Utah outlaws books by Judy Blume and Sarah J Maas in first statewide ban | State has ordered 13 books by seven authors, six of them women, to be removed from every public school classroom and library

silence7@slrpnk.net to politics @lemmy.world – 455 points – Utah outlaws books by Judy Blume and Sarah J Maas in first statewide ban
theguardian.com

The list of banned books is here

Read em while you can

96

Free speech in USA is a joke, it's both poorly protected and poorly regulated at the same time. Worst of both worlds!

So. I have this... Stance. Humanity has at no point evolved past tribalism. We all live in tribes. The tribe with the most power waxes poetic about the importance of free speech, but the truth is, they only allow as much free speech as allows their tribe to maintain their position. All the rest of our tribes can squabble over whatever remaining scraps of power are left after the controlling tribe is full up.

That's certainly true for some people.

But I don't see the Democrats out there banning books.

Speak for yourself. I'm all for banning ghostwritten books by conservative talking heads so they can launder money and game bestseller lists.

Going after them for fraud would work.

I mean honestly that's how it should work. If they're writing and publishing disinformation that's not in the "fiction" section then there should be some kind of regulatory backlash (same with news/entertainment etc). It's like letting someone re-write history textbooks... but I suppose that's been going on for a long time already.

Implementation guidelines say that banned materials must be “legally disposed of” and “may not be sold or distributed”.

So, a book burning. Got it.

Sounds like those author's free speech is being tread on.

For Republicans it only counts when it's their own free speech. After all, their psychology is "I get to tell you what to do but you don't get to tell me what to do."

They love the original Nazi book burning. They destroyed decades of research into human sexuality, homosexuality, and transgenderism.

WHAT.THE.FUCK.

Motherfuckin' can't read 'Superfudge' in Utah anymore? This is truly the darkest timeline.

Really? I assumed it would be Are You There God it's Me Margaret. What could they possibly find offensive about Superfudge?

What could they be against a book that mentions God in the title?

It's about a girl and her friends discussing menstruation, and wishing they could menstruate, and being jealous of other girls who already menstruate, and praying to God that they menstruate soon. I can see where that would frighten pearl clutchers.

Rhetorical! Thanks for the answer reminding us how against women these fuckers are though!

Tbf in not sure if.its against women or against bodily functions. I assume they'd probably have issues with a similar book about male puberty.

The people banning it are against books about Menstruation...........which women do...........

"An entire book about a girl asking if God is there!? What a waste of time! The answer is 'Yes, God is there.'. We just saved you like 10 hours! (Though sometimes he may let you suffer or die without ever showing himself. But he's a silly ole God, and it was probably for your own good anyways.)"

“I’m gonna need you to step back about 20 paces there… You’re talkin’ about a woman, reading?”

Whoa whoa whoa...women can read??????

WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK! I'VE BEEN LIED TO. CAN THEY ALSO VOTE AND BE OUT IN PUBLIC?????

If it takes you ten hours to read a Judy Blume book, that might be why you’re banning books.

It's listed in the article. It's "Forever" by Judy Blume. Not sure that I'm familiar with it.

"so, any progress on the school shooting problem?"

"nah, we needed to fix the superfudge problem. now we're going to work on the pokemon problem. it doesn't glorify god!"

Pokemon don't evolve! They become more intelligently designed!

Why can't we ever get rid of fascists? Every generation they try the same crap and get away with it.

Because the same people taking away the rights are the ones saying that we can't retaliate for taking away our rights.

I suspect it’s just a personality type. Maybe we could use eugenics to get rid of this undesirable trait. Oh wait. Dammit

Because they call themselves "conservatives" and insist they are legitimate, normal people with legitimate, normal viewpoints. This fools the normal people into a false sense of safety.

It’s the paradox of tolerance.

Leftists want to be tolerant of different beliefs and fascists use that against them.

We need to stop tolerating the intolerable.

Fake news!

You’re allowed to read them, it just has to be inside a dark bag with only magical stones for illumination.

with only magical stones for illumination.

Well, yeah. So they can identify and burn the witches.

My Catholic junior high school library is where I discovered Judy Blume. I probably read every single book of hers that they had, and there were a lot!

So…calm down, Utah. It’s okay.

It'd be funny if people who owned properties beside the schools just set up one of those take one leave one community street libraries filled with all the banned boom

They'd just ban those for operating without a license.

What license? They wouldn’t be a business.

First they came for the books, and I did not speak out, because I am an illiterate Republican.

FFS Utah, your lucky you have pretty rocks, but you got to knock this shit off.

Can we nuke the Moron theocracy yet or is that ffowned apon?

In a few years, all the toxic chemicals at the bottom of the great salt lake will take care of that after it dries up.

