I selected it by default in my settings, but it keeps going back to "Local"
Yeah I just remember to check every time...I'm sure that's one of those things that is just a little jenky that will improve with time!
Go into your profile settings, you can select what it defaults to and in the case of the Jerboa it defaults both desktop and the app.
I recommend default sort to NewComments.
Yeah I think this is a bug in the web code but a fix has already been made for the next release.
kbin is working much better than lemmy on that front.
I agree that kbin is less buggy. However there’s something in the user interface that confuses me a little, mostly with the way pictures are placed in the feeds.
But it’s more polished and theres a great "feel" to it. Can’t wait to see where it goes.
Yeah you can definitely tell kbin was made by more of a design guy.
Can you see Lemmy on kbin?
Yep, hello from Kbin! It's all federated together and in the same format. Kbin was designed to be directly compatible with Lemmy.
Mine doesn’t do this, iv changed my settings and the settings stick. Potentially the instances you chose. Not sure
I'm just sticking to lemmy.world for now. It doesn't have all the communities I want yet but it seems more open than the others. I don't like walled gardens or gated communities. If I wanted a platform with power hungry, elitist moderators creating circle jerk in-groups, I would have stayed on Reddit.
Same. I joined .world randomly because I didn't understand Lemmy when I joined, but I made the right decision!
Yeah same. I did shop around a bit on other instances but i decided the general purpose one here was the most sensible for me.
Same with me and I'm ultimately super happy with my Lemmy experience so far. I've been on since the 11th and the experience gets better every day.
Preach
You know you can connect to any community on another server regardless of your instance right?
Not necessarily. As someone else pointed out in this thread, beehaw is currently set up so that Lemmy.world users can view and comment on posts on beehaw communities, but those comments can only be seen by other lemmy.world users. Individual instances can restrict what users from other instances can do.
5 Accounts are still unnecessary.
And it sounded like he created an account on every server that contained an interesting community for him
5 Accounts are still unnecessary.
That's true.
I just like that the image previews don’t look like flat rectangles the way they do on kbin.
just pick one, you only need one, and you see posts from the other 3 from that one source. hi from kbin, viewing and commenting from kbin right now
If OPs only account was on Beehaw, we wouldn't see this post or am I missing something?
We would not, because Beehaw users cannot access the lemmy.world instance.
Why have more than one? For more pleasure!
You don't need to do all that, you only need one account as they are all federated, meaning they can talk to each other.
The exemption is beehaw, because they are defederating temporarily to put less strain on the servers
It's not about the servers, it's about moderation. They have a clear vision of what their instance should be like but they don't have the tools not moderators to make it so while getting traffic from other big instances
in the future when they possibly have more moderators and the influx of users has slowed down on lemmy.world, would it be easy to federate again? i know many instances defederate from others that go against their beliefs or how they want to run the community, but ive not heard of any that have re-federated
I saw a post by one of the lemmy.world admins who said they had a discussion with the beehaw admins and their ideals align enough that they think they will federate again once moderation has gotten under control.
Not to be too much of a pedant, but I think the messaging is important: it's not about how many moderators, it's about moderation tools. Lemmy's are a little too rudimentary for what they want.
Anyway, refederation would entail taking lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works off their blocklist. That would allow users on those instances to subscribe again and comment/post. That part would be user-initiated. Then on the Beehaw side, they'd have to subscribe again to lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works communities. That part would also be user-initiated.
This is hearsay, but I believe it is temporary until better moderation features are developed and user influx shows down.
Careful, I said something like that and a guy posted a thousand word rant at me bitching about reddit refugees asking for more reddit lol, I was like chill dude I just want a simple platform to shitpost on without a phd in the lemmiverse or whatever jeez
Yeah, some people are reaaaalllyy into the fediverse. It's okay tho
That meme is 11 years old now.
Shocking.
As a web developer who feels fairly knowledgeable of most things web, even I have a hard time wrapping my head around the Fediverse, how to use it, and the broader implications. If the folks that have been using it for more than the past week and a half do anything but inform and encourage, it will just drive away the people needed most to bring about widespread adoption.
