"OK, there's no way they can tell us about their extended warranties up HERE, right?"
Love how rock climbing has some of the safest, most thoroughly tested gear in sports, but it always looks dangerous and that attacts all the "these guys are all idiots", "darwin award" and "i would probably die" people.
There's no good reason to do what these guys are doing, it's thrill seeking pursued by the kind of people that associate risky behavior with meaningful life experiences.
I feel like that logic could be applied to a lot of the things we do for fun.
Sure, but a lot of the things we do for fun do not involve the kind of risks that require a search and rescue team to pull you out of when you fuck up (or the wind just happens to blow a little harder than you expected that night).
The risk/reward calculation for this scenario is way off.
You keep pretending to be great at assessing risks from your armchair but forget that these two guys are professionals, and you know nothing about rock climbing or this particular situation, you haven't provided a singke reason why what they are doing is risky, or stupid. Anchors not bomber proof enough? Not enough redundancy? Too much slack? What is the problem exactly?
Yet you feel entitled to judge them.
These are probably the guys that come and rescue you, when you do something stupid in the outdoors, not the other way around.
They're just having fun
I suppose the search and rescue team that has to pull them out of wherever will also be having fun (if not this climb then a future one).
This has always been a weird take, what do you think attracts people to that kind of SAR work? Generally a love for the outdoors and activities like this. You'll have a hard time finding someone capable of high angle rescue that doesn't enjoy or understand climbing as a sport.
There's a good reason to find out what you are capable of.
I am capable of... risk assessment.
Being an adrenaline junkie won't teach you anything about yourself that you couldn't learn otherwise. It can be a great distraction from actual self-discovery.
You think ypu are but you are probably not familiar with the sport and the gear. In terms of risk assessment IMO the riskiest part in lthis pic is they are not wearing a helmet!
Rock climbing really has little to do with adrenaline chasing and rock climbers are among the chilliest folks out there.
Really all the people in this thread comparing it to base jumping or other crazy things should visit their local climbing gym and have an introductory session, give it a try its awesome.
These folks resting (presumably preparing to overnight?) On a ledge is not something you'd do as a beginner.
Yeah the last thing you want when climbing is an adrenaline rush. It’s slow, methodical concentration, plus flexibility, conditioning and endurance that make a good climber.
I’m tall and lanky, and had a decent amount of natural talent, but was never flexible enough to get past intermediate climbs. Now I have too much arthritis to get back into it.
You think ypu are but you are probably not familiar with the sport and the gear.
Well no, I'm not on any technical level. But when you're doing something like this, you plan your route, right? Stopping here for the night seems like poor planning to me.
It's not the gear or the sport that I'm critical of, it's the decision making that put them sleeping on this ledge. With all the right gear and experience, it seems like they could've done... anything else.
I hate getting into these discussions.
This is Arnaud Petit and Stéphanie Bodet, two professional climbers with far more experience than you. They are doing the second ascent of a 900 meter 8a on Angel Falls (Rainbow Jambaia, 31 pitches) which is about the same height as El Capitan in Yosemite National Park. Here is a story about it. You almost never plan to climb routes this long in a single day, especially not on the second ascent. They most definitely planned to sleep on the wall and brought the proper equipment. This is called big wall climbing
Just be happy for people doing what they love and do what you love: your life will be better. We're all motivated by different things.
Incredible story from incredible athletes. It's a feat to do that and, would you look at that, it doesn't diminish anyone else's goals or aspirations either.
I hate getting into these discussions
gets into the discussion
with far more experience than you.
Yup, pretty sure I said that already... in the post you replied to... not sure why you're throwing it out like you think it detracts from what I said.
You almost never plan to climb routes this long in a single day
That makes sense, I'm sure it's too far to go without a decent rest. But if there's no safer option for a place to sleep, then why go this route at all?
They most definitely planned to sleep on the wall
Yes, that's my point. They planned to do this on purpose. I'm critical of the decision making.
