We have all seen the video of her broken body being paraded through Gaza and the people spitting on her. Hamas did that and they brought death and destruction to Gaza.
Hamas AND Israel both brought death and destruction to Gaza. Palestinian children are not bombing themselves now.
I don't understand why someone would want to see that.
It is sadly the reality of the situation. Only someone fucked up can see that and the other videos from that day (example the slaughtered elderly at the bus stop etc) and think "Oh Hamas are the good guys."
I think the number of people who think hamas are the good guys is infinitessimal compared to the number of people who think Israel shouldn't be genocidal.
Do you think that's the case globally or mostly in the western world?
I think anyone everywhere would agree that Israel's response should be appropriate to the threat, which excludes genocide.
Sadly, I think most people in the western world just swallow the narrative which is that Israel are allies, therefore the good guys, therefore they can't be genocidal.
The western world is hardly a population majority. Do you think your statement about who is considered "good" and "bad" expands outside of the western world?
I'm so weary of this type of comment. Trying to draw me in to some snarky debate that will achieve nothing.
Can we just skip to the end where I'm a poorly informed idiot and you regale us all with your enlightened understanding of these complex issues?
I'm so weary of absolutist that can tell how it is and anybody questioning it is wearisome.
I don't know about you but I'll just skip to the part where I don't have to interact with you ever again. I wish you a day as pleasant as you are.
I wish you a day as pleasant as you are.
Epic burn. Well done. I'll be fretting about that one for days.
It's global in countries where people use forks.
what the fuck did I just read!
Israel military should indeed kill children, shouldn't they? fucking bastard you are.
Heavily armed, full of advantages, but are there, behind their joysticks killing toddlers! What an army of piece of shit!
You might have misunderstood my comment.
It's reality. You want to understand the hatred felt by everything in that region? You have to watch it uncensored.
I disagree. I don't think that watching a few videos could help someone "understand" the hatred as much as reading and listening.
Your imagination can't match the nastiness of reality
I very much doubt that.
so the past 50 years of the gaza strip being bombed by israel have not brought death and desctruction to gaza? that's ignoring the constant blockades and other restrictions israel put on gaza as well.
lets not forget the blockade by egypt too, even jordan at one point wanted to kick out and backtrack citizenship for all descendants of palestinian refugees
"It is kind of more complicated than that" when it is really not!
let me just start with this postulate:
palestinians: natives
israelis: colons
Should I add than one is heavily militarized and has control over infrastructures?
That's wrong though. Palestinians and Israelis both stem from ancestors from the area. You could even say that at least in Jerusalem the Palestinians came later.
bullshit! you want to go back to what? neolithic ?
I mean after what happened it's going to turn a lot of people dark. No different than in the states after 9/11. I legit know people that signed up just to "kill some sand you know what's to get pay back". That's fucked up yes. And wrong. But hardly unexpected just like I expect citizens of Gaza to enmase celebrate the death of Jews now.
well I guess that makes killing this citizen ok then
That's a terrible thing to say.
So is responding to a human atrocity with "yeah but what about these other people celebrating an atrocity"
thats the whole conflict tho :(
How is simply stating facts, "a terrible thing to say"?
Fuck Hamas. They are a blight on the Palestinian cause.
Edit: Typo
blight?
Yes
I'm very saddened to hear about the death of this young woman. I'm also sad to hear about deaths of many, many Palestinians. I do not think it's coincidence that Hamas decides to launch a major offensive in the midst of talks with between Saudi Arabia and Israel to normalize relations between the two after many years of relative peace. We can't have peace in the Middle East because it doesn't serve the ends to the major regional powers.
Both sides in this conflict are used as pawns for the political ends of others. Innocent people are those that get caught in the midst of it all. Hamas didn't do this without a green light so as much vitriol being spilled in this thread we have to take a step back. These fights have been brewing and going on for generations. If you take the short term view much of the strife we see today is the fallout from WWII and that is used as leverage by other nefarious parties.
