The EVs the government really ought to be subsidizing are electric bicycles, not cars.
Right? I wish more people would consider the product life cycle analysis of what they want to purchase. Virtue signaling doesn't help, and nor does more scrap ending up in a landfill at the end of the cradle to grave trip.
I'd love an E bike! It would be great to take the train into the city for me and use it to get around. I haven't been able to afford insurance and still don't have a driver's license. It'd save me a killing and allow me to actually save my money than have it guzzled up by gas, car maintenance, and overall way less hassle for me. I'd rather not have to worry about features eventually getting pay walled by the shitfotainment system...
and mopeds, electric mopeds are fucking sweet.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy one this next spring
Why? So they can oppress people who have mobility issues? Why is it that every single time some small brained Fuck Cars person posts, it's horribly and insultingly ableist?
Biking in the Netherlands, you regularly see people with different mobility devices riding in the bike lanes. That's because bike lanes are also for people with mobility issues. The "anti-car is ableist" argument is actually itself ableist because a lot of people with mobility issues actually can't drive either. Continued investment in car infrastructure vs bike infrastructure traps these people at home.
If you gave a shit about people with mobility issues you'd know how dumb that statement is.
Last year, my sister had her driver's license suspended because of a medical condition, but she's still perfectly capable of riding a bike. But the problem is our societal assumption of cars-for-all-whether-you-like-it-or-not means her neighborhood street design is extremely hostile to her getting around by bike safely, and it's way too sprawling and car-dependent to walk anywhere. There's also no public transit within a reasonable walking distance.
So I might ask you: Do you believe people like my sister deserve the same right to mobility as the rest of us? If so, why support a system that make life actively hostile to her and people like her? You act as if disabilities are a monolith, and that cars are only ever their saviors, as if cars are never the thing making life actively more difficult for many people.
You do realize that cars and car centric infrastructure make it harder for disabled people to get places right? You do realize that public transport is infinitly more beneficial to the disabled than cars are right?
What a pathetic attempt at trolling.
First of all, nothing I wrote was ableist and you fucking know it.
Second, you say that as if subsidizing cars isn't itself ableist, since there are plenty of disabled folks who can't drive and therefore rely on infrastructure that accommodates alternatives like transit and walking.
In reality, subsidizing biking doesn't affect the disabled in any way (except possibly to help them by encouraging better lanes and ramps that can be used by both bicycles and wheelchairs). In contrast, further subsidizing car-centrism very much hurts them and you damn well know it.
Car infra is the most ableist thing in transportation you idiot.
Try being vision impaired and driving. Try being in a wheelchair and getting down the average American street. Try having a limp and crossing a large intersection in 20 seconds. Try being an entirely able bodied person and getting to the other side of a highway that cuts through your city.
Is this ai generated ? or is it just poorly photoshoped because there's a lot of texture detail missing from the image
Edit: it also looks like someone told it to make Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and it created a Asian-European version of her because the face seems to similar
100% AI
Yeah, I thought it was just over smooth, but fuuuck.
Look at 1st girls teeth in 1st pic. They get bigger from left to right, despite the camera angle. 3rd pic, normal size.
Also. See the glasses bridge between 1&3, changes shape, weorrd spot in eye on 3
In the 2nd panel, her hand has 5 knuckles
Look at the top right image. She has like 7 fingers
Electric cars are still a 3 ton object you'll needlessly try to dispose of in 5 years.
Electric cars are here to save the car companies, not the environment.
Mine weighs 1.5 tons and is going strongly into it's sixth year of existence at about 95% capacity left. 3/4 of the year I'm driving it exclusively using power from my own roof. It uses about 14kWh/100km which is the equivalent of about 1.3 Liters of Gasoline. I fail to see how all of this is not an advantage.
You fail to see how basing an economy on the premise of (almost) everyone relying on 1.5ton machine to get around? I fail to see what's so difficult to see
While relatively better, it's still incredibly wasteful
So, what do we do with this insight? Like, right now?
We keep complaining, obviously.
buy a moped?
I have an electric bike for those instances where I only need to transport myself and a backpack. But then again, I've got a few hectars of forest to take care of, family within a 100km radius and a girlfriend and a dog, so riding my bike is not always an option.
