Interesting how they went for an IoT SoC (Qualcomm QCM 6490), instead for an SoC that's actually meant for usage in phones.
They probably did this to be able to get longer Android updates. As a side effect, that means it natively supports desktop Ubuntu and Windows 11 IoT Enterprise.
On the other hand, this is pretty much the only phone using this SoC. (There are three models by a totally unknown brand from India that use the same SoC.)
It's going to be interesting to see whether that's an advantage or a disadvantage.
Mhm desktop ubuntu phone sound fun, or even desktop windows
That's what the SoC supports. Let's see what the phone ends up supporting. But I agree, it does sound fun.
I really wish it had a 3.5mm audio jack. I don't see what companies stand to earn, other than money, when they remove the headphone jack.
I can see why Apple and Samsung removed it because the they can market their own wireless headphones.
Removing the jack only removes capability, it is not like older phones didn't have the capability to connect to Bluetooth headphones
Yeah their original excuse to remove it was largely related to space due to the modular design.
If you're savvy enough to buy a Fairphone you likely have a gajillion USB-C cables and adapters laying around. I appreciate them not generating more waste.
if you buy a fairphone maybe you do not buy new devices every year
When I got my FP3, I needed a new USBC cable as I was upgrading from a Galaxy S5. To be honest, my (now broken) Galaxy S5 still has its original charger in the box, since I reused my S4 charger for it.
Nowadays though it should be pretty common for people jumping to an FP or other USBC device to at least have an existing USBC cable kicking around I think
How is that bad? Go to your drawer and use one of the dozens you'll have accumulated over the years
None of my existing chargers supported the fastest protocols that my device from a few years ago supported, and it didn't come with one. Also, what if you're getting a device for the first time and actually don't have any? At least it should maybe be an option when buying one so you can decide not to get one if you don't need it, but a new device should come with everything needed to operate it.
It's not hard to buy a separate charger if you need one.
Just like game consoles no longer come with bundled games despite being useless without a game. You're big enough to know what you need.
They still come with a power cable and a controller though, which are necessary to actually turn on the machine. If you don't already have a charger and didn't notice that the device you're getting doesn't come with one, you probably can't even turn it on to see if it works before having to buy more things.
Do they come with HDMI cables? Haven't bought one in a while but back in the day my Nintendo consoles didn't come with RF adapters. I remember Christmas 97 and not having one for my N64 and it drove me insane.
Phones are generaly charged because its better for the battery but i am not saying that im not miffed about chargers no longer inkluded
With that I agree, it should be a option to buy one.
only micro usb and very slow charging bricks in there
You can order one with the phone, I think. I don't see it as a missing part, but rather one that is not automatically billed whether or not I need one.
You don't accumulate that many if you don't buy phones every year or two, and then as mentioned, over more time your charger needs could've changed.
The charger shouldn't be only thing that's built to last.
But unfortunately its very common for people to change phones often
We are long past the days of proprietary charging ports on phones, my guy. You can use any charger that came with any phone you've owned in the past like 10 years.
get wit the times
Threads for Fairphone often fill up with "it's not going to work if they don't X." Lots of people don't seem to understand that their personal viewpoint can be quite different from other's.
There are people who are aware of the trade-offs of a Fairphone, but still choose to get one.
I've always been in favour of a phone with a shitty camera. I don't give a fuck about posting on social media, and these days a huge chunk of a phone's price is determined by how powerful of a camera they were able to cram into it.
I recognize that this apparently sounds insane to most people.
It's nice to have a decent camera, but honestly, 90% of the people (including myself) are so bad at taking pictures, that the difference between mid range and ultra premium is almost zero.
The only thing that's really really cool is night mode. My Pixel can take really great photos with extremely low light levels.
I don't post on social media either, but my phone have replaced the compact camera that I used to pack for family vacations.
I suspect that's what most people use their phone camera phone: to take personal photos that will only be shared with family members.
My socially isolated self rarely if ever needs to take a single picture. I'm doing perfectly fine with the base camera that my old devices came with.
The cameras aren't even bad, they are perfectly acceptable for a mid-range phone. If you use a GCam port they can look great.
In terms of BOM the cameras usually aren't even that much. It's just one factor that allows them to differentiate "premium" phones they can gouge more for.
I pre-ordered already.
Ok, so honesty time: The fact that this company is good for the environment, pays people well, etc.. is NOT my main "thing" for wanting to own this phone.
It's the fact that it is open. I can unlock and flash whatever I want, I can fix things by ordering replacement parts, a new screen is TOTALLY do-able both price wise and doing it myself.
Also it does not come with bloat, or vendor-lock in software like on ALL samsung shitty phones.
Out of all the phones, this one makes the most sense.
(And my current FP4 goes to my mother, perfect for her and many more years of support)
What OSes support the fairphone? I'd consider one if I could run something other than android on it
What are you currently running? Just curious what non-android and non-ios is working well for you.
I see Google Drive, Gmail, Google Messages on screenshots so it does come with bloatware.
While unfortunate, not shipping these standard Google apps is not really an option for any Android manufacturer due to Google requirements. Including them is required if you want to use anything from the GSM, which includes things like the Play Store and everything it touches. You can technically ship a different Android distribution like Lineage or /e/, but that's not really what most people will be expecting of an "Android" phone and will narrow the viable target demographic even more than the value proposition already does.
That's correct, and people who want a fully degoogled OS usually know how to install it, people who expect to see the Play Store and other Google apps are less likely to know how to install that.
Easily removed, though. The great thing about Fairphones is, like Pixels, they have loads of deGoogled OS support.
As a side note, Google Messages replaced the recently discontinued AOSP SMS messaging app
The first company that produces a phone with
removable battery
maximum 6in screen
3.5mm jack
open bootloader
will break the market
The Fairphone 3 has that. It also supports Android 13.
Yeah that would be nice, unluckily it's been discontinued and whenever I find one on the secondary market the price is prohibitive...
People want big phones for some reason, so it's unlikely it would break the market. Those who want what you described are (unfortunately) very few.