It's not the Israeli people's fault they do not have a home.
It's not the Palestinian people's fault they do not have a home.
Some of the comments in this thread are sickening, hateful, narrow, and short-sighted.
I don't think it's right to nonchalantly compare the Palestinians as the citizens of a nation and Jews as an ethnic group. It seems a bit... racist?
From what I understand it's not the Palestinians fault they don't have a home, and that's in large part due to Israeli Zionists.
Not my intent. I made an edit to address that.
I don't disagree with you if that extends beyond borders. External forces seem to dictate what happens there.
they have a home, and they'd have a country if they just said "yes"
Jews are most assuredly an ethnic group. One Hamas intends to commit genocide against.
"I invaded your land and occupied it and killed your family, but you didn't say yes when I offered you a piece of your land! You're a terrorist! "
you murdered, raped, and defiled the corpses of innocents, unprovoked, and with no aim but the act itself, so you're by definition a terrorist
Ftfy
Palestinians weren't citizens of a nation and than got invaded by Zionist Jews someday.
Israel, Gaza and Westbank (now called Palestine) were created in that area which was called Transjordan at the time. And Israelis and Palestinians come from a similar group of people who has ancestors in the area.
The influx of Jews to the area was a result of World War 2 and the exile of Jews in some of the surrounding countries.
You are seen as a "Palestine refugee" btw, when your father was a Palestine refugee. It's not exactly a citizenship.
Tragic. Her poor mother stuck not knowing for 3 weeks... my heart goes out to them.
Tragic. Her poor mother stuck not knowing for 3 weeks… my heart goes out to them.
Yes, more tragic than this mother wearing her baby in her arms smashed by a - supposed - legal entity.
A civilian life is a civilian life but here, it is not me who breaks the balance! Disgusting!
more tragic than this mother wearing her baby in her arms smashed by a - supposed - legal entity.
can you point to the specific sentence where they even implied this, or are you actually just throwing a tantrum because someone said 'man getting your daughter tortured and murdered must suck'
Take a breath. This is a human life that ended. Have respect and don't diminish the loss. One day you will die too, and you would want people to treat your passing with respect and honor, not a talking point.
There are thousands of other threads you can hash out the unfairness of apartheid, and the realities of struggle, this isn't the right place for that.
I am not diminishing her death. At this stage, it is indecent to talk about her death - and use it by the way in the most grossy way - while the Israeli army is stomping civilians, like deaf.
If they wanted to save her, the approach would have been:
to cease bombing
OR
be real men and going on the field, not killing kids.
This is a human life, don't twist her death into your talking point, that is disrespectful to her memory and to her family.
Go to literally any other world news post and start a argument there. You can make the same talking points.
So nice that she was able to travel from Germany to party in Israel.
I wonder what the travel logs for Gazans are like, and why that is.
Did they find the body to confirm the beheading. or is this the same story as the 40 beheaded babies propagandized by mass media.
Why the mess if one bullet could do a cleaner job. I don't think they have a fetish for beheading despite all other cruelties they can be capable of.
Edit: for those who are asking why I am talking about beheading rumors because NBC Titled its video with "Beheading" and refer to Israel's President saying: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ICR5ml2YPkI
Who said she was beheaded? All it says in the article is she had a severe head injury and if you watched the video of her being paraded, you can clearly see she has a head injury most likely being shot in the head.
True, but the 3000 Palestinian children don't get a whole series of articles for each individual one. They're just a number, and apparently a meaningless one, given the ferocity of attacks by the Israeli government that has no limit when it comes to "retaliation".
Yeah how dare people naturally gravitate towards emblemizing a specific victim who's name and face randomly surfaces past the rest early on as a representation of the ongoing crisis!
Nobody's stopping you from writing an article about any of those 3000 kids if you care that much that someone else got spotlight coverage.
Do you think it's random?
Yes actually, most israelis look pretty much the same as most Gazans save for the gazans being more likely to be wearing a kuffiya
Because the number three thousand is probably made up by Hamas. Hamas also doesn't have a register of the young people they draw into their cause.
