Hobbycraft refused to sell paint to black man as ‘he may use it for graffiti’

stopthatgirl7@kbin.social to News@lemmy.world – 348 points – Hobbycraft refused to sell paint to black man as ‘he may use it for graffiti’
theguardian.com

Louis Gray says he was racially profiled after trying to buy spray paint to make over his son’s bicycle helmet

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Sounds like they shouldn't sell spray paint at all if they're so concerned about graffiti. How many other products of theirs could be used for vandalism? Maybe the safest option is to go out of business entirely.

Spray-paint tends to be solvent-based, and spraying it onto a helmet can fundamentally compromise its structure/strength.

Please don't ever use solvent-based stuff on multi-layer plastic helmets, for sake of your brain, who needs that helmet to work properly, when one gets slammed into the asphalt/concrete.

Please.

That seems a bit unlikely. The solvents quickly evaporate off. Unless you are soaking it in solvents, there won't be enough to cause any relevant effect. Meanwhile the helmet is exposed to UV light on a daily basis, which will also degrade it over time.

You are also not going to burn from briefly touching laundry detergent, but keeping lots of it on your skin would be a problem.

Helmets are basically medium density styrofoam with a plastic cover. You ever spray painted styrofoam? It melts INSTANTLY ..

And you spray on the hard plastic cover, not the styrofoam itself

I'm not here to tell you what to do but most regular consumer grade helmets I've seen would be hard to spray the outside without hitting the foam especially near the vents... Foam which, once again, melts INSTANTLY when spray painted. Foam which is also basically the whole protective value of the helmet.

Anyways I'm sure there are helmets where it's possible to spray paint without damaging the foam. Or you could do a good job taping. Or you could shrug at the hopefully minor foam damage. Many helmets never have to protect your head so you might be lucky there too. All I'm saying is that there are good reasons to say "don't spray paint helmets" as general good advice.

Pretty easy to avoid if you use tape.

Depends on how many vents and how small they are. At the very least, it could be very time consuming to avoid while also still spraying most of the hard plastic. Would be easier to hand-paint.

Helmets are usually polycarbonate and the common solvent in spray paint is xylene. Xylene causes extreme degradation in polycarbonate. If you don't know if the helmet and the paint are compatible, it's not safe to paint it.

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That's not how helmets work. The outer shell certainly helps mitigate bumps and bangs, but what really protects your head is the styrofoam inner that compresses like an airbag upon impact.

No it's both. The outer shell deforms before breaking and then the foam absorbs the rest of the impact.

Dude there are many different helmet designs, with both thick and thin plastic covers. In a practical day to day use case, the plastic shell is there for appearance as well as protection for the primary means to prevent damage to the foam core of the helmet. The foam is no good if it gets damaged the first time you accidentally drop it on the pavement.

I'm sure it can play some role in protecting your head, but it's main purpose is to keep the foam on your head on one piece in case of an accident.

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Those motherfuckers made his four-year-old cry.

I hope corporate throws the book at them.

Nope.

In an email later sent to Gray, Hobbycraft said they were continuing to investigate. “We would one again like to apologise for your recent experience in our store,” the email said. “We hae a zero tolerance approach to racism … and this is not how we want any of our customers to feel."

“Your situation involved the purchase of age restricted product which requires age verification, meaning all colleagues are trained to ask for ID should they believe the customer is under the age of 25. As you were unable to share ID with our colleagues, they were unfortunately unable to authorise the sale.”

Arguing with staff until your son cries because you don't have ID on you generally makes me think of you as an asshole.

Yeah, you're right. People should just accept racism in order to teach their child the lesson that racism against them is acceptable.

I'm an anti racist skinhead who's also worked in retail. I'm not at the point that I accept that this wasn't a tantrum, but I accept there might be discriminatory elements. I don't really know how carding works in the UK, but in the US if someone asks you're not getting service if all you've got on you is your cell phone.

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Because white people never graffiti anything. Uh huh.

I'd be thinking of buying some spray paint from this guy and then using it to vandalize his building

At my place, there's an artshop that has a metal fence around a spray cans and markers section that can only be opened by asking the staff. You know, not car paint or usual permanents, but specialized stuff branded exclusively towards bombing walls and tagging surfaces, like Montana. I was surprised why they even sell them if they think they are connected to crime and are afraid they are first targets to be lifted. I thought about buying them, but the whole procedure was so embarrassing and they were so overpriced. Them and Hobbycraft staff probably think they solved the graffiti problem, won the battle against the hydra of crime by that. They haven't mistaken that much in their lives. Nor in Louis case, that'd hopefully lead to consequencies, nor in mine leading to many acts of silly vandalism. Fuck them UwU

I've never been in a spray paint section at a store where people hadn't opened the cans and painted all over everything. Perhaps that has something to do with it.

Hardware store near me taped contractor paper to the floor so give people a place to test out. They replace it once it gets too many layers.

As a general reminder, if you have fallen and the helmet took the impact, replace the helmet. If your helmet has been damaged through other means, replace it. They are not meant to be reused after keeping your brain within its skull.