People want big phones for some reason
Bigger battery, better for content consumption and overall usage if you use it frequently. It's not that weird, yet you treat it as if we were talking about aliens.
Not sure where you got the aliens conclusion.
I mean, almost complete disappearance of smaller phones is kinda puzzling? The difference in screen/battery size between a 6" and a 6.8" phone isn't that big, yet one will fit pretty much any pocket, while the other one won't. I still find it counterintuitive that most people would put that much priority on gaining screen real estate over mobility. Another interesting thing is that these smaller sized phones are still present in flagship releases, so they're kind of a premium feature now.
I mean, almost complete disappearance of smaller phones is kinda puzzling?
Yeah, my bad there, I understood the previous comment as somewhat of a "Well I don't understand how people can like big phones".
My guess is, as with many other things, corporations pushed towards a certain thing (big phones in this case) enough to make it the default and then the bigger audience just stopped caring as a result.
It is interesting indeed, but I guess that's just it, aside from the obvious fact that the bigger the space, the easier is to design stuff (my previous comment + better heat dissipation + more space for cameras), so probably a mixture of all of these things together and a couple more.
What's weird is that it's the only option. They discontinued the iPod since the phone did it all, but then also stopped making phones that are convenient sizes and any analog sound option.
I don't think that we are very few, I mean look at the upvotes...
It's just the market that is going the other direction and we just take it instead of spending a little bit of time looking for other solutions.
And a transparent back cover
Fairphone 3.
I do not see any suitable replacement anywhere on the market 😭
I was exited for this phone, but as I said in another thread: I am a bit disappoited about the CPU and the substantial price hike, but most of all aqout the size increase. Is there any market research at all indicating that customers want 6"+ displays?
Is there any market research at all indicating that customers want 6"+ displays?
Unfortunately, yes. People who buy smaller phones are the people who buy a new phone less often, and small phones tend to sell worse than the big models (see S10e, iPhone 12(?) Mini) so don't get renewed. Would be nice if they did.
It's so frustrating that this is true. I use devices until they're dead or at risk of serious compromise before getting another, but the only options are ones that I can't even hold comfortably with one hand. I'm seriously considering the Jelly 2 at this point.
I picked up a 13 Mini back in March, and will ride this bad boy for as long as I can, in the hope that Apple eventually release another Mini model.
So perhaps it’s true that we hold onto our little phones for longer, primarily because we’re waiting for another little phone to come along.
This is so true. I had a 12 mini and upgraded to the 13 mini in December. The battery is better, and I plan on keeping this until the next mini phone arrives. (If any)
For the FP4 they said one of the reasons they remove the aux input was that more people asked them to reduce the size of their phone than to keep the input.
The CPU choice is great, why are you disappointed with it? It's the reason they can offer a minimum of 8 years of support on this model.
I would also like to know what the problem is with the CPU. My current phone has this CPU and it works fine.
Unfortunately I think a lot of people just have zero understanding of how the smartphone industry works. They think small manufacturers like Fairphone just have free reign to get whatever parts they want, offer updates for however long they want, etc.
The reality is that Fairphone have to find a way to work within the system that has been created by big tech. That means selecting parts based on their suitability for the long-term support goals they have. It's one of the reasons why the specs are mid-range, because these parts stay in circulation for longer. For example, the 4 had a very generic 60 Hz IPS notch display because it was a widely used panel within the industry at the time. Now that higher refresh rate OLEDs have become more common on mid-range devices, Fairphone has been able to put one into the 5.
You have a Qualcomm QCM 6490? Google told me, there is basically no phone out there that uses it, because it's an IoT SoC, not one made for phones.
How did you end ab with that phone? I never heard of that company.
I live in France, I wanted a phone with buttons that wasn't just an ODM with a different logo on it. It is an interesting company. I've had some contact with them. They are legit going to pull out of China and move production back to France. They uphold their 5 year warranty promise as well.
And, they update their stuff. I'm on Android 13 and apparently older devices are still receiving updates too.
I'm getting some low-key Fairphone vibes there. Cool stuff!
It would be pretty low-key. I wouldn't want to pry this phone open and then glue it back together. Fairphones are supposed to be rather easy to repair.
Yeah, that's true. I meant the software support/warranty aspect.
With you on almost all points. Only the size didn't actually increase. The phone's dimensions are exactly the same. Only the weight went up a bit. The screen size was increased by using up more of the phone's front side.
The phone is still a massive brick.
substantial price hike
it’s €50 more expensive than the FP4 with the same RAM/storage configuration on its release (€650 fot 8 GB of RAM and 256 GB of storage).
Also it's 3x cheaper than my pentium that i bought in 1997 and it has 3000x less ram than this. I know that we don't have that kind of exponential growth of hardware like we had 10 years ago, but still there is progress and it's expected to have a better product for the same price each generation.
It's roughly the same size as the Fairphone 4, isn't it? Like 1mm less thick.
I get that they wanted to increase the battery and put out a new cpu, but I'm disappointed they're not offering any camera or screen upgrades for my Fairphone 4.
Were you actually expecting that? No manufacturer has ever created an upgradeable smartphone, let alone one as small as Fairphone. The Phonebloks concept died ages ago.
The situation with the camera on the Fairphone 3 was unique and mainly in response to problems with the original module. It shouldn't be taken as evidence that they have the ability to do this with every edition of the Fairphone, or extend upgrades to other areas like the display.
Fair enough. Framework is definitely able to do those sorts of upgrades, but laptops are a lot more standardized than phones.
That's the focus of Framework's business. Fairphone is a lot more focused on improving working conditions, pay rates, reducing environmental footprint, etc. The modular design is really more of a side-effect of that last bit rather than the reason the company exists.
I understand why is the device so expensive (they wanted to make sure that everyone in the manufacture pipeline is properly paid, and that the materials are ethically sourced as much as humanly possible) but yeah, unless I can be absolutely sure that I won't be changing devices in the next five years, I don't think I'll be able to afford this one.