They also don't first get the names of all the people living in an apartment complex before they start stockpiling guns there and start shooting rockets from there.
Because they don't care for their names. They care for the fact that they can control international support by having a high number of civilian deaths.
In your opinion, how many women and children died?
Same children whose shoulders Hamas used to prop up their guns while firing as Israeli soldiers?
No, the ones bombed by the IDF.
Has anyone on Lemmy ever read about Hamas before a month ago? Hiding bombs and murderers behind children is what the world knows of them. It's fact. Cute watching you all catching up on the conflict in 15 minutes.
How many people defending Israel now have read about their funding and support for Hamas? Netenyahu's government supports the most extreme of the militant groups within Gaza purposely to keep Palestine divided. Even his supporters in Israel are aware of and critique this fact.
is there further reading on this? I know in the past Israel sent material to Hamas (Governor's of Gaza) in attempts to curtail rocket attacks
Yeah the "Hamas using kids as human shields" thing has been tried and true IDF propaganda for years.
Hamas operations in Gaza aren't taking place from military sites, because THEY DO NOT EXIST. Israel will not allow them, because why the fuck would they??
Gaza is an open air prison that is incredibly densely populated. With no area ever possibly being cordoned off for military actions, where would one recommend they do these things from? You live in a prison, you work with that you have.
They're not using human shields, they're just launching their attacks from the only options that exist to them.
A prison of their own making, mind you.
Are you saying that Israel, the occupying, is not responsible for the suffering of the country they occupied?
The area was popular for concerts and festivals for both sides of the conflict, the Gaza music scene actually made regular use of the area because it makes it less likely Hamas' goons are going to show up and drag them off the stage for not being muslim enough.
Critical reading is the only skill we need to teach in school. We are clearly failing. This is getting ridiculous.
The IDF confirmed Shani's death. The IDF has been caught lying already.
Shani's mother who as I understand it has not actually seen the evidence told a news station "a piece of her skull was found"
Remember Shani's mother said just a few weeks ago "Shani is alive"
This is far from actually confirmed.
Good thing Hamas never lies or we would have no idea who to trust.
Like when “500 people” died in that hospital parking lot from that IDF bomb that totally didn't look like a failed Hamas rocket explosion. /s
The "500 people killed" thing isn't actually due to Hamas but Al Jazeera: Directly after the explosion, before the dust had settled, a Health Ministry spokesperson spoke about "500 casualties". In the context of "there are killed and wounded". And as it was so early, and it's a round number, obviously an estimate, and not an official number. Al Jazeera turned that into 500 killed in its English edition, and the whole fucking western media ran with it.
Now I dislike Hamas like I dislike any fascists but the Health Ministry is not just Hamas, plenty of Fatah and generally people from the PA in there, and their numbers have generally been pretty accurate (even if they don't distinguish between civilians and combatants, they simply count the dead). Possibly not as accurate in this case though as once Al Jazeera put that number out there it's probably hard to correct them down while Hamas' propaganda finger of the military arm is holding an AK to your head.
Actually we aren't sure about the rocket origin yet. Investigations are still ongoing, and some recent evidence, including more geolocated video that allowed to do a trajectory analysis through triangulation, and which tend to suggest it was launched from the Israel side. Hypothesis being it may have been a defective iron dome missile that went rogue and unfortunately dislocated and which explosive payload fell on the hospital parking.
Still, before accusing either side it would be best to wait for more proofs. Either way it is going to be considered as a major war crime, and no matter if it was intentional or not, someone has to pay for it.
Even if it was an iron dome rocket, which is not impossible; it was not targeting the hospital. It was targeting a hostile missile launch.
I also trust international orgs fatality reports more than local sources on this one.
Y’all keep talking about war crimes, but Hamas is not even distinguishing themselves from civilians which is the basis from where almost every other IHL rule stems.
What Hamas does is indeed considered as a war crime (taking the population as human shields). But Israel's riposte is way too disproportionate.