There's not much to it really. You make an account on an instance that takes your fancy, then click "All" instead of "Local" to see content from other instances. You can subscribe to other comms in other instances just the same as the local ones.
The only barriers are defederation (beehaw.org has defederated from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, also some have defederated from lemmygrad.ml) and editing. Defederation means you cannot see posts between instances, while edited comments appear to only be stored on the true host instance and aren't synced federally (I think the comments only sync when they're created).
kbin and lemmy federate with each other. You only need one account and you can view posts from any instance*
Except for those that choose to defederate, like beehaw. But that's their choice to make a walled-off community.
At first it was
"You only need one account, it's like an email, they all federate with each other"
I was reeeaally excited for the prospect. (I still am btw)
But now it's more like
"your account here can see that instance and that one too -- but it's buggy so sometimes it takes time to sync -- anyway you cannot see that one for that one you need a distinct account-- oh and if that instance decide to defederate then you'll need another account for there too".
I'm still into the Fediverse, it's just we still have things to figure out.
The good thing is I think most of these issues are a design issue that can be solved client side rather than fundamental flaws in the architecture.
For example, if you go to comment on a Beehaw thread and the app just showed some kind of prompt, e.g. "Sign-up to Beehaw or an instance federated with Beehaw to comment on this sublemmy" I think it would feel pretty straightforward.
All the confusion with how federation works is something a well designed app could explain to users as they explore. Obviously it will just take time for the platform to mature to this stage.
beehaw is still federated with kbin.social but they've recently dropped lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works. They have a page that shows where they're linked and where they're not: https://beehaw.org/instances
They also recently posted they forsee refederating with sh.itjust.works in the future once things chill. No word on lemmy.world, yet.
I just wish there were a way for me to write a short bio listing my username on other servers/platforms in-case they get defederated for one reason or another--but such is beta life...
but you can do that... eg. check out my profile and you should see my bio just fine
Your link is broken
My link? I didn't post a link... Maybe it's a Lemmy issue, everything works as expected on kbin
But if the one you choose "defederates" can you yourself move over to another one?
On mastodon yes, so that feature should come to the Reddit-likes soon enough
Exact same feel but with Boost for Reddit
Everyday I learn of another 3rd party app for reddit which I didn’t knew existed. It shows how big reddit has become over the years and how spez has screwed over sooooo many people with that decision.
He doesn’t care. All he wants is the IPO to cash out.
It bums me out so much. I was a Boost user for a solid 5~ years, been on reddit for about 5½. Finally deleted my account earlier this morning
So you think this Lemmy thing will catch on? It needs some critical mass but I kind of like it.
I hope so. While I'm missing like 75% of the subreddits I used to frequent, I have the skeleton of it covered. With time hopefully it'll bulk up, especially with the huge influx of new users
I think we'll see some more growth in a couple weeks when the 3rd party apps actually stop working.
Relay for me. I really hope that someone ends up implementing some kind of translation layer for the reddit API that would encourage the existing reddit apps to supper Lemmy.
That would be a spectacular idea.
And I'm happy to see another Relay user. They seemed to be left out of the lists even though they've got a fantastic app
Relay said they are going to try $3/month subscription model.
I definitely got my money's worth out of Relay Pro, but I can't justify the subscription.
Relay user here. I love Relay. Dbrady is the best. And I have no problem supporting him at $3 a month, but f* reddit after all this. I'm not giving them a penny.
Yeah my problem with the 3 bucks is that 2.50 of it is going straight to reddit's rent seeking. I hope it works out with dBrady and relay, but it will be without me.
I'm not even convinced at $3/mo he won't be in the red.
Users should be getting paid for contributing to reddit, not paying for the privilege. We create the data that reddit gets its revenue from.
I find Jerboa to be similar enough for the moment, but it still has a long way to go to match Boost in it's comfort and feature richness.
Jerboa is fine, but it's not "years and years of polish" quality yet. Which is totally okay, everything has to start somewhere and the app works for most things which is enough to not be too annoying.
