This doesn't directly affect me, as I've exclusively bought digital games only for over a decade, but it still annoys me based on principle. It's basically a bait and switch - it would be far more honest to just say "it's digital only" than to sell a useless physical box.
Same. I buy exclusively digital for the convenience, but how can they claim this is a physical version of the game when it doesn't physically include the game? It's not even a loophole at those point. It's just a lie.
So, the physical release is just... actual garbage? Like sure, someone may proudly display it in their bookshelf or whatever, but then, it eventually becomes trash, and there's no reason to keep any of it because there's no physical copy of the game which can be resold or even borrowed out to friends?
That's not a "physical release", that's a piece of merchandise, as useful as a Funko Pop.
Only if you paid $$$ for the "Constellation Edition" - that includes a digital watch, a nice case, and a few other physical goodies. It's already sold out though, so yeah don't bother now to buy any physical edition.
Honestly, one of the reasons to get a physical copy is to save time on the download. Not everyone has blazing fast or reliable internet where they live. Just having to download a patch as opposed to the entire 80+ GB game can be a big deal to some. I know it was like that for me back when the only thing available in a past residence was DSL. No cable or Fiber, just DSL.
This argument was laughed at some 10 years ago already, because everyone in the western world has good enough Internet and if you live in the middle of bumfuck, nowhere, then you should move.
What has changed in 10 years is that now Eastern Europe has good Internet too, with the exception of Estonia, where Telia is allowed to be supreme overlord of deciding who gets fiber and who doesn't. Spoiler alert: If you don't live in a building with 20+ apartments, they don't really care much about getting fiber to your building.
To make matters even more ironic, we're supposed to be the tiny IT powerhouse of Europe and even the whole world. Well then why the hell does it take me 10+ minutes to download a fresh dockerized Java/Kotlin project's dependencies from Maven at home?! And 5+ minutes for any individual Cargo project even if it's not dockerized because it seems Cargo doesn't even have a central local cache like Maven does, it's per project.
I'm a big fan of physical games, I want to own them, and play them even if the internet isn't available, and this blocks that, I don't want it. I don't have a gaming PC anymore because I can buy a console cheaper, but if physical discs are gone, gaming PC's allow for piracy so I can keep the games for as long as I want because I don't see every future Xbox having backward compatibility.
I understand the sentiment, but how many new releases can you really play without any internet connection? You often need to download a day 1 patch or contact the game servers to be able to play, even for single player games.
It's annoying for the customer, but it's not a new development.
It's totally unacceptable to me too. I would only buy if it is on physical disk or is available as a full DRM-free offline installer.
Also the used game market makes it so you can buy and sell your games when you are done with them. I switched to PC awhile ago. I don't think it's really cheaper. It cost about $1000 to build a PC that can compete with a $400 console.
pirate more than ten games and you come out ahead
I don't really like playing pirated games. I enjoy steam cloud save. I like being able to switch between my PC and my steamdeck and my laptop.
Yes but that PC can generally last longer, and perform far more tasks. It isn't a fair comparison to use price alone.
It depends on your use case. If you're always buying the newest games it ends up being more expensive since the games cost the same at launch and a comparable PC will always cost more than a console. But if you have a big backlog of old games you still like to play, take advantage of pc sales (being a smart shopper, buy game keys from other storefronts, don't need every need game you want at or near launch), like to mod, and need a computer that is powerful for other reasons already then there's a reduction of cost with all of that plus additional benefits for continuing to play on PC as you upgrade.
That PC is an investment. It will easily outlast at least three generations of $500 consoles, because it can be upgraded.
Yeah but upgrading your GPU costs as much as a new console.
"physical" release my ass.
Release your ass, buddy.
Are the three days already over?
I'm not your buddy, pal.
Im not you pal, friend.
Welp. With this and other AAA games like Alan Wake going full digital, I suppose the end is nigh for physical media. It's a real shame. I own tons of physical games dating back to the Atari 2600. I tend to view things like Limited Run Games to be collector bait, so I guess most of my games are going to be purchased on GOG or Steam once the plug is pulled(I do not trust digital storefronts on console).
What really sucks is that it eliminates any sort of trade-in systems. I rarely have the desire to play a game I've already finished, at least I would be able to recoup some of that money towards a new game. There goes that along with lending games to friends
How often does that happen these days though? Trading in games or lending to friends hasn't been worth it for a while. Trades are worth a handful of dollars and if your friends are adults they can probably afford their own game anyway. We cling too much to an era where people could still believe the earth would be fine. It's a hobby, is it really worth it?
they can still support encrypted format usb sticks which technically doesn't have storage limit. (then decrypt/then encode again when transfer to your console. as if they are downloaded from the server)
Like windows OS is selling on usb sticks.
That's not really a physical release then? It's basically one of those cards they have hanging up at walmart, but with an unnecessary box. And the whole point of the box is as a protective distribution method for physical media.
There ought to be a law that a physical release of a game sold in a box has to include some kind of physical media that contains a version of the game.
Yes, I get that a multi-gig Day 1 Patch is inevitable, but as someone that had to rely on a craptastic mobile broadband connection for a solid year or two, this is a travesty.
If you wanna just sell a code for a digital version in retail stores, just sell code cards without the plastic disk-like box. It wastes less resources, and makes it more clear what it is.
Boxes should come with branded USB sticks (who even has a disc drive these days?), and if the physical version isn't a box why even bother. Random swag is the point.
I've been saying this for years, blurays have a relatively small (by mobern standards) size cap, USB sticks just keep getting bigger
Well, my previous PC still had disc drives -- two in fact, a DVD reader and a CD-RW. Only because I didn't get a new case and didn't have any replacement front panels, though, they were never connected because PATA doesn't work well on a SATA-only board. Also still had a 3.5" floppy drive, also not connected, for the same reason.
Now my case doesn't even have a bay to put a drive into.
My last desktop (made 3 quarters of a decade ago now) didn't, but that's becouse I knew someone with a USB disc reader, the only thing I ever needed it for was installing windows though
Well, the PS5 and XBOX Series X still use disks as their physical media... but yeah, the Series XBOXes in particular could switch over to those storage modules you can slam into the back of the consoles. At least for exclusives - the XBOne has no port for those.
