We'll need to wait for the release. Before launch cyberpunk was also getting good reviews ;)
Honestly this is what pissed me off about the reaction to cyberpunk bugs. I remember how the fallout games were at launch. And I think even now trying to play new Vegas on Xbox (360 I think?) Has an issue if your save file gets too big where the save will corrupt.
CDPR definitely over promised. But every business does. They probably should've not released on last gen consoles at all, but that is tricky as fuck. I mean when they started to dev cp2077, I doubt Sony and MS even had dev units for next gen. Probably should've delayed last gen release only, made a transparent explanation and apology, and did what they ended up doing after release. But I had a low mid tier PC that played it at a solid 60 fps without major issue at launch. And it was exactly what I had hoped.
I'll probably also really like starfield, warts and all, when it drops. These are just my type of game.
People defending CDPR when they completely lied about the product aha, consumers be crazy these days.
To be honest, half the stuff people claim they lied about was always entirely speculation hype that never had any backing.
Otherwise, for some people the game worked just fine. For others the game was nearly or entirely unplayable, and everything in between. Cdpr certainly lied and should have delayed their game's release, probably upwards of a couple years, but the situation is rarely portrayed accurately.
I guess we just imagined their trailers and dev interviews then aha
I'm not saying they didn't lie, there are many of features which were at best skeletons of the features that were expected. But I'm just saying a lot of the hype around the game was so out of control you had people on the sub reddit talking about how cool the car customization will be, or how they can't wait to play, what would've amounted to essentially, gtav but with arasaka. Talking any l about features which actively were never even slightly implied to exist.
People get way too excited for any game, should always expect a pile of shit these days and just be pleasantly surprised instead. People are die hard fans of games like CP2077 before they even release, it's not good.
But expectations don't come from nowhere, a lot of the city stuff they were selling was like GTA, but the AI didn't even release at a 2004 San Andreas level, it's still not as good as GTA AI and that's just people walking/driving around convincingly. GTA V itself was 7 years old when CP2077 released, it's not surprising people were expecting a simulation of the world to be at least as good as that. I think their scope was too big, there was probs a lot of mismanagement behind the scenes. I don't know how they spent 8 years on it and it still turned out like it did, I guess we will never know what happened. The story is the only saving grace, they should have just delayed it and tried to make it a more linear story game and just abandon any RPG-esque/open world elements that were left.
Being critical of games is good, especially ones that completely shit the bed, defending it just leads to more of that in the future. I love BG3 for example, but it has it's fair share of issues that I can point out every time I play it. Why would I not want better products? Why settle for less? There's too much submissive consumerism these days.
I played through the whole game last year and while I had fun, you can definitely tell the scope is too big. There's lots to do but when you do things, there isn't much depth. Systems that you think should be in place just aren't there. The game also has a lot of features that align with open world action games of the era like Ghost of Tsushima or Horizon Forbidden West. There's stealth, there's a crafting system, there's collectibles and fetch quests. But there's few features that align with most other role playing games. You cant get a bite to eat at nearly any restaurant. You can't have a conversation with an NPC that isn't one of the dozen that's relevant to the story. (My favorite activity in fallout is to chat with random characters about random things.) Dialogue trees are shockingly stiff and inconsequential. Most missions have choices but it boils down to "X character is alive instead of unconscious."
There's a lot more I could go into but in general it just came across like it was almost unfinished. The only mission I played that felt like a true RPG mission instead of a stealth game or a shooter was the Flathead mission, so it makes sense that's the mission they relentlessly previewed back in 2019.
Agreed. The biggest issue for me, as a PC gamer who expected bugs at launch, was really that it's a stealth/action game that was marketed as an RPG even though it has precious few consequential choices or playstyle options.
For sure. And who knows, much of that could be guerrilla marketing to stoke the hype.
Expecting cp2077 to be anything like GTA is just silly. They are entirely different games.
And the RPG elements are fine, it's already very linear, and plays like you're the focus character of a cyberpunk campaign. They did just fine on that front, so I don't really understand your critique there.
