What books do you consider must reads?
So basically I was unschooled, and the amount of books I've read in my life is embarrassingly low. It was never emforced like in a school, and with my family's religious hangups, I never tried getting into new things because I never knew what would be deemed "offensive".
But I'm always interested when I hear people talk about both storycraft and also literary criticism, so I want to take an earnest stab at getting into books.
No real criteria, I don't know what I like so I can't tell you what I'm looking for, other than it needs to be in English or have an English translation. Just wanna know what y'all think would make good or important reading.
ETA holy shit thanks for all the suggestions! Definitely gonna make a list
ETA if I reply extremely late it's because it took me this long to get a library card in my new locale.
The dystopic books that warn us of what we could be.
1984, Fahrenheit 451, Brave New World, Animal Farm, The Giver (and yes, you should still read The Giver even if you're an adult if you've never read it before).
But the first book that flashed through my mind when I read the question was Slaughterhouse Five.
Ah yes, all those books whose plots are being used as manuals these days. :( lol
The Giver was really neat. Accessible too. The movie adaptation was such a bad idea because I thought one of its strengths was how it was set in an ambiguous time, iirc. The reader's visuals seemed really important for that story.
Hmm, considering your religious upbringing you might want to try some absurdist literature to break the mold.
These are accessible too, as you're not used to reading yet.
I can also recommend subscribing to a monthly magazine and making a point to read it from cover to cover. That way your skills will improve. You can also buy a whole stack of old national geographics cheaply. This will expand your horizons.
Oh yes definitely The Little Prince is a must-read.
HHGttG is a must.
As far as good storytelling, some of my favs are:
I have a very long ranked list, but there's a few.
I really loved The Three Musketeers and The Count of Monte Cristo. I was surprised at how well they held up over time.
Is the three musketeers really on par with the count? I've been meaning to read it for months but I always got the sense it would be disappointing.
Maybe unpopular opinion here, but I just read The Three Musketeers, and it's not even close to The Count of Monte Cristo.
The characters wildly change in tone and basic morals, the heroes are dirtbags, and the plot wanders.
I still enjoyed it, but it just wasn't the same.
I only read the Count, and I loved it
No. The Count of Monte Cristo is a much better and deeper novel, but The Three Musketeers is much lighter and more fun. They're both good reads for different reasons.
I think so. It's top-tier adventure storytelling. The sequels are also great.
The sequels are worth it.
You know, I was on vacation and saw a newer translation of The Arabian Nights and pondered getting it for a REALLY long time before deciding not to spend all my money on the first day of my trip. Thank you for reminding me, gonna put it on my list!
No probs! I'm obsessed with adventure stories, and you can't get much better than 1001 nights.
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
The best five-book trilogy you'll ever read, even though there are six of them.
I hope you're referring to the unfinished compilation Salmon of Doubt as the sixth, and not that weak sub-fanfic tripe by Eoin Colfer.
Fahrenheit 451 is certainly worth a read. I read it late in life, and could see immediately why it's so often read in schools. Very well written, and a compelling story.
Another book that you may find quite personally compelling is The Chrysalids by John Wyndham (Archive.org has a free audio book version), due to the themes it covers.
+1 for The Chrysalids .... read it on English class in high school and loved it
While other books have made a larger personal impact, Piranesi is a wonderful, easy to read mystery novel with a charming, innocent protagonist that I wish I could read for the first time all over again.
It's only a couple hundred pages as well, as opposed to the thousand page monsters many people love.
Seconding this book. It's one of the best books I've read this decade.
Piranesi is a real gem, I ran across it last year and it was absolutely delightful.
I know! I love Piranesi as a character, the way he sees the world and justifies it is charming. Read it a few weeks ago and it hasn't left my head, I hadn't been so enthralled by a book since I was a kid.
It left a big impression on me as well, the world the way he sees it is so peaceful and tranquil, but then you start gradually realizing the horrific situation he's actually in. And this contrast between the way the character perceives his circumstances and the reality of the situation is kind of haunting.
It's really well-written, absolutely. Wish I could wipe it from my mind and read it again anew.
It is rare that you run a book that sucks you in the way Piranesi does.
For literature I find 100 years of Solitude to be without equal. An absolute joy to read.
