Hate to be that person but no headphone jack for a sustainable phone?
Environmentally friendly and fairly sourced, except for the consumable blue tooth earbuds we will sell you as a consumable to push our profits while creating e-waste.
Or the dongles you'll lose. It's the only reason I didn't buy the Fairphone 4 and will never get the next one. I don't understand how you can market sustainability and fixable stuff without the headphone jack.
am i seriously the only one that uses usb-c headphones?
why is everyone immediately jumping to bluetooth?
I know it's a crutch, but there's always a USB-C to 3.5mm converter. There are some versions sold that still keep the charging port.
Then give me 2 usb c ports on the phone.i can compromise with that
Exactly. I don't care if it's 3.5mm or usb-c, it's the quantity of ports that matters.
My phone came with usb-c earphones.
Is that not an acceptable compromise?
Works fine for me.
No, because I own earphones and cables and don't want to create more waste if I can help it. Plus, I may want to connect the audio out to an existing stereo system, and plug it in to charge at the same time.
I appreciate that more cables equals more waste and inconvenience. But your situation is more than likely not an issue for the majority. The options are out there. The arguments from some in here that a usbc to Aux is easy to lose is subjective. I've never lost mine, and it's been just fine whenever I've needed it.
If you want something to connect your phone to a stereo whilst retaining the ability to charge then there are adapters that have an auc outpit and usbc input that can work as well as systems, like one called wiim, that you connect to your wifi and aux into your stereo/speakers that can play music from most wifi enabled devices losslessly. Both of these options would be fairly futureproof as they would work with any new phone, stereo/speakers, or other device, regardless of which you upgrade.
I know that it's another thing to add on and costs kore money, but frankly, being angry about the lack of aux outputs on phones isn't going to change anything.
You can either complain and achieve nothing or adapt and make any phone you choose to buy work for you and your specific needs.
If the audio output on this phone is the only concern you have, then i think it's a small price to pay to support the many aspects of this phone that prevent explotation of workers and sustainability of materials etc.
That's only one concern I have for this phone. The biggest concern is value to cost ratio. I'm willing to pay a premium for replaceable parts and longer support, but not if the design is substandard and the components are not there.
There are headphones that use the USB port. Headphone jacks are kinda dead tech at this point.
Hard disagree, you might not use them, but they are critical in many settings.
Credit card reader, comfortable headsets, hooking up to other systems, audio without batteries, etc. There are a good number of people who still use headphones! (Including most people in South Asia....)
Credit card reader hooked into headphone jack is a dead tech too now that the rest of the world have moved on from mag stripe to chip and pin.
The rest of the world isn't America.
comfortable headsets, audio without batteries
These are both solved via USB headsets tho?
Downsides of usb-c headphones:
Bluetooth security risk surface, exposes your phone to more attacks.
Most/all phones have a single usb-c port. Charging and using headphones difficult
Usb-c port placement is awkwardly on bottom of phone while must headphone jacks are on top of the phone. Plugging in your headphones on the bottom of the phone with a dongle is awkward.
The entire process of using a usb-c dongle or using Bluetooth headphones makes the entire system more complicated. KISS (keep it simple). The more complexity there is that can go wrong, the worse the experience. If I'm taking a important conference call, I want my audio to just work.
Bluetooth audio is delayed compare to wired
Bluetooth Microphone standard is quite poor, the sound quality when talking on a group calls is bad compared to wired.
Not directly related: the whole point of removing the headphone jack was to sell airpods. First apple, then android, and even fair phone. Each time the jack is removed to push sales of the branded Bluetooth ear buds. It's a user hostile move.
The excuse may be to save money, Space, water rating, but the reason is increased sales.
I personally still use a pixel 5A which had a headphone jack only because it's the B tier phone for markets where people are less likely to also buy the airpods.
If you buy this phone, you're exclusively buying it for sustainability, so you're already accepting an inferior product.
There's no reason to cling to headphone jacks as if those are somehow a worthwhile technology.
I just outlined my use case, very concisely I thought. It may not be your use case. But please don't dismiss my use case because you don't use it yourself. Its only polite.
For dead tech they sure do sell a shit ton of dongles
You can still buy DVD players, which means people still buy DVD players, but that doesn't make it not dead tech
But how many though?
Idk hopefully not many. I'm not enthused by dead tech.
Iโve gone through 3 of these on my iphone, theyโre flimsy as hell
All headphones you plug in are.
Iโve never had a 3.5mm connector break on me. Those little lightning jacks though? You drop your phone once and itโs over. I canโt imagine USB C is any better
USBC is so much better though, never had one break on me ever.
Audio quality loss and latency are built into Bluetooth. Its only advantage is not having a wire.
I'm not talking about Bluetooth at all tho
Oh, you mean USB headphones? TBH, way overly complex compared to analog with (albeit negligible) audio quality loss, which still works with legacy tech going back decades. It's like arguing a bicycle is obsolete because motorcycles exist.
If bicycles and motorcycles competed for the exact same role, with an opportunity cost allowing only one, how would bicycles not be obsolete?
What a dumb analogy.
I didn't choose the analogy.
You did, because you're assuming that you can only choose one or the other. Even though it's been demonstrated that the headphone jack does not require much space, can even be added to phones that don't have it (check out Strange Parts on yt) and does not have any drawbacks.
That opportunity cost is not a thing.
If you can add it to a phone that doesn't have it already, I'm not sure what the problem is, in your view.
That it should be there in the first place and that the reassons given for not including it are completely false.
At this point I'm not sure if you're trolling or just plain dumb. Either way, I'm not wasting any more of my time. Bye.
I appreciate it.
Dude. The only difference between a normal headphone with a 3.5mm jack and a "usb" headphone is that the latter needs to have its own dac/amp. Guess what? YOUR PHONE ALREADY HAS THAT. Usb headphones are more complex, more expensive and not guaranteed to work indefinitely.
Removing the jack makes 0 sense.
In my experience, 0 headphones are guaranteed to work indefinitely, and I've been using headphones jacks since like '87
The only problem I have ever had with headphones are pad/eartip degradation and cable issues. It's rare for the driver to fail.
That's in stark contrast to battery powered headphones, given thart batteries will 100% fail given a few years and they're (in most cases) not user replaceable.
At the bottom of your phone (probably? Idk like iPhones and shit), you have a USB-C (or some letter) port. There are headphones that plug in there.
