I have a real problem with this, and I've been on both sides of it. It really doesn't do anything to help your cause by having people stuck in traffic. There are many reasons that someone could be in their car at that moment, not just commuting to or from a job. They could be on their way to a court appointment, they could have dinner in the car, they could be going to pick their child up from school, they could be on their way to a doctor's appointment, or any of a million other reasons that make this not just an inconvenience, but a complete shithead thing for someone to put someone else through. Protestors aren't making their case against the war by pissing off every person stuck in traffic, they are just being dickheads. If you want to protest a war, go hang out outside of a government building, or in front of an elected official's house. Make them feel uncomfortable, not some poor schmuck who has somewhere else to be at the moment.
Edit: Ok, I guess I need to give a peaceful example. You want to block traffic? Block the exits to the parking garage where the elected officials park downtown. Do that for a week and see how much of an impact you make. Blocking commuters is a waste of energy.
I don't think the goal is to convince the people stuck in the artificially created traffic about Gaza. I think it's to get news coverage from sites like nbcnews.com so as to raise the profile of the Gaza war so that politicians must address it. You are welcome to argue whether that's an effective strategy, but I think that's the intent.
Also, side note.. Social progress rarely comes from rule following.
Is the profile not high enough? I'm pretty sure everyone knows about it who needs to know about it. Blocking traffic isn't going to make a ceasefire happen across the world. Annoying your fellow citizens and ruining their day isn't getting any politicians to act. It's pointless. Actions must be taken against those in charge if we want to see any forward progress. Blocking traffic to protest a war is like yelling at a frycook because you want the McRib back. The actions are being aimed at the wrong people.
counterpoint: the people who would enact this change are far beyond our reach as citizens so there is no way to target them with effective protests.
Besides, some of the best way to affect policy is to A. Cost large businesses money or B. To cause general unrest over an issue. Both of these things will piss your fellow American off but this is how protests work nowadays.
I think most protestors don’t want to block cars of normal people or throw paint onto paintings or whatever. But they have to because if you look at the laws, organized protest has no bite anymore. Go ahead, annoy the politicians, they’ll just arrest your outside of their house and no one will hear about your issue.
That's the problem. No one is actually doing anything worthwhile. You are right, standing outside the mayors house will get you arrested. Do it anyway. Get arrested. You want to make big moves for your cause, do something worth being arrested over. Imagine if all of those people on the bridge yesterday had been blocking traffic to the mayors neighborhood instead. What are they gonna do, arrest a thousand people in a suburb street? That's a fucking news story. Blocking a bridge is bullshit, it carries no weight because there is nothing on the line. Congrats, you fucked up a half million people's day, I guess someone should call the genocide off, now.
counterpoint: the people who would enact this change are far beyond our reach as citizens so there is no way to target them with effective protests
Literally go to the capitols instead. Or go to their houses. Some place that actually effects them rather than complete laymen.
Seriously! Protesting has never accomplished anything ever and is totally useless unless it's done explicitly for politicians that are totally receptive and eager to assist their constituents!
They won't do that because they can and will get an armed response from three-letter agencies and LEOs. It's the same reason these absolute clowns never protest where the weapons are made and shipped from, they'll get beaten and shot, and they know it, so instead they harass everyone else.
I think it’s to get news coverage from sites like nbcnews.com so as to raise the profile of the Gaza war so that politicians must address it.
Right... because the global leaders of the world aren't already aware of what's going on. Thanks for raising awareness, guys.
It's about the public discourse. If an issue (e.g. the U.S. giving Israel weapons and enabling their war) disappears from the headlines, it's much easier for politicians to ignore it. But if the issue keeps coming up, politicians feel pressure to act--or they risk getting voted out of office. Especially during an election year.
Not sure if you are agreeing with me or not, but that is exactly what I'm saying. Right now, blocking traffic is about as easy for the "king" to ignore as anything else.
Yeah. I saw some of the posts across Lemmy trying to organize this.
There it was presented as blocking shipping ports. I thought that was odd. Wasn't sure how that was going to affect Israel, but whatever.
