They actually likely did this due to SEO. Google was allegedly in the process of removing tweets from the search index because they weren’t accessible. This happens automatically for most sites.
This feels like an extremely basic thing to miss. Something 10 seconds of thought would have fixed.
I guarantee you whoever pushed this to prod knew exactly what was going to happen, but the super genius(🤮) in charge is always right and must never be questioned.
Does anyone else think a lot about the incredible irony of western freedom-loving democracies being fine and dandy with the fact that nearly 100% of workplaces are top-down dictatorships? Even when you're "given" freedom to act independently, it's always predicated upon your decisions and actions aligning with the wishes of your superiors. The second that isn't the case, you get your marching orders, and you can either comply or fuck off.
It would be one thing if employment were "optional" to some degree, or there were always more jobs than people to do them, but so many people are one missed paycheck or medical emergency away from homelessness, you basically have no choice but to grin and bear it.
It's positive liberty vs. negative. We sacrificed one to give away another, and have the gall to call it freedom when we really mean the freedom to oppress.
My upper manager always goes on about "empowerment" being part of the new direction for the business, but wouldn't you know, we still get drawn and quartered for the smallest errors.
Are you sure they didn’t mispronounce “employee disembowelment”?
There are solutions to level the playing field like unions or European works councils https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_council . but it's still top down in the end. Always seemed strange to me, perhaps it's the way to get things done...
The real solution isn't those things; it's structuring the businesseses as employee-owned co-ops.
It would be one thing if employment were “optional” to some degree, or there were always more jobs than people to do them, but so many people are one missed paycheck or medical emergency away from homelessness, you basically have no choice but to grin and bear it.
Well, it is "optional" to some degree. I know plenty of people across Europe who are doing oke enough on basic support. It's not an amazing living but it's not like you are out on the streets. And a medical emergency will not cripple you with debt.
At least far as actually freedom-loving democracies go (as in, free to abort, free to express your identity, free to protest, ...).
He's the Wile E Coyote of Tech.
Nah, I actually like Wile E. Coyote
The supreme leader is always right!
All hail plankton
So much this. The leader on top is the one who instills the corporate culture. In this case, the engineers have no say in the matter. They need to do what they're told.
Okay but that would involve whoever is in charge there to think longer than 10 seconds.
How does Pinterest get around this then? They pollute image searches like crazy, and require you to login to see anything. At least they did, I blocked them from searches so maybe it's different now.
Pinterest is cancer. They act like their content belongs to them when it's all stolen images
They must have changed their paywall behavior, I just went and was able to see every image I clicked on.
The login popup appears after a few pages but you can just exit out and keep viewing. Google should be able to index the pages without access issues
Maybe that previous aggressive login screen killed their SEO before, I see much less pinterest images than I used to years ago
it 100% did, google removed over half the twitter links on its index due to dead links/login requirements, which if kept like that would basically kill all Twitter traffic since most traffic comes from search engines
Most of these sites serve the information, then put up something to block being able to view it.
Easy - detect if you're getting accessed by a search crawler or a human. Serve a full page or just a login request.
Perhaps a safety vest as well. You know, for access.
Adding a clipboard and a ladder will make it even more official
Ever heard of https://12ft.io/ ?
It allows you to bypass alot of pay walls by basically pretending to be a search engine trying to index a website. For SEO reasons a lot of pay walled sites allow search engines to access the whole article to index.
12ft.io leverages this to show you whole articles behind paywalls.
This is something you could also achieve by spoofing the User-Agent.
It would probably work for things like Pinterest without an account as well, but that's something I have never tried (since I have no interest in the cancer that is Pinterest).
And if they didn't fire everyone, someone with a spec of sense would have told them this
Same with popups that try to throw you to only a mobile app
What makes you think that even if someone told Musk that, he would have listened to them?
True. If it were a good idea he would have already thought of it, right?
Every single one of these "iNDePENdeNT/liBerTaRian" tech bros think they're the smartest man in the room. Too high on their own farts.
He was firing people before who told him something wasn't going to work, so it wouldn't surprise me if everyone who knew this would fail stayed silent in fear for their jobs.
Yes, most likely, within days they lost half of their links in Google.
How tf they did not see this happening?