Yeah but then theyll roll back the Arizona and destroy any potential Idaho has, I want shadows not refugees.

Can you swoop into SLC and pick me up before the drop? I don’t want to go down with these disgusting fascist pig Mormons.

That list is 13 books by 7 authors.

Not good, but the summary is wrong.

Edit: the article needs some proof reading

Yeah. An editor checking the headline would help.

They've updated the subhead, and I've updated my post to match the current headline.

Yes. Banning fairy porn will fix all of society's ills.

Its not even very spicy fairy porn, if I am remembering right. Been a few years since I read the series.

My memory is lots of "wells" that go deeper and bonds that are stronger and orgasms that are brighter than she previously thought possible every single time and SOOO much my mate stuff. I find sex scenes boring so I skim through them. Absolutely nothing that was in anyway kinky though beyond maybe being pinned to the wall lol

Yeah, they really overused the "my power is limited by my subconscious" trope a bit much. Once, maybe twice would be fine, but every damn book she gained a new tier of super saiyan because someone pissed her off enough.

Also, Rand Al'Thor did the locked in a box thing better.

While I hate this, I'm left wondering why we even mention the authors gender.

Is it to indicate that lawmakers go against women's freedoms?

Yes. A lot of book bans have been focused on books written by women and minorities.

I didn't know that, my god it's so stupid.

Progressive districts need to get the bible and book of mormon banned

Outlaw Utah. Call it a day.

Sigh. Way to guarantee all the young adults are going to read the Twilight of shitty vanilla fairy melodramas.

Reading is something for everyone and anyone to enjoy. while a piece of art could have technical flaws and shortcomings, if someone enjoys it GREAT. We all like liking things. Don't shame them for liking something just because it makes you feel more well read.

Its also OK to point out when a piece of literature is badly written and, subjectively, not very good. The person you responded to was shitting on the work, you inferred the shame on the reader. One should not feel that a criticism of a work (however well founded the criticism is) is an attack or attempt to shame someone just because they happen to like it.

There are plenty of works that are popular but written like shit. Its fine to like them, and its fine to point out how the writing style is bad. As another example, Ready player one is somehow a popular story even though the writing is terrible. I would never shame someone for reading it, but I'm also not going to pretend like its a good book or not full of lazy references to popular media properties.

Maas is over-saturated and sucking the oxygen out of the room for people writing better things in the same genre. l will* die on that molehill. Any day of the week. Twice on Saturdays.

And as a side note, I like trashy novels? But its disingenuous to throw Court of Mist and Fury up against Anna Karenina and say these are equal works. Like whatever you like—it's fun to read self indulgent stuff, but also remember it is good to challenge yourself a bit from time to time.

No one is comparing those things You just came out and shat on an author and her gaining new readers. People who may suddenly discover a genre they love. You can have a correct opinion but still be a pretentious twat.

But I shat on the Court of Whatever series because it is not well written, and then you implied I should be ashamed for shaming people because all reading was great and equal, and then I gave an example how I didn't believe that necessarily to be true. The whole point is they could be discovering a better book if Terry Pratchett would have put more smutty bits in Tiffany Aching.

I do think you should be ashamed for shaming people for what they like. I think enjoyment of art is all great and equal and no one should be feel bad for liking something they like

You can disagree that people should really only like work that is worthy, or artists that are worthy. That's your hill.

Repeatedly said the exact opposite my guy. But as an artist, bad artists that phone it in=not as worthy? Yeah. I like this hill. It is verdant and good. Making good shit is hard. It would nice to live in a world where that effort was valued. You seem very earnest. I wish you the best with your Twilight vanilla fairy melodramas.

I am earnest. I don't read them but I remember my youth having media I liked that makes me cringe now. It's insulting the audience for enjoying something that is unfair.

Be as critical of the art and artists as you want. It is really elitist and mean to insult someone for enjoying it. Which IS what your first post did.

No. The first post was regretful that these books would get a boom in interest from their prohibition albeit of the low quality of their content—granted said like an ass, but, welcome to the internet.

You keep conflating low quality with shame. In a way that's increasingly reading as bit autobiographic. Like whatever you like—liking a thing doesn't excuse it from criticism. Yeah, I'd prefer the zeitgeist steer kids into reading better crafted works and not to mass marketed soulless trash. Is this really a problematic stance? Calling me a pretentious twat and an elitist because I am critical of a book series that ...you apparently never read? (I got up until the point when sheltered girl is abducted from abusive English garden boy by dark and brooding but misunderstood wing guy.) Tons of fantastical young adult books are written fantastically. But so far not by Maas.

Hey, I like that fairy melodrama.

