Detroit synagogue president found fatally stabbed outside her home

deconstruct@lemm.ee to News@lemmy.world – 522 points – Detroit synagogue president found fatally stabbed outside her home
nbcnews.com

A Detroit synagogue president was found fatally stabbed outside her home Saturday morning.

Samantha Woll, 40, led the congregation of Isaac Agree Downtown Synagogue. The synagogue confirmed Woll's death Saturday in a statement writing, “We are shocked and saddened to learn of the unexpected death of Samantha Woll, our Board President.”

“May her memory be a blessing,” the statement continued.

Authorities said a 911 call was made to Woll's home early Saturday, reporting an individual lying on the ground unresponsive. Police discovered multiple stab wounds on Woll's body and found a trail of blood leading to her house, where they believe the crime occurred.

An investigation is underway. At this time, the motive for the crime remains unknown.

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Far right white supremacist killings of Jews is far more prevalent in the US than Muslim killings of Jews. My first suspects would be among the extreme right.

Ordinarily I'd agree with you, but Occam's razor doesn't. Metro Detroit is home to the largest Arabic community in the country. I believe Jewish/Arab relations are pretty sound there, but given the current circumstances...

Far right arab supremacists also exist. Impossible to rule them out especially given the timing and circumstances.

place your bets place your bets will it be a nazi, a klansman, a jihadist, death by cop (never discount the possibility) or just some other random murderer? AAAAAMERRRRRICA THE LAND OF FREEDOM AND LIBERTY

Forgetting the biggest cause of murders for women in the US: it was someone they knew, probably a lover.

Police discovered multiple stab wounds on Woll’s body and found a trail of blood leading to her house, where they believe the crime occurred.

A distinct possibility since she was stabbed at home.

Right? Stabbings are a strictly American phenomenon, as is racially or religiously motivated violence and just violence in general. Don't see any of those happening anywhere else in the entire world, people in other countries have pillowfights at most. America wake up, everywhere else is a utopia while you slide into a dystopia.

You are right stabbings do happen elsewhere it's the guns that set America apart.

I see you've never played expanded rock paper scissors. Grenade beats gun beats knife, so Sweden still beats America but at least America (and CZ) beats the rest of europe.

Maybe but the extreme right are mostly cowards that like to use firearms. A stabbing is off brand for right wing MAGAts.

Talking out of my ass here, but I've heard that stabbing is a more personal crime. You need to get closer so it's more likely to be someone that feels deeply threatened or personally hurt.

That might be why we see these antisemitic attacks being stabbings, because the extremists feel deeply terrified and hurt.

I'm not justifying the crime - it's evil and they need to be locked up. But we need to understand where this extremism is coming from if we want to stop it.

You are right in that stabbings feel much more personal psychologically, but I would imagine a murderer would pick the most sure weapon if it was entirely premeditated. It seems as though the guy had no intention of hiding the killing.

I'm sure many of these extremists were either charged with a felony before or involuntarily committed to a mental hospital. Both mean that they are federally banned from guns for life. I think many of these murders are out of strong rage rather than calculated killings, but they'd still probably prefer to use a gun if they had easy access.

How can they say that shit definitively? People often stab because they don't have access to guns, it doesn't mean what they're doing is personal.

Out of morbid curiosity… are the skinheads white supremacists rooting for the Israelis or Hamas? Usually they don’t like brown people, but they also don’t like Jewish people.

I realize this isn't your point but I feel the need to point out that skinheads are not nazis - it is unfortunately a very well working project of cultural appropriation by the racists.

In the scene racist skinheads are mostly referred to as boneheads, a term which I think makes much more sense.

This pile of shit isn't the same as this other pile of shit.

Got it.

Know. Your. Shit.

Well one "pile of shit" is racist, the other "pile of shit" is poor and works in manufacturing where they don't want their hair ripped into a machine, and also likes punk music. Imo, to call the second ones piles of shit for simply being poor workers with haircuts that reflect work safety and like semi-heavy music (what skinheads actually came from that you're sarcastically pretending to understand) makes you a classist (remember, know your shit, you aren't racist but seems you're classist) pile of shit. Also groups like SHARP exist.

Know your shit indeed, especially before being so confidently incorrect.

He's got 'flunk' in the username, and speaks correspondingly. Keep up the good info fight.