They are no more battery powered than your phone.
Kind of shocked this isn't well known, as this is a tech forum.
Ok, then you're talking only about usb headphones.
If you have a dongle and it breaks, good luck fixing the cable. God forbid the dac is integrated to the headphone itself. Also, if the dac fails you're also sol. So yeah, I wouldn't call having a more expensive set up that's also more likely to fail and doesn't have any added benefits a good alternative.
This is all also true about traditional headphones jacks, which have failed quite often for me over the decades
My favorite headphones of all time failed in this way, and requires I have the jack in exactly the right spot/depth
Did you forget to mention that fixing a headphone jack costs a few bucks and can be done by pretty much anyone with a soldering iron?
No, because in practice that isn't a thing that regularly happens, and as the tech continues to die out it will be less and less possible.
Most people do not own and cannot use a soldering iron.
With no headphone jack thats gonna be a no for me dawg. How can they promote sustainability and then design a product that is going to be unusable in 5 years max. That's just the reality of all wireless headphones. The battery will fail to hold charge and they will become useless. Not the truth for wired headphones. Goodwired headphones will last as long as you're able to take care of them usually
Edit: if anyone could give me one good real reason to remove the headphone jack? It's not about the alternatives it's why remove it in the first place? And the space saving aspect of it has long been debunked.
I switched to using wireless headphones a good decade ago and I've never had a set die die to the battery going.
I've had plenty of wired headphones die bectthr cable became frayed or loose though.
I am still surprised at the lack of a headphone jack in the Fairphone, but I don't agree that wireless devices are somehow more prone to becoming e-waste.
How are they not going to become e-waste? At some point the battery will die. And more people will just throw those out then they will recycle them. The Bluetooth codec on the set will get outdated. I have old wireless Bluetooth speakers that are completely "useless" now because of the battery and old Bluetooth codec which doesn't work with modern phones. But damn if I still can't plug into their headphones Jack and use them while they're powered from the wall. If you look up the average lifespan of wireless earbuds you get answers anywhere from 1 to 5 years lol. I have a pair of headphones from the 90's that work great. I have another pair older than me.
Just because regular headphones don't have as much electronics in them doesn't mean they don't contribute to e-waste as well. That's what I am driving at, cheap headphones will die quickly and most people don't bother repairing them. The same will happen to cheap wireless headphones. However, good quality ones will last and an often misses benefit of wireless headphones is that there's a lot less wear on them.
The comments about the battery eventually dying may well be correct, but honestly the batteries last plenty long. It's not like they stop working, they just lose capacity over time. All I'm saying is that the battery "dying" is not the big contributor to e-waste that it's purported to be.
The answer to this problem is better wireless headphones
Because what lithium ion battery last forever? They're well degraded after a few years.
So stop using electronics? Weโre talking about a phone with its own batteries. I understand your point but Fairphone canโt solve every sustainability and e-waste problem with a single device. Not buying this phone, assuming you buy a different, less sustainable phone, is a net negative.
The phone has a removable battery. Not one that you need to break the device apart and unsolder everything to get to it, like almost all headphones.
Again, this is an argument for better headphones.
Well tell that to Fairphone, they're only selling shitty e-waste ones instead of providing a headphone jack.
But do let me know who is making in-ear earphones with a removable battery. Not massive over the head cows. Portable earphones.
For those buy a dongle. This is not a reason to force a headphone jack on every phone. If it were a modular option, sure who cares. But โevery phone needs a jack so some people donโt have to use alternativesโ isnโt a good point
Right, so when we're saying that it was wrong of the company that sells their products on the promise of sustainability and compatibility, to remove their headphones jack and sell shitty ewaste earbuds instead, we're totally saying that every phone in the world needs a headphone jack.
Also funny how quickly we went from "you can get headphones with AAA batteries" to "use a dongle".
If only there was some simple solution that has worked for decades, has zero downsides and costs almost nothing to implement. If only!
You moved the goal posts. The original complaint was about wireless headphones. Now itโs about wired ear buds. If you dig hard enough you can be mad about anything, but that doesnโt mean itโs important.
They could create less e-waste by including a headphone jack and not removing it cause they wanna sell their own wireless headphones. Its a simple money move. And I don't wanna support a company like that even if in theory their message is just.
Itโs also in keeping with the entire industry. โI donโt want to use a USB-C dongleโ isnโt a principled stance
I've made plenty of other good points for why the headphone jack should be still included.
So buy a DAC with mini jack adapter and call it a day then?
Oh joy something else i need in my pocket.
You created the need, not the manufacturer, not me, not your mamma YOU DID. And you can still get phones with a headphone jack your just pissy every phone doesn't come with one.
Get the fuck over yourself.
The manufacturer absolutely created the need to have a dongle by removing the headphone jack. Give me one good reason and a good reason to remove it?
The battery will fail to hold charge and they will become useless. Not the truth for wired headphones.
I don't know how you use your headphones, but in my case I switched to wireless because every single pair of wired headphones I had would break. Usually the cable, earbuds because they were in my pocket, and the overhead ones I'd drive over with my office chair.
Switched to wireless a couple years ago, no issues since then.
It's cuz you don't put them in a protective case every time like you do with wireless earbuds. If you took the same care to wrap them up and properly protect them every single time before you put them away which takes like three more seconds than wireless earbuds they would last just as long.
It's not the same care though. Wireless earbuds come with a box. For regular ones, I'd have to make a suitable box, and also carefully roll the cables every time.
A lot of wired earbuds especially if you're willing to spend the kind of money you would spend on wireless earbuds come with very nice carrying cases. For cheapos there's really cheap like silicone wraps that are super easy to use. It's a little piece of silicone with a few little cutouts that makes wrapping the headphones really easy and keeps them relatively protected and tangle free. I put headphones on it every day for years and they've kept just as well as the ones with the fancy carry cases. In any case you can get much better sounding wired headphones plus the cheap carrying case for cheaper than any just as good wireless headset out there . And even if you're not looking for a deal out of wired headphones. There is always a better fidelity over the microphone and sound quality than most wireless earbuds in my experience. Especially if you're spending the same kind of money you are on wireless earbuds. And the only inconvenience comes at the lack of a headphone port. Putting them away is not this hassle people make it to be. There is a convenience of seconds with wireless earbuds.