Since Elon I don’t think Twitter has been thinking about the long term effects of their actions. Everyone predicted the blue checkmark fiasco but they went ahead with it anyway so this doesn’t surprise me.
Probably also advertisement revenue. Why would people go on twitter if they can't see anything? Why would advertisers pay money to show ads to no-one?
Yeah they were already doing that, I imagine he took a look at how many inbound visits come from Google and quickly U-turned
This is hilarious. You don't change your mind about a new policy unless it was absolutely terrible and threatened your business. I can't see twitter surviving much longer; how are they even going to make money?
I saw one reporter describe it as if Costco decided to make every checkout "10 items or less."
What is a Costco?
Assuming you're genuinely asking. It's a retail store primarily in the US that is for buying items in bulk.
Also trying to establish itself in the EU. One store is in Sweden now.
They could probably survive off of elon's surplus cash alone for a few years
But he's a deadbeat who doesn't pay his bills like Trump. He's squatting sand isn't paying rent, so there's no way he's using his own money for that
Plus, people should really understand how someone being a billionaire works. They don't have billions of dollars sitting in a bank account somewhere.
They leverage their investments to take out short term loans or the like against their invested capital.
Musk is a billionaire on paper. Like most. His wealth is represented by his ownership shares of Tesla, speculation on the valuation of space x and solar city.
He's not selling his interests or shares in Tesla to buy things here. He's leveraging them.
Similar to how you can have your house paid off, and then get a new mortgage against your house for an injection of capital. You're leveraging the equity you have in your home. Which is based on the current perceived value of your home in the current market.
If the market changes drastically, so does the amount you can leaverage.
TL;DR; he does not have cash sitting around he can burn through to actually pay bills, and he's absolutely not going to pay his Google cloud hosting bill with his Tesla shares unless absolutely forced to (at which point he'd probably just sell Twitter).
He doesn't have he got bailed out to buy that sinking ship
A lot of government agencies use Twitter for breaking news, notifications, and alerts that they're trying to get out as quickly as possible to as many people as possible, such as tornado warnings, amber alerts, traffic conditions, etc. I can't imagine they'd stick around a platform that requires logging in to view these messages.
Kind of terrible that we ever got to this point. I've seen announcements from government agencies that are ONLY available on social media. Who thought that was okay?
The joys of neoliberalism and privatization. When you're convinced the private sector can do no wrong and the government can do no right, is it any surprise that this is the outcome?
Welcome to the dumbest timeline
I can’t imagine they stick around on a platform that isn’t stable and in the last year has changed direction so many times that almost no one can keep up with it. It’s the instability and constant changing that makes people jump ship from a previously stable platform. It’s not like a Lemmy instance where it’s to be expected for a while.
This morning storm Poly smashed the Netherlands, especially North Holland (Amsterdam region). Digital emergency alert system was used, three times, and directed people to Twitter.
Which was closed, of course. It's a political shitshow right now. Amsterdam municipality already runs its own Mastodon, and this fuckup will probably have consequences in moving official broadcast channels off Twitter.
Nonsense like this is why I believe outdoor warning sirens are still incredibly important. Mobile alerts are not foolproof, and can be bungled horribly, and not everybody has their phone on them, or a phone at all. If there's a severe storm or tornado coming, you need to know ASAP. Sirens are an excellent way of getting people indoors, regardless of who's outside. I heard the Netherlands was considering decommissioning its countrywide siren system, which I thought was absolutely fucking stupid. What you posted proves exactly why.
Which was closed, of course. It’s a political shitshow right now. Amsterdam municipality already runs its own Mastodon, and this fuckup will probably have consequences in moving official broadcast channels off Twitter.
Ideally governments should be pushing things like threat to life alerts out via a digital emergency alert system (e.g. Amber alerts) rather than hoping those potentially impacted are checking Twitter.
Which is funny because the UK decided to finally implement this recently and my god the Twitter Boomers were mad.
I reluctantly disabled all government alerts on my phone a few years ago because despite theoretically having multiple levels of importance (minor alerts, major alerts, critical alerts), apparently they weren't categorizing the alerts when they sent them out so I kept receiving all alerts, even minor ones and alerts for things happening far from where I live, and to make matters worse they overrode do not disturb. Hopefully they've improved the system by now, but I haven't thought to check until this conversation thread.