You're naive if you have never seen a non racist skinhead. Most of the skinheads at punk and metal shows in my area are SHARPS(Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice) and are also black or hispanic. They drove out the local racist skinheads from punk and metal shows by ruthlessly attacking anyone who showed up wearing Nazi bullshit. They are fine people, the kind of people you want as a neighbor.

Not only that, but the first skinheads were just working class Ska music fans of all races. The shaved head image was stolen from them by racist skinheads in the 80s.

They're rooting for the Israelis because they want the ethnostate project to succeed.

They know no one outside of their cult is going to support them even if the Israeli government succeeds in committing genocide, don't they?

Even if in their eyes we are blatant hypocrites, it'd be better to be a hypocrite than to give people like that an inch.

It still stands as an example of a successful ethnostate. It's also a destination where they can claim that Jews can be expelled to and that it should be "fine".

And no one listens to white supremacists because we understand life is not black and white like that, and by their reputation alone, white supremacists will never ever get what they want.

and yet the republican party exists, and even thrives.

Okay, fair. Addendum to that: no one outside of their little cult listens to white supremacists.

In general, they have different things they perceive and admire about the two. Please know, I'll be using some of their words. In Hamas, they see people battling "Degeneracy" and "Jewish Influence." There is an admiration for Israel, as an theocratic apartheid ethnostate. Seriously, at protests, Ive seen them carry Israeli flags before. Mostly, though its a party. "The subhumans" are fighting, one will be destroyed and one will look bad in the eyes of the international community.

Many Israelis are brown people, about 20 % are Palestinian and there are also Muslims in Israel. Hating or not hating Israel isn't a litmus test for Nazis.

I guess the most Nazi standpoint on Israel-Palestine conflict is to rub one's hands.

Definitely the muslims. Believe it or not the far right doesn't hate muslims, just don't want to be around them. They think American involvement in the muslim world was a result of American military being used for Jewish interests. But they consider Israel to be the leading force in global destabilization. So 100% they are rooting for Palestine.

And the current geopolitical climate could give the far right cover for committing antisemitic crimes. Particularity for crimes less serious (and therefore less well investigated) than murder, they can commit hate crimes and blame it on the Arabs.

I know we're speculating here but imo given what's going on between Palestine and Israel I would be inclined to believe the latter rather than the former.

what a bunch of cope lol. there are orders of magnitude more jew hating muslims than "white supremacists" in the usa.

the DHS would disagree with you, seeing as they named White Nationalist groups the biggest terrorist threat to the USA in 2020

I'm sure there are no political motives that influenced that.

Also that was 3 years ago. In the current climate I'm not sure I would be so sure. You have muslims ripping down posters of dead israelis all over the united states.

Local Jew in Detroit here. Woll was my friends' cousin. Another friend was in elementary school with her at Hillel.

People are shook up and scared. People aren't sure if this is the crest of a wave of antisemitic violence, or something more senseless.

My 3 kids are half Jewish through my ex wife. I hear you and I had a chat with them this morning about this. Although I'm in Toronto, Canada the same bigots are here and have been empowered by the same vitriolic rhetoric floating around.

I told them that hate is hate and if they hear it directed specifically at them or a Muslim in their school (friends with Iranians) for them to report to the teachers and to me. Hate will not be tolerated.

Please stay safe.

My daughter is also half-Jewish (I'm Jewish, my wife is not). I'm always worried about her getting bullied in school for it. I tell her to never tell anyone.

One of her elementary school teachers just assumed she was Jewish because I look stereotypically Jewish and treated her differently because of it.

I hear you and as a parent it's so sad knowing a child is being told to hide their identity.

Hugs from afar. There are many of us non-Jews out there that don't condone this bullshit.

Stay safe.

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Just in general, antisemitic hate crimes have been disproportionate for a pretty long time, regardless of the situation in Gaza.

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May her memory be a blessing.

Those who spread lies and disinformation are responsible for this death. The Jew hate needs to stop. This woman was American, not Israeli.

Would that be better? If some Israeli Jew living in the US had been stabbed?

Why does the better alternative in your world have someone being stabbed?

A better option to me is nobody gets hurt that isn't involved in the conflict.

I think they're pointing out that it sounds like by saying "she was American, not Israeli" that you think it would have somehow been less awful if she was Israeli.

I believe that person was tying this act to anti-Semitism on the rise worldwide, and drawing attention to the fact that this person has nothing to do with the current crisis.

There is no evidence this was fueled by antisemitism. People get stabbed all the time in american cities and no one bats an eye.