CDPR fucked up big time, but they did spend another couple of years fixing a lot of shit and adding content.
Also, Cyperpunk: Edgerunner was pretty dope.
Honestly this is what pissed me off about the reaction to cyberpunk bugs. I remember how the fallout games were at launch
I bought the fallout games at launch. I bought Cyberpunk months after launch when I found it on clearance. Cyberpunk was still far less playable for me than the fallout games were at launch.
This was due to:
The game crashing at least once per hour
Falling through the ground at least one per hour
Dying suddenly though nothing was attacking me at least once per hour
Questlines breaking and being un-repairable
Additionally, CP2077 had all the same bugs in Fallout/Elder Scrolls releases.
I usually power through buggy RPG releases, but I waited to give CP a couple more patches before actually trying to play through it.
Even if it is true, the bar is embedded somewhere on Earth's inner core.
To be fair, Bethesda games are a fucking train wreck at launch so this is like an article saying this is the dryest water they've ever made.
Careful the devil doesn't trip over that bar.
That's a pretty low bar to cross.
You know, I don't remember Morrowind actually being that bad, but I played on the GotY version so maybe they actually fixed their shit in those days.
The GotY version of Morrowind feels less buggy than the original release. For example, some older PC versions frequently crashed because of some pointer error in the UI. The game detected this and created crash-recovery savegames like what MS Office does for your documents.
If the best praise their PR people have to put forward is that it's not quite as horrifically buggy as previous Bethesda games, that's... not a great sign; Microsoft paid $7.5B for ZeniMax in large part so that this specific game would be an Xbox exclusive, if it's not the level of masterpiece that gets people to buy Xboxes just to run it then it'll be one of their biggest fails since Clippy.
Eh, I'd say that's pretty good in context. Bethesda has, for the most part, put out very successful games. Bugs and Bethesda are pretty synonymous though, and that this is on the less buggy side is something to quell hot takes of "Bugfield" before people even touch it. And I think the embargo restricts deeper comments on the game, so these may he the only comments we get for a few more days.
How far did they dig to find that bar?
"least buggiest"? Hmm, I know what "least buggy" would mean, not sure how to parse this one. On the bottom end of the buggiest bunch?
The gamiest of games
I know all the best words, okay, people are saying that I know the most beautiful words, okay, no one knows more about words than I do, big beautiful words, the WORDIST even.
Last time I saw this headline my brain just skipped "least" and read it as the buggiest game to date.
Take the mask off, Todd, we know it's you!
Yeah I call bullshit. Plus the least buggy game release ever for Bethesda really isn't setting the bar high.
It only has 69,419 bugs this time instead of the usual 69,420+.
Well yeah, this game doesn't have buckets. So that's helped.
/c/nottheonion@lemmy.world is that way, Todd, please don't trip on the low bar you set while you leave
Starfield tastes like shit the least amount of any other Bethesda game!
This almost reads like an Onion headline.
Which means nothing and I will still wait for actual reviews after the release
And the unofficial patch that fixes the eorst of the bugs.
I truly don't understand people that buy something on release day and then complain about bugs, now, in 2023.
I look forward to getting it on sale a year or two after its release, but "least buggy" bethesda game still leaves a lot of rooms for bugs. It's like saying the "least buggy and most polished 3d sonic game yet!" . I still expect to sometimes clip through a loopdiloop and die.
As long as they're not game breaking, that's the best we can hope for. Or at least that they are entertaining bugs. With Skyrim, I admit after the patches I missed seeing flying mammoths and cows.
I remember encountering those giants outside whiterun on launch and having one yet me practically to dawnstar. It was hilarious and I wasn't mad at all.
One of my followers got giant hammered and sent to space. My only reaction was "My stuff".
My precious eidar cheese wheels!
I want an ant to somehow launch a planet into my spaceship
Can't tell if this is damning with faint praise, or just an incredible self own
I still couldn't limbo under the bar that sets. The bugs in Bethesda games are usually not game-breaking (in my experience), but they are legion.