Let me guess... Amber Alerts in Canada being sent as the "presidential alert" which bypasses everything on your phone and wakes you up at 3AM? Goddamn Alert Ready is a mess.
I read that public service annoucement accounts were excempt from the change, but it's just bad business either way.
Just today we had a severe storm alert pushed to phones through the emergency system here in the Netherlands and the alert contained the fire department’s twitter handle. I was like “welp, I guess I’ll hear the updates later”
I thought the exact same thing this morning when the NL alert had a Twitter reference in it
These companies know that the power is with the people. We just need regulars who are not tech educated to get themselves educated and see how the power shifts from these companies to FOSS and decentralized platforms.
You're talking about an issue humanity has had since forever, getting people to do what is best for their own interests. In business they actually needed to create the concept of a union just so that people would organize in a way to help all workers. Without that force driving them together what you get is the Reddit 48hr blackout. People can't stop using the service long enough to invoke actual change because their addiction to Reddit was too high.
This rollback of login requirements was because Google stopped indexing them. The only power the people had in the Twitter situation was being the consumers of Google who were being directed away from Twitter.
It's a problem of collective consciousness, the majority of humanity are about 30-100 years behind the bleeding edge of education and comprehension. It takes a long time to bring all those people up to speed. There's a reason they say "Science advances one funeral at a time." Because new lessons aren't learned by old people, why would you relearn something you already know?
This younger generation is the first to really get it though. And yet personal wants still trump actual progress.
Business genius.
Irrelevant. Nitter still not working.
When you do something abysmally stupid, then have to walk it back, not saying anything is a lot safer than trying to explain.
I don't know though. I'd find a certain amount of entertainment in watching him ummm and stutter his way through the explanation.
And the number of people surprised...?
No, 800. Aaaarrrrgh!
Didn't like not being on googles results page did ya Elmo?
And yet Fritter doesn't work right now. Are they blocking 3rd party apps like Reddit, or is it something with Fritter?
Fritter works by scraping the twitter website, so it should be working. The only issue is however that the website changed a lot so I guess the scraping strategies don't work as well now.
Damn it's like whoever is taking these decisions has no idea what he's doing
I still can’t see any tweets. Maybe it’s a Canada thing..
I still can't see any tweets. Because I value my mental health and don't go looking for the horrible things.
Granted. That’s why I got myself permanently banned from Twitter.
I'm in Canada and can see a tweet IF it is directly linked. If you click on the person's feed it says "there's a problem". So it is not as useless as before but still is for any sort of emergency or critical news dissemination.
I see, now, yeah. Pretty terrible.
One does not simply mess with Google!
My eyeballs are scraping this thread at this very instant!
Not here...
Exactly. Idk why, but I still need to log in.
Tech giants fighting each other.
Interesting to see how they have all managed a system with each other that is so hard to switch around.
Based on how this was (apparently?) an automatic response by the Google search algorithm, seems more like a case of:
Twitter: ”You took everything from me!”
Google: ”I don’t even know who you are”
Probably coulda just like… emailed someone at Google and asked before making the switch.
So trying out changes to a platform isn’t a bad thing and can lead to a lot of good optimization, but usually you don’t just push them onto the entire user base without testing/marketing research to try and anticipate their effects.
How exactly do these changes make it to production without being evaluated? I know blame is mostly on Musk here but do the software devs really never stand up and say “we’ll look into it and get back to you in a few weeks”?
The only devs left are those whose visas are tied to employment, so they can't piss of the management or they get deported.
The reason this doesn't make sense to you is because of how you're framing it.
This corpo is being run unilaterally by someone unconcerned with its longevity. It's that simple.
always be fail whalin'
I love your username! It's so hard to come up with a good one, but that's one is great!
Twitter 2.0 is really just a startup company
I read that as standup comedy, and I'll stick with that
Lol too little too late.
Still doesn't work for me?
It may be rolling out, there was a point after the change was initially implemented when some people reported still being able to get in
They actually likely did this due to SEO. Google was allegedly in the process of removing tweets from the search index because they weren’t accessible. This happens automatically for most sites.