Moondrop Aria. $70/80, comes with a carrying case + detachable cable.
If all of your wired iems broke, you either broke them yourself or were buying very crappy iems.
Really? My wired headphones have lasted 10+ years. My oldest bluetooth headset lasted 5.
Wired Earbuds or Headphones? Most wired earbuds are crap, so it makes sense to use Bluetooth.
Wired Headphones should not break. I don't want to argue with your experiences, but I have never seen headphones break. I used a pair for seven years, and only stopped using it wasn't worth it to buy new pads (the headphones cost $20, pads $10).
I've had plenty of cables on wired headphones die, and if the headphones don't have removable cables, that's it for them (unless you can solder on new cables, but you could also argue that you can replace the battery of wireless headphones). I've had the cable of my Sennheisers break like 3 times so far and I've only had the headphones for a couple of years, luckily they can be replaced easily
I've gone through many pairs of headphones too, I've worked from home for years and had a long-distance relationship in a time before smartphones (and before cheap wireless headphones) so Skype+headphones was the solution. Both driving over them with an office chair and accidentally pulling them were real dangers and caused real damage.
Now I just don't use them anymore, since I have meetings on a company laptop, and the relationship is much closer.
Just leave one of these on your headphones and you'll never know the difference.
I don't want to. And I don't want to carry one around with me everywhere. I use several different types of wired headphones. Plus the convenience of being able to plug into basically any sound system is unmatched. Still plenty of cars that just use aux cords. Plenty of speaker systems that are easier to connect to with a headphone cord and sound better.
And my final point is there is no practical reason to remove it it is just as easy to waterproof and it does not take up that much space.
Yeah. I actually went from usb c only phone to one with a headphone jack again, and I've decided I'm not even considering devices without a headphone jack. The dongles suck from either a usability perspective or a software one, and they just add another point of failure rather than just using a very simple aux jack. I get why a lot of manufacturers stopped supporting them (it costs some money, and the dongle make them some), but it's still very, very dumb.
This is a case though where your other sound systems you guys are also trying to plug into are outdated. Because your phone is not among your outdated productsl, doesn't mean it's a manufacturers' fault. They are simply catering to the market.
Newer head units (stand alone audio sources) have Bluetooth and other connectivity features plus a jack anyways.
So because you're using outdated shit it's the phones fault? Let me ask you, so you think more devices in the future will have jacks or less? Answer: less. The sooner you change your equipment the less heartache you'll have.
Bluetooth gets outdated. A headphone jack does not. Bluetooth is constantly updating its codec so are phones. I have wireless speakers from 5 years ago that refuse to work because the Bluetooth version is too old.
I use a Bluetooth dac or just Bluetooth headphones most of the time. But occasionally, I have issues with battery life or Bluetooth and just want to use a headphone jack (a technology that is simple in part because it has been around for over a century in various iterations), and not having one is incredibly frustrating from a usability standpoint. I'm not projecting my issue with "using outdated shit, " I'm stating that I actually tried to move on, and when I went back (temporarily at first) the increase in usability was frankly notable.
Yeah man and they said that with the horse and buggy as well which had been around for thousands of years, and DVD and laser disk, and mp3's and jet flight.
Yeah, there's still a niche if you're wanting to "win" your argument. But you may as well shout at the wall.
Manufacturers don't care about your niche use cases especially since arguably better alternatives have come about.
It's not. There's no reason why headphone jacks would be outdated. They carry an analog signal to drive the headphones. With a dongle, you're just converting that signal from USB-C. USB-C headphones carry the exact same signal and bluetooth is garbage for audio quality. 3.55mm TRS is the de facto standard for headphones in the consumer market. It really doesn't get any simpler or cheaper.
I'm with you. Guess what sometimes I have a call and my Bluetooth buds are charging or not in the same room. Guess what I have connected to my computer? A headset. Guess what isn't easily plugged into my phone! This headset! I've had dongles die on me too man.
I hate that all phones have removed them. Screw Apple for this trend. I wish Apple had the balls and removed them from the laptops too. Would have loved to see that backlash.
Based on the responses people are too ignorant for that to ever happen.
I rather enjoy all the people telling you that your use case is invalid because of inferior compromised solutions available.
There are a bunch of people who express a strong preference for a feature, don't invalidate peoples requirements.
Doesn't matter if that feature is something you use personally or not.
What this does indicate is there is demand in the market for a GrapheneOS/CalyxOS phone with a headphone jack. This is why I'm running a Pixel 5a still!
I too still have pixel 5a. Glad somebody gets that every "solution" has been vastly inferior to just a headphone jack
I use bluetooth headset when i'm at home to watch videos, but if i take a call, i plug in my wired headphones to get reliability and clarity. When i go out into the city I only have a pair of wired headphones in my man purse.
I'm multimodal and I like it!
Nothing is worse then being on a group chat and somebody is fighting their bluetooth with extra delays or scratchy audio... I dont want to be that guy
USB DACs are quite small now. I don't mind having to plug mine into my phone to use wired headphones.
I refuse to buy a phone without a headphone jack but in my experience wired earbuds last about 9 months while my cheap JBL 110bt bluetooth buds are still going strong after more than 5 years of almost daily use. The battery still lasts about 7 hours.
Stop buying crappy earbuds then. I have IEMs and headphones several decades old that still work just fine.
Yeah, if you use earbuds, Bluetooth is so much better. I don't know why wired earbuds are so garbage, but I had two die in three years. My headphones still work after seven, but the pads are worn off, so I stopped using them
Man I'm super interested in this hardware, if GrapheneOS supported FP it would be a no brainer for me.
I believe the reason they don't is because:
They have a small team. It is not worth it at this point to support more devices.
The Pixel series is considerably more secure, and that is the area they specialize in.
I'm honestly surprised GOS hasn't supported the FP yet. CalyxOS has for about a year or so now, and I imagine they'll support the FP 5 too.
Graphene developers might support it, its their kind of crazy, as long as the hardware security updates keep getting released for long enough to make it worth while (2028 which yeah... why not).
The security updates I'm guessing are probably good enough. But possibly a bigger issue is this phone not being avalible in the US, supposing the Graphene Devs are there too (no clue where they are, just guessing).
