Just Stop Oil activists throw soup at Van Gogh’s Sunflowers after fellow protesters jailed
theguardian.com
Three individuals targeted National Gallery paintings an hour after Phoebe Plummer and Anna Holland were jailed for similar attack in 2022
Climate activists have thrown tomato soup over two Sunflowers paintings by Vincent van Gogh, just an hour after two others were jailed for a similar protest action in 2022.
Three supporters of Just Stop Oil walked into the National Gallery in London, where an exhibition of Van Gogh’s collected works is on display, at 2.30pm on Friday afternoon, and threw Heinz soup over Sunflowers 1889 and Sunflowers 1888.
The latter was the same work targeted by Phoebe Plummer and Anna Holland in 2022. That pair are now among 25 supporters of Just Stop Oil in jail for climate protests.
So if throwing paint at a entierly replaceable cover for a dusty old painting is too far gone to be acceptable, what action can we take to stop oil production? Like. It needs to stop. To continue producing fossil fuels is a death cult. It needs to stop, like, a decade ago. I ask genuinely, how is this too far, and what is an acceptable response to an existential threat?
God, I wish someone could actually trace the train of events that would lead to reduced oil production from this other than some bizarre notion that throwing soup at a priceless artifact of human heritage will Energize The Masses(tm) or suddenly convince people who think climate change is a hoax or overblown that it's actually a serious problem.
Imagine if these activists spent more time going after companies benefiting from fossil fuel production rather than throwing soup in museums...
They've done that too, and have encountered media blackouts.
As nice as it would be if they could simply fix the climate problem with the disruption a handful of protests cause, they can't, and need to draw public attention to the problem.
These demonstrations open up the conversation in threads like this - you agree there's a problem, you agree these protests don't fix the problem, so let's talk about what will.
I feel like we’re kind of entering an era where direct action and ecology-motivated terrorism are going to start becoming a thing. And I’m honestly not sure that would be a bad thing.
Peaceful protests have not worked, disruptive protests have been widely villified and the protestors jailed for very long sentences. If you are facing 2-3 years for holding up a banner or throwing some paint seems like criminal damage of a fossil fuel facility isn't likely to net more years. As many have said in the past governments ignore peaceful protests at their peril, because once its clear that doesn't work they become not peaceful.
If everything is illegal, nothing is illegal.
If you’re gonna get thrown in jail if you’re caught regardless, why not go for broke?
To fight another day. If every passionate soul bound themselves to another rather then fizzling out or going up flames then we could become many.
Assuming there's no collateral damage to speak of, I'd argue it would be an act of self-defence for the benefit of all of us. In principle, I'd struggle to find reason to be upset by it.
There will be collateral damage. There always is. The idea there wouldn't be collateral damage is already setting the bar higher than is feasible.
Seems to me that it would be pretty difficult to encounter a media blackout to do this sort of thing at, for example, global climate summits, oil company shareholder meetings, etc.
But I'm not seeing much soup being thrown there.
In Germany, protestors repeatedly shut oil pipelines off and locked themselves to the valves to prevent their reopening, blocking oil flow for several hours every time. I consume a lot of news, both mainstream and in my leftist bubble. That story barely registered anywhere.
The exact same protestors threw mashed potatoes at a Van Gogh. They were the main headline for over a week.
Hell, some guy set himself on fire a few years ago and it was in the news for half a day.
The media blackout is real, but it's not a huge conspiracy. It's just that the media reports on what gets them clicks, and nothing generates clicks like outrage. That's why so much reporting also conveniently forgets to mention that the paintings are protected by plexiglass and nothing ever got damaged. But all the controversy gets people talking, and some people will inevitably question what drives people to do something like that. That is the real objective. If they wanted to be popular, they'd to greenwashed recycling videos on YouTube instead, or whatever else is hip with the neoliberal peddlers of personal responsibility at the moment.
And how will this get corporations to stop drilling for and selling and taking advantage of fossil fuels? How do you get from throwing soup to that?
You stop the problem from being buried under the fact that everyone is struggling to get by, or distracted by whatever the fuck the likes of the Kardashians are up to. You bring it to the forefront and prompt conversations like these - conversations where someone might realise that to stay the course on this one is to roll down the road to the apocalypse, and maybe they'd like to do something about that.