For nonfiction I have learned so much from 1491. It was recommended to me by a friend though I have never heard of it elsewhere. The premise is that basically everything we think about Native Americans before Columbus arrived is wrong. I could go on but here is one tidbit: we tend to think of Native Americans as peoples without government. Now of course there are so many different groups of peoples all over the Americas and across so many eras it’s foolish to even think of them as being this way or that way because who and when are you referring to? But there were many types of government. In fact the Incas were total bureaucrats! Anyway I’m doing a poor job selling it i know but it’s a great read.
For self-help try How to Win Friends and Influence People. I know the title sounds like it’s a guide to manipulation but it’s really not. It’s 100 years old but still holds up so well. Times change, but people don’t, you know what I mean? People 100 years later still appreciate it when you remember their name and look them in the eye and make time to listen.
May I ask, why did you like 100 years of solitude? Did you read it in Spanish or translated to another language? I read it in Spanish and can appreciate a lot of good things in it, but I always wonder how it feels like for people who don't have a latin/Spanish background. Perhaps you do, I don't know. Still curious!
Ursula Le Guin's the dispossessed is pretty impactfull. Very confronting anarchist utopia that is not a Paradise.
The lions of al rassan by guy gavriel Kay (worked on the silmarillion). A deeply melencholic fictional reflection on the reconquista of the Iberian peninsula.
The liveship traders by Robin Hobb has the best realised characters in fiction I've ever seen. Jaw dropping craft.
And finally, an entire shelf of book: The malazan book of the fallen. you will laugh, you will cry, and in the end you will love compassion.
Yeah you can't go wrong with Ursula Le Guin IMO. I loved The Left Hand of Darkness too.
Also 'cause I love sharing it, her 2014 book award speech is worth a read as well:
I've heard that about The Dispossessed. I tried to listen to it on audiobook and the narration was terrible, so I just couldn't get far into it. I need to pick up a physical or digital copy.
Oh, and Malazan is great. That one took me two tries to really get into as well, mostly because I initially had trouble keeping track of so many characters.
100% read it. I think most things aren't "must reads" even my favourite stories, but some have such unique ideas or skillful execution that if you enjoy literature you owe it to yourself to read them.
There's obviously a very large list, I suggested some I didn't think would be represented here. The dispossessed is a short read and uncomplex in its construction and pros so it's easy to squeeze in a chapter here and there or before bed.
Idk if you will agree it's a must read, that's obviously quite subjective, but I highly doubt you'll find the time you spent with it unsatisfying.
Discword series is really good. - very witty comedy with subtle commentary about real world
I wouldn't say it's must read but I can't reccomend it highly enough: "Ascendance of a Bookworm" - an slow adventure about a girl struggling with an unknown disease in another world, and all she wants is to read books.
you can also hang out in !chat@literature.cafe and tell about your experience.
I'm not sure how subtle discworld really is 🤣
All the Pretty Horses and The Crossing are beautiful western novels by Cormac McCarthy. Both are very much “a boy and his horse” kind of stories about learning to be yourself. They’re loosely related and there’s a third book that brings the boys together and concludes their stories
The Jungle and Oil! by Upton Sinclair are novelizations of Sinclair’s investigative journalism work in the meat packing industry and the nascent workers rights movement respectively. Oil! was very loosely adapted into the film There Will Be Blood (the film covers maybe the first 3-4 chapters by greatly expanding upon the material
Hatchet by Gary Paulsen was a very impactful book for me as a child. It’s a YA novel, but still worth a read. The main character Brian survives a plane crash in the Canadian wilderness and is forced to find a way to survive on his own
A few more recent novels that I enjoyed:
Prophet Song by Paul Lynch. Won the 2024 Booker Prize (best English language novel) about an authoritarian government taking power in Ireland and how that unfolds from the perspective of a mother with young children. It’s a hard read, but very well written
Our Share of Night by Mariana Enriquez. Translated into English. A friend described it as “sexy witches in South America deal with authoritarian rule.” And that’s pretty close…
Same Bed Different Dreams by Ed Park. A semi-fictionalized history of the Korean Peninsula and the desire to have a unified identity. Many people come to the peninsula (same bed) with very different goals for its use (different dreams). Really fascinating book and engaging
Tomorrow, and Tomorrow and Tomorrow by Gabrielle Zevin. Follows a trio of friends as they explore the world of video game design. Starts in the early 80s and runs through the 2000s. Reminder me very much of the show Halt and Catch Fire.
