!!!
They got a youtube video everyone!! DEBATE OVER
Read a fucking book. Exploitation will occur if you allow the free market to fully set the price of labor.
John Clark
Wages are already massively above minimum wage for the overwhelming majority of workers, so the market is currently setting the price for labor.
Well if the market is currently setting the price of labor for the majority of Americans, problem solved, let’s get rid of the minimum wage and get to exploiting the 1.1M Americans currently making it. 🙄
https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2021/home.htm
1.1 million Americans is less than 1/2 of 1% of the population, which is my entire point - the market is very much setting the price for their labor.
Of those 1.1 million, 500k are between 16 and 24 years old - I e. These are not their eventual careers, and the job is shit work no one wants. These are exactly who minimum wage laws should protect, and I agree it should be higher, but your extrapolation that markets cannot dictate wages is objectively false.
Ideally, minimum wage would serve to address the externality of jobs that are not competitive in the marketplace of wages, which is nominally what they do now, but I think both of us would agree they do a poor job of that.