2028 Baseband support ... so 5 ish years of full support. Which is pretty good, why not just say that?
I had to scroll way too long (on fairphone.com's FP5 page) to find the data sheet. It feels like they're trying to distract from something. Maybe no easy LineageOS support - maybe shitty battery life.
My FP1 is still in perfect working order, lasting 2 weeks in standby on the original battery, but obviously doesn't support LTE or get SW updates - but the FP2 is dead within 24-48 hours on standby :/ And battery drains within 20 minutes watching youtube
The FP2 battery dying quickly might be explained by Snapdragon's non ideal SOCs around that time period, it was also a problem on the Galaxy S5 that I put up with firsthand.
The SOCs had the performance, but they ran hot and drank the battery as if there was an electricity drought.
I don't think Android 9(?) is going to be particularly kind to that device either...
The SOCs had the performance, but they ran hot and drank the battery as if there was an electricity drought.
Indeed, this seems to be the issue - everytime I use the browser, I can feel the phone running hot as the battery drains. Anyways, my FP2 is beyond end of life, even the file transfer over USB stopped working recently, I can barely wiggle the charger cable to the point where it's still charging.
I'd buy a new one, but sadly they keep getting bigger, and I hate huge phones that ruin my pant pockets, plus are uncomfortable to carry in them.
So the specs seem pretty good. Some are equivalent to the Pixel 7, some a little less, some a bit better like the selfie camera. But the pixel is quite a bit cheaper, nearly $200 retail. I wonder if they're considering making a cheaper version equivalent to the Pixel a series.
I wonder if they're considering making a cheaper version equivalent to the Pixel a series
I doubt it. Every different iteration of the phone means producing less pieces, which will inevitably drive the cost up. I doubt Fairphone can afford it.
I think due to the custom designs involved in making it modular / repairable, combined with the niche appeal, itโs expected that these devices will be produced in low volumes and therefore will always cost more than the equivalent Pixel, due to missing out on economies of scale.
Sustainability has a price. You're indirectly paying that price for the Pixel too btw, it's just not on the bill.
Will be interesting to see a comparison of the fp4 and the pf5!
Wait, people are scared of industrial components? Theyโre usually the most reliable
Iirc, a lot of them also have efficiency as a secondary priority, since whatever the chip is running will always be plugged in.
Secondary, yes, but the push to claim โmuh production line is more greenโ has probably improved that too.
Embedded, low power stuff is quite common.
Then again Iโm no expert, they could very well still be power hogs
Yeah, but it usually doesn't downclock as aggressively, right? Or is that entirely dependent on the CPU scheduler?
The scheduler canโt do anything if the hardware isnโt designed to. If the cpu canโt downclock when idle, it wonโt, regardless of software
Now if only I could buy it.
Specs aren't too bad, doesn't sound like a bad mig range phone and I might actually consider this if it wasn't that they don't sell it here ๐
Seems really awesome and promising however I'm not really trying to have an outdated computer (read: phone) at 600 euro. Not even available in north America right now.
I like what they're trying to do, however 10 years is an eternity in the tech world and if this company doesn't sell enough phones - likely enough of this phone, then whose to say this company will even be around in 10 years, much less have a dev team competent enough to take over support where Qualcomm left off?
This is one of those huge promises that manufacturers make, with little to no evidence of being able to back it up.
Lol, they were funded 10 years ago snd when fairephone one came out people were already saying what you're saying.
There are customers for this kind of phones and the idea to not throw away perfectly working electronics.
But customers accepted to not be able to replace their batteries or being sold phone full of glue.
Outdated hardware isn't really as important on a phone than it is as a PC. Unless you are gaming on your phone, phone hardware is plenty powerful enough these days for the grand majority of tasks.
The software updates are the biggest concern and they intend to do 10 years of updates. That is more than long enough for this device before it becomes obsolete.
I'm running a nearly 10 year old laptop and its fine too.
And it will only get better as technology starts to plateau. They will stay relevant for longer.
as technology starts to plateau
Not sure we'll ever hit that point tbh.
Fair, but I meant more along the lines of what the everyday user will need. After a certain point, what more do you really need on a phone or standard PC? Sure, servers and supercomputers can always take more, but for the average consumer is it really that useful?
Yeah that I def agree with.
Its only 2028 for hardware security updates anyway, so don't think about the 10 years. You could always run any old phone with lineageos on it and get "software updates" from lineage for the same experience.
Anyone with an older model know if thereโs been a way to add wireless (qi) charging?
There are such pads that plug in via the usb and can be hidden under a case, if you had no other option.
I've used it for my android mp3 player.
Ah, another post on a great new addition to the Fairphone lineup, another post where the top comments are complaining about because there is no headphone jack, they won't consider it.
Y'all seriously have your priorities messed up if that's what keeps you from supporting Fairphone. If having a device with a headphone jack is that important to you, invest in a dedicated audio player. You can get some with high quality DAC's and more. But seriously, y'all need to cope about the Fairphone not having a single feature you want being a total deal breaker. That's honestly petty...
How about, fuck no.
People have a right to demand a very simple feature that costs almost nothing and is incredibly useful. If that's a major requirement, then who the hell are you to say they can't depend it?
For a phone who's ethos is sustainability buying a 2nd device just for music is antithetical. When my FP3 eventually goes out of support I'll have to look elsewhere.
I've bought 2 wireless Samsung earbuds pros because 1 stopped working. The second one also stopped working so I bought 10 dollar wired earbuds and haven't had an issue. I wasted like 250 dollars before finding a 10 dollar solution.
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This seems to kill my USB C Port, as the dongle is attached while I move around and I've already destroyed 2 USB C DACs and 1 phone port.
I have switched to Bluetooth because of that, but a headphone jack would be really nice, because I do have some custom in-ears and some nice over-ears around, which I now never use...
Sounda great, but like all previous Fairphones there's no reason for the vast majority of the people on Earth to be interested in this because it's only available in Europe.
Even if I do import it here in AU; I don't get a real warranty, I pay huge important taxes (or a markup to a reseller), and I have to go through just as much trouble for any replacement parts I may need.
You realize you are on a social media platform primarily funded by the European Union right?
Jokes aside, it's not like the same argument ever comes up if the new is about US internal laws about net neutrality or their ISPs having to tell customers what they bill.
What argument? It's a fact that I can't purchase this phone, nor can most people on the planet.
Net neutrality and US ISP billing shenanigans don't imact me, nor do they impact the rest of the planet.