But no one is realizing anything but these idiots throwing soup belong in jail
By 'media blackout' they mean 'it was a blip on the radar like this is, but this is NOW and thus relevant and important'
Stop throwing soup.
We’re at the point where idiots throwing soup are called sing more environmental damage than backwoods yahoos rolling coal. Shall we protest soup abuse? Because that’s more likely to help the environment
Right? Go throw soup at Darren Woods or one of the oil execs, not at a painting
Remember when famous assholes used to get pies in the face? What happened to that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tHGmSh7f-0
I remember when people would throw animal blood on rich fucks going to gala events who were wearing fur.
Right? I admit I don't have the bravery it takes to do stuff like that, but it seems like neither does anyone else anymore.
So... that's straight up assaut. There's a good reason why they changed tactics, and it's mostly because throwing soup at a Plexiglas barrier is 100x less destructive to property than covering valuable furs with blood.
I find it absolutely mind-boggling that you all are acknowledging that protests that make people uncomfortable are what works, then coming to the conclusion "but not like this, you can't protest like this, that's ridiculous!"
Then we wouldn’t be talking about stopping oil production right now.
We’re not talking about stopping oil production. We’re talking about these nutcases. And when we do get back to the important topic, now it’s harder to get support, harder to stay on topic, environmental concerns are more likely to be dismissed with jokes about throwing soup
Then they would be in cages already.
I brought up Karen Silkwood and Erin Brockovich elsewhere. They were not put in cages. They were just willing to do some very hard work rather than just stunts.
Imagine if all the people I disagree with did the thing I wanted...
Wish granted
Can I request an article or at least a transcription?
YouTube provides transcripts. It's in the discription on the website
Wow. I am behind the times. I'll look through it then.
It's weird that there are people in this thread that think defacing the protective barrier of a painting is too far, but advocating for harming or killing oil industry executives is not because the painting didn't do anything to cause our climate emergency. By that argument, defacing a building with grafitti can't work, blocking traffic would put more pollution in the air, blowing up a pipeline would kill innocent people and animals.
Nothing is good enough for them except the status quo. They'd rather a museum burned down in a riot than plexiglass get covered in soup because riots are okay (but once that happens, the pearls will be clutched again.)
Go fuck with the billionaires and lawmakers at their homes, offices, doctor's appointments, at the store, while they're out for coffee, etc. Fuck with the people actually causing the problem
Instead of intentionally pissing people off at climate protesters, put effort towards educating people on the myriad of ways we actually subsidize fossil fuels and the corrupt relationships that keep that going, so people instead get pissed off at the fossil fuel industry, lobbyists, and corrupt politicians.
Of course some people do work on this already, Climate Town being a good example. We should be talking about those efforts instead of these.
"What's blocking traffic have to do with racism? All it does is make people mad at black people!"
History rhymes.
I’m not sure it’s the acceptability that needs to be discussed here. In what way does this stop oil? The way you phrase your comment seems to presuppose that this is a useful action but some find it unacceptable. You’re skipping right over the main problem with this. Destroying art is not a useful act.
And yet it damaged the frame, prevented people from enjoying a work of art and cost money from a museum that has nothing to do with the cause
While I think this was a stupid way to go about risking jail time for a noble cause, I would like to remind everybody here of what everybody in the 60s thought about MLK and his peaceful protests:
There never has nor will there ever be such a thing as "the right way to protest." The right way to protest means out of sight where it can be conveniently ignored.
Interesting that you think this is stupid, yet you acknowledge that protests are inherently uncomfortable.
People are talking about Just Stop Oil every time they pull one of these stunts. Sounds like they're accomplishing their goals will bells on.
They are being noticed, but I'm not sure they do more good than harm:
Fossil fuel lobbies have long stopped trying to paint oil as good but rather environmentalism as bad, and activists as idiots.
If you look at old pro-oil propaganda, say 80s-90s it was all about how great life is thank to oil and how bright the future of the oil-based economy was going to be, downplaying climate change and pollution related issues.
Now they're just engaging in mud throwing because their position is untenable.