This is called big wall climbing
OK, great, there's a term for it... that hardly makes it a safe or sane thing to do.
That's fine you can always play golf.
Practice your risk assessment skills and superior planning abilities there no need to criticise.
One last time, this IS safe.
I won't comment on the sanity part as you made it clear this is not your cup of tea, not sure why no one else should be allowed to get out of YOUR comfort zone though.
You can learn that without endangering your own life.
Nobody's life is in any real danger here. They and all their equipment are roped in on at least 3 redundant anchors (probably a number more). Rock climbing looks scary but with proper precautions and training it is not significantly riskier than other outdoor sports.
The level of ignorance from these commenters who know nothing of the sport but speak with such authority on it really reminds me of the worst of reddit.
When you sit behind a computer all day instead of living.
This is exactly what I was trying to say with my original comment.
Gear isn't the whole story. My running shoes are safe but a slip or getting hit by a car are always a risk. In the photo, the risk isn't necessarily the equipment: it's human error or the unpredictability of nature.
I mean I could, definitely, but I just don't really feel like doing it.
just gandering at the pic it looks like a crack route and you would most definitely not be doing that. a lot of strength, endurance, and technique for that.
Unnecessary bravery is identical to stupidity
Don't freak out, they would still be wearing their harness.
Well they are not wearing their helmets..
Helmets are more useful during the climbing phase, when the person above you might dislodge small rocks.
Absolutely the fuck no.
Uhh what if you wake up in the middle of the night and have to poop?
Probably shit over the edge if you can't hold it
"Those damm birds."
Guy looking at his car.
More like:
‘What the hell have those birds been eating‽’
taco bell
Lookout belooooooooow
They actually do this. There are some gross stories about it.
Omgod that's terrible. So messed up to not bring a bucket
Most responsible climbers bring something with them to pack it out, but there are some irresponsible ones that do what the comment above mentioned. That is the exception, not the rule though.
They are supposed to shit in small bags and take them with them and dispose them only when they are back to the ground. Of course nobody can control you, if you pop just down from the edge.
All the people in this thread acting like this is safe and reasonable. "It's okay because they still are wearing their harnesses". Okay... lol
proprioceptive input
You should read about it. It's quite interesting but it doesn't make this any less dangerous but it does make scenarios like this more interesting because the human brain and body are incredible. Not everyone has the best proprioceptive input.
I really want to do this one day.
I don't think I'd be able to sleep. I toss and turn so much I doubt I'd be able to stay on the ledge.
I think you'd subconsciously stop doing that. You do get larger platforms that double as tents. But whatever you take up, you have to climb up with, so the simpler, the better. My concern would be getting cold.
Ah, I see it's actually a ledge and not one of those wall bed things (<-- the technical term for them)
one of those wall bed things
portaledge
They’re strapped and tied in if I recall
but y tho?
I'm a rock climber and it just seems really cool, also I'm sure it's some cool multi pitch climbing involved
I always just want to know seeing this how many have died hotelling cliffside.
Probably not many it's pretty safe if you're tied in.
Workplace safety harnesses are very different from climbing harnesses
Does a climbing harness provide more support if you are suspended in it? Or less?
I would say less. But you can spend hours sitting in it if need be. It's not always comfy but it's doable.
Totally different type of harness. Not applicable at all.
OK, this is a workplace safety notice so of course it's focused on a work harness. Is a climbing harness more extensive? Does it offer more support if you end up suspended in it?
If not then the risk of suspension trauma is higher than in a work harness.
Holy shit you know absolutely nothing. I've been rock climbing for more than a decade. You can sit in a climbing harness for hours and hours. It's not the most comfortable thing. But I've spent multiple hours sitting in harness's countless times in my life. I can't believe I'm even having this conversation with someone who knows absolutely nothing about what they are talking about.
For the sake of this photo they are tied into ropes coming up from below but they also have an anchor point above in the background and most likely a point directly on the ledge they are on. They will be tied into very short dynamic ropes for the majority of their time up there making it very difficult to fall more than a couple feet.
