Putin: lifting Ukraine missile restrictions would put Nato ‘at war’ with Russia
theguardian.com
Vladimir Putin has said that a western move to let Kyiv use longer-range weapons against targets inside Russia would mean Nato would be “at war” with Moscow.
Putin spoke as US and UK top diplomats discussed easing rules on firing western weapons into Russia, which Kyiv has been pressing for, more than two and a half years into Moscow’s offensive.
“This would in a significant way change the very nature of the conflict,” Putin told a state television reporter.
“It would mean that Nato countries, the US, European countries, are at war with Russia,” he added. “If that’s the case, then taking into account the change of nature of the conflict, we will take the appropriate decisions based on the threats that we will face.”
Assuming that the implication here isn't that the appropriate decision would be "Russia's gonna pull out of Ukraine", and it's more "Russia is gonna use nuclear weapons", I expect that it can be added to this list:
https://united24media.com/war-in-ukraine/a-timeline-of-russias-nuclear-threats-against-the-west-947
I believe that that would be entry #96.
I'd also add that during the very first statement Putin made announcing the invasion, on February 24, 2022, he ended it with what I imagine was intended to be interpreted as a nuclear threat:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_conducting_a_special_military_operation
I don't have a unified timeline of everyone's activity, but we authorized military aid the next day, so I don't think that the statement had a very extensive deterrent effect.
https://www.defense.gov/Spotlights/Support-for-Ukraine/Timeline/
NATO: staying in Ukraine would put Russia 'at war' with NATO.
Considering your army can't take Ukraine, this really a fight you want to pick?
God, it really is the Russian religion that they're the only strong ones and everyone else is just so spoiled and weak, as your oligarchs tell you, from their mega yachts.
They are both perpetual victims and the strongest kid on the playground at the same time.
Which is described in Ur-Fascism by Umberto Eco. It's part of the fascist rethoric.
Russian cultural paranoia.
They cannot consider themselves safe unless they have a 'perimeter' around Russia.
The thing is: that needed perimeter is always growing, eventually your country becomes part of it, ask Poland and later east Germany, Afghanistan, and eventually, your country.
Wait a seconds. Haven’t they said that they are at war with NATO at least since the started the full invasion?
At this point there is no point in beliving in Putin when he talks about red lines. Apparently he would Nuke the shit out of Ukraine if they entered Russian territory but this has not happened after Kursk..
Well, yes. But this time they mean it. It's completely different.
Too late, they already used GLMRS in the Kursk region. Guess we’re “at war” now. I’d argue that’s a laughable position for him to take given Russian agents have been sabotaging European infrastructure all over the place since Feb 22. Letting Ukraine defend itself shouldn’t be controversial.
Well Putin, if you don't want a war with NATO, you could always do the responsible thing and get the fuck out of Ukraine and stop launching illegal invasions of your neighbors.
I think the prefix "illegal" is not needed before invasion...
Chapter VII of the UN Charter, I.E. internationally agreed upon law by UN signatories, which Russia as a sitting member of the security council should be obliged to obey, states use of force against another country, especially other members of the UN is prohibited except in cases of self-defense or by authorization of UN Council.
So no, every invasion is not inherently illegal. That's only explicitly true when you talk about Russia, because like every authoritarian power they only care about rules when they benefit them.
Wtf ? Is there an example of UN-Council authorized invasions?
Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan?
Again? Wouldn't that be like the fifth War NATO would enter with Russia, according to Putin?
So many red lines crossed its starting to look like a red carpet.
Oh no, NATO is on the brink of starting World War VIII!
Oh no...anyway
jeremyclarkson.gif
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_final_warning
Doesnt this imply that, for Putin, Crimea and Donbas are not part of Russia? Those have been repeatedly hit by long range western missiles.
Maybe someone should inform the Russians living in those areas that their leader thinks less of them than other Russians.
His soldiers don't much care for Kursk either. Since they are looting it for all its worth.
Awkwardly ignoring the nationals in the Somoa, Guam and Virgin Islands. You can even make a case for Wales and Ireland. This is unfortunately common the more I think about it.
They can't even handle Ukraine lol, can you imagine NATO?