Yeah I am not doing that again. It was fun when I was single but not so much when you have kids. Yes I have done the sidecar thing and yes I have been to regions of the world where this is the norm. Not doing it again, all it takes is one accident and my family will be dead.
Encourage investment in public transit.
Yes, a noble idea, sure, but what do I do now with the ressources available to me? I am not a politician, people here laugh about the green party because most of them are farmers, land owners and factory workers, so voting green has some sort of meaning for the stats but doesn't impact anything in local politics. I don't own a company, I'm not responsible for public transport or any decisions related to it and I'm not rich enough for outright bribery lobbyism, so what I can do is:
turn most of my appliances to running on electricity
make as much electricity as possible locally from renewables
Hence, electric cars. Oh yeah, and taking the bike when possible, I do that.
Thatâs awesome, but how much does a car + charger + home batteries + solar roof cost upfront? I know it will eventually pay itself off.
I would love to go the same path but I know the upfront cost of all of this stuff can be pretty insane
Home batteries, wallbox for the cars (honestly, those are just fancy plugs with some switching logic) and panels was about 30kâŹ, heatpump and floor heating was about 60kâŹ. The heatpump helps with using even more of my own energy. Currently I'm almost 100% self sufficient (including mobility, except for lonmg range drives) between the middle of march and the middle of october, which is okay. At current inflation rates all this will have paid for itself in about 18 years in comparison to more traditional versions of all of it.
5 years??? You change cars every 5 years?
Me love traaaiins!
1 word: Batteries
Got any stats for that or is it just the usual anti-EV BS where you equate EVs to cellphones? No? Of course you donât and are just making shit up.
Anti-EV? The fuck are you talking about this is anti car dependance.
Iâm referring to the âdispose of in 5 yearsâ comment, as if EVs are easily outmoded throwaway tech like cellphones.
A fairly standard anti-EV comment, often paired with the âworse for the environmentâ comment.
Not only does pink girl have 5 knuckles where one would expect to find only 4, but she's also somehow in the drivers seat at the same time as Glasses. And she's wearing her backpack while also seated.
Man, AI sucks.
90+% of the AI generated content is just straight garbage.
I don't get why people are so obsessed with it to be honest.
I got AI to generate an image very similar to a piece of digital artwork I did, based on a description. In the space of 10 or so seconds, it created something that looks much better than the piece that took me like 4 hours to do. And I think it really captured the mood and spirit of what I originally made.
I think AI can generate some really excellent pieces, sometimes it just takes a few regenerations and changes to your description prompt. Although it's not perfect, it's become pretty amazing IMO.
Give it time, soon you won't be able to tell the difference and that is honestly the scary part.
AI generated memes are truly the nadir of comedy
I don't drive a car, so where's my money for saving the planet? Where are my rebates for shoes and bikes?
Subsidizing the car industry is indeed dumb. I don't think it's hurting the economy though, as the goal is to continue to sell and replace millions of cars. Still, the infrastructure for cars is probably costing us much more on the long term though. Maintenance of expressways, space for parkings, and other infra for cars costs billions.
Just replacing a single expressway interchange in my city cost 4.3 billion! For ONE interchange.
So again, where are the rebates for people taking public transit? Where are the investments in public transit? Why is it only on the condition of BUYING A CAR?
Worth noting that the recent Infrastructure bill passed under Biden includes $108 billion for public transportation (Link). This is much larger than the $7.5B set aside for electric vehicles.
As much as I despise our car-centric infrastructure, climate change is a large enough threat that we should seriously consider and pursue multiple avenues of decreasing our emissions as fast as possible. Fully transitioning away from auto-dominant transportation in the US is, frankly, not realistic in a timely manner with the public support and resources available. Not only will transportation infrastructure need changing, but even the design of our cities. So while we should pursue broader public transportation, we should also pursue other initiatives with high likelihood of broad acceptance and rapid implementation. Electric vehicles seems to be one such initiative.
REI is leading an initiative to give tax incentives for electric bikes. Seems like they are the main voice behind it though and I don't dare to hope.
There are absolutely incentives - tax credits and rebates - for buying electric bikes in some areas. My state is offering $500 off any ebike purchase.
