A reminder to move to smaller instances for a better experience
A reminder that this constant advice people blindly parrot to install and flock to smaller instance has now created something like 1000 new servers in 50 days that are poorly run and already going offline as quickly as they went online.
Github Issue 2910 is the kind of PostgreSQL problems that the developers ignored for months and people still defend the developer choices to have the code doing real-time counting of every single comment and post for numbers nobody needs to needs done in real-time.
PostgreSQL is voodoo to this project, they do everything they can to avoid going to !postgresql@lemmy.ml community and asking for help, learning 101 about how to fix their SQL TRIGGER logic like Github Issue 2910 spelled out June 4.
I know you are salty about how you are getting treated over at GitHub, but you should look at it objectively, Blaze is clearly advocating that people join top instances that's not lemmy.world or lemmy.ml, not nobody instances that only have 1-2 users. They certainly aren't going offline as quickly as they come online.
I know you are salty about how you are getting treated over at GitHub
No, it isn't about my personal treatment. It's about the cultist attitude you have towards Lemmy and the leaders without any ability to see what they are doing behind the scenes with the code. I know cults and religious faith is how many people enjoy the world.
A 2-line SQL TRIGGER removal takes about minutes to fix. It was crashing the entire site constantly. They sat by and asked for donations of money.
A 2-line SQL TRIGGER removal takes about minutes to fix.
Then go fix it and open a PR
Then go fix it and open a PR
Do you think I am the one who created the mistake or something? That I have access to the servers to install it?
It's so odd to me that you respond this way, as if it was my coding mistake. It isn't even me who opened issue, that is GitHub "makotech222" - is that your answer to them?
I don’t believe they’re insinuating that you were the one that created the mistake. Rather, that you seem to be knowledgeable of the specific problem and may be the one most capable of fixing it. The two line fix may be obvious to you, but may not to the main Lemmy devs. Until phriskey got involved, a lot of db tuning was being avoided (they’re responsible for most of the big db improvements this version).
a lot of db tuning was being avoided
and I did not understand or properly relate to that project culture. It had been that way for years and I should have "read the room" "go with the flow".
No, it's everything to do about your personal treatment, stop deceiving yourself. Just because you claim you have autism doesn't immediately grant you the right to be entitled. You don't get your way so you spam create multiple issues to call out the developers, and you expect people to believe it isn't personal for you?
If you aren't happy with the Lemmy developers, fork the project, run your own fork, convince others to use your fork. It's a FOSS world, no one has to do what you say, even if you claim to be autistic.
Telling someone "you claim you have autism" is extremely ableist to all disabled people.
Just because you claim you have autism doesn’t immediately grant you the right to be entitled.
Entitled to what? free money? discount at the car wash? I see you like claiming things that I never said, who talked about deserving things or being entitled?
perhaps you do not grasp that autism impacts my writing and the level of pain I have in communicating, even this very comment. It causes me huge pain and suffering to have my brain touch the keyboard and compose English sentences.
Maybe you lack compassion for my suffering and you are a bully.
Entitled to what? free money? discount at the car wash? I see you like claiming things that I never said, who talked about deserving things or being entitled?
No, I never claimed that you said you were entitled. I claimed that you like using your autism as an excuse.
perhaps you do not grasp that autism impacts my writing and the level of pain I have in communicating, even this very comment. It causes me huge pain and suffering to have my brain touch the keyboard and compose English sentences.
See? Why make yourself suffer?
Maybe you lack compassion for my suffering and you are a bully.
Why do you deserve my compassion? You are literally hurting yourself by participating in discussions even when you claim, in your own words, "autism impacts my writing and the level of pain I have in communicating, even this very comment. It causes me huge pain and suffering to have my brain touch the keyboard and compose English sentences.". If it hurts so much, get offline.
I claimed that you like using your autism as an excuse.
you used the word entitled, or are you confused? Now you are saying it is an excuse?
It's a fact, it impacts my every word I'm typing on this keyboard, every single English word I speak, read, write, type, hear. It causes bullies and hate-filled people who hate human beings to flock to you to try to "correct" everything about your existence and behavior. Like you are doing.
Do you know the history of Autism in Nazi Europe where it started to get documented? Do you know how humans treat those with mental differences? Is it all your game to imply that love and kindness is shown towards those who speak and behave oddly?
If it hurts so much, get offline.
that is all you car about, not having to encounter words you disagree with, to drive off human person you don't like. It's sad to see the popularity of people like you, Donald Trump likes to harm others and gets big crowds too.
If you willingly hurt yourself, or your brain, conversing online, then you shouldn't be using it as an excuse to get your point across. The advice was given, if it hurts, stop doing it, is that really that hard to explain?
is that really that hard to explain?
to you, yes. As I don't think in flippant attempts to trivialize human beings and reduce things to simpleton answers for something they have struggled with each and every day of their life. It sure is easier to dehumanize me as you keep doing.
writing online is about the only thing in my life that I can do, despite the constant pain, and I'm near death. Once the writing goes, there is zero left, I'm not even really surviving.
Simon Baron-Cohen; July 1, 2003; "The Essential Difference: Male And Female Brains And The Truth About Autism", page 146 quote:
"Another man with AS described his life in a very graphic way: 'Every day is like climbing Mount Everest in lead boots, covered in molasses. Every step in every part of my life is a struggle.'"
If it helps clarify things for you, the person you are arguing with doesn't understand what you are trying to say with regards to how autism informs your interactions with others online and is arguing against a point you aren't trying to make. They are however entirely too dug into arguing against that point to easily and effectively get them to understand what you are actually saying and respond to that without the baggage of already deciding that they entirely disagree with you to the point they think they are entitled to be rude to you because you don't agree with them.
The conversation you are in in this thread is more difficult than it ought to be and while some element of that may be due to your autism, there's also a lot of failures from the other side of it making the conversation harder than it should be. At this point you are not being treated kindly and respectfully by the other person (because they are frustrated and handling it poorly.) Better to just disengage with them and shrug it off as a misunderstanding and bad behaviour not of your making as best as you are able to do so.
convince others to use your fork.
Reddit convinced people to use Reddit. Elon Musk convinces people to stay on Twitter. Donald Trump convinces people to vote for him.
Just maybe the audience level of knowledge about the topics of media is the problem. You. Maybe you are actually attracted to Lemmy because it crashes, just like people flock to Donald Trump because he does bad things. And people flock to HDTV news instead of reading a book on a subject.
It's odd but not unexpected that you think the problem is code and does not involve the audience being attracted to certain characteristics. I hear McDondl's has a lot of customers.
What is a SQL trigger and why is it taking down servers? Do you know how to fix it?
I think 0.18.3 fixed some of it, but there are likely some more performance issues related to PostgreSQL lurking in Lemmy.
A TRIGGER in SQL is a logic that executes based on other activity.
Lemmy uses them so that when you create a new comment or post, it executes code to insert tracking record for votes and comments on a post. One of the things Lemmy does is called site_aggregates, and there was a bug where it was updating the counts for 1500 servers instead of just the one server. That got fixed in 0.18.3
Deleting accounts in lemmy was causes crashes. I'm not sure if that has been entirely resolved. These things are all kind of hidden in the background of the code, so a lot of developers overlooked that there were problems in them.
Isn’t there a logstream they could tap into to have a separate async tally going on instead of doing it synchronously? Probably a lot of things could be delegated to an async job performed when server load allows?
I've had to really adjust my thinking with this project. They want to do things a very particular way and it goes back 4 years, and a lot of the mistakes are just now getting noticed/attention. For example, comments were not deleting on all the servers, I was testing that after comparing server copies of the same communities and found they were not the same. It just didn't seem to have a lot of people spot-checking it for mistakes. I am learn to just "go with the flow" and face that it's more like how musicians would approach design and running a project. Media-focused systems can be that way.
Going with the flow is both ways. It’s a community project so everyone’s opinion matters, especially those who contribute PRs.
A reminder that this constant advice people blindly parrot to install and flock to smaller instance has now created something like 1000 new servers in 50 days that are poorly run and already going offline as quickly as they went online.
I am always advocating for any of the top 25 instances that are not Lemmy.world or Lemmy.ml
For the rest of your post, I don't know what that has to do with people aggreating on LW.
For the rest of your post, I don’t know what that has to do with people aggreating on LW.
aggregation refers to the lemmy database tables, site_ aggregates, community, person. The SQL TRIGGER logic lemmy_server uses that has been the source of so many crashes the past 60+ days.
Even if the SQL was top notch, it would not be a good thing for 50% of the active users to be on a simple instance.
Just makes it easier to take down by any potential attacker.
Shit dude, you still going on about the GitHub issues?
You are really fucking stupid and it shows.
Shit dude, you still going on about the GitHub issues?
Is it your cult loyalty to the pro-China project leaders speaking? The authoritarianism that you honor? Do you have blind faith in machine code and are unable to see the level of effort they make to avoid the performance critical code in the application?
Did their words "high performance" on GitHub mesmerise you into believing it without actually installing the Rust code and looking at their performance your own self?
Sorry to tell you this, but you need to stop being overly obsessed over the Lemmy project. It is not healthy for you. Go do something better with your life. With the amount of enthusiasm you are showing, I bet you can find the cure for cancer.
This is the appropriate time and place to discuss the codebase and project management approach of the Lemmy FOSS project. If you don't like hearing people you disagree with talk about those things, you should be going to do something else rather than rudely trying to make them shut up. Even from the perspective that you just want to challenge this user about the appropriateness of how they are expressing their opinions and frustrations, you are going too far and behaving inappropriately yourself with all the personal attacks. Just leave it alone and if they are saying things that you feel need to be addressed just report and move on.
If you don’t like hearing people you disagree with talk about those things, you should be going to do something else rather than rudely trying to make them shut up. Even from the perspective that you just want to challenge this user about the appropriateness of how they are expressing their opinions and frustrations,
I have nothing against anyone who wants to bring up issues, but the way one brings up the issues should be taken into account. Anyone who tries to get their point across by spamming GitHub issues automatically loses points in my book.
Is this acceptable in your book? Are you defending this action? It certainly is not acceptable in mine, and the reason why I called the user out on it.
I understand if you take offense at the way I came across the user in question, but when they repeatedly bring up their pain as a response, it is only logical that I ask them to refrain from actions that cause them pain. It's one thing to have to go through pain for basic life-sustaining tasks, like eating, drinking, or even physiotherapy, but if your brain hurts typing on a social media forum, which you repeatedly refuse to cease, then you have no sympathy from me. Lemmy, or even Reddit for that matter is not a basic living requirement.
you are going too far and behaving inappropriately yourself with all the personal attacks.
What personal attacks?
Just leave it alone and if they are saying things that you feel need to be addressed just report and move on.
Likewise, if you have an issue with what I said, go ahead, report and move on. If I broke any instance rules, I'm sure the responsible admins will be swift in delivering the appropriate response.
I bet you can find the cure for cancer.
If the cure to cancer were found, like a virus to prevent deaths from COVID-19, sites like Twitter and Lemmy would spread lies and disinformation and tell people to avoid authentic facts and science.
Is it the pro-China stance of the developers that gives you blind faith in how their SQL TRIGGER code works or Rust logic?
Sorry to tell you this,
I doubt your sincerity and think this is a social tactic you use, lies. Insincerity.
It is not healthy for you
The lies coming out of Elon Musk's Twitter and the lies from Cambridge Analtica on Facebook make me ill. The constant people I meet in the USA who praise oil consumption and deny climate change science makes me sick. I didn't stubble into Lemmy because I was healthy with crowds of people who flock to anything in "meme format" and praise authoritarian politicians and businessmen.
Based on how humanity behaved during the pandemic, with all the denial of a virus that a microscope can deonstate as fact, I don't think it is possible to be healthy unless you choose to self-deceive and believe the memes and advertisements.
If the cure to cancer were found, like a virus to prevent deaths from COVID-19, sites like Twitter and Lemmy would spread lies and disinformation and tell people to avoid authentic facts and science.
Maybe, maybe not. It's up to the reader to differentiate between facts and tales. I don't see how that is relevant.
Is it the pro-China stance of the developers that gives you blind faith in how their SQL TRIGGER code works or Rust logic?
No, I believe the project is in need of a lot of polish. However, the way you act, makes me hope the polish does not come from you.
I doubt your sincerity and think this is a social tactic you use, lies. Insincerity.
Okay.
The lies coming out of Elon Musk’s Twitter and the lies from Cambridge Analtica on Facebook make me ill. The constant people I meet in the USA who praise oil consumption and deny climate change science makes me sick. I didn’t stubble into Lemmy because I was healthy with crowds of people who flock to anything in “meme format” and praise authoritarian politicians and businessmen.
Have you considered turning off your computer, and looking out the window? Looks like the problems you are facing can be solved rather easily. There is neither Twitter nor Facebook out the window.
It’s up to the reader to differentiate between facts and tales. I don’t see how that is relevant.
Perhaps you do not see it is relevant, or that you are being insincere on the topic
Humanity track record is to avoid truth and favor mythology. I can suggest Carl Sagan's 1995 book on the subject.
Have you considered turning off your computer, and looking out the window?
Yha, all the people around me are staring into their Smartphones and attacking humanism on social media like you are.
There is neither Twitter nor Facebook out the window.
You apparently can not see them with their Smartphone while driving and doing practically anything.
You quoted it in your reply, but you obviously ignored this: "The constant people I meet in the USA who praise oil consumption and deny climate change science makes me sick."
Meet, in person, IRL, "outside the window" as you call it. You clearly do not care for reality of humanity and what is actually happening because of media like Twitter, Reddit, Lemmy.
Yha, all the people around me are staring into their Smartphones and attacking humanism on social media like you are.
I was just reading through y'all's conversation and this piece stuck out to me. I read a lot of loneliness, hurt, and isolation in your comments, yo, and then I read this piece. Man, do I get that. That reminded me of me throughout high school and college; I didn't feel like anyone saw what I saw. Which was pain. And if I'm being honest, I was seeing others' pain, but I was mostly seeing my pain. I met my best friend late in college, and she was a god-send because she got me. She saw their pain too. And more importantly, she saw my pain and honored it, and that was such a relief.
When I feel alone and isolated, I usually feel like withdrawing more. Since her, I've found that that's usually a sign that I actually need to connect. I need to find others that get me. Not as another avenue to vent my frustrations and anger and pain, but as an avenue for joy, as an avenue for remembering that I am more than just my pain.
That's a lot of shit off the top of my head, and I dunno if you'll resonate with any of it because I only know you as far as a few comments online. But wanted to write it in case it would resonate with you or anyone else.
Take care of yourselves, y'all.
And if I’m being honest, I was seeing others’ pain, but I was mostly seeing my pain.
I find everyone is in pain, and often covering it up. I gave up covering my pain in 2009 and haven't turned back. But a lot of people want to deny the suffering in the world and do not want to see authentic pain. They want memes, superhero comics etc.
It is sad to me that humanity can not organize a mass funeral for those who died in the pandemic. There is so much hate and pain between people, online and offline. People seem to show trauma towards even basic medical science facts in 2023.
Take care of yourselves, y’all.
Thank you and love to all, have a good weekend
Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree; I wish we were better at honoring our united pain and each other's pain. As you and I both know, that's not the case on a grand scale, and why I think it's so important for us to build and find our smaller communities that do.
Have a good weekend too, yo!
If the cure to cancer were found, like a virus to prevent deaths from COVID-19, sites like Twitter and Lemmy would spread lies and disinformation and tell people to avoid authentic facts and science.