I thought shooting was more of the American thing, but then again they probably just outnumber the stabbings

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Stabbings are usually regarded as a crime committed by someone who knew the victim. I believe this was not a hate crime but something done by the mind of either revenge or other assorted modes of emotional violence. I believe this crime has entered the news churn to carry out an agenda.

The stabbing in Chicago is a recent example of a hate crime with a knife. Stabbings are often crimes of passion which would fit the bill for a bigot who's over the edge due to the Hamas propaganda being pushed right now.

The agenda here is your attempt to minimize the Anti Semitism/ Jew hate we're seeing rise in America and abroad. Anyone with half of a brain sees this bigotry a mile away.

Using fear of the unknown as a tactic wil usually herd the sheep. I am not going to scream fire everyone someone strikes a match. Accusing me of bigotry because I am waiting for more proof is also an intimidation tactic to comply.

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At this time, the motive for the crime remains unknown.

Unknown? Clearly this prominent Jewish community leader in Detroit was viciously stabbed to death for her playstation, there was no other reason possible.

  • Attempted robbery
  • Hate crime
  • Targeted attack by someone with a personal vendetta unrelated to Woll's religion
  • Random attack by a nutter

Among any number of other potential motives. There's a definite hierarchy of probability but random blind assertions in public are not how you build an actual fucking criminal case.

You missed the most obvious one: most women are murdered by men they know, and largely by current or former intimate partners. Especially since

[Police] found a trail of blood leading to her house, where they believe the crime occurred.

Thank you. Also worth noting is that this is Detroit, so, while death is always tragic, it's not unheard of in the city.

Nope. All available evidence you need is in the article, didn't you read it? Her religion. That's it, case closed.

But... I guess if that's somehow not enough, we could just to sprinkle some crack on her.

Edit: I assumed the Dave Chappelle sprinkle crack callback would make the sarcasm clear. Apparently not.

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When you take everything you read literally and as Very Serious Business, do you do it as a studied effort, or are you just like this?

Oh what, so now you were JUST KIDDING BRO.

Shut the fuck up.

So your idea of a rebuttal to "don't take everything literally" is to say "well if it's not black then it's white"? You're either literally a school-age child or a complete idiot, what is it about nuance that escapes you? How do you even have to think about it, why isn't it just coming naturally from common sense. Living your life must feel like the first 2 seconds after a blow to the head all the time.

It’s so weird how you could have just said “you know what bro, that makes sense.” and grown a bit from the experience, but instead you thought “yOU tAkE tHInGs too LiTeraL” was an appropriate response.

Fuck me if I’ll ever understand these types of people.

You missed the point, and you just keep reinforcing that you missed the point. You just keep doing it, it's like watching a man who doesn't realize his toupee is hanging off the back of his head. Am I really going to have to explain it to you? It would be like explaining why water is wet, it degrades everyone present. Do us both a favor: apply the context clue skills you didn't pay attention to in your third grade Language Arts class and piss off till you get it.

I know it's sometimes hard to decipher sarcasm from written word, but holy shit people took your joke insanely seriously.

Stay away from stand-up comedy, someone might discover you own a PlayStation as well.

FWIW, I chuckled. What a sad fucking story and what a sad fucking state that you're consoling humor went so unappreciated.

Or maybe sarcastically implying that a murder was a hate crime when we know literally nothing about the situation is a shit joke. Immediately screeching like a toddler after very mild pushback isn't a good look either.

I'm just not reading it as screeching, but what do I know? I misread tone all the time.

Either way, I'm morbidly curious what they're going to find about this. Stabbing murders tend to be incredibly personal, which could imply that this was done by someone close to her or someone wanted to delight in her suffering.

I'm no detective, just some random internet dude, but if not a hate crime, whoever murdered this poor lady certainly had some strong feelings about her.

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You can't make any assumptions in these situations. If police are known for anything, it's being level-headed and unbiased.

Well, that is the prevailing theory (by the anti self defense crowd anyway) for why home invasions occur and is commonly used as the reasoning for why self defense is bad.

In my opinion this is a case for why self defense is necessary (because clearly not everyone is "just here for your TV"), but Everytown would prefer this outcome to her shooting the stabber, so..

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How do you make a 911 call to someone’s home?

The article has been revised to clarify for you

Authorities said a 911 caller early Saturday reported a person lying on the ground unresponsive at Woll’s home.

