Is there a word for mangled idiom that becomes commonplace

gedaliyah@lemmy.world to Ask Lemmy@lemmy.world – 127 points –

Like "does the Pope shit in the woods?" or "that train has sailed?"

Also, what good examples can you think of?

94

Malaphor

https://www.thoughtco.com/malaphor-word-play-1691298

See also as related:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondegreen

A mondegreen (/ˈmɒndɪˌɡriːn/ ⓘ) is a mishearing or misinterpretation of a phrase in a way that gives it a new meaning.[1] Mondegreens are most often created by a person listening to a poem or a song; the listener, being unable to hear a lyric clearly, substitutes words that sound similar and make some kind of sense.[2][3] The American writer Sylvia Wright coined the term in 1954, recalling a childhood memory of her mother reading the Scottish ballad "The Bonnie Earl o' Moray", and mishearing the words "laid him on the green" as "Lady Mondegreen".

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malapropism

A malapropism (/ˈmæləprɒpɪzəm/; also called a malaprop, acyrologia, or Dogberryism) is the incorrect use of a word in place of a word with a similar sound, either unintentionally or for comedic effect, resulting in a nonsensical, often humorous utterance. An example is the statement attributed to baseball player Yogi Berra, regarding switch hitters, "He hits from both sides of the plate. He's amphibious",[1] with the accidental use of amphibious rather than the intended ambidextrous. Malapropisms often occur as errors in natural speech and are sometimes the subject of media attention, especially when made by politicians or other prominent individuals.

Though this is not for idiomatic phrases, there's also misnomer, for when something is named in a misleading or inappropriate manner.

Though, different dictionaries seem to give different scope to what can and cannot be considered a misnomer, and others place different emphasis on precisely how the name is wrong qualifies it as a misnomer.

Cambridge lists 'dry cleaning' as an example, a process that involves liquid and is thus antithetical.

The focus is on something being named such that the obvious, plain reading of it implies the precise opposite.

Merriam Webster lists that its a misnomer to call a farmer a peasant, which is not antithetical but more along the lines of being rude, out of date.

Their conception of it is fairly broad: any name that is inaccurate for basically any reason, or even just a word that has offensive connotations due to inaccuracy.

Dictionary.com uses the examples of Chinese Checkers, a funny bone, and hay fever.

They focus the definition on the factual/historical inaccuracy of the term:

Chinese Checkers did not originate in China, a funny bone is actually a nerve, not a bone, and hay fever is not caused by hay, nor is it a fever.

Cambridge lists ‘dry cleaning’ as an example, a process that involves liquid and is thus antithetical.

Ehhh...man, I dunno about that example, Cambridge. Like, wouldn't sweeping involve cleaning something? Vacuuming?

That's not "Dry cleaning"

No, but if they're going to assert that cleaning involves liquid, they would be counterexamples to such an assertion.

"dry cleaning" is a specific term for a method of laundering clothes that DOES require a liquid, but not soaking the clothes in water.

Those things you mentioned are not counter examples, because they have nothing to do with "dry cleaning".

That's like if I point out that peanuts aren't actually nuts, and you respond with "but walnuts are nuts!"

Yeah, walnuts are nuts, but that doesn't have anything to do with peanuts and whether or not they are nuts.

They are focusing on the dry part of the term. Using a liquid during the process goes against the dry part.

I would tend to disagree with the Cambridge example, because liquids can be dry. "Dry" liquids are anhydrous, meaning they've been treated to remove any water.

Source: Am chemist and I teach O-Chem, which frequently uses dry solvents, like anhydrous acetone.

But PERC, the chemical used in "dry cleaning" is NOT a dry liquid, so the existence of dry liquids is also not relevant to their example.

I can't figure out if the confusion is caused by unfamiliarity with the term dry cleaning, or just a feeble grasp of logic.

PERC

Perchloroethylene (aka tetrachloroethene) is a completely non-polar compound, so, yes, it is a dry liquid.

Fair enough. My initial quick google research implied otherwise.

I'm not claiming to be an expert, although I'm not finding anything that uses the term dry liquid to refer to Tetrachloroethylene. Sounds to me like another misnomer. But, I won't say you're wrong.

Good pull. Malapropism has always been one of my favorite words and comedic devices, so this is good info. Bravo!

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go read an article about the Women's Lubrication movement and eat my hot astronomy on rye.

We'll drive off that bridge when we get to it

I can't believe you got such a simple saying wrong. It's not rocket surgery.

I need to start using this one, I already use "burn that bridge" fairly often

My buddy and I have a whole list of these…I started calling them masonism’s because he messes them up so often lol

“I don’t give a shit if he wrote the Mona Lisa!”

“I’m not attached to my hip!”

“I’m taking my own life…into my own hands!”

“How’s that for apples?”

“There’s not enough meat to play with”

“That’s a hit…and a miss!”

“If it weighs anything to you….”

“Jesus Christ! That’s slave robbery!

“Welp, I’m going to get hard at work”

“I’m making shit up out of my ass.”

“He was flopping back and forth” (flip flopping)

“I’m going to go tell this kid a piece of my mind…”

“Oh, here you go….you’re going to piss on my parade!”