They would try, but they would fail. COVID-19 is history now, because of vaccination, despite the best efforts of anti-vax death cultists to stop it.
I find anti-science is going as Carl Sagan predicted it could in his 1995 book.
I do not meet people who would consider a microscope a useful tool to look at the virus. Their faith is in information on TV or websites, not even considering that the virus can be directly observed. I saw almost nobody asking for a TV show to show microscope footage and taking a test from a person and demonstrating it can be seen. Virus has been on Earth for millions of year, the microscope is the new thing they aren't facing.
There is a popularity aspect of misinformation. Sagan teaches about that too.
There were pictures and diagrams of the virus. There was even art made in the virus' likeness.
I've never seen a claim that COVID-19 was caused by anything other than an observable physical object. There have been many claims that it's a manmade bioweapon and that vaccines are ineffective and harmful, but I've never heard of someone claiming it's an intangible curse from God or something.
There were pictures and diagrams of the virus. There was even art made in the virus’ likeness.
But there were people who couldn't seem to associate that it comes from friends and neighbors and that they could spread it, and seem to think it is all about a laboratory or 'people die in hospitals'.
There have been many claims that it’s a manmade bioweapon
Yes, exactly, in a laboratory, not in friends and neighbors who carry it around and spread it peer to peer.
The same thing with computer virus, many users I have had to remove virus on their computer claim it magically jumped on their computer. When computers were not even networked. You often had to go track down who they got a floppy disk from.
That's some backwards logic, then. The whole point of bioweapons is that, once introduced into the population you're trying to exterminate, it spreads among them peer-to-peer.
A reminder that this constant advice people blindly parrot to install and flock to smaller instance has now created something like 1000 new servers in 50 days that are poorly run and already going offline as quickly as they went online.
And this will always.. always be the biggest problem in the FOSS community.
"I dont like X, so I'm going to leave and make my own version of X"
So userbases get spread thin, manpower gets spread thin, developers get spread thin, and the user experiences degrades for everyone until it pushes them back to the bullshit websites and products.
This is exactly what federation is meant to solve: power in numbers without the centralization. Is that so hard to understand?
Sometimes I question why people not in favor of the decentralization are commenting on a Fediverse platform.
Why not go to Tildes, Squabbles or another centralized alternative? There is plenty of fish in the sea.
This is another big problem in the FOSS
"If you dare offer valid criticism, then why are you even here? get out and go somewhere else!"
Your criticism is nonsensical. It's literally criticizing the purpose of the project.
Oh dear, are you gonna start another tissue shortage with all these tears?
Pot calling the kettle black. I offer criticism of your criticism and you throw a hissy fit. Poor child.
Wow, I havent gotten a genuine, unironic "No, U!" since like kindergarten.
Wooosh
Your answer didn't justify lemmy.world being treated the same as Lemmy as a whole. It's just a bunch of people who don't understand federation.
For the rest of your post, I don’t know what that has to do with people aggreating on LW.
And, factually, the project leaders telling everyone to create 1000 new instances and shutting down sign-up on Lemmy.ml caused more performance problems.
They had a bug in their PostgreSQL TRIGGER logic where 1500 instances were updating + 1 comment and +1 post counting instead of WHERE site_id = 1, a single database row. So each new Lemmy server that went online made the table larger and crashes more frequent on lemmy.ml
The amount of disk writing by lemmy was ignored
They've neither told people to create 1000 new instances, nor have they closed signups on lemmy.ml.
Again, you should really stop revolving your entire life over one GitHub issue, and go touch grass.
nor have they closed signups on lemmy.ml.
You know what is easy to do, lie and make-up facts. It is so much easier to bullshit to be popular around here.
The irony in you saying that, and posting second-hand recounts by other people. They aren't closed. If they are closed, you wouldn't even be able to submit a registration application.
Man reading this thread, you're kind of a dumbass. Especially if you think rewording your answer here from the last reply to reframe to current time period vs what was being talked about would throw off the scent
They've not closed sign ups. Requiring approval of sign ups, is not closing sign ups. How am I wrong?
Currently no. But they had, which was clearly stated as it was talking on the past.
If they are closed, you wouldn’t even be able to submit a registration application.
Show me in the code. Because I have closed the registration on my Lemmy server, and it does not turn off the "Sign Up" link or HTML input fields. But you sure like lies and deception
The developers of Lemmy seem to make every effort they can to avoid using Lemmy itself to discuss their !postgresql@lemmy.ml learning 101. They have made massive mistakes in SQL TRIGGER logic that they avoided to such a degree that their social motives are in question now. Github Issue 2910 was opened June 4, almost a month before the Reddit API deadline, and they ignored it. Just like they hang out on Matrix Chat and don't use Lemmy their own self to discuss code.
They have cultivated a kind of voodoo attitude towards PostgreSQL where people using Lemmy won't actually scrutinize the Rust code or PostgreSQL tuning parameters.
I mean having a bunch of new servers is not a problem. Just choose one that's been up for a while and more stable.
But each additional row in site_aggregates table was causing the instability itself. The SQL code had major flaws. Adding more servers actually made Lemmy crash more.
I'm afraid that as long as you have to go to github and run such scripts for these things, Lemmy will stay a nerd-only place.
Hopefully it gets integrated into the website at some point
I learnt my lesson to have multiple accounts after vlemmy
That was my main. The instance vanished faster than cotton candy being held by a raccoon standing in a pond.
Oddly specific, but very accurate
It's funny, at this point I don't feel like I even have a main account. I just randomly pick an instance every time I go Lemmying
Same, I have accounts on lemmy.ml, lemmy.world, and Kbin.social. I'm just waiting for a good app to be compatible with Kbin. Right now all the apps coming out are geared toward Lemmy.
I don't remember Kbin having an API, so that might explain why
I'm trying to pick ones with meaningfully different aims so that I can try to keep some sort of separation in my head. Otherwise I'd quickly lose track of what conversation having where, with whom and why.
I forgot that I had a lemmy.ee account and set up my own instance a few days ago while lemmy.world was down.
Right now it’s just a free Google cloud VM instance and a $3/year domain. It was super easy to set up with Lemmy-Easy-Deploy and I’ll never have an issue with going down. I’ll either be busy looking through Lemmy, or busy trying to figure out why it went down!
Is there a readily available tool that can export/import community subs? I have two accounts on different instances but would like them to have to same subscriptions
Lemmy.one, my instance of choice, has been down since Thursday - just a reminder that smaller instance isn't always the solution. Having a few solid account choices on multiple instances is the way to go.
It’s a bit frustrating though. If I didn’t know better about the fediverse, I would’ve thought Lemmy in general was down, with no heads up or somewhere to see what’s going on.
Lemmy.dbzer0.com is pretty stable, both in terms of release timing/server uptime, and also in terms of not flooding your feed with "politically instable" instances on both sides. Avoid the echo chambers.
One might argue that such a selection is, itself, an echo chamber.
That's my favorite instance as well but I'm not sure what you mean by politically instable on both sides
Quoting myself from a previous post:
First of all, it's really fine to stay on LW for now, no need to rush anything. But if at some point you have some time for this, then read the following.
So, to pick your instance, you can have a look at https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list, filter by "1m" to see what are the most popular ones. As you can see, with a 27433 monthly users, Lemmy.world is by far the most popular, which is why you might experience some issues from time to time.
You should have a look at the next instances on the list.
Short story: lemm.ee, sh.itjust.works, lemmy.one, sopuli.xyz and reddthat.com are solid choices.
You are looking at instances with quite a lot of people (the more people help with filling your "All" feed), just not the most populous one (lemmy.world), the original one (lemmy.ml), and instances that are too specific, either due to country or specific focus.
Long story:
::: spoiler spoiler
lemmy.ml is the original insance, also quite crowded, not really the best choice
lemm.ee can be nice, you can have a look at it and see how fast it is for you. The admin communicates a lot and is very helpful.
sh.itjust.works had some rough time in the last few days. You might also not like the name, that's okay.
beehaw.org does not federate with the big instances, so if you go there, you will be in their own space. It can a valid choice, but please have a look at their guidelines first, they tend to moderate a lot. Can work for you, or not.
feddit.de, lemmy.ca, discuss.tchncs.de, feddit.uk, aussie.zone are country specific instances, so probably not interesting to you if you are not from there
lemmynsfw is a NSFW instance, probably not the one you want to move to
programming.dev is an instance focused on programming
lemmy.blahaj.zone is a pro queer instance
:::
.
To migrate your settings (including subscriptions and blocked instances), you can use that script: https://github.com/CMahaff/lasim
I think there is a huge misconception many people have that a larger instance is more likely to stay around, but due to the nonlinear costs involved in hosting fediverse instances this is not true.
Basically there is a sweet-spot around a few thousand (~2500) members where costs are low enough for a single admin paying things out of their own pocket long term is possible, but also enough members willing to occasionally donate or contribute otherwise to cover costs.
To be honest, I know it's a controversial view, but I would almost like to see Ruud and the LW admins block registrations for a while, along with a communication "Have a look at those other instances, they are well managed, you can access all of Lemmy just as well from there"
I'm not looking forward to 5 years from now, where instances like this are the mastodon.social of federated reddit-likes. As much as they should block registrations, I don't think they will. ...but I have a hat on stand by, just in case I need to eat it.
I think they're stuck in a vicious circle, their server costs scale with size but new users are way more likely to donate. Users that have already donated feel like they've done their bit for a while, and that's if they're still around and engaged in a few weeks. Very few people want to donate monthly, subscription style.
My personal controversial view is people should put more faith in well-run self-hosted instances. It's a much more sustainable way to run a Fediverse server and self-hosted doesn't have to mean amateur hour. Just because an instance is cloud hosted doesn't mean it's well configured or secure either.
I have way more resources at my disposal than the vast majority of cloud hosted instances, for a tiny fraction of the cost. lemm.ee for example is very well run but has to put up with a 100kb image size limit because of cost-driven space constrains.
Self hosting is also closer to the spirit of what decentralization is supposed to mean - your server ultimately belongs to your host.
Interesting, I wasn't really thinking about this, I guess most of admins nowadays just prefer the convenience (including scalability) of a VPS.
I mean, with 27k monthly active users, they are more prevalent that Mastodon.social.
The following instances are so much smaller it's almost comical.
If anyone's looking, my instance is open for everyone and I plan on supporting it long-term. https://lemmings.world
LASIM author here, ironically on my own alt: Just an FYI that support for Lemmy 0.18.3 is not yet out, but keep an eye out for it soon (I have it working on a branch but I need to test it more before release).
This is the first breaking API change since it's creation, so here are the limitations:
Old version (0.1.2) will only support API 0.18.1 and 0.18.2
New version (0.2.0) will only support 0.18.3 (and above until there are more breaking API changes)
Profiles downloaded with 0.1.2 (and below) will automatically be converted to work with 0.2.0.
So that all means:
You can use the old LASIM to migrate between 0.18.2 Lemmy instances
You can use the new LASIM to migrate between 0.18.3 Lemmy instances
You can use the old LASIM to download from an 0.18.2 instance then use the new LASIM to upload to a 0.18.3 instance
You cannot use the new LASIN to download from a 0.18.3 instance and then the old LASIM to upload to a 0.18.2 instance (unless you are comfortable doing some manual work editing the JSON file so "old LASIM" understands it).
This will be true of every release with breaking API changes.
Thank you for the heads up! You might want to add that to the ReadMe on your Github
Removed "and above" from page and instead added a note to always get the latest version if your version isn't listed as supported explicitly.
Great, thank you!
Thanks for all your hard work on this. I’ve used lasim to transfer my subscriptions to my other accounts on other instances when the lemmy.world downtimes happened last week. I love the portability of the tool.
Thanks for your kind words, I'm glad it has helped you!
Fwiw, sh.itjust.works is a horrible name, but a great instance lol.
What's funny though, I'm getting beehaw posts in my all feed since yesterday. No idea if they've refederated with us, or if it's an artifact of connect (my app of choice), or what,
Interesting. You are still on the list of their blocked instances, so I'm not sure: https://beehaw.org/instances
Must be some kind of weirdness with the app then. Thanks for looking at that!
The DB migration at the end of this upgrade is significant, I was surprised how long it took when I upgraded my instance. Lots of room for things to go wrong considering the size of their DB.
That makes sense, especially how large the instance is.
Just curious, how long did the migration take for you? Half an hour?
10-15 minutes here on a 32gb database.
It took about the same for me.
Interesting, thanks
Took me the whole day. The new migrations require PostgreSQL version 15, and my Akkoma and Lemmy are using a shared database server of version 13. First shut down both services, then update Debian from 11 to 12, PostgreSQL from 13 to 15 and after all this, redeploy Lemmy to start the migrations. The new Lemmy queries use more RAM compared to the previous version, so the database was getting OOM and I needed to upgrade to a bigger instance.
Not fun, but everything works now and is stable.
Interesting, thanks
Just make a second account, the one I run, lemmy.myserv.one is so underutilized its a joke. Smaller instances like mine basically have to beg for users and the server goes unused while bigger instances struggle under the constant traffic.
Because using random tiny servers is worse in other ways. With all due respect, nobody knows you and they don't know how committed you are or how much time you have. When your server gets DDoSed or hits a bug causing data loss, what will you do? Do you have the technological know-how to recover and quickly? If your server suddenly grew and it became more expensive to run, how does anyone know if you will keep paying the bills? If Lemmy has a bad zero day, will you upgrade quickly?
There's no need to answer these questions. I'm not actually asking you personally. But these are the kinds of questions that users have to worry about from random, small, unproven instances.
(Also, Lemmy does not favour small instances because the "all" feed, searching, and going to new communities are all better the more diverse users you have.)
Yes obviously the barrier to entry is high. But nobody knows for the big servers either since they are basically just small instances that happened to get big. Thats why lemmy.fmhy.ml just died one day due to domain seizure. End of the day all you can do is look at how long a server has been around and if it has be online a reasonable amount of time. That kind of reputation just increases slowly and nobody can make it happen faster.
I didn't know about the fmhy domain being seized. That explains why I haven't seen them around! That sucks. :(
As always, I have to ask: is there a second admin, what would happen to the instance if something happened to you tomorrow (which I really wish will not!)
The Vlemmy.net disaster is still fresh in people's mind
Ultimately I am the one paying the bill currently so if I die nobody elses credit card is being charged.
In terms of other admins, this is actually happening. Some smaller instances like mine are in the process of setting up a sharing admin work between instances so that if someone is on holiday, the instance still has an admin who can login. This was only just started and is in the process. We have to create a lot of documentation and basic stuff to get it fully functional where another admin can login and fix something. Its not at that stage yet and will be a couple more weeks before it is. We did a test last night where another instance admin (boulder.ly) could connect to my instance via ssh but without documentation on what to do and check anything more than the basics of rebooting or restarting something isnt going to happen. Eventually we will get it to what to do if site has a critical vulnerability or is being attacked but not ready yet. Its a work in progress unfortunately.
P
In terms of other admins, this is actually happening. S
That's still very good news! Hopefully this can take away some of the worry users might have
I think without some kind of "incorporation" (or whatever the tech/FOSS equivalent of that is), most of these kinds of thing will be vulnerable to issues with the owner's payment methods failing. Even with donation options available it's almost always still being used to pay to the server owner in parallel to them paying server / domain costs out of pocket (and then reimbursing themselves with the donations)
That said, I have to assume there's some way to set up some kind of automated payment option where community donations actually fill a fund that is used to pay costs directly in case the maintainer drops off the face of the earth.