But for PC... I reckon most people buy games on Steam there anyway.
And while I would appreciate swag... I think most developers would only go with cheap non-brandname USB sticks with the logo of the game printed on it, that's built just good enough to not spontaneously combust if you look at it funny.
No, they would spend way too much money on custom USB drives. There would be 20 different kinds, with the super premium gold edition* only being available as a preorder bonus that costs $20 extra.
*does not contain real gold
The stupid reason for the box is probably that people equate size with value, and stores have a harder time charging $90 for a slip of paper.
Easy fix: Print the install size on the slip of paper in big letters.
In Bytes if need be.
More than 1 billion bytes per dollar!
If it’s just a code in a box, does that mean it can’t be resold?
Yes
I love physical media because it's so easy to get rid of it whenever you want. Are you sick of a game or don't want to touch it ever again? Resell on the used market for a few bucks or give it to a friend or a young neighbor that might appreciate it. I like to keep a lean collection of games that I actually care about and might replay eventually.
You will own nothing and be happy
I know people drive sales of digital media because of convince, hell I have bought a few movies digitally myself for this reason. However with the videogame industry you are truly right. You are dropping 60/70 bucks so that Microsoft, Bethesda, or whoever, can just yank these games from their platform for no reason. You are then left with nothing, maybe a backwards compatibility release on the next platform, but guess what, your buying that shit again.
It is truly baffling the lack of foresight, with clear examples of this issue such as Nintendo's shops closing, and psn manipulating of backwards compatibility hardware over the years of PS3.
Saddens me greatly.
Look around and realize how you got here to Lemmy/kbin/beehaw/etc - you were betrayed by a few VC-captured executives that made profit-blinded, consumer-hostile decisions about an important product you used frequently. They ruined it.
Anyone here defending digital media or saying it's not that bad or they should have done a digital lending system, you're not remembering the recent past.
The only acceptable ground to give here is NONE. Physical media needs to start mandatory, or your purchases are never owned and you're always at risk and at the whims of someone like Spez.
This.
Also, AAA companies shouldn't be able to ask for pre-orders and them deliver botched games that require terabytes of network traffic just to be playable. Physical media should be playable (decent framerate and seamless-enough gameplay) from the beggining.
Alternatively downloadable self-contained installers like what you get from https://www.gog.com/
One day my mother called me out of the blue. She told me, that Amazon had sent her an email, because they had a very special deal on a video game, which was going down from 60€, to just 10€. And she was like, "It's dirt cheap, if you want, I can deliver it to your address!".
And I was like that's very touching! Thank you, I really do appreciate it. What's the game by the way?
So she looked it up in her emails... Oh, it's a game called...
FALLOUT 76.
I bursted out laughing. I told her that this was like, the worst fucking game she could have told me and that it was no wonder she got such a special discount. Because this was just at release, when the game was such a train wreck, that retail stores and like, were slashing the prices just to get rid of the damn thing.
(I hear it's good now? I played it for literally 10 minutes, and the game was so horrendously bad looking and so buggy, I never touched it again.)
We laughed about it, and I said, send it anyway, just for fun, might as well.
Two days passes, and there it is. Fallout 76, in my own hands. How jolly. So I open my package, get the game out and... you know what? It felt good! It was exciting, you don't get that many physical releases on PC nowadays. They exist, but there is almost never a reason to buy them, because usually, you can get the game much cheaper on a digital platform. So having a physical game in your hands, for your PC, it's a very rare thing and kind of nostalgic too. Even if it was that game out of all of them, I was still happy to get that physical thing in my hand.
So anyway, I get my PC already, open the box, and to my utter dismay...
...it was a fucking cardboard disc! With a product key on it!
To this day, I don't know how to feel about it. Because on one hand it sucks and is wasteful but on the other hand... nah it just sucks, but I don't know, there is something that I find really funny about having a whole plastic box, just to hold a disc shaped piece of cardboard in it. It's not just a sheet of paper, no, there was some effort put in.
But hey! At least it was not a total waste from stop because this wasn't just fallout 76 come on this was the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. Amazon Edition of the game. So I got some cool official Vault Boy pins!
Thanks mom! :D
...makes me wonder if Starfield will come with a cardboard disc too. It would be a shame, because I really love the steelbook for this game. It's so clean and beautiful. But to house a cardboard disc? One which you can basically throw away as soon as you use the key? :/
Why even sell a physical box if it has absolutely no benefit over a digital download? I wonder if it's at all driven by desire to trick people who want a physical disk copy (ie, a copy that can be resold or traded)?
Having a product on a shelf is a form of marketing. It's why big releases get a full wall at GameStop. They cna keep a box in the back, but the publisher has paid for all of that shelf space, and they've paid for it because it makes it look like a big deal to people who are just wandering in looking for a gift, or for their next thing to play between Fifa or Madden releases.
I have no idea why you're being downvoted; this is literally what those walls full of game boxes were meant for (even back when they actually had shit in 'em).
No benefit? I only buy physical (when possible), because then the game is mine. You dont own digital only games, you just license them. I can give back, resell or lend my games and I get a feeling of ownership. I hate the direction the games industry is going.
because then the game is mine.
EULAs say otherwise even in that case.
They don't. They clarify that owning a copy of the game does not confer copyright ownership, and they outline public performance rights, but it's ownership over a physical object in the same way owning a lamp is, or perhaps more appropriately, the way in which owning a book is.
If you say that you "own a copy of Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell," no one crawls out of the work to argue IP and copyright law. Everyone understands what is meant.
This is no different.
Given the wording of some EULAs that's debatable. Not that those clauses would be enforceable if anyone actually tried, mind you.
It's a physical box that contains a download code. There's no game inside. No disc, no cartridge, nothing that actually holds the product.
You're not reselling that.
Thats exactly what bugs me.
Yes, but understand the exchange you're having:
"Why sell a physical box if it contains no game? There's no benefit to buying it!"
"No benefit? Buying physical means I own it!"
Does it not seem like you're ignoring the actual issue being discussed?
No, they're saying that what is being sold here is being falsely advertized as a physical copy of the game when it is not.
