Good. We have seen with apartheid South Africa that isolation of a rogue terrorist nation is the only non military way of returning it to the community of somewhat lawful nations. No surprise that Israel was a close ally of apartheid South Africa
Meanwhile, you can't become a citizen in Maldives unless you are Muslim. Hypocritical fucks
I don't see the hypocrisy. A country that mandates Islam is exactly the kind of country I would expect to expel Jews.
There were economic sanctions, there was a huge wave of divestment, but all that was pointed at the institutions of the state - not at its citizens ( like this unfortunate decision of Maledives).
Edit: how much sense would it make blocking black citizens of SA from visiting your country -simply because they live under apartheid?
"how much sense would it make blocking black citizens of SA from visiting your country -simply because they live under apartheid?"
What kind of tortured logic is this? Nobody is saying we're going to block the Palestinians from traveling anywhere. Only the perpetrators, not the victims.
Nobody is saying we’re going to block the Palestinians from traveling anywhere. Only the perpetrators, not the victims.
Well that is pitty, because they've just blocked 2 millions of Palestinians living in Israel proper - Demographics of Israel, wikipedia
I'm fed up with that deceitful oft repeated piece of misinformation that's commonly used to deny that Israel is an Appartheid state:
Israel separates Nationality from Citizenship and per the Israeli constitution only Jews can have Israeli Nationality. In fact any Jew anywhere in the World is entitled to it and can quite literally travel to Israel and request to get it at the airport.
The non-Jews living in Israel you mention either have Israeli Citizenship (not Israeli Nationality, which is a different thing) or not even that because non-Jews born in the occupied Territories (which include Jerusalem and all of the West Bank of which nowadays only a tiny fraction is under Palestinian control) don't have a natural right to even just Israeli Citizenship and have to apply to get it, and it's often denied for quite arbitrary reasons.
This is why there are lots of stories of Palestinians being kicked out of houses in Jerusalem where their families have lived for several generations: even thought they were born there they are not Israeli Citizens (if I remember it correctly only around 40% that apply actually get Israeli Citizenship) and hence have no rights at all in Israel.
People fall for this sleazy "Israel has lots of Palestinians living there" crap because normal modern countries don't have such a convoluted process explicitly dividing people and the rights they get by religion and don't just deny the right to citizenship to people who have lived in what is now de facto that country's territory for generations because of having the "wrong" religion.
Depending how the Maldives is doing this (is it based on Israeli Citizenship or is it based on Israeli Nationality?) they might very well be doing it in the fairest way possible (though it will still catch many Israeli Nationals who are anti-war, even if those are a small minority in the country judging by the polls conducted on the subject).
Please read the article.
Please read what I wrote and then (re)read the Wikipedia article.
Pay special attention in that article to how it's only ever "Israeli Citizens" that is used, never "Israeli Nationals", and how the interpretation of all of it changes in light of, in Israel and unlike just about all other countries in the World, CONSTITUTIONALLY a "Citizen" is not the same thing as a "National".
Unlike the naive interpretation from people who live in rational modern countries which are not etnostates (and were Citizenship is always the same as Nationality), that article doesn't say anything at all about Israeli Nationals.
I meant
Depending how the Maldives is doing this (is it based on Israeli Citizenship or is it based on Israeli Nationality?)
It's in the article - passports!
It doesn't make any difference, since because there really aren't any supporters of Israel in this thread, you will just open on anyone you assume is one with walls and walls of text (with which I mostly agree with you) but on a topic nobody put forward and in this condescending manner that is just meant to offend people. You haven't tried to understand my argument at all, you haven't even read the bloody article, you just want to scream at somebody.
So since you are this terrible at reading - let me put it again just for you and you only, I'll try to be blunt:
The tragedy here is that Israel says in response to the 7/10 that all Gazans are guilty, they all deserve to die. That is not acceptable, that is called collective punishment. And Maledives are justifying Israels approach by doing the same. Now Israel can say:
" Look ! Maledives are also using the same principle of collective punishment / collective responsibility and the World is praising them! "They are all antisemites and they are all using "special meter" on us and different meter on everyone else:". /s
...and what is worst - in this case they have a point! This exactly what we don't need right now. They could have just banned the settlers, or they could have just banned those several settlers Biden has banned and that would be perfectly fine. This is clumsy at best - no - It's just tragically stupid. It's costing us time that Gazans don't have.
I would like to point out that for some time I've felt bad for also wrongly accusing somebody without reading it all ironically also in regard to the Gaza conflict, but you are so much worse than I am.
As I asked elsewhere, can those who are Israeli Citizens but not Israeli Nationals hold an Israeli passport?
Israel's system on this is wholly unique and I don't really know how that translates into the right to an Israeli passport since citizenship and nationality doesn't at all work there as it does in other countries.
Depending on that as well as on the distribution of wealth in Israel (the Maldives isn't a poor people tourist destination) then the number of people unjustly treated by this might be bigger or smaller (there are always some: even amongst the wealthiest Israeli Nationals - who, remember, to have nationality must be Jewish - there are some who are against what's being done in Gaza).
You should plan to spend around** $299 (MVR4,623) per day on your vacation in the Maldives.** This is the average daily price based on the expenses of other visitors
Even assuming that every tourist stays one single day that would be 3.3 million dollars. And I'd wager most tourists stay longer than that
So, admittedly, $3.3 Million is low-balling it, and that the real figure is probably something like $20 Million, assuming that each tourist stays ~1 week and spends $299/day as you have quoted.
But these numbers don't mean anything in a vacuum. More context is needed to understand the actual impact of this decision.
The Maldives have a GDP of $6.55 Billion. Assuming that this costs them $20 Million in tourism revenue, that's only a 0.3% drop in GDP. The annual fluctuation in GDP is ±9%. The impact of banning Israeli tourists is less than a rounding error on the Economy of the Maldives.
