Muslim call to prayer can now be broadcast publicly in New York City without a permit

MicroWave@lemmy.world to News@lemmy.world – 218 points – Muslim call to prayer can now be broadcast publicly in New York City without a permit
apnews.com

The Muslim call to prayer will ring out more freely in New York City under guidelines announced Tuesday by Mayor Eric Adams, which he said should foster a spirit of inclusivity.

Under the new rules, Adams said, mosques will not need a special permit to publicly broadcast the Islamic call to prayer, or adhan, on Fridays and at sundown during the holy month of Ramadan. Friday is the traditional Islamic holy day, and Muslims break their fast at sunset during Ramadan.

The police department’s community affairs bureau will work with mosques to communicate the new guidelines and ensure that devices used to broadcast the adhan are set to appropriate decibel levels, Adams said. Houses of worship can broadcast up to 10 decibels over the ambient sound level, the mayor’s office said.

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I find the call to prayer more offensive than inclusive

You will hear it and you will like it.

The German word for actions like that is "Konfrontative Religionsbekundung". My layman translation would be "confrontational exhibition of religious faith".

To me it sounds like a particularly angry donkey

Having lived in Bedstuy where a loud Muslim prayer happens every Friday morning, it's annoying as fuck and should not be exempted from ordinary noise ordinances.

I lived right next to a Mosque in Kensington (that opened up without a proper permit in a residential zone a year after I purchased my property). They used to broadcast their prayers at ungodly volume. It was loud as hell, would cut through my headphones and ruin any ability I had to do anything, even think straight. I made numerous noise complaints but nothing was ever done by the NYPD. Got so bad that I finally sold the place and moved somewhere dominated by orthodox Jewry just because I knew they'd serve as a bulwark against me ever having to hear any prayers again.

I'm sure that the people who think this is a good idea view it as a simple matter of religious freedom. It is not. My experience was one of having someone else's religion thrust upon me. Church bells are annoying and loud, but they do not contain actual religiosity. I was always taught that my rights ended when I infringe upon someone else's rights. Broadcasting prayers so loud it can be heard above the ambient noise in NYC is trampling on my rights to exist free of religion.

Believe whatever you want, but keep it to yourself. I feel awful for everyone who lives near a mosque in NYC.

My experience was one of having someone else’s religion thrust upon me.

That's exactly what this is. If someone is part of the religion, they either already know what time it is or have set up their own alarm to notify them. The only reason to blast this across the neighbourhood is to force everyone to hear it.

Freedom of religion is freedom from religion.

Have you not heard the shabbat siren in Brooklyn ran by orthodox Jews and also run every Friday? They are literal air raid sirens in Williamsburg. https://www.jta.org/jewniverse/2014/brooklyns-weekly-shabbos-air-raid-siren

I have, on occasion, heard the siren in Williamsburg. But a siren is very different from having to hear an entire Friday service blasting into my home. Shabbat sirens and church bells suck, but they are only symbolically religious. Mosques are broadcasting their literal prayers. I felt prayed upon. Puns aside, we're not even talking about the public square, where people have differing opinions on the appropriateness of religious ideas/imagery. This is about a person in their private residence or private business being subjected to someone else's religion in full.

A Google search shows that the Adhan isn't a prayer.

God is the greatest. X4 There is No God but God. X2 Mohammad is the apostle of God. X2 Hurry to the prayer. X2 Hurry to the success. X2 God is the greatest. X2

Duration depends on the person reciting it.

Yeah, these are annoying as fuck and should not be exempt from noise ordinances. This isn't 1900, they all have phones they can get a notification if they really don't know what day it is.

When you said Kensington I thought you were a posh cunt called Tarquin but no, apparently not

Every Friday isn't that bad, here in Indonesia especially around Java it will be played every evening, some even plays it 5 times a day..

Houses of worship can broadcast up to 10 decibels over the ambient sound level

10db may not sound like much but a sound 10db louder sounds twice as loud to the human ear.

The Islamic call to prayer happens before sunrise, just after noon, late afternoon, just after sunset, and night time.

I think you’re going to have a fuck load of complaining when that bad boy goes off at 4:30 am. I used to live in Mosul and you could hear the imams all across the city. It’s like a giant alarm clock.

Religions shouldn't get special privileges.

This is some backward ass bullshit. Keep your religious garbage to yourself. Complain about Christians forcing school prayers then have this dumb shit.

We hear church bells all the time, so this seems reasonable.

Both are annoying mind control techniques

Oh yes, the mind control rays that turn the anal religion antenna on to make you follow evil beliefs

In the Middle Ages, bells were thought to have supernatural powers. During the 7th century it is said that the Bishop of Aurelia rang the bells to warn people of an attack. When the enemy heard them, they were said to have fled in fear. The people credited the bells with having saved them. In a world with little man-made noise, the sound of bells was not only majestic, but could be deeply fearful

Where does fear occur?

What does this prove? Going from "people in the middle ages believed it had powers" to "it's a mind control device to make you obey the pope and his mecha army" is a huge "logical" leap

If you don't think religion and all its trappings are mind control that's up to you I guess.

Sky daddy will be sad if you don't love him and will punish you for eternity

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201810/how-religious-fundamentalism-hijacks-the-brain

The word "skydaddy" detected, the opinion of an edgy Reddit atheist rejected

Glad church bells were the top comment... I grew up across the street from a church and I cannot say this loud enough FUCK CHURCH BELLS!! Ban them both, if you need to be called to pray or told what time it is buy a smartphone and set a reminder.