Then the day comes and they're doing this low effort reposting-of-a-meme-everyone-has-seen-already version of protest and I just rolled my eyes.
"Innocent people are being murdered in Palestine, so I'm going to go prevent someone that also hates what is happening from visiting their dying grandmother! That'll show 'em!"
🙄
This comment is so meta. You're literally engaging in the conversation about it right now. This means it worked... How does no one understand this? The fact of the matter is it makes the issue relevant so that it shows up on people's screens and they're forced to confront the issue and debate the protest and it becomes topical. No one wants to be stuck in traffic. I sympathize with those who were affected. But I'll give you one guess who I sympathize with more right now.
Completely agree. Blocking the average Joe driving home will get attention, but potentially for the wrong reason. I think your edit is perfect. Inconvenience those in power that can do something about it now, not someone who can really only do something when voting.
I feel bad for the people in traffic but the protestors only get to this state because of repeatedly being ignored by the government. If normal protests aren’t cutting it anymore and you don’t want to be violent then what options do you really have? They (gov) just don’t listen.
Protest where it is effective, not where it gets you the most social media clout. Blocking traffic is the protesting equivalent of a selfie. Make some noise near an elected official, and often. See how quickly they change their attitude when they are the ones being fucked with.
I would love to know what Universe you live in where quiet polite demos in out of the way places get reported on the news and come to the attention of all the other 334,912,895 people in the US that didn't see it personally.
Oh, you're right. I forgot the real point of protesting. I've been living my life thinking it's a public demonstration designed to let those in power know you are dissatisfied with how things are happening. Now I understand, though. It's performance art for the last stay at home mom in Michigan who hasn't heard about the war. We gotta get her to stop making that mayonnaise salad and start an aluminum drive for the war effort. Thanks for clearing it up. If I ever have a problem with anything in the future I'll know not to go to the person in charge, I'll just run into traffic and shake my ass at onlookers until the world changes for me. That's gonna make things a lot easier from here on out.
You should read some history and stop acting so juvenile. Peaceful non disruptive protests never accomplished shit. People died for women’s right to vote, they died for civil rights, and they died for the five day work week. A one day shutdown of a bridge is fucking nothing compared to what went down with those movements.
This is democracy at work. Liberals are all the same, pro-democracy until it gets in their way or upsets them. You don’t change power structures by asking politely.
It’s not going to get the government to listen by doing this either. It’s completely ineffective and just pisses people off and actively stops them from supporting a cause.
These clowns didn't even try a normal protest at city hall or to bother the government, the first thing they did was screw up the days of working class citizens, as usual, because they only ever take the easy way and not the way that involves any personal risk.
I fully support the cause, but this just ain't the way to effectively protest the system. I feel the same way about the climate activists throwing soup on art instalation (yes I know they are all protected, but to the average person you still look like an ignorant fucking asshole).
If you want to spur change, then you need to make it uncomfortable for your representatives to take a public position than conflicts with your ethics. Do so peacefully, but forcefully and as often as is feasible. You are much more likely to garner public support that way, and normies generally love anything that make politicians look bad.
Why peacefully? Just today the IDF attacked a playground with an airstrike killing a group of children playing in broad daylight. It would be unbelievable if there wasn't clear footage of it and numerous similar attacks. US supplied weapons, funded by our taxes, cheered on by our political establishment. Stopping traffic isn't going nearly far enough.
The objective is to appear in the News, which will result in way more people becoming aware of just how many people are against what Israel is doing in Gaza and the US Administration's support of it, which in turn will lead others to become more open about they themselves being against it since they will feel that "we are many" rather than "it's just me" - grassroots movements independent of established politicial and media networks, no matter how many potential supporters they have, must be seen in order to grow otherwise they'll just fizzle away and nothing will change.
That usually means some kind of stunt in an important and highly public place which is almost certain to affect lots of members of the public.
Barelly disturbing a handful of politicians as you suggest would not make the News unless the Press was already there for some other reason and it would still have to be some kind of stunt (think the Iraqi guy that threw his shoe at George Bush) for the Press to even mention it in the news.