The fight isn't about good vs evil, it is just about two brands of the same evil, trying to stay in power by feeding the stalemate while disregarding the lives of the civilians caught in the crossfire.
They are each other's best asset.
While i do not wholly agree with your last sentence, i do respect your balanced view. Making any war one of “good vs. evil” is dangerous a step toward dehumanizing the enemy and it only gets worse from there.
Also i agree Israel’s response has been very strong and cold, but i believe they were not left with many choices.
Things could not return to status quo with Gaza after the attack on the 7th and there was no clean option left for them. Diplomacy failed over and over for decades. Both sides share blame for the diplomatic breakdown, but Israel has no allies and many enemies in the region and must project strength to keep opportunists away.
Even if it was an iron dome rocket, which is not impossible
If it was an iron dome rocket then Israel knows they're lying when they say it's PIJ. You don't think that's an issue?
We have all seen the video of her broken body being paraded through Gaza and the people spitting on her. Hamas did that and they brought death and destruction to Gaza.
Hamas AND Israel both brought death and destruction to Gaza. Palestinian children are not bombing themselves now.
I have not seen that thankfully
I don't understand why someone would want to see that.
It is sadly the reality of the situation. Only someone fucked up can see that and the other videos from that day (example the slaughtered elderly at the bus stop etc) and think "Oh Hamas are the good guys."
I think the number of people who think hamas are the good guys is infinitessimal compared to the number of people who think Israel shouldn't be genocidal.
Do you think that's the case globally or mostly in the western world?
I think anyone everywhere would agree that Israel's response should be appropriate to the threat, which excludes genocide.
Sadly, I think most people in the western world just swallow the narrative which is that Israel are allies, therefore the good guys, therefore they can't be genocidal.
The western world is hardly a population majority. Do you think your statement about who is considered "good" and "bad" expands outside of the western world?
I'm so weary of this type of comment. Trying to draw me in to some snarky debate that will achieve nothing.
Can we just skip to the end where I'm a poorly informed idiot and you regale us all with your enlightened understanding of these complex issues?
I'm so weary of absolutist that can tell how it is and anybody questioning it is wearisome.
I don't know about you but I'll just skip to the part where I don't have to interact with you ever again. I wish you a day as pleasant as you are.
Epic burn. Well done. I'll be fretting about that one for days.
It's global in countries where people use forks.
what the fuck did I just read! Israel military should indeed kill children, shouldn't they? fucking bastard you are.
Heavily armed, full of advantages, but are there, behind their joysticks killing toddlers! What an army of piece of shit!
You might have misunderstood my comment.
It's reality. You want to understand the hatred felt by everything in that region? You have to watch it uncensored.
I disagree. I don't think that watching a few videos could help someone "understand" the hatred as much as reading and listening.
Your imagination can't match the nastiness of reality
I very much doubt that.
so the past 50 years of the gaza strip being bombed by israel have not brought death and desctruction to gaza? that's ignoring the constant blockades and other restrictions israel put on gaza as well.
lets not forget the blockade by egypt too, even jordan at one point wanted to kick out and backtrack citizenship for all descendants of palestinian refugees
"It is kind of more complicated than that" when it is really not!
let me just start with this postulate:
Should I add than one is heavily militarized and has control over infrastructures?
That's wrong though. Palestinians and Israelis both stem from ancestors from the area. You could even say that at least in Jerusalem the Palestinians came later.
bullshit! you want to go back to what? neolithic ?
Have you seen videos of Israelis cheering every time they hear bombs exploding in Gaza?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzAkNnCOCYB/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==
I mean after what happened it's going to turn a lot of people dark. No different than in the states after 9/11. I legit know people that signed up just to "kill some sand you know what's to get pay back". That's fucked up yes. And wrong. But hardly unexpected just like I expect citizens of Gaza to enmase celebrate the death of Jews now.
well I guess that makes killing this citizen ok then
That's a terrible thing to say.
