Apple hit with class action lawsuit over iCloud's 5GB limit
9to5mac.com
Apple hit with class action lawsuit over iCloud's 5GB limit::A newly-proposed class action lawsuit alleges that Apple has “marked up its iCloud prices to the point where the service...
The lawsuit isn't really about the 5 GB free tier, but about being able to use system services like device backups with other cloud providers.
Poorly written headline.
The actual article headline
Ah ok. I was so confused. I still don't know if it's legal.
I doubt they’re going to win. Apple does allow file and photo backups to other services. This about backing up OS files like preferences whatnot. Which 5gb is probably way more than enough for.
O.o Can you explain how to do nightly backups of your photos and files to external services? Or are you talking about “other apps are allowed to access these files, and you can set up shortcuts to run apps, and those apps can back up the files” which is extremely different than “Apple lets you back the files up.”
I’ll speak for Dropbox. Dropbox has a setting for it in the photos app. (I have it off right now)
And for file, as long as you save your files to your drop box directory, they will be mirrored in the cloud.
What you’re talking about is more of a happenstance of other things converging on the ability to do this. Apple doesn’t support it, nor do they care if they break it in the future. Think of it like a workaround that just hasn’t been broken by an update (yet).
This is factually incorrect. They have actively supported this stuff, and most notably, recently released a framework so non-Apple remote storage can reliably integrate into iOS / MacOS without needing to maintain a kernel extension.
Go look at the developer documentation and the WWDC sessions around file management if you don’t believe me.
Sometimes it's hard to feel sorry for Apple users given the amount of repeated nickeling and diming they go through,yet make excuses for (as seen in the comments). Definitely shades of battered woman syndrome
Does android offer free storage for cloud backups?
Drive is 15 GB
Can't iPhone users use Drive?
Yes. Although it is limited in what you can back up afaik
Wait, really? I haven’t checked that in a couple years but my Home Assistant backups are broken because out of Google drive space and it shouldn’t use anywhere near that amount - Damn, now I’m going to have to actually check it out
Edit: it was full of random crap. Good news it was trivial to clear space but now i have to figure out why some of that was there and whether is have copies
Ahh, a fellow HA user spotted in the wild!
So marginally better, thought so
3x as much is "marginally better." What world do you Apple zealots live in?
15gb ain’t much either, and drive works on iOS to boot. So I guess earth?
Edit: Google Drive free tier: 15gb Google Drive 100gb: $2/month iCloud free tier: 5gb iCloud 50gb: $1/month
Wow, what a radical difference in offerings. I am definitely just like a battered woman
The problem stated in the lawsuit is that you can’t use alternative backup providers on iOS, while you (presumably?) can on Android. Apple has no real competition in the device backup space, as they prevent third-parties from providing an equivalent service. (Notice the word equivalent - iTunes backups don’t count.) It’s a perfectly reasonable complaint IMO.
I say this as someone who prefers iCloud for its encryption features.
That’s reasonable. I think iOS/iPadOS overall are in dire need of being more open. iPad especially since they’re at the point where they could largely replace laptops but are hamstrung by being so locked down. I still think it’s obnoxious to compare people with different opinions to domestic abuse victims
It's three times more lmao
As far as I know, Android also doesn't give you the option to back up system and app data to something else than Google Drive. LineageOS gives you that option but they implemented that themselves.
That’s a pretty sick analogy. It’s crazy the levels you guys take these Apple feuds to.
What!? the company that weaponizes vendor-lockin the most is overcharging for their service!?!?!
9,99€ per month for 2 TB seems pretty normal to me. Google Drive is the same price iirc, and other providers have similar pricing.
That's still expensive tho. After 10 months you could've just bought a 2tb nvme instead. Or a refurbished 10tb HDD.
Of course, but that's an alternative you still have. As long as you have a computer, you can backup your phone to it just fine. The $100 for the drive also doesn't factor in redundancy, bandwidth cost, power cost and maintenance.
You're right about the last part, I didn't think about that. But wasn't the whole point of this that you can only backup your system and app data to iCloud? Can you back that up using a computer as well?
Yes, you can. If you choose to protect the backup with a password, it's actually a more complete backup as it also backs up things like sessions, so you don't have to login again to most apps after restoring.