Well, I'd say it is something to expect: someone without experience is trying to understand, most likely in good faith. If anything, thank you for sharing your experience, I'd say it wasn't necessary to rant this much but at least you did give an educational reply, thank you for that
Climbing harnesses are usually sitting harnesses that are more padded around the legs and back than work harnesses are.
The bigger thing, though, is that suspension trauma typically happens when you're purely hanging. The amount of time you can hang in a void in a work harness is way, way shorter than the amount of time you can bounce off a wall in a work harness, particularly if you're able to support much of your weight with your feet.
For climbers, the main worry would be hanging around if you're somehow incapacitated from a heart attack or having been knocked out somehow, because workers are a lot more likely to be suspended over a void than climbers.
That's like arguing a condom is less effective at preventing pregnancy than a trash bag, because the condom isn't as big.
No, not really... the suspension trauma happens because the harness straps squeeze your arteries shut, blocking the bloodflow and causing stagnation. If the harness has fewer and/or thinner support straps then you will have the same body weight spread across fewer/smaller points, increasing the pressure and making the problem worse. Blood becomes hypoxic really quickly if it can't move.
I've given safety awareness training and first aid response training on this topic (for work, not for recreation).
I bet there are still a bunch of spiders up there.
Yeah, but would you do it IF YOU COULDN'T TELL ANYBODY?
In the words of dead Descartes: "I think not."
I know climbers who would absolutely do this and tell no one. Adrenaline can be its own reward.
Absolutely. And I aspire to that. Climbing rocks
(pun intended)
I wanna know who took the picture, though. Someone is on that same vertical wall wielding a camera?
It could be a drone.
Sober people are fuckin' crazy.
I would definitely roll in my sleep and fall to my death
Might not look like it, but they're clipped in.
So you'd roll off the ledge, crack your head against the rock face and then bleed out, NOT fall to your death 👌.
I go to bed fully clothed and wake up without pants on, so there is no way a carabiner clip would save my lucid dreaming ass.
There are "carabineers" (quick-links) that are opened and closed with a wrench for permanent installations.
Give the wrench to your buddy (or throw it of the edge 😉).
Same here! I toss and turn too much for this.
Darwin award in progress.
People on lemmy are becoming judgemental like on reddit. This is probably safer than riding a motorbike on a public road, remember there aren't many rock climbing accidents and the gear is really safe when used properly.
Darwin award would be justified MAYBE if they were doing something wrong, or had forgotten a piece of gear at home. Wtf..
This is probably safer than riding a motorbike on a public road
Um, you're not really selling this. That's a pretty low bar.
the gear is really safe when used properly
Beside the point. I don't know where this is in the world, but there must have been options for more sensible places to stay the night. If there aren't, then it's a poor choice of climbing route. I'm critical of the decision making that put them overnighting here, not the sport of rock-climbing in general.
poor choice of climbing route
They had everything they needed to sleep there. One would think they planned to sleep there...
They had everything they needed to sleep there.
Except, you know... a place to sleep.
One would think they planned to sleep there...
That's kind of my point. They planned this (if you can call that planning), on purpose (and I assume not inebriated at the time).
Um, you're not really selling this. That's a pretty low bar.
Mate I'm quite risk averse but come on, you ever leave your house or too dangerous?
Mmm, I take plenty of risks, but for a purpose beyond assuaging my boredom. Heck, I've been up in a work harness many times, on a ship at sea (200ft above a metal deck with the waves rocking you back and forth is... interesting).
Without a reason to go there, this is just entertainment... expensive, high-risk entertainment.
Someone else mentioned these are pro climbers. Your previous arguments that this is unnecessarily risky, that they are idiots that cannot plan a route etc have already been addressed by me and others.
Now it turns out that you are acrually a cool kid that has a good reason to be high up in a harness but they don't, they are just bored and looking for entertainment. Whatever mate, surely it's them deserving the Darwin award here..
in nyc that'd cost 7500 a month
“$75 Airbnb cleaning fee”
"OK, there's no way they can tell us about their extended warranties up HERE, right?"