An entire economy is made up of many parts. 0.3% doesn't sound like much but with big numbers it adds up.
A sacrifice of 20 million dollars is more than just symbolism.
The problem here is that $20 million isn't a "big number" compared to $6.55 Billion.
Believe whatever you want, I can't stop you, but you are objectively wrong.
Let's pretend the Maldives is America. Would you say that America losing 0.3% of its entire GDP over a boycott is "symbolic?
holy shit the difference in comments between here and reddit's world news on the same post is insane. Everyone there is a zionist.
What’s the vibe in there? Cause I don’t like the idea of punishing regular civilians for the government’s actions, so I’m not a fan of this decision. But I’m not gonna come in here and say something like “omg why though, Israel’s the victim!!!1”
Israel doesn't have regular citizens because of their national draft. Just complicit people, settlers, and people who don't have to serve because Israel is racist.
Hey now, don't forget about draft dodgers
I would support those people getting individual exceptions. Also the people who are excluded from the draft because of the racism.
Maybe it would be easier for me to say that I just think everybody who ever served in the IDF should be banned from other countries.
What about the settlers that use aliyah?
Any settler that leaves Israel should be arrested by any civilized country. Treat them the same as terrorists.
Im referring to aliyah which enables any jewish person to claim citizenship and housing in israel.
Are they settlers? Then they aren't in Israel and they should be considered international criminals.
I don't think you understand my point. Im talking about aliyah. It's a process that enables any jewish person born/converted to claim citizenship and housing in occupied palestine (israel). Some of them hold dual citizenships and live in their native places. How is this even legal? Aren't the citizens to blame for exploiting knowing damn well they are occupied land.
Wow, what an incredibly bad take. Kudos, I’m genuinely impressed
I think it's a bad take to pretend that people who served in the military and can still be called up for service are regular civilians. Or civilians whatsoever really.
LETS GET THIS MAN DRAFTED BOIS!
so no Israeli draft-dodgers are allowed in the Maldives.
Everyone there is a bot.
Reddit just banned everyone commenting negatively about Israel or its inhabitants
Reddit is mostly literal bots. Not figurative ones, literal ZionistGPT bots jerking eachother off.
And I was only coming to say that the bloke in the thumbnail looks like he's in one of those cardboard cutouts that kids stick their faces through to get their photo taken
Worldnews really is overrun by Zionist bots. If you go to some other subreddits a lot of them seem to still have real humans who are saying so. But it seems like a lot of other subreddits are being taken over by bots at this point too.
It must be astroturfed
Took a peek in worldnews recently and yeah it's bad. I don't remember it being so bad the last time Gaza was bombed. It's like they cleaned out worldnews for the IPO or something.
I can't seem to find it. Was it deleted?
Reddit has been taken over by US government trolls and bots.
All Israeli’s have to do military service and they get a bonus afterwards that they often use for travel. Thailand was full of Israeli kids when I went. Would be awesome if Thailand did the same.
Some of them come to India too and from what I've heard, they're pieces of shits.
It's funny how often in these threads people mask off with their antisemitism so clearly
Jew here, and travelled through SE Asia. Israelis have always had a terrible reputation in parts of India and Thailand because after completing military service of 2-3 years, these kids get a lump sum before heading off to careers or university. They spend that money on booze and drugs and get off their faces before heading home to start their lives properly, and this is true of the Israeli Arab kids who serve too, as they are also no longer under the watchful eye of their parents or the military.
It's not uncommon for youth hostels in Thailand not to allow Israelis in groups to stay there, with signage saying so. Always "Israelis", never "jews". I saw a lot of this backpacking maybe 8 years ago.
So what you're saying is that hate speech against people because of their ethnicity or religion is off-limits, but hate speech against people because of their national origin is perfectly fine?
Sounds shitty.
Amen. People will downvote us for calling it out, but this is absolutely bigtory on display.
I mean, Fuck Israel, they are committing Genocide. Let's get that out of the way, I don't stand for what Israel is doing at all.
But everyone deciding that every single Israeli is a "piece of shit" is just making broad discriminatory statements against people because of their Religion, Ethnicity, or National Origin. They aren't "criticizing Israel", they are spewing hatred about Israelis and Jews in retaliation for what Israel is done.
Fuck those people. The same kind of assholes who attacked Arab Americans following 9/11, because they decided that if they were mad enough, they could hurt whoever they wanted, and as long as some part of their victim's identity was tangential to the issue they were mad about, they were justified in doing it.
Yeah it's everyone else's fault to notice the bullying done by your thugs.
Chutiya.
Yep I've seen reports on their little town in India and how they've been awful to the natives.
Send them back to Israel so they can murder more Gazans.
The constitution declares Islam as the state religion of the Maldives and states that all Maldivian nationals are required to be Sunni Muslims.[13] It is illegal in the country to proselytize any religion other than Islam, and advocate for secularism or the separation of church and state. Apostasy and atheism are also outlawed and those who identify as or accused of being apostates or atheists are punishable by death by Maldivian law (though unenforced) and are often subject to vigilante violence or attacks with little or no consequences for perpetrators by the authorities.
...
Defamation and Speech "contrary to the tenets of Islam" is illegal.
...
As the state partially practices Sharia law in some matters, homosexuality is illegal. The punishment for men is nine months to one year imprisonment, or 10 to 30 lashes. The punishment for women is nine months to one year of house arrest.[3]
Atleast we didn't kill 30000 civilians. Shut the fuck up.
This is Lemmy: the Shariah law as practiced by the Maldives doesn't apply here,
nor did the Maldives fight a war for its very existence on the first day of its independence.