"Why sell a physical box if it contains no game?" Is about this "physical edition" that isn't.
"Buying physical means I own it" is about actual physical editions that aren't lies.
You've missed the point. The point was not that it was a fake physical box (we all get that), but rather why sell a fake physical box.
Maybe I misunderstood your point, but I think the original comment was saying they like buying physical, transferable copies of games (ie. disks) because of the points they mentioned. The Starfield physical copy is pointless because you're not getting a transferable copy, you'll just get a single use code (which is the same as buying digital). The only reason people would want the Starfield physical copy is to have an item on their shelf.
But physical disks now won't let you play unless you download 500GB worth of "updates"
I miss old physical games where you had the disk and that's it
That's still the half the case on Switch. You can put the cart in and play without installing the game to system storage, but how big the patches are and how necessary they are varies.
A lot of the third-party compilations for Switch include one game and allow you to download the rest (Assassin’s Creed is one).
On the plus side, Nintendo is good about releasing revision cartridges with updates. I think that new copies of Breath of the Wild and Mario Odyssey have been fully patched for years.
because then the game is mine.
What? No, that's wrong. You only ever purchase a license to play the game. The only thing you own is the package and the disc.
Also, you can just copy the files of the digital download.
You only ever own a license and possibly a medium, not the game. From the perspective of the law there is very little difference. Now, the terms of use of a particular DRM platform, this is a different matter.
Honestly I'm not very bothered. I struggle to see this as false advertising when they're declaring on public forums that physical copies will not include a disc, and it's quite likely that those physical copies will also state on them that it includes a code and not a disc.
Given our increasing environmental concerns the idea that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of discs are not going to be produced for this is a good thing, I think. I imagine the only reason a physical version exists at all is to ensure the game has a presence in physical stores, so large advertisements can catch people's eye, so stores can do related promotions. In essence, all those empty boxes will be produced purely for advertising purposes, otherwise I imagine they would scrap physical copies all together to save the related production, transportation, and logistics costs.
I think at least part of it is to let people buy with cash or store credit though I do wish they made it more like a branded gift card or something because that would be less waste
I do wish they made it more like a branded gift card
That would be preferable.
Those already exist, they just want the presence a plastic box has on the shelves
Nintendo does exactly this with digital Switch games, so it's definitely possible for Starfield too
Because brick and mortar retail isn't entirely dead. Impulse buys, Christmas gifts, etc etc etc etc. All the reasons to have a product for sale in a store. The product was never the CD or DVD or floppy disks, and gamers who make a fuss about it are just crotchety for the sake of it. There's no reason to print physical media. I haven't even owned an optical drive in my pc for well over a decade. Still bought some "physical copies" of games that were just codes. I'm not upset.
You're old grandpa, go back inside and stop yelling at The Cloud.
Ffs, a shockingly large portion of the U.S. still has terrible internet. People buy physical copies so they don't have to download over several days and exceed their data caps.
Others enjoy physical copies for the collectible aspect, which a box alone does not suffice for at all.
Selling a box that looks like it contains a physical copy, and calling it a physical copy, when it demonstrably isn't is just deceptive advertizing. If they just want to sell a digital copy in stores, it should be a card with a code on it and marked as a digital only copy.
You're entitled to not care about the physical copues yourself, but calling everyone who does care "crotchety for the sake of it" is just nonsensical and shitty.
You have a problem with packaging. The product is the software. Software. Soft. Media is irrelevant. You may as well be insisting games be provided on floppy disks for your own contentedness.
It isn't false advertising. You're just self-entitled and want companies to cater to you specifically and not the masses. Gamers are really the most entitled group of folks on the planet. You may as well demand Netflix provide VHS copies of every new show they make. Same stupid argument. If you don't like your arguments being called stupid, don't publicize your stupid arguments.
chill a bit, please. other people are disagreeing here without saying things like "You’re old grandpa, go back inside and stop yelling at The Cloud." or making charges like "You’re just self-entitled", so you shouldn't need to either at the people you disagree with.
I'm calm as shit man. Relaxing on a Sunday. It's just that I'm not wrong. He is self-entitled. He wants game developers to spend their money publishing DVDs for the one-off collectors -- nevermind the environment, nevermind that they're going to be downloading day 1 updates the size of the game anyway, nevermind all of the ridiculous arguments about "oh poor me, they won't let me easily copy and distribute their product to my friends". Nope -- "I'm a collector, and game developers are awful people for not giving me my CD and this should be illegal and society should make laws to satisfy my collector quirk."
Are you fucking for real. Go back and read this fuckin' thread, dude, that's what people are fucking saying. "Make laws against this".
That's self-entitlement defined. It's not a charge, it's an observation made by an adult living in a society of law regarding another publicly made comment. I offered scrutiny from the apparently rare perspective of being a grown up.
And this is very much a childish argument. Like whining your dinner at the restaurant didn't come in a colorful box with a toy inside, or that the book you have to read has no pictures in it. They're not even complaining about the product, they're complaining about the package it's delivered in. Literally the same as saying "that meal is gonna suck because it didn't come in a McDonalds box". Six year olds think like that.
Gamers are the most entitled group of brats on the planet and this is just one tiny example it. Literally demanding useless plastic trash, not even a toy or anything you look at - no, just a useless blu-ray disc that the hardware all but ignores anyway.
And again - I'm calm as shit. Don't make the mistake of thinking a few paragraphs means I'm angry. That's just being lazy, you can read. Hell, you can even read criticism. And if you can't, get the hell off social media.
"i am very chill" you then proceed to write what is basically a screed doubling down--this isn't ban worthy but it is a bit silly, please do a little bit of self-reflection here about how this comes off right now
It's pretty fucking immature (and gaslighty) to respond to valid criticism with "chill out bro".
Go ahead and ban me, you don't need to make passive-aggressive threats. You can just power-trip away. Don't forget to leave a comment that reads "user was banned" so everyone knows how calm and collected you are with your ban hammer.
And I'll say it again. *Deep breath, peaceful mind, thoughtful spirit*: That user is an entitled child who made a stupid argument.