Love how rock climbing has some of the safest, most thoroughly tested gear in sports, but it always looks dangerous and that attacts all the "these guys are all idiots", "darwin award" and "i would probably die" people.
There's no good reason to do what these guys are doing, it's thrill seeking pursued by the kind of people that associate risky behavior with meaningful life experiences.
I feel like that logic could be applied to a lot of the things we do for fun.
Sure, but a lot of the things we do for fun do not involve the kind of risks that require a search and rescue team to pull you out of when you fuck up (or the wind just happens to blow a little harder than you expected that night).
The risk/reward calculation for this scenario is way off.
You keep pretending to be great at assessing risks from your armchair but forget that these two guys are professionals, and you know nothing about rock climbing or this particular situation, you haven't provided a singke reason why what they are doing is risky, or stupid. Anchors not bomber proof enough? Not enough redundancy? Too much slack? What is the problem exactly?
Yet you feel entitled to judge them. These are probably the guys that come and rescue you, when you do something stupid in the outdoors, not the other way around.
They're just having fun
I suppose the search and rescue team that has to pull them out of wherever will also be having fun (if not this climb then a future one).
This has always been a weird take, what do you think attracts people to that kind of SAR work? Generally a love for the outdoors and activities like this. You'll have a hard time finding someone capable of high angle rescue that doesn't enjoy or understand climbing as a sport.
There's a good reason to find out what you are capable of.
I am capable of... risk assessment.
Being an adrenaline junkie won't teach you anything about yourself that you couldn't learn otherwise. It can be a great distraction from actual self-discovery.
You think ypu are but you are probably not familiar with the sport and the gear. In terms of risk assessment IMO the riskiest part in lthis pic is they are not wearing a helmet!
Rock climbing really has little to do with adrenaline chasing and rock climbers are among the chilliest folks out there. Really all the people in this thread comparing it to base jumping or other crazy things should visit their local climbing gym and have an introductory session, give it a try its awesome.
These folks resting (presumably preparing to overnight?) On a ledge is not something you'd do as a beginner.
Yeah the last thing you want when climbing is an adrenaline rush. It’s slow, methodical concentration, plus flexibility, conditioning and endurance that make a good climber.
I’m tall and lanky, and had a decent amount of natural talent, but was never flexible enough to get past intermediate climbs. Now I have too much arthritis to get back into it.
Well no, I'm not on any technical level. But when you're doing something like this, you plan your route, right? Stopping here for the night seems like poor planning to me.
It's not the gear or the sport that I'm critical of, it's the decision making that put them sleeping on this ledge. With all the right gear and experience, it seems like they could've done... anything else.
I hate getting into these discussions.
This is Arnaud Petit and Stéphanie Bodet, two professional climbers with far more experience than you. They are doing the second ascent of a 900 meter 8a on Angel Falls (Rainbow Jambaia, 31 pitches) which is about the same height as El Capitan in Yosemite National Park. Here is a story about it. You almost never plan to climb routes this long in a single day, especially not on the second ascent. They most definitely planned to sleep on the wall and brought the proper equipment. This is called big wall climbing
Just be happy for people doing what they love and do what you love: your life will be better. We're all motivated by different things.
Incredible story from incredible athletes. It's a feat to do that and, would you look at that, it doesn't diminish anyone else's goals or aspirations either.
gets into the discussion
Yup, pretty sure I said that already... in the post you replied to... not sure why you're throwing it out like you think it detracts from what I said.
That makes sense, I'm sure it's too far to go without a decent rest. But if there's no safer option for a place to sleep, then why go this route at all?
Yes, that's my point. They planned to do this on purpose. I'm critical of the decision making.
OK, great, there's a term for it... that hardly makes it a safe or sane thing to do.
That's fine you can always play golf. Practice your risk assessment skills and superior planning abilities there no need to criticise.