The auto industry is not being subsidized by consumer incentives. The auto industry is being subsidized by tax credits whenever they build a new facility, which is still arguably dumb. Consumer incentives are designed to get the average citizen to buy an EV over an ICE vehicle. The consumer is gonna buy a car anyway - someone in the market for a car isn't going to buy a bike, even an ebike, based off of price. They're buying a mode of transportation based off of lifestyle. Many simply can't commute to work via bike or public transportation, and if a credit gets them to buy an EV over an ICE vehicle, this is a net benefit.
The solution to public transportation is not to attempt to disincentivize or punish car drivers, then build mass transit. Gotta build the mass transit first. The financial incentives for people taking mass transit are the fact that the most expensive mass transit in the US costs ~$1,500/year. The cost of owning an operating the average car in the US is ~$10,700/year. Yes, build more mass transit to free us from being slaved to expensive automobiles! But until then, preventing incentives for greener vehicles that would be purchased by those who have no choice is just shooting yourself in the foot.
We can deal with microplastics after greenhouse gases. They're nowhere near equally bad.
I bought a 2002 Honda insight. One of the first hybrids, except the electric motor went out, so it's all gas now. Still got slapped with an extra $150 so called "hybrid tax" so the state can subsidize a lower usage of gas that they would have received tax on. Literally incentivizes gasoline vehicles. What the fuck?
That's a badly designed piece of legislation.
It's blatant corruption working perfectly as designed.
At least youâre getting 50+ MPG. I want a ZE1 insight so badâŚ
imagine how many e-bikes you could buy for $7500
three good ones
My first one was $400, and still works just fine, I just left it in another state. The one I have now was $1200. Admittedly I got the first one for a steal in 2018, and prices have more than doubled since then.
$2500 gets you the top of the line, not just a good E-bike.
2.5/10.
Not a strong effort.
Someone explain who's the good lad here?
That, and also why it looks (and possibly is) generated by an AI?
No it isnât, itâs perfectly normal to have the rearview mirror on the side window
And door cards that change color and handle placement.
Because itâs cheap and ubiquitous
Off? That's not how tax credits work
Though there are governments who give you money
strawman
Also, the government didn't "give" you $7500 "because it's electric." You got a tax rebate because of the bargaining of the UAW.
The rebate was in place and the UAW was negotiating to only have it apply to American made cars. That's not the same as them creating it.
But the rebate has been in place for about a year now. UAW strike just started
TIL the UAW didn't exist until last month
I swear, every time I hear this âcars are killing the economyâ shit, itâs from some no-car-having-ass twat thatâs going to ask me for a ride later that afternoon
Electric cars are actually bad for the American economy thoughâŚ
Each one takes less labor to build and the overwhelming majority of factories capable of producing ev batteries are overseas.
So while we can make evs domestically with less labor we now have fewer jobs and one of the most expensive parts of the car is being imported anyway, exerting downward pressure on the domestic workers in assembly.
So every electric car that replaces an internal combustion car is reducing the gdp in measurable terms.
Not that gdp is a good measure, but thereâs a hard undeniable kernel of truth to the statement that electric cars are bad for the economy and specifically in a way that hurts working class Americans most.
You sound like an economist. They cost less to build and maintain. Which means the money is freed up to do other things. Only an economist would want to bailout inefficiency.
What will that money be doing?
how are the ostensible productivity gains from evs going to be used to help american workers?
it's hard to believe that the reduced demand for skilled tooling, die and machining labor will translate into some kind of gain for the communities and people that rely on that work to survive.
and we've seen how anemic reskilling efforts are and how the usual boilerplate response, "learn to code", is completely defunct with the combination of LLMs and the cheap overseas junior dev labor pool.
american conservatives are trotting out these arguments to appeal to people who feel like they're being forced to give up their lifestyle (driving cars with cheap gas), and materially are actually being heavily pressured to get evs without fully understanding the economics of this new class of Second Most Expensive Thing Most Americans Will Ever Buy, but that doesn't mean that the realities that appeal is built on aren't there.
Yeah an economist. Backwards ass logic of having more money in your pocket means you are poorer. A car factory is not a work program, it is a factory to make cars. Technological progress shouldn't be crippled because some special interest group paid you to convince every single person to spend more money for an inferior good.