They are usually fund-inducing bugs which are the best kind of bugs.
That is really not a high bar to cross, though.
It just works!
I don't know, man. The eyes on the lady in the thumbnail pic look like they about to pop out and do all sorts of crazy shit.
Actually really unethical journalism to do that shit and not even add a disclaimer. And even if they added a disclaimer it should not not be the image that shows alongside the article in a feed.
"and the award for the tallest dwarf goes to...."
But does it have 16x the textures?
theres no way bethesda could make a game that was as buggy as new vegas was at launch (and still is to this day)
Bethesda didn't make new vegas though. That was Obsidian.
exactly, bethesda isnt as good as obsidian at making buggy games 😂 though it was with fo3s engine and its assets
For context, Bethesda provided minimal support to Obsidian and gave them an absolutely absurdly short development time frame to make the game in. I think it was only a year.
The bugginess isn't all their fault. The game director even released a free mod or two after the game released to do some rebalancing and add a survival mode to it.
it was 100% obsidians fault. they agreed to the time, and they yet again were way too ambitious, like with kotor 2. its just who obsidian is, bad time management and bad ambition management. they do make great games but those are 2 real flaws they have
At least they no have MS money behind them so they can go that last mile and tidy things up now. Much like Bethesda here too, under Zenimax Starfield would have been out last year with all those bugs and issues still in place.
The audacity to insult that studio after they made digital gold within a year when shit like Redfall exists.
but its buggy which therefore means its bad right?
I think they definitely could, and have. Super buggy games are kind of their thing, it didnt stop with new vegas.
But I dont think it will hurt sales. Long as it isnt crashing the game, people have been waiting for a bethesda rpg like this for ages. Even if npc heads do rotate like propellors people will buy this thing.
We'll need to wait for the release. Before launch cyberpunk was also getting good reviews ;)
Honestly this is what pissed me off about the reaction to cyberpunk bugs. I remember how the fallout games were at launch. And I think even now trying to play new Vegas on Xbox (360 I think?) Has an issue if your save file gets too big where the save will corrupt.
CDPR definitely over promised. But every business does. They probably should've not released on last gen consoles at all, but that is tricky as fuck. I mean when they started to dev cp2077, I doubt Sony and MS even had dev units for next gen. Probably should've delayed last gen release only, made a transparent explanation and apology, and did what they ended up doing after release. But I had a low mid tier PC that played it at a solid 60 fps without major issue at launch. And it was exactly what I had hoped.
I'll probably also really like starfield, warts and all, when it drops. These are just my type of game.
People defending CDPR when they completely lied about the product aha, consumers be crazy these days.
To be honest, half the stuff people claim they lied about was always entirely speculation hype that never had any backing.
Otherwise, for some people the game worked just fine. For others the game was nearly or entirely unplayable, and everything in between. Cdpr certainly lied and should have delayed their game's release, probably upwards of a couple years, but the situation is rarely portrayed accurately.
I guess we just imagined their trailers and dev interviews then aha
I'm not saying they didn't lie, there are many of features which were at best skeletons of the features that were expected. But I'm just saying a lot of the hype around the game was so out of control you had people on the sub reddit talking about how cool the car customization will be, or how they can't wait to play, what would've amounted to essentially, gtav but with arasaka. Talking any l about features which actively were never even slightly implied to exist.
People get way too excited for any game, should always expect a pile of shit these days and just be pleasantly surprised instead. People are die hard fans of games like CP2077 before they even release, it's not good.
But expectations don't come from nowhere, a lot of the city stuff they were selling was like GTA, but the AI didn't even release at a 2004 San Andreas level, it's still not as good as GTA AI and that's just people walking/driving around convincingly. GTA V itself was 7 years old when CP2077 released, it's not surprising people were expecting a simulation of the world to be at least as good as that. I think their scope was too big, there was probs a lot of mismanagement behind the scenes. I don't know how they spent 8 years on it and it still turned out like it did, I guess we will never know what happened. The story is the only saving grace, they should have just delayed it and tried to make it a more linear story game and just abandon any RPG-esque/open world elements that were left.