My Friends by Hisham Matar. Follows a Libyan immigrant living in England in the 80s through 2010s as he wrestles with his identity, his homeland, his friends and family. Khaled’s closest friends serve as foils to his own feelings, reacting to the same circumstances very differently from himself
Hatchet was such a powerful book when I was a kid. I bet it still holds up, so maybe I should reread it soon.
I've been thinking the same myself. I remember it having such an impact on me as a kid.
The only McCarthy book at my library was The Passenger. The librarian told me I was brave and that last time she checked out a McCarthy book, she needed therapy.
Absolutely not what you recommended but I'm in for a treat.
The Passenger is mild… but only half the story. You want to read the companion novel Stella Maris too
Some of his books are fucked up. The Road and Blood Meridian are stomach turning, gut-wrenching explorations of the awful side of humans.
All the Pretty Horses is: young man likes horses. Moves to Mexico to work on a ranch. Young man falls in love with woman. Hijinks. horses. Done
Ooh OK, good to know! I've read excerpts of The Road that made me cry from descriptions alone. I wasn't wasn't sure how his other works compare.
My friend is obsessed with The Road so I'm sure I'll read it somewhere down the line. I'm just starting with what I can check out for free right now.
From a philosophy standpoint, Victor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning. It's a brutally tough read, but a very interesting perspective of a Holocaust survivor and some of the more "mundane" parts (which were still horrific) in between the parts most people know about. The philosophy that follows is interesting.
It's certainly not without it's faults and criticisms, though.
Especially if you're new to reading, the books worth reading are the ones you enjoy reading.
Like anything else reading is a skill and you get better at it the more you do it. There's a reason we don't start kindergarteners on Tolstoy and Shakespeare.
There are great suggestions in this thread so I'm not going to suggest any more. But I'd recommend to start every new book with an open mind, but if you're not "feeling it" by page 10 or 20 it's 100% okay to put it down and try a different one.
You can always come back to it later. Or not. There are more "must read" books than can ever be read in a lifetime. Find the ones you enjoy and which make an impact on you.
The Stranger by Albert Camus, Franny & Zooey by JD Salinger, Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov, and the entire short story collection of Edgar Allan Poe
Wholeheartedly agree with The Stranger, but I think most people would not quite get it/appreciate its theme.
How about some pre-transhuman solarpunk? I recommend my favorite book, Walkaway by Cory Doctorow. It's about the birth pangs of a post scarcity society. Absolutely brilliant.
I don't mean to be replying to every post on this thread--I guess I love a lot of books--, but I'm going to have to recommend these in particular for people who don't usually read.
I had this friend in college who had never read a book of his own volition. He wasn't the sort of person who was proud of the fact, he just thought books were boring and had trouble getting through them. This horrified me, as somebody who had a collection of some 500 books or so at that point (almost all of them read). Anyway, he read Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and then Catch-22, and he was hooked. He's been a reader ever since.
Lots of great suggestions involving story craft and the like, so I'll target the "religious hangups" bit with a couple non-fiction books:
Sentience by Nicholas Humphrey (great to get a perspective on consciousness and sentience that isn't marred with religious doctrine)
Determined by Robert Sapolsky (a primatologist with a knack for getting you comfortable with the notion that we don't have as free a will as religion tells us)
And just to include a bit of fiction:
Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky (about life as we know it, or maybe as we don't)
Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros (deals with overwritten cultures. Also dragons.)
The best science fiction has to offer:
Metro 2033
Sphere
Jurassic Park
Roadside Picnic
Metamorphosis
Add from Stephen King:
Night Shift
4 Minutes to Midnight
(Both are novellas/story collections)
And also:
The Call of Cthulhu and other weird tales
Your "best of sf" doesn't include many recognized classics. That's weird. No LeGuin, no Bester?
Only classics? Geez. OP, forget my recommendations.
Correct answer:
https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/g39358054/best-sci-fi-books/
https://thegreatestbooks.org/lists/359
I'm a week late but I never specified classics! I kept my request vague for a reason, I'm looking for variety. :) So I appreciate the recs.
I agree with more than one of these, but I would call out The Metamorphosis as one that everybody should read. You can appreciate it at any age (well, within reason--maybe not for the 8-year-olds), it's dramatic and captivating, and it's short.