Know what street you're on, see the house numbers on the mailbox, dial 911, say "hey yes it seems someone is injured outside [ADDRESS], I noticed while walking/driving by."

Seems easy enough to me.

Taking down the article as to without a word why. lWhy would you do that and run away without an explanation ? leave it up as the investigation continues. Ihttps://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2023/10/22/police-investigation-jewish-leader-samantha-woll-slaying-vigil/71282542007/ you coward .

However, if you link this to an uptick in antisemitism tied to lies about Israel spread by "decolonizers" you're Noticing Things, And Therefore Wrong.

You don't believe Israelites are illegally colonizing Palestine?

Gaza or the West Bank? If both, then no and yes. Israel dismantled settlements in Gaza in 2005. Unfortunately, settlements continued in the West Bank, aggravating efforts to conclude the hand off of two of the three districts there.

Hamas is from the Gaza Strip, not the West Bank though. Gaza relations have been weird, but stabilizing with daily work travel through the border. Arguably, Hamas attacked now for fear that relations would continue to improve with Gaza, setting back their mission.

Both. Israel has illegally colonized Palestinian land in Gaza and the West Bank for 60 years now.

What Gazan land does Israel occupy?

Recently?

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/21/gaza-strip-israel-hamas-war-demographics

Israel's been wholly occupying Gaza since 2007.

As of the most recent flare up, the blockade has increased to include water, fuel and food, so the occupation is becoming more severe.

A blockade is not an occupation, unless you're suggesting that the British were actually occupying all of Germany and Austria-Hungary in 1916.

Note that I'm not saying that a blockade is not harsh or oppressive, only that it is not in fact the same thing as an occupation.

Israeli soldiers, since 1967 , have been occupying Palestinian Gaza.

The UN also agrees that Israel is occupying Palestinian land in Gaza.

Forcibly invading a land and residing on its soil may not be interpreted as an occupation by certain people in certain circumstances, but I can't interpret the forceable invasion and residing on Palestinian soil, and imposition of Israeli laws on Palestinian citizens as anything other than colonization, or illegal occupation.

Mate, do you know where Gaza is?

Israel is occupying the West Bank, absolutely. The IDF is literally everywhere, conducts military operations all the time, and huge chunks of the land are under direct Israeli administration.

None of those things is the case for the Gaza Strip. That border was established in 1949 following negotiations between Israel and Egypt, and afterwards it was functionally a part of Egypt. It was then captured and truly occupied by Israel after the 1967 Six Days War. This lasted until 2005, when the IDF fully withdrew from the Gaza Stop (the boundary of which, I'll say again, was established in 1949) and forcibly evicted all Jewish settlers. A military blockade was instituted after Hamas won elections in 2006 and started lobbing rockets at Israel, since Hamas' explicit goal is the violent elimination of all Jews from the entire region.

You can say that the blockade is unjust, collective punishment, destroys any hope for prosperity, and anything else. I'd even agree with you on a lot of that. But you cannot say that it is an occupation, because that is a word that describes a specific situation that simply is not happening in Gaza.

Yes, I know where Gaza is.

According to the UN joint resolution 242, Israel began occupying Gaza in 1967, a military occupation by Israel of Gaza and other Palestinian territories referred to as the "occupied Arab territories".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-occupied_territories#:~:text=Between%201967%20and%201993%2C%20the,the%20Egypt%E2%80%93Israel%20peace%20treaty.

Hope that clears it up for you.

There's a big map if you want to find out where israel-occupied Gaza is(little green bit, bottom left).

I can appreciate that position, but let's dig into the nuance a little bit.

After 2005 Israel had a temporary blockade which ended in 2006. After 2007 and the election of Hamas, a new blockade enforced by Israel and Egypt was implemented to isolate Hamas. Excerpt from Wikipedia:

Israel blockaded the Gaza Strip temporarily in 2005–2006. In 2007, after Hamas seized control of the Gaza Strip, both Israel and Egypt have imposed an indefinite blockade of Gaza that is ongoing to present day, on the grounds that Fatah and Palestinian Authority forces had fled the Strip and were no longer able to provide security on the Palestinian side..

I fully recognize that traditionally a blockade can constitute an act of war, and exerts control over a region or country, so I understand why the UN considered a blockade am ipso facto occupation.

At the same time, where is the outrage against Egypt, and what less invasive measure do you propose Israel and Egypt take to ensure regional security when you have a neighbor whose stated purpose is the violation of UN recognized borders?