Going for the shock factor may just fuel their game.
I mean stupid as in "you might as well do something worth the punishment" or that they might have been better off blocking traffic through a major thoroughfare or something rather than possibly damaging a cultural artifact.
I agree with the concept, just not this particular executation.
Uh.. do you know what their punishment is for this? They usually get carted to the local jail, held for between a few hours and a few days, then released once the media have gone away. The offense is so minor that the punishment is the equivalent of getting lost in a corn maze. Usually, the JSO people are older people who don't have much going on and so it's literally no skin off their back if they have to sit in the local jail for a few days. (Also, UK jails are much more humane than US jails, so they don't really suffer)
See, I don't think you do. I'm not trying to No True Scotsman you, but if you agree that protests inherently have to upset people a little bit, you can't then turn around and say "but don't upset us like this!". You don't get to pick and choose what protests are morally correct or even worth it - that's the protestor's job, not yours!
While that's often the punishment, this particular event was a repeat of a previous event that resulted in a two year prison sentence. At least that one particular judge is throwing the book at climate protesters for minor acts.
And why is that? At least partially because a) like it or not, oil barons have a lot of influence and b) people are whinging about it, which makes judges think that they're doing the will of the people.
This is why I said "you might as well do something worth the punishment." In the US, protesting can get you more harsh sentences than crimes like assault or robbery. And not to "That's, like, just your opinion, man" but...it's just my opinion that their time would've been better spent blocking the street and holding up rush hour traffic or something for the punishment that they got. Like you said, it clearly worked because people are talking about it - and talking about it enough that the arguing in another post on this article got the post locked.
I'm not here to rag on them. Again, there's no "right way to protest," and this is a noble cause to protest for.
She did exactly what you suggested, except you havent heard about it because it doesnt generate media coverage, this does.
This exactly. Protests happen more often than people think. It's just easy to bury it.
Yeah but what are they saying when they're talking? Most people are saying "look at these crazy climate people, something is clearly wrong with them". Maybe the protesters should do something that makes people say "maybe we should care more about climate change" instead.
This is a common problem I see with modern protests. Protesters of a certain other cause I won't name spray-painted my neighborhood. I try to be a logical person, and logically I'd like to think my perspective on the issue they were spraypainting about is unaffected. But I can't help but notice that on an emotional level, I really do not want to be on the same side as the people who disrespected me and my neighbors by spraypainting our neighborhood. To the point where if someone says they find that cause important, I actually feel a slight uncontrollable pang of disdain for them.
I don't think most people try to be as aware of how their emotions affects their thinking as I do.
they said that about suffrage and women's suffrage too.
I feel like I'm starting to see way more sympathetic comments than I did a year ago.
Effective protests are uncomfortable. That doesn’t mean that any random act of vandalism is an effective protest. You’re trying to ask a relationship transitive which is not transitive.
I agree except that potential damage to historical pieces makes me extremely upset.
I would prefer they ACTUALLY riot to that.
... and, in fact, that would probably be much more effective.
They tried protesting at oil infrastructure, they stopped multiple oil terminals in the UK being used for weeks and caused shortages in various parts of the UK. Hundreds went to prison and everyone forgot about it after a week.
They throw soup at glass, 2 people go to a police station for a few days and people are still talking about it months later.
Unfortunately, they have to exist within the constraints of modern news media, outrage cycles and social media, and that influences their decisions.
People are mostly talking about what a bunch of idiots they are though.
This lot look like they were cast by the daily mail, they couldn't be more of a caricature. It is absolutely not effective communication.
Those look like 3 random people to me. I'm not seeing the caricature. For them to not be caricatures, what would you expect them to look like?
But you have heard of captain Jack Sparrow...
I understand they used to protest for climate action, but now they’re just nutcases making it harder for the rest of us.
I guess good for them that they got their moment of attention, but not all attention is good attention. Especially over here in the US, it’s hard enough getting half the population to care about the environment, and now they’re just dismiss it as “those nutcases”. This does not help anyone.
I mean JSO never actually tried to damage historical pieces. The paintings are behind glass
It was covered by glass, unclutch your fucking pearls already.