Unfortunatelly in the World we live in people have to use marketing strategies to merelly be seen, more so to have soap box to be heard by the rest of the nation, especially in Theatre Of Democracy countries were the "choice" is either pre-selected A or pre-selected B, and were the Press is not at all a Pillar Of Democracy independent of the Political Pillar but is pretty much joined at the hip with Political and/or Wealth Powers.
If it had the kind of Political and Press environment were those things could just be done the way you naivelly (or maybe misleadingly) suggest, the US would be quite a different place in terms of Power, Voice and Representativeness and not one where the only electoral "choice" is between two genocide-loving presidential candidates.
The proposal states that in each city, we will identify and blockade major choke points in the economy, focusing on points of production and circulation with the aim of causing the most economic impact, as did the port shutdowns in recent months in Oakland, California and Melbourne, Australia, as just a few examples.
Hurting the rich's pocket books is the only language they respect. Now I'm not sure blocking roads is the most effective form of this tactic. Usually you use labor unions. But they're probably just working with what they have.
Convenient protests don’t do shit. They get ignored, and often not reported on at all.
People said exactly the same thing you’re saying about the civil rights movement. Which was much more disruptive than the schoolbooks teach.
Those poor schmucks also have a voice and have political power. And you can't deny the optics of the Golden Gate Bridge being closed, it's an iconic throughway. I'm not sure if there are any instantly recognizable parking garages.
So, some single mother in the Midwest is now going to do something about Gaza now? That's what we needed? Optics? Fuck. We should put up some billboards along the interstate next, that'll bring all this kids back from the dead
You all are missing then ENTIRE FUCKING POINT of a protest. It isn't to block traffic, it's to force action to be taken where none is, and no one capable of taking that action gives two squirts of chipotle if some people stood on a bridge yesterday. Fuck with the establishment, make some cunt in his comfortable office sweat.
If you knew anything about the SF Bay area, you would understand who this protest is targeting. Those people absolutely have power to influence change.
I actually wrote a very long reply to this, but then I checked your comment history, and I thought I'd be more supportive.
Look, one day, everything is going to change. Maybe not all in one day but it'll be quick. Something will happen, and you'll have to re-evaluate the way you look at the world. When that happens, take three deep breaths. Hold them. Eventually you'll pass out, and you'll be doing everyone around you a favor by not talking for however long you are unconscious for. Hopefully you'll drop your phone and it'll break, and you can take a break from social media, too.
maybe someday you'll learn that genocide is wrong and protesting it is always morally good!!
Ahh yes, I believe the old saying goes something like, "Always take the moral high ground, no matter how many people you have to step on to get there."
I dunno I mean I would normally oppose this on principle, but I do kind of agree. This does stop all local traffic at the golden gate bridge, but it doesn't really do anything to incentivize that politicians controlling the funding of israel at (mostly) the federal level to change course. Unless we maybe saw floyd-level protests happening across the nation, or something. This specific kind of protest is most effective when addressing local or state level problems, because local or state level leaders are more easily strongarmed, especially as they're about to pass bad legislation. The threat of further property damage can be used as leverage which can influence local decisions. Local protests are better used against local targets, and target selection is crucial, basically, though that applies more to mass protests, this seems more like a smaller group.
It probably would've been better to go after a lockheed martin facility, or something to that effect, but obviously that comes with a much, much greater deal of risk. Probably the softest points to push on would be something like a higher-up, or the infrastructure going into and immediately around a facility, especially with such a small group. It's not as though the locations of weapons manufacturers aren't publically known, or accessible, or that there aren't many different, small, critical pieces, including people, that go into the manufacture of advanced weaponry.
ITT- You're allowed your first amendment right to protest war crimes, just not where I can see or be inconvenienced. Because all of the civil rights and anti war protests in the past 70 years that were truly successful were very polite and inconvenienced no one.