So it backs up system settings, app data and stuff as well, right? But do you just need a PC for that or does it have to be a Mac?
Yes, it backs up pretty much everything, including app data. Apps themselves will need to redownload from the App Store though, just like with iCloud backups.
Apple officially supports device backups on Macs (integrated into Finder) or Windows via this app: https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9np83lwlpz9k
Interesting. Still sucks that they don't give you the option to choose a cloud provider for this but I didn't expect them to just let you use your PC.
And you’re able to do that…
Meh, they let you use whatever service you want, just not for some of the OS and app preference files - which are well under 5gb.
If you want to back up your media and docs to Dropbox, go for it.
I could join the 5GB club as well - after maybe ten years in the Apple ecosystem, my iPhone backup is 4.1GB.
Separately I have 28GB photos that could be synched to any service
I buy 2TB iCloud because I have multiple devices, share the space with a family of four, and use it for cloud storage from my PC
I read this article, because it's absurd to make a class action lawsuit about the free tier remaining at only 5GB. Apple has the right to give as much or little away for free.
Instead, the lawsuit is about something a lot more lawsuit worthy: The fact that you cannot backup your iPhone with other cloud service providers, providing an unfair advantage to iCloud. This should definitely be illegal.
Additionally, can we have a lawsuit over excessive storage markups (that are over ~2x the gross margin of the device)? This is also basically pure profit.
Wouldn't this argument also be true for everything else Apple restricts you from doing? Texting app, browser, Apple music on a home pod, etc? (I don't have a lot of good examples because I don't have an i thing but I'm sure there are more)
This is Apple's face falling brick my brick. The app store was just the start
There's already a ruling they have to allow other browser engines
How are you guys reading this article? It took me 5-10mins of unchecking each cookie vendor one by one before I gave up.
Modern internet is a shit show
The ddg browser on my phone just kinda does it automatically
Thanks, I just installed it and now I can use the share button to load the article in ddg.
I'll consider switching to it as my default browser if it doesn't let me down over the coming weeks.
Honestly thanks for sharing with your comment
You're welcome. I've used it for a long time without issues.. take a look at the app tracking protection in the settings too. Works well
Firefox for Android
I’ve always wondered whether I should bother about doing this. I assumed if I read the article in a Private Browser, no cookies are stored, and therefore none of my information is tracked?
I'm not quite sure if they're allowed to use your IP to index your history or not. If you use private browser and VPN you'll be fine.
I've just never worked out how to easily open private browsers from my mobile sync client
I think the easiest way is to use the share
...menu to get the link and then paste it in the private browser.But yeah, no way to stop the keyboard app from seeing the link once it's in the clipboard... And Google also probably gets it from the android share functionality...
One thing Apple device browsers get so right is ReadingMode. Brave and Orion have the best in my opinion but that list is not exhaustive
What's good about Apple device browsers reading mode compared to others?
It takes away all the cookie shit and you can adjust the background to be light, dark, or sepia and manipulate the actual appearence of the text in whatever way is most pleasing for you and you can set it to default to that on all non-search engine pages+easily untoggle it if you need the original appearence
It really cleans it up but I love the making everything dark for night time. Nothing i hate more than bright white backgrounds to articles or pages I wanna read at night without screwing my sleep
Sounds similar to what's available for me on Samsung Browser. I thought these would've been default options on all browsers!
What are the privacy deets for Samsung Browser tho. I try to go for the check mark (No data collected) but thats AppStore stuff. Look into it if you can, I suspect they collect your content/searches and tie it to you
If so, i hope ur behaving u messy beast ;)
Privacy badger turned up to max
I hope they loose this lawsuit and set a precedent that Samsung also has to follow. At least Samsung gives you the choice between onedrive and Google, but still no choice for generic WebDav...
well you can add ftp/sftp/samba storage as "native", just not webdav
I hope this forces their hand in having to allow other actual e2e cloud services, its legititmately bullshit we even need to have this convo :(
I’d love to use my 2TB iCloud with my Android devices
This is a stupid lawsuit. You can back up your phone locally using iTunes and Finder and the new device app on Windows. You can also back it up using third party software. No one is forcing you to use iCloud.
You get a free computer with purchase of an iPhone? Neat!
What’s a “computer”?