This feels like an extremely basic thing to miss. Something 10 seconds of thought would have fixed.
I guarantee you whoever pushed this to prod knew exactly what was going to happen, but the super genius(🤮) in charge is always right and must never be questioned.
Does anyone else think a lot about the incredible irony of western freedom-loving democracies being fine and dandy with the fact that nearly 100% of workplaces are top-down dictatorships? Even when you're "given" freedom to act independently, it's always predicated upon your decisions and actions aligning with the wishes of your superiors. The second that isn't the case, you get your marching orders, and you can either comply or fuck off.
It would be one thing if employment were "optional" to some degree, or there were always more jobs than people to do them, but so many people are one missed paycheck or medical emergency away from homelessness, you basically have no choice but to grin and bear it.
It's positive liberty vs. negative. We sacrificed one to give away another, and have the gall to call it freedom when we really mean the freedom to oppress.
My upper manager always goes on about "empowerment" being part of the new direction for the business, but wouldn't you know, we still get drawn and quartered for the smallest errors.
Are you sure they didn’t mispronounce “employee disembowelment”?
There are solutions to level the playing field like unions or European works councils https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_council . but it's still top down in the end. Always seemed strange to me, perhaps it's the way to get things done...
The real solution isn't those things; it's structuring the businesseses as employee-owned co-ops.
Well, it is "optional" to some degree. I know plenty of people across Europe who are doing oke enough on basic support. It's not an amazing living but it's not like you are out on the streets. And a medical emergency will not cripple you with debt.
At least far as actually freedom-loving democracies go (as in, free to abort, free to express your identity, free to protest, ...).
He's the Wile E Coyote of Tech.
Nah, I actually like Wile E. Coyote
The supreme leader is always right!
All hail plankton
So much this. The leader on top is the one who instills the corporate culture. In this case, the engineers have no say in the matter. They need to do what they're told.
Okay but that would involve whoever is in charge there to think longer than 10 seconds.
How does Pinterest get around this then? They pollute image searches like crazy, and require you to login to see anything. At least they did, I blocked them from searches so maybe it's different now.
Pinterest is cancer. They act like their content belongs to them when it's all stolen images
They must have changed their paywall behavior, I just went and was able to see every image I clicked on.
The login popup appears after a few pages but you can just exit out and keep viewing. Google should be able to index the pages without access issues
Maybe that previous aggressive login screen killed their SEO before, I see much less pinterest images than I used to years ago
it 100% did, google removed over half the twitter links on its index due to dead links/login requirements, which if kept like that would basically kill all Twitter traffic since most traffic comes from search engines
Most of these sites serve the information, then put up something to block being able to view it.
Easy - detect if you're getting accessed by a search crawler or a human. Serve a full page or just a login request.
So how can a user pretend to be a web crawler?
This browser addon can spoof useragents:https://add0n.com/useragent-switcher.html
You're going to need a special hat.
Perhaps a safety vest as well. You know, for access.
Adding a clipboard and a ladder will make it even more official
Ever heard of https://12ft.io/ ? It allows you to bypass alot of pay walls by basically pretending to be a search engine trying to index a website. For SEO reasons a lot of pay walled sites allow search engines to access the whole article to index. 12ft.io leverages this to show you whole articles behind paywalls. This is something you could also achieve by spoofing the User-Agent. It would probably work for things like Pinterest without an account as well, but that's something I have never tried (since I have no interest in the cancer that is Pinterest).
And if they didn't fire everyone, someone with a spec of sense would have told them this
Same with popups that try to throw you to only a mobile app
What makes you think that even if someone told Musk that, he would have listened to them?
True. If it were a good idea he would have already thought of it, right?
Every single one of these "iNDePENdeNT/liBerTaRian" tech bros think they're the smartest man in the room. Too high on their own farts.
He was firing people before who told him something wasn't going to work, so it wouldn't surprise me if everyone who knew this would fail stayed silent in fear for their jobs.
Yes, most likely, within days they lost half of their links in Google.
How tf they did not see this happening?
Since Elon I don’t think Twitter has been thinking about the long term effects of their actions. Everyone predicted the blue checkmark fiasco but they went ahead with it anyway so this doesn’t surprise me.