MLK Jr. literally wrote about this exact same thing in his Letter from Birmingham jail.
that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Councilor or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: ‘I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action’; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a ‘more convenient season.’ ”
Yeah I remember reading that in college. He wasn't the bland platitudes guy high schools teach.
He was also assassinated right after he started pivoting from civil rights to economic inequality (starting the Poor People's Campaign). Funny coincidence, that.
If it were today, he would've "commited suicide" with a shot to the back of the head.
it's just not a good time guys, maybe next year when things are better!
If Americans want the protests to stop, they should stop supporting genocide.
Mm and how has the average San Franciscan contributed to a war on the other side of the planet?
The same way the average American contributed to black oppression. By being silent observers to your government's actions.
Not my government
In the same way we all do. Those weapons can't be built without a reliable economy. Interruptions in labor produce ripple effects which disrupt the atrocities of the capitalist class.
Except these morons protest everywhere except where the weapons are made and shipped from. Curious.
It is easy to condemn obvious wrongdoers, but what about the supporting cast of complicitors: business partners, employees, investors, news organizations, and others? Whether we’re aware of it or not, almost all of us have been complicit in the unethical behavior of others and have not always used ethical decision-making skills.
Unfortunately any protest in the US is at best constrained to stopping future weapons shipments to Israel. But as Netanyahu has already shown he doesn’t care what Biden has to say, the US is unlikely to be able to stop them from continuing to use the weapons they already have.
Bibi doesnt care what Biden says because Biden will never actually cut off the arm shipments.
The US could also do more like actually sanction Israel for committing genocide.
Direct action is super based.
Can't wait to watch all the redditors who mostly don't commute or don't drive have a collective aneurysm over this.
Honestly, Bay Area commuters who use that bridge regularly probably couldn't tell the difference
Haha it was definitely noticeable. I was having some some work done on my house. I'm in the peninsula and the contractors were coming from the north bay. They were aiming to get to my place by 8:30AM but they were stuck on the bridge and delayed several hours - I don't think they arrived until 12:30 or 1 PM. They said that all the cars had to back up off the bridge, go north to San Rafael, and take the 580 instead.
it goes nowhere. some wacko billionaire mansion town, some wizards house...
Is this comments section: "fuck shit up, society isn't working," vs "follow the rules when you protest, that's how you make change happen."
First Past The Post voting ensures these people remain unrepresented in the political process. We must pass electoral reform in each of our states so we can have more people represented.
Things like this are merely performative and will only make enemies, not enact change anyway
It seems to empower opposition to the cause as well. Also, in Washington this has happened enough we have legislation to increase the penalty for blocking infrastructure.
Its horrible what's happening to Palestinians why do people keep pretenting the war can't end at any moment if hamas surrenders and releases the hostages. Iran orchestrates this shit but has the far left wrapped around their finger protesting Israel and the US.
I think you meant israel and instead wrote Iran?
Full speed ahead boys 🤣
FOR THE FINAL TIME: This doesn't make people get your message! It just makes you look like an asshole for blocking traffic.
Yet you somehow, despite the yelling, got the message.
This is definitely a far greater inconvenience than having your home destroyed and watching your children starve to death. I get how these protests can be frustrating when you're just trying to go about your day, but nobody is getting fired when they can just explain that they got held up by the protest. Sure some people will fail to see the message and simply be upset with the protestors, but when there's an important cause it's impossible to cause change without some disruption.
I have a real problem with this, and I've been on both sides of it. It really doesn't do anything to help your cause by having people stuck in traffic. There are many reasons that someone could be in their car at that moment, not just commuting to or from a job. They could be on their way to a court appointment, they could have dinner in the car, they could be going to pick their child up from school, they could be on their way to a doctor's appointment, or any of a million other reasons that make this not just an inconvenience, but a complete shithead thing for someone to put someone else through. Protestors aren't making their case against the war by pissing off every person stuck in traffic, they are just being dickheads. If you want to protest a war, go hang out outside of a government building, or in front of an elected official's house. Make them feel uncomfortable, not some poor schmuck who has somewhere else to be at the moment.