Goose chasing meme: more money in whose pocket, motherfucker?
Seriously. Weâre talking about shitcanning a third of the us auto jobs. Whoâs gonna get the money from that nightmare?
How can we expect those communities to take it lying down when they saw what happened and continues to happen to coal country?
This isnât fake made up handwavey bullshit. These are the real effects of domestic ev production and we canât just say âanyone who opposed evs is a conservative piece of garbage or a head-in-ass neoliberal economist.â
-The proceeding was a paid for commentary by economists of UAW.
No really, the parts/labor breakdown of an ev skews farther to parts than an ice car. Who gets that money in their pocket in exchange for all the jobs?
What happens to the families and communities that depend on the jobs that are going away?
Have we learned anything from the failed reskilling of Appalachian coal country?
Come on man it is Friday night. You can punch out. UAW isnt paying you to work the weekends
Come on, is the best insult you got that I sound like itâs my job to defend workers?
Really and truly, where will the labor cost savings go? Thereâs going to be one, so who gets it? How will that be enforced?
Whatâs gonna be done for the people whose labor isnât needed anymore? Bear in mind weâre not just talking about the protagonists of the now forty year old song âAllentownâ, but entire industries that support ice car production like die making and machining. Surely we have some idea of what happens here aside from âtheyre fucked, some peopleâs blood and bonemeal grease the rails of progressâ.
You canât just handwave away the real effects of changes in productivity in the name of abstractly defined technological progress.
If you canât seriously engage with the effects of a transition to producing electric cars then itâs no wonder American conservatives are making so much hay over it.
You want to know how I know this isn't true?
Because if it were, the big car makers would be rushing the hell out of pushing for killing off ICE cars and switching to 100% EVs like yesterday.
But yet most of them have put out a mediocre effort at best, offering maybe 2 models to attract the younger market. And even then, good luck actually getting one. You are on a wait list for at least a year, have to deal with dealerships that haven't bothered to learn anything about them, and if they do miraculously have one on the lot, they've been using it as a loaner car, so it's not even brand new. And while I was shopping around, I ran into multiple instances of the dealership taking the $7500 tax credit for themselves(because the tax credit is tied to the car, not to you buying it) and then having the gall to also mark up the sticker price, "due to high demand".
Then other brands have basically outright resisted making them, or will make them, but it seems like they are only doing it to say they are going green. They'll make like 2000 of the the dopeyiest looking car they can and trickle them out, make no effort to advertise them or mass produce them in any meaningful way. Then claim, "the demand just isn't there".
Like if what you said was true, we would be seeing things like dodge challengers, Ford mustangs(ones that actually look like a mustang, not just a crossover with a horse logo), dodge rams, Ford f150s(yes these exist, but they are trickleing them out, so good luck getting one), jeep Wranglers. Nobody is taking their tried and true cars and making them electric. Well VW is, but not in America with things like the golf and GTI lines.
Iâm gonna go backwards here:
We donât see lots of high drag coefficient evs that look like mustangs because all the features of the mustang that make it look boxy and aggressive are there to accommodate the reality of making air go places itâs needed, across the radiator and into the engine.
We donât see ev jeeps because jeeps are (or used to be) relatively lightweight, high torque vehicles whose design choices favor ground clearance over aerodynamics. Evs are relatively heavyweight and benefit most from low ground clearance and good aerodynamics.
When automakers try to put those designs in an ev buyers react negatively to them, to the point that they have to have ersatz engine noise to be accepted.
Indeed the wrangler and mustang are so disconnected from normal buying trends that they kept stick shift long after the industry wide move to automatics!
Those are popular models, but theyâre extreme outliers in terms of design.
Let me address the top part of your reply with a question: if evs are so great and such a slam dunk why has Toyota, famous for not making the wrong choices, stuck with hybrids up until very recently?
Post is funny, but AI memes are weird
The EVs the government really ought to be subsidizing are electric bicycles, not cars.
Right? I wish more people would consider the product life cycle analysis of what they want to purchase. Virtue signaling doesn't help, and nor does more scrap ending up in a landfill at the end of the cradle to grave trip.