It mostly depends on the legal framework of each countries.
I know in Europe a lot of FOSS non-profits are registered as such, with legal status, even sometimes tax deduction for donations.
I guess that will come in the coming months for some.
Thank you, the word "non-profit" was completely eluding my brain while writing that.
Yeah I hope a lot of the larger or more serious instances will look into that going forward, very curious to see what the landscape of all this looks like in a few months.
If Mastodon can be any indication for the future, I've seen a lot of European non-profits launch their own Mastodon instances.
Do we know what happened with vlemmy?
Not really, the guy just disappeared overnight
when I start writing this comment, the post is 47 minutes old. if I understand the linked page properly, lemmy.world has been functional (all green checkmarks) for the past 10 minutes which is the furthest back the data goes. All the other instances are all green except for lemmy.one which is all red. I am assuming that 47 minutes ago, lemmy.world had red boxes?
Maybe a different link would have explained the point better but I don't really see how a 30 minute (??) server outage during an upgrade is compelling to avoid a large instance. Are you suggesting it's better to use a server whos admins don't upgrade? If not, is there really any size of server that would meaningfully avoid this kind of occasional disruption? Seems to me that the dynamism of the environment will inevitably lead to various problems. That's part of the experience. TBH threadiverse uptime on the whole is pretty impressive for such a ragtag groups of admins and devs.
I have accounts on some smaller servers but they have their drawbacks too. Using a bigger server is more convenient because the people and content is already there. It's easier. I didn't plan to use lemmy.world but I ended up making account there to use sometimes.
I think in a year or so the situation might be different. I see the ideological point and I would like it to be true. Maybe the technology will catch up. I think it would be nice to be able to programmatically seed content, but maybe that would be obnoxious to admins.
I didn't track the timing too closely, but in the last few weeks there have been quite long disruption of service due to DDoS attacks on the largest instances.
I am personally quite tolerant towards Lemmy as a platform in its very infancy, but some other users might want to quit it due to this kind of annoyances, hence my comment about moving to a smaller instance.
the people and content is already there. It’s easier
What do you mean? You can access all of the content in the Threadiverse from whatever instance, modulo defederation, but Lemmy.world defederates quite a few instances too, so that's valid for both big and small instances.
If you are talking about the "All" feed, which will indeed be empty if you are in a 10 people instances (communities need to be subscribed by an instance member for the instance to get the community content), then it's a valid issue, and that's why I suggest people to move to one of the 24 biggest instances that are not LW or Lemmy.ml
Lemm.ee, sh.itjust.works, sopuli.xyz, reddthat.com, lemmy.one, your country instance (if it's big enough).
I'm on sopuli since a while now, and I'm very happy with the experience. 680 monthly active users, so the All feed is pretty much identical to the one on Lemmy.world, except the vey niche community I either don't care about or would already know by myself.
The biggest issue I see with having everyone on LW is that at some point the costs will be too high for the admins. It's quite a big risk, and that why I'm advocating to use smaller instances.
@Blaze as I understand it, if you are user on a small server, you only see content from communities that others on your sever have previously subbed to previously, or if you do so yourself. And then you only seen content from the moment of subscription on. There is no way to see back prior.
So if you want to use a community like !fediverse it's OK because its popular and there will be prior subs. but if you are interested in !rockingchairrepair you will miss all prior discussion. Am I incorrect?
Also in practice, from my experiments, there seem to be inconsistencies in how even this works.
When I mean a small server, I mean one of the top 20, which at least a few hundred users.
As I said elsewhere, with a few hundreds users, the chance of you stumbling upon a community that nobody else subscribes to is that either the community is dead, or it just started, or indeed it is very niche.
The only case where you want discussions from the start is the last case, which is very less likely to happen once your instance reaches a few thousands users (which is the scenario most of the people hope once we spread more evenly).
Of course I have one or two other accounts, but I personally like Lemmy.world. They serve as a necessary stress test that shows the devs and admins how to optimize further, and I just like learning admin practices at this scale of a userbase from a work perspective. Plus I don't want to be on an instance so small they can't or don't know how to handle compliance stuff and evaporate if something like that comes up. Not saying I know how to handle all of those situations, that's the job of someone else at work.
I think that's one of the issues that the rest of the instances are facing to appear as trustful as LW.
LW admins have a long established reputation and experience managing Fediverse services, and provide very good transparency and a large team.
Other instances are usually nowhere close to that (some will be in the future I hope). The question I usually raise when someone start promoting their instance is "how many admins do you have?´What happens if you run under a bus tomorrow (hopefully you'll stay safe of course)? Is there a back up plan in place?"
Yeah, longevity and name recognition are why I went with sdf.org. They've been running many-user services for decades, even if the Lemmy service is pretty new.
ETA: they've been around since BBSes. I'm on a wicked nerdy old-school geek instance, and I love my local communities.
Yes, very good instance indeed
Best instance, I hope they make a firefish one.
you should see how many of these big servers were (and still are) running their instances as 'root'...
I specifically stopped trying to grow my instance to focus on security and sysadmin back-end administrative infrastructure.
Lemm.ee is amazing with a top admin
💯 checking out the admin of a Fediverse instance you want to join is a good idea. Do they communicate with their users? Do they seem responsible ? Do they have any previous experience as a network admin? Lemm.ee was an obvious yes on all counts.
The admin for vlemmy.net was the complete opposite and look how that turned out.
As I said elsewhere
There are certain things that are memory intensive and CPU intensive. If you have 10k on one server doing that it really adds up. However having them across a wide range of smaller servers, its not such a big deal.
As a user, you literally lose out on nothing not being on lemmy.world. You can partake in all the same conversations, communities and everything. In fact when lemmy.world is down, you can still see everything and when it comes back up, your posts will synchronize. There's genuinely no upside to being on lemmy.world. That's the way the system was designed.
Not sure people will listen though. I will always talk up the amazing admin I have on lemmy.tf, but it's also worth mentioning that I have a bunch of communities hosted on other instances and each and every one of them is amazing.
Definitely.
I moved to self hosting mine instance :)
Well done!
There are 63 instances according to Jerboa.
Do note that this doesn't actually account for an accurate total of Lemmy instances across the Fediverse. It is a hardcoded list of instances.
Edit: Correction, its a generated list of instances (that gets copied into Jerboa) that have a MAU amount of more than 50 as pointed out below.
That list gets generated based on the lemmy instances tracked by fediverse.observer site that have a monthly active user amount greater than 50.
Fair point! I'll update my comment to reflect that.
Oh, okay. So how many are there?
My favorite way of discovering new communities / instances on Lemmy is through Lemmyverse and it shows 1,378 instances at the time of my writing!
working fine for me , actually I have to say lemmy.world has been very stable
Perhaps I open Jerboa too often but in the last week lemmy.world has been down around 4 times for me, sometimes for a short time sometimes for much longer. When I was on lemmy.fmhy.ml it was only down once for me until their domain was seized and that was for the server upgrade.
You are not the only one, the last few weeks have been rough for LW.
That's why I suggest people to moving to other instances, I detailed the process in another comment in this thead (can't get the comment link to work for some reason)
I've found it, thanks 👍
Or just have 10 accounts so you only have downtime when your own internet is down.
And run 2 or 3 uplinks to different ISPs so that you're never offline.
And setup your own transmission dish so you can instantaneously switch to satellite if all ISPs go dark
Yes, that's called StarLink. Definitely a good option, if you make your own power.
I'm gonna make my own power! With black jack and hookers!
And their names are Deuterium and Tritium.
Nice. Where is power port on a hooker? Eh, nevermind.
I use photovoltaics, but not insular blackstart-capable battery buffered so when the grid is down I also have no power. Next year, though. Seems it's 2000 EUR minimum.
Just waiting patiently to get approved on midwest.social
Hopefully they'll get back to you soon!
Has anyone any idea what's going on with lemmy.one? It's been down for quite a while now
Probably some hiccup in upgrading to 18.3
I was on lemmy.world and had a really bad experience. The I moved to aussie.zone and its better than reddit.
Never down, commenting, posts everything feels so fast and snappy.
This is why I love small instances as well. I'm on Lemmy.today and it flies.
People seem to be super worried about an instance disappearing for some reason. It has happened to like 3 instances, we are soon 1400 instances.
Also if it would happen, how hard is it to move to another and click subscribe on communities? Takes like 20 minutes if you have many of them.
I really think all this fear is silly. Enjoy Lemmy the way it was meant to be used. Use small instances.
Smaller instances are usually worse, in my experience
The instance lemmy.kya.moe that I created my alt on performs well too if anyone else is looking for an alternative :D
I said that in a support post on lemmy.world, and got accused of pushing an agenda 🙃
Sorry to hear that. Based on this thread, it seems to become more and more of a general agreement
The major issue I see with Lemmy communities and Kbin magazines, is that they both rely on a single server to be up and running to even work. Sure, you can cross-post to several communities at once, but that generates one different thread per community. Add to that the fact that to even start to implement a single distributed thread properly cross-posted to several communities, they must take into account that a given user or server may be defederated from one community but not another - should the user not receive the message if at least one server bans the user, or should the user be allowed to receive it if at least one server allows the user to receive it?
Horizontal scaling could be better, probably a long-term improvement to be considered
Seems like a nice instance, thanks for sharing! You might want to create a local community to discuss your instance management, who you are, etc.
I thought I’d seize the opportunity for a little self promotion, haha. You know what that’s a good shout. I might just do that. Thank you :)
You are welcome, good luck with your instance!
Server errors here too.
Thanks for letting me know. The issue was related to the incorrect configuration of pctrs. It has now been resolved and the Server Error should have subsided.
Late to respond, but I was in perfectly well just now!! Great job on getting it sorted :)
Hmm, I guess it was sporadic errors, it's fine now.
Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I’ll look into it when I get a chance.
It's probably related to the redirect.
That was my initial thought, but in the end it was related to pictrs. It was throwing sever errors due to not being able to find pictrs images.
Just as a heads up, I noticed that your user avatar doesn't seem to be loading properly, and going to it directly gives a The image https://.... cannot be displayed because it contains errors. message, which also occurs with your instance's site logo as well. Pictrs might still be having some issues for you, or if you made any major configuration changes you may need to re-upload those images.
Thanks for the heads up. You're absolutely correct. To delve a bit deeper, in case you're curious: my oversight in not mounting the mnt directory for Pictrs results in a reset of both the database and manifest each time the system restarts or updates. As a result, even though the entry is stored within my instance's object storage, the corresponding manifest and database entries are missing. I will indeed need to reupload them. Once again, thanks. On a related note, I have openings in n my moderation team. If you're interested, I would genuinely welcome the opportunity to collaborate with you. Honestly, I'd welcome the chance to collaborate with all the kind-hearted individuals in this thread who took the time to test my instance. Thanks, everyone. This is what makes Lemmy special.
I appreciate the deep dive, these sorts of things always have my interest!
And of course, if there's anywhere I can help I'd certainly be happy to!
Thanks for letting me know. The issue was related to the incorrect configuration of pctrs. It has now been resolved and the Server Error should have subsided.
Got one just now, sorry to tell you ha ha
Typical. I forgot to restart, it should be all good now :)
You may need to clear your cache for the new configuration to take effect, and any broken images will be fixed sequentially.
For anyone else who experiences this Server error.. In my case, I mistakenly thought pictrs ‘s docker container was fully stateless, when configured with object storage. Long story short, it isn’t. You should still mount the mnt directory as it contains db and metadata files.
Works better indeed!
While this thread has some interesting points in it, the majority of it is chaotic and confrontational. I'm closing this, as I believe we need to have a bit of a cooldown.
This is the problem with Lemmy. It's hard for it to go mainstream. :(
Please come to lemmy.today if you like a small fast instance with no downvotes.
Also federates with all other instances.
I don't understand the appeal of no downvotes. Do you really think it's a good thing that trolls, bigots, dangerously wrong answers, general assholes, spam, etc can't be downvoted? I won't pretend downvotes aren't misused sometimes, but their existence is critical for quality control.
Edit: wait, I just saw you post in another thread as an "enlightened centrist", so I guess that explains it.
I saw it being misused on reddit a lot so I like it. It was common for people to use it as a "i disagree" button, which created a big echo chamber. I read that many people felt that there was no point even posting to a discussion since they knew they would be downvoted.
I think reddit really turned to shit, and I was hoping Lemmy could take another direction here. You can still upvote to support your opinions riding to the top without needing to downvote someone.
I understand this is a hot topic for many though. I guess it depends on what your previous experiences at reddit has been.
And also you mention the word quality control. I'm not sure the majority is some kind of a quality control. I rather hear people's opinions and make up my own mind. It would feel weird to have other people push down comments I may want to read.
Not to mention the other instances have it enabled. So anytime federated with them can downvote them, but they can't downvoted each other.
I can't seem to find the source right now (so take this with a grain of salt), but someone did check the Lemmy codebase to look into this scenario - if an instance has downvotes disabled, it won't propagate incoming downvotes.
I know that on my instance which does have downvotes enabled, if I check out any post from Beehaw (who does have downvotes disabled) there are zero downvotes on any comments as far as I can see.
Now I'm assuming this would only apply on communities hosted on that (or any downvote-disabled) instance, using my previous example if someone from Beehaw were to comment on a community originating lemmy.ml, I believe they could still have their comments downvoted since lemmy.ml would be "hosting" the comment, so to speak.
@Blaze@1984 Federating with ALL other instances isn't a good prospect either...
Thanks for sharing this.
Do you have a second admin for your instance?
It's not my instance, I just use it and like it. The instance lists only one admin. Is it common with several?
With very small instances (less than 100 members), yes, it's usually the case.
The main risk is the admin disappearing overnight, which already happened in the past for some quite big instances (vlemmy.net)
Fair point and I would assume the admin is open to sharing responsibilities once the instance grows. Can ask him. :)
Lemmy's machine-generated ORM SQL and hand-made flawed PostgreSQL TRIGGER logic is so bad, bloated. The developers on GitHub brag about "high performance". It's unbeliable.
In reality, small instances work because it has so many SQL performance problems that it mostly only is stable with little posts and comments in the database. They dd everything they could to avoid using Lemmy itself to discuss !lemmyperformance@lemmy.ml topics and hang out on Matrix Chat to avoid using the constantly-crashing servers they created.
If you go to a server with no users creating comments and posts and only has a tiny amount of data, it does crash a lot less.
Oh geez, why would the Lemmy developers want to do any kind of discussions with you over at the !lemmyperformance@lemmy.ml community, which you moderate?
I see you think that their behavior has only been since June 2, 2023 when I created my account.
The problems with them avoiding Lemmy, "eating their own dog food", to discuss !postgresql@lemmy.ml have noting to do with me. They hang out on Matrix Chat and do not ask for Rust or PostgreSQL help to their constantly crashing code.
Your style of arguing is to say I wear glasses and have "4 eyes", childish. You obviously can't go see they created a new Rust front-end on Github all on your own .... and that it was not me personally who created GitHub issue 2910 on June 4, 2023 - almost a month before the Reddit API change.,
Is it the pro-China stance that you like about the developers?
Matrix is a better discussion platform than Lemmy, as one is messaging focused, and the other is a message board. Why are you against Matrix? There's nothing to discuss on !postgresql@lemmy.world because as far as that community is concerned, it's dead.
You call me childish when you were the one that retaliated against the developers by creating rubbish issues? Ironic.