Maybe shouldn't try to create a country on someone else's land? Refugees are supposed to assimilate into the culture, not create a separate ethnostate and expel the natives.
The Jewish presence in Palestine is older than the Muslim.
For that matter, those in the Maldives were Buddhists before they became Muslim.
Instead of blaming the victims of European antisemitism which kind of necessitated Zionism, you might wag your finger at Europe too for this.
Lol they don't practice shit about any religion. Their government is corrupt as hell. What Shariah law? Have you been there? They have prostitutes from every nation on earth on their exclusive beach resorts for the wealthy
Since the adoption of the 2008 constitution citizens and anyone wishing to become a citizens are required by law to nominally follow Sunni Islam[176] which would make Maldives a 100% Muslim country in theory.
Yes I visited the maldives in 2018 I think and I'm not a Maldevi citizen nor sunni muslim. They're a hypocrite corrupt government.
Some countries either lean on the Western side while ignoring Eastern atrocities, some others call out Western neocolonialism while ignoring China's and Russia's imperialist crimes, and there are a bunch of countries that are mostly led on the rightful moral principle that genocide is bad whoever does it, so they condemn it back and forth.
Then there is apparently fucking Hungary, who supports the trampling of human rights, genocide and dead children whoever does it. For context, this vote happened while the government was openly fighting with the US ambassador over geopolitics and Hungarian government corruption, and the population is divided on the genocide with no clear lean either way.
That’s about Israel settlement building
I can find maps with colors too.
Show me the map of countries who have condemned Israel for genocide.
I don't have a map handy, but South Africa's case was supported by the 57-member Organization of Islamic Countries along with many others so your "193" number is obviously way off.
Great news
Have they banned Russians?
Unfortunately not.
I say that not because I hate Russians.
I hate the Russians that fly to Maldives and act like they own the place and are constantly rude to Maldivians, other tourists and leave trash behind when they leave.
Funny thing, I made the same question in reverse once, and the crowd on here descended on me for "whataboutism".
Tbh it is a fine line in many cases, and there is no right answer. Every country can decide who to let in, and others have the right to form their opinion on it. I disagree with this one, as I would also disagree with banning all Russians, but I would highly support the targeted sanctioning and travel restriction of diplomats, politicians and oligarchs of both countries.
Careful. As I understand, this is considered “whataboutism” and isn’t really allowed to be discussed. Even though it’s a fantastic point to make with regards to the events happening elsewhere.
Yeah, how come Israel gets all the economic sanctions and Russia gets nothing?? Oh wait...
First of all, you can be as opposed to Israel as you want, as it relates to Israel being a militarized state committing genocide. A lot of these comments are just dripping with hatred for Israelis and Jews, solely because of their Religion/Ethnicity/National Origin, and without regard to their actual stance on the Israel/Palestine conflict. Lots of stuff here stooping to the level of bigotry - a pattern that I am noticing from a lot of people on the left who seem to think that their opposition to Israel makes no rhetoric, no matter how hateful, off-limits.
Second of all, the Maldives are are Muslim Theocracy that openly criminalizes the free exercise of any religion other than Sunni Islam. The war in Gaza is excellent cover for removing Jews from their country, and anyone thinking that they are actually taking a humanitarian stance here, please DM me I have a bridge for sale.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
COLOMBO, Sri Lanka (AP) — The Maldives government will ban Israelis from the Indian Ocean archipelago, known for luxury resorts, as public anger in the predominantly Muslim nation rises over the war in Gaza.
The president’s office said Sunday that the Cabinet decided to change laws to prevent Israeli passport holders from entering the country and to establish a subcommittee to oversee the process.
It said President Mohamed Muizu will appoint a special envoy to assess the Palestinian needs and to launch a fundraising campaign.
Israel’s Foreign Ministry spokesperson Oren Marmorstein said in response that the Foreign Ministry recommends Israelis avoid any travel to the Maldives, including those with foreign passports, and those currently there to consider leaving.
Nearly 11,000 Israelis visited Maldives last year, which was 0.6% of the total tourist arrivals.
The original article contains 133 words, the summary contains 133 words. Saved 0%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
To be honest we don't have the laws required to enforce this. This will all depend on how Parliament vote
Based
More countries should do the same.
This should be used by other countries too. Like Thailand!
After seeing that women get arrested for wearing a bikini in the Maldives a few years ago I’m not sure why anyone goes there anyways.
Let Israel finish the fight!
This is good from an economic POV too. Israeli tourists are generally chesp and racist. Just ask India.
Is this not an inherently racist opinion? And not all Israelis support their government's actions. Let's not stoop to the same level as bigots on any side.
One manager at a hotel makes a claim that an indeterminate number of Israeli tourists (as few as 1) stole an indeterminate amount of property (as little as nothing) from his hotel.
And you've decided that this represents the failed moral character of 10 million Israelis?
I am really sick and tired of watching people decide that, because they oppose Israel's attack against Gaza, that they are permitted to spew hatred about Israelis and Jews because of their Religion/Ethnicity/National Origin.
Focus your energy on the actual enemies here: Netanyahu and the IDF. There are millions of Israelis and Jews that oppose what Israel is doing, and this constant stream of hateful rhetoric is keeping these allies at arms length from the rest of the movement, because too many people refuse to have clarity of target.
sorry but this is actually stupid. don't blame the israeli people over the actions of the government - especially when a large number of israelis are protesting against the government.
How is this different from sanctions on Russia? Those mostly harm civilians, and are intended to create political pressure. There's not much anyone can do to only harm Netanyahu.
sanctions on russia don't ban russians from traveling.
Yes they do: quite a number of countries banned Russians from non-essential travel. That's why there's so many of them in Georgia and Serbia: draft-dodging isn't essential travel, apparently.