Edit: Ok, I guess I need to give a peaceful example. You want to block traffic? Block the exits to the parking garage where the elected officials park downtown. Do that for a week and see how much of an impact you make. Blocking commuters is a waste of energy.
I don't think the goal is to convince the people stuck in the artificially created traffic about Gaza. I think it's to get news coverage from sites like nbcnews.com so as to raise the profile of the Gaza war so that politicians must address it. You are welcome to argue whether that's an effective strategy, but I think that's the intent.
Also, side note.. Social progress rarely comes from rule following.
Is the profile not high enough? I'm pretty sure everyone knows about it who needs to know about it. Blocking traffic isn't going to make a ceasefire happen across the world. Annoying your fellow citizens and ruining their day isn't getting any politicians to act. It's pointless. Actions must be taken against those in charge if we want to see any forward progress. Blocking traffic to protest a war is like yelling at a frycook because you want the McRib back. The actions are being aimed at the wrong people.
counterpoint: the people who would enact this change are far beyond our reach as citizens so there is no way to target them with effective protests.
Besides, some of the best way to affect policy is to A. Cost large businesses money or B. To cause general unrest over an issue. Both of these things will piss your fellow American off but this is how protests work nowadays.
I think most protestors don’t want to block cars of normal people or throw paint onto paintings or whatever. But they have to because if you look at the laws, organized protest has no bite anymore. Go ahead, annoy the politicians, they’ll just arrest your outside of their house and no one will hear about your issue.
That's the problem. No one is actually doing anything worthwhile. You are right, standing outside the mayors house will get you arrested. Do it anyway. Get arrested. You want to make big moves for your cause, do something worth being arrested over. Imagine if all of those people on the bridge yesterday had been blocking traffic to the mayors neighborhood instead. What are they gonna do, arrest a thousand people in a suburb street? That's a fucking news story. Blocking a bridge is bullshit, it carries no weight because there is nothing on the line. Congrats, you fucked up a half million people's day, I guess someone should call the genocide off, now.
Literally go to the capitols instead. Or go to their houses. Some place that actually effects them rather than complete laymen.
Seriously! Protesting has never accomplished anything ever and is totally useless unless it's done explicitly for politicians that are totally receptive and eager to assist their constituents!
They won't do that because they can and will get an armed response from three-letter agencies and LEOs. It's the same reason these absolute clowns never protest where the weapons are made and shipped from, they'll get beaten and shot, and they know it, so instead they harass everyone else.
Right... because the global leaders of the world aren't already aware of what's going on. Thanks for raising awareness, guys.
It's about the public discourse. If an issue (e.g. the U.S. giving Israel weapons and enabling their war) disappears from the headlines, it's much easier for politicians to ignore it. But if the issue keeps coming up, politicians feel pressure to act--or they risk getting voted out of office. Especially during an election year.
They're not in front of the White House, they're not even in front of city hall, they're hurting their own.
The King loves it when the peasants fight amongst themselves.
Not sure if you are agreeing with me or not, but that is exactly what I'm saying. Right now, blocking traffic is about as easy for the "king" to ignore as anything else.
Yeah. I saw some of the posts across Lemmy trying to organize this.
There it was presented as blocking shipping ports. I thought that was odd. Wasn't sure how that was going to affect Israel, but whatever.
Then the day comes and they're doing this low effort reposting-of-a-meme-everyone-has-seen-already version of protest and I just rolled my eyes.
"Innocent people are being murdered in Palestine, so I'm going to go prevent someone that also hates what is happening from visiting their dying grandmother! That'll show 'em!"
🙄
This comment is so meta. You're literally engaging in the conversation about it right now. This means it worked... How does no one understand this? The fact of the matter is it makes the issue relevant so that it shows up on people's screens and they're forced to confront the issue and debate the protest and it becomes topical. No one wants to be stuck in traffic. I sympathize with those who were affected. But I'll give you one guess who I sympathize with more right now.
Completely agree. Blocking the average Joe driving home will get attention, but potentially for the wrong reason. I think your edit is perfect. Inconvenience those in power that can do something about it now, not someone who can really only do something when voting.