This blockade (and the soldiers enforce against) being on Palestinian land is technically an occupation, but I don't know why that other guy was so obsessed with the technical difference between blockades and occupations in this one, specific area of Palestine, and it was never my stance that the blockade is the only occupation or that Gaza is the only important occupied Palestinian territory.

It looks like you want to discuss specifically the latest 16 years of occupation in this tiny little area.

So, since 2007, and ignoring the other occupied territories and the gazan blockade, IDF soldiers entered into Palestine to occupy the city in an effort to ostensibly stop Hamas. Israel also occupies the territorial waters and airspace of Gaza and has launched airstrikes against Gaza. In 2010, is real attack sex civilian ships in Palestinian territorial waters, in 2012, IDF soldiers in Palestine shot some fisherman on gazan land, and it goes on and on.

So ignoring the blockade, there's an overwhelming military presence by IDF(the Israeli military) regularly occupying the land, sea and air inside and around Gaza.

Let's talk about Egypt.

Egypt is not as dependent on or cozied up to the US as israel is, so they don't have the same interest in attacking or occupying Palestine that israel does.

Right now, while Israel is refusing food, water and fuel to Palestine because Israelis believe Palestinians are animals who need to be punished, Egypt is preparing an aid package.

So if you're wondering why the outrage against Egypt is less than that against Israel, it's because Egypt does not display the historied animosity toward or undeniable occupation of Palestine that Israel shows.

Those aren't Egyptian settlers forcing Palestinians off their land. Those aren't Egyptian soldiers blowing up hospitals and schools every year. The colonizers are Israeli and the attacks on hospitals and schools are perpetrated by Israeli soldiers.

Your last question is about a less invasive measure to ensure regional security.

Stay out of Palestinian territories. Stop actively settling on Palestinian land. Don't publicly announce that Palestinian land is actually Israeli land and then broadcast a map that erases Palestine from the map. Definitely stop bombing the schools and hospitals, and shoot less civilians, since I think the Palestinians consider those illegal settlements and civilian bombings and murders on their land pretty invasive (me too).

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There were literally no Israeli soldiers in Gaza prior to these attacks and there have not been for some time - longer than the majority of gazans right now have been alive.

You were straight up incorrect here, the israeli military has been in Gaza for about 60 years.

You can follow the links or literally is any search engine yourself and then read the words that appear as a result of your search to learn more about the historical occupation and raids on Gaza by Israel.

Politically "into" and "physically within" are different things

Israel had 0 troops in gaza.

You're correct that into and physically within can be different concepts, although with respect to Gaza, the troops that are going into Gaza were and are physically inside gaza.

You are incorrect that Israel had zero troops in Gaza.

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It's impossible to claim that land as Palestinian when Palestine has never been a country and that land has never exclusively belonged to what are now called Palestinians

Yes, according to the people committing genocide and bombing schools and hospitals, Palestine is not a country and Palestinians are not human.

You're in like company.

So Palestinians think they themselves are not human?

Nope, israelis believe the Palestinians are animals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbPdR3E4hCk

That is the israeli defense minister making the decision to block water, food or fuel going to Palestinian civilians, basing his decision on his claim that Palestinians are animals.

I honestly don’t blame them when they’ve been surrounded by countries and a religion that has literally been trying to genocide them from the holy lands for the past 50 years.

When violently backed in a corner people will act like animals. This applies to both sides.

It's closer to 75 years total, and yeah, it's pretty difficult to blame the completely overwhelmed underdog for reacting viciously to their land being occupied, civilians being arbitrarily executed and schools and hospitals getting bombed for generations.

Palestine has literally never been a country, in all of human history.

Also Israel offered Palestinians their own country multiple times and Palestinian leadership turned it down. The situation is far more complex than you're pretending.

The primary occupying nation and all people supporting the genocide of Palestine totally agree with you, so. Good. For you guys. To share that opinion.

This is childish and stupid man.

If you're talking about 75 years of Israel occupying Palestine, whittling away their borders, executing civilians, bombing their schools and hospitals and commiting genocide, then no, it isn't childish or stupid, it's the latest chapter in a colonial genocide.

Lol yeah that sentiment is what I'm describing

Try to be more specific.

Right now, you're just saying that genocide is silly.

Is that all you mean?

Because yes, that opinion is childish.

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Damn. I’m sure this is exactly what any non-malicious deity would want. /s because I fear it’s needed.

Something tells me this is a Detroit thing not a Jew thing.