What's with you and your obsession with China? From how much are accusing people of being pro-china, you sure love being on @lemmy.ml, the instance run by the developers.
You call me childish when you were the one that retaliated against the developers by creating rubbish issues? Ironic.
Actually they were sincere questions. I am not retaliating. I want to know why they are doing it. But you seem to want to avoid that.
it is disturbing how they are behaving and the cult following they are cultivating by having their servers crash all the time to get donations/etc. It's like someone faking cancer. And you seem to be unable to study the code and see just how easy it was to fix the mistakes they went so far out of their way to not correct.
It is you who thinks such manipulation of an audience, the server installers and the creators of content, is defensible. I watched them cover-up a PostgreSQL question as fast as they could when 0.18.3 report came in on install. It was highly disturbing and bewildering to witness this. Why do they want servers to crash?
Matrix is a better discussion platform than Lemmy,
It was not crashing every 10 minutes of every day due to SQL TRIGGER code that the developers ignored.
Which also makes... Matrix the better discussion platform? What's your issue against Matrix?
I think Lemmy project creators work 9 to 5, for 4 years, and want to collect money. They do not use Lemmy. That's my point. They prefer Matrix. That's my point. They don't use Lemmy or care that it crashes all the time, they keep adding new features and the server crashing they consider acceptable.
They even brag and boast on Github that lemmy is "high performance", and that it has "full delete" when these are not factually true and it is low-performance code and does not delete, it crashes on delete. Is it their self-deception or the audience they are deceiving, or both?
Again, what's your point? Lemmy belongs to them, they can do whatever they want with it. Don't like it, fork it. What's your goal?
What’s your goal?
a world where peace, love, and compassion are favored by people and people voluntarily support goodness.
they can do whatever they want with it. Don’t like it, fork it.
It's become clear that what bothers you so much, what you are trying to do is drive off conversation. You care about the machines delivering your content. I actually care that people have self-awareness in the audience of the media they use. Not have blind faith that "fork it" actually is all that matters, and ignore teachers like Marshall McLuhan or Neil Postman who think it is important consumers of media are able to see how their own brain works instead of thinking "fork it" is all that matters, code.
I think audiences could use a website like Wikipedia to do news, instead they favor websites like Reddiit,, Twitter, Lemmy where the main focus is to sort by NEW and get FRESH "breaking news" without accuracy. A rumor mill of rushed information that is often inaccurate or distorted for the purposes of selling adverting/marketing/product placement. I don't think the cost or "fork it" technology of Wikipedia style sites is the problem, I think the issue is audiences have become addicted to and seek out poor-quality information so they can argue about it. A Wikipedia system with edit history and citations would put an end to too many debates and arguments that people seem to seek on rapid "refresh" social media.
I think humanity has gone from the information age to the disinformation age, and I think it is self-destruction, a major war or other self-destruction brewing.
If you have the answer, and have had it for over a month, create the PR for it. Why is that an insult to you?
If you have the answer, and have had it for over a month
Why can't you say the same thing about the Lemmy developers? They are the ones who installed the mistake. now suddenly others have to fix their mistakes for them? It's really odd how you deflect from their responsibility.
a world where peace, love, and compassion are favored by people and people voluntarily support goodness.
If you were, you wouldn't be trying to incite conflict by accusing everyone of being pro-China or pro-CCP, or going off on a rant on America's social media companies.
It’s become clear that what bothers you so much, what you are trying to do is drive off conversation
Well, I'm nice, I don't want to hurt your brain further by engaging in pointless conversation with you.
You care about the machines delivering your content. I actually care that people have self-awareness in the audience of the media they use. Not have blind faith that “fork it” actually is all that matters, and ignore teachers like Marshall McLuhan or Neil Postman who think it is important consumers of media are able to see how their own brain works instead of thinking “fork it” is all that matters, code.
How the flying spaghetti meatball monster fuck is this relevant to your rant over how you were getting sidelined on GitHub?
I think audiences could use a website like Wikipedia to do news, instead they favor websites like Reddiit, Twitter, Lemmy where the main focus is to sort by NEW and get FRESH “breaking news” without accuracy.
Okay, get off Lemmy then, why are you helping the Lemmy developers to the point of hurting your brain? You are nothing but full of contradictory statements. Nothing is keeping you here, if you don't want to be here, leave. It is that simple.
if you don’t want to be here, leave. It is that simple.
It's funny how you are projecting. You do not want ME here, you keep telling me to leave. If I wanted to leave, i would have left But you seem very confused. Simple flippant dismissal seems to be your approach to complexity.
You are absolutely right, I think you being here is actually hurting you. You already have so much on your plate to deal with, I certainly don't think it's right that you have to shoulder through the pain your brain gets when you type. You should take care of yourself more, and not put yourself through more pain.
"everyone', yha. You really think Lemmy is "everyone", or you lie and deceive that at least.
I think people are pro-authority in their religion to books about dead people; It doesn't even have to be a living China government. Even the machines or an application code can be what you are loyal to. But they like the power, attracted to even the server crashes, spectacle.
Well, I’m nice, I don’t want to hurt your brain further by engaging in pointless conversation with you.
You commanded that I "fork Lemmy", that I code, that hurs my brian too. But you lack comassion and enjoy mocking weakness.
How the flying spaghetti meatball monster fuck is this relevant to your rant over how you were getting sidelined on GitHub?
Do you even know who Neil Postman is, is that why you think nothing is relevant to how Lemmy is run? That would explain why you think it isn't relevant, because you never heard of Neil Postman. He did die decades back, so it wouldn't surprise me. It must be easier for you to jsut give flippant replies "how the flying fukc" instead of actually learning or reading a book from Neil Postman.
"Fork it", "wtf", you like simplistic answers to difficult problems. Clearly you would not spend hundreds of hours testing fLemmy and watching the developers before posting something like I did this past few days. It's really sad to see your total faith and blind faith in action.
I can see why you might have never read something from Neil Postman and responded as if it was off-topic to social media applications and their cultures.
Neil Postman
No, why should I know who he is? How is he relevant to how Lemmy is run? How are my replies relevant to whatever Neil Postman wrote? Can you elaborate?
“Fork it”, “wtf”, you like simplistic answers to difficult problems. Clearly you would not spend hundreds of hours testing fLemmy and watching the developers before posting something like I did this past few days. It’s really sad to see your total faith and blind faith in action.
Well, your efforts clearly did not achieve your desired results, so forking the project, and starting your own Lemmy-alternative seems like the logical next step no?
I can see why you might have never read something from Neil Postman and responded as if it was off-topic to social media applications and their cultures.
Again, why do you keep bringing up American authors?
Cambridge Analytica in 2014 seems to have turned much of the online population attitude to that of dismissing human beings in favor of memes and disinformation. and the player who seeded anti-vaccination topics since 2013 on the Internet, that was documented in 2018 by John Hopkins university. my "candy" would have been teachers like Carl Sagan having enough students in the population that junk information wasn't saturation... but since 2014 junk just seems to keep growing and expanding.
You're rocketderp based on your instability I'm guessing? Looks like your the only one that is nonsensical in that thread. Your PR isn't a PR. You were rushing to someone that was being helpful but you still acted like a child with your advise of GitHub bugs and PRs and not using them properly. The other person in agreement with you at least is calm and rational. I'm guessing you never worked on a group project before or have had anyone disagree with you. Your commits broke the pipeline. Someone even tried calling you down, but you wouldn't listen.
You aren't the victim here. You're the bully.
You’re rocketderp based on your instability I’m guessing?
Yes. My name is Stephen Alfred Gutknecht. It is clearly detailed here on my profile that I am "RocketDerp" on GitHub.
Looks like your the only one that is nonsensical in that thread.
Issue 2910? The word "nonsense" is being discussed about a Lemmy TRIGGER on June 4, 2023.
I’m guessing you never worked on a group project before or have had anyone disagree with you.
You would be guessing wrong. Since late 2019 I am in constant mental anguish and barely surviving. My communications is a constant struggle and I openly disclose this so that it is understood, I am not attempting to cover it up.
I’m guessing you never worked on a group project before
The "i'm guessing" game. And I note you can't actually cite the Github issues by number (2910) or keep details here in fact. A lot of "guessing" going on.
based on your instability I’m guessing?
"guessing" again. Should I guess you do not know how difficult or easy it is to remove a TRIGGER in PostgreSQL that is causing server crashes?
You aren’t the victim here.
Why do you think this is about "me"? I haven't donated money to the project or had blind faith in the developers.
You’re the bully.
I'm beyond frustrated that they seem to be going so far out of their way to have servers crash that their motives for doing so need explanation. "Social hazing" is the best answer I can come up with. I've now outright asked why they are dong it, because the pattern of behavior with trying to let server crashes has been going on now for months.
I have to admit that it's amazing the number of people they have attracted with the server crashing. It's been a social experience in some ways like Elon Musk is doing with Twitter. Perhaps it bothers me when other people actually seem to enjoy it. That seems to be the hiveMind reaction here. In that sense, if it is "social hazing", it has worked very well.
No.
The feature you suggest be ripped out is one that many people like. I've seen people say they hate Mastodon because "Likes" are only counted on the local server and they feel it's useless. You can't just suggest rip it out without a fix in its place.
Do we even know the read/write operations of the database are what's pulling it down when it crashes? Sure it's not the best code I've seen, but on large instances it still manages quite the uptime. Without insight into the cause of the crashes, you can't honestly say "this, this right here." Could it help? Probably. Do you need to suggest someone enjoys murdering people because they don't immediately implement something? Probably not.
Just because you can't think of another reason why they didn't listen to you, it doesn't mean that the one you thought of is correct. That's not how logic works. It's narcissistic to believe that you can think of every explanation for something that's happening.
the feature you suggest be ripped out is one that many people like.
ok, I've come to terms. I posed an apology just now on github, and I apologize to you.
I see now that people value the social outcomes of how they run the project far more than I realized.
Just because you can’t think of another reason why they didn’t listen to you
I didn't say anything, I was entirely silent, when the June 4 2023 issue 2910 was opened. So I don't grasp why you think this is all about me. I never thought this was about me. The June 30 Reddit API deadline was what I thought this was all about when I was witnessing this.
I didn't do pull request and add a new developer in the mix in June because it was such an easy problem to fix. It was when on June 13 that they still had not responded to the June 4 issue 2910 and did hardware upgrades on lemmy.ml that I started to interpret the situation differently. Instead of responding to Issue 2910 on Github, that same day on June 13 I started organizing Lemmy-specific PostgreSQL instructions on !lemmyperformance@lemmy.ml because servers were crashing even after the hardware upgrades.
I now realize, today, that my whole approach to this comes from experience running PostgreSQL in "mission critical" applications. What I have done with DB/2 and PostgreSQL wasn't driven by social loyalty and "Taking on the Big Guys of Reddit and Twitter" that happens here. I've been all wrong to think that the developers don't know exactly what they are doing. It's like criticizing Hollywood for spending 3 million dollars on sets and clothes for 90 seconds of a film. I should have realized I was not understanding that social media sites run by social behavior models, not by technology concerns.
Elon Musk has done wild things since he took over Twitter and I didn't take it so personal. I guess it was my memories and personal experience with PostgreSQL that haunted me too much. I was wrong. And i see how the lemmy community is loyal, so I can see just how wrong I am about the choices being made.
You jumping to politics and weird accusations of folks supporting murder as being the only reason they didn't fix a postgres bug because, by your own words, you couldn't think of any other reason.
You clearly have issues communicating and you are admittedly self aware yet you refuse to ever believe maybe those issues are the root of your arguments.
I could list 50 reasons I could think of. Many of which would be even more offensive. I didn't sit patiently by watching June 4 issue 2910 go ignored because I was trying to over-react. In fact, I couldn't believe what I was seeing as they upgraded hardware June 13 and continued to ignore the June 4 issue on Github. Even further when June 30 deadline for Reddit API came.
I have been very wrong in how I dealt with it this past 10 days, as I did not come to understand how much the community has come to enjoy the environment of Lemmy. Talking to you has enlightened now just how socially driven the whole platform is and that any training and experiences I have running mission-critical apps with PostgreSQL and DB2 on production servers do not apply here and I should have realized just how wrong my social interpretation of the situation has become.
It's like watching the recent Nolan film release of Oppenheimer on IMAX. The massive size of the platters and how projectors have run into problems on opening night / first few days of showings. It's about the style and cool factors, just because Lemmy uses PostgreSQL I considered reliability to be important, but now I clearly see I socially failed to understand how much the community here has come to adore Lemmy history and progression.
Rock Stars being criticized about their style and use of the technology was a huge mistake on my part. It's all about putting on entertainment people like and the fans of the project are loyal to how it is done. I have been far too slow to recognize the "cool factor" of the Rock Star cultivation happening in front of me. I'm worried about the tire engine maintenance costs on an exotic sports car that draws huge crowds. Sorry I did not grasp that the crowds were so enamored and how that drives the project choices.
Heavy drinking, first time since New Years, reset my brain and I now re-interpret everything I learned about Lemmy history in a new light.
You're spamming this all over this thread. Why don't you go create a PR instead? If you think you have a better solution then go discuss it with the people who have the full context and try to get it fixed instead of complaining here.
Why don’t you go create a PR instead?
It's amazing how you have fallen hook line and sinker into believing that the problem is difficult to solve. It's the agenda that is the problem.
They have people like you who will not read actual code to see that they only care about the fact that "Rust is cool programming language" and crashing code doesn't get any priority.
They even started a new front-end Rust application this month, because they don't care to bother with the core of the site, PostgreSQL doing INSERT and SELECT statements to load comments.
It’s amazing how you have fallen hook line and sinker into believing that the problem is difficult to solve. It’s the agenda that is the problem.
If the problem is easy to solve, then go solve it, open a PR, and come back here once you've done so.
If you're going to signal that something needs to be done, and you want people to join you in supporting that belief, then actually put something forward that people can get behind. What would me getting angry alongside you actually accomplish? If there was a PR then the community could go and say "Here is a solution, here's why we think it's worth merging" and a discussion could actually be had.
Instead you're just giving rhetoric about how they don't want to solve this without any evidence, actually creating a PR and having it rejected would be all the anyone needs to see to support your opinion, so go do it.
They have people like you who will not read actual code to see that they only care about the fact that “Rust is cool programming language” and crashing code doesn’t get any priority.
I've have merged PR's in the Lemmy repos. Don't assume you know anything about me or my position, because you don't. I don't have any particular stance on Rust and if this is actually an issue it's one I'd like to see resolved, so go open a PR and get the conversation started instead of whinging here.
They even started a new front-end Rust application this month, because they don’t care to bother with the core of the site
Are you referring to this repo that Dessalines forked and hasn't made a single commit against? That hardly seems like they're abandoning the current frontend and more like a dev messing around with various tech as we all do.
PostgreSQL doing INSERT and SELECT statements to load comments.
If you know what's wrong, and you know how to fix it, then either put up or shut up. Go make a PR and fix the problem and show us that they rejected the PR because they're not interested in improving performance. There's folks like Phiresky actually making meaningful contributions to the backend to help improve Postgre performance, something both dessalines and nutomic have said they're not well experts in. Be like Phiresky, actually put your code where your mouth is.
Lastly, I don't know if you were aware of this, but the Lemmy devs don't owe you anything. Even less so if you're not actually contributing code or money to help move this project forward.
If the problem is easy to solve, then go solve it, open a PR, and come back here once you’ve done so.