I feel bad for the people in traffic but the protestors only get to this state because of repeatedly being ignored by the government. If normal protests aren’t cutting it anymore and you don’t want to be violent then what options do you really have? They (gov) just don’t listen.
Protest where it is effective, not where it gets you the most social media clout. Blocking traffic is the protesting equivalent of a selfie. Make some noise near an elected official, and often. See how quickly they change their attitude when they are the ones being fucked with.
I would love to know what Universe you live in where quiet polite demos in out of the way places get reported on the news and come to the attention of all the other 334,912,895 people in the US that didn't see it personally.
Oh, you're right. I forgot the real point of protesting. I've been living my life thinking it's a public demonstration designed to let those in power know you are dissatisfied with how things are happening. Now I understand, though. It's performance art for the last stay at home mom in Michigan who hasn't heard about the war. We gotta get her to stop making that mayonnaise salad and start an aluminum drive for the war effort. Thanks for clearing it up. If I ever have a problem with anything in the future I'll know not to go to the person in charge, I'll just run into traffic and shake my ass at onlookers until the world changes for me. That's gonna make things a lot easier from here on out.
You should read some history and stop acting so juvenile. Peaceful non disruptive protests never accomplished shit. People died for women’s right to vote, they died for civil rights, and they died for the five day work week. A one day shutdown of a bridge is fucking nothing compared to what went down with those movements.
This is democracy at work. Liberals are all the same, pro-democracy until it gets in their way or upsets them. You don’t change power structures by asking politely.
I think you replied to the wrong person...
It’s not going to get the government to listen by doing this either. It’s completely ineffective and just pisses people off and actively stops them from supporting a cause.
These clowns didn't even try a normal protest at city hall or to bother the government, the first thing they did was screw up the days of working class citizens, as usual, because they only ever take the easy way and not the way that involves any personal risk.
President dogged by anti-Gaza war crowds everywhere he goes over support for Israel despite the heavy cost in civilian lives
A House Judiciary hearing on free speech on college campuses was interrupted more than half a dozen times by protesters expressing support for Palestinians amid the ongoing war with Israel.
Earlier this week, the U.S. Capitol Police arrested 51 protesters in the Hart Senate Office building in Washington, D.C. The group was demonstrating against the U.S. sending funding to Israel.
10,000 pro-Palestinian protesters at Texas Capitol call for cease-fire in Israel-Hamas war
/agree
I fully support the cause, but this just ain't the way to effectively protest the system. I feel the same way about the climate activists throwing soup on art instalation (yes I know they are all protected, but to the average person you still look like an ignorant fucking asshole).
If you want to spur change, then you need to make it uncomfortable for your representatives to take a public position than conflicts with your ethics. Do so peacefully, but forcefully and as often as is feasible. You are much more likely to garner public support that way, and normies generally love anything that make politicians look bad.
Why peacefully? Just today the IDF attacked a playground with an airstrike killing a group of children playing in broad daylight. It would be unbelievable if there wasn't clear footage of it and numerous similar attacks. US supplied weapons, funded by our taxes, cheered on by our political establishment. Stopping traffic isn't going nearly far enough.
The objective is to appear in the News, which will result in way more people becoming aware of just how many people are against what Israel is doing in Gaza and the US Administration's support of it, which in turn will lead others to become more open about they themselves being against it since they will feel that "we are many" rather than "it's just me" - grassroots movements independent of established politicial and media networks, no matter how many potential supporters they have, must be seen in order to grow otherwise they'll just fizzle away and nothing will change.
That usually means some kind of stunt in an important and highly public place which is almost certain to affect lots of members of the public.
Barelly disturbing a handful of politicians as you suggest would not make the News unless the Press was already there for some other reason and it would still have to be some kind of stunt (think the Iraqi guy that threw his shoe at George Bush) for the Press to even mention it in the news.