“Don’t count your chickens before they turn into eggs.”

“Well isn’t that the horse calling the kettle black”

“Does a fat kid shit in the woods?”

“I can sleep through a rock!”

Ibanez AZ series guitars? Yea I know them like they’re in the back of my hand…”

“There’s a lot of onions to that…”

“I’m pulling it off my head”

“Knock the balls off!

-knock it out of the park/socks off

“That’s a double sided sword!”

 

“You can’t lead a horse to fish…”

“Well isn’t that the horse calling the kettle black”

I love this.

“Welp, I’m going to get hard at work”

Umm... Yeah, that TOTALLY never actually happens to me either.

I can't get hard at work because there’s not enough meat to play with =/

There's not enough meat to play with because I can't get hard at work!

Ahh! It's a Catch 22!

A malapropism? Does that apply? 🤔

That's like if you said "mute point" instead of "moot point."

How the hell should I know, I’m not a rocket surgeon

Arguably, a mechanic who is literally performing maintenance on exceptionally mechanically dense and complex parts of a rocket, say the rocket engine plumbing or wiring harnesses... is figuratively performing rocket surgery.

Or, taking a different perspective:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1433409/

Management of trauma and emergency surgery in space

As on Earth, the major determinant of emergency surgical care in spaceflight may be the presence or absence of a well-trained surgeon.

Sounds like they need a rocket surgeon!

Now, that one does have its place. I either it in an ironic sense that you dont need multiple degrees to do something. The flip side is that the people we send to space tend to be the most qualified people in multiple fields, a medical surgeon with a stem degree does not sound too far outside the realm of reason.

"It's not rocket surgery."

This one irks me. Combination of "rocket scientist" and "brain surgery".

Nothing holds a bar to this as being my favorites, but I generally don’t pay much mind to idioms—they’re all water under a duck’s back.

It's just people combining "it's not rocket science" and "it's not brain surgery". Just like the pope one.

Yes, that's exactly what I thought I had implied.

  • The grass is always greener in the hand.
  • You can lead a horse to water, but you can't look it in its mouth.
  • We'll burn that bridge when we come to it.
  • Caught with his pants in the cookie jar.

That last one... goddamn, that's amazing.

"Not the brightest cookie in the crayon box" is an amalgamation of 3 different sayings I've been trying to make happen. It won't happen.

My mom was fond of "Not the brightest egg in the drawer".

I do it in danish, but we have the idiom here too. I'll often make up a new one following the not the x y in the z template. E.g. Not the loudest spoon in the forest.

I'm running around like a chicken with its legs cut off.

Reminds me of my friend once saying that "the discussion leads nowhere. It's like the snake biting its tongue"

The correct term is Rickyism

"The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb." Meaning contracts, friendships, and keeping promises should take priority over family loyalty.

Now changed to "Blood is thicker than water" and means the exact opposite of the original.

Not the brightest bulb in the shed

In a similar vein, "not the sharpest spoon in the drawer"

I always liked "not the sharpest bulb in the tree".

(Because it kinda makes sense. Some Christmas lights have pointy bulbs. But nobody picks them for sharpness.)

I like ‘bob’s your oyster’ because both original phrases are nonsensical to me. Is there a word isometric to portmanteau but for phrases / idioms?

I thought "cakewalk" was a clever American amalgamation of "a piece of cake" and "a walk in the park".

Turns out it's actually related to slavery, so probably doesn't count.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater else you'll end up with a wet, critically injured baby.

When referring to a difficult task: "That's a tough road to hold", or "a tough road to hoe", or "a tough road to [travel on]" or "a tough road to... [trails off awkwardly...]", or just "a tough road".

It's a tough row to hoe.

It's an agricultural metaphor. The row is a line of dirt in a field where you plant seeds. You use a hoe to dig the lines, remove weeds, and create little holes where you drop the seeds. Hoeing may be difficult if the soil is too hard or too full of rocks and weeds. Such a row would be a tough one to hoe.

I understand how you got there, but it sounds like a tough hoe to plow.

I thought most hoes would be quite easy to plow

All the more reason to emphasize the tough ones!

Also, have you SEEN inflation lately?!?!?

So, lots of examples, but not much on your question about terminology. In looking around a bit, I couldn't find a single specific term for a malapropism that "sticks," but you could fairly describe it as a form semantic drift driven by catachresis, thought the latter seems more common in literary criticism or philosophy than in linguistics.

catachresis

Ha! Here you are answering the actual question but nobody cares!

Amazing. I had never seen this word before.

Even then, I can't quite find a single Linguistics term for this phenomenon, where it becomes a thing of its own or even replaces the original. 'Eggcorn' and 'Malaphor' seem to be pretty decent casual terms.

Almost thought you'd done one yourself there with this "even then"! But I was thinking of even still (from even so). Which BTW is probably in my top 3 most hated malaphors or catachreses or whatever they are.

I don't know about the "becomes commonplace" part, but mangled idioms are generally called "malapropisms".

Current pet peeve: "to step foot on". Facepalm! Just coz somebody misheard "set" doesn't make "step foot" grammatical. And yet here we are.