I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but that's not what gaslighting is and it's fairly disrespectful to those who have actually experienced that kind of abuse to just throw the term around because someone disagreed with you and asked you to calm down.
When someone says a thing and you deliberately interpret anger where there was none (especially after they've said it, "I'm not angry") and insist they "calm down" rather than addressing any valid criticism or complaint they actually bring up, that's quite gaslighty. It's intentionally presenting a false reality and insisting I adhere to it "or he's just wild, he won't calm down".
Or "he's just a troll not worthy of consideration" as you put it. Which is definitively dehumanizing as well, but you don't see me whining about it. It is ironic though. Me calling childish arguments childish, whoa! You calling someone a troll, that's perfectly reasonable. You calm down.
It's not strictly the same as gaslighting but that's why I said "gaslighty". But go off about the hypothetical strangers I belittled, please, whatever gets you going down there.
Hey bud you're at like a 130%, I'mma need you to drop down to like a 15% please
You're absolutely right. All these people shouting about "back in my day we owned games!" are forgetting that games have to be manufactured. Is all that plastic and pollution worth having a plastic rectangle with a different plastic circle in it? At the end of the day once you've played the game that's it, it's yours. Your experience is unique and it can't be taken away, don't cling to manufactured waste when what you cherish are the memories.
Honestly if you're making the environmental argument then you also have to factor in all the electricity, rare earth metals, fossil fuels etc. used to serve games over the internet - data centres aren't exactly eco-friendly places, and running a worldwide network of fibre optic / copper cables takes a fair chunk of resources.
Electricity can be generated sustainably. Rare earth metals can be recycled. We are working on alternatives to fossil fuels. Environmental issues aren't a zero sum game. You don't "Lose" just because something else also pollutes. It's an issue that is worked on systematically. Could it be a lot faster? Yes of course. But we work with what we have.
Data centers are also multi-use. You don't build a data center just to house your game. You pay for the space in one that already exists. A company can choose to make software available on a platform that is open to a large portion of the world, or it can spend cash and resources shipping boxes of plastic all over the world. The pollution and waste generated by shipping something across an ocean massive. Do you really want to put all that into the air so you can have the plastic circle?
It's probably driven by a desire to keep retail partners happy with stocked store shelves.
This may have been an error, either the employee mistook the special edition with the regular, or Microsoft saw how angry people were.
Would be a terrible decision during their Activision legal battle, turning Bethesda into a worse company for the consumer.
Yup, they were specifically referring to the PC edition, which makes a lot more sense.
No matter where you look in Media, digital copies have outpaced physical. And it´s not even close! So the step is not really a surprise. Also, some games are already essentially a digital copy, even if "some" game files get delivered on a disc. But the lack of a physical medium is not what sucks about this. It´s the fact that you link the purchase to your own account of whatever store it´s in and that´s it. No lending, selling or gifting once you activated the code. I actually prefer to buy cartridges for the switch because of that very reason.
But with digital downloads being so much more convenient and instantly available, I don´t see how any market forces would ever change this. Also, people pre order digital copies as if they worry the store wouldn´t have enough copies on launch day, which is also quite telling.
Yeah the bummer is the system they were going to implement for Xbox one was going to allow game lending which would have been a decent first step towards proper digital ownership of games.
I mean, who would expect Starfield to fit on a disk?
then put in X Disks.
we did that with (floppy) disks forever, and CDs too.
I don't remember any DVDs using that, but they surely existed
A single Quad layer Bluray could fit the entire game, but not a ton of PC users have an optical drive, much less a Bluray capable one. A microSD card or USB drive might be more viable these days. A 128GB costs less than $10.
When you want to stick to DVDs you would need either 27 (DVD-5), 15 (DVD-9) or 8 (DVD-18). Multi-DVD releases are definitely a thing. Star Wars Battlefront comes on 4 discs. I suspect they would opt for a DVD-9 release as this allows you to print artwork on one of the sites and you likely need a few extra discs as you cannot use all of the storage for data. So we talk about a 16-18 disc release. ~22mm (7/8 inch) of DVD goodness.
while I referenced DVD on the top end, I was assuming Blue Ray for the game fyi.
not sure how big the game is, but rather sure it fits in <4 Blue Rays.
I think for USB drives and micro SD the durability is terrible (like trying to read it after 5 years has a 10% failure rate, No Idea about the stat, just to illustrate)
Star ocean the last hope on the 360 had 3 disks
Recently red dead 2 had a game disc and a play disc.
It actually does. Blurays go up to 128GB and the game needs 125GB.
I think that out spec current xbox consoles? cause I remember reading series x only supports up to the dual layer 66gb ones.
They most definitely can read triple layer discs as they are commonly used for 4K Blu-rays. And when a drive can read TL-Blurays it most likely also can read QL-Blu-rays just fine. However, those are rare so I would suspect a 2x TL release.
And who the fuck has a Bluray drive in their PC?
I mean, even the Skyrim disc for PC just ran a script to download it via Steam. This has been coming for a long time.
CDs in current gen physical copies aren't really much more than a license to download anyway considering many require a gigantic day 1 patch to play. So the CD doesn't really give you anything anymore (except I guess you could lend it to a friend).
You also can't sell it, and thus also can't buy it used. This is the final move to end the used market for console games.
I'll continue to avoid digital-only games copy for as long as I can because of this.
After a few years I typically replace my console, and sold the oldgen along with physical game copies. Sometimes I sell games sooner.
Each time I reconsider whether to buy Xbox vs Playstation, availability of physical copies is always a precondition.
I’m disappointed that there isn’t a consumer protection law against this.
Microsoft tried to kill borrowing and lending, and this just seems like ankther attempt. Someone with a real presence on other sites (and is good at social media) should stir up a backlash.
I hate digital-only media. :/
Things like this is why I already made the switch to digital games. If the one point of having physical media was to have a backup, and nowadays most games aren't even fully on the cartridge/disc, whats the point? At that point it's just another form of DRM.
This isn't too surprising though, Microsoft has been big into getting rid of physical media.
I knew it. As soon as Epic announced their bullshit I saw the end in sight.
I don't follow news with Epic much, but what do they have to do with Starfield or physical games?