What does that have to do with a phone that's only sold in Europe?
Hate to be that person but no headphone jack for a sustainable phone?
Environmentally friendly and fairly sourced, except for the consumable blue tooth earbuds we will sell you as a consumable to push our profits while creating e-waste.
Or the dongles you'll lose. It's the only reason I didn't buy the Fairphone 4 and will never get the next one. I don't understand how you can market sustainability and fixable stuff without the headphone jack.
am i seriously the only one that uses usb-c headphones? why is everyone immediately jumping to bluetooth?
I know it's a crutch, but there's always a USB-C to 3.5mm converter. There are some versions sold that still keep the charging port.
Then give me 2 usb c ports on the phone.i can compromise with that
Exactly. I don't care if it's 3.5mm or usb-c, it's the quantity of ports that matters.
My phone came with usb-c earphones.
Is that not an acceptable compromise?
Works fine for me.
No, because I own earphones and cables and don't want to create more waste if I can help it. Plus, I may want to connect the audio out to an existing stereo system, and plug it in to charge at the same time.
I appreciate that more cables equals more waste and inconvenience. But your situation is more than likely not an issue for the majority. The options are out there. The arguments from some in here that a usbc to Aux is easy to lose is subjective. I've never lost mine, and it's been just fine whenever I've needed it.
If you want something to connect your phone to a stereo whilst retaining the ability to charge then there are adapters that have an auc outpit and usbc input that can work as well as systems, like one called wiim, that you connect to your wifi and aux into your stereo/speakers that can play music from most wifi enabled devices losslessly. Both of these options would be fairly futureproof as they would work with any new phone, stereo/speakers, or other device, regardless of which you upgrade.
I know that it's another thing to add on and costs kore money, but frankly, being angry about the lack of aux outputs on phones isn't going to change anything.
You can either complain and achieve nothing or adapt and make any phone you choose to buy work for you and your specific needs.
If the audio output on this phone is the only concern you have, then i think it's a small price to pay to support the many aspects of this phone that prevent explotation of workers and sustainability of materials etc.
That's only one concern I have for this phone. The biggest concern is value to cost ratio. I'm willing to pay a premium for replaceable parts and longer support, but not if the design is substandard and the components are not there.
There are headphones that use the USB port. Headphone jacks are kinda dead tech at this point.
Hard disagree, you might not use them, but they are critical in many settings.
Credit card reader, comfortable headsets, hooking up to other systems, audio without batteries, etc. There are a good number of people who still use headphones! (Including most people in South Asia....)
Credit card reader hooked into headphone jack is a dead tech too now that the rest of the world have moved on from mag stripe to chip and pin.
The rest of the world isn't America.
These are both solved via USB headsets tho?
Downsides of usb-c headphones:
Bluetooth security risk surface, exposes your phone to more attacks.
Most/all phones have a single usb-c port. Charging and using headphones difficult
Usb-c port placement is awkwardly on bottom of phone while must headphone jacks are on top of the phone. Plugging in your headphones on the bottom of the phone with a dongle is awkward.
The entire process of using a usb-c dongle or using Bluetooth headphones makes the entire system more complicated. KISS (keep it simple). The more complexity there is that can go wrong, the worse the experience. If I'm taking a important conference call, I want my audio to just work.
Bluetooth audio is delayed compare to wired
Bluetooth Microphone standard is quite poor, the sound quality when talking on a group calls is bad compared to wired.
Not directly related: the whole point of removing the headphone jack was to sell airpods. First apple, then android, and even fair phone. Each time the jack is removed to push sales of the branded Bluetooth ear buds. It's a user hostile move.
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-airpods-success
The excuse may be to save money, Space, water rating, but the reason is increased sales.
I personally still use a pixel 5A which had a headphone jack only because it's the B tier phone for markets where people are less likely to also buy the airpods.
If you buy this phone, you're exclusively buying it for sustainability, so you're already accepting an inferior product.
There's no reason to cling to headphone jacks as if those are somehow a worthwhile technology.
I just outlined my use case, very concisely I thought. It may not be your use case. But please don't dismiss my use case because you don't use it yourself. Its only polite.
For dead tech they sure do sell a shit ton of dongles
You can still buy DVD players, which means people still buy DVD players, but that doesn't make it not dead tech
But how many though?
Idk hopefully not many. I'm not enthused by dead tech.
Iโve gone through 3 of these on my iphone, theyโre flimsy as hell
All headphones you plug in are.
Iโve never had a 3.5mm connector break on me. Those little lightning jacks though? You drop your phone once and itโs over. I canโt imagine USB C is any better
USBC is so much better though, never had one break on me ever.
Audio quality loss and latency are built into Bluetooth. Its only advantage is not having a wire.
I'm not talking about Bluetooth at all tho
Oh, you mean USB headphones? TBH, way overly complex compared to analog with (albeit negligible) audio quality loss, which still works with legacy tech going back decades. It's like arguing a bicycle is obsolete because motorcycles exist.
If bicycles and motorcycles competed for the exact same role, with an opportunity cost allowing only one, how would bicycles not be obsolete?
What a dumb analogy.
I didn't choose the analogy.
You did, because you're assuming that you can only choose one or the other. Even though it's been demonstrated that the headphone jack does not require much space, can even be added to phones that don't have it (check out Strange Parts on yt) and does not have any drawbacks.
That opportunity cost is not a thing.
If you can add it to a phone that doesn't have it already, I'm not sure what the problem is, in your view.
That it should be there in the first place and that the reassons given for not including it are completely false.
At this point I'm not sure if you're trolling or just plain dumb. Either way, I'm not wasting any more of my time. Bye.
I appreciate it.
Dude. The only difference between a normal headphone with a 3.5mm jack and a "usb" headphone is that the latter needs to have its own dac/amp. Guess what? YOUR PHONE ALREADY HAS THAT. Usb headphones are more complex, more expensive and not guaranteed to work indefinitely.
Removing the jack makes 0 sense.
In my experience, 0 headphones are guaranteed to work indefinitely, and I've been using headphones jacks since like '87
The only problem I have ever had with headphones are pad/eartip degradation and cable issues. It's rare for the driver to fail.
That's in stark contrast to battery powered headphones, given thart batteries will 100% fail given a few years and they're (in most cases) not user replaceable.