Isn't it wonderful playing a rigged game?
Here is a phone that ticks many, many boxes for sustainable and ethical production. It's the phone that "free market will fix it" neoliberals insist should bring the downfall of companies that just release e-waste.
But of course the free market won't fix anything.
Neoliberals built a managed democracy and giant corporations were allowed to use outsourcing, slaves and environment-unfriendly manufacturing.
The influx of cheap goods subsidised by the misery of foreign workers and future generations made it harder to notice our shrinking wages. We could still afford to fill our homes with tat, just like our parents did.
But your grandfathers tools lasted 30 years and yours will last 3 (and be worse for the duration). Very few companies even bother offering good products, let alone ethical ones.
Because nobody can actually afford "good" any more. Not the consumers who want to buy it, nor the handful of companies trying to sell it. You have to buy crap. Companies have to be unethical.
It's dug us a very very deep hole that's going to be a lot of hard work to climb out of and it's looking like politicians and billionaires are only interested in selling us new shovels.
Millions of people could afford this phone, they just don't care about ethics.
Instead the Samsung S's, Folds and iPhones sell by the tens of millions because they are trendy and give more "bang for the buck".
And millionaires could afford to pay their workers fair wages, but apparently you'd rather blame the general public instead.
It's not at all unreasonable for people to assume the goods they buy are ethically produced.
If someone gets food poisoning from a restaurant, do you blame them for eating there? Do you try and shame them for not reading through 800 reviews to check it was safe to eat there? Do you insist they should have gone somewhere that was twice the price for half the portion?
Of course you don't. But apparently this deeply flawed logic is only used when it comes to corporate greed and only because rich people don't run restaurants.
All those are fair points. There's not much freedom of choice because common people are struggling to live as it is, to splurge on something with a bad camera and battery life makes no sense (I believe those are some main points people upgrade their phones).
I'm running a 4 year old phone and probably will be going on 5th year because of economical strain.
In your analogy, it also doesn't help that there's only one ethical restaurant among hundreds of unethical ones. It's expensive because nobody goes there and nobody goes there because it's expensive.
I understand why people would hesitate to pay the price. Realistically, the Fairphone could have put in higher quality parts but that would have just blown their costs out further.
But exploitative wages -- for both foreign and domestic workers -- are at the core of many problems and I hate to see customers blamed.
The one in a hundred restaurant might be full of empty tables, but where would people eat if you doubled their wages? If there were two chocolate bars with identical taste, being offered at an identical price, except one of them used child slaves (and said so on the packaging), how many people "wouldn't care" then?
Ethical choices shouldn't be a luxury, unethical choices just shouldn't be an option. If that means people can't afford chocolate, they can take it up with the executives who have been pocketing their payrises.
I can understand that. The next best option is a second-hand phone, which will also help with your financial problem. However keep in mind that Fairphone are offering a minimum of support for 8 years (and aiming for 10) so it may work out as less overall depending on what you normally spend on a phone.
That was my thought as well. I am unfortunately not able to afford an expensive phone if it won't last significantly longer than a regular. But then again, my Xiaomi phone became unusable after about 2, maybe 3 years I think. It was just to unbearably slow. So ok, it's about 150-200€ every 2 years - maybe 700€ for 5 wouldn't be that bad then. I also saw there is something like a subscription thing where you pay per month?
There is an official subscription called Fairphone Easy being offered in the Netherlands exclusively. For other European counties there's Commown, but it's pretty expensive.
The big draw for me is that it's modular and easily repairable. If you crack the screen, the battery life gets worse, or whatever else, you can replace it without too much issue. With the relative stop of phones getting better over the years (not saying they need to either, because they do everything that I want and way more, which is mostly just browsing the internet/Lemmy) I'm much more looking for something I can just use for many years instead of replacing every year or two.
Are you looking for the new Fairphone 5? It is not yet available in your market.
Yeah the place i linked does a cool thing where they degoogle it. Seems interesting.
rounded screen
front camera in screen
designed for you
Sure as hell not.
Also:
lack of 3.5mm jack
EVEN BIGGER size
At this point, they're just following the trend.
It's not bigger, it's even a bit thinner than fairphone 4. Screen is slightly bigger though
With bigger they probably didn't mean the thickness, but it's size. Width and height. Personally I wouldn't even mind if it would be thicker.
10.5mm thick.
Fairphone 4 was 10.5mm thick.
Much thinner, yes.
Why wouldn't they? Their goal is to create a fair phone. Not a niche phone for a few geeks.
Jack isn't really a niche thing. It's as mainstream as it gets.
Because that few geeks is their actual market right now.
Yes, and I'm still a little surprised, even after the 4.
Are they really aiming for mainstream consumers? Because, I don't know, but I don't think they reach mainstream people at all.
Who they reach is those who are explicitly searching for this kind, techies, and they also have pretty different needs than the mainstream.
I mean, I think it's ok that they are making phones like these.
But what's weird is that they are not making phones for techies, who are their current audience, as I see.
I understand that it's costly to have different variants, but at least there would be 2 or 3, which are actually distinct in their features, for the different audiences. No need for different SoC, but like there's this one for the mainstream when that catches on. But then another for techies with jack, a smaller and normal screen (which means square, without camera hole, front camera is distinct if there at all) and less cameras on the back, maybe other diffs too like IR blaster or double sim and microSD. It could also have a different look, like shiny instead of glossy. I mean, it's a different audienve, the preferred looks will be most probably be different too.. and while I don't dislike how the non-screen parts of the 5 look like, it's not my cup of tea.
And not including charger which you of course can buy for extra €25. It would be fair if the charger was free with every phone. Make it optional if you want to claim it's because of environment, but make it free if someone wants it with your phone.
In Europe, next year, every phone will need to use usb-c. Since you're probably not using multiple phones at once, having more than one charger is a waste of BOTH ressources and money. Having the charger separate BUT with the price included in the phone's (because let's be realistic, there is no such thing as 'free' in the mobile market, just fees you don't see) would just raise the phone's price for everyone (including myself).