Why... That isn't going to get in installed on the servers they are running. I failed to see that this is a "Rock Star" culture, and the audience does not interpret months of Issue 2910 getting no attention as a problem. There are social forces that are non-technical, and I wildly misinterpreted the situation. You personally have really made the case to me just how wrong I am. Again, I am sorry I made such a fuss and misunderstood.
Be like Phiresky, actually put your code where your mouth is.
Why... That isn't going to get in installed on the servers they are running. I know the change was not difficult for anyone to do. I failed to see that this is a "Rock Star" culture. Look at how you know them by names, and how much you respect that. I just didn't appreciate the 4 years of style and fashion so fully.
Lastly, I don’t know if you were aware of this, but the Lemmy devs don’t owe you anything.
Such an interesting discussion. Do you believe Reddit owes you something? Do you believe Linux owes you something? Such a interesting topic.
This has nothing to do with rockstar culture and everything to do with the fact that you're spending 10x the amount of typing complaining about an issue than it would have taken you to just go and fix it and be done with this. So either you don't want it fixed because you prefer to complain and die on your sword, or you don't know how to fix it.
Either way I'm done with the conversation. If there is actually an issue I expect someone else who is actually levelheaded and reasonable will identify it and submit a PR. Because that's how you improve open source software, not by throwing tantrums and making wild assumptions about peoples agendas. Go touch grass or something.
This has nothing to do with rockstar culture
Then I'm confused, because that was my own idea.
the fact that you’re spending 10x the amount of typing complaining about an issue
I'm no longer complaining, you convinced me, I love them like Rock Stars now and I have formally apologized and explained how wrong I was in my thinking because of my past memories of running mission-critical PostgreSQL servers. Are we clear now? It's all about Style and Fashion, and I got way too worked up about crashes.
So either you don’t want it fixed because you prefer to complain and die on your sword, or you don’t know how to fix it.
I don't get this. Why are you making it about me? Do you think I am the one who opened GitHub issue 2910? Is that your accusation? That I created a fake account and opened issue 2910? I was not worried about me. Even in June I was not worried about me personally. I was worried about the person who opened the issue, is that understandable to you?
I was worried about Reddit users encountering server crashes. This isn't about one person, me. This is about thousands of people and a June 30 deadline.
But 12 hours ago, I have turned direction. I did not realize just the kind of culture and "Rock Star" attitude that was going. I was focused on Reddit June 30, and I didn't see that the social conventions were far more important than server crashes. It was a mistake for me to be worried so much about data and crashes when that isn't the culture here. I am finding everything thinks it is "cool" and "fine" that it took over a month for 2910 to be resolved. I never expected that, it was me who was socially out of touch.
I really got lost socially and regret my attitude problem. I should have learned back in March with Elon Musk running Twitter now, that the rules for social media cultures are vastly different than my measures for what would consider to be "cool" regarding a server crash issue. Not one person has said that 2910 should have been addressed within 3 or 4 days of being created. So I know now that it is me who has to change.
If there is actually an issue I expect someone else who is actually levelheaded and reasonable will identify it and submit a PR.
Do you think the issue isn't fixed or something? This is a postmortem discussion. You seem confused. Or do you think some other confusion, like I'ts about me personally in Issue 2910?
A reminder that this constant advice people blindly parrot to install and flock to smaller instance has now created something like 1000 new servers in 50 days that are poorly run and already going offline as quickly as they went online.
Github Issue 2910 is the kind of PostgreSQL problems that the developers ignored for months and people still defend the developer choices to have the code doing real-time counting of every single comment and post for numbers nobody needs to needs done in real-time.
PostgreSQL is voodoo to this project, they do everything they can to avoid going to !postgresql@lemmy.ml community and asking for help, learning 101 about how to fix their SQL TRIGGER logic like Github Issue 2910 spelled out June 4.
I know you are salty about how you are getting treated over at GitHub, but you should look at it objectively, Blaze is clearly advocating that people join top instances that's not lemmy.world or lemmy.ml, not nobody instances that only have 1-2 users. They certainly aren't going offline as quickly as they come online.
No, it isn't about my personal treatment. It's about the cultist attitude you have towards Lemmy and the leaders without any ability to see what they are doing behind the scenes with the code. I know cults and religious faith is how many people enjoy the world.
A 2-line SQL TRIGGER removal takes about minutes to fix. It was crashing the entire site constantly. They sat by and asked for donations of money.
Then go fix it and open a PR
Do you think I am the one who created the mistake or something? That I have access to the servers to install it?
It's so odd to me that you respond this way, as if it was my coding mistake. It isn't even me who opened issue, that is GitHub "makotech222" - is that your answer to them?
I don’t believe they’re insinuating that you were the one that created the mistake. Rather, that you seem to be knowledgeable of the specific problem and may be the one most capable of fixing it. The two line fix may be obvious to you, but may not to the main Lemmy devs. Until phriskey got involved, a lot of db tuning was being avoided (they’re responsible for most of the big db improvements this version).
and I did not understand or properly relate to that project culture. It had been that way for years and I should have "read the room" "go with the flow".
No, it's everything to do about your personal treatment, stop deceiving yourself. Just because you claim you have autism doesn't immediately grant you the right to be entitled. You don't get your way so you spam create multiple issues to call out the developers, and you expect people to believe it isn't personal for you?
If you aren't happy with the Lemmy developers, fork the project, run your own fork, convince others to use your fork. It's a FOSS world, no one has to do what you say, even if you claim to be autistic.
Telling someone "you claim you have autism" is extremely ableist to all disabled people.
Entitled to what? free money? discount at the car wash? I see you like claiming things that I never said, who talked about deserving things or being entitled?
perhaps you do not grasp that autism impacts my writing and the level of pain I have in communicating, even this very comment. It causes me huge pain and suffering to have my brain touch the keyboard and compose English sentences.
Maybe you lack compassion for my suffering and you are a bully.
No, I never claimed that you said you were entitled. I claimed that you like using your autism as an excuse.
See? Why make yourself suffer?
Why do you deserve my compassion? You are literally hurting yourself by participating in discussions even when you claim, in your own words, "autism impacts my writing and the level of pain I have in communicating, even this very comment. It causes me huge pain and suffering to have my brain touch the keyboard and compose English sentences.". If it hurts so much, get offline.
you used the word entitled, or are you confused? Now you are saying it is an excuse?
It's a fact, it impacts my every word I'm typing on this keyboard, every single English word I speak, read, write, type, hear. It causes bullies and hate-filled people who hate human beings to flock to you to try to "correct" everything about your existence and behavior. Like you are doing.
Do you know the history of Autism in Nazi Europe where it started to get documented? Do you know how humans treat those with mental differences? Is it all your game to imply that love and kindness is shown towards those who speak and behave oddly?
that is all you car about, not having to encounter words you disagree with, to drive off human person you don't like. It's sad to see the popularity of people like you, Donald Trump likes to harm others and gets big crowds too.
If you willingly hurt yourself, or your brain, conversing online, then you shouldn't be using it as an excuse to get your point across. The advice was given, if it hurts, stop doing it, is that really that hard to explain?
to you, yes. As I don't think in flippant attempts to trivialize human beings and reduce things to simpleton answers for something they have struggled with each and every day of their life. It sure is easier to dehumanize me as you keep doing.
writing online is about the only thing in my life that I can do, despite the constant pain, and I'm near death. Once the writing goes, there is zero left, I'm not even really surviving.
Simon Baron-Cohen; July 1, 2003; "The Essential Difference: Male And Female Brains And The Truth About Autism", page 146 quote: "Another man with AS described his life in a very graphic way: 'Every day is like climbing Mount Everest in lead boots, covered in molasses. Every step in every part of my life is a struggle.'"
If it helps clarify things for you, the person you are arguing with doesn't understand what you are trying to say with regards to how autism informs your interactions with others online and is arguing against a point you aren't trying to make. They are however entirely too dug into arguing against that point to easily and effectively get them to understand what you are actually saying and respond to that without the baggage of already deciding that they entirely disagree with you to the point they think they are entitled to be rude to you because you don't agree with them.
The conversation you are in in this thread is more difficult than it ought to be and while some element of that may be due to your autism, there's also a lot of failures from the other side of it making the conversation harder than it should be. At this point you are not being treated kindly and respectfully by the other person (because they are frustrated and handling it poorly.) Better to just disengage with them and shrug it off as a misunderstanding and bad behaviour not of your making as best as you are able to do so.
Reddit convinced people to use Reddit. Elon Musk convinces people to stay on Twitter. Donald Trump convinces people to vote for him.
Just maybe the audience level of knowledge about the topics of media is the problem. You. Maybe you are actually attracted to Lemmy because it crashes, just like people flock to Donald Trump because he does bad things. And people flock to HDTV news instead of reading a book on a subject.
It's odd but not unexpected that you think the problem is code and does not involve the audience being attracted to certain characteristics. I hear McDondl's has a lot of customers.
What is a SQL trigger and why is it taking down servers? Do you know how to fix it?
I think 0.18.3 fixed some of it, but there are likely some more performance issues related to PostgreSQL lurking in Lemmy.
A TRIGGER in SQL is a logic that executes based on other activity.
Lemmy uses them so that when you create a new comment or post, it executes code to insert tracking record for votes and comments on a post. One of the things Lemmy does is called site_aggregates, and there was a bug where it was updating the counts for 1500 servers instead of just the one server. That got fixed in 0.18.3
Deleting accounts in lemmy was causes crashes. I'm not sure if that has been entirely resolved. These things are all kind of hidden in the background of the code, so a lot of developers overlooked that there were problems in them.
Isn’t there a logstream they could tap into to have a separate async tally going on instead of doing it synchronously? Probably a lot of things could be delegated to an async job performed when server load allows?
I've had to really adjust my thinking with this project. They want to do things a very particular way and it goes back 4 years, and a lot of the mistakes are just now getting noticed/attention. For example, comments were not deleting on all the servers, I was testing that after comparing server copies of the same communities and found they were not the same. It just didn't seem to have a lot of people spot-checking it for mistakes. I am learn to just "go with the flow" and face that it's more like how musicians would approach design and running a project. Media-focused systems can be that way.
Going with the flow is both ways. It’s a community project so everyone’s opinion matters, especially those who contribute PRs.
I am always advocating for any of the top 25 instances that are not Lemmy.world or Lemmy.ml
For the rest of your post, I don't know what that has to do with people aggreating on LW.
aggregation refers to the lemmy database tables, site_ aggregates, community, person. The SQL TRIGGER logic lemmy_server uses that has been the source of so many crashes the past 60+ days.
Even if the SQL was top notch, it would not be a good thing for 50% of the active users to be on a simple instance. Just makes it easier to take down by any potential attacker.
Shit dude, you still going on about the GitHub issues?
You are really fucking stupid and it shows.
Is it your cult loyalty to the pro-China project leaders speaking? The authoritarianism that you honor? Do you have blind faith in machine code and are unable to see the level of effort they make to avoid the performance critical code in the application?
Did their words "high performance" on GitHub mesmerise you into believing it without actually installing the Rust code and looking at their performance your own self?
Sorry to tell you this, but you need to stop being overly obsessed over the Lemmy project. It is not healthy for you. Go do something better with your life. With the amount of enthusiasm you are showing, I bet you can find the cure for cancer.
This is the appropriate time and place to discuss the codebase and project management approach of the Lemmy FOSS project. If you don't like hearing people you disagree with talk about those things, you should be going to do something else rather than rudely trying to make them shut up. Even from the perspective that you just want to challenge this user about the appropriateness of how they are expressing their opinions and frustrations, you are going too far and behaving inappropriately yourself with all the personal attacks. Just leave it alone and if they are saying things that you feel need to be addressed just report and move on.
I have nothing against anyone who wants to bring up issues, but the way one brings up the issues should be taken into account. Anyone who tries to get their point across by spamming GitHub issues automatically loses points in my book.
Is this acceptable in your book? Are you defending this action? It certainly is not acceptable in mine, and the reason why I called the user out on it.
I understand if you take offense at the way I came across the user in question, but when they repeatedly bring up their pain as a response, it is only logical that I ask them to refrain from actions that cause them pain. It's one thing to have to go through pain for basic life-sustaining tasks, like eating, drinking, or even physiotherapy, but if your brain hurts typing on a social media forum, which you repeatedly refuse to cease, then you have no sympathy from me. Lemmy, or even Reddit for that matter is not a basic living requirement.
What personal attacks?
Likewise, if you have an issue with what I said, go ahead, report and move on. If I broke any instance rules, I'm sure the responsible admins will be swift in delivering the appropriate response.
If the cure to cancer were found, like a virus to prevent deaths from COVID-19, sites like Twitter and Lemmy would spread lies and disinformation and tell people to avoid authentic facts and science.
Is it the pro-China stance of the developers that gives you blind faith in how their SQL TRIGGER code works or Rust logic?
I doubt your sincerity and think this is a social tactic you use, lies. Insincerity.
The lies coming out of Elon Musk's Twitter and the lies from Cambridge Analtica on Facebook make me ill. The constant people I meet in the USA who praise oil consumption and deny climate change science makes me sick. I didn't stubble into Lemmy because I was healthy with crowds of people who flock to anything in "meme format" and praise authoritarian politicians and businessmen.
Based on how humanity behaved during the pandemic, with all the denial of a virus that a microscope can deonstate as fact, I don't think it is possible to be healthy unless you choose to self-deceive and believe the memes and advertisements.
Maybe, maybe not. It's up to the reader to differentiate between facts and tales. I don't see how that is relevant.
No, I believe the project is in need of a lot of polish. However, the way you act, makes me hope the polish does not come from you.
Okay.
Have you considered turning off your computer, and looking out the window? Looks like the problems you are facing can be solved rather easily. There is neither Twitter nor Facebook out the window.
Perhaps you do not see it is relevant, or that you are being insincere on the topic
Humanity track record is to avoid truth and favor mythology. I can suggest Carl Sagan's 1995 book on the subject.
Yha, all the people around me are staring into their Smartphones and attacking humanism on social media like you are.
You apparently can not see them with their Smartphone while driving and doing practically anything.
You quoted it in your reply, but you obviously ignored this: "The constant people I meet in the USA who praise oil consumption and deny climate change science makes me sick."
Meet, in person, IRL, "outside the window" as you call it. You clearly do not care for reality of humanity and what is actually happening because of media like Twitter, Reddit, Lemmy.
I was just reading through y'all's conversation and this piece stuck out to me. I read a lot of loneliness, hurt, and isolation in your comments, yo, and then I read this piece. Man, do I get that. That reminded me of me throughout high school and college; I didn't feel like anyone saw what I saw. Which was pain. And if I'm being honest, I was seeing others' pain, but I was mostly seeing my pain. I met my best friend late in college, and she was a god-send because she got me. She saw their pain too. And more importantly, she saw my pain and honored it, and that was such a relief.
When I feel alone and isolated, I usually feel like withdrawing more. Since her, I've found that that's usually a sign that I actually need to connect. I need to find others that get me. Not as another avenue to vent my frustrations and anger and pain, but as an avenue for joy, as an avenue for remembering that I am more than just my pain.
That's a lot of shit off the top of my head, and I dunno if you'll resonate with any of it because I only know you as far as a few comments online. But wanted to write it in case it would resonate with you or anyone else.
Take care of yourselves, y'all.
I find everyone is in pain, and often covering it up. I gave up covering my pain in 2009 and haven't turned back. But a lot of people want to deny the suffering in the world and do not want to see authentic pain. They want memes, superhero comics etc.