So is responding to a human atrocity with "yeah but what about these other people celebrating an atrocity"
thats the whole conflict tho :(
How is simply stating facts, "a terrible thing to say"?
Fuck Hamas. They are a blight on the Palestinian cause.
Edit: Typo
blight?
Yes
I'm very saddened to hear about the death of this young woman. I'm also sad to hear about deaths of many, many Palestinians. I do not think it's coincidence that Hamas decides to launch a major offensive in the midst of talks with between Saudi Arabia and Israel to normalize relations between the two after many years of relative peace. We can't have peace in the Middle East because it doesn't serve the ends to the major regional powers.
Both sides in this conflict are used as pawns for the political ends of others. Innocent people are those that get caught in the midst of it all. Hamas didn't do this without a green light so as much vitriol being spilled in this thread we have to take a step back. These fights have been brewing and going on for generations. If you take the short term view much of the strife we see today is the fallout from WWII and that is used as leverage by other nefarious parties.
It's not the Israeli people's fault they do not have a home. It's not the Palestinian people's fault they do not have a home.
Some of the comments in this thread are sickening, hateful, narrow, and short-sighted.
I don't think it's right to nonchalantly compare the Palestinians as the citizens of a nation and Jews as an ethnic group. It seems a bit... racist?
From what I understand it's not the Palestinians fault they don't have a home, and that's in large part due to Israeli Zionists.
Not my intent. I made an edit to address that.
I don't disagree with you if that extends beyond borders. External forces seem to dictate what happens there.
they have a home, and they'd have a country if they just said "yes"
Jews are most assuredly an ethnic group. One Hamas intends to commit genocide against.
"I invaded your land and occupied it and killed your family, but you didn't say yes when I offered you a piece of your land! You're a terrorist! "
Ftfy
Palestinians weren't citizens of a nation and than got invaded by Zionist Jews someday. Israel, Gaza and Westbank (now called Palestine) were created in that area which was called Transjordan at the time. And Israelis and Palestinians come from a similar group of people who has ancestors in the area.
The influx of Jews to the area was a result of World War 2 and the exile of Jews in some of the surrounding countries.
You are seen as a "Palestine refugee" btw, when your father was a Palestine refugee. It's not exactly a citizenship.
Tragic. Her poor mother stuck not knowing for 3 weeks... my heart goes out to them.
Yes, more tragic than this mother wearing her baby in her arms smashed by a - supposed - legal entity.
A civilian life is a civilian life but here, it is not me who breaks the balance! Disgusting!
can you point to the specific sentence where they even implied this, or are you actually just throwing a tantrum because someone said 'man getting your daughter tortured and murdered must suck'
Take a breath. This is a human life that ended. Have respect and don't diminish the loss. One day you will die too, and you would want people to treat your passing with respect and honor, not a talking point.
There are thousands of other threads you can hash out the unfairness of apartheid, and the realities of struggle, this isn't the right place for that.
I am not diminishing her death. At this stage, it is indecent to talk about her death - and use it by the way in the most grossy way - while the Israeli army is stomping civilians, like deaf.
If they wanted to save her, the approach would have been:
This is a human life, don't twist her death into your talking point, that is disrespectful to her memory and to her family.
Go to literally any other world news post and start a argument there. You can make the same talking points.
Fucking monsters. Here's footage of her just before the attack, having fun at an EDM concert.
Is it because of mobile or ubo but I didn't see the video? Pretty sure the start showed her dead tits in the back of a vehicle though? That was weird.
NSFW NSFL Dead screenshot from NY Post video
You look over there, and then you look at the comments in here. It's makes you wonder if the human race will ever live in peace. Shame on us all.
We hit the post threshold for reports. Locked
So nice that she was able to travel from Germany to party in Israel.
I wonder what the travel logs for Gazans are like, and why that is.
Did they find the body to confirm the beheading. or is this the same story as the 40 beheaded babies propagandized by mass media.