Is boost gone? I uninstalled it
Not yet, but Ruben will not be able to handle the costs, so it dies with the other ones on the 30th or so.
I have no idea. I logged out of my account on the 11th and I deleted the app on the same night.
Nope, I used it today to check up on a bit of drama in my favorite band's subreddit
I just joined .world because it sounded the most logical
"Oh it says world, that probably means i can see things all over the world"
I'm not disappointed
World here too on the Jerboa app, I'm subscribed to a BUNCH of communities in other instances and can browse and comment on them all with my world profile. Still kinda confused how it all works but I'm liking it so far
I have yet to figure out how to discover communities on other servers on jerboa. I currently just subscribe to communities on the browser which I then can see in the app.
Home screen, menu at upper left, click "All". I also recommend changing the filter option to "Hot", which is one of the buttons on the top right.
You don't need multiple accounts, one account can access all different instances, including subscribing to remote communities. You just have to click "All" in the communities or post list to see them, instead of "Local".
Except for beehaw.org defederating from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, and I think some defederated from lemmygrad.ml.
Also it should be said that edited comments don't seem to pass across the instances. I think they only sync when the comment has been made.
You don’t need multiple accounts, one account can access all different instances
You need a kbin account to find out if you find kbin better than lemmy.
Did beehaw.org defederate from lemmy.world ? I'm on Lemmy world and see posts from beehaw. Is there a way to check who is federated with who like some kind of map?
If I'm not mistaken, you can see the posts and can even comment, but only people on lemmy.world will see your comment. People from beehaw and other instances won't see it. That's because lemmy.world haven't defederated from beehaw.
You can see which instances are blocked here: https://beehaw.org/instances. It's in the bottom of the page of every instance home page or just add '/instance' after the instance's address.
That's actually a really clever approach
I'm new to this. I have one question. Imagine the following setup:
Instance A federates with instances B and C
Instance B only federates with instance C
Instance C federates with instance A and B
Following scenario:
Someone on instance B posts something and writes a comment to the post
I'm on instance A and I comment on his comment
Now someone from instance C comments on my comment
What does a person from instance B see now? I assume he won't see my comment as instance B defederated instance A. But he should see the comment from the instance C guy. But how can he see the reply when the original comment is not visible?
Good question!
I think if you do that the little red light would stop blinking and you'd break the internet.
Federation is by definition a union, a mutual agreement. A and B are either federated or they aren't, there is no "A is federated with B but B is not federated with A".
So if A and B are federated and B and C are federated but not A and C, and your scenario happens, the person on B sees your comment but the person on C doesn't see it and can't reply to it.
undefined> A is either federated with B or it isn’t, there is no “A is federated with B but B is not federated with A”
Maybe I used the word "federated" wrong here. I thought it meant "being linked to another instance". To give an example of what I meant: the instance "lemmy.world" is linked to the instance "beehaw.org" while the instance "lemmy.world" is blocked on "beehaw.org".
Yeah, that's federation. In terms of the principle in government as well as its application in the lemmy protocol.
lemmy.world and beehaw.org are defederated. However, this doesn't mean that you can't see beehaw posts as a lemmy.world user, or vice versa. But (let's say you're a lemmy.world user) if you comment on a beehaw post, you're commenting on a replicated version of the post that is hosted on lemmy.world. It is not synced with the original post hosted on beehaw, and you will only be able to see comments from other lemmy.world users and comments from before beehaw defederated.
Thanks that makes sense. I understand that if I'm on a third instance that is federated with both lemmy.world and beehaw.org, and I click on a beehaw.org post then I would not be able to see comments from lemmy.world users. But I would be able to see comments from beehaw.org users and they would see comments from my instance.
Yep the original post on the beehaw instance is like a master record of the post that lives on their server and only their users and users from federated instances can interact with it. Meanwhile the act of a lemmy.world user subscribing to a given beehaw community triggers the lemmy.world instance to archive posts there and create separate self-contained records of them which only lemmy.world users can interact with
Honestly I'm not sure, I'm also quite new to the fediverse. My guess is that being a parent comment, B wouldn't see it, but if C was the parent and A the child comment, B would see only C.