Well you see, Sanctions are, well, Sanctions. And this? This isn't sanctions. The Maldives are an Islamic Theocracy, and they already hate Israel for reasons that have nothing to do with this conflict. Not surprising that the Country that criminalizes being Jewish would expel Israelis.
As a Ukraine-supporter, I oppose most of the sanctions against Russia too.
How about sanctioning the Russians occupying Crimea?
I support forcing their soldiers out.
So you don't mind the Russians that have moved onto land they stole from Ukraine?
not if they stole it.
Sooooo you support sanctions against all israeli colonists then? Aka all israelis.
not the ones who didn't steal land or buy stolen land.
Though that might apply to those in Manhattan, California, and Australia.
Israeli government is elected, and enjoys widespread public support. Which means the Israeli public share the responsibility of this genocide.
This is ubelievably dumb. Israel is not even a democracy. Yes, they may have some democratic laws, but they are also 70+ years under the state of emergency. There isn't free press. Israelis are getting locked up for protesting for peace, for refusing to fight in a apartheid war, even for liking facebook comments supporting Palestine.
Aplying collective punishment / collective responsibility under such circumstances (as generally under any circumstances) not only doesn't support the plight of palestinian refugees, it goes against it!
I understand their (Maledives) motivation, but this is not the way. You can't punish all Palestinians for the crimes of the few, nor can you punish all Israelies for the crimes of the many.
Go ahead and downvote me.
Go ahead and downvote me.
I got you bro
Thank you! I don't think I've been this proud for getting down voted lately. And I don't blame you - I hope your motivation is same as mine - to end the tragedy that is currently happening in Gaza ASAP. IMO - You just aren't terribly adult about it, but I trust that you will get there <3
I wasn't going to downvote until I saw the attempt at reverse psychology. Just make your point, don't try to manipulate the results.
I expected to get downvoted, I got downvoted, I am not angry. Reverse psychology? Manipulate? Are you 100% sure you are not talking about yourself?
I get your point, but I don't think the ones who protest are the ones vacationing in a luxury island. I assume majority of them are rich or spoilt assholes.
That is exactly the point - I don't think one can use terms like "majority" and "assume" to justify collective punishment, because that is exactly what the Israelis are doing right now.(But I am obviously wrong )
The other options (as I see them are to do nothing and let this happen without comment, or try to specifically target settlers. But I don't think the Maldives are out of line banning all Israelis considering how widespread Israeli settlers are (close to 10% of the population) and the shit they do to Palestinians....
Wait, I thought it was bad to punish civilians for the actions of their government/military.
I fail to see the equivalency between "murder a bunch of people" and "a bunch of people are no longer allowed in a luxury resort".
False equivalencies seem to be the stock-in-trade of the anti-Palestinian trolls these days.
Imagine thinking I'm anti-Palestinian because I don't support a blanket ban on Israeli travel. The state of the "discourse" nowadays...
One small country in the middle of the ocean is a 'blanket ban on Israeli travel?'
Banning someone from your resort island is the same sort of punishment of civilians as killing them?
The state of discourse indeed...
Banning someone from your resort island is the same sort of punishment of civilians as killing them?
No, but punishing population for the actions of their government is always bad, always unacceptable, and specially when the country isn't even democratic like Israel never was. For one thing - this ban does not only affect Israelis, but also 2 millions of Palestinians who live in Israel proper. Wikipedia - Demographics of Israel
And yet your post implied some sort of equivalency.
Also, I notice you didn't say anything about the "blanket ban" part.
And yet your post implied some sort of equivalency.
Equivalency - I have to confess English isn't my first language and I am not sure I understand what you mean specifically/ in what context. Would you please care to explain?
As for the blanket ban - while it wasn't my comment, I don't find it unreasonable - how would you describe a rule advertised as punishing extremist Zionism that also punishes both post Zionists and anti Zionists all the same?
If the ban is on Israeli Nationality it only afects Israeli Jews as per the Israeli Constitution only Jews (in fact, any Jew no matter were born) have a right to Israeli Nationality.
If it's per Israeli Citizenship (which, in Israel - almost uniquelly in the World - is separate from Nationality), then you do have a point and even then, most Palestians born in the Occupied Territories (which include Jerusalem) do not have Israeli Citizenship as they have no natural right of birth to it and must apply, with most applications being denied.
That often used "there are 2 million Palestinians in Israel" cherry-picked piece of information (usually used to deny that Israel is an Appartheid state, so congrats for using it differently here) is nowhere near the full information and presented without the rest is deceitful as such presentation relies on people thinking it's like in their own country so "being a citizen in Israel must mean the same as my their own country" when in fact Israel is very, VERY special in that regard and segregates people by religion using that unique separation of Nationality and Citizenhip.
You haven't read the article. It says Israeli passport holders.
Can those who are not Israeli Nationals hold an Israeli Passport?
Banning someone from your resort island is the same sort of punishment of civilians as killing them?
It actually is the same sort of punishment, yeah - the difference is one of degree. Kicking you in the shin once and punching you in the face fifty times are both "assault". It's concerning that most here don't understand that.
You still haven't addressed that 'blanket ban' thing you said. After lamenting the poor quality of discourse.
I like how you completely dodged what I just said. What is there to address about the blanket ban? A country is banning all travel from another country. It doesn't get more "blanket" than that.
Wow dude, you just keep saying dumb things
Ah, and now the dishonesty. That is not what people mean when they say a blanket ban on travel and I'm sure you're not stupid, so you know that.
There's a reason that the AP article linked above doesn't use that term in this case.
What is there to address about the blanket ban?
I don't know, how about something like, "okay, I didn't mean 'blanket ban,' that was wrong of me."
But, of course, this is the internet and admitting your wrong is the worst thing ever, so I won't be holding my breath.