I also like terrible things. It doesn't make them less bad.

Have you by chance read Black Prism by Brent Weeks? I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

Advocates of open debate and free speech everyone!

/s in case anyone didn't catch the sarcasm.

I'm not for banning books by any measure. I also don't have kids, so I don't really have a dog in this fight.

However, I've read all the Court of Thorns and Roses series and it does contain some pretty explicit sexual scenes and themes. I probably wouldn't want a child reading them until they were old enough to understand the use of sex in stories like this, and how you can tell the difference between healthy and unhealthy relationships. The books in my opinion are very fun reads, but I feel that they were written primarily for an adult audience.

No idea when a kid should start reading ACOTAR, as again I don't have kids. I'm not the right person to ask, but I'd argue that readers should be at least high school age for that series.

I haven't read any of the other books on that list, so I can't speak to those. It's very evident that whoever assembled that list isn't well read, because there's oodles more books with much worse content than ACOTAR that aren't banned. Off the top from books I read back in high school: American Psycho, Clockwork Orange, Blood Meridian, the list goes on...

I also don’t have kids, so I don’t really have a dog in this fight.

not really how it works.

you may never be going to school again, but it is still in your best interest to have good schools funded. they generate engineers that will invent new things you use and doctors who will one day take care of your heart attack.

and it is in your best interest not to be surrounded by idiots, to which reading books is part of the process.

I probably wouldn’t want a child reading them until they were old enough

Aren't that the republicans who spout nonsense like "i ain't co-parenting with the government"?

So maybe leave what books to read and when up to specific schools/parents/kids.

I mean. That's what I was saying? I'm not in favor of book bans, I'm in favor of parents being aware of the content their kids are consuming. If you as a parent want your kids to read ACOTAR, then that's your call. I'm not in favor of book bans or the government telling you what you can or can't read. Not sure where all this hostility is coming from.

I mean. That’s what I was saying?

first, you presented the fact you don't have kids, as if it somehow made you impartial in the discussion - i explained that is really not the case.

then you said "i am not for banning books, however..." and then you spent 3 paragraphs explaining why you consider these books really problematic for kids.

and as the aphorism says, anything before "but" does not really count 🤷‍♂️

Kids really start with relationships in middle school and by high school they are sexually active. There's nothing in ACOTAR that would surprise an American high school kid.

I did say that high school is where I could see this book being read. It may even be beneficial to read them in order to learn about abusive relationships.

I also don’t have kids, so I don’t really have a dog in this fight.

"I don't mind living in a dystopian shithole" vibes

Bit of a leap there, but hey, if you've got kids and you want them to read those books then I don't think anyone should be able to stop you. Your kid, your choice.

My only point is that I'd want to make sure my kid, if I had one, was able to understand the themes in the book before reading.

I was also making a point about other books with more violent or pornographic content not being on this reactionary banned book list, but everyone seems to have overlooked that. Oh well.

My children are grown, graduated and productive members of society. Still doesn't stop me for advocating for literacy and access for the next generations. If you want to live in a dystopian hellhole, only care about you and yours and see how far it gets you.

I'm glad you'd care about your kid, you should care about society's kids, because it's society that will keep the hospitals open etc.

I was also making a point about other books with more violent or pornographic content not being on this reactionary banned book list, but everyone seems to have overlooked that. Oh well.

see this is the part that falls flat for me. You've been to a library before right?

maybe?

See, they have these things, called LIBRARIANS. And Librarians know what's in their collections.

Do you really think the librarians are pushing printed smut on the kiddos?

Or could it just, maybe just possibly, be yet another culture war canard of BULLSHIT the right is pushing because they don't LIKE FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND EXPRESSION, LGBTQ folk etc - and are trying to suppress anything not chirstofascist?

USE YOUR FUCKING MELON.

"oh well"

yeah fuck that, it's easy to moan and go "what about the children" - WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN GETTING A FUCKING EDUCATION AND PEOPLE STOP FUCKING WITH LIBRARIANS?

oh well. fucking hell

Do you really think the librarians are pushing printed smut on the kiddos?

The latest instructions given to librarians from George Soros are to focus on turning kids trans by applying a special powder to the pages. Smut-pushing was voted down at the conference, but just barely, so it might come back next year. Stay tuned!

(/s, if that's not apparent)

So, it's not like these are part of any curriculum. No one is making, suggesting, recommending, or encouraging kids to read these books. So the ban is just simply censorship. (Except the list of banned books is sort of a recommendation in its own way.)

No matter what they say, this isn't about kids in any way. It's not about protecting them from things they aren't mature enough for. It's not restricting them to a certain grade level. It's outright censorship and it's fucking bullshit.

1 more...