I'd love an E bike! It would be great to take the train into the city for me and use it to get around. I haven't been able to afford insurance and still don't have a driver's license. It'd save me a killing and allow me to actually save my money than have it guzzled up by gas, car maintenance, and overall way less hassle for me. I'd rather not have to worry about features eventually getting pay walled by the shitfotainment system...
and mopeds, electric mopeds are fucking sweet.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy one this next spring
Why? So they can oppress people who have mobility issues? Why is it that every single time some small brained Fuck Cars person posts, it's horribly and insultingly ableist?
Biking in the Netherlands, you regularly see people with different mobility devices riding in the bike lanes. That's because bike lanes are also for people with mobility issues. The "anti-car is ableist" argument is actually itself ableist because a lot of people with mobility issues actually can't drive either. Continued investment in car infrastructure vs bike infrastructure traps these people at home.
https://youtu.be/B9ly7JjqEb0?si=c-Ah66UjEBhEaCuF
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/B9ly7JjqEb0?si=c-Ah66UjEBhEaCuF
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
If you gave a shit about people with mobility issues you'd know how dumb that statement is.
Last year, my sister had her driver's license suspended because of a medical condition, but she's still perfectly capable of riding a bike. But the problem is our societal assumption of cars-for-all-whether-you-like-it-or-not means her neighborhood street design is extremely hostile to her getting around by bike safely, and it's way too sprawling and car-dependent to walk anywhere. There's also no public transit within a reasonable walking distance.
So I might ask you: Do you believe people like my sister deserve the same right to mobility as the rest of us? If so, why support a system that make life actively hostile to her and people like her? You act as if disabilities are a monolith, and that cars are only ever their saviors, as if cars are never the thing making life actively more difficult for many people.
You do realize that cars and car centric infrastructure make it harder for disabled people to get places right? You do realize that public transport is infinitly more beneficial to the disabled than cars are right?
What a pathetic attempt at trolling.
First of all, nothing I wrote was ableist and you fucking know it.
Second, you say that as if subsidizing cars isn't itself ableist, since there are plenty of disabled folks who can't drive and therefore rely on infrastructure that accommodates alternatives like transit and walking.
In reality, subsidizing biking doesn't affect the disabled in any way (except possibly to help them by encouraging better lanes and ramps that can be used by both bicycles and wheelchairs). In contrast, further subsidizing car-centrism very much hurts them and you damn well know it.
Car infra is the most ableist thing in transportation you idiot.
Try being vision impaired and driving. Try being in a wheelchair and getting down the average American street. Try having a limp and crossing a large intersection in 20 seconds. Try being an entirely able bodied person and getting to the other side of a highway that cuts through your city.
Is this ai generated ? or is it just poorly photoshoped because there's a lot of texture detail missing from the image
Edit: it also looks like someone told it to make Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and it created a Asian-European version of her because the face seems to similar
100% AI
Yeah, I thought it was just over smooth, but fuuuck.
Look at 1st girls teeth in 1st pic. They get bigger from left to right, despite the camera angle. 3rd pic, normal size. Also. See the glasses bridge between 1&3, changes shape, weorrd spot in eye on 3
In the 2nd panel, her hand has 5 knuckles
Look at the top right image. She has like 7 fingers
I thought it was too smooth and the rearview mirror on the third image proved it. What are you doing there??? đ
I didn't even notice that, it's lie my mind intentionally ignored it because it was wrong
Her glasses change between panels
Electric cars are still a 3 ton object you'll needlessly try to dispose of in 5 years.
Electric cars are here to save the car companies, not the environment.
Mine weighs 1.5 tons and is going strongly into it's sixth year of existence at about 95% capacity left. 3/4 of the year I'm driving it exclusively using power from my own roof. It uses about 14kWh/100km which is the equivalent of about 1.3 Liters of Gasoline. I fail to see how all of this is not an advantage.
You fail to see how basing an economy on the premise of (almost) everyone relying on 1.5ton machine to get around? I fail to see what's so difficult to see
While relatively better, it's still incredibly wasteful
So, what do we do with this insight? Like, right now?
We keep complaining, obviously.
buy a moped?
I have an electric bike for those instances where I only need to transport myself and a backpack. But then again, I've got a few hectars of forest to take care of, family within a 100km radius and a girlfriend and a dog, so riding my bike is not always an option.