Unfortunatelly in the World we live in people have to use marketing strategies to merelly be seen, more so to have soap box to be heard by the rest of the nation, especially in Theatre Of Democracy countries were the "choice" is either pre-selected A or pre-selected B, and were the Press is not at all a Pillar Of Democracy independent of the Political Pillar but is pretty much joined at the hip with Political and/or Wealth Powers.
If it had the kind of Political and Press environment were those things could just be done the way you naivelly (or maybe misleadingly) suggest, the US would be quite a different place in terms of Power, Voice and Representativeness and not one where the only electoral "choice" is between two genocide-loving presidential candidates.
Media attention is a failed outdated tactic.
https://www.a15action.com/
Hurting the rich's pocket books is the only language they respect. Now I'm not sure blocking roads is the most effective form of this tactic. Usually you use labor unions. But they're probably just working with what they have.
Yeah, but you're not getting public support. You're getting the opposite.
Convenient protests don’t do shit. They get ignored, and often not reported on at all.
People said exactly the same thing you’re saying about the civil rights movement. Which was much more disruptive than the schoolbooks teach.
Those poor schmucks also have a voice and have political power. And you can't deny the optics of the Golden Gate Bridge being closed, it's an iconic throughway. I'm not sure if there are any instantly recognizable parking garages.
So, some single mother in the Midwest is now going to do something about Gaza now? That's what we needed? Optics? Fuck. We should put up some billboards along the interstate next, that'll bring all this kids back from the dead
You all are missing then ENTIRE FUCKING POINT of a protest. It isn't to block traffic, it's to force action to be taken where none is, and no one capable of taking that action gives two squirts of chipotle if some people stood on a bridge yesterday. Fuck with the establishment, make some cunt in his comfortable office sweat.
If you knew anything about the SF Bay area, you would understand who this protest is targeting. Those people absolutely have power to influence change.
I actually wrote a very long reply to this, but then I checked your comment history, and I thought I'd be more supportive.
Look, one day, everything is going to change. Maybe not all in one day but it'll be quick. Something will happen, and you'll have to re-evaluate the way you look at the world. When that happens, take three deep breaths. Hold them. Eventually you'll pass out, and you'll be doing everyone around you a favor by not talking for however long you are unconscious for. Hopefully you'll drop your phone and it'll break, and you can take a break from social media, too.
maybe someday you'll learn that genocide is wrong and protesting it is always morally good!!
Ahh yes, I believe the old saying goes something like, "Always take the moral high ground, no matter how many people you have to step on to get there."
I dunno I mean I would normally oppose this on principle, but I do kind of agree. This does stop all local traffic at the golden gate bridge, but it doesn't really do anything to incentivize that politicians controlling the funding of israel at (mostly) the federal level to change course. Unless we maybe saw floyd-level protests happening across the nation, or something. This specific kind of protest is most effective when addressing local or state level problems, because local or state level leaders are more easily strongarmed, especially as they're about to pass bad legislation. The threat of further property damage can be used as leverage which can influence local decisions. Local protests are better used against local targets, and target selection is crucial, basically, though that applies more to mass protests, this seems more like a smaller group.
It probably would've been better to go after a lockheed martin facility, or something to that effect, but obviously that comes with a much, much greater deal of risk. Probably the softest points to push on would be something like a higher-up, or the infrastructure going into and immediately around a facility, especially with such a small group. It's not as though the locations of weapons manufacturers aren't publically known, or accessible, or that there aren't many different, small, critical pieces, including people, that go into the manufacture of advanced weaponry.
ITT- You're allowed your first amendment right to protest war crimes, just not where I can see or be inconvenienced. Because all of the civil rights and anti war protests in the past 70 years that were truly successful were very polite and inconvenienced no one.
MLK Jr. literally wrote about this exact same thing in his Letter from Birmingham jail.
Yeah I remember reading that in college. He wasn't the bland platitudes guy high schools teach.
He was also assassinated right after he started pivoting from civil rights to economic inequality (starting the Poor People's Campaign). Funny coincidence, that.
If it were today, he would've "commited suicide" with a shot to the back of the head.
it's just not a good time guys, maybe next year when things are better!