Someone else explained this pretty well in an answer. If that guy is correct neither users from instance B nor C will see the comment from the A instance user. This is because the post is hosted on instance B. And A-B are not federated (because of the block from B's side). This causes the comments from A to not be synched with B and therefore also not with C by proxy.
When were they posted? You should see ones from before.
Reading an image, page refreshes, lose image. I wish I could turn off the auto-refresh or reduce the interval.
Yes, this is so annoying!
They're working on removing this. When you read about the dev "stripping out websockets" that's part of what's changing.
Where did you see this? GitHub?
Yes I forget exactly where but it was on GitHub
If you go to the next page, it stops doing that. Also doesn't do it on the Jerboa app.
oh damn, I hope it uses the browser cache to speed up image reloading
I really hope that some of the reddit clients switch over to lemmy
Or even better, start offering both
Like NewPipe for YouTube. It pulls YouTube videos but also other PeerTube federated instances
Beehaw told me not to join unless I could say specific groups I wanted to join. Nah from me.
I'm loving it honestly. I've gotten myself into a complete fankle with I think five different logins, but it's great. I've made a couple of posts even. Having always been a lurker, I now feel more like a participant rather than a consumer. I don't want a monolith, I like the neighborhood feel, having to figure things out, knit up the threads myself.
From Kbin you can subscribe to whatever sublemmies you're interested in as if they were magazines.
You could also do the same in reverse from Beehaw/Lemmy.world, but KBin currently doesn't federate properly (due to Cloudflare DDoS protection.)
Kbin has been back to federating for a couple days now, hi from Kbin!
For me subscribing isn't the issue... it's seeing the subscription afterwards that I can't seem to do.
Haha sublemmy So cute <3
How do you subscribe to lemmy communities from kbin? I have an account on there can look at the local stuff, but struggling to search and find things lemmy wide.
When you are the first person from your instance to subscribe to another instances community, it takes up to 15 seconds from searching for your instance to download and show it.
I have had good luck pasting the full web address of the instance/c/community into the search.
Yeah a waited a little. Which is unlike me tbh ha. Ah so if its worked for you with full address must just have been a hiccup when I've tried than thanks
Just type the name of the group in the search bar like so:
Was trying this but no results. Thanks will keep trying
Federation has been janky. The whole site has been janky, with 500 and 503 errors, and all sorts of things.
It's just going through growing pains.
If you look at the main page, using 'All' (under the hamburger menu), a lot of what you see there will actually be from remote communities. Currently, kbin doesn't do a great job of surfacing the fact that those communities are remote, but if you hover over the community names, many of them will be formatted like /m/topic@someother.website. Those are remote communities.
Right, was wondering how to see what wasn't local also. Thanks
Are you on mobile or desktop? Mobile has a separate search bar for magazines but I haven't seen a distinction on desktop.
Mobile with firefox. Was trying the general searchbar. Didn't see the one in magazines thanks
Click on Magazines and use the search tool there. The global search doesn't appear to work. When you search for a community you can search with the full name (lemmyworld@lemmy.world) or just a term (wall street). If you use a full address, don't include the leading @ or !, it won't return any results. And the search isn't like google. Wall street will return different results than wallstreet, for instance.
I've just managed to find a community instead of the general search results from general. Used the @lemmyworld@lemmy.world I'm guessing reading everyones experiences that's its just a bit flaky and probably more likely when i've search is the issue not what . thanks for the tips
Search for @lemmyworld@lemmy.world
Click subscribe.
Ah I've probably been getting syntax wrong. Was not using the @ and trying full address like on lemmy search, amongst other formats. Thanks will give it another go
I haven't seen a cloudflare today. It might be off now.
This will die down eventually: at the moment there are many different independent ideas of how to build federated reddit alternatives that have yet to really be tested for how the underlying systems and moderation tools scale.