Probably also advertisement revenue. Why would people go on twitter if they can't see anything? Why would advertisers pay money to show ads to no-one?
I think Elon got quite a talking to.
https://www.rawstory.com/google-twitter/
Yeah they were already doing that, I imagine he took a look at how many inbound visits come from Google and quickly U-turned
This is hilarious. You don't change your mind about a new policy unless it was absolutely terrible and threatened your business. I can't see twitter surviving much longer; how are they even going to make money?
I saw one reporter describe it as if Costco decided to make every checkout "10 items or less."
What is a Costco?
Assuming you're genuinely asking. It's a retail store primarily in the US that is for buying items in bulk.
Also trying to establish itself in the EU. One store is in Sweden now.
They could probably survive off of elon's surplus cash alone for a few years
But he's a deadbeat who doesn't pay his bills like Trump. He's squatting sand isn't paying rent, so there's no way he's using his own money for that
Plus, people should really understand how someone being a billionaire works. They don't have billions of dollars sitting in a bank account somewhere.
They leverage their investments to take out short term loans or the like against their invested capital.
Musk is a billionaire on paper. Like most. His wealth is represented by his ownership shares of Tesla, speculation on the valuation of space x and solar city.
He's not selling his interests or shares in Tesla to buy things here. He's leveraging them.
Similar to how you can have your house paid off, and then get a new mortgage against your house for an injection of capital. You're leveraging the equity you have in your home. Which is based on the current perceived value of your home in the current market.
If the market changes drastically, so does the amount you can leaverage.
TL;DR; he does not have cash sitting around he can burn through to actually pay bills, and he's absolutely not going to pay his Google cloud hosting bill with his Tesla shares unless absolutely forced to (at which point he'd probably just sell Twitter).
Or Saudi or Qatari slave state money.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/10/28/saudis-kingdom-holding-company-to-maintain-twitter-stake
He doesn't have he got bailed out to buy that sinking ship
A lot of government agencies use Twitter for breaking news, notifications, and alerts that they're trying to get out as quickly as possible to as many people as possible, such as tornado warnings, amber alerts, traffic conditions, etc. I can't imagine they'd stick around a platform that requires logging in to view these messages.
Kind of terrible that we ever got to this point. I've seen announcements from government agencies that are ONLY available on social media. Who thought that was okay?
The joys of neoliberalism and privatization. When you're convinced the private sector can do no wrong and the government can do no right, is it any surprise that this is the outcome?
Welcome to the dumbest timeline
I can’t imagine they stick around on a platform that isn’t stable and in the last year has changed direction so many times that almost no one can keep up with it. It’s the instability and constant changing that makes people jump ship from a previously stable platform. It’s not like a Lemmy instance where it’s to be expected for a while.
This morning storm Poly smashed the Netherlands, especially North Holland (Amsterdam region). Digital emergency alert system was used, three times, and directed people to Twitter.
Which was closed, of course. It's a political shitshow right now. Amsterdam municipality already runs its own Mastodon, and this fuckup will probably have consequences in moving official broadcast channels off Twitter.
Nonsense like this is why I believe outdoor warning sirens are still incredibly important. Mobile alerts are not foolproof, and can be bungled horribly, and not everybody has their phone on them, or a phone at all. If there's a severe storm or tornado coming, you need to know ASAP. Sirens are an excellent way of getting people indoors, regardless of who's outside. I heard the Netherlands was considering decommissioning its countrywide siren system, which I thought was absolutely fucking stupid. What you posted proves exactly why.
Germanys gov runs its own Mastodon instances - social.bund.de - where the cabinet, the ministries, state institutes etc have their official accounts.
Some non-political examples are: The German Weather Service, the German Aerospace Institute, and the Consumer Protection Agency.
Ideally governments should be pushing things like threat to life alerts out via a digital emergency alert system (e.g. Amber alerts) rather than hoping those potentially impacted are checking Twitter.
Which is funny because the UK decided to finally implement this recently and my god the Twitter Boomers were mad.