One last time, this IS safe. I won't comment on the sanity part as you made it clear this is not your cup of tea, not sure why no one else should be allowed to get out of YOUR comfort zone though.
You can learn that without endangering your own life.
Nobody's life is in any real danger here. They and all their equipment are roped in on at least 3 redundant anchors (probably a number more). Rock climbing looks scary but with proper precautions and training it is not significantly riskier than other outdoor sports.
The level of ignorance from these commenters who know nothing of the sport but speak with such authority on it really reminds me of the worst of reddit.
When you sit behind a computer all day instead of living.
This is exactly what I was trying to say with my original comment.
Half pipes aren't exactly safe, Hony.
they needed a nap
https://www.tetongravity.com/story/news/your-chances-of-dying-ranked-by-sport-and-activity
Gear isn't the whole story. My running shoes are safe but a slip or getting hit by a car are always a risk. In the photo, the risk isn't necessarily the equipment: it's human error or the unpredictability of nature.
"OMG you're gonna get killed!"
I mean, a Magna CAN be temperamental.
This is a Suzuki GZ250, not a Magna.
OOps, I stand corrected, thanks!
Yeah, I think I'll just . . . not do that.
I mean I could, definitely, but I just don't really feel like doing it.
just gandering at the pic it looks like a crack route and you would most definitely not be doing that. a lot of strength, endurance, and technique for that.
Unnecessary bravery is identical to stupidity
Don't freak out, they would still be wearing their harness.
Well they are not wearing their helmets..
Helmets are more useful during the climbing phase, when the person above you might dislodge small rocks.
Absolutely the fuck no.
Uhh what if you wake up in the middle of the night and have to poop?
Probably shit over the edge if you can't hold it
"Those damm birds."
More like:
‘What the hell have those birds been eating‽’
taco bell
Lookout belooooooooow
They actually do this. There are some gross stories about it.
Omgod that's terrible. So messed up to not bring a bucket
Most responsible climbers bring something with them to pack it out, but there are some irresponsible ones that do what the comment above mentioned. That is the exception, not the rule though.
They are supposed to shit in small bags and take them with them and dispose them only when they are back to the ground. Of course nobody can control you, if you pop just down from the edge.
All the people in this thread acting like this is safe and reasonable. "It's okay because they still are wearing their harnesses". Okay... lol
proprioceptive input
You should read about it. It's quite interesting but it doesn't make this any less dangerous but it does make scenarios like this more interesting because the human brain and body are incredible. Not everyone has the best proprioceptive input.
I really want to do this one day.
I don't think I'd be able to sleep. I toss and turn so much I doubt I'd be able to stay on the ledge.
I think you'd subconsciously stop doing that. You do get larger platforms that double as tents. But whatever you take up, you have to climb up with, so the simpler, the better. My concern would be getting cold.
Ah, I see it's actually a ledge and not one of those wall bed things (<-- the technical term for them)
portaledge
They’re strapped and tied in if I recall
but y tho?
I'm a rock climber and it just seems really cool, also I'm sure it's some cool multi pitch climbing involved
I always just want to know seeing this how many have died hotelling cliffside.
Probably not many it's pretty safe if you're tied in.
Workplace safety harnesses are very different from climbing harnesses
Does a climbing harness provide more support if you are suspended in it? Or less?
I would say less. But you can spend hours sitting in it if need be. It's not always comfy but it's doable.
Totally different type of harness. Not applicable at all.
OK, this is a workplace safety notice so of course it's focused on a work harness. Is a climbing harness more extensive? Does it offer more support if you end up suspended in it?
If not then the risk of suspension trauma is higher than in a work harness.
Holy shit you know absolutely nothing. I've been rock climbing for more than a decade. You can sit in a climbing harness for hours and hours. It's not the most comfortable thing. But I've spent multiple hours sitting in harness's countless times in my life. I can't believe I'm even having this conversation with someone who knows absolutely nothing about what they are talking about.