Haha what? They're banning all Israeli passport holders. Do you have some special definition of "blanket ban" that you manipulate to suit your purposes?
Called it.
Uhh yeah OK, congrats on winning this argument based on your made-up definition of "blanket ban". Go ahead and celebrate with Donald Trump, who wanted to enact the same against muslim-majority coountries.
What about punishing civilians for the actions of civilians? Close to 10% of the population are illegal settlers, so it makes sense to target the class of people doing the illegal actions.
I would 100% support targeted bans/sanctions against illegal settlers.
Good. We have seen with apartheid South Africa that isolation of a rogue terrorist nation is the only non military way of returning it to the community of somewhat lawful nations. No surprise that Israel was a close ally of apartheid South Africa
Meanwhile, you can't become a citizen in Maldives unless you are Muslim. Hypocritical fucks
I don't see the hypocrisy. A country that mandates Islam is exactly the kind of country I would expect to expel Jews.
There were economic sanctions, there was a huge wave of divestment, but all that was pointed at the institutions of the state - not at its citizens ( like this unfortunate decision of Maledives).
Edit: how much sense would it make blocking black citizens of SA from visiting your country -simply because they live under apartheid?
"how much sense would it make blocking black citizens of SA from visiting your country -simply because they live under apartheid?"
What kind of tortured logic is this? Nobody is saying we're going to block the Palestinians from traveling anywhere. Only the perpetrators, not the victims.
Well that is pitty, because they've just blocked 2 millions of Palestinians living in Israel proper - Demographics of Israel, wikipedia
I'm fed up with that deceitful oft repeated piece of misinformation that's commonly used to deny that Israel is an Appartheid state:
This is why there are lots of stories of Palestinians being kicked out of houses in Jerusalem where their families have lived for several generations: even thought they were born there they are not Israeli Citizens (if I remember it correctly only around 40% that apply actually get Israeli Citizenship) and hence have no rights at all in Israel.
People fall for this sleazy "Israel has lots of Palestinians living there" crap because normal modern countries don't have such a convoluted process explicitly dividing people and the rights they get by religion and don't just deny the right to citizenship to people who have lived in what is now de facto that country's territory for generations because of having the "wrong" religion.
Depending how the Maldives is doing this (is it based on Israeli Citizenship or is it based on Israeli Nationality?) they might very well be doing it in the fairest way possible (though it will still catch many Israeli Nationals who are anti-war, even if those are a small minority in the country judging by the polls conducted on the subject).
Please read the article.
Please read what I wrote and then (re)read the Wikipedia article.
Pay special attention in that article to how it's only ever "Israeli Citizens" that is used, never "Israeli Nationals", and how the interpretation of all of it changes in light of, in Israel and unlike just about all other countries in the World, CONSTITUTIONALLY a "Citizen" is not the same thing as a "National".
Unlike the naive interpretation from people who live in rational modern countries which are not etnostates (and were Citizenship is always the same as Nationality), that article doesn't say anything at all about Israeli Nationals.
I meant
It's in the article - passports!
It doesn't make any difference, since because there really aren't any supporters of Israel in this thread, you will just open on anyone you assume is one with walls and walls of text (with which I mostly agree with you) but on a topic nobody put forward and in this condescending manner that is just meant to offend people. You haven't tried to understand my argument at all, you haven't even read the bloody article, you just want to scream at somebody.
So since you are this terrible at reading - let me put it again just for you and you only, I'll try to be blunt:
The tragedy here is that Israel says in response to the 7/10 that all Gazans are guilty, they all deserve to die. That is not acceptable, that is called collective punishment. And Maledives are justifying Israels approach by doing the same. Now Israel can say:
" Look ! Maledives are also using the same principle of collective punishment / collective responsibility and the World is praising them! "They are all antisemites and they are all using "special meter" on us and different meter on everyone else:". /s
...and what is worst - in this case they have a point! This exactly what we don't need right now. They could have just banned the settlers, or they could have just banned those several settlers Biden has banned and that would be perfectly fine. This is clumsy at best - no - It's just tragically stupid. It's costing us time that Gazans don't have.
I would like to point out that for some time I've felt bad for also wrongly accusing somebody without reading it all ironically also in regard to the Gaza conflict, but you are so much worse than I am.
As I asked elsewhere, can those who are Israeli Citizens but not Israeli Nationals hold an Israeli passport?
Israel's system on this is wholly unique and I don't really know how that translates into the right to an Israeli passport since citizenship and nationality doesn't at all work there as it does in other countries.
Depending on that as well as on the distribution of wealth in Israel (the Maldives isn't a poor people tourist destination) then the number of people unjustly treated by this might be bigger or smaller (there are always some: even amongst the wealthiest Israeli Nationals - who, remember, to have nationality must be Jewish - there are some who are against what's being done in Gaza).
The logic isn't tortured.
Very nice. It's not just a symbolic boycot
A symbolic boycott is important. They still picked a side in this mess.
"Go back to Israel, draft-dodger. Murder more Gazans. Allāh be praised."
Surprisingly high.
0.6% sounds exactly like a symbolic boycott.
As the Maldives is a tourist resort 0.6% of the most major income is pretty big
https://www.budgetyourtrip.com/maldives
Even assuming that every tourist stays one single day that would be 3.3 million dollars. And I'd wager most tourists stay longer than that
So, admittedly, $3.3 Million is low-balling it, and that the real figure is probably something like $20 Million, assuming that each tourist stays ~1 week and spends $299/day as you have quoted.
But these numbers don't mean anything in a vacuum. More context is needed to understand the actual impact of this decision.
The Maldives have a GDP of $6.55 Billion. Assuming that this costs them $20 Million in tourism revenue, that's only a 0.3% drop in GDP. The annual fluctuation in GDP is ±9%. The impact of banning Israeli tourists is less than a rounding error on the Economy of the Maldives.