Why the mess if one bullet could do a cleaner job. I don't think they have a fetish for beheading despite all other cruelties they can be capable of.
Edit: for those who are asking why I am talking about beheading rumors because NBC Titled its video with "Beheading" and refer to Israel's President saying: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ICR5ml2YPkI
Who said she was beheaded? All it says in the article is she had a severe head injury and if you watched the video of her being paraded, you can clearly see she has a head injury most likely being shot in the head.
Western Media as in the title of this video by NBC : https://youtube.com/watch?v=ICR5ml2YPkI
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/watch?v=ICR5ml2YPkI
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
The article explains the details. Just like you said. Shot in the head.
According to the title of this NBC video it says "Beheaded" , https://youtube.com/watch?v=ICR5ml2YPkI
So we don't know Who to believe
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/watch?v=ICR5ml2YPkI
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
thankfully we won’t have to worry about retaliation, I’m sure Israel is very reasonable
So are 3000 Palestinian children.
This may come as a surprise to some whataboutists, but it turns out that multiple things can all be senseless tragedies at the same time.
Yeah, but one's 3000 times worse.
Leftists are such cannibals with their pity points maths. Reprehensible.
"pity points maths," AKA logic.
They're all fucking innocent, you monsters.
True, but the 3000 Palestinian children don't get a whole series of articles for each individual one. They're just a number, and apparently a meaningless one, given the ferocity of attacks by the Israeli government that has no limit when it comes to "retaliation".
Yeah how dare people naturally gravitate towards emblemizing a specific victim who's name and face randomly surfaces past the rest early on as a representation of the ongoing crisis!
Nobody's stopping you from writing an article about any of those 3000 kids if you care that much that someone else got spotlight coverage.
Do you think it's random?
Yes actually, most israelis look pretty much the same as most Gazans save for the gazans being more likely to be wearing a kuffiya
She's German.
Because the number three thousand is probably made up by Hamas. Hamas also doesn't have a register of the young people they draw into their cause.
They also don't first get the names of all the people living in an apartment complex before they start stockpiling guns there and start shooting rockets from there.
Because they don't care for their names. They care for the fact that they can control international support by having a high number of civilian deaths.
In your opinion, how many women and children died?
But that article is particularly about her.
Same children whose shoulders Hamas used to prop up their guns while firing as Israeli soldiers?
No, the ones bombed by the IDF.
Has anyone on Lemmy ever read about Hamas before a month ago? Hiding bombs and murderers behind children is what the world knows of them. It's fact. Cute watching you all catching up on the conflict in 15 minutes.
How many people defending Israel now have read about their funding and support for Hamas? Netenyahu's government supports the most extreme of the militant groups within Gaza purposely to keep Palestine divided. Even his supporters in Israel are aware of and critique this fact.
is there further reading on this? I know in the past Israel sent material to Hamas (Governor's of Gaza) in attempts to curtail rocket attacks
Here is one op-ed article from the Times of Israel about the topic: For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces
Washington Post article from 2014: How Israel Helped Create Hamas
Thank you for the articles
Whataboutism. My comment did nothing of the sort
Yea these people are so confused in their own stupidity they end up being pro-terrorist.
Really cuz I've been asking for evidence for 3 weeks and nobody has bothered to link even a single source with 3rd party confirmation.
Edit: Literally since Israel bombed the AP building 2 years ago I have never gotten a single source in response. Nobody even tries.
Here is an analysis of this Hamas strategy by the NATO:
Hybrid Threats: Hamas’ use of human shields in Gaza
Since 2007 per your peer comment https://stratcomcoe.org/publications/hybrid-threats-hamas-use-of-human-shields-in-gaza/87
Yeah the "Hamas using kids as human shields" thing has been tried and true IDF propaganda for years.
Hamas operations in Gaza aren't taking place from military sites, because THEY DO NOT EXIST. Israel will not allow them, because why the fuck would they??
Gaza is an open air prison that is incredibly densely populated. With no area ever possibly being cordoned off for military actions, where would one recommend they do these things from? You live in a prison, you work with that you have.