I always try to recommend books of short stories to my friends who like to read but don't have much time for it.
Michael Crichton in a list of "best sci-fi"? Really? He just does mass market pulp. It can be entertaining, in the same way a Transformers movie can, but it hardly qualifies as "best".
I’ve read some of Crichton’s other books, not all but a few, and I get it. I wouldn’t rate them so high. But I don’t consider these two to be that kind of book.
No idea what your reading level is, but here are some of the suggestions I've made to customers recently:
Harry Potter, if for no other reason than the cultural impact
Ender's Game: children being taught to be elite military officers
Small Gods: satirizes religion, religious institutions, etc. If you ever want to read Discworld, this is a very good starting point
We Free Men: also Discworld, but YA-focused and about a girl who becomes a witch
Lamb, the Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal: author imagines what Jesus and his BFF Biff were doing for those thirty years missing not recorded in the Bible.
Kindred: a woman starts to travel back in time to the pre-Civil War South. She can't control it and she doesn't know why. Probably Butler's most accessible novel.
A Canticle for Leibowitz: humanity nuked itself back to the early medieval period and this one holy order watches it rebuild. It's hard to describe this book in a satisfactory way without just summarizing it, but it's one of my favorites and I've read it multiple times
The Giver: YA dystopian novel about a very structured society and the kid who is able to see through it. The sequels aren't too bad either
The Hobbit: much easier to read than Lord of the Rings, but full of the same heroics plus dragons, dwarves and a clever hero
I'd happily recommend anything by Brandon Sanderson, I generally find everything he writes to be an easy read.
Also, get an account at your local library, it's much easier/cheaper to fly through books that way. Tip: if your library sucks, many libraries will accept you as local if you work in the town. (I belong to two library systems this way)
I can never stop recommending The Long Way To A Small, Angry Planet by Becky Chambers.
Its some of the most beautiful, cozy writing I've ever had the pleasure of reading, all wrapped in queer and race allegory and science fiction splendour.
Please read it.
I'm reading that right now and it's fantastic! I was reading a horror series that just got too bleek, a friend recommended The Long Way To A Small, Angry Planet and I'm really enjoying it. I'm a slow reader so it takes me a while to get through a book but I'm definitely going to finish this one.
I can't recommend enough that you read the sequel too! There's even more but I haven't read them yet. Its all just so good and cozy and yum.
Godel, Escher, Bach
Infinite Jest
The Lord of the Rings
The Demon-Haunted World
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Slaughterhouse-Five
Small Gods
Master and Commander
and everything else written by those authors.
The first two or three on that list might take several fits and starts to get through, YMMV, but they are WELL worth the effort, and you will come out the other side changed by the experience. The others are all pretty easily digestible, but no less transformative.
Christ I know so many people who love this book, but I can never make it past the first few pages. Something about the giddy tone that the author uses to tell you exactly how you should feel at any given time just feels hard to stomach. Just present the facts and their connections in a concise manner, and let me feel my own sense of awe. Don't rob me of my own excitement by trying to imprint yours onto mine.
The rest of the books, solid recommendations.
Thanks for the suggestions! I gotta make a list when I get home. I haven't heard of a few of these so that should be exciting.
I'm anticipating this, not too worried. I have trouble comprehending thick prose, but part of why I'm asking for recs is because I won't improve if I don't try.
I loved having LOTR read to me as a kid so maybe it's time to revisit it.
Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein is one the books I read during my formative years that I still think about a lot.
If you like graphic novels, The Sandman by Neil Gaiman is fantastic. Great writing and great artwork.
Funny. I absolutely hated Stranger in a Strange Land. It felt like a 14-year-old boy's fantasy/im14andiamsmart. Pretentious and masturbatory.
Maybe I would have loved it if I read it when I was 14 instead of when I was something like 22.
It's actually my go-to example for a book that I dislike. I think it's the only book I've really actually hated. I would have just thought it was tripe if it hadn't taken such a wonderful title away. Now there will never be a good book with that fantastic title.
Stranger has a point where you can feel in your body the whiplash of the change in tone. After the middle point Heinlein was blocked for years, and when he continued the result was grotesque.
When you start reading dialog about what happens in Heaven, when the story started as proper sf, you know that the author lost the plot (literally and figuratively).