They're publishing Alan Wake 2. Alan Wake 2 will be digital-only.
No refunds, I assume
They’re now saying that this was incorrect: the Xbox release will include a disc.
This doesn't directly affect me, as I've exclusively bought digital games only for over a decade, but it still annoys me based on principle. It's basically a bait and switch - it would be far more honest to just say "it's digital only" than to sell a useless physical box.
Same. I buy exclusively digital for the convenience, but how can they claim this is a physical version of the game when it doesn't physically include the game? It's not even a loophole at those point. It's just a lie.
So, the physical release is just... actual garbage? Like sure, someone may proudly display it in their bookshelf or whatever, but then, it eventually becomes trash, and there's no reason to keep any of it because there's no physical copy of the game which can be resold or even borrowed out to friends?
That's not a "physical release", that's a piece of merchandise, as useful as a Funko Pop.
Only if you paid $$$ for the "Constellation Edition" - that includes a digital watch, a nice case, and a few other physical goodies. It's already sold out though, so yeah don't bother now to buy any physical edition.
Honestly, one of the reasons to get a physical copy is to save time on the download. Not everyone has blazing fast or reliable internet where they live. Just having to download a patch as opposed to the entire 80+ GB game can be a big deal to some. I know it was like that for me back when the only thing available in a past residence was DSL. No cable or Fiber, just DSL.
This argument was laughed at some 10 years ago already, because everyone in the western world has good enough Internet and if you live in the middle of bumfuck, nowhere, then you should move.
What has changed in 10 years is that now Eastern Europe has good Internet too, with the exception of Estonia, where Telia is allowed to be supreme overlord of deciding who gets fiber and who doesn't. Spoiler alert: If you don't live in a building with 20+ apartments, they don't really care much about getting fiber to your building.
To make matters even more ironic, we're supposed to be the tiny IT powerhouse of Europe and even the whole world. Well then why the hell does it take me 10+ minutes to download a fresh dockerized Java/Kotlin project's dependencies from Maven at home?! And 5+ minutes for any individual Cargo project even if it's not dockerized because it seems Cargo doesn't even have a central local cache like Maven does, it's per project.
I'm a big fan of physical games, I want to own them, and play them even if the internet isn't available, and this blocks that, I don't want it. I don't have a gaming PC anymore because I can buy a console cheaper, but if physical discs are gone, gaming PC's allow for piracy so I can keep the games for as long as I want because I don't see every future Xbox having backward compatibility.
I understand the sentiment, but how many new releases can you really play without any internet connection? You often need to download a day 1 patch or contact the game servers to be able to play, even for single player games.
It's annoying for the customer, but it's not a new development.
It's totally unacceptable to me too. I would only buy if it is on physical disk or is available as a full DRM-free offline installer.
Also the used game market makes it so you can buy and sell your games when you are done with them. I switched to PC awhile ago. I don't think it's really cheaper. It cost about $1000 to build a PC that can compete with a $400 console.
pirate more than ten games and you come out ahead
I don't really like playing pirated games. I enjoy steam cloud save. I like being able to switch between my PC and my steamdeck and my laptop.
Yes but that PC can generally last longer, and perform far more tasks. It isn't a fair comparison to use price alone.
It depends on your use case. If you're always buying the newest games it ends up being more expensive since the games cost the same at launch and a comparable PC will always cost more than a console. But if you have a big backlog of old games you still like to play, take advantage of pc sales (being a smart shopper, buy game keys from other storefronts, don't need every need game you want at or near launch), like to mod, and need a computer that is powerful for other reasons already then there's a reduction of cost with all of that plus additional benefits for continuing to play on PC as you upgrade.
That PC is an investment. It will easily outlast at least three generations of $500 consoles, because it can be upgraded.
Yeah but upgrading your GPU costs as much as a new console.
"physical" release my ass.
Release your ass, buddy.
Are the three days already over?
I'm not your buddy, pal.
Im not you pal, friend.
Welp. With this and other AAA games like Alan Wake going full digital, I suppose the end is nigh for physical media. It's a real shame. I own tons of physical games dating back to the Atari 2600. I tend to view things like Limited Run Games to be collector bait, so I guess most of my games are going to be purchased on GOG or Steam once the plug is pulled(I do not trust digital storefronts on console).
What really sucks is that it eliminates any sort of trade-in systems. I rarely have the desire to play a game I've already finished, at least I would be able to recoup some of that money towards a new game. There goes that along with lending games to friends
How often does that happen these days though? Trading in games or lending to friends hasn't been worth it for a while. Trades are worth a handful of dollars and if your friends are adults they can probably afford their own game anyway. We cling too much to an era where people could still believe the earth would be fine. It's a hobby, is it really worth it?
they can still support encrypted format usb sticks which technically doesn't have storage limit. (then decrypt/then encode again when transfer to your console. as if they are downloaded from the server)
Like windows OS is selling on usb sticks.
That's not really a physical release then? It's basically one of those cards they have hanging up at walmart, but with an unnecessary box. And the whole point of the box is as a protective distribution method for physical media.
There ought to be a law that a physical release of a game sold in a box has to include some kind of physical media that contains a version of the game. Yes, I get that a multi-gig Day 1 Patch is inevitable, but as someone that had to rely on a craptastic mobile broadband connection for a solid year or two, this is a travesty.
If you wanna just sell a code for a digital version in retail stores, just sell code cards without the plastic disk-like box. It wastes less resources, and makes it more clear what it is.
Boxes should come with branded USB sticks (who even has a disc drive these days?), and if the physical version isn't a box why even bother. Random swag is the point.
I've been saying this for years, blurays have a relatively small (by mobern standards) size cap, USB sticks just keep getting bigger
Well, my previous PC still had disc drives -- two in fact, a DVD reader and a CD-RW. Only because I didn't get a new case and didn't have any replacement front panels, though, they were never connected because PATA doesn't work well on a SATA-only board. Also still had a 3.5" floppy drive, also not connected, for the same reason.
Now my case doesn't even have a bay to put a drive into.