So I'll have to disagree. Having the phone NOT bundled with a charger is fighting both an economical and environemental waste.
Their website doesn't seem to specify which GSM bands it has (simply "More Bands and Band-Combinations for better reception"). I want to know how much of a given provider's spectrum I'd be missing out on trying to sneak one of these to the states.
TL;DR: By adding band 66, Fairphone 5 has better compatibility with cellular network providers in the USA. Band 48 also gives better compatibility with Verizon. T-Mobile is still the best for Fairphone in the USA.
Thanks! Yeah, it looks like it covers T-mobile minus the GHZ/ mmWave bands, which is good for me. A solid consider, especially if they (eventually) drag it over to the states like the Fairphone 5.
This is a preorder, not actual release.
it's better than nothing right? 😂
I know what you mean, but because you've allowed yourself to miss my point completely - I'll do the same.
No, it is not, in fact, better. Nothing would be better, because we would not have a false impression of the situation.
Anyway I preordered
I sort of wish I could justify it, but my current phone is more than capable.
My current phone is a Lenovo P2 from 2016. I'm waiting 7 years for this upgrade.
still waiting for the next unfairphone release
September 12th for the new iPhone.
a day after the
This is a pretty great phone, I just wouldn't spend this much on a phone. Even if it lasts let's say 6 years, I can buy 3-4 mid range androids at this price & as the years go by they could be far better than this one near the end.
Also while Iphones are really hard to repair, they do last very long & there are people out there who can replace my iphone battery for like $40 and it too would last 5-6 years. (a recent enough refurbished SE for example)
Even if it lasts let's say 6 years, I can buy 3-4 mid range androids at this price
Something tells me you missed the point of the Fairphone...
I think a very small percentage of users would justify a purchase on repair-ability & sustainability alone (privacy is not it!), if it does not save them at least a little money in the long run and as things are it does not. If it was just a bit cheaper they could sell 10x as many units & normal people like me would be happy. I think this is reasonable to ask for, yes the phone is more expensive to make, but software support is not nearly as expensive as you think. Android is very easy to update and port these days, sure it's like 4 engineer salaries to keep some degree of testing running alongside development, but if they sold more devices, then the relative cost would go way down.
Then again, if they can maintain profitability by targeting that niche market it's good for them, I just wish someone took 'right to repair' & 'right to own' to the masses.
The problem is, paying fair wages, sourcing fair materials und make sure the phone ist repairable and lasts longer will always be more expensive than let's say Xiaomi. If the phone lasts for example six years instead of the usual two they will only sell a third of the phones other manufactures will sell, even if they reach the same customer base.
If it a) comes to the US, and b) comes with stock Android out of the box, I might get it for my next phone. Currently leaning toward a Pixel with Graphene.
b) is already given and a) depends on whether you'll find someone to bring it to you.
b) is not already given. The only company that brought the FP4 to the US loads it with /e/.
Which you can remove easily. Or just organize someone buying itv in Europe.
This is going to be my next phone. I cant wait to get out of the mainstream phone market. I barely use my phone for anything but browsing the web so it shouldbe fine.
Me too! I'm using my phone for more than browsing, but it will my next phone!
Fairphone Fold when?
Fairphold
That's what I want to see. Real choice in smartphones.
I wonder if IP55 is enough to mount to motorcycle handlebars in heavy rain.
Doubt it but for that use an otterbox case or similar would be your best friend, hell nowadays you can mount phones within a waterproof bag.
Doesn't seem like there are any waterproof cases for the 4, so I doubt we will see any for the 5. Maybe more likely now that the phone is available in the US at least. Not a fan of the waterproof bag idea myself.
At least my tank bag has the option for a waterproof cell phone pocket though, I doubt the touch screen would work through the thick plastic. Never tried it because I don't have the pouch required to keep the phone in place on the bag.
That's not what I mean when I talk about a case, I mean something I can keep on all of the time. Something like an otterbox fre would be more appropriate. Or the old lifeproof cases like I had for my iPhone 4S. I live in a climate where it is pretty much always raining. My Pixel 3 can get drenched to the point you cant even use the touch screen anymore with no issues. Plus it can mount straight to my handlebars with a quadlock case instead of having to put on my tank bag and strap it to that.
Oh wow, that sounds like an infinitely better experience.
Does OtterBox make cases for Fairphone?
Not the literal brand, no, but there are dozens of knockoff waterproof cases for exactly fairphone 4 on amazon.
Edit: No.
Well, IPx5 is technically water resistant for water jets and up to 12.5 liters per minute. I think that sounds enough to be used it rain. I also saw some reviews of other devices that even IPx4 is fine in rain.
Looks pretty nice tbh! Probably going to stick to my current phone a few more years until it stops being updated but if I manage to break it this might just be the replacement.
Wish it was available here in India. i would have totally bought this for my father.
Repairing these phones is better than buying new ones when he barely does anything other than WhatsApp, youtube and calls.
Repairing has generally been better than buying new for 98+% of cases in the last 5 years or so.
Nah these glue shut phones are pain in ass. Phones need battery replacement after 3 years don't want to go to a service center for a simple job.
I didn't mean in the sense that it's been more practical. I was replying more to the idea that repairing being better isn't dependent on a phone getting very light usage which is what they seemed to be impying.
Very few new phone features released in the last 5 years or so add very much real value for very many people.
Interesting how they went for an IoT SoC (Qualcomm QCM 6490), instead for an SoC that's actually meant for usage in phones.
They probably did this to be able to get longer Android updates. As a side effect, that means it natively supports desktop Ubuntu and Windows 11 IoT Enterprise.
On the other hand, this is pretty much the only phone using this SoC. (There are three models by a totally unknown brand from India that use the same SoC.)
It's going to be interesting to see whether that's an advantage or a disadvantage.
Mhm desktop ubuntu phone sound fun, or even desktop windows
That's what the SoC supports. Let's see what the phone ends up supporting. But I agree, it does sound fun.