Just like hardhats, you want to inspect them frequently and there is a good chance they have expiration dates. I would be cautious painting them as the chemicals may damage the integrity of the helmet, especially the foam. We always just covered them in stickers. When in doubt, check with the manufacturer.

Yeah, styrofoam dissolves if you try to spray paint it so this seems like a terrible idea anyways

What's the point in burying the fact that he didn't have ID. You could argue they carded you because you were black but not refused service.

You need Id to buy spray? What kind of stupid shit is that? How would they know it was you even if they have your id? It seems like they'd just go after all the black people who bought spray when something gets vandalized.

What a stupid country you live in, I can't imagine getting carded for buying art supplies. If you're worried it's gonna be used for crime, don't sell it.

Yeah! Why do you need ID to buy a canister of pressurized flammable gas that can also get you high?

When I worked retail, we were required to ID for gas dusters as well. We also had people come in and request that we put members of their family on a "No sell" list for gas dusters too. That was always sad.

You're just adding to my point. These rules are only there for "lower class" people. I live in an affluent area and you can get that shit at the dollar store around here, nobody ids you. That shit is easy to get anywhere, and if you're so worried, don't sell it.

As a person of color who grew up in an affluent white area, I also grew up very aware of how I was looked at and treated in contrast to my peers, I got used to certain looks and questions when entering a store.

Now that I'm an adult I don't deal with that shit. I bought like 10 cans of spray paint last week for work, and if anyone had asked me for Id or asked what I needed it for I would have told them it was none of their damn business

You bring up a valid point that I never thought about.

I always needed ID to buy spray paint - I'm also brown. I was into graffiti (not the tagging but the social rights kind) and my after school program taught it.

Makes me wonder if all this time, it was discrimination.

FWIW, I'm about as white as they come, and I've probably been carded more in my lifetime to buy spray paint than I have for alcohol.

It's pretty standard practice in my area. Maybe it's different in other places, or from one store to another, but most places around me seem to err on the side of carding everyone.

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Not that this wasn't racism, but if you are going to request ID for a product, don't put an age limit. Don't make the poor clerks have to decide that crap.

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Have they used the wrong picture?

How is he black?

Or under 25 for that matter? Mf's hairline is as bad as mine.

He is a light-skinned black man, you can put away your Pantone reference materials, calipers, or whatever other race science tools you're employing here.

If you read the article, the alt text says that's him and his son. There's also a link to his Twitter account.

I read it, but it is The Grauniad. They're not exactly known for proof reading.

This is the UK if yall were wondering. Still super strange, youd think theyd have had a black customer before.

There's a photo of this guy in the article. He looks white. Maybe the lighting in the photo is way off, but I have a hard time believing that they profiled him based on his appearance.

Edit: The photo in the article is a good representation of his appearance. Here's another one.

Dude is literally the same color as I am, a light-skinned Black person, going by the picture, and yes, I’ve had clerks follow me in stores and white women clutch their purses when I pass, and every man in my family, all of whom are that color, have “being pulled over by the cops” story, so I’m not exactly sure what you’re trying to do here.

You sure you aren't just looking for any tiny problems in the world to blame on your skin color? I swear people are always looking for ways to be a victim.

Please try to be a serious person.

I never once claimed to be a “victim,” so don’t put words in my mouth. But racism is real and it happens, no matter how much some folks really want to pretend it’s just folks looking to be “victims.”

Man shut the fuck up. Just because the USA was able to pretend we thought people who looked like that were white to steal physicists from Iran for a little bit, doesn't mean he is white passing. Also notice the guy's hairline is clearly that of a dad, why would you card him. Fuck off idiot

As an old white lady myself I'm disappointed in you, trying to find any tiny excuse to deny the racism that's all around you in our world.

You sure you aren't a being a titanic jerk right now? Even your username might be evidence that you're consumed by negativity, but that's beside the point. Why would you assume they're hallucinating that racism exists? Seriously: stop and ask yourself that question. Why side against this person who has done nothing but share their experiences?

I'm a white dude from the southeast and I have these stories: the only time I've gotten harassed by podunk shitheel cops is when I'm around Black and Latino friends, and when I had a truck with FIGHT RACISM written on the back. The only time I get followed around stores is with friends that just so happen to be darker than me - what a coincidence, eh? On the other end of the spectrum, I've had to put up with racist shit being shared with me out in the sticks from white folks who assumed I'm as racist as they are. Saying that folks are looking to be a victim makes you either complicit in or ignorant of racism that still exists in the here and now, and more than likely some of both.

TLDR: If you're not a troll, then all I have to say is bless your heart. Look inward and try to improve yourself.

The store is saying he was challenged for not having ID, as a challenge 25 thing.

So forgetting the colour of his skin, do you think he looks 25 or over?

He looks like he's probably at least 25 but if I could get in trouble for being wrong, I think I would card him.

I do, but making a big deal over his white grandad not getting carded is a bit much for me.

That picture doesn't look like "a white guy." You might not be sure he's Black, but he definitely looks "of color," at least. Enough for racism to play a part in the interaction.