They're not using human shields, they're just launching their attacks from the only options that exist to them.
A prison of their own making, mind you.
Are you saying that Israel, the occupying, is not responsible for the suffering of the country they occupied?
1 vs 3000 kids
Well more than 1… but also form and motive are important here.
The “1” was an innocent woman who was raped, tortured, and murdered slowly and publicly to spread terror because she was at a music festival.
The “3000” are civilian casualties of war because said terrorists are hiding behind them as a combat strategy.
Both are horrible, but you are making a false equivalency.
Who is his right mind goes to a festival when your country is "at war" though
That's like asking why do people keep having so many babies when their country is at war?
The area was popular for concerts and festivals for both sides of the conflict, the Gaza music scene actually made regular use of the area because it makes it less likely Hamas' goons are going to show up and drag them off the stage for not being muslim enough.
Critical reading is the only skill we need to teach in school. We are clearly failing. This is getting ridiculous.
The IDF confirmed Shani's death. The IDF has been caught lying already.
Shani's mother who as I understand it has not actually seen the evidence told a news station "a piece of her skull was found"
Remember Shani's mother said just a few weeks ago "Shani is alive"
This is far from actually confirmed.
Good thing Hamas never lies or we would have no idea who to trust.
Like when “500 people” died in that hospital parking lot from that IDF bomb that totally didn't look like a failed Hamas rocket explosion. /s
The "500 people killed" thing isn't actually due to Hamas but Al Jazeera: Directly after the explosion, before the dust had settled, a Health Ministry spokesperson spoke about "500 casualties". In the context of "there are killed and wounded". And as it was so early, and it's a round number, obviously an estimate, and not an official number. Al Jazeera turned that into 500 killed in its English edition, and the whole fucking western media ran with it.
Now I dislike Hamas like I dislike any fascists but the Health Ministry is not just Hamas, plenty of Fatah and generally people from the PA in there, and their numbers have generally been pretty accurate (even if they don't distinguish between civilians and combatants, they simply count the dead). Possibly not as accurate in this case though as once Al Jazeera put that number out there it's probably hard to correct them down while Hamas' propaganda finger of the military arm is holding an AK to your head.
Actually we aren't sure about the rocket origin yet. Investigations are still ongoing, and some recent evidence, including more geolocated video that allowed to do a trajectory analysis through triangulation, and which tend to suggest it was launched from the Israel side. Hypothesis being it may have been a defective iron dome missile that went rogue and unfortunately dislocated and which explosive payload fell on the hospital parking.
Still, before accusing either side it would be best to wait for more proofs. Either way it is going to be considered as a major war crime, and no matter if it was intentional or not, someone has to pay for it.
Even if it was an iron dome rocket, which is not impossible; it was not targeting the hospital. It was targeting a hostile missile launch.
I also trust international orgs fatality reports more than local sources on this one.
Y’all keep talking about war crimes, but Hamas is not even distinguishing themselves from civilians which is the basis from where almost every other IHL rule stems.
What Hamas does is indeed considered as a war crime (taking the population as human shields). But Israel's riposte is way too disproportionate.
The fight isn't about good vs evil, it is just about two brands of the same evil, trying to stay in power by feeding the stalemate while disregarding the lives of the civilians caught in the crossfire.
They are each other's best asset.
While i do not wholly agree with your last sentence, i do respect your balanced view. Making any war one of “good vs. evil” is dangerous a step toward dehumanizing the enemy and it only gets worse from there.
Also i agree Israel’s response has been very strong and cold, but i believe they were not left with many choices.
Things could not return to status quo with Gaza after the attack on the 7th and there was no clean option left for them. Diplomacy failed over and over for decades. Both sides share blame for the diplomatic breakdown, but Israel has no allies and many enemies in the region and must project strength to keep opportunists away.
If it was an iron dome rocket then Israel knows they're lying when they say it's PIJ. You don't think that's an issue?