It is sad to me that humanity can not organize a mass funeral for those who died in the pandemic. There is so much hate and pain between people, online and offline. People seem to show trauma towards even basic medical science facts in 2023.
Thank you and love to all, have a good weekend
Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree; I wish we were better at honoring our united pain and each other's pain. As you and I both know, that's not the case on a grand scale, and why I think it's so important for us to build and find our smaller communities that do.
Have a good weekend too, yo!
They would try, but they would fail. COVID-19 is history now, because of vaccination, despite the best efforts of anti-vax death cultists to stop it.
I find anti-science is going as Carl Sagan predicted it could in his 1995 book.
I do not meet people who would consider a microscope a useful tool to look at the virus. Their faith is in information on TV or websites, not even considering that the virus can be directly observed. I saw almost nobody asking for a TV show to show microscope footage and taking a test from a person and demonstrating it can be seen. Virus has been on Earth for millions of year, the microscope is the new thing they aren't facing.
There is a popularity aspect of misinformation. Sagan teaches about that too.
There were pictures and diagrams of the virus. There was even art made in the virus' likeness.
I've never seen a claim that COVID-19 was caused by anything other than an observable physical object. There have been many claims that it's a manmade bioweapon and that vaccines are ineffective and harmful, but I've never heard of someone claiming it's an intangible curse from God or something.
But there were people who couldn't seem to associate that it comes from friends and neighbors and that they could spread it, and seem to think it is all about a laboratory or 'people die in hospitals'.
Yes, exactly, in a laboratory, not in friends and neighbors who carry it around and spread it peer to peer.
The same thing with computer virus, many users I have had to remove virus on their computer claim it magically jumped on their computer. When computers were not even networked. You often had to go track down who they got a floppy disk from.
That's some backwards logic, then. The whole point of bioweapons is that, once introduced into the population you're trying to exterminate, it spreads among them peer-to-peer.
And this will always.. always be the biggest problem in the FOSS community.
"I dont like X, so I'm going to leave and make my own version of X"
So userbases get spread thin, manpower gets spread thin, developers get spread thin, and the user experiences degrades for everyone until it pushes them back to the bullshit websites and products.
This is exactly what federation is meant to solve: power in numbers without the centralization. Is that so hard to understand?
Sometimes I question why people not in favor of the decentralization are commenting on a Fediverse platform. Why not go to Tildes, Squabbles or another centralized alternative? There is plenty of fish in the sea.
This is another big problem in the FOSS
"If you dare offer valid criticism, then why are you even here? get out and go somewhere else!"
Your criticism is nonsensical. It's literally criticizing the purpose of the project.
Oh dear, are you gonna start another tissue shortage with all these tears?
Pot calling the kettle black. I offer criticism of your criticism and you throw a hissy fit. Poor child.
Wow, I havent gotten a genuine, unironic "No, U!" since like kindergarten.
Wooosh
Your answer didn't justify lemmy.world being treated the same as Lemmy as a whole. It's just a bunch of people who don't understand federation.
And, factually, the project leaders telling everyone to create 1000 new instances and shutting down sign-up on Lemmy.ml caused more performance problems.
They had a bug in their PostgreSQL TRIGGER logic where 1500 instances were updating + 1 comment and +1 post counting instead of WHERE site_id = 1, a single database row. So each new Lemmy server that went online made the table larger and crashes more frequent on lemmy.ml
The amount of disk writing by lemmy was ignored
They've neither told people to create 1000 new instances, nor have they closed signups on lemmy.ml.
Again, you should really stop revolving your entire life over one GitHub issue, and go touch grass.
You know what is easy to do, lie and make-up facts. It is so much easier to bullshit to be popular around here.
It's disgusting the people who lie like you do and believe liars: https://lemmy.ml/post/2421636
The irony in you saying that, and posting second-hand recounts by other people. They aren't closed. If they are closed, you wouldn't even be able to submit a registration application.
Man reading this thread, you're kind of a dumbass. Especially if you think rewording your answer here from the last reply to reframe to current time period vs what was being talked about would throw off the scent
They've not closed sign ups. Requiring approval of sign ups, is not closing sign ups. How am I wrong?
Currently no. But they had, which was clearly stated as it was talking on the past.
Show me in the code. Because I have closed the registration on my Lemmy server, and it does not turn off the "Sign Up" link or HTML input fields. But you sure like lies and deception
The developers of Lemmy seem to make every effort they can to avoid using Lemmy itself to discuss their !postgresql@lemmy.ml learning 101. They have made massive mistakes in SQL TRIGGER logic that they avoided to such a degree that their social motives are in question now. Github Issue 2910 was opened June 4, almost a month before the Reddit API deadline, and they ignored it. Just like they hang out on Matrix Chat and don't use Lemmy their own self to discuss code.
They have cultivated a kind of voodoo attitude towards PostgreSQL where people using Lemmy won't actually scrutinize the Rust code or PostgreSQL tuning parameters.
I mean having a bunch of new servers is not a problem. Just choose one that's been up for a while and more stable.
But each additional row in site_aggregates table was causing the instability itself. The SQL code had major flaws. Adding more servers actually made Lemmy crash more.
You can also just have multiple accounts. I have one on lemm.ee just for this reason.
Definitely!
Yeah, I have .world where I first signed up. It occasionally had some issues so I added another that I just mostly read on if the other isn't working
It'd be nice to export/import subscriptions but I'm sure eventually the servers will get past it
You can use that script https://github.com/CMahaff/lasim
I'm afraid that as long as you have to go to github and run such scripts for these things, Lemmy will stay a nerd-only place.
Hopefully it gets integrated into the website at some point
I learnt my lesson to have multiple accounts after vlemmy
That was my main. The instance vanished faster than cotton candy being held by a raccoon standing in a pond.
Oddly specific, but very accurate
It's funny, at this point I don't feel like I even have a main account. I just randomly pick an instance every time I go Lemmying
Same, I have accounts on lemmy.ml, lemmy.world, and Kbin.social. I'm just waiting for a good app to be compatible with Kbin. Right now all the apps coming out are geared toward Lemmy.
I don't remember Kbin having an API, so that might explain why
I'm trying to pick ones with meaningfully different aims so that I can try to keep some sort of separation in my head. Otherwise I'd quickly lose track of what conversation having where, with whom and why.
I forgot that I had a lemmy.ee account and set up my own instance a few days ago while lemmy.world was down.
Right now it’s just a free Google cloud VM instance and a $3/year domain. It was super easy to set up with Lemmy-Easy-Deploy and I’ll never have an issue with going down. I’ll either be busy looking through Lemmy, or busy trying to figure out why it went down!
Is there a readily available tool that can export/import community subs? I have two accounts on different instances but would like them to have to same subscriptions
I've not used it myself but heard good things about https://github.com/CMahaff/lasim
Does this work on android?
I don't think so, you might be out of luck there.
Awesome, thank you!
Lemmy.one, my instance of choice, has been down since Thursday - just a reminder that smaller instance isn't always the solution. Having a few solid account choices on multiple instances is the way to go.
It’s a bit frustrating though. If I didn’t know better about the fediverse, I would’ve thought Lemmy in general was down, with no heads up or somewhere to see what’s going on.
http://lemmy-status.org/
Lemmy One still down by the way
Does anyone know why?
I have a few for this reason. Is there, or perhaps will there be a way for subscriptions to the shared across accounts?
Maybe this is already I thing and I’m oblivious.
I haven't had a chance to try it yet but here is this:
https://github.com/CMahaff/lasim
Lemmy.dbzer0.com is pretty stable, both in terms of release timing/server uptime, and also in terms of not flooding your feed with "politically instable" instances on both sides. Avoid the echo chambers.
One might argue that such a selection is, itself, an echo chamber.
That's my favorite instance as well but I'm not sure what you mean by politically instable on both sides
Quoting myself from a previous post:
First of all, it's really fine to stay on LW for now, no need to rush anything. But if at some point you have some time for this, then read the following.
So, to pick your instance, you can have a look at https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list, filter by "1m" to see what are the most popular ones. As you can see, with a 27433 monthly users, Lemmy.world is by far the most popular, which is why you might experience some issues from time to time.
You should have a look at the next instances on the list. Short story: lemm.ee, sh.itjust.works, lemmy.one, sopuli.xyz and reddthat.com are solid choices.
You are looking at instances with quite a lot of people (the more people help with filling your "All" feed), just not the most populous one (lemmy.world), the original one (lemmy.ml), and instances that are too specific, either due to country or specific focus.
Long story:
::: spoiler spoiler
.
To migrate your settings (including subscriptions and blocked instances), you can use that script: https://github.com/CMahaff/lasim
I think there is a huge misconception many people have that a larger instance is more likely to stay around, but due to the nonlinear costs involved in hosting fediverse instances this is not true.
Basically there is a sweet-spot around a few thousand (~2500) members where costs are low enough for a single admin paying things out of their own pocket long term is possible, but also enough members willing to occasionally donate or contribute otherwise to cover costs.
To be honest, I know it's a controversial view, but I would almost like to see Ruud and the LW admins block registrations for a while, along with a communication "Have a look at those other instances, they are well managed, you can access all of Lemmy just as well from there"
I'm not looking forward to 5 years from now, where instances like this are the mastodon.social of federated reddit-likes. As much as they should block registrations, I don't think they will. ...but I have a hat on stand by, just in case I need to eat it.
I think they're stuck in a vicious circle, their server costs scale with size but new users are way more likely to donate. Users that have already donated feel like they've done their bit for a while, and that's if they're still around and engaged in a few weeks. Very few people want to donate monthly, subscription style.
My personal controversial view is people should put more faith in well-run self-hosted instances. It's a much more sustainable way to run a Fediverse server and self-hosted doesn't have to mean amateur hour. Just because an instance is cloud hosted doesn't mean it's well configured or secure either.
I have way more resources at my disposal than the vast majority of cloud hosted instances, for a tiny fraction of the cost. lemm.ee for example is very well run but has to put up with a 100kb image size limit because of cost-driven space constrains.
Self hosting is also closer to the spirit of what decentralization is supposed to mean - your server ultimately belongs to your host.
Interesting, I wasn't really thinking about this, I guess most of admins nowadays just prefer the convenience (including scalability) of a VPS.
I mean, with 27k monthly active users, they are more prevalent that Mastodon.social. The following instances are so much smaller it's almost comical.
@remindme@mstdn.social 5y
If anyone's looking, my instance is open for everyone and I plan on supporting it long-term. https://lemmings.world
LASIM author here, ironically on my own alt: Just an FYI that support for Lemmy 0.18.3 is not yet out, but keep an eye out for it soon (I have it working on a branch but I need to test it more before release).
This is the first breaking API change since it's creation, so here are the limitations:
So that all means:
This will be true of every release with breaking API changes.
EDIT: PR is out. Once it builds, I'll publish a new release! https://github.com/CMahaff/lasim/pull/21
EDIT 2: Release is published! https://github.com/CMahaff/lasim/releases/tag/v0.2.0
Thank you for the heads up! You might want to add that to the ReadMe on your Github
Removed "and above" from page and instead added a note to always get the latest version if your version isn't listed as supported explicitly.
Great, thank you!
Thanks for all your hard work on this. I’ve used lasim to transfer my subscriptions to my other accounts on other instances when the lemmy.world downtimes happened last week. I love the portability of the tool.
Thanks for your kind words, I'm glad it has helped you!
Fwiw, sh.itjust.works is a horrible name, but a great instance lol.
What's funny though, I'm getting beehaw posts in my all feed since yesterday. No idea if they've refederated with us, or if it's an artifact of connect (my app of choice), or what,
Interesting. You are still on the list of their blocked instances, so I'm not sure: https://beehaw.org/instances
Must be some kind of weirdness with the app then. Thanks for looking at that!
You're welcome, have a good one!
geddit.social is a another good server, I have alt there. It's run by @stux@geddit.social who has his own hosting company and also hosts mstdn.social.
The DB migration at the end of this upgrade is significant, I was surprised how long it took when I upgraded my instance. Lots of room for things to go wrong considering the size of their DB.
That makes sense, especially how large the instance is. Just curious, how long did the migration take for you? Half an hour?
10-15 minutes here on a 32gb database.
It took about the same for me.
Interesting, thanks
Took me the whole day. The new migrations require PostgreSQL version 15, and my Akkoma and Lemmy are using a shared database server of version 13. First shut down both services, then update Debian from 11 to 12, PostgreSQL from 13 to 15 and after all this, redeploy Lemmy to start the migrations. The new Lemmy queries use more RAM compared to the previous version, so the database was getting OOM and I needed to upgrade to a bigger instance.
Not fun, but everything works now and is stable.
Interesting, thanks
Just make a second account, the one I run, lemmy.myserv.one is so underutilized its a joke. Smaller instances like mine basically have to beg for users and the server goes unused while bigger instances struggle under the constant traffic.
Because using random tiny servers is worse in other ways. With all due respect, nobody knows you and they don't know how committed you are or how much time you have. When your server gets DDoSed or hits a bug causing data loss, what will you do? Do you have the technological know-how to recover and quickly? If your server suddenly grew and it became more expensive to run, how does anyone know if you will keep paying the bills? If Lemmy has a bad zero day, will you upgrade quickly?
There's no need to answer these questions. I'm not actually asking you personally. But these are the kinds of questions that users have to worry about from random, small, unproven instances.
(Also, Lemmy does not favour small instances because the "all" feed, searching, and going to new communities are all better the more diverse users you have.)
Yes obviously the barrier to entry is high. But nobody knows for the big servers either since they are basically just small instances that happened to get big. Thats why lemmy.fmhy.ml just died one day due to domain seizure. End of the day all you can do is look at how long a server has been around and if it has be online a reasonable amount of time. That kind of reputation just increases slowly and nobody can make it happen faster.
I didn't know about the fmhy domain being seized. That explains why I haven't seen them around! That sucks. :(
As always, I have to ask: is there a second admin, what would happen to the instance if something happened to you tomorrow (which I really wish will not!)
The Vlemmy.net disaster is still fresh in people's mind
Ultimately I am the one paying the bill currently so if I die nobody elses credit card is being charged.
In terms of other admins, this is actually happening. Some smaller instances like mine are in the process of setting up a sharing admin work between instances so that if someone is on holiday, the instance still has an admin who can login. This was only just started and is in the process. We have to create a lot of documentation and basic stuff to get it fully functional where another admin can login and fix something. Its not at that stage yet and will be a couple more weeks before it is. We did a test last night where another instance admin (boulder.ly) could connect to my instance via ssh but without documentation on what to do and check anything more than the basics of rebooting or restarting something isnt going to happen. Eventually we will get it to what to do if site has a critical vulnerability or is being attacked but not ready yet. Its a work in progress unfortunately.
P
That's still very good news! Hopefully this can take away some of the worry users might have
I think without some kind of "incorporation" (or whatever the tech/FOSS equivalent of that is), most of these kinds of thing will be vulnerable to issues with the owner's payment methods failing. Even with donation options available it's almost always still being used to pay to the server owner in parallel to them paying server / domain costs out of pocket (and then reimbursing themselves with the donations)
That said, I have to assume there's some way to set up some kind of automated payment option where community donations actually fill a fund that is used to pay costs directly in case the maintainer drops off the face of the earth.
It mostly depends on the legal framework of each countries. I know in Europe a lot of FOSS non-profits are registered as such, with legal status, even sometimes tax deduction for donations.
I guess that will come in the coming months for some.