Van Gogh is my favorite painter, and I would still rather have a habitable planet for future generations than have Sunflowers. If you're more mad about this than you are about what big oil and gas companies are doing, sit down and have a good hard think about where your priorities are. I do not give a shit if you "agree with their message but not their tactics" or if you "think it makes the cause look bad" or whatever other bullshit you want to spew to cover your ass right now. Ultimately, if this caused you to feel a greater sense of righteous anger than the wholesale destruction of our environment for profit does, you are part of the problem. I'd rather side with the people who are trying to make a difference, even if I don't like how they do it, than side with the people plundering our world for personal gain.
Van Gogh died penniless, right? He'd probably be cheering. "Oh no, rich people will be slightly less able to profit off of my work?"
What a laughable false dilemma.
Your instinct is laudable. Where your judgment is failing you is that these are not people who are making a difference. Stop straining to make something meaningful out of a random act of vandalism. The tiniest act of actual divestment from oil would be more meaningful than slopping soup at a painting. Take the bus one day a month instead of driving. That’s a difference.
I see a lot of confusion and misinformation in the comments about what Just Stop Oils demands are. Their website makes it very plain and you can read through the details yourself. The press has massively misrepresented the groups demands and goals so its best to read it for yourself. https://juststopoil.org/
These are the 3 demands they have.
There is no immediate demand to stop or anything so extreme, they are largely what the UK has already agreed to do but is failing to achieve.
Cool. But the goals are almost beside the point. This action makes people associate goals that I agree with, with being an asshole.
2030 is insanely fast for no oil, it's also way more aggressive than what the UK is planning. Net 0 emissions is different than no oil. Net 0 emissions means you still use a bunch of oil but claim planting a bunch of trees or an algae farm cancels it out. Net 0 emissions doesn't mean stop using oil based products like plastic either. No oil is totally a different demand.
Also UK doesn't plan on net 0 emissions until 2050, 2035 is just massive reduction in transportation emissions.
To everyone in this thread who has nothing but insults for these activists, what are you doing against climate breakdown? Besides sitting on your couch, insulting people who are actually trying to make a difference, facing jail time?
You are the kind of people who would've called the Suffragettes names and said they're hurting the cause, as well.
These clowns ain't doing anything useful about it either.
Why are you placing climate change at the feet of the poor? Go fuck with billionaires and politicians who are causing this issue. All you're doing is stomping the person below you because you're mad at billionaires
I don't own a car. Most of what I do is done via bicycle, with the occasional public transport on the side. I don't buy a new piece of tech whenever it comes out, or throw tech out unless it's well and truly broken. I don't participate in one-day fashion, usually wearing all my clothes till they're threadbare.
But these are all consumer side things. They don't do shit. It's a wonderful corporate ploy to say that climate change is somehow in our hands. But throwing soup at great art sure as fuck isn't going to suddenly change that.
Solared my house. Converted to LED lights. Invested in insulation. Consistently supported political candidates against fracking in primary races. Voted as liberally as possible in general elections. Bought electric car. Home battery. Systematically reduced power usage throughout the house. Systematically looked for ways to reduce plastic usage.
But that’s just a start. Next month I’m going to slop soup on a painting and REALLY make a difference.
Go to a real protest holding a an actual sign with actual message DUHHH
Compared to what they've accomplished by getting some plexiglass wet, it seems like sitting on my couch has accomplished the same. Maybe more by staying home, unless they rode bikes or walked to do the deed.
These pro-acrylic protests are getting out of hand!
Have my upvote, you monster.
I dunno why these newspapers constantly print these phony headlines... Oh wait. It's the clickbait and propaganda obviously.
Terrorist shoots at someone's bulletproof vest:
"Derp, they didn't shoot the man just the vest! Clickbait!"
Only in this case it would be shooting deliberately at the vest of a person covered from head to toe in said vest with a caliber that they'd know couldn't penetrate it. There was no chance for it to penetrate or go around the protective layer, nor was it intended to be so, so that's not quite accurate.
🌍 > 🖼️
That sort of comment could be used to justify an unbelievable amount of vandalism and terror and is just not productive
We should value the Earth more than art. If vandalism of paintings bothers people more than the destruction of the Earth then they should reexamine their priorities. No to mention, the vandalism of the art is imagined, the painting is undamaged, but the damage to the planet is real. On top of that, if we do nothing to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions then the damage to the planet will continue to worsen.