You get a free backup to the cloud with purchase of a computer? Neat!
You get a free external backup drive with the purchase of a computer? Neat!
Your computer allows you to backup native app data to other cloud drives? Neat!
Y’all realize that paying for a backup device has been a thing since the dawn of computing, right?
It doesn’t matter if the hard drive is in my house, or in a server farm. Someone is going to sell me the space.
I was just trying to point out that not everyone has a computer they can “just” backup to.
Seems the issue is what you can back up on the phone and where
Many services depends on iCloud to work. Message sync and sharing Notes for instance. If your backups are taking up all your storage these things stop working right. It’s dumb.
Messages sync without being on iCloud backup.
This is an extra service they don’t have to offer. If they wanted to they could just drop the free tier altogether. You have space on your phone and you can back it up to your computer as well. I do t see the point of this lawsuit except “wah, they’re not giving me enough stuff for free!”
No, they could let you use someone else's service instead, but they've chosen to block that.
According to the article you literally can't
Although based on the comments there, the article may be wrong on that point
You can still do backups to your desktop like you used to do, it's just not usually necessary.
I need to get my old shit off of my old computers and move it to iCloud. I’m paying for it, might as well fill it up. I’d like to look at photos without browsing old ass green drives.
I won’t do it though.
Amazon Photos works. Dropbox works. NextCloud works. What service are they blocking?
iCloud backup is core to the OS, all user settings and app data is there. You can manually do it on a Mac apparently but no other service.
I paid for a MacOS app to do it. Works great
Syncios or something
According to the suit
The article is wrong.
I hate this the most about my iPhone. I’m currently on my 3rd Apple device, but you don’t get more storage every time you buy one. So if you have an iPhone and an iPad you’re still stuck with 5gb, and it’s shared with you backups and your cloud-based apps like photo sync, message sync. That 5gb is gone pretty quick.
It’s easy enough to sync photos elsewhere, but not messages. So the $1/mo storage upgrade becomes really attractive.
I hope this opens up their backup service but I doubt it.
You don’t need to backup messages to iCloud for it to sync across devices. I have multiple iPhones and iPads on one account and don’t come across this issue because I backup photos to my laptop.
Your messages share the 5gb space with the backups.
Yes, they do. If you set it up that way to store messages on the cloud.
It's shared across the account, the devices don't matter. That's what makes it seamless.
My issue is that you don’t get more space for each active device you add to the account.
And the point is that the data you share across them is identical. Additional devices does not create additional data, your usage of them does.
So your live data doesn’t get saved in the device backup?
It does--if you are signed in to all locations and have the sync settings turned on across them all, then all data will be uploaded. But if you have more photos across all devices than your plan will allow for upload, then anything extra will no longer upload unless you pay for additional space.
Apple gives you free iCloud storage to back up your phone when you get a new device.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/104980
You can also sync phone to phone when upgrading as part of the setup assistant, without needing iCloud storage.
You don’t get “more” storage though. And if you have even just one iPad your storage is gone really quick between the two devices.
Oh it’s good to know. Thanks
Apple does let you use any cloud backup service you want… just not for the OS and app preference files. Those go to iCloud, but those are also highly unlikely to hit 5gb.
When you cloud restore with your media backed up to something like Dropbox, this is what happens.
After logging into iCloud, iOS checks iCloud for the apps you had installed, and it downloads the latest compatible versions from the store. Then, iOS pulls down OS and app preferences from iCloud
Launch Dropbox, or similar, to pull down your backed up media and files.
Apple gets no money for storage, but Dropbox gets a check.
After ten years, I hit 5GB. I upgraded to 200GB.
For $3/month
There are many, many reasons to bash the shit out of Apple until you’re left with applesauce, and this is the one they chose?
Whatever, guys..