I lived next door to a church for a while, it was a fucking nightmare.

Both should be banned.

See I live in a wee village and despite my non- religiousness, the church bells are absolutely lovely.

I'd like to know if Muslims find the call to prayer a nice sound

I'm under the impression it's them shouting in a megaphone.

Are they using bells then?

I’d be annoyed if I lived near a Christian church that had a megaphone telling people to come pray, but bells at least seem less intrusive.

Less intrusive? They're ridiculously loud.

Do you know what's not loud? Configuring alarms in your phone. Wonder if these people have thought about it.

Fine with me. I'd be happy if both church bells and calls to prayer weren't allowed.

Maybe just personal preference for me then, but I find it’s easier to ignore as it registers as background noise.

Someone blasting music or a speech would absolutely drive me up the wall though.

I'm wondering if you grew up hearing them and that's why. You're far more likely to tune out an intrusive noise that you're very used to.

That's the argument that all the "Muslims shouldn't have extra privileges" miss.

No one should have extra privileges, but we can't take away church bells because of all the Christians would cry foul, so we're stuck giving more religions the right to make excess noise everytime they ask because otherwise it's discrimination.

Caterwauling over a loudspeaker is much more disruptive and annoying than a bell and I don't care who is caterwauling or ringing the bell

But honestly, yeah, apply all noise limits to everyone in the same way. If a bell is being rung during quiet hours and it's too loud, then hit the church with a violation.

Look, you let one group be loud, you let all similar groups be loud. You don't get to choose based on who you like or who makes a sound you like. Fair is fair.

I'd rather peace and quiet thank you very much, if I can't have that, I'd rather fair rules over arbitrary ones.

It's all relative noise levels and how reasonable a noise is. Tbh I've never lived somewhere with church bells that make loud noises during night hours like the Muslims do with their call to prayer, but I guess if a church was doing that, I'd support restricting them, too.

Church bells originally existed for a purpose though and that was to strike the hour and ring alarm. Iirc the call to prayer can be used to tell time but like once or twice a day at best.

We have watches now.

Correct, I'm just saying that's why bells are still allowed to ring without regards to sound ordinance.

You can't set a watch by prayer times unless you have a prayer time table for your locality. Since the start and end times for prayers are related to the solar diurnal motion, they vary throughout the year and depend on the local latitude and longitude when expressed in local time.

God: it's 4:34:43 AM EST and oh whoops you didn't get your prayer rug out on time. That one's going straight to hell. Crosses name out on clipboard

Correct, though if your familiar with the area it's a pretty good way to find out what time it is. Bells just do it better.

I find Jehovas Witnesses and Mormons more annoying than an Adhan ever would be

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Religion: Get away without paying taxes, receive special privileges, and influence government policy!

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Well, they managed to put the foot in the door (you're fucked) just you wait what other special treatments religious folk will require ...

what if you live next door? Kinda like your neighbor's dog barking or mowing grass if you work nights

I lived about 3 miles from a church in a mid-sized town in the midwest. On Sundays they'd play music on some gigantic jangly bell thing I could hear loudly at my house... again, 3 miles away. I can't imagine the noise complaints a regular person would get for playing something that loud, but they're a church so apparently it's fine.

On the one hand, I would be annoyed by more loud noise. On the other hand, it would show the other churches how obnoxious their 5 to 10 minute bell jingles are (hopefully).

This happens surprisingly often. There is a church on my block that I can't hear unless I go right up to the building on Sundays and I know that they do get into because during Covid they moved outside with the singing.

Used to go to school near a mosque.

Their broadcasts are actually some really nice kind of singing, which is a lot less intrusive than the church bells I get across the village at 6 in the morning.

It's loud and high-pitched and unasked for anyway.

My GF lives by a mosque where they blast their off-tone, lazy chants at full blast. Its awful. Its so loud it rattles her windows. Apparently its to evangelize, but I can't imagine anyone getting swayed when their ear drums burst from poorly toned chants.

Nobody is getting swayed, but your gf may be tempted to move away, opening the place for more Muslims and creating a Muslim area.

Why am I thinking about c90adventures when he was in like Mexico and the market across from his hotel was blaring something over what im convinced were some old ww2 air raid sirens.

I still think this issue can be solved with an app. In fact I am willing to help work on it as long as they promise to put it to bed.

You get a little cry to prayer on your personal device based on your location.

There's hundreds of apps that already do this, I have two of them on my phone. There's more to it than just the sound

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And then Americans call Europe a New Mogadishu, lol.

So see if the city has like a max db for speakers, get a device to measure the decibels and complain on that front. Let them know you are not arguing about the prayer ( sucks but I think that battle is lost for now) but the noise level is disruptive

see if the city has like a max db for speakers

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Houses of worship can broadcast up to 10 decibels over the ambient sound level, the mayor's office said.

Did you miss that part?

I actual did miss that, but the purpose of doing what I said would be making sure they did not exceed the decibel limit

Someone should teach these regressive fundies about the existence of earbuds.

Good. Muslims deserve it.

Why?

This is not an attack on Islam.

Why does one group have the right to blast (a sound 10db louder sounds twice as loud to the human ear.) the neighbourhood with noise?

How does their right to broadcast trump the right of others to have some peace and quiet?

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