There is no reason to compare the earth and art given that destroying art does not in any way benefit earth.
There is literally no vandalism nor terrorism here apart from the planet being destroyed.
Hot take: I swear a lot of these kinds of "protests" are funded by the oil companies themsleves to make climate activists look like crazy crackpots easy for the media and average Joe to dismiss. Like with the Stonehenge paint bullshit. Really?
I agree. I think these people are serving as "useful idiots". They don't know they're being manipulated by oil interests. Ther think they are fighting the good fight. They are undoubtedly benefiting those they claim to be against.
You might be right.
Source: https://whynow.co.uk/read/who-is-funding-just-stop-oil-the-billionaires-backing-the-art-vandals
Aileen Getty is a philanthropist who inherited money and has nothing to do with the oil company. Her father and the rest of her family sold their stake when she was young. This is just a convenient conspiracy for oil companies to spread because people just fucking slurp it up without the minimum due diligence.
Good for them.
They’re getting media attention for their message. That isn’t easy to do.
I know Lemmy has mixed feelings here, but I personally applaud these activists for risking prison time to draw attention to a major existential threat.
I find it quite entertaining to see all the art aficionados coming out so shook by them getting a little bit of soup onto some plexiglass and a picture frame that they probably couldn't even describe before these incidents. Close your eyes, Is it walnut or cherry? Painted or oil finished? Ornate or simple? 5 or 7 inches wide? Symmetrical or asymmetrical along a horizontal axis?
These protests, which thus far have involved basically zero actual damage of cultural significance have driven significantly more attention (good and bad) to their cause than anything else that has been done. Their protests are non-violent and generally nondestructive.
That said, the real crime here is the judge sentencing 2 years in prison for getting some soup on the frame of a painting - I don't support violent protests, but I'm pretty sure you could just go around and slap oil CEOs in the face for a fraction of the sentence.
I'm sorry, but these protests are going to far! That was a perfectly fine soup!
My tin hat tingles with these guys they're either too upper middle-class to actually understand the real world or they're making sure climate activists are a running joke.
I see your point, I do. But I also see theirs. There will be no one around in the future to enjoy or make art if we continue fucking up the world with fossil fuels the way we are.
Maybe it'd be better to walk around posting little signs on the paintings descriptions with a catch phrase like "like art? Stop fossil fuels" then a little blurb about how there'll be no art in the future if there is no future.
That's probably how I'd handle it, maybe even try to work with the museum so the signs wouldnt get taken down. But, that doesn't get media attention. It'd never end up in the news. Maybe after contacting 50 museums it'd get a small mention, but ultimately no one would care.
Our current news cycles don't encourage people to act civilly when trying to be heard. So that's why this sort of extreme behavior keeps happening. It's a vicious feedback loop and just like climate change we don't seem to be making any moves to stop it.
I 100% agree with their message, I 20% agree with their tactics.
This is so poorly motivated it makes me wonder if it were in fact staged by the fossil fuel industry to make climate activists look bad.
Ah, yes, the murderous system of [checks notes] art made generations before you were born.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Stop_Oil
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aileen_Getty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Paul_Getty
So she assuages her guilt for having a huge oil inheritance by donating some of it to encourage other people overseas to go to jail protesting other people doing what her grandfather made his money doing. Great.
What do you expect her to do instead?
Invest in renewables?
I work for a green hydrogen production and supply company. Our financials are not amazing. If she cut a check for even a few $100k that would go a long way.
It's time to stop bringing awareness to climate change, and to actually start addressing it. If you're passionate enough to throw soup at a painting, you're passionate enough to get job training to help operate renewable energy sites.
Well, she inhereted all that money, right? Maybe... Juuuust maybe she could spend it on nuclear or green energy production technologies.
I dunno. if I was born into a family rich on something like oil, I hope I'd spend a bunch to end our dependence on it. chiefly because it's better than not, and I'd also have the fortune to do so, and the irony of using oil money to get us post-oil like we're Norway would be a bit of added cheek.