In due time there's going to be a standard application or at least standard exchange format between the different services, that just doesn't happen right now since all methods are really new and now get "suprise load tested".
That's also why you experience outages and Beehaw explicitly asking people not to join: everything went from "fringe techdemo" to "the internet is moving off of reddit" in a matter of less than a week (same thing is true with app support) and everything is at its breaking point: from the underlying technology to new communities appearing in a matter of hours to days (usually with less experienced moderators).
I need a damn explain it to me like I'm five for how all this works. My brain can wrapped it up into neighborhoods or space fleets but the in an out communications are the part I'm missing.
The Fediverse is like a group of interconnected neighborhoods, each representing a different social platform or community. Just as you might have neighbors on your street who interact and share things over time, these communities can communicate and exchange ideas. These neighborhoods may differ in size or focus, but they all exist within a larger universe - just like planets orbiting around a sun. In this case, think of our star system as something like Friendica (the first step towards the modern fediverse) and Diaspora* (itself originally based on Friendica). And just as there might be traffic or communication issues between planetary systems, there could be friction between distinct Fediverse networks. But ultimately, we’re still talking about a united whole here! Finally, imagine spaceships zipping back and forth through space linking up these distinct points of interest - say hello to the protocols bridging connections between decentralized nodes known as “federation” today. It’s all connected!
It's the defederation I'm still confused. That ship (Beehaw) left the fleet and locked down it's ship. What are the communication rules?
From my understanding, posts on beehaw won't populate on defederated instances. And defederated instance posts wont show on beehaw. There's also no requests sent or received from beehaw to update the beehaw posts with defederated data.
Defederated instance users can still go to posts directly on beehaw and they might be able to comment, but no one on beehaw will see it. It's basically "read-only" for defederated instances.
Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
It's up to the individual server who they federate with.
If you want a gated community, or you want to cut ties with an instance that is full of spam or unwanted content, that's still possible.
In the swarm of starships, you aren't obligated to dock with everyone.
Ok. But we can still see their feeds ie beehaw games, so is that the people on that server won't see comments from people outside their instance?
Yeah, it's read-only.
IMO that's still better than other sites, where they don't federate at all.
On Reddit, you can screencap something, and paste a static image. You can't see the comments underneath at all.
I expect instances that don't fully federate will grow slower, so it won't matter, most content will be on instances that are open to fully connecting with others.
I came up with what I think is a pretty good explanation when trying to explain the beehaw fiasco to a friend last night, here it is copy pastad
Think of it like cell service
You have TMobile, I have Google fi
But we can still talk because they both use 4g
But then Google fi blocked TMobile so I can't talk to you anymore
And if I want to be able to talk to people on TMobile and Google fi I would have to transfer my service to att
But also, the service is free to setup and run on your own
So instead of 3 or 4 big cell carriers there are thousands
Also, some added info:
Also, with the fediverse, when you transfer service you can take your data with you
Just like you can take your text messages and phone number with you
Fediverse meaning all the apps that work this way, like mastodon and Lemmy (at least those two one have data transfers I think)
Edit: can't transfer account
You can't move your account to another instance atm if that's what you mean.
So how do we know we're choosing a good instance?
I think we don't for now. I think we just have to accept we might have to change instances once in a while, especially while things settle.
Oh. Thanks for clearing that up for me
It's kind of like I have gmail and you have protonmail but we can still send emails to each other. Conversely emails from @nigerianprince.com will probably get spam filtered and you won't be able to communicate with them.
Well beehaw defederated Lemmy.world so you won’t see that stuff. Well they won’t see yours anyways so you won’t get to interact with them.
I honestly think we should just ditch beehaw at this point, this move will just make things way more complicated and probably keep many people from bothering to learn how it all works. You shouldn't have to visit 3-4 different sites to see the most popular lemmy content
I agree, they don't deserve to be one of the popular instances. They gathered a large userbase and just isolated it. If they wanted to be some special safe space, they should've specified that in the beginning instead of overcomplicating everything the way they did. People keep saying it's their choice, and it is, but in the same way it's Reddit's choice to kill off 3rd party apps.