They need to make it your choice (of compliant options where compliant != neutering for the USgovernment) for the default background running option tho, you're not defending the hero we deserve, only what is forced by their lax regulation
Right now, Apple selectively degrades the experience of effortless syncing thru any other modality than its in-house inferior option. That is wrong and monopolistic and antitrust-worthy action now that the technology is ubiquitous and Applehas the tools to ensure its done consistent with the Apple walled garden gestalt. A gated garden would not be so bad, hell, everybody has one basically
I can't wait till we get all the Europe stuff! And I'm all in on Apple, i just don't gratuitously defend their nonsense (upvoted by the way, im not the naysayer. You raise an important defense that needs to be dismantled)
Holy shit. Is.. is that a fucken rational thinker?
on the Internet‽
The Obstacle is the Way bro
Honestly + selfishly, it makes more sense to uvote for visibillity if you have a child comment you want to be seen so you can
Its just straightup the most correct approach in my view
It's not nearly as smooth as having the native solution though, which I believe is what this lawsuit is about. For example, the feature that lets you upload images to iCloud and delete them off your phone, but still have them visible in your photo app comes to mind.
You should take a peak at Google photos does on iOS. It’s basically Apple’s photos app, but all connected to Google’s cloud services. You can autobackup, keep stuff mirrored, keep stuff only in the cloud, only local, a mix of both, etc. I don’t know if it’s smart enough to automatically clear up local space if you don’t interact with a file very often, but I don’t see why a 3rd party developer couldn’t build that.
So they seem to be arguing that Apple isn't spending enough money to offer a free service it never had to offer because reasons.
I mean from the article it seemed like not being able to backup completely to different cloud platforms was the bigger issue
I read this article, because it's absurd to make a class action lawsuit about the free tier remaining at only 5GB. Apple has the right to give as much or little away for free.
Instead, the lawsuit is about something a lot more lawsuit worthy: The fact that you cannot backup your iPhone with other cloud service providers, providing an unfair advantage to iCloud. This should definitely be illegal.
Additionally, can we have a lawsuit over excessive storage markups (that are over ~2x the gross margin of the device)? This is also basically pure profit.
Did they previously offer more for free then drop it? I only have a single IPad that's intentionally not cloud synced just because I'd rather host things local, so I'm not in a place to judge average use, but even my Google account has less than 5GB in it.
It’s been 5gb for 0.99c for more than a decade.
It’s easy to hit 5gb when backing up photos and videos, or message threads that contain photos/video. The space is also shared with the non-backed up data.
Even Google gives you three times that.
But then again, you never know when the service you rely on will be canned by Google.
How many Instant Messengers have we(yes, I'm an Android user) been through now?
Do you remember when they allowed you to combine SMS and Chat messages into the same app and you would see them merged together in one long chat? Those were the days.
I have half a dozen messengers on my phone, none of them from Google.
I stopped using Google apps after they dropped SMS integration with whatever version of their integrated messaging system in about 2010.
I can't trust their products to continue to work, so I just won't use them.
LOL I was just talking about that. SMS integration was amazing.
Microsoft does 5gb too though
Is it shared with gmail? Or will it be separate? Because my gmail is always 14gb+ full.
Unfortunately it's shared.
Your Gmail sits on Google’s servers, just like IMAP email accounts. If you go to a brand new device and log in with your gmail account info, it will download from Google.
It really sucks what they do. I have an iPad for the kids and it always complains about storage being full and offers me the "upgrade". I will never pay them that $1.
Edit: "downvotes" don't mean shit on Lemmy, and I'm getting them because I dislike how apple is fucking people side ways. I wasn't gonna say this, but it really is very hard to feel bad for the apple sheep. No matter what apple does they scream "give it to me harder, daddy cook". Stop being loyal to corporations, not a single corporation on earth gives a shit about you. Literally zero.
Disabling iCloud backup should eliminate the upgrade nag. Can tap iCloud (the profile photo) at the top of Settings, and start unchecking. You might have enough space to still back up e.g. contacts, so you shouldn’t have to disable everything.
I'll check that out. Thank you.
does it still have the "we noticed you are running out of space, turn on cloud to free up device space" nag? I haven't used apple in years but that one drove me crazy
Good question, it might!
Go to backup settings and turn off photos and messages. You only need essentials like calendar, notes, health, passwords etc.
Thank you. Photos are already off. I'll turn off messages, too. Storage gets filled because my 6 year old daughter loves to make videos of herself pretending she's making YouTube videos showing her toys😂
I think a lot of Apple stuff is paid astroturfing. Its so obvious, like a domestic abuse victim or a chump who doesn't realize they're being screwed. It would be fun to watch if they were any other ecosystem inhabitant than the same one I use predominantly
Stockholm syndrome is what it is.
This actually