Being critical of games is good, especially ones that completely shit the bed, defending it just leads to more of that in the future. I love BG3 for example, but it has it's fair share of issues that I can point out every time I play it. Why would I not want better products? Why settle for less? There's too much submissive consumerism these days.
I played through the whole game last year and while I had fun, you can definitely tell the scope is too big. There's lots to do but when you do things, there isn't much depth. Systems that you think should be in place just aren't there. The game also has a lot of features that align with open world action games of the era like Ghost of Tsushima or Horizon Forbidden West. There's stealth, there's a crafting system, there's collectibles and fetch quests. But there's few features that align with most other role playing games. You cant get a bite to eat at nearly any restaurant. You can't have a conversation with an NPC that isn't one of the dozen that's relevant to the story. (My favorite activity in fallout is to chat with random characters about random things.) Dialogue trees are shockingly stiff and inconsequential. Most missions have choices but it boils down to "X character is alive instead of unconscious."
There's a lot more I could go into but in general it just came across like it was almost unfinished. The only mission I played that felt like a true RPG mission instead of a stealth game or a shooter was the Flathead mission, so it makes sense that's the mission they relentlessly previewed back in 2019.
Agreed. The biggest issue for me, as a PC gamer who expected bugs at launch, was really that it's a stealth/action game that was marketed as an RPG even though it has precious few consequential choices or playstyle options.
For sure. And who knows, much of that could be guerrilla marketing to stoke the hype.
Expecting cp2077 to be anything like GTA is just silly. They are entirely different games.
And the RPG elements are fine, it's already very linear, and plays like you're the focus character of a cyberpunk campaign. They did just fine on that front, so I don't really understand your critique there.
CDPR fucked up big time, but they did spend another couple of years fixing a lot of shit and adding content.
Also, Cyperpunk: Edgerunner was pretty dope.
I bought the fallout games at launch. I bought Cyberpunk months after launch when I found it on clearance. Cyberpunk was still far less playable for me than the fallout games were at launch.
This was due to:
Additionally, CP2077 had all the same bugs in Fallout/Elder Scrolls releases.
I usually power through buggy RPG releases, but I waited to give CP a couple more patches before actually trying to play through it.
Even if it is true, the bar is embedded somewhere on Earth's inner core.
To be fair, Bethesda games are a fucking train wreck at launch so this is like an article saying this is the dryest water they've ever made.
Careful the devil doesn't trip over that bar.
That's a pretty low bar to cross.
You know, I don't remember Morrowind actually being that bad, but I played on the GotY version so maybe they actually fixed their shit in those days.
The GotY version of Morrowind feels less buggy than the original release. For example, some older PC versions frequently crashed because of some pointer error in the UI. The game detected this and created crash-recovery savegames like what MS Office does for your documents.
If the best praise their PR people have to put forward is that it's not quite as horrifically buggy as previous Bethesda games, that's... not a great sign; Microsoft paid $7.5B for ZeniMax in large part so that this specific game would be an Xbox exclusive, if it's not the level of masterpiece that gets people to buy Xboxes just to run it then it'll be one of their biggest fails since Clippy.
Eh, I'd say that's pretty good in context. Bethesda has, for the most part, put out very successful games. Bugs and Bethesda are pretty synonymous though, and that this is on the less buggy side is something to quell hot takes of "Bugfield" before people even touch it. And I think the embargo restricts deeper comments on the game, so these may he the only comments we get for a few more days.
How far did they dig to find that bar?
"least buggiest"? Hmm, I know what "least buggy" would mean, not sure how to parse this one. On the bottom end of the buggiest bunch?
The gamiest of games
I know all the best words, okay, people are saying that I know the most beautiful words, okay, no one knows more about words than I do, big beautiful words, the WORDIST even.