An entire economy is made up of many parts. 0.3% doesn't sound like much but with big numbers it adds up.
A sacrifice of 20 million dollars is more than just symbolism.
The problem here is that $20 million isn't a "big number" compared to $6.55 Billion.
Believe whatever you want, I can't stop you, but you are objectively wrong.
Let's pretend the Maldives is America. Would you say that America losing 0.3% of its entire GDP over a boycott is "symbolic?
holy shit the difference in comments between here and reddit's world news on the same post is insane. Everyone there is a zionist.
What’s the vibe in there? Cause I don’t like the idea of punishing regular civilians for the government’s actions, so I’m not a fan of this decision. But I’m not gonna come in here and say something like “omg why though, Israel’s the victim!!!1”
Israel doesn't have regular citizens because of their national draft. Just complicit people, settlers, and people who don't have to serve because Israel is racist.
Hey now, don't forget about draft dodgers
I would support those people getting individual exceptions. Also the people who are excluded from the draft because of the racism.
Maybe it would be easier for me to say that I just think everybody who ever served in the IDF should be banned from other countries.
What about the settlers that use aliyah?
Any settler that leaves Israel should be arrested by any civilized country. Treat them the same as terrorists.
Im referring to aliyah which enables any jewish person to claim citizenship and housing in israel.
Are they settlers? Then they aren't in Israel and they should be considered international criminals.
I don't think you understand my point. Im talking about aliyah. It's a process that enables any jewish person born/converted to claim citizenship and housing in occupied palestine (israel). Some of them hold dual citizenships and live in their native places. How is this even legal? Aren't the citizens to blame for exploiting knowing damn well they are occupied land.
South Korea or Brazil also doesn't have regular citizens? How about Switzerland? List of 85 countries that had mandatory military services in 2023.
Wow, what an incredibly bad take. Kudos, I’m genuinely impressed
I think it's a bad take to pretend that people who served in the military and can still be called up for service are regular civilians. Or civilians whatsoever really.
LETS GET THIS MAN DRAFTED BOIS!
so no Israeli draft-dodgers are allowed in the Maldives.
Everyone there is a bot.
Reddit just banned everyone commenting negatively about Israel or its inhabitants
Reddit is mostly literal bots. Not figurative ones, literal ZionistGPT bots jerking eachother off.
And I was only coming to say that the bloke in the thumbnail looks like he's in one of those cardboard cutouts that kids stick their faces through to get their photo taken
Worldnews really is overrun by Zionist bots. If you go to some other subreddits a lot of them seem to still have real humans who are saying so. But it seems like a lot of other subreddits are being taken over by bots at this point too.
It must be astroturfed
Took a peek in worldnews recently and yeah it's bad. I don't remember it being so bad the last time Gaza was bombed. It's like they cleaned out worldnews for the IPO or something.
I can't seem to find it. Was it deleted?
Reddit has been taken over by US government trolls and bots.
All Israeli’s have to do military service and they get a bonus afterwards that they often use for travel. Thailand was full of Israeli kids when I went. Would be awesome if Thailand did the same.
Some of them come to India too and from what I've heard, they're pieces of shits.
It's funny how often in these threads people mask off with their antisemitism so clearly
Jew here, and travelled through SE Asia. Israelis have always had a terrible reputation in parts of India and Thailand because after completing military service of 2-3 years, these kids get a lump sum before heading off to careers or university. They spend that money on booze and drugs and get off their faces before heading home to start their lives properly, and this is true of the Israeli Arab kids who serve too, as they are also no longer under the watchful eye of their parents or the military.
It's not uncommon for youth hostels in Thailand not to allow Israelis in groups to stay there, with signage saying so. Always "Israelis", never "jews". I saw a lot of this backpacking maybe 8 years ago.
So what you're saying is that hate speech against people because of their ethnicity or religion is off-limits, but hate speech against people because of their national origin is perfectly fine?
Sounds shitty.
Amen. People will downvote us for calling it out, but this is absolutely bigtory on display.
I mean, Fuck Israel, they are committing Genocide. Let's get that out of the way, I don't stand for what Israel is doing at all.
But everyone deciding that every single Israeli is a "piece of shit" is just making broad discriminatory statements against people because of their Religion, Ethnicity, or National Origin. They aren't "criticizing Israel", they are spewing hatred about Israelis and Jews in retaliation for what Israel is done.
Fuck those people. The same kind of assholes who attacked Arab Americans following 9/11, because they decided that if they were mad enough, they could hurt whoever they wanted, and as long as some part of their victim's identity was tangential to the issue they were mad about, they were justified in doing it.
Yeah it's everyone else's fault to notice the bullying done by your thugs.
Chutiya.
Yep I've seen reports on their little town in India and how they've been awful to the natives.
Send them back to Israel so they can murder more Gazans.
~(/s)~
wp:Human rights in the Maldives
...
...
Atleast we didn't kill 30000 civilians. Shut the fuck up.
This is Lemmy: the Shariah law as practiced by the Maldives doesn't apply here,
nor did the Maldives fight a war for its very existence on the first day of its independence.
Maybe shouldn't try to create a country on someone else's land? Refugees are supposed to assimilate into the culture, not create a separate ethnostate and expel the natives.
The Jewish presence in Palestine is older than the Muslim.
For that matter, those in the Maldives were Buddhists before they became Muslim.
Instead of blaming the victims of European antisemitism which kind of necessitated Zionism, you might wag your finger at Europe too for this.
Lol they don't practice shit about any religion. Their government is corrupt as hell. What Shariah law? Have you been there? They have prostitutes from every nation on earth on their exclusive beach resorts for the wealthy
Have you been there, anon?
wp:Maldives
Yes I visited the maldives in 2018 I think and I'm not a Maldevi citizen nor sunni muslim. They're a hypocrite corrupt government.
okay.