I really wish it had a 3.5mm audio jack. I don't see what companies stand to earn, other than money, when they remove the headphone jack.
I can see why Apple and Samsung removed it because the they can market their own wireless headphones.
Removing the jack only removes capability, it is not like older phones didn't have the capability to connect to Bluetooth headphones
Yeah their original excuse to remove it was largely related to space due to the modular design.
If you want to read it is here.
https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/9836188988049-Audio-jack-3-5mm
They don't even send a charger anymore...
If you're savvy enough to buy a Fairphone you likely have a gajillion USB-C cables and adapters laying around. I appreciate them not generating more waste.
if you buy a fairphone maybe you do not buy new devices every year
When I got my FP3, I needed a new USBC cable as I was upgrading from a Galaxy S5. To be honest, my (now broken) Galaxy S5 still has its original charger in the box, since I reused my S4 charger for it.
Nowadays though it should be pretty common for people jumping to an FP or other USBC device to at least have an existing USBC cable kicking around I think
How is that bad? Go to your drawer and use one of the dozens you'll have accumulated over the years
None of my existing chargers supported the fastest protocols that my device from a few years ago supported, and it didn't come with one. Also, what if you're getting a device for the first time and actually don't have any? At least it should maybe be an option when buying one so you can decide not to get one if you don't need it, but a new device should come with everything needed to operate it.
It's not hard to buy a separate charger if you need one.
Just like game consoles no longer come with bundled games despite being useless without a game. You're big enough to know what you need.
They still come with a power cable and a controller though, which are necessary to actually turn on the machine. If you don't already have a charger and didn't notice that the device you're getting doesn't come with one, you probably can't even turn it on to see if it works before having to buy more things.
Do they come with HDMI cables? Haven't bought one in a while but back in the day my Nintendo consoles didn't come with RF adapters. I remember Christmas 97 and not having one for my N64 and it drove me insane.
Phones are generaly charged because its better for the battery but i am not saying that im not miffed about chargers no longer inkluded
With that I agree, it should be a option to buy one.
only micro usb and very slow charging bricks in there
You can order one with the phone, I think. I don't see it as a missing part, but rather one that is not automatically billed whether or not I need one.
You don't accumulate that many if you don't buy phones every year or two, and then as mentioned, over more time your charger needs could've changed.
The charger shouldn't be only thing that's built to last.
But unfortunately its very common for people to change phones often
We are long past the days of proprietary charging ports on phones, my guy. You can use any charger that came with any phone you've owned in the past like 10 years.
get wit the times
Threads for Fairphone often fill up with "it's not going to work if they don't X." Lots of people don't seem to understand that their personal viewpoint can be quite different from other's.
There are people who are aware of the trade-offs of a Fairphone, but still choose to get one.
I've always been in favour of a phone with a shitty camera. I don't give a fuck about posting on social media, and these days a huge chunk of a phone's price is determined by how powerful of a camera they were able to cram into it.
I recognize that this apparently sounds insane to most people.
It's nice to have a decent camera, but honestly, 90% of the people (including myself) are so bad at taking pictures, that the difference between mid range and ultra premium is almost zero.
The only thing that's really really cool is night mode. My Pixel can take really great photos with extremely low light levels.
I don't post on social media either, but my phone have replaced the compact camera that I used to pack for family vacations.
I suspect that's what most people use their phone camera phone: to take personal photos that will only be shared with family members.
My socially isolated self rarely if ever needs to take a single picture. I'm doing perfectly fine with the base camera that my old devices came with.
The cameras aren't even bad, they are perfectly acceptable for a mid-range phone. If you use a GCam port they can look great.
In terms of BOM the cameras usually aren't even that much. It's just one factor that allows them to differentiate "premium" phones they can gouge more for.
I pre-ordered already.
Ok, so honesty time: The fact that this company is good for the environment, pays people well, etc.. is NOT my main "thing" for wanting to own this phone.
It's the fact that it is open. I can unlock and flash whatever I want, I can fix things by ordering replacement parts, a new screen is TOTALLY do-able both price wise and doing it myself.
Also it does not come with bloat, or vendor-lock in software like on ALL samsung shitty phones.
Out of all the phones, this one makes the most sense.
(And my current FP4 goes to my mother, perfect for her and many more years of support)
What OSes support the fairphone? I'd consider one if I could run something other than android on it
Nice, I still had this in my browsing-history: https://forum.fairphone.com/t/operating-systems-for-fairphones/11425
That's quite a list. Nice.
What are you currently running? Just curious what non-android and non-ios is working well for you.
I see Google Drive, Gmail, Google Messages on screenshots so it does come with bloatware.
While unfortunate, not shipping these standard Google apps is not really an option for any Android manufacturer due to Google requirements. Including them is required if you want to use anything from the GSM, which includes things like the Play Store and everything it touches. You can technically ship a different Android distribution like Lineage or /e/, but that's not really what most people will be expecting of an "Android" phone and will narrow the viable target demographic even more than the value proposition already does.
That's correct, and people who want a fully degoogled OS usually know how to install it, people who expect to see the Play Store and other Google apps are less likely to know how to install that.
Easily removed, though. The great thing about Fairphones is, like Pixels, they have loads of deGoogled OS support.
As a side note, Google Messages replaced the recently discontinued AOSP SMS messaging app
The first company that produces a phone with
will break the market
The Fairphone 3 has that. It also supports Android 13.
Yeah that would be nice, unluckily it's been discontinued and whenever I find one on the secondary market the price is prohibitive...
People want big phones for some reason, so it's unlikely it would break the market. Those who want what you described are (unfortunately) very few.
Bigger battery, better for content consumption and overall usage if you use it frequently. It's not that weird, yet you treat it as if we were talking about aliens.
Not sure where you got the aliens conclusion.