Russia have repeatedly admitted it has no chance of beating Nato. Hence the nuclear escalation is the only matter to discuss. A beated nation will press all the buttons.
Not to mention, Russia has been waging asymetric warfare tactics against NATO powers for years. If anything, it's that they haven't woken up to the nature of the conflict.
Sounds like a "final warning" to me
Like twentieth now.
“Two and a half…… two and three quarters……”
Negotiate the full deal to return Ukrainian, and exit peaceably. Run your stories in Russia "Ukraine successfully denazified, free and fair elections to be held" - "Ukrainian forces defeated at Russian border"...
...then go back to arresting democracy protestors, gay rights advocates, and your own alt-right talking heads... And try to keep your head on Vlad. Try to pick a successors, and a nice European country to retire to.
He will never be able to retire, lmao. He's going to die in one of his bunkers to afraid of being Gaddafied.
Then he'll remain a danger to the world and probably do a lot of horrible things protecting himself, which will not be a good outcome for the west.
Somebody fucking call their bluff already
They've been calling it for basically the last whole war.
In fact, it's been done pretty masterfully by not making one huge step, but small steps where no single one would force him to do something, but just over time each small step eventually gets to the point where he said he would have to do something...and hasn't.
his own game
Putler makes veiled threats to use nuclear weapons.
Again. Dude isn't really impressing anybody anymore.
Touch the boats. Seriously. Try it. See what happens.
Lol. Ok. Let's see what little Vlad Puta calls "war". What a scared little bitch he is.
They've been launching cyber attacks at USA for years. Are they not at war yet?
This is exactly the point. They are already at full throttle war with the West. The only further escalation they could make would be nukes, which would be their end, NATO can take out all of Russias nuclear capacity and win the war in Ukraine all with conventional weapons.
Like the previous N times? 😴
Everyone is so afraid
The famous paper tiger. :p
Another bluff. Also, we can just call it "special military operations".
Also, NATO includes Canada. Not just the US and European countries, like the article says.
"Vladimir Putin says..."
Aaand my brain switches off. Another red line.
Oh gosh, I am so scared. Another Russian red line.
Fucking bring it
NATO should at least shoot down missiles and drones which enter their sovereign airspace. Save Ukrainian lives and structures. Would also be actual experience of shooting down such actual enemy hardware in their own airspace. No simulation, no controlled environment. Would also train their AI for real.
maybe attack Ukrainian separatists as they are technically not Russian, and have flying transmitters over Ukraine and in the Black Sea with anti-Putin broadcasts.
Keep rattling that saber and it'll fall apart
You and what army?
Ok well I guess we're all going to be affected. I propose that blender thing for putin when they get him out of the smokey hole.
Let Ukraine use slightly longer range weapons than anything they can prove has been fired by Russia. Every escalation by Russia is permission to use the next tier of missiles to wipe them out.
Just let Ukraine use all the conventional weapons.
Is that a shred of concern? Could he lose the war if longs range missiles were allowed?
Russians are crazy, but are they really crazy enough to self destruct completely?
Because I'm pretty sure they must be aware that that is what they are talking about.
Anyone who has played the 'Risk' board game has an idea what the next moves should be.
Risk didn't properly account for Russia's nukes being parted out for the last 50 years by black-market scalpers.
They almost certainly lack sufficient unadulterated fuel, complete/functional nav systems, accurate arming systems or reliable detonation systems.
So they should conquer the entirety of Asia in one turn, to get an extra 7 units per turn in order to afford their war with Europe?
Putin is only 5'6".
If he was a man, he would be a manlet.
But he is an orc, 5'6" is pretty tall for an orc.
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WW 3 has already started.
I don't know what counts as a "world war" these days anymore.
A significant portion of the world's militaries have been involved in various Middle Eastern conflicts, yet those haven't been called world wars...
So... What qualifies as a world war?
I don't think there's an agreed upon definition, but something akin to simultaneous engagements at different locations across the globe (different continents?) all as part of one interconnecting war maybe?
That's a pretty good definition. But with this definition we aren't there yet.
The current wars aren't interconnected.
True, it would depend entirely on what India and China do in a scenario in which NATO and Russia come to open War.