Last time I saw this headline my brain just skipped "least" and read it as the buggiest game to date.
Take the mask off, Todd, we know it's you!
Yeah I call bullshit. Plus the least buggy game release ever for Bethesda really isn't setting the bar high.
It only has 69,419 bugs this time instead of the usual 69,420+.
Well yeah, this game doesn't have buckets. So that's helped.
/c/nottheonion@lemmy.world is that way, Todd, please don't trip on the low bar you set while you leave
Starfield tastes like shit the least amount of any other Bethesda game!
This almost reads like an Onion headline.
Which means nothing and I will still wait for actual reviews after the release
And the unofficial patch that fixes the eorst of the bugs.
I truly don't understand people that buy something on release day and then complain about bugs, now, in 2023.
I look forward to getting it on sale a year or two after its release, but "least buggy" bethesda game still leaves a lot of rooms for bugs. It's like saying the "least buggy and most polished 3d sonic game yet!" . I still expect to sometimes clip through a loopdiloop and die.
As long as they're not game breaking, that's the best we can hope for. Or at least that they are entertaining bugs. With Skyrim, I admit after the patches I missed seeing flying mammoths and cows.
I remember encountering those giants outside whiterun on launch and having one yet me practically to dawnstar. It was hilarious and I wasn't mad at all.
One of my followers got giant hammered and sent to space. My only reaction was "My stuff".
My precious eidar cheese wheels!
I want an ant to somehow launch a planet into my spaceship
Can't tell if this is damning with faint praise, or just an incredible self own
I still couldn't limbo under the bar that sets. The bugs in Bethesda games are usually not game-breaking (in my experience), but they are legion.
They are usually fund-inducing bugs which are the best kind of bugs.
That is really not a high bar to cross, though.
It just works!
I don't know, man. The eyes on the lady in the thumbnail pic look like they about to pop out and do all sorts of crazy shit.
It is photoshopped. The original.
Actually really unethical journalism to do that shit and not even add a disclaimer. And even if they added a disclaimer it should not not be the image that shows alongside the article in a feed.
"and the award for the tallest dwarf goes to...."
But does it have 16x the textures?
theres no way bethesda could make a game that was as buggy as new vegas was at launch (and still is to this day)
Bethesda didn't make new vegas though. That was Obsidian.
exactly, bethesda isnt as good as obsidian at making buggy games 😂 though it was with fo3s engine and its assets
For context, Bethesda provided minimal support to Obsidian and gave them an absolutely absurdly short development time frame to make the game in. I think it was only a year.
The bugginess isn't all their fault. The game director even released a free mod or two after the game released to do some rebalancing and add a survival mode to it.
it was 100% obsidians fault. they agreed to the time, and they yet again were way too ambitious, like with kotor 2. its just who obsidian is, bad time management and bad ambition management. they do make great games but those are 2 real flaws they have
At least they no have MS money behind them so they can go that last mile and tidy things up now. Much like Bethesda here too, under Zenimax Starfield would have been out last year with all those bugs and issues still in place.
The audacity to insult that studio after they made digital gold within a year when shit like Redfall exists.
but its buggy which therefore means its bad right?
I think they definitely could, and have. Super buggy games are kind of their thing, it didnt stop with new vegas.
But I dont think it will hurt sales. Long as it isnt crashing the game, people have been waiting for a bethesda rpg like this for ages. Even if npc heads do rotate like propellors people will buy this thing.
That's not saying much
When sky's the limit, that's not really reassuring.
Such a great article full of absolutely nothing.
My brain auto-corrected the word "least" out of it and I just thought that was to be expected.
new tesla model least likely to spontaneously catch fire and explode to date, say sources
Let's hope it's as good as they're hyping it up to be. Until next week!
I will wait till the videogamedonkey breaks the game then I will decide
That thumbnail is something else🤣
mfw a Bethesda game doesn't launch with thousands of handcrafted bugs
That woman's eyes are like from anime.