For the sake of this photo they are tied into ropes coming up from below but they also have an anchor point above in the background and most likely a point directly on the ledge they are on. They will be tied into very short dynamic ropes for the majority of their time up there making it very difficult to fall more than a couple feet.
Well, I'd say it is something to expect: someone without experience is trying to understand, most likely in good faith. If anything, thank you for sharing your experience, I'd say it wasn't necessary to rant this much but at least you did give an educational reply, thank you for that
Climbing harnesses are usually sitting harnesses that are more padded around the legs and back than work harnesses are.
The bigger thing, though, is that suspension trauma typically happens when you're purely hanging. The amount of time you can hang in a void in a work harness is way, way shorter than the amount of time you can bounce off a wall in a work harness, particularly if you're able to support much of your weight with your feet.
For climbers, the main worry would be hanging around if you're somehow incapacitated from a heart attack or having been knocked out somehow, because workers are a lot more likely to be suspended over a void than climbers.
That's like arguing a condom is less effective at preventing pregnancy than a trash bag, because the condom isn't as big.
No, not really... the suspension trauma happens because the harness straps squeeze your arteries shut, blocking the bloodflow and causing stagnation. If the harness has fewer and/or thinner support straps then you will have the same body weight spread across fewer/smaller points, increasing the pressure and making the problem worse. Blood becomes hypoxic really quickly if it can't move.
I've given safety awareness training and first aid response training on this topic (for work, not for recreation).
I bet there are still a bunch of spiders up there.
Yeah, but would you do it IF YOU COULDN'T TELL ANYBODY?
In the words of dead Descartes: "I think not."
I know climbers who would absolutely do this and tell no one. Adrenaline can be its own reward.
Absolutely. And I aspire to that. Climbing rocks (pun intended)
I wanna know who took the picture, though. Someone is on that same vertical wall wielding a camera?
It could be a drone.
Sober people are fuckin' crazy.
I would definitely roll in my sleep and fall to my death
Might not look like it, but they're clipped in.
So you'd roll off the ledge, crack your head against the rock face and then bleed out, NOT fall to your death 👌.
I go to bed fully clothed and wake up without pants on, so there is no way a carabiner clip would save my lucid dreaming ass.
There are "carabineers" (quick-links) that are opened and closed with a wrench for permanent installations. Give the wrench to your buddy (or throw it of the edge 😉).
Same here! I toss and turn too much for this.
Darwin award in progress.
People on lemmy are becoming judgemental like on reddit. This is probably safer than riding a motorbike on a public road, remember there aren't many rock climbing accidents and the gear is really safe when used properly. Darwin award would be justified MAYBE if they were doing something wrong, or had forgotten a piece of gear at home. Wtf..
Um, you're not really selling this. That's a pretty low bar.
Beside the point. I don't know where this is in the world, but there must have been options for more sensible places to stay the night. If there aren't, then it's a poor choice of climbing route. I'm critical of the decision making that put them overnighting here, not the sport of rock-climbing in general.
They had everything they needed to sleep there. One would think they planned to sleep there...
Except, you know... a place to sleep.
That's kind of my point. They planned this (if you can call that planning), on purpose (and I assume not inebriated at the time).
Mate I'm quite risk averse but come on, you ever leave your house or too dangerous?
Mmm, I take plenty of risks, but for a purpose beyond assuaging my boredom. Heck, I've been up in a work harness many times, on a ship at sea (200ft above a metal deck with the waves rocking you back and forth is... interesting).
Without a reason to go there, this is just entertainment... expensive, high-risk entertainment.
Someone else mentioned these are pro climbers. Your previous arguments that this is unnecessarily risky, that they are idiots that cannot plan a route etc have already been addressed by me and others. Now it turns out that you are acrually a cool kid that has a good reason to be high up in a harness but they don't, they are just bored and looking for entertainment. Whatever mate, surely it's them deserving the Darwin award here..
That guy's just like "God Damn Paparazzi!"