I hope you enjoyed your visit. 🙂
Can they block Americans as well?
Also the 193 other countries in the UN…….
What are you talking about?
Some countries either lean on the Western side while ignoring Eastern atrocities, some others call out Western neocolonialism while ignoring China's and Russia's imperialist crimes, and there are a bunch of countries that are mostly led on the rightful moral principle that genocide is bad whoever does it, so they condemn it back and forth.
Then there is apparently fucking Hungary, who supports the trampling of human rights, genocide and dead children whoever does it. For context, this vote happened while the government was openly fighting with the US ambassador over geopolitics and Hungarian government corruption, and the population is divided on the genocide with no clear lean either way.
That’s about Israel settlement building
I can find maps with colors too.
Show me the map of countries who have condemned Israel for genocide.
I don't have a map handy, but South Africa's case was supported by the 57-member Organization of Islamic Countries along with many others so your "193" number is obviously way off.
Great news
Have they banned Russians?
Unfortunately not.
I say that not because I hate Russians.
I hate the Russians that fly to Maldives and act like they own the place and are constantly rude to Maldivians, other tourists and leave trash behind when they leave.
Funny thing, I made the same question in reverse once, and the crowd on here descended on me for "whataboutism".
Tbh it is a fine line in many cases, and there is no right answer. Every country can decide who to let in, and others have the right to form their opinion on it. I disagree with this one, as I would also disagree with banning all Russians, but I would highly support the targeted sanctioning and travel restriction of diplomats, politicians and oligarchs of both countries.
Careful. As I understand, this is considered “whataboutism” and isn’t really allowed to be discussed. Even though it’s a fantastic point to make with regards to the events happening elsewhere.
Yeah, how come Israel gets all the economic sanctions and Russia gets nothing?? Oh wait...
Jesus, the comments here are deranged.
First of all, you can be as opposed to Israel as you want, as it relates to Israel being a militarized state committing genocide. A lot of these comments are just dripping with hatred for Israelis and Jews, solely because of their Religion/Ethnicity/National Origin, and without regard to their actual stance on the Israel/Palestine conflict. Lots of stuff here stooping to the level of bigotry - a pattern that I am noticing from a lot of people on the left who seem to think that their opposition to Israel makes no rhetoric, no matter how hateful, off-limits.
Second of all, the Maldives are are Muslim Theocracy that openly criminalizes the free exercise of any religion other than Sunni Islam. The war in Gaza is excellent cover for removing Jews from their country, and anyone thinking that they are actually taking a humanitarian stance here, please DM me I have a bridge for sale.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
COLOMBO, Sri Lanka (AP) — The Maldives government will ban Israelis from the Indian Ocean archipelago, known for luxury resorts, as public anger in the predominantly Muslim nation rises over the war in Gaza.
The president’s office said Sunday that the Cabinet decided to change laws to prevent Israeli passport holders from entering the country and to establish a subcommittee to oversee the process.
It said President Mohamed Muizu will appoint a special envoy to assess the Palestinian needs and to launch a fundraising campaign.
Israel’s Foreign Ministry spokesperson Oren Marmorstein said in response that the Foreign Ministry recommends Israelis avoid any travel to the Maldives, including those with foreign passports, and those currently there to consider leaving.
Nearly 11,000 Israelis visited Maldives last year, which was 0.6% of the total tourist arrivals.
The original article contains 133 words, the summary contains 133 words. Saved 0%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
To be honest we don't have the laws required to enforce this. This will all depend on how Parliament vote
Based
More countries should do the same.
This should be used by other countries too. Like Thailand!
After seeing that women get arrested for wearing a bikini in the Maldives a few years ago I’m not sure why anyone goes there anyways.
Let Israel finish the fight!
This is good from an economic POV too. Israeli tourists are generally chesp and racist. Just ask India.
Is this not an inherently racist opinion? And not all Israelis support their government's actions. Let's not stoop to the same level as bigots on any side.
In the UAE they steal from hotels
One manager at a hotel makes a claim that an indeterminate number of Israeli tourists (as few as 1) stole an indeterminate amount of property (as little as nothing) from his hotel.
And you've decided that this represents the failed moral character of 10 million Israelis?
I am really sick and tired of watching people decide that, because they oppose Israel's attack against Gaza, that they are permitted to spew hatred about Israelis and Jews because of their Religion/Ethnicity/National Origin.
Focus your energy on the actual enemies here: Netanyahu and the IDF. There are millions of Israelis and Jews that oppose what Israel is doing, and this constant stream of hateful rhetoric is keeping these allies at arms length from the rest of the movement, because too many people refuse to have clarity of target.
sorry but this is actually stupid. don't blame the israeli people over the actions of the government - especially when a large number of israelis are protesting against the government.
How is this different from sanctions on Russia? Those mostly harm civilians, and are intended to create political pressure. There's not much anyone can do to only harm Netanyahu.
sanctions on russia don't ban russians from traveling.
Yes they do: quite a number of countries banned Russians from non-essential travel. That's why there's so many of them in Georgia and Serbia: draft-dodging isn't essential travel, apparently.
Well you see, Sanctions are, well, Sanctions. And this? This isn't sanctions. The Maldives are an Islamic Theocracy, and they already hate Israel for reasons that have nothing to do with this conflict. Not surprising that the Country that criminalizes being Jewish would expel Israelis.
As a Ukraine-supporter, I oppose most of the sanctions against Russia too.
How about sanctioning the Russians occupying Crimea?
I support forcing their soldiers out.
So you don't mind the Russians that have moved onto land they stole from Ukraine?
not if they stole it.