I liked it until about half way through, it seemed to lose all the intrigue and then there was the weird bit about rape (if I remember correctly) at which point I gave up. Shame because it started well.
Won't be taking very much of your time:
Kafka's The Trial, Shelley's Frankenstein, Machiavelli's Prince, Rulfo's Pedro Paramo
Just to avoid naming the very obvious ones.
Solid choices.
It’s YA but I suggest Hatchet because it’s the book I remember actually making an impression on me.
That is an excellent suggestion. I would also like to add Jack London's To Build A Fire for a similar impact.
Ben Franklin’s Autobio, Black Elk Speaks, Slaughterhouse Five
Recently, I really enjoyed the scholomance trilogy by Naomi Novik. Had anti capitalist themes and cool world building. main character can be a little polaraizing though, she can be "b wordy" for lack of a better less misogynistic term coming to mind, I've seen some talk about how much they hated her character and others how much they loved her (I personally loved her)
as an aside, https://annas-archive.org/ is your friend for getting books for free!
It is always hard to pick just one, but I usually pick either one of the culture novels, or Sophie's World by Jostein Gaarder.
Grapes Of Wrath, John Steinbeck. And probably Of Mice And Men.
I also come from a religious family, which is why I say: For a fun read, please read Lamb, the Gospel According to Biff by Christopher Moore. Honestly, everything by Kurt Vonnegut, but if I have to pick, Harrison Bergeron is one of the best short stories I have ever read, and I carry Cat's Cradle in my heart.
Someone else suggested Catch-22, and I consider it a must read.
The Sun Also Rises is my favorite cock-and-bull story, but also, incredible for learning how to read critically. What I mean is, Hemingway is a 2 for 1 deal. There's the story that's written out, but when you read it again, you see everything he didn't say is a whole different story. Hemingway was a very deliberate writer, every word chosen for a reason, so when reading his work, it enhances the experience to ask yourself why he would choose to write that way.
But if you want some real good recommendations, I suggest finding a banned books list.
Lamb was great! Really does a fantastic job of highlighting the hypocrisy inherent in modern religious constructs.
It depends on what you are looking for.
Look at the classics, some can be a bit heavy. But there is generally a reason they are considered classic stories.
The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentlemen
Most things by Henry James
James Joyce has a good catalogue, I recommend treating a book like the Odyssey as a college course and reading prerequisite reading such as A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man and the original Odyssey (and it's precursor the Iliad).
This should be a good years worth on its own!
The Mountain, The Brothers Karamazov, and The Magus.
Cloud Atlas.
All of HP Lovecraft's stories.
For nonfiction I would recommend books about media criticism and history. Manufacturing consent and The Jakarta Method, for example. These can help set you up for further reading. For media criticism, it will help you recognize when to keep reading about the people that journalists talk to and who they don't, why they are writing this article rather than that one, and identify others that take a media critical approach, as they are good people to read. For history, I think it is good to read widely and critically. We are not taught particularly thorough or accurate history in school. Much is left out or glossed over with selective narratives. For example, I was taught that the US Civil War was about states' rights, not slavery, because the text was from Texas and my teacher taught from the book. This was, of course, nonsense. A People's History of The United States is a pretty good way to start out if you want to start with US history. That might be better than The Jakarta Method, actually.
For fiction, it really depends on what you enjoy! What kinds of stories or topics do you find most interesting?
im a piers anthoy fan and his incarnation of immortality series is his known magnus opa but the geodesy serries is the real one. foundation was isaac asimovs but he ends up sorta combining a bunch of his work into all one mega world. his ip is really undervalued. nine princes of amber for zelazny. The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever for donaldson. river of the dancing gods is neat. oh there are many really
a few books that I found enjoyable recently
+1 for the whole Culture series of books. My personal favourite is Look to Windward but they're all good.
Yeah, it's a good series overall.
The Narrow Road to the Deep North by Richard Flanagan. Kalki by Gore Vidal. The Old Man and the Sea by Ernest Hemingway. His Dark Materials trilogy by Philip Pullman. Starve Acre by Andrew Michael Hurley. Lord of the Flies by William Golding. Atonement by Ian McEwan. Being Dead by Jim Crace.
I’ve always struggled to find a good book to read. I love having books read to me, but to pick one up myself has always been a struggle.