Thank you, the word "non-profit" was completely eluding my brain while writing that.
Yeah I hope a lot of the larger or more serious instances will look into that going forward, very curious to see what the landscape of all this looks like in a few months.
If Mastodon can be any indication for the future, I've seen a lot of European non-profits launch their own Mastodon instances.
Do we know what happened with vlemmy?
Not really, the guy just disappeared overnight
when I start writing this comment, the post is 47 minutes old. if I understand the linked page properly, lemmy.world has been functional (all green checkmarks) for the past 10 minutes which is the furthest back the data goes. All the other instances are all green except for lemmy.one which is all red. I am assuming that 47 minutes ago, lemmy.world had red boxes?
Maybe a different link would have explained the point better but I don't really see how a 30 minute (??) server outage during an upgrade is compelling to avoid a large instance. Are you suggesting it's better to use a server whos admins don't upgrade? If not, is there really any size of server that would meaningfully avoid this kind of occasional disruption? Seems to me that the dynamism of the environment will inevitably lead to various problems. That's part of the experience. TBH threadiverse uptime on the whole is pretty impressive for such a ragtag groups of admins and devs.
I have accounts on some smaller servers but they have their drawbacks too. Using a bigger server is more convenient because the people and content is already there. It's easier. I didn't plan to use lemmy.world but I ended up making account there to use sometimes.
I think in a year or so the situation might be different. I see the ideological point and I would like it to be true. Maybe the technology will catch up. I think it would be nice to be able to programmatically seed content, but maybe that would be obnoxious to admins.
I didn't track the timing too closely, but in the last few weeks there have been quite long disruption of service due to DDoS attacks on the largest instances.
I am personally quite tolerant towards Lemmy as a platform in its very infancy, but some other users might want to quit it due to this kind of annoyances, hence my comment about moving to a smaller instance.
What do you mean? You can access all of the content in the Threadiverse from whatever instance, modulo defederation, but Lemmy.world defederates quite a few instances too, so that's valid for both big and small instances. If you are talking about the "All" feed, which will indeed be empty if you are in a 10 people instances (communities need to be subscribed by an instance member for the instance to get the community content), then it's a valid issue, and that's why I suggest people to move to one of the 24 biggest instances that are not LW or Lemmy.ml
Lemm.ee, sh.itjust.works, sopuli.xyz, reddthat.com, lemmy.one, your country instance (if it's big enough). I'm on sopuli since a while now, and I'm very happy with the experience. 680 monthly active users, so the All feed is pretty much identical to the one on Lemmy.world, except the vey niche community I either don't care about or would already know by myself.
The biggest issue I see with having everyone on LW is that at some point the costs will be too high for the admins. It's quite a big risk, and that why I'm advocating to use smaller instances.
@Blaze as I understand it, if you are user on a small server, you only see content from communities that others on your sever have previously subbed to previously, or if you do so yourself. And then you only seen content from the moment of subscription on. There is no way to see back prior.
So if you want to use a community like !fediverse it's OK because its popular and there will be prior subs. but if you are interested in !rockingchairrepair you will miss all prior discussion. Am I incorrect?
Also in practice, from my experiments, there seem to be inconsistencies in how even this works.
When I mean a small server, I mean one of the top 20, which at least a few hundred users.
As I said elsewhere, with a few hundreds users, the chance of you stumbling upon a community that nobody else subscribes to is that either the community is dead, or it just started, or indeed it is very niche.
The only case where you want discussions from the start is the last case, which is very less likely to happen once your instance reaches a few thousands users (which is the scenario most of the people hope once we spread more evenly).
Of course I have one or two other accounts, but I personally like Lemmy.world. They serve as a necessary stress test that shows the devs and admins how to optimize further, and I just like learning admin practices at this scale of a userbase from a work perspective. Plus I don't want to be on an instance so small they can't or don't know how to handle compliance stuff and evaporate if something like that comes up. Not saying I know how to handle all of those situations, that's the job of someone else at work.
I think that's one of the issues that the rest of the instances are facing to appear as trustful as LW. LW admins have a long established reputation and experience managing Fediverse services, and provide very good transparency and a large team.
Other instances are usually nowhere close to that (some will be in the future I hope). The question I usually raise when someone start promoting their instance is "how many admins do you have?´What happens if you run under a bus tomorrow (hopefully you'll stay safe of course)? Is there a back up plan in place?"
Yeah, longevity and name recognition are why I went with sdf.org. They've been running many-user services for decades, even if the Lemmy service is pretty new.
ETA: they've been around since BBSes. I'm on a wicked nerdy old-school geek instance, and I love my local communities.
Yes, very good instance indeed
Best instance, I hope they make a firefish one.
you should see how many of these big servers were (and still are) running their instances as 'root'...
I specifically stopped trying to grow my instance to focus on security and sysadmin back-end administrative infrastructure.
Lemm.ee is amazing with a top admin
💯 checking out the admin of a Fediverse instance you want to join is a good idea. Do they communicate with their users? Do they seem responsible ? Do they have any previous experience as a network admin? Lemm.ee was an obvious yes on all counts.
The admin for vlemmy.net was the complete opposite and look how that turned out.
As I said elsewhere
Not sure people will listen though. I will always talk up the amazing admin I have on lemmy.tf, but it's also worth mentioning that I have a bunch of communities hosted on other instances and each and every one of them is amazing.
Definitely.
I moved to self hosting mine instance :)
Well done!
There are 63 instances according to Jerboa.
Do note that this doesn't actually account for an accurate total of Lemmy instances across the Fediverse. It is a hardcoded list of instances.
Edit: Correction, its a generated list of instances (that gets copied into Jerboa) that have a MAU amount of more than 50 as pointed out below.
That list gets generated based on the lemmy instances tracked by fediverse.observer site that have a monthly active user amount greater than 50.
Fair point! I'll update my comment to reflect that.
Oh, okay. So how many are there?
My favorite way of discovering new communities / instances on Lemmy is through Lemmyverse and it shows 1,378 instances at the time of my writing!
Wow.
I think 10 is enough for me.
@russjr08
That's awesome thx!
@favrion @fediverse
working fine for me , actually I have to say lemmy.world has been very stable
Perhaps I open Jerboa too often but in the last week lemmy.world has been down around 4 times for me, sometimes for a short time sometimes for much longer. When I was on lemmy.fmhy.ml it was only down once for me until their domain was seized and that was for the server upgrade.
You are not the only one, the last few weeks have been rough for LW. That's why I suggest people to moving to other instances, I detailed the process in another comment in this thead (can't get the comment link to work for some reason)
I've found it, thanks 👍
Or just have 10 accounts so you only have downtime when your own internet is down.
And run 2 or 3 uplinks to different ISPs so that you're never offline.
And setup your own transmission dish so you can instantaneously switch to satellite if all ISPs go dark
Yes, that's called StarLink. Definitely a good option, if you make your own power.
I'm gonna make my own power! With black jack and hookers!
And their names are Deuterium and Tritium.
Nice. Where is power port on a hooker? Eh, nevermind.
I use photovoltaics, but not insular blackstart-capable battery buffered so when the grid is down I also have no power. Next year, though. Seems it's 2000 EUR minimum.
Just waiting patiently to get approved on midwest.social
Hopefully they'll get back to you soon!
Has anyone any idea what's going on with lemmy.one? It's been down for quite a while now
Probably some hiccup in upgrading to 18.3
I was on lemmy.world and had a really bad experience. The I moved to aussie.zone and its better than reddit. Never down, commenting, posts everything feels so fast and snappy.
This is why I love small instances as well. I'm on Lemmy.today and it flies.
People seem to be super worried about an instance disappearing for some reason. It has happened to like 3 instances, we are soon 1400 instances.
Also if it would happen, how hard is it to move to another and click subscribe on communities? Takes like 20 minutes if you have many of them.
I really think all this fear is silly. Enjoy Lemmy the way it was meant to be used. Use small instances.
Smaller instances are usually worse, in my experience
The instance lemmy.kya.moe that I created my alt on performs well too if anyone else is looking for an alternative :D
Where is this screenshot from? Link me plz :)
http://lemmystatus.org/
Danke!
I said that in a support post on lemmy.world, and got accused of pushing an agenda 🙃
Sorry to hear that. Based on this thread, it seems to become more and more of a general agreement
The major issue I see with Lemmy communities and Kbin magazines, is that they both rely on a single server to be up and running to even work. Sure, you can cross-post to several communities at once, but that generates one different thread per community. Add to that the fact that to even start to implement a single distributed thread properly cross-posted to several communities, they must take into account that a given user or server may be defederated from one community but not another - should the user not receive the message if at least one server bans the user, or should the user be allowed to receive it if at least one server allows the user to receive it?
Horizontal scaling could be better, probably a long-term improvement to be considered
We're back!
https://1up2down.social/lemmy
Seems like a nice instance, thanks for sharing! You might want to create a local community to discuss your instance management, who you are, etc.
I thought I’d seize the opportunity for a little self promotion, haha. You know what that’s a good shout. I might just do that. Thank you :)
You are welcome, good luck with your instance!
Server errors here too.
Thanks for letting me know. The issue was related to the incorrect configuration of pctrs. It has now been resolved and the Server Error should have subsided.
Late to respond, but I was in perfectly well just now!! Great job on getting it sorted :)
Getting server errors?
Are you saying you’re getting server errors accessing https://1up2down.social/lemmy ?
Hmm, I guess it was sporadic errors, it's fine now.
Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I’ll look into it when I get a chance.
It's probably related to the redirect.
That was my initial thought, but in the end it was related to pictrs. It was throwing sever errors due to not being able to find pictrs images.
Just as a heads up, I noticed that your user avatar doesn't seem to be loading properly, and going to it directly gives a
The image https://.... cannot be displayed because it contains errors.message, which also occurs with your instance's site logo as well. Pictrs might still be having some issues for you, or if you made any major configuration changes you may need to re-upload those images.Thanks for the heads up. You're absolutely correct. To delve a bit deeper, in case you're curious: my oversight in not mounting the mnt directory for Pictrs results in a reset of both the database and manifest each time the system restarts or updates. As a result, even though the entry is stored within my instance's object storage, the corresponding manifest and database entries are missing. I will indeed need to reupload them. Once again, thanks. On a related note, I have openings in n my moderation team. If you're interested, I would genuinely welcome the opportunity to collaborate with you. Honestly, I'd welcome the chance to collaborate with all the kind-hearted individuals in this thread who took the time to test my instance. Thanks, everyone. This is what makes Lemmy special.
I appreciate the deep dive, these sorts of things always have my interest!
And of course, if there's anywhere I can help I'd certainly be happy to!
Server errors for me as well.
Thanks for letting me know. The issue was related to the incorrect configuration of pctrs. It has now been resolved and the Server Error should have subsided.
Got one just now, sorry to tell you ha ha
Typical. I forgot to restart, it should be all good now :)
You may need to clear your cache for the new configuration to take effect, and any broken images will be fixed sequentially.
For anyone else who experiences this Server error.. In my case, I mistakenly thought pictrs ‘s docker container was fully stateless, when configured with object storage. Long story short, it isn’t. You should still mount the mnt directory as it contains db and metadata files.
Works better indeed!
While this thread has some interesting points in it, the majority of it is chaotic and confrontational. I'm closing this, as I believe we need to have a bit of a cooldown.
This is the problem with Lemmy. It's hard for it to go mainstream. :(
every site has scaling problems unfortunately.
Please come to lemmy.today if you like a small fast instance with no downvotes.
Also federates with all other instances.
I don't understand the appeal of no downvotes. Do you really think it's a good thing that trolls, bigots, dangerously wrong answers, general assholes, spam, etc can't be downvoted? I won't pretend downvotes aren't misused sometimes, but their existence is critical for quality control.
Edit: wait, I just saw you post in another thread as an "enlightened centrist", so I guess that explains it.
I saw it being misused on reddit a lot so I like it. It was common for people to use it as a "i disagree" button, which created a big echo chamber. I read that many people felt that there was no point even posting to a discussion since they knew they would be downvoted.
I think reddit really turned to shit, and I was hoping Lemmy could take another direction here. You can still upvote to support your opinions riding to the top without needing to downvote someone.
I understand this is a hot topic for many though. I guess it depends on what your previous experiences at reddit has been.
And also you mention the word quality control. I'm not sure the majority is some kind of a quality control. I rather hear people's opinions and make up my own mind. It would feel weird to have other people push down comments I may want to read.
Not to mention the other instances have it enabled. So anytime federated with them can downvote them, but they can't downvoted each other.
I can't seem to find the source right now (so take this with a grain of salt), but someone did check the Lemmy codebase to look into this scenario - if an instance has downvotes disabled, it won't propagate incoming downvotes.
I know that on my instance which does have downvotes enabled, if I check out any post from Beehaw (who does have downvotes disabled) there are zero downvotes on any comments as far as I can see.
Now I'm assuming this would only apply on communities hosted on that (or any downvote-disabled) instance, using my previous example if someone from Beehaw were to comment on a community originating
lemmy.ml, I believe they could still have their comments downvoted sincelemmy.mlwould be "hosting" the comment, so to speak.@Blaze @1984 Federating with ALL other instances isn't a good prospect either...
Thanks for sharing this. Do you have a second admin for your instance?
It's not my instance, I just use it and like it. The instance lists only one admin. Is it common with several?
With very small instances (less than 100 members), yes, it's usually the case.
The main risk is the admin disappearing overnight, which already happened in the past for some quite big instances (vlemmy.net)
Fair point and I would assume the admin is open to sharing responsibilities once the instance grows. Can ask him. :)
Lemmy's machine-generated ORM SQL and hand-made flawed PostgreSQL TRIGGER logic is so bad, bloated. The developers on GitHub brag about "high performance". It's unbeliable.
In reality, small instances work because it has so many SQL performance problems that it mostly only is stable with little posts and comments in the database. They dd everything they could to avoid using Lemmy itself to discuss !lemmyperformance@lemmy.ml topics and hang out on Matrix Chat to avoid using the constantly-crashing servers they created.
If you go to a server with no users creating comments and posts and only has a tiny amount of data, it does crash a lot less.
Oh geez, why would the Lemmy developers want to do any kind of discussions with you over at the !lemmyperformance@lemmy.ml community, which you moderate?
I see you think that their behavior has only been since June 2, 2023 when I created my account.
The problems with them avoiding Lemmy, "eating their own dog food", to discuss !postgresql@lemmy.ml have noting to do with me. They hang out on Matrix Chat and do not ask for Rust or PostgreSQL help to their constantly crashing code.
Your style of arguing is to say I wear glasses and have "4 eyes", childish. You obviously can't go see they created a new Rust front-end on Github all on your own .... and that it was not me personally who created GitHub issue 2910 on June 4, 2023 - almost a month before the Reddit API change.,
Is it the pro-China stance that you like about the developers?
Matrix is a better discussion platform than Lemmy, as one is messaging focused, and the other is a message board. Why are you against Matrix? There's nothing to discuss on !postgresql@lemmy.world because as far as that community is concerned, it's dead.
You call me childish when you were the one that retaliated against the developers by creating rubbish issues? Ironic.
What's with you and your obsession with China? From how much are accusing people of being pro-china, you sure love being on @lemmy.ml, the instance run by the developers.
Actually they were sincere questions. I am not retaliating. I want to know why they are doing it. But you seem to want to avoid that.
it is disturbing how they are behaving and the cult following they are cultivating by having their servers crash all the time to get donations/etc. It's like someone faking cancer. And you seem to be unable to study the code and see just how easy it was to fix the mistakes they went so far out of their way to not correct.