It's an interesting situation, defederating.
Defederated instances can see the instance that cut them off and can comment, but they (beehaw in this case) won't see their comments. However, if they refederate later when better mod tools exist, all the comments will (be able to) flood in, right?
If so, they'll need to be able to handle it in some way that enables them to maintain compatibility with their instance ethos.
Thank you! That's fucking dumb though. Just more of the same I've seen everywhere else on Lemmy, "I know this isn't Reddit or designed to be Reddit and was explicitly designed to NOT be Reddit, but WHY ISN'T IT REDDIT AND WHEN WILL IT BE REDDIT?!"
Seriously, half that post is "While we left a central authority to escape central authority, we will be working until this becomes a central authority to avoid all the things about decentralization that make it decentralized"
Really wish all the people who want a Reddit clone would just........go to one of the Reddit clones.
They describe their philosophy as semi-authoritarianism, just some benevolent dictators lmao.
"We want Reddit but we couldn't go to a Reddit clone because we wanted a Reddit clone WE were in charge of but coding is hard"
I'm liking the UI, experience on mobile could be a bit better though
Couldn't agree more! I tried out mastodon and both versions, web and mobile, are friendlier than Lemmy. But I couldn't get behind the twitter thing. Never liked the twitter format and wasn't really getting through. Lemmy has a better format for me, but a bit clunkier. Sure it will get better soon
Who said you need an account on each one?
Something something multiple instances (if you register with Beehaw, you can't access threads to Lemmy/lemmy.ml)...
just means screw beehaw, everything else seems accessible no point in catering to a single instance
Just create an account on an instamce that federates both lemmy.world and beehaw, like the one I'm currently on.
Also lemmy.fmhy.ml
Doesn't bother me.
@msdos622 love your username
C:> cls
C:> dir
C:> edit autoexec.bat
Those were the good ol’days
And CONFIG.SYS, of course!
I recall messing with HIMEM.SYS init lines, and dealing with the difference between extended and expanded memory depending on game...
Good times!
Win.ini if you're ancient
That reminded me of something. What was autoexec.bat ???
Just make sure you sort your front page by All instead of Local. Then you can use just one of the three accounts you created and you don't lose anything.
Kbin > All > New is all you need.
Try Memmy or Mlem if you’re on iOS to replace Apollo, still work in progress but getting there
Jerboa on Android too. A work in progress, but nice.
Yeah but isn't it more fun that way??
i was confused for a little while too, created a few accounts and was floundering. the setup will be different for everyone but currently i have a tab open with mastodon and i'm following a few seperate instances there. then i have lemmy.world also open and i have stuff from different lemmy instances and kbin coming in to my feed.
Try Memmy or Mlem if you’re on iOS to replace Apollo, still work in progress but getting there
Select "all" rather than "local" and you'll see content from all federated instances.
Thanks, SpaceNoodle <3
Keep in mind Beehaw defederated us so no communications between them and lemmyworld
Why did Beehaw defederate?
Edit: Nevermind, found it: https://beehaw.org/post/567170
I selected it by default in my settings, but it keeps going back to "Local"
Yeah I just remember to check every time...I'm sure that's one of those things that is just a little jenky that will improve with time!
Go into your profile settings, you can select what it defaults to and in the case of the Jerboa it defaults both desktop and the app.
I recommend default sort to NewComments.
Yeah I think this is a bug in the web code but a fix has already been made for the next release.
kbin is working much better than lemmy on that front.
I agree that kbin is less buggy. However there’s something in the user interface that confuses me a little, mostly with the way pictures are placed in the feeds.
But it’s more polished and theres a great "feel" to it. Can’t wait to see where it goes.
Yeah you can definitely tell kbin was made by more of a design guy.
Can you see Lemmy on kbin?
Yep, hello from Kbin! It's all federated together and in the same format. Kbin was designed to be directly compatible with Lemmy.