Yeah I am not doing that again. It was fun when I was single but not so much when you have kids. Yes I have done the sidecar thing and yes I have been to regions of the world where this is the norm. Not doing it again, all it takes is one accident and my family will be dead.
Encourage investment in public transit.
Yes, a noble idea, sure, but what do I do now with the ressources available to me? I am not a politician, people here laugh about the green party because most of them are farmers, land owners and factory workers, so voting green has some sort of meaning for the stats but doesn't impact anything in local politics. I don't own a company, I'm not responsible for public transport or any decisions related to it and I'm not rich enough for outright
briberylobbyism, so what I can do is:Hence, electric cars. Oh yeah, and taking the bike when possible, I do that.
Thatâs awesome, but how much does a car + charger + home batteries + solar roof cost upfront? I know it will eventually pay itself off.
I would love to go the same path but I know the upfront cost of all of this stuff can be pretty insane
Home batteries, wallbox for the cars (honestly, those are just fancy plugs with some switching logic) and panels was about 30kâŹ, heatpump and floor heating was about 60kâŹ. The heatpump helps with using even more of my own energy. Currently I'm almost 100% self sufficient (including mobility, except for lonmg range drives) between the middle of march and the middle of october, which is okay. At current inflation rates all this will have paid for itself in about 18 years in comparison to more traditional versions of all of it.
5 years??? You change cars every 5 years?
Me love traaaiins!
1 word: Batteries
Got any stats for that or is it just the usual anti-EV BS where you equate EVs to cellphones? No? Of course you donât and are just making shit up.
Anti-EV? The fuck are you talking about this is anti car dependance.
Iâm referring to the âdispose of in 5 yearsâ comment, as if EVs are easily outmoded throwaway tech like cellphones.
A fairly standard anti-EV comment, often paired with the âworse for the environmentâ comment.
Not only does pink girl have 5 knuckles where one would expect to find only 4, but she's also somehow in the drivers seat at the same time as Glasses. And she's wearing her backpack while also seated.
Man, AI sucks.
90+% of the AI generated content is just straight garbage.
I don't get why people are so obsessed with it to be honest.
I got AI to generate an image very similar to a piece of digital artwork I did, based on a description. In the space of 10 or so seconds, it created something that looks much better than the piece that took me like 4 hours to do. And I think it really captured the mood and spirit of what I originally made.
I think AI can generate some really excellent pieces, sometimes it just takes a few regenerations and changes to your description prompt. Although it's not perfect, it's become pretty amazing IMO.
90% of everything is garbage. Sturgeon's law: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law
Give it time, soon you won't be able to tell the difference and that is honestly the scary part.
AI generated memes are truly the nadir of comedy
I don't drive a car, so where's my money for saving the planet? Where are my rebates for shoes and bikes?
Subsidizing the car industry is indeed dumb. I don't think it's hurting the economy though, as the goal is to continue to sell and replace millions of cars. Still, the infrastructure for cars is probably costing us much more on the long term though. Maintenance of expressways, space for parkings, and other infra for cars costs billions.
Just replacing a single expressway interchange in my city cost 4.3 billion! For ONE interchange.
So again, where are the rebates for people taking public transit? Where are the investments in public transit? Why is it only on the condition of BUYING A CAR?
Worth noting that the recent Infrastructure bill passed under Biden includes $108 billion for public transportation (Link). This is much larger than the $7.5B set aside for electric vehicles.
As much as I despise our car-centric infrastructure, climate change is a large enough threat that we should seriously consider and pursue multiple avenues of decreasing our emissions as fast as possible. Fully transitioning away from auto-dominant transportation in the US is, frankly, not realistic in a timely manner with the public support and resources available. Not only will transportation infrastructure need changing, but even the design of our cities. So while we should pursue broader public transportation, we should also pursue other initiatives with high likelihood of broad acceptance and rapid implementation. Electric vehicles seems to be one such initiative.
REI is leading an initiative to give tax incentives for electric bikes. Seems like they are the main voice behind it though and I don't dare to hope.
There are absolutely incentives - tax credits and rebates - for buying electric bikes in some areas. My state is offering $500 off any ebike purchase.