I mean, almost complete disappearance of smaller phones is kinda puzzling? The difference in screen/battery size between a 6" and a 6.8" phone isn't that big, yet one will fit pretty much any pocket, while the other one won't. I still find it counterintuitive that most people would put that much priority on gaining screen real estate over mobility. Another interesting thing is that these smaller sized phones are still present in flagship releases, so they're kind of a premium feature now.
Yeah, my bad there, I understood the previous comment as somewhat of a "Well I don't understand how people can like big phones".
My guess is, as with many other things, corporations pushed towards a certain thing (big phones in this case) enough to make it the default and then the bigger audience just stopped caring as a result.
It is interesting indeed, but I guess that's just it, aside from the obvious fact that the bigger the space, the easier is to design stuff (my previous comment + better heat dissipation + more space for cameras), so probably a mixture of all of these things together and a couple more.
What's weird is that it's the only option. They discontinued the iPod since the phone did it all, but then also stopped making phones that are convenient sizes and any analog sound option.
I don't think that we are very few, I mean look at the upvotes...
It's just the market that is going the other direction and we just take it instead of spending a little bit of time looking for other solutions.
And a transparent back cover
Fairphone 3.
I do not see any suitable replacement anywhere on the market 😭
I was exited for this phone, but as I said in another thread: I am a bit disappoited about the CPU and the substantial price hike, but most of all aqout the size increase. Is there any market research at all indicating that customers want 6"+ displays?
Unfortunately, yes. People who buy smaller phones are the people who buy a new phone less often, and small phones tend to sell worse than the big models (see S10e, iPhone 12(?) Mini) so don't get renewed. Would be nice if they did.
It's so frustrating that this is true. I use devices until they're dead or at risk of serious compromise before getting another, but the only options are ones that I can't even hold comfortably with one hand. I'm seriously considering the Jelly 2 at this point.
I picked up a 13 Mini back in March, and will ride this bad boy for as long as I can, in the hope that Apple eventually release another Mini model.
So perhaps it’s true that we hold onto our little phones for longer, primarily because we’re waiting for another little phone to come along.
This is so true. I had a 12 mini and upgraded to the 13 mini in December. The battery is better, and I plan on keeping this until the next mini phone arrives. (If any)
For the FP4 they said one of the reasons they remove the aux input was that more people asked them to reduce the size of their phone than to keep the input.
The CPU choice is great, why are you disappointed with it? It's the reason they can offer a minimum of 8 years of support on this model.
I would also like to know what the problem is with the CPU. My current phone has this CPU and it works fine.
Edit:
Geekbench FP4 Vs FP5 https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/compare/2432096?baseline=2439889
Unfortunately I think a lot of people just have zero understanding of how the smartphone industry works. They think small manufacturers like Fairphone just have free reign to get whatever parts they want, offer updates for however long they want, etc.
The reality is that Fairphone have to find a way to work within the system that has been created by big tech. That means selecting parts based on their suitability for the long-term support goals they have. It's one of the reasons why the specs are mid-range, because these parts stay in circulation for longer. For example, the 4 had a very generic 60 Hz IPS notch display because it was a widely used panel within the industry at the time. Now that higher refresh rate OLEDs have become more common on mid-range devices, Fairphone has been able to put one into the 5.
You have a Qualcomm QCM 6490? Google told me, there is basically no phone out there that uses it, because it's an IoT SoC, not one made for phones.
Crosscall Core-Z5 https://www.crosscall.com/en_FR/core-z5-COZ5.MASTER.html
How did you end ab with that phone? I never heard of that company.
I live in France, I wanted a phone with buttons that wasn't just an ODM with a different logo on it. It is an interesting company. I've had some contact with them. They are legit going to pull out of China and move production back to France. They uphold their 5 year warranty promise as well.
And, they update their stuff. I'm on Android 13 and apparently older devices are still receiving updates too.
I'm getting some low-key Fairphone vibes there. Cool stuff!
It would be pretty low-key. I wouldn't want to pry this phone open and then glue it back together. Fairphones are supposed to be rather easy to repair.
Yeah, that's true. I meant the software support/warranty aspect.
With you on almost all points. Only the size didn't actually increase. The phone's dimensions are exactly the same. Only the weight went up a bit. The screen size was increased by using up more of the phone's front side.
The phone is still a massive brick.
it’s €50 more expensive than the FP4 with the same RAM/storage configuration on its release (€650 fot 8 GB of RAM and 256 GB of storage).
Also it's 3x cheaper than my pentium that i bought in 1997 and it has 3000x less ram than this. I know that we don't have that kind of exponential growth of hardware like we had 10 years ago, but still there is progress and it's expected to have a better product for the same price each generation.
It's roughly the same size as the Fairphone 4, isn't it? Like 1mm less thick.
I get that they wanted to increase the battery and put out a new cpu, but I'm disappointed they're not offering any camera or screen upgrades for my Fairphone 4.
Were you actually expecting that? No manufacturer has ever created an upgradeable smartphone, let alone one as small as Fairphone. The Phonebloks concept died ages ago.
The situation with the camera on the Fairphone 3 was unique and mainly in response to problems with the original module. It shouldn't be taken as evidence that they have the ability to do this with every edition of the Fairphone, or extend upgrades to other areas like the display.
Fair enough. Framework is definitely able to do those sorts of upgrades, but laptops are a lot more standardized than phones.
That's the focus of Framework's business. Fairphone is a lot more focused on improving working conditions, pay rates, reducing environmental footprint, etc. The modular design is really more of a side-effect of that last bit rather than the reason the company exists.
I understand why is the device so expensive (they wanted to make sure that everyone in the manufacture pipeline is properly paid, and that the materials are ethically sourced as much as humanly possible) but yeah, unless I can be absolutely sure that I won't be changing devices in the next five years, I don't think I'll be able to afford this one.
Isn't it wonderful playing a rigged game?
Here is a phone that ticks many, many boxes for sustainable and ethical production. It's the phone that "free market will fix it" neoliberals insist should bring the downfall of companies that just release e-waste.
But of course the free market won't fix anything.