Mine doesn’t do this, iv changed my settings and the settings stick. Potentially the instances you chose. Not sure
I'm just sticking to lemmy.world for now. It doesn't have all the communities I want yet but it seems more open than the others. I don't like walled gardens or gated communities. If I wanted a platform with power hungry, elitist moderators creating circle jerk in-groups, I would have stayed on Reddit.
Same. I joined .world randomly because I didn't understand Lemmy when I joined, but I made the right decision!
Yeah same. I did shop around a bit on other instances but i decided the general purpose one here was the most sensible for me.
Same with me and I'm ultimately super happy with my Lemmy experience so far. I've been on since the 11th and the experience gets better every day.
Preach
You know you can connect to any community on another server regardless of your instance right?
Not necessarily. As someone else pointed out in this thread, beehaw is currently set up so that Lemmy.world users can view and comment on posts on beehaw communities, but those comments can only be seen by other lemmy.world users. Individual instances can restrict what users from other instances can do.
5 Accounts are still unnecessary. And it sounded like he created an account on every server that contained an interesting community for him
That's true.
I just like that the image previews don’t look like flat rectangles the way they do on kbin.
just pick one, you only need one, and you see posts from the other 3 from that one source. hi from kbin, viewing and commenting from kbin right now
If OPs only account was on Beehaw, we wouldn't see this post or am I missing something?
We would not, because Beehaw users cannot access the lemmy.world instance.
Why have more than one? For more pleasure!
You don't need to do all that, you only need one account as they are all federated, meaning they can talk to each other.
The exemption is beehaw, because they are defederating temporarily to put less strain on the servers
It's not about the servers, it's about moderation. They have a clear vision of what their instance should be like but they don't have the tools not moderators to make it so while getting traffic from other big instances
in the future when they possibly have more moderators and the influx of users has slowed down on lemmy.world, would it be easy to federate again? i know many instances defederate from others that go against their beliefs or how they want to run the community, but ive not heard of any that have re-federated
I saw a post by one of the lemmy.world admins who said they had a discussion with the beehaw admins and their ideals align enough that they think they will federate again once moderation has gotten under control.
Edit: it was actually the sh.itjust.works admin
Edit 2: here's the link to the post: https://sh.itjust.works/post/129725
Anyone have a link for the curious?
Found it again: https://sh.itjust.works/post/129725
Not to be too much of a pedant, but I think the messaging is important: it's not about how many moderators, it's about moderation tools. Lemmy's are a little too rudimentary for what they want.
Anyway, refederation would entail taking lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works off their blocklist. That would allow users on those instances to subscribe again and comment/post. That part would be user-initiated. Then on the Beehaw side, they'd have to subscribe again to lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works communities. That part would also be user-initiated.
This is hearsay, but I believe it is temporary until better moderation features are developed and user influx shows down.
Careful, I said something like that and a guy posted a thousand word rant at me bitching about reddit refugees asking for more reddit lol, I was like chill dude I just want a simple platform to shitpost on without a phd in the lemmiverse or whatever jeez
Yeah, some people are reaaaalllyy into the fediverse. It's okay tho
That meme is 11 years old now.
Shocking.
As a web developer who feels fairly knowledgeable of most things web, even I have a hard time wrapping my head around the Fediverse, how to use it, and the broader implications. If the folks that have been using it for more than the past week and a half do anything but inform and encourage, it will just drive away the people needed most to bring about widespread adoption.
There's not much to it really. You make an account on an instance that takes your fancy, then click "All" instead of "Local" to see content from other instances. You can subscribe to other comms in other instances just the same as the local ones.
The only barriers are defederation (beehaw.org has defederated from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, also some have defederated from lemmygrad.ml) and editing. Defederation means you cannot see posts between instances, while edited comments appear to only be stored on the true host instance and aren't synced federally (I think the comments only sync when they're created).
kbin and lemmy federate with each other. You only need one account and you can view posts from any instance*
At first it was
"You only need one account, it's like an email, they all federate with each other"
I was reeeaally excited for the prospect. (I still am btw)
But now it's more like
"your account here can see that instance and that one too -- but it's buggy so sometimes it takes time to sync -- anyway you cannot see that one for that one you need a distinct account-- oh and if that instance decide to defederate then you'll need another account for there too".