The auto industry is not being subsidized by consumer incentives. The auto industry is being subsidized by tax credits whenever they build a new facility, which is still arguably dumb. Consumer incentives are designed to get the average citizen to buy an EV over an ICE vehicle. The consumer is gonna buy a car anyway - someone in the market for a car isn't going to buy a bike, even an ebike, based off of price. They're buying a mode of transportation based off of lifestyle. Many simply can't commute to work via bike or public transportation, and if a credit gets them to buy an EV over an ICE vehicle, this is a net benefit.
The solution to public transportation is not to attempt to disincentivize or punish car drivers, then build mass transit. Gotta build the mass transit first. The financial incentives for people taking mass transit are the fact that the most expensive mass transit in the US costs ~$1,500/year. The cost of owning an operating the average car in the US is ~$10,700/year. Yes, build more mass transit to free us from being slaved to expensive automobiles! But until then, preventing incentives for greener vehicles that would be purchased by those who have no choice is just shooting yourself in the foot.
both are destroying the environment https://www.thedrive.com/news/tire-dust-makes-up-the-majority-of-ocean-microplastics-study-finds
We can deal with microplastics after greenhouse gases. They're nowhere near equally bad.
I bought a 2002 Honda insight. One of the first hybrids, except the electric motor went out, so it's all gas now. Still got slapped with an extra $150 so called "hybrid tax" so the state can subsidize a lower usage of gas that they would have received tax on. Literally incentivizes gasoline vehicles. What the fuck?
That's a badly designed piece of legislation.
It's blatant corruption working perfectly as designed.
At least youâre getting 50+ MPG. I want a ZE1 insight so badâŚ
imagine how many e-bikes you could buy for $7500
three good ones
My first one was $400, and still works just fine, I just left it in another state. The one I have now was $1200. Admittedly I got the first one for a steal in 2018, and prices have more than doubled since then.
$2500 gets you the top of the line, not just a good E-bike.
2.5/10.
Not a strong effort.
Someone explain who's the good lad here?
That, and also why it looks (and possibly is) generated by an AI?
No it isnât, itâs perfectly normal to have the rearview mirror on the side window
And door cards that change color and handle placement.
Because itâs cheap and ubiquitous
Off? That's not how tax credits work
Though there are governments who give you money
Also, the government didn't "give" you $7500 "because it's electric." You got a tax rebate because of the bargaining of the UAW.
The rebate was in place and the UAW was negotiating to only have it apply to American made cars. That's not the same as them creating it.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/uaw-wants-ev-tax-incentives-revised-require-us-assembly-2021-04-30/
Source me to change my mind.
UAW ruining thing with their protectionismđ
But the rebate has been in place for about a year now. UAW strike just started
TIL the UAW didn't exist until last month
I swear, every time I hear this âcars are killing the economyâ shit, itâs from some no-car-having-ass twat thatâs going to ask me for a ride later that afternoon
Electric cars are actually bad for the American economy thoughâŚ
Each one takes less labor to build and the overwhelming majority of factories capable of producing ev batteries are overseas.
So while we can make evs domestically with less labor we now have fewer jobs and one of the most expensive parts of the car is being imported anyway, exerting downward pressure on the domestic workers in assembly.
So every electric car that replaces an internal combustion car is reducing the gdp in measurable terms.
Not that gdp is a good measure, but thereâs a hard undeniable kernel of truth to the statement that electric cars are bad for the economy and specifically in a way that hurts working class Americans most.
You sound like an economist. They cost less to build and maintain. Which means the money is freed up to do other things. Only an economist would want to bailout inefficiency.
What will that money be doing?
how are the ostensible productivity gains from evs going to be used to help american workers?
it's hard to believe that the reduced demand for skilled tooling, die and machining labor will translate into some kind of gain for the communities and people that rely on that work to survive.
and we've seen how anemic reskilling efforts are and how the usual boilerplate response, "learn to code", is completely defunct with the combination of LLMs and the cheap overseas junior dev labor pool.
american conservatives are trotting out these arguments to appeal to people who feel like they're being forced to give up their lifestyle (driving cars with cheap gas), and materially are actually being heavily pressured to get evs without fully understanding the economics of this new class of Second Most Expensive Thing Most Americans Will Ever Buy, but that doesn't mean that the realities that appeal is built on aren't there.