I reluctantly disabled all government alerts on my phone a few years ago because despite theoretically having multiple levels of importance (minor alerts, major alerts, critical alerts), apparently they weren't categorizing the alerts when they sent them out so I kept receiving all alerts, even minor ones and alerts for things happening far from where I live, and to make matters worse they overrode do not disturb. Hopefully they've improved the system by now, but I haven't thought to check until this conversation thread.
Let me guess... Amber Alerts in Canada being sent as the "presidential alert" which bypasses everything on your phone and wakes you up at 3AM? Goddamn Alert Ready is a mess.
I read that public service annoucement accounts were excempt from the change, but it's just bad business either way.
Just today we had a severe storm alert pushed to phones through the emergency system here in the Netherlands and the alert contained the fire department’s twitter handle. I was like “welp, I guess I’ll hear the updates later”
I thought the exact same thing this morning when the NL alert had a Twitter reference in it
These companies know that the power is with the people. We just need regulars who are not tech educated to get themselves educated and see how the power shifts from these companies to FOSS and decentralized platforms.
You're talking about an issue humanity has had since forever, getting people to do what is best for their own interests. In business they actually needed to create the concept of a union just so that people would organize in a way to help all workers. Without that force driving them together what you get is the Reddit 48hr blackout. People can't stop using the service long enough to invoke actual change because their addiction to Reddit was too high.
This rollback of login requirements was because Google stopped indexing them. The only power the people had in the Twitter situation was being the consumers of Google who were being directed away from Twitter.
It's a problem of collective consciousness, the majority of humanity are about 30-100 years behind the bleeding edge of education and comprehension. It takes a long time to bring all those people up to speed. There's a reason they say "Science advances one funeral at a time." Because new lessons aren't learned by old people, why would you relearn something you already know?
This younger generation is the first to really get it though. And yet personal wants still trump actual progress.
Business genius.
Irrelevant. Nitter still not working.
When you do something abysmally stupid, then have to walk it back, not saying anything is a lot safer than trying to explain.
I don't know though. I'd find a certain amount of entertainment in watching him ummm and stutter his way through the explanation.
And the number of people surprised...?
Didn't like not being on googles results page did ya Elmo?
And yet Fritter doesn't work right now. Are they blocking 3rd party apps like Reddit, or is it something with Fritter?
Fritter works by scraping the twitter website, so it should be working. The only issue is however that the website changed a lot so I guess the scraping strategies don't work as well now.
Damn it's like whoever is taking these decisions has no idea what he's doing
I still can’t see any tweets. Maybe it’s a Canada thing..
I still can't see any tweets. Because I value my mental health and don't go looking for the horrible things.
Granted. That’s why I got myself permanently banned from Twitter.
I'm in Canada and can see a tweet IF it is directly linked. If you click on the person's feed it says "there's a problem". So it is not as useless as before but still is for any sort of emergency or critical news dissemination.
I see, now, yeah. Pretty terrible.
One does not simply mess with Google!
My eyeballs are scraping this thread at this very instant!
Not here...
Exactly. Idk why, but I still need to log in.
Tech giants fighting each other.
Interesting to see how they have all managed a system with each other that is so hard to switch around.
Based on how this was (apparently?) an automatic response by the Google search algorithm, seems more like a case of:
Twitter: ”You took everything from me!”
Google: ”I don’t even know who you are”
Probably coulda just like… emailed someone at Google and asked before making the switch.
So trying out changes to a platform isn’t a bad thing and can lead to a lot of good optimization, but usually you don’t just push them onto the entire user base without testing/marketing research to try and anticipate their effects.
How exactly do these changes make it to production without being evaluated? I know blame is mostly on Musk here but do the software devs really never stand up and say “we’ll look into it and get back to you in a few weeks”?
The only devs left are those whose visas are tied to employment, so they can't piss of the management or they get deported.
The reason this doesn't make sense to you is because of how you're framing it.
This corpo is being run unilaterally by someone unconcerned with its longevity. It's that simple.
always be fail whalin'
I love your username! It's so hard to come up with a good one, but that's one is great!
Twitter 2.0 is really just a startup company
I read that as standup comedy, and I'll stick with that
Lol too little too late.
Still doesn't work for me?
It may be rolling out, there was a point after the change was initially implemented when some people reported still being able to get in
Elon is speedrunning bankruptcy right now.
He fucked around and found out.