At the bottom of your phone (probably? Idk like iPhones and shit), you have a USB-C (or some letter) port. There are headphones that plug in there.
They are no more battery powered than your phone.
Kind of shocked this isn't well known, as this is a tech forum.
Ok, then you're talking only about usb headphones.
If you have a dongle and it breaks, good luck fixing the cable. God forbid the dac is integrated to the headphone itself. Also, if the dac fails you're also sol. So yeah, I wouldn't call having a more expensive set up that's also more likely to fail and doesn't have any added benefits a good alternative.
This is all also true about traditional headphones jacks, which have failed quite often for me over the decades
My favorite headphones of all time failed in this way, and requires I have the jack in exactly the right spot/depth
Did you forget to mention that fixing a headphone jack costs a few bucks and can be done by pretty much anyone with a soldering iron?
No, because in practice that isn't a thing that regularly happens, and as the tech continues to die out it will be less and less possible.
Most people do not own and cannot use a soldering iron.
With no headphone jack thats gonna be a no for me dawg. How can they promote sustainability and then design a product that is going to be unusable in 5 years max. That's just the reality of all wireless headphones. The battery will fail to hold charge and they will become useless. Not the truth for wired headphones. Goodwired headphones will last as long as you're able to take care of them usually
Edit: if anyone could give me one good real reason to remove the headphone jack? It's not about the alternatives it's why remove it in the first place? And the space saving aspect of it has long been debunked.
I switched to using wireless headphones a good decade ago and I've never had a set die die to the battery going.
I've had plenty of wired headphones die bectthr cable became frayed or loose though.
I am still surprised at the lack of a headphone jack in the Fairphone, but I don't agree that wireless devices are somehow more prone to becoming e-waste.
How are they not going to become e-waste? At some point the battery will die. And more people will just throw those out then they will recycle them. The Bluetooth codec on the set will get outdated. I have old wireless Bluetooth speakers that are completely "useless" now because of the battery and old Bluetooth codec which doesn't work with modern phones. But damn if I still can't plug into their headphones Jack and use them while they're powered from the wall. If you look up the average lifespan of wireless earbuds you get answers anywhere from 1 to 5 years lol. I have a pair of headphones from the 90's that work great. I have another pair older than me.
Just because regular headphones don't have as much electronics in them doesn't mean they don't contribute to e-waste as well. That's what I am driving at, cheap headphones will die quickly and most people don't bother repairing them. The same will happen to cheap wireless headphones. However, good quality ones will last and an often misses benefit of wireless headphones is that there's a lot less wear on them.
The comments about the battery eventually dying may well be correct, but honestly the batteries last plenty long. It's not like they stop working, they just lose capacity over time. All I'm saying is that the battery "dying" is not the big contributor to e-waste that it's purported to be.
The answer to this problem is better wireless headphones
Because what lithium ion battery last forever? They're well degraded after a few years.
So stop using electronics? Weโre talking about a phone with its own batteries. I understand your point but Fairphone canโt solve every sustainability and e-waste problem with a single device. Not buying this phone, assuming you buy a different, less sustainable phone, is a net negative.
The phone has a removable battery. Not one that you need to break the device apart and unsolder everything to get to it, like almost all headphones.
Again, this is an argument for better headphones.
Well tell that to Fairphone, they're only selling shitty e-waste ones instead of providing a headphone jack.
But do let me know who is making in-ear earphones with a removable battery. Not massive over the head cows. Portable earphones.
For those buy a dongle. This is not a reason to force a headphone jack on every phone. If it were a modular option, sure who cares. But โevery phone needs a jack so some people donโt have to use alternativesโ isnโt a good point
Right, so when we're saying that it was wrong of the company that sells their products on the promise of sustainability and compatibility, to remove their headphones jack and sell shitty ewaste earbuds instead, we're totally saying that every phone in the world needs a headphone jack.
Also funny how quickly we went from "you can get headphones with AAA batteries" to "use a dongle".
If only there was some simple solution that has worked for decades, has zero downsides and costs almost nothing to implement. If only!
You moved the goal posts. The original complaint was about wireless headphones. Now itโs about wired ear buds. If you dig hard enough you can be mad about anything, but that doesnโt mean itโs important.
They could create less e-waste by including a headphone jack and not removing it cause they wanna sell their own wireless headphones. Its a simple money move. And I don't wanna support a company like that even if in theory their message is just.
Itโs also in keeping with the entire industry. โI donโt want to use a USB-C dongleโ isnโt a principled stance
I've made plenty of other good points for why the headphone jack should be still included.
Youโve certainly made plenty of points about it
So use a AAA or something like my old pair did. We just need better Bluetooth headphones.
So buy a DAC with mini jack adapter and call it a day then?
Oh joy something else i need in my pocket.
You created the need, not the manufacturer, not me, not your mamma YOU DID. And you can still get phones with a headphone jack your just pissy every phone doesn't come with one.
Get the fuck over yourself.
The manufacturer absolutely created the need to have a dongle by removing the headphone jack. Give me one good reason and a good reason to remove it?
I don't know how you use your headphones, but in my case I switched to wireless because every single pair of wired headphones I had would break. Usually the cable, earbuds because they were in my pocket, and the overhead ones I'd drive over with my office chair.
Switched to wireless a couple years ago, no issues since then.
It's cuz you don't put them in a protective case every time like you do with wireless earbuds. If you took the same care to wrap them up and properly protect them every single time before you put them away which takes like three more seconds than wireless earbuds they would last just as long.
It's not the same care though. Wireless earbuds come with a box. For regular ones, I'd have to make a suitable box, and also carefully roll the cables every time.
A lot of wired earbuds especially if you're willing to spend the kind of money you would spend on wireless earbuds come with very nice carrying cases. For cheapos there's really cheap like silicone wraps that are super easy to use. It's a little piece of silicone with a few little cutouts that makes wrapping the headphones really easy and keeps them relatively protected and tangle free. I put headphones on it every day for years and they've kept just as well as the ones with the fancy carry cases. In any case you can get much better sounding wired headphones plus the cheap carrying case for cheaper than any just as good wireless headset out there . And even if you're not looking for a deal out of wired headphones. There is always a better fidelity over the microphone and sound quality than most wireless earbuds in my experience. Especially if you're spending the same kind of money you are on wireless earbuds. And the only inconvenience comes at the lack of a headphone port. Putting them away is not this hassle people make it to be. There is a convenience of seconds with wireless earbuds.