My last desktop (made 3 quarters of a decade ago now) didn't, but that's becouse I knew someone with a USB disc reader, the only thing I ever needed it for was installing windows though
Well, the PS5 and XBOX Series X still use disks as their physical media... but yeah, the Series XBOXes in particular could switch over to those storage modules you can slam into the back of the consoles. At least for exclusives - the XBOne has no port for those.
But for PC... I reckon most people buy games on Steam there anyway.
And while I would appreciate swag... I think most developers would only go with cheap non-brandname USB sticks with the logo of the game printed on it, that's built just good enough to not spontaneously combust if you look at it funny.
No, they would spend way too much money on custom USB drives. There would be 20 different kinds, with the super premium gold edition* only being available as a preorder bonus that costs $20 extra.
*does not contain real gold
The stupid reason for the box is probably that people equate size with value, and stores have a harder time charging $90 for a slip of paper.
Easy fix: Print the install size on the slip of paper in big letters.
In Bytes if need be.
More than 1 billion bytes per dollar!
If it’s just a code in a box, does that mean it can’t be resold?
Yes
I love physical media because it's so easy to get rid of it whenever you want. Are you sick of a game or don't want to touch it ever again? Resell on the used market for a few bucks or give it to a friend or a young neighbor that might appreciate it. I like to keep a lean collection of games that I actually care about and might replay eventually.
You will own nothing and be happy
I know people drive sales of digital media because of convince, hell I have bought a few movies digitally myself for this reason. However with the videogame industry you are truly right. You are dropping 60/70 bucks so that Microsoft, Bethesda, or whoever, can just yank these games from their platform for no reason. You are then left with nothing, maybe a backwards compatibility release on the next platform, but guess what, your buying that shit again.
It is truly baffling the lack of foresight, with clear examples of this issue such as Nintendo's shops closing, and psn manipulating of backwards compatibility hardware over the years of PS3.
Saddens me greatly.
Look around and realize how you got here to Lemmy/kbin/beehaw/etc - you were betrayed by a few VC-captured executives that made profit-blinded, consumer-hostile decisions about an important product you used frequently. They ruined it.
Anyone here defending digital media or saying it's not that bad or they should have done a digital lending system, you're not remembering the recent past.
The only acceptable ground to give here is NONE. Physical media needs to start mandatory, or your purchases are never owned and you're always at risk and at the whims of someone like Spez.
This.
Also, AAA companies shouldn't be able to ask for pre-orders and them deliver botched games that require terabytes of network traffic just to be playable. Physical media should be playable (decent framerate and seamless-enough gameplay) from the beggining.
Alternatively downloadable self-contained installers like what you get from https://www.gog.com/
One day my mother called me out of the blue. She told me, that Amazon had sent her an email, because they had a very special deal on a video game, which was going down from 60€, to just 10€. And she was like, "It's dirt cheap, if you want, I can deliver it to your address!".
And I was like that's very touching! Thank you, I really do appreciate it. What's the game by the way?
So she looked it up in her emails... Oh, it's a game called...
FALLOUT 76.
I bursted out laughing. I told her that this was like, the worst fucking game she could have told me and that it was no wonder she got such a special discount. Because this was just at release, when the game was such a train wreck, that retail stores and like, were slashing the prices just to get rid of the damn thing.
We laughed about it, and I said, send it anyway, just for fun, might as well.
Two days passes, and there it is. Fallout 76, in my own hands. How jolly. So I open my package, get the game out and... you know what? It felt good! It was exciting, you don't get that many physical releases on PC nowadays. They exist, but there is almost never a reason to buy them, because usually, you can get the game much cheaper on a digital platform. So having a physical game in your hands, for your PC, it's a very rare thing and kind of nostalgic too. Even if it was that game out of all of them, I was still happy to get that physical thing in my hand.
So anyway, I get my PC already, open the box, and to my utter dismay...
...it was a fucking cardboard disc! With a product key on it!
To this day, I don't know how to feel about it. Because on one hand it sucks and is wasteful but on the other hand... nah it just sucks, but I don't know, there is something that I find really funny about having a whole plastic box, just to hold a disc shaped piece of cardboard in it. It's not just a sheet of paper, no, there was some effort put in.
But hey! At least it was not a total waste from stop because this wasn't just fallout 76 come on this was the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. Amazon Edition of the game. So I got some cool official Vault Boy pins!
Thanks mom! :D
Why even sell a physical box if it has absolutely no benefit over a digital download? I wonder if it's at all driven by desire to trick people who want a physical disk copy (ie, a copy that can be resold or traded)?
Having a product on a shelf is a form of marketing. It's why big releases get a full wall at GameStop. They cna keep a box in the back, but the publisher has paid for all of that shelf space, and they've paid for it because it makes it look like a big deal to people who are just wandering in looking for a gift, or for their next thing to play between Fifa or Madden releases.
I have no idea why you're being downvoted; this is literally what those walls full of game boxes were meant for (even back when they actually had shit in 'em).
No benefit? I only buy physical (when possible), because then the game is mine. You dont own digital only games, you just license them. I can give back, resell or lend my games and I get a feeling of ownership. I hate the direction the games industry is going.
EULAs say otherwise even in that case.
They don't. They clarify that owning a copy of the game does not confer copyright ownership, and they outline public performance rights, but it's ownership over a physical object in the same way owning a lamp is, or perhaps more appropriately, the way in which owning a book is.
If you say that you "own a copy of Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell," no one crawls out of the work to argue IP and copyright law. Everyone understands what is meant.
This is no different.
Given the wording of some EULAs that's debatable. Not that those clauses would be enforceable if anyone actually tried, mind you.
It's a physical box that contains a download code. There's no game inside. No disc, no cartridge, nothing that actually holds the product.
You're not reselling that.
Thats exactly what bugs me.
Yes, but understand the exchange you're having:
"Why sell a physical box if it contains no game? There's no benefit to buying it!"
"No benefit? Buying physical means I own it!"
Does it not seem like you're ignoring the actual issue being discussed?
No, they're saying that what is being sold here is being falsely advertized as a physical copy of the game when it is not.
"Why sell a physical box if it contains no game?" Is about this "physical edition" that isn't.
"Buying physical means I own it" is about actual physical editions that aren't lies.
You've missed the point. The point was not that it was a fake physical box (we all get that), but rather why sell a fake physical box.