So when I say I’ve love the Ascendance of a Bookworm series, know that this is one of maybe 2 or 3 series I actually read. It’s a fantasy story about one little girls dream of trying to read books in a world without books. The premise is silly on paper, but the world building and characters are so detailed and flushed out that I’ve gotten sucked in and read throughout the whole series multiple times.
The novels just finished the main series with Part 5 Volume 12, there an anime of good to mixed quality, and a manga too. Tips for new readers is to watch the anime before reading as Part 1 is not as smooth as the rest.
There is also a lemmy server for discussions !aoblightnovel@bookwormstory.social
If you've already read a lot of books, you should give If On A Winter's Night A Traveller a go.
Fifty Shades Of Grey
Sounds great, I love color theory
The Brothers Lionheart, by Astrid Lindgren is one of my childhood favourites. Originally Swedish but has been translated into English.
The Letter for the King by Tonke Dragt another childhood fav., it has been translated from Dutch. Actually, anything by Dragt I loved, but not sure which have translations or not.
In terms of adult fiction, I was hooked on Stig Larsson's The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo series (he only wrote the first 3 though).
Someone mentioned Kurt Vonnegut; I recommend the one I've read of his: Slaughterhouse 5.
The Circle still gives me pause more than 5 years later. It's by Dave Eggers.
out of position
Soooooo many pretentious replies in this thread, they're always the same.
Fuck that boring crap, start with good old light-hearted fiction.
Try -
The One Hundred Year Old Man Who Climbed Out Of A Window And Disappeared
The Breach by Travis Lee
The Dublin Trilogy by Caimh McDonnell (all 5 of them, dear god they're hilarious)
The Girl With All The Gifts
Invasion by DC Alden
A Man Called Ove by Fredrik Backman (Anxious People is amazing too)
Wayward Pines by Blake Crouch (Recursion too)
The Idiots' Club by Tony Moyle
And of course, The Internet Is A Playground by David Thorne
Waaaaaay more entertaining than all the classics mentioned, a very small selection of contemporary authors are vastly superior to the writers of yesteryear
Edit - downvoted by the wanks that think reading George Orwell makes them clever lmao. Once you get over 30 you realise that books are for entertaining, not to leave on your coffee table to try to seem interesting
Enjoying a classic book is not pretentious. Conversely, gatekeeping what people think is a must-read is pretty pretentious.
Reading books which make you think is also not pretentious, and I get the idea that you sure think it is. There's nothing wrong with light reading for fun, but some people enjoy more variety than that.
Books are not meant to entertain. If you "realize" when you are over 30 that books are only for entertainment, then you are simply put, a lazy person.
Classics never outdate. They will forever remain as the must-reads for people who want to expand their knowledge and perception of the world because they come from a time where information was not as easily exchangeable as it was today. The only way to share ideas effectively and permanently was writing books.
You have no right to downlook on classics. Reading a classic book that has proven it's value long ago will forever be more beneficial to a person than an author's silly book that is written with the sole purpose of entertainment.
Reading 1984 WILL make a person clever.
Of course, you can always say some stuff like "damn who hurt you" and leave the discussion if you wish. Don't make ignorant comments if you don't know what you are speaking about.
lmao.
Ha ha didn't realise what instance I was on and forgot it was all 15yo edgy wankers
As you were mate
Thanks for obeying! Much appreciated.
Thanks for the recs! I'll look into these, because I could always go for something light and entertaining, but I don't really think any medium is "for" anything.
Like with movies, most of the time I'm looking for something to laugh at to forget my problems, or at least an exciting adventure to get lost in. But sometimes I find something that just punches me in the gut and makes me think about life, and I see that as a positive experience, even if it's not strictly "fun".
I get the backlash, though. I think too many people have held literature up as the only way to be smart, and moreso, held book smarts up as the bare minimum for being treated as a human. I've heard it from all sides.
I've been on the opposite end of a pretty similar dynamic, too. I enjoy lifting weights, and people treat it like a virtue instead of a hobby. People say shit like "wow, you're better than me" or start giving me excuses for why they can't go to the gym, as if I was judging them for having different hobbies.
People are pompous dicks about fitness, but I do it because I really enjoy it. People are also pompous dicks about the classics, but I have to assume that most folks are like me. They just enjoy it.