Moondrop Aria. $70/80, comes with a carrying case + detachable cable.
If all of your wired iems broke, you either broke them yourself or were buying very crappy iems.
Really? My wired headphones have lasted 10+ years. My oldest bluetooth headset lasted 5.
Wired Earbuds or Headphones? Most wired earbuds are crap, so it makes sense to use Bluetooth. Wired Headphones should not break. I don't want to argue with your experiences, but I have never seen headphones break. I used a pair for seven years, and only stopped using it wasn't worth it to buy new pads (the headphones cost $20, pads $10).
I've had plenty of cables on wired headphones die, and if the headphones don't have removable cables, that's it for them (unless you can solder on new cables, but you could also argue that you can replace the battery of wireless headphones). I've had the cable of my Sennheisers break like 3 times so far and I've only had the headphones for a couple of years, luckily they can be replaced easily
I've gone through many pairs of headphones too, I've worked from home for years and had a long-distance relationship in a time before smartphones (and before cheap wireless headphones) so Skype+headphones was the solution. Both driving over them with an office chair and accidentally pulling them were real dangers and caused real damage.
Now I just don't use them anymore, since I have meetings on a company laptop, and the relationship is much closer.
Just leave one of these on your headphones and you'll never know the difference.
I don't want to. And I don't want to carry one around with me everywhere. I use several different types of wired headphones. Plus the convenience of being able to plug into basically any sound system is unmatched. Still plenty of cars that just use aux cords. Plenty of speaker systems that are easier to connect to with a headphone cord and sound better.
And my final point is there is no practical reason to remove it it is just as easy to waterproof and it does not take up that much space.
Yeah. I actually went from usb c only phone to one with a headphone jack again, and I've decided I'm not even considering devices without a headphone jack. The dongles suck from either a usability perspective or a software one, and they just add another point of failure rather than just using a very simple aux jack. I get why a lot of manufacturers stopped supporting them (it costs some money, and the dongle make them some), but it's still very, very dumb.
This is a case though where your other sound systems you guys are also trying to plug into are outdated. Because your phone is not among your outdated productsl, doesn't mean it's a manufacturers' fault. They are simply catering to the market.
Newer head units (stand alone audio sources) have Bluetooth and other connectivity features plus a jack anyways.
So because you're using outdated shit it's the phones fault? Let me ask you, so you think more devices in the future will have jacks or less? Answer: less. The sooner you change your equipment the less heartache you'll have.
Bluetooth gets outdated. A headphone jack does not. Bluetooth is constantly updating its codec so are phones. I have wireless speakers from 5 years ago that refuse to work because the Bluetooth version is too old.
I use a Bluetooth dac or just Bluetooth headphones most of the time. But occasionally, I have issues with battery life or Bluetooth and just want to use a headphone jack (a technology that is simple in part because it has been around for over a century in various iterations), and not having one is incredibly frustrating from a usability standpoint. I'm not projecting my issue with "using outdated shit, " I'm stating that I actually tried to move on, and when I went back (temporarily at first) the increase in usability was frankly notable.
Yeah man and they said that with the horse and buggy as well which had been around for thousands of years, and DVD and laser disk, and mp3's and jet flight.
Yeah, there's still a niche if you're wanting to "win" your argument. But you may as well shout at the wall.
Manufacturers don't care about your niche use cases especially since arguably better alternatives have come about.
It's not. There's no reason why headphone jacks would be outdated. They carry an analog signal to drive the headphones. With a dongle, you're just converting that signal from USB-C. USB-C headphones carry the exact same signal and bluetooth is garbage for audio quality. 3.55mm TRS is the de facto standard for headphones in the consumer market. It really doesn't get any simpler or cheaper.
I'm with you. Guess what sometimes I have a call and my Bluetooth buds are charging or not in the same room. Guess what I have connected to my computer? A headset. Guess what isn't easily plugged into my phone! This headset! I've had dongles die on me too man.
I hate that all phones have removed them. Screw Apple for this trend. I wish Apple had the balls and removed them from the laptops too. Would have loved to see that backlash.
Based on the responses people are too ignorant for that to ever happen.
I rather enjoy all the people telling you that your use case is invalid because of inferior compromised solutions available.
There are a bunch of people who express a strong preference for a feature, don't invalidate peoples requirements.
Doesn't matter if that feature is something you use personally or not.
What this does indicate is there is demand in the market for a GrapheneOS/CalyxOS phone with a headphone jack. This is why I'm running a Pixel 5a still!
I too still have pixel 5a. Glad somebody gets that every "solution" has been vastly inferior to just a headphone jack
I use bluetooth headset when i'm at home to watch videos, but if i take a call, i plug in my wired headphones to get reliability and clarity. When i go out into the city I only have a pair of wired headphones in my man purse.
I'm multimodal and I like it!
Nothing is worse then being on a group chat and somebody is fighting their bluetooth with extra delays or scratchy audio... I dont want to be that guy
USB DACs are quite small now. I don't mind having to plug mine into my phone to use wired headphones.
I refuse to buy a phone without a headphone jack but in my experience wired earbuds last about 9 months while my cheap JBL 110bt bluetooth buds are still going strong after more than 5 years of almost daily use. The battery still lasts about 7 hours.
Stop buying crappy earbuds then. I have IEMs and headphones several decades old that still work just fine.
Yeah, if you use earbuds, Bluetooth is so much better. I don't know why wired earbuds are so garbage, but I had two die in three years. My headphones still work after seven, but the pads are worn off, so I stopped using them
Man I'm super interested in this hardware, if GrapheneOS supported FP it would be a no brainer for me.
I believe the reason they don't is because:
I'm honestly surprised GOS hasn't supported the FP yet. CalyxOS has for about a year or so now, and I imagine they'll support the FP 5 too.
Graphene developers might support it, its their kind of crazy, as long as the hardware security updates keep getting released for long enough to make it worth while (2028 which yeah... why not).
The security updates I'm guessing are probably good enough. But possibly a bigger issue is this phone not being avalible in the US, supposing the Graphene Devs are there too (no clue where they are, just guessing).