Maybe I misunderstood your point, but I think the original comment was saying they like buying physical, transferable copies of games (ie. disks) because of the points they mentioned. The Starfield physical copy is pointless because you're not getting a transferable copy, you'll just get a single use code (which is the same as buying digital). The only reason people would want the Starfield physical copy is to have an item on their shelf.
But physical disks now won't let you play unless you download 500GB worth of "updates"
I miss old physical games where you had the disk and that's it
That's still the half the case on Switch. You can put the cart in and play without installing the game to system storage, but how big the patches are and how necessary they are varies.
A lot of the third-party compilations for Switch include one game and allow you to download the rest (Assassin’s Creed is one).
On the plus side, Nintendo is good about releasing revision cartridges with updates. I think that new copies of Breath of the Wild and Mario Odyssey have been fully patched for years.
What? No, that's wrong. You only ever purchase a license to play the game. The only thing you own is the package and the disc.
Also, you can just copy the files of the digital download.
You only ever own a license and possibly a medium, not the game. From the perspective of the law there is very little difference. Now, the terms of use of a particular DRM platform, this is a different matter.
Honestly I'm not very bothered. I struggle to see this as false advertising when they're declaring on public forums that physical copies will not include a disc, and it's quite likely that those physical copies will also state on them that it includes a code and not a disc.
Given our increasing environmental concerns the idea that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of discs are not going to be produced for this is a good thing, I think. I imagine the only reason a physical version exists at all is to ensure the game has a presence in physical stores, so large advertisements can catch people's eye, so stores can do related promotions. In essence, all those empty boxes will be produced purely for advertising purposes, otherwise I imagine they would scrap physical copies all together to save the related production, transportation, and logistics costs.
I think at least part of it is to let people buy with cash or store credit though I do wish they made it more like a branded gift card or something because that would be less waste
That would be preferable.
Those already exist, they just want the presence a plastic box has on the shelves
Nintendo does exactly this with digital Switch games, so it's definitely possible for Starfield too
Because brick and mortar retail isn't entirely dead. Impulse buys, Christmas gifts, etc etc etc etc. All the reasons to have a product for sale in a store. The product was never the CD or DVD or floppy disks, and gamers who make a fuss about it are just crotchety for the sake of it. There's no reason to print physical media. I haven't even owned an optical drive in my pc for well over a decade. Still bought some "physical copies" of games that were just codes. I'm not upset.
You're old grandpa, go back inside and stop yelling at The Cloud.
Ffs, a shockingly large portion of the U.S. still has terrible internet. People buy physical copies so they don't have to download over several days and exceed their data caps.
Others enjoy physical copies for the collectible aspect, which a box alone does not suffice for at all.
Selling a box that looks like it contains a physical copy, and calling it a physical copy, when it demonstrably isn't is just deceptive advertizing. If they just want to sell a digital copy in stores, it should be a card with a code on it and marked as a digital only copy.
You're entitled to not care about the physical copues yourself, but calling everyone who does care "crotchety for the sake of it" is just nonsensical and shitty.
You have a problem with packaging. The product is the software. Software. Soft. Media is irrelevant. You may as well be insisting games be provided on floppy disks for your own contentedness.
It isn't false advertising. You're just self-entitled and want companies to cater to you specifically and not the masses. Gamers are really the most entitled group of folks on the planet. You may as well demand Netflix provide VHS copies of every new show they make. Same stupid argument. If you don't like your arguments being called stupid, don't publicize your stupid arguments.
chill a bit, please. other people are disagreeing here without saying things like "You’re old grandpa, go back inside and stop yelling at The Cloud." or making charges like "You’re just self-entitled", so you shouldn't need to either at the people you disagree with.
I'm calm as shit man. Relaxing on a Sunday. It's just that I'm not wrong. He is self-entitled. He wants game developers to spend their money publishing DVDs for the one-off collectors -- nevermind the environment, nevermind that they're going to be downloading day 1 updates the size of the game anyway, nevermind all of the ridiculous arguments about "oh poor me, they won't let me easily copy and distribute their product to my friends". Nope -- "I'm a collector, and game developers are awful people for not giving me my CD and this should be illegal and society should make laws to satisfy my collector quirk."
Are you fucking for real. Go back and read this fuckin' thread, dude, that's what people are fucking saying. "Make laws against this".
That's self-entitlement defined. It's not a charge, it's an observation made by an adult living in a society of law regarding another publicly made comment. I offered scrutiny from the apparently rare perspective of being a grown up.
And this is very much a childish argument. Like whining your dinner at the restaurant didn't come in a colorful box with a toy inside, or that the book you have to read has no pictures in it. They're not even complaining about the product, they're complaining about the package it's delivered in. Literally the same as saying "that meal is gonna suck because it didn't come in a McDonalds box". Six year olds think like that.
Gamers are the most entitled group of brats on the planet and this is just one tiny example it. Literally demanding useless plastic trash, not even a toy or anything you look at - no, just a useless blu-ray disc that the hardware all but ignores anyway.
And again - I'm calm as shit. Don't make the mistake of thinking a few paragraphs means I'm angry. That's just being lazy, you can read. Hell, you can even read criticism. And if you can't, get the hell off social media.
"i am very chill" you then proceed to write what is basically a screed doubling down--this isn't ban worthy but it is a bit silly, please do a little bit of self-reflection here about how this comes off right now
It's pretty fucking immature (and gaslighty) to respond to valid criticism with "chill out bro".
Go ahead and ban me, you don't need to make passive-aggressive threats. You can just power-trip away. Don't forget to leave a comment that reads "user was banned" so everyone knows how calm and collected you are with your ban hammer.
And I'll say it again. *Deep breath, peaceful mind, thoughtful spirit*: That user is an entitled child who made a stupid argument.
I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but that's not what gaslighting is and it's fairly disrespectful to those who have actually experienced that kind of abuse to just throw the term around because someone disagreed with you and asked you to calm down.
When someone says a thing and you deliberately interpret anger where there was none (especially after they've said it, "I'm not angry") and insist they "calm down" rather than addressing any valid criticism or complaint they actually bring up, that's quite gaslighty. It's intentionally presenting a false reality and insisting I adhere to it "or he's just wild, he won't calm down".