I'm still into the Fediverse, it's just we still have things to figure out.
The good thing is I think most of these issues are a design issue that can be solved client side rather than fundamental flaws in the architecture.
For example, if you go to comment on a Beehaw thread and the app just showed some kind of prompt, e.g. "Sign-up to Beehaw or an instance federated with Beehaw to comment on this sublemmy" I think it would feel pretty straightforward.
All the confusion with how federation works is something a well designed app could explain to users as they explore. Obviously it will just take time for the platform to mature to this stage.
beehaw is still federated with kbin.social but they've recently dropped lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works. They have a page that shows where they're linked and where they're not:
https://beehaw.org/instances
They also recently posted they forsee refederating with sh.itjust.works in the future once things chill. No word on lemmy.world, yet.
I just wish there were a way for me to write a short bio listing my username on other servers/platforms in-case they get defederated for one reason or another--but such is beta life...
but you can do that... eg. check out my profile and you should see my bio just fine
Your link is broken
My link? I didn't post a link... Maybe it's a Lemmy issue, everything works as expected on kbin
But if the one you choose "defederates" can you yourself move over to another one?
On mastodon yes, so that feature should come to the Reddit-likes soon enough
Exact same feel but with Boost for Reddit
Everyday I learn of another 3rd party app for reddit which I didn’t knew existed. It shows how big reddit has become over the years and how spez has screwed over sooooo many people with that decision.
He doesn’t care. All he wants is the IPO to cash out.
It bums me out so much. I was a Boost user for a solid 5~ years, been on reddit for about 5½. Finally deleted my account earlier this morning
So you think this Lemmy thing will catch on? It needs some critical mass but I kind of like it.
I hope so. While I'm missing like 75% of the subreddits I used to frequent, I have the skeleton of it covered. With time hopefully it'll bulk up, especially with the huge influx of new users
I think we'll see some more growth in a couple weeks when the 3rd party apps actually stop working.
Relay for me. I really hope that someone ends up implementing some kind of translation layer for the reddit API that would encourage the existing reddit apps to supper Lemmy.
That would be a spectacular idea.
And I'm happy to see another Relay user. They seemed to be left out of the lists even though they've got a fantastic app
Relay said they are going to try $3/month subscription model.
I definitely got my money's worth out of Relay Pro, but I can't justify the subscription.
Relay user here. I love Relay. Dbrady is the best. And I have no problem supporting him at $3 a month, but f* reddit after all this. I'm not giving them a penny.
Yeah my problem with the 3 bucks is that 2.50 of it is going straight to reddit's rent seeking. I hope it works out with dBrady and relay, but it will be without me.
I'm not even convinced at $3/mo he won't be in the red.
Users should be getting paid for contributing to reddit, not paying for the privilege. We create the data that reddit gets its revenue from.
I find Jerboa to be similar enough for the moment, but it still has a long way to go to match Boost in it's comfort and feature richness.
Jerboa is fine, but it's not "years and years of polish" quality yet. Which is totally okay, everything has to start somewhere and the app works for most things which is enough to not be too annoying.
Is boost gone? I uninstalled it
Not yet, but Ruben will not be able to handle the costs, so it dies with the other ones on the 30th or so.
I have no idea. I logged out of my account on the 11th and I deleted the app on the same night.
Nope, I used it today to check up on a bit of drama in my favorite band's subreddit
I just joined .world because it sounded the most logical
"Oh it says world, that probably means i can see things all over the world"
I'm not disappointed
World here too on the Jerboa app, I'm subscribed to a BUNCH of communities in other instances and can browse and comment on them all with my world profile. Still kinda confused how it all works but I'm liking it so far
I have yet to figure out how to discover communities on other servers on jerboa. I currently just subscribe to communities on the browser which I then can see in the app.
Home screen, menu at upper left, click "All". I also recommend changing the filter option to "Hot", which is one of the buttons on the top right.
You don't need multiple accounts, one account