What should she do in her position: lay about like Bruce Wayne or try to do good like batman?
Honestly, got no problem with that. We aren't responsible for the actions of our ancestors. The issue is whether what she's funding is effective.
Was it actually damaged? Seems like the only damage done was to the frame.
Damage was only done to the frame on this occasion, yes. Their claim of disrupting an unjust etc etc etc system though hinges on them disrupting the system of... viewing priceless art in a public gallery.
Have we considered that these protests are astroturfing by big professional art-restoration backers?
We've considered they're astroturfing for big oil, yes.
Ahhh… big oil paint dollars.
Well, that, and hindering the climate change movement by making everyone look like complete moronic twits.
Money well spent, obvs.
Really easy to do when most people's first reaction is to express concern over a painting than "hey, maybe we need a big shift in how we generate energy or we're all screwed". The actual useful idiots.
Oh yes, because that's the dichotomy here. It's either we vandalize irreplaceable paintings, or we die from climate change.
Or maybe one is entirely unrelated to the other, and this is the equivalent of jacking off in public and claiming to have participated in the fight against world hunger.
Well, like others have said, they previously tried to apply the Nelson Mandela handbook of vandalizing and disrupting actual oil infrastructure - i.e. more direct to what the cause is for - and people gave 0 shits. Turns out regular people don't care about oil refineries and wells. They do care about museums and art pieces.
I bestow upon you the Useful Idiot Ribbon.
I keep thinking that these guys have to be right wing plants. Can these people really be this stupid? Doing this shit and blocking roads only makes people your enemy. Go throw paint on billionaire's houses or at your nearest court house you idiots
Point of order, they didn't block the road. They were up on the sign poles. The police stopped traffic.
I bet fossil fuel companies love this
(Everyone seems to be taking the opposite message from my original post, so I guess I’ll just replace it.)
Here is a pretty good video about the original incident when it happened, responding to some of the criticism of the soup-throwers by comparing their demonstration to the self-immolation of Wynn Bruce, in terms of media attention, cost, and damage:
https://youtu.be/5COJyheLHSE
(I had not heard of Wynn Bruce before the video, so I assumed nobody else had either. Wrong assumption on Lemmy, I guess.)
I do remember Wynn Bruce and how his act solved climate change forever.
Like, holy fucking shit, I'm not against radical protests or direct action. Take a fucking sledgehammer to someone's sports' car for all I give a fuck. Do it to multiple people. I mean, as long as it's someone relevant, not just some rando. But this? Playing fucking games with human heritage? This kind of infantile shit is why museums and public galleries have to invest heavily in security measures anymore. The Mona Lisa has been damaged multiple times by people doing this kind of bullshit. And, like this, no one fucking remembers it in a few years' time.
It's insane that the Solarpunk Climate community is more nuanced on this event that many of the defenders in here. Not because the Solarpunk instance is bad, but because climate change et co is kind of Their Thing.
Van Gogh tried to shoot himself in the heart and missed.
I'm confused who this is for. Even many who agree with them don't appreciate vandalism of art and art galleries.
Will art matter when we’re all dead from climate change tho?? I guess everyone has their priorities
It's to get cameras thrust in their face so they ask when oil executives will face consequences.
"Is destroying art worse than destroying the whole planet???"
It's an idiotic form of protest, it accomplishes nothing but turning the public against you, and forever associating your cause with petty vandalism.
Except when they did protests targeted at oil infrastructure, that was still apparently wrong and got far less coverage than much safer stunts like these.
It’s a fair question.
Everyone cares so much about protecting this painting. Why don’t they care as much about protecting the planet? (And the painting isn’t even in any real danger. It’s behind glass.)
The vandalism is practically thought-provoking performance art in itself. It’s probably one of the best pieces in the gallery.
...and yet, here we are talking about climate change. If they'd instead organized a protest of 10,000 people marching for hours it wouldn't have been international news and we wouldn't be talking about climate change.
10 thousand people marching would make world headlines. Though admittedly that's more difficult than smuggling soup in to an art gallery.
You're really close to getting it. Just a few more steps.
And also everything they do is wrong because all protests are secretly worse than the things being protested.
Let the planet die like all the reasonable people.