Or "he's just a troll not worthy of consideration" as you put it. Which is definitively dehumanizing as well, but you don't see me whining about it. It is ironic though. Me calling childish arguments childish, whoa! You calling someone a troll, that's perfectly reasonable. You calm down.
It's not strictly the same as gaslighting but that's why I said "gaslighty". But go off about the hypothetical strangers I belittled, please, whatever gets you going down there.
Hey bud you're at like a 130%, I'mma need you to drop down to like a 15% please
You're absolutely right. All these people shouting about "back in my day we owned games!" are forgetting that games have to be manufactured. Is all that plastic and pollution worth having a plastic rectangle with a different plastic circle in it? At the end of the day once you've played the game that's it, it's yours. Your experience is unique and it can't be taken away, don't cling to manufactured waste when what you cherish are the memories.
Honestly if you're making the environmental argument then you also have to factor in all the electricity, rare earth metals, fossil fuels etc. used to serve games over the internet - data centres aren't exactly eco-friendly places, and running a worldwide network of fibre optic / copper cables takes a fair chunk of resources.
Electricity can be generated sustainably. Rare earth metals can be recycled. We are working on alternatives to fossil fuels. Environmental issues aren't a zero sum game. You don't "Lose" just because something else also pollutes. It's an issue that is worked on systematically. Could it be a lot faster? Yes of course. But we work with what we have.
Data centers are also multi-use. You don't build a data center just to house your game. You pay for the space in one that already exists. A company can choose to make software available on a platform that is open to a large portion of the world, or it can spend cash and resources shipping boxes of plastic all over the world. The pollution and waste generated by shipping something across an ocean massive. Do you really want to put all that into the air so you can have the plastic circle?
It's probably driven by a desire to keep retail partners happy with stocked store shelves.
This may have been an error, either the employee mistook the special edition with the regular, or Microsoft saw how angry people were.
Would be a terrible decision during their Activision legal battle, turning Bethesda into a worse company for the consumer.
Edit: It's looking more like miscommunication
Yup, they were specifically referring to the PC edition, which makes a lot more sense.
No matter where you look in Media, digital copies have outpaced physical. And it´s not even close! So the step is not really a surprise. Also, some games are already essentially a digital copy, even if "some" game files get delivered on a disc. But the lack of a physical medium is not what sucks about this. It´s the fact that you link the purchase to your own account of whatever store it´s in and that´s it. No lending, selling or gifting once you activated the code. I actually prefer to buy cartridges for the switch because of that very reason.
But with digital downloads being so much more convenient and instantly available, I don´t see how any market forces would ever change this. Also, people pre order digital copies as if they worry the store wouldn´t have enough copies on launch day, which is also quite telling.
Yeah the bummer is the system they were going to implement for Xbox one was going to allow game lending which would have been a decent first step towards proper digital ownership of games.
I mean, who would expect Starfield to fit on a disk?
then put in X Disks.
we did that with (floppy) disks forever, and CDs too.
I don't remember any DVDs using that, but they surely existed
A single Quad layer Bluray could fit the entire game, but not a ton of PC users have an optical drive, much less a Bluray capable one. A microSD card or USB drive might be more viable these days. A 128GB costs less than $10. When you want to stick to DVDs you would need either 27 (DVD-5), 15 (DVD-9) or 8 (DVD-18). Multi-DVD releases are definitely a thing. Star Wars Battlefront comes on 4 discs. I suspect they would opt for a DVD-9 release as this allows you to print artwork on one of the sites and you likely need a few extra discs as you cannot use all of the storage for data. So we talk about a 16-18 disc release. ~22mm (7/8 inch) of DVD goodness.
while I referenced DVD on the top end, I was assuming Blue Ray for the game fyi.
not sure how big the game is, but rather sure it fits in <4 Blue Rays.
I think for USB drives and micro SD the durability is terrible (like trying to read it after 5 years has a 10% failure rate, No Idea about the stat, just to illustrate)
Star ocean the last hope on the 360 had 3 disks
Recently red dead 2 had a game disc and a play disc.
It actually does. Blurays go up to 128GB and the game needs 125GB.
I think that out spec current xbox consoles? cause I remember reading series x only supports up to the dual layer 66gb ones.
They most definitely can read triple layer discs as they are commonly used for 4K Blu-rays. And when a drive can read TL-Blurays it most likely also can read QL-Blu-rays just fine. However, those are rare so I would suspect a 2x TL release.
And who the fuck has a Bluray drive in their PC?
I mean, even the Skyrim disc for PC just ran a script to download it via Steam. This has been coming for a long time.
CDs in current gen physical copies aren't really much more than a license to download anyway considering many require a gigantic day 1 patch to play. So the CD doesn't really give you anything anymore (except I guess you could lend it to a friend).
You also can't sell it, and thus also can't buy it used. This is the final move to end the used market for console games.
I'll continue to avoid digital-only games copy for as long as I can because of this.
After a few years I typically replace my console, and sold the oldgen along with physical game copies. Sometimes I sell games sooner.
Each time I reconsider whether to buy Xbox vs Playstation, availability of physical copies is always a precondition.
I’m disappointed that there isn’t a consumer protection law against this.
Microsoft tried to kill borrowing and lending, and this just seems like ankther attempt. Someone with a real presence on other sites (and is good at social media) should stir up a backlash.
I hate digital-only media. :/
Things like this is why I already made the switch to digital games. If the one point of having physical media was to have a backup, and nowadays most games aren't even fully on the cartridge/disc, whats the point? At that point it's just another form of DRM.
This isn't too surprising though, Microsoft has been big into getting rid of physical media.
I knew it. As soon as Epic announced their bullshit I saw the end in sight.
I don't follow news with Epic much, but what do they have to do with Starfield or physical games?
They're publishing Alan Wake 2. Alan Wake 2 will be digital-only.
No refunds, I assume
They’re now saying that this was incorrect: the Xbox release will include a disc.
https://www.gamespot.com/amp-articles/starfield-does-have-a-physical-disc-after-all/1100-6515495/
This is good for GME lol