Neoliberals built a managed democracy and giant corporations were allowed to use outsourcing, slaves and environment-unfriendly manufacturing.
The influx of cheap goods subsidised by the misery of foreign workers and future generations made it harder to notice our shrinking wages. We could still afford to fill our homes with tat, just like our parents did.
But your grandfathers tools lasted 30 years and yours will last 3 (and be worse for the duration). Very few companies even bother offering good products, let alone ethical ones.
Because nobody can actually afford "good" any more. Not the consumers who want to buy it, nor the handful of companies trying to sell it. You have to buy crap. Companies have to be unethical.
It's dug us a very very deep hole that's going to be a lot of hard work to climb out of and it's looking like politicians and billionaires are only interested in selling us new shovels.
Millions of people could afford this phone, they just don't care about ethics.
Instead the Samsung S's, Folds and iPhones sell by the tens of millions because they are trendy and give more "bang for the buck".
And millionaires could afford to pay their workers fair wages, but apparently you'd rather blame the general public instead.
It's not at all unreasonable for people to assume the goods they buy are ethically produced.
If someone gets food poisoning from a restaurant, do you blame them for eating there? Do you try and shame them for not reading through 800 reviews to check it was safe to eat there? Do you insist they should have gone somewhere that was twice the price for half the portion?
Of course you don't. But apparently this deeply flawed logic is only used when it comes to corporate greed and only because rich people don't run restaurants.
All those are fair points. There's not much freedom of choice because common people are struggling to live as it is, to splurge on something with a bad camera and battery life makes no sense (I believe those are some main points people upgrade their phones).
I'm running a 4 year old phone and probably will be going on 5th year because of economical strain.
In your analogy, it also doesn't help that there's only one ethical restaurant among hundreds of unethical ones. It's expensive because nobody goes there and nobody goes there because it's expensive.
I understand why people would hesitate to pay the price. Realistically, the Fairphone could have put in higher quality parts but that would have just blown their costs out further.
But exploitative wages -- for both foreign and domestic workers -- are at the core of many problems and I hate to see customers blamed.
The one in a hundred restaurant might be full of empty tables, but where would people eat if you doubled their wages? If there were two chocolate bars with identical taste, being offered at an identical price, except one of them used child slaves (and said so on the packaging), how many people "wouldn't care" then?
Ethical choices shouldn't be a luxury, unethical choices just shouldn't be an option. If that means people can't afford chocolate, they can take it up with the executives who have been pocketing their payrises.
I can understand that. The next best option is a second-hand phone, which will also help with your financial problem. However keep in mind that Fairphone are offering a minimum of support for 8 years (and aiming for 10) so it may work out as less overall depending on what you normally spend on a phone.
That was my thought as well. I am unfortunately not able to afford an expensive phone if it won't last significantly longer than a regular. But then again, my Xiaomi phone became unusable after about 2, maybe 3 years I think. It was just to unbearably slow. So ok, it's about 150-200€ every 2 years - maybe 700€ for 5 wouldn't be that bad then. I also saw there is something like a subscription thing where you pay per month?
There is an official subscription called Fairphone Easy being offered in the Netherlands exclusively. For other European counties there's Commown, but it's pretty expensive.
The big draw for me is that it's modular and easily repairable. If you crack the screen, the battery life gets worse, or whatever else, you can replace it without too much issue. With the relative stop of phones getting better over the years (not saying they need to either, because they do everything that I want and way more, which is mostly just browsing the internet/Lemmy) I'm much more looking for something I can just use for many years instead of replacing every year or two.
Just wish it had a US release...
Fairphone 4 is sold and supported in NA, hope they will carry fairphone 5 as well: https://mander.xyz/comment/2699680
Nice 👍
Wish they sold it in the U.S.
I'm pretty sure I got this link from somewhere on their website, but here is a company that ships to the US. https://murena.com/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena-fairphone-5-fr/
At that link:
Yeah the place i linked does a cool thing where they degoogle it. Seems interesting.
Sure as hell not.
Also:
At this point, they're just following the trend.
It's not bigger, it's even a bit thinner than fairphone 4. Screen is slightly bigger though
With bigger they probably didn't mean the thickness, but it's size. Width and height. Personally I wouldn't even mind if it would be thicker.
10.5mm thick.
Fairphone 4 was 10.5mm thick.
Much thinner, yes.
Why wouldn't they? Their goal is to create a fair phone. Not a niche phone for a few geeks.
Jack isn't really a niche thing. It's as mainstream as it gets.
Because that few geeks is their actual market right now.
Yes, and I'm still a little surprised, even after the 4.
Are they really aiming for mainstream consumers? Because, I don't know, but I don't think they reach mainstream people at all.
Who they reach is those who are explicitly searching for this kind, techies, and they also have pretty different needs than the mainstream.
I mean, I think it's ok that they are making phones like these.
But what's weird is that they are not making phones for techies, who are their current audience, as I see.
I understand that it's costly to have different variants, but at least there would be 2 or 3, which are actually distinct in their features, for the different audiences. No need for different SoC, but like there's this one for the mainstream when that catches on. But then another for techies with jack, a smaller and normal screen (which means square, without camera hole, front camera is distinct if there at all) and less cameras on the back, maybe other diffs too like IR blaster or double sim and microSD. It could also have a different look, like shiny instead of glossy. I mean, it's a different audienve, the preferred looks will be most probably be different too.. and while I don't dislike how the non-screen parts of the 5 look like, it's not my cup of tea.
And not including charger which you of course can buy for extra €25. It would be fair if the charger was free with every phone. Make it optional if you want to claim it's because of environment, but make it free if someone wants it with your phone.
In Europe, next year, every phone will need to use usb-c. Since you're probably not using multiple phones at once, having more than one charger is a waste of BOTH ressources and money. Having the charger separate BUT with the price included in the phone's (because let's be realistic, there is no such thing as 'free' in the mobile market, just fees you don't see) would just raise the phone's price for everyone (including myself).
So I'll have to disagree. Having the phone NOT bundled with a charger is fighting both an economical and environemental waste.