Sooooo you support sanctions against all israeli colonists then? Aka all israelis.
not the ones who didn't steal land or buy stolen land.
Though that might apply to those in Manhattan, California, and Australia.
Israeli government is elected, and enjoys widespread public support. Which means the Israeli public share the responsibility of this genocide.
How to look stupid on the world stage.
This is ubelievably dumb. Israel is not even a democracy. Yes, they may have some democratic laws, but they are also 70+ years under the state of emergency. There isn't free press. Israelis are getting locked up for protesting for peace, for refusing to fight in a apartheid war, even for liking facebook comments supporting Palestine. Aplying collective punishment / collective responsibility under such circumstances (as generally under any circumstances) not only doesn't support the plight of palestinian refugees, it goes against it!
I understand their (Maledives) motivation, but this is not the way. You can't punish all Palestinians for the crimes of the few, nor can you punish all Israelies for the crimes of the many.
Go ahead and downvote me.
I got you bro
Thank you! I don't think I've been this proud for getting down voted lately. And I don't blame you - I hope your motivation is same as mine - to end the tragedy that is currently happening in Gaza ASAP. IMO - You just aren't terribly adult about it, but I trust that you will get there <3
I wasn't going to downvote until I saw the attempt at reverse psychology. Just make your point, don't try to manipulate the results.
I expected to get downvoted, I got downvoted, I am not angry. Reverse psychology? Manipulate? Are you 100% sure you are not talking about yourself?
I get your point, but I don't think the ones who protest are the ones vacationing in a luxury island. I assume majority of them are rich or spoilt assholes.
That is exactly the point - I don't think one can use terms like "majority" and "assume" to justify collective punishment, because that is exactly what the Israelis are doing right now.(But I am obviously wrong )
The other options (as I see them are to do nothing and let this happen without comment, or try to specifically target settlers. But I don't think the Maldives are out of line banning all Israelis considering how widespread Israeli settlers are (close to 10% of the population) and the shit they do to Palestinians....
Wait, I thought it was bad to punish civilians for the actions of their government/military.
I fail to see the equivalency between "murder a bunch of people" and "a bunch of people are no longer allowed in a luxury resort".
False equivalencies seem to be the stock-in-trade of the anti-Palestinian trolls these days.
Imagine thinking I'm anti-Palestinian because I don't support a blanket ban on Israeli travel. The state of the "discourse" nowadays...
One small country in the middle of the ocean is a 'blanket ban on Israeli travel?'
Banning someone from your resort island is the same sort of punishment of civilians as killing them?
The state of discourse indeed...
No, but punishing population for the actions of their government is always bad, always unacceptable, and specially when the country isn't even democratic like Israel never was. For one thing - this ban does not only affect Israelis, but also 2 millions of Palestinians who live in Israel proper. Wikipedia - Demographics of Israel
And yet your post implied some sort of equivalency.
Also, I notice you didn't say anything about the "blanket ban" part.
Equivalency - I have to confess English isn't my first language and I am not sure I understand what you mean specifically/ in what context. Would you please care to explain?
As for the blanket ban - while it wasn't my comment, I don't find it unreasonable - how would you describe a rule advertised as punishing extremist Zionism that also punishes both post Zionists and anti Zionists all the same?
If the ban is on Israeli Nationality it only afects Israeli Jews as per the Israeli Constitution only Jews (in fact, any Jew no matter were born) have a right to Israeli Nationality.
If it's per Israeli Citizenship (which, in Israel - almost uniquelly in the World - is separate from Nationality), then you do have a point and even then, most Palestians born in the Occupied Territories (which include Jerusalem) do not have Israeli Citizenship as they have no natural right of birth to it and must apply, with most applications being denied.
That often used "there are 2 million Palestinians in Israel" cherry-picked piece of information (usually used to deny that Israel is an Appartheid state, so congrats for using it differently here) is nowhere near the full information and presented without the rest is deceitful as such presentation relies on people thinking it's like in their own country so "being a citizen in Israel must mean the same as my their own country" when in fact Israel is very, VERY special in that regard and segregates people by religion using that unique separation of Nationality and Citizenhip.
You haven't read the article. It says Israeli passport holders.
Can those who are not Israeli Nationals hold an Israeli Passport?
It actually is the same sort of punishment, yeah - the difference is one of degree. Kicking you in the shin once and punching you in the face fifty times are both "assault". It's concerning that most here don't understand that.
You still haven't addressed that 'blanket ban' thing you said. After lamenting the poor quality of discourse.
I like how you completely dodged what I just said. What is there to address about the blanket ban? A country is banning all travel from another country. It doesn't get more "blanket" than that.
Wow dude, you just keep saying dumb things
Ah, and now the dishonesty. That is not what people mean when they say a blanket ban on travel and I'm sure you're not stupid, so you know that.
There's a reason that the AP article linked above doesn't use that term in this case.
I don't know, how about something like, "okay, I didn't mean 'blanket ban,' that was wrong of me."
But, of course, this is the internet and admitting your wrong is the worst thing ever, so I won't be holding my breath.
Haha what? They're banning all Israeli passport holders. Do you have some special definition of "blanket ban" that you manipulate to suit your purposes?
Called it.
Uhh yeah OK, congrats on winning this argument based on your made-up definition of "blanket ban". Go ahead and celebrate with Donald Trump, who wanted to enact the same against muslim-majority coountries.
I fail to see the link between the people murdering Palestinians (The IDF) and the people no longer allowed in the Maldives (Civilians).
IMO the equivalency is in how you've chosen those individuals that don't deserve to live / that are no longer allowed to enter...
What about punishing civilians for the actions of civilians? Close to 10% of the population are illegal settlers, so it makes sense to target the class of people doing the illegal actions.
I would 100% support targeted bans/sanctions against illegal settlers.