It is you who thinks such manipulation of an audience, the server installers and the creators of content, is defensible. I watched them cover-up a PostgreSQL question as fast as they could when 0.18.3 report came in on install. It was highly disturbing and bewildering to witness this. Why do they want servers to crash?
It was not crashing every 10 minutes of every day due to SQL TRIGGER code that the developers ignored.
Which also makes... Matrix the better discussion platform? What's your issue against Matrix?
I think Lemmy project creators work 9 to 5, for 4 years, and want to collect money. They do not use Lemmy. That's my point. They prefer Matrix. That's my point. They don't use Lemmy or care that it crashes all the time, they keep adding new features and the server crashing they consider acceptable.
They even brag and boast on Github that lemmy is "high performance", and that it has "full delete" when these are not factually true and it is low-performance code and does not delete, it crashes on delete. Is it their self-deception or the audience they are deceiving, or both?
Again, what's your point? Lemmy belongs to them, they can do whatever they want with it. Don't like it, fork it. What's your goal?
a world where peace, love, and compassion are favored by people and people voluntarily support goodness.
It's become clear that what bothers you so much, what you are trying to do is drive off conversation. You care about the machines delivering your content. I actually care that people have self-awareness in the audience of the media they use. Not have blind faith that "fork it" actually is all that matters, and ignore teachers like Marshall McLuhan or Neil Postman who think it is important consumers of media are able to see how their own brain works instead of thinking "fork it" is all that matters, code.
I think audiences could use a website like Wikipedia to do news, instead they favor websites like Reddiit,, Twitter, Lemmy where the main focus is to sort by NEW and get FRESH "breaking news" without accuracy. A rumor mill of rushed information that is often inaccurate or distorted for the purposes of selling adverting/marketing/product placement. I don't think the cost or "fork it" technology of Wikipedia style sites is the problem, I think the issue is audiences have become addicted to and seek out poor-quality information so they can argue about it. A Wikipedia system with edit history and citations would put an end to too many debates and arguments that people seem to seek on rapid "refresh" social media.
I think humanity has gone from the information age to the disinformation age, and I think it is self-destruction, a major war or other self-destruction brewing.
If you have the answer, and have had it for over a month, create the PR for it. Why is that an insult to you?
Why can't you say the same thing about the Lemmy developers? They are the ones who installed the mistake. now suddenly others have to fix their mistakes for them? It's really odd how you deflect from their responsibility.
If you were, you wouldn't be trying to incite conflict by accusing everyone of being pro-China or pro-CCP, or going off on a rant on America's social media companies.
Well, I'm nice, I don't want to hurt your brain further by engaging in pointless conversation with you.
How the flying spaghetti meatball monster fuck is this relevant to your rant over how you were getting sidelined on GitHub?
Okay, get off Lemmy then, why are you helping the Lemmy developers to the point of hurting your brain? You are nothing but full of contradictory statements. Nothing is keeping you here, if you don't want to be here, leave. It is that simple.
It's funny how you are projecting. You do not want ME here, you keep telling me to leave. If I wanted to leave, i would have left But you seem very confused. Simple flippant dismissal seems to be your approach to complexity.
You are absolutely right, I think you being here is actually hurting you. You already have so much on your plate to deal with, I certainly don't think it's right that you have to shoulder through the pain your brain gets when you type. You should take care of yourself more, and not put yourself through more pain.
"everyone', yha. You really think Lemmy is "everyone", or you lie and deceive that at least.
I think people are pro-authority in their religion to books about dead people; It doesn't even have to be a living China government. Even the machines or an application code can be what you are loyal to. But they like the power, attracted to even the server crashes, spectacle.
You commanded that I "fork Lemmy", that I code, that hurs my brian too. But you lack comassion and enjoy mocking weakness.
Do you even know who Neil Postman is, is that why you think nothing is relevant to how Lemmy is run? That would explain why you think it isn't relevant, because you never heard of Neil Postman. He did die decades back, so it wouldn't surprise me. It must be easier for you to jsut give flippant replies "how the flying fukc" instead of actually learning or reading a book from Neil Postman.
"Fork it", "wtf", you like simplistic answers to difficult problems. Clearly you would not spend hundreds of hours testing fLemmy and watching the developers before posting something like I did this past few days. It's really sad to see your total faith and blind faith in action.
I can see why you might have never read something from Neil Postman and responded as if it was off-topic to social media applications and their cultures.
No, why should I know who he is? How is he relevant to how Lemmy is run? How are my replies relevant to whatever Neil Postman wrote? Can you elaborate?
Well, your efforts clearly did not achieve your desired results, so forking the project, and starting your own Lemmy-alternative seems like the logical next step no?
Again, why do you keep bringing up American authors?
Wow. Who stole your candy?
Cambridge Analytica in 2014 seems to have turned much of the online population attitude to that of dismissing human beings in favor of memes and disinformation. and the player who seeded anti-vaccination topics since 2013 on the Internet, that was documented in 2018 by John Hopkins university. my "candy" would have been teachers like Carl Sagan having enough students in the population that junk information wasn't saturation... but since 2014 junk just seems to keep growing and expanding.
You're rocketderp based on your instability I'm guessing? Looks like your the only one that is nonsensical in that thread. Your PR isn't a PR. You were rushing to someone that was being helpful but you still acted like a child with your advise of GitHub bugs and PRs and not using them properly. The other person in agreement with you at least is calm and rational. I'm guessing you never worked on a group project before or have had anyone disagree with you. Your commits broke the pipeline. Someone even tried calling you down, but you wouldn't listen.
You aren't the victim here. You're the bully.
Yes. My name is Stephen Alfred Gutknecht. It is clearly detailed here on my profile that I am "RocketDerp" on GitHub.
Issue 2910? The word "nonsense" is being discussed about a Lemmy TRIGGER on June 4, 2023.
You would be guessing wrong. Since late 2019 I am in constant mental anguish and barely surviving. My communications is a constant struggle and I openly disclose this so that it is understood, I am not attempting to cover it up.
The "i'm guessing" game. And I note you can't actually cite the Github issues by number (2910) or keep details here in fact. A lot of "guessing" going on.
"guessing" again. Should I guess you do not know how difficult or easy it is to remove a TRIGGER in PostgreSQL that is causing server crashes?
Why do you think this is about "me"? I haven't donated money to the project or had blind faith in the developers.
I'm beyond frustrated that they seem to be going so far out of their way to have servers crash that their motives for doing so need explanation. "Social hazing" is the best answer I can come up with. I've now outright asked why they are dong it, because the pattern of behavior with trying to let server crashes has been going on now for months.
I have to admit that it's amazing the number of people they have attracted with the server crashing. It's been a social experience in some ways like Elon Musk is doing with Twitter. Perhaps it bothers me when other people actually seem to enjoy it. That seems to be the hiveMind reaction here. In that sense, if it is "social hazing", it has worked very well.
No.
The feature you suggest be ripped out is one that many people like. I've seen people say they hate Mastodon because "Likes" are only counted on the local server and they feel it's useless. You can't just suggest rip it out without a fix in its place.
Do we even know the read/write operations of the database are what's pulling it down when it crashes? Sure it's not the best code I've seen, but on large instances it still manages quite the uptime. Without insight into the cause of the crashes, you can't honestly say "this, this right here." Could it help? Probably. Do you need to suggest someone enjoys murdering people because they don't immediately implement something? Probably not.
Just because you can't think of another reason why they didn't listen to you, it doesn't mean that the one you thought of is correct. That's not how logic works. It's narcissistic to believe that you can think of every explanation for something that's happening.
ok, I've come to terms. I posed an apology just now on github, and I apologize to you.
I see now that people value the social outcomes of how they run the project far more than I realized.
I didn't say anything, I was entirely silent, when the June 4 2023 issue 2910 was opened. So I don't grasp why you think this is all about me. I never thought this was about me. The June 30 Reddit API deadline was what I thought this was all about when I was witnessing this.
I didn't do pull request and add a new developer in the mix in June because it was such an easy problem to fix. It was when on June 13 that they still had not responded to the June 4 issue 2910 and did hardware upgrades on lemmy.ml that I started to interpret the situation differently. Instead of responding to Issue 2910 on Github, that same day on June 13 I started organizing Lemmy-specific PostgreSQL instructions on !lemmyperformance@lemmy.ml because servers were crashing even after the hardware upgrades.
I now realize, today, that my whole approach to this comes from experience running PostgreSQL in "mission critical" applications. What I have done with DB/2 and PostgreSQL wasn't driven by social loyalty and "Taking on the Big Guys of Reddit and Twitter" that happens here. I've been all wrong to think that the developers don't know exactly what they are doing. It's like criticizing Hollywood for spending 3 million dollars on sets and clothes for 90 seconds of a film. I should have realized I was not understanding that social media sites run by social behavior models, not by technology concerns.
Elon Musk has done wild things since he took over Twitter and I didn't take it so personal. I guess it was my memories and personal experience with PostgreSQL that haunted me too much. I was wrong. And i see how the lemmy community is loyal, so I can see just how wrong I am about the choices being made.
You jumping to politics and weird accusations of folks supporting murder as being the only reason they didn't fix a postgres bug because, by your own words, you couldn't think of any other reason.
You clearly have issues communicating and you are admittedly self aware yet you refuse to ever believe maybe those issues are the root of your arguments.
I could list 50 reasons I could think of. Many of which would be even more offensive. I didn't sit patiently by watching June 4 issue 2910 go ignored because I was trying to over-react. In fact, I couldn't believe what I was seeing as they upgraded hardware June 13 and continued to ignore the June 4 issue on Github. Even further when June 30 deadline for Reddit API came.
I have been very wrong in how I dealt with it this past 10 days, as I did not come to understand how much the community has come to enjoy the environment of Lemmy. Talking to you has enlightened now just how socially driven the whole platform is and that any training and experiences I have running mission-critical apps with PostgreSQL and DB2 on production servers do not apply here and I should have realized just how wrong my social interpretation of the situation has become.
It's like watching the recent Nolan film release of Oppenheimer on IMAX. The massive size of the platters and how projectors have run into problems on opening night / first few days of showings. It's about the style and cool factors, just because Lemmy uses PostgreSQL I considered reliability to be important, but now I clearly see I socially failed to understand how much the community here has come to adore Lemmy history and progression.
Rock Stars being criticized about their style and use of the technology was a huge mistake on my part. It's all about putting on entertainment people like and the fans of the project are loyal to how it is done. I have been far too slow to recognize the "cool factor" of the Rock Star cultivation happening in front of me. I'm worried about the tire engine maintenance costs on an exotic sports car that draws huge crowds. Sorry I did not grasp that the crowds were so enamored and how that drives the project choices.
Heavy drinking, first time since New Years, reset my brain and I now re-interpret everything I learned about Lemmy history in a new light.
You're spamming this all over this thread. Why don't you go create a PR instead? If you think you have a better solution then go discuss it with the people who have the full context and try to get it fixed instead of complaining here.
It's amazing how you have fallen hook line and sinker into believing that the problem is difficult to solve. It's the agenda that is the problem.
They have people like you who will not read actual code to see that they only care about the fact that "Rust is cool programming language" and crashing code doesn't get any priority.
They even started a new front-end Rust application this month, because they don't care to bother with the core of the site, PostgreSQL doing INSERT and SELECT statements to load comments.
If the problem is easy to solve, then go solve it, open a PR, and come back here once you've done so.
If you're going to signal that something needs to be done, and you want people to join you in supporting that belief, then actually put something forward that people can get behind. What would me getting angry alongside you actually accomplish? If there was a PR then the community could go and say "Here is a solution, here's why we think it's worth merging" and a discussion could actually be had.
Instead you're just giving rhetoric about how they don't want to solve this without any evidence, actually creating a PR and having it rejected would be all the anyone needs to see to support your opinion, so go do it.
I've have merged PR's in the Lemmy repos. Don't assume you know anything about me or my position, because you don't. I don't have any particular stance on Rust and if this is actually an issue it's one I'd like to see resolved, so go open a PR and get the conversation started instead of whinging here.
Are you referring to this repo that Dessalines forked and hasn't made a single commit against? That hardly seems like they're abandoning the current frontend and more like a dev messing around with various tech as we all do.
If you know what's wrong, and you know how to fix it, then either put up or shut up. Go make a PR and fix the problem and show us that they rejected the PR because they're not interested in improving performance. There's folks like Phiresky actually making meaningful contributions to the backend to help improve Postgre performance, something both dessalines and nutomic have said they're not well experts in. Be like Phiresky, actually put your code where your mouth is.
Lastly, I don't know if you were aware of this, but the Lemmy devs don't owe you anything. Even less so if you're not actually contributing code or money to help move this project forward.
Why... That isn't going to get in installed on the servers they are running. I failed to see that this is a "Rock Star" culture, and the audience does not interpret months of Issue 2910 getting no attention as a problem. There are social forces that are non-technical, and I wildly misinterpreted the situation. You personally have really made the case to me just how wrong I am. Again, I am sorry I made such a fuss and misunderstood.
Why... That isn't going to get in installed on the servers they are running. I know the change was not difficult for anyone to do. I failed to see that this is a "Rock Star" culture. Look at how you know them by names, and how much you respect that. I just didn't appreciate the 4 years of style and fashion so fully.
Such an interesting discussion. Do you believe Reddit owes you something? Do you believe Linux owes you something? Such a interesting topic.
This has nothing to do with rockstar culture and everything to do with the fact that you're spending 10x the amount of typing complaining about an issue than it would have taken you to just go and fix it and be done with this. So either you don't want it fixed because you prefer to complain and die on your sword, or you don't know how to fix it.
Either way I'm done with the conversation. If there is actually an issue I expect someone else who is actually levelheaded and reasonable will identify it and submit a PR. Because that's how you improve open source software, not by throwing tantrums and making wild assumptions about peoples agendas. Go touch grass or something.
Then I'm confused, because that was my own idea.
I'm no longer complaining, you convinced me, I love them like Rock Stars now and I have formally apologized and explained how wrong I was in my thinking because of my past memories of running mission-critical PostgreSQL servers. Are we clear now? It's all about Style and Fashion, and I got way too worked up about crashes.
I don't get this. Why are you making it about me? Do you think I am the one who opened GitHub issue 2910? Is that your accusation? That I created a fake account and opened issue 2910? I was not worried about me. Even in June I was not worried about me personally. I was worried about the person who opened the issue, is that understandable to you?
I was worried about Reddit users encountering server crashes. This isn't about one person, me. This is about thousands of people and a June 30 deadline.
But 12 hours ago, I have turned direction. I did not realize just the kind of culture and "Rock Star" attitude that was going. I was focused on Reddit June 30, and I didn't see that the social conventions were far more important than server crashes. It was a mistake for me to be worried so much about data and crashes when that isn't the culture here. I am finding everything thinks it is "cool" and "fine" that it took over a month for 2910 to be resolved. I never expected that, it was me who was socially out of touch.
I really got lost socially and regret my attitude problem. I should have learned back in March with Elon Musk running Twitter now, that the rules for social media cultures are vastly different than my measures for what would consider to be "cool" regarding a server crash issue. Not one person has said that 2910 should have been addressed within 3 or 4 days of being created. So I know now that it is me who has to change.
Do you think the issue isn't fixed or something? This is a postmortem discussion. You seem confused. Or do you think some other confusion, like I'ts about me personally in Issue 2910?
That's an interesting community.