Their website doesn't seem to specify which GSM bands it has (simply "More Bands and Band-Combinations for better reception"). I want to know how much of a given provider's spectrum I'd be missing out on trying to sneak one of these to the states.
Fairphone 4:
4G supported bands: B1/B2/B3/B4/B5/B7/B8/B12/B18/B19/B20/B28/B32/B38/B40/B41/B71
5G supported bands: n1/n3/n5/n7/n8/n20/n28/n38/n41/n71/n77/n78
Fairphone 5:
4G supported bands: B1/B2/B3/B4/B5/B7/B8/B12/B20/B28/B32/B38/B40/B41/B42/B48/B66/B71
5G supported bands: n1/n2/n3/n5/n7/n8/n20/n28/n38/n41/n48/n66/n71/n77/n78
Relevant comment about Fairphone 4 in the USA
TL;DR: By adding band 66, Fairphone 5 has better compatibility with cellular network providers in the USA. Band 48 also gives better compatibility with Verizon. T-Mobile is still the best for Fairphone in the USA.
Thanks! Yeah, it looks like it covers T-mobile minus the GHZ/ mmWave bands, which is good for me. A solid consider, especially if they (eventually) drag it over to the states like the Fairphone 5.
This is a preorder, not actual release.
it's better than nothing right? 😂
I know what you mean, but because you've allowed yourself to miss my point completely - I'll do the same.
No, it is not, in fact, better. Nothing would be better, because we would not have a false impression of the situation.
Anyway I preordered
I sort of wish I could justify it, but my current phone is more than capable.
My current phone is a Lenovo P2 from 2016. I'm waiting 7 years for this upgrade.
still waiting for the next unfairphone release
September 12th for the new iPhone.
a day after the
This is a pretty great phone, I just wouldn't spend this much on a phone. Even if it lasts let's say 6 years, I can buy 3-4 mid range androids at this price & as the years go by they could be far better than this one near the end.
Also while Iphones are really hard to repair, they do last very long & there are people out there who can replace my iphone battery for like $40 and it too would last 5-6 years. (a recent enough refurbished SE for example)
Something tells me you missed the point of the Fairphone...
I think a very small percentage of users would justify a purchase on repair-ability & sustainability alone (privacy is not it!), if it does not save them at least a little money in the long run and as things are it does not. If it was just a bit cheaper they could sell 10x as many units & normal people like me would be happy. I think this is reasonable to ask for, yes the phone is more expensive to make, but software support is not nearly as expensive as you think. Android is very easy to update and port these days, sure it's like 4 engineer salaries to keep some degree of testing running alongside development, but if they sold more devices, then the relative cost would go way down.
Then again, if they can maintain profitability by targeting that niche market it's good for them, I just wish someone took 'right to repair' & 'right to own' to the masses.
The problem is, paying fair wages, sourcing fair materials und make sure the phone ist repairable and lasts longer will always be more expensive than let's say Xiaomi. If the phone lasts for example six years instead of the usual two they will only sell a third of the phones other manufactures will sell, even if they reach the same customer base.
If it a) comes to the US, and b) comes with stock Android out of the box, I might get it for my next phone. Currently leaning toward a Pixel with Graphene.
b) is already given and a) depends on whether you'll find someone to bring it to you.
b) is not already given. The only company that brought the FP4 to the US loads it with /e/.
Which you can remove easily. Or just organize someone buying itv in Europe.
This is going to be my next phone. I cant wait to get out of the mainstream phone market. I barely use my phone for anything but browsing the web so it shouldbe fine.
Me too! I'm using my phone for more than browsing, but it will my next phone!
Fairphone Fold when?
Fairphold
That's what I want to see. Real choice in smartphones.
I wonder if IP55 is enough to mount to motorcycle handlebars in heavy rain.
Doubt it but for that use an otterbox case or similar would be your best friend, hell nowadays you can mount phones within a waterproof bag.
Doesn't seem like there are any waterproof cases for the 4, so I doubt we will see any for the 5. Maybe more likely now that the phone is available in the US at least. Not a fan of the waterproof bag idea myself.
At least my tank bag has the option for a waterproof cell phone pocket though, I doubt the touch screen would work through the thick plastic. Never tried it because I don't have the pouch required to keep the phone in place on the bag.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=waterproof+case+fairphone+4&crid=2JFUZZS054163&sprefix=waterproof+case+fairphone+4%2Caps%2C2016&ref=nb_sb_noss
??????????
That's not what I mean when I talk about a case, I mean something I can keep on all of the time. Something like an otterbox fre would be more appropriate. Or the old lifeproof cases like I had for my iPhone 4S. I live in a climate where it is pretty much always raining. My Pixel 3 can get drenched to the point you cant even use the touch screen anymore with no issues. Plus it can mount straight to my handlebars with a quadlock case instead of having to put on my tank bag and strap it to that.
Oh wow, that sounds like an infinitely better experience.
Does OtterBox make cases for Fairphone?
Not the literal brand, no, but there are dozens of knockoff waterproof cases for exactly fairphone 4 on amazon.
Edit: No.
Well, IPx5 is technically water resistant for water jets and up to 12.5 liters per minute. I think that sounds enough to be used it rain. I also saw some reviews of other devices that even IPx4 is fine in rain.
Looks pretty nice tbh! Probably going to stick to my current phone a few more years until it stops being updated but if I manage to break it this might just be the replacement.
Wish it was available here in India. i would have totally bought this for my father. Repairing these phones is better than buying new ones when he barely does anything other than WhatsApp, youtube and calls.
Repairing has generally been better than buying new for 98+% of cases in the last 5 years or so.
Nah these glue shut phones are pain in ass. Phones need battery replacement after 3 years don't want to go to a service center for a simple job.
I didn't mean in the sense that it's been more practical. I was replying more to the idea that repairing being better isn't dependent on a phone getting very light usage which is what they seemed to be impying.
Very few new phone features released in the last 5 years or so add very much real value for very many people.