Yeah an economist. Backwards ass logic of having more money in your pocket means you are poorer. A car factory is not a work program, it is a factory to make cars. Technological progress shouldn't be crippled because some special interest group paid you to convince every single person to spend more money for an inferior good.
Goose chasing meme: more money in whose pocket, motherfucker?
Seriously. Weâre talking about shitcanning a third of the us auto jobs. Whoâs gonna get the money from that nightmare?
How can we expect those communities to take it lying down when they saw what happened and continues to happen to coal country?
This isnât fake made up handwavey bullshit. These are the real effects of domestic ev production and we canât just say âanyone who opposed evs is a conservative piece of garbage or a head-in-ass neoliberal economist.â
-The proceeding was a paid for commentary by economists of UAW.
No really, the parts/labor breakdown of an ev skews farther to parts than an ice car. Who gets that money in their pocket in exchange for all the jobs?
What happens to the families and communities that depend on the jobs that are going away?
Have we learned anything from the failed reskilling of Appalachian coal country?
Come on man it is Friday night. You can punch out. UAW isnt paying you to work the weekends
Come on, is the best insult you got that I sound like itâs my job to defend workers?
Really and truly, where will the labor cost savings go? Thereâs going to be one, so who gets it? How will that be enforced?
Whatâs gonna be done for the people whose labor isnât needed anymore? Bear in mind weâre not just talking about the protagonists of the now forty year old song âAllentownâ, but entire industries that support ice car production like die making and machining. Surely we have some idea of what happens here aside from âtheyre fucked, some peopleâs blood and bonemeal grease the rails of progressâ.
You canât just handwave away the real effects of changes in productivity in the name of abstractly defined technological progress.
If you canât seriously engage with the effects of a transition to producing electric cars then itâs no wonder American conservatives are making so much hay over it.
You want to know how I know this isn't true?
Because if it were, the big car makers would be rushing the hell out of pushing for killing off ICE cars and switching to 100% EVs like yesterday.
But yet most of them have put out a mediocre effort at best, offering maybe 2 models to attract the younger market. And even then, good luck actually getting one. You are on a wait list for at least a year, have to deal with dealerships that haven't bothered to learn anything about them, and if they do miraculously have one on the lot, they've been using it as a loaner car, so it's not even brand new. And while I was shopping around, I ran into multiple instances of the dealership taking the $7500 tax credit for themselves(because the tax credit is tied to the car, not to you buying it) and then having the gall to also mark up the sticker price, "due to high demand".
Then other brands have basically outright resisted making them, or will make them, but it seems like they are only doing it to say they are going green. They'll make like 2000 of the the dopeyiest looking car they can and trickle them out, make no effort to advertise them or mass produce them in any meaningful way. Then claim, "the demand just isn't there".
Like if what you said was true, we would be seeing things like dodge challengers, Ford mustangs(ones that actually look like a mustang, not just a crossover with a horse logo), dodge rams, Ford f150s(yes these exist, but they are trickleing them out, so good luck getting one), jeep Wranglers. Nobody is taking their tried and true cars and making them electric. Well VW is, but not in America with things like the golf and GTI lines.
Iâm gonna go backwards here:
We donât see lots of high drag coefficient evs that look like mustangs because all the features of the mustang that make it look boxy and aggressive are there to accommodate the reality of making air go places itâs needed, across the radiator and into the engine.
We donât see ev jeeps because jeeps are (or used to be) relatively lightweight, high torque vehicles whose design choices favor ground clearance over aerodynamics. Evs are relatively heavyweight and benefit most from low ground clearance and good aerodynamics.
When automakers try to put those designs in an ev buyers react negatively to them, to the point that they have to have ersatz engine noise to be accepted.
Indeed the wrangler and mustang are so disconnected from normal buying trends that they kept stick shift long after the industry wide move to automatics!
Those are popular models, but theyâre extreme outliers in terms of design.
Let me address the top part of your reply with a question: if evs are so great and such a slam dunk why has Toyota, famous for not making the wrong choices, stuck with hybrids up until very recently?