Nice.
If Americans want the protests to stop, they should stop supporting genocide.
Mm and how has the average San Franciscan contributed to a war on the other side of the planet?
The same way the average American contributed to black oppression. By being silent observers to your government's actions.
Not my government
In the same way we all do. Those weapons can't be built without a reliable economy. Interruptions in labor produce ripple effects which disrupt the atrocities of the capitalist class.
Except these morons protest everywhere except where the weapons are made and shipped from. Curious.
Okay, so why haven't you, as I assume an American, stopped working to disrupt the atrocities of the capitalist class?
I have.
Hahaha nice, good luck with that
Complicit: How We Enable the Unethical and How to Stop
With a portion of their taxes.
So everyone's a cunt except the church then?
Especially the church.
But the church doesn't pay taxes?
Because the church tries to collect them.
Unfortunately any protest in the US is at best constrained to stopping future weapons shipments to Israel. But as Netanyahu has already shown he doesn’t care what Biden has to say, the US is unlikely to be able to stop them from continuing to use the weapons they already have.
Bibi doesnt care what Biden says because Biden will never actually cut off the arm shipments.
The US could also do more like actually sanction Israel for committing genocide.
Direct action is super based.
Can't wait to watch all the redditors who mostly don't commute or don't drive have a collective aneurysm over this.
Honestly, Bay Area commuters who use that bridge regularly probably couldn't tell the difference
Haha it was definitely noticeable. I was having some some work done on my house. I'm in the peninsula and the contractors were coming from the north bay. They were aiming to get to my place by 8:30AM but they were stuck on the bridge and delayed several hours - I don't think they arrived until 12:30 or 1 PM. They said that all the cars had to back up off the bridge, go north to San Rafael, and take the 580 instead.
it goes nowhere. some wacko billionaire mansion town, some wizards house...
Is this comments section: "fuck shit up, society isn't working," vs "follow the rules when you protest, that's how you make change happen."
There has got to be a way to do this without hurting regular people.
Like I agree with the protestors 100%... but trapping people on a bridge? Blocking traffic? That's dangerous and irresponsible.
Direct action and disruption is necessary, but this is absolutely the wrong way to do it.
"Lol, sorry we couldn't get a firetruck to your burning apartment building, the road was blocked."
Nothing like exercising your right to protest by infringing on everyone else's right to travel freely.
Liberalism: Every protest is in history was righteous, except for the current one which affects me.
Leftism: The proletariat harming the proletariat is worse than ineffective, it is self-defeating.
Maybe as leftists, we should protest against the bourgeoisie instead of each other, but that might inconvenience some people.
ITT: car-brains who think being inconvenienced justifies murder
Ah yes, risk of getting fired and losing your livelihood after getting stuck on a bridge = "inconvenienced"
I thought tankies were all for running over people with large vehicles...
Yeah, and that's why they're evil pieces of shit. What's your point?
First Past The Post voting ensures these people remain unrepresented in the political process. We must pass electoral reform in each of our states so we can have more people represented.
Things like this are merely performative and will only make enemies, not enact change anyway
It seems to empower opposition to the cause as well. Also, in Washington this has happened enough we have legislation to increase the penalty for blocking infrastructure.
Its horrible what's happening to Palestinians why do people keep pretenting the war can't end at any moment if hamas surrenders and releases the hostages. Iran orchestrates this shit but has the far left wrapped around their finger protesting Israel and the US.
I think you meant israel and instead wrote Iran?
Full speed ahead boys 🤣
FOR THE FINAL TIME: This doesn't make people get your message! It just makes you look like an asshole for blocking traffic.
Yet you somehow, despite the yelling, got the message.
This is definitely a far greater inconvenience than having your home destroyed and watching your children starve to death. I get how these protests can be frustrating when you're just trying to go about your day, but nobody is getting fired when they can just explain that they got held up by the protest. Sure some people will fail to see the message and simply be upset with the protestors, but when there's an important cause it's impossible to cause change without some disruption.