2028 Baseband support ... so 5 ish years of full support. Which is pretty good, why not just say that?
I had to scroll way too long (on fairphone.com's FP5 page) to find the data sheet. It feels like they're trying to distract from something. Maybe no easy LineageOS support - maybe shitty battery life. My FP1 is still in perfect working order, lasting 2 weeks in standby on the original battery, but obviously doesn't support LTE or get SW updates - but the FP2 is dead within 24-48 hours on standby :/ And battery drains within 20 minutes watching youtube
The FP2 battery dying quickly might be explained by Snapdragon's non ideal SOCs around that time period, it was also a problem on the Galaxy S5 that I put up with firsthand.
The SOCs had the performance, but they ran hot and drank the battery as if there was an electricity drought.
I don't think Android 9(?) is going to be particularly kind to that device either...
Indeed, this seems to be the issue - everytime I use the browser, I can feel the phone running hot as the battery drains. Anyways, my FP2 is beyond end of life, even the file transfer over USB stopped working recently, I can barely wiggle the charger cable to the point where it's still charging.
I'd buy a new one, but sadly they keep getting bigger, and I hate huge phones that ruin my pant pockets, plus are uncomfortable to carry in them.
Because they promised and continue to deliver more on Fairphones 2&3
So the specs seem pretty good. Some are equivalent to the Pixel 7, some a little less, some a bit better like the selfie camera. But the pixel is quite a bit cheaper, nearly $200 retail. I wonder if they're considering making a cheaper version equivalent to the Pixel a series.
I doubt it. Every different iteration of the phone means producing less pieces, which will inevitably drive the cost up. I doubt Fairphone can afford it.
I think due to the custom designs involved in making it modular / repairable, combined with the niche appeal, itโs expected that these devices will be produced in low volumes and therefore will always cost more than the equivalent Pixel, due to missing out on economies of scale.
Sustainability has a price. You're indirectly paying that price for the Pixel too btw, it's just not on the bill.
Will be interesting to see a comparison of the fp4 and the pf5!
Pearphone 5?
almost; pairfone 5
Wait, people are scared of industrial components? Theyโre usually the most reliable
Iirc, a lot of them also have efficiency as a secondary priority, since whatever the chip is running will always be plugged in.
Secondary, yes, but the push to claim โmuh production line is more greenโ has probably improved that too.
Embedded, low power stuff is quite common.
Then again Iโm no expert, they could very well still be power hogs
Yeah, but it usually doesn't downclock as aggressively, right? Or is that entirely dependent on the CPU scheduler?
The scheduler canโt do anything if the hardware isnโt designed to. If the cpu canโt downclock when idle, it wonโt, regardless of software
Now if only I could buy it.
Specs aren't too bad, doesn't sound like a bad mig range phone and I might actually consider this if it wasn't that they don't sell it here ๐
Seems really awesome and promising however I'm not really trying to have an outdated computer (read: phone) at 600 euro. Not even available in north America right now.
I like what they're trying to do, however 10 years is an eternity in the tech world and if this company doesn't sell enough phones - likely enough of this phone, then whose to say this company will even be around in 10 years, much less have a dev team competent enough to take over support where Qualcomm left off?
This is one of those huge promises that manufacturers make, with little to no evidence of being able to back it up.
Lol, they were funded 10 years ago snd when fairephone one came out people were already saying what you're saying.
There are customers for this kind of phones and the idea to not throw away perfectly working electronics.
But customers accepted to not be able to replace their batteries or being sold phone full of glue.
Outdated hardware isn't really as important on a phone than it is as a PC. Unless you are gaming on your phone, phone hardware is plenty powerful enough these days for the grand majority of tasks.
The software updates are the biggest concern and they intend to do 10 years of updates. That is more than long enough for this device before it becomes obsolete.
I'm running a nearly 10 year old laptop and its fine too.
And it will only get better as technology starts to plateau. They will stay relevant for longer.
Not sure we'll ever hit that point tbh.
Fair, but I meant more along the lines of what the everyday user will need. After a certain point, what more do you really need on a phone or standard PC? Sure, servers and supercomputers can always take more, but for the average consumer is it really that useful?
Yeah that I def agree with.
Its only 2028 for hardware security updates anyway, so don't think about the 10 years. You could always run any old phone with lineageos on it and get "software updates" from lineage for the same experience.
Anyone with an older model know if thereโs been a way to add wireless (qi) charging?
There are such pads that plug in via the usb and can be hidden under a case, if you had no other option. I've used it for my android mp3 player.
Ah, another post on a great new addition to the Fairphone lineup, another post where the top comments are complaining about because there is no headphone jack, they won't consider it.
Y'all seriously have your priorities messed up if that's what keeps you from supporting Fairphone. If having a device with a headphone jack is that important to you, invest in a dedicated audio player. You can get some with high quality DAC's and more. But seriously, y'all need to cope about the Fairphone not having a single feature you want being a total deal breaker. That's honestly petty...
How about, fuck no.
People have a right to demand a very simple feature that costs almost nothing and is incredibly useful. If that's a major requirement, then who the hell are you to say they can't depend it?
For a phone who's ethos is sustainability buying a 2nd device just for music is antithetical. When my FP3 eventually goes out of support I'll have to look elsewhere.
I've bought 2 wireless Samsung earbuds pros because 1 stopped working. The second one also stopped working so I bought 10 dollar wired earbuds and haven't had an issue. I wasted like 250 dollars before finding a 10 dollar solution.
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This seems to kill my USB C Port, as the dongle is attached while I move around and I've already destroyed 2 USB C DACs and 1 phone port.
I have switched to Bluetooth because of that, but a headphone jack would be really nice, because I do have some custom in-ears and some nice over-ears around, which I now never use...
Sounda great, but like all previous Fairphones there's no reason for the vast majority of the people on Earth to be interested in this because it's only available in Europe.
Even if I do import it here in AU; I don't get a real warranty, I pay huge important taxes (or a markup to a reseller), and I have to go through just as much trouble for any replacement parts I may need.
You realize you are on a social media platform primarily funded by the European Union right?
Jokes aside, it's not like the same argument ever comes up if the new is about US internal laws about net neutrality or their ISPs having to tell customers what they bill.
What argument? It's a fact that I can't purchase this phone, nor can most people on the planet.
Net neutrality and US ISP billing shenanigans don't imact me, nor do they impact the rest of the planet.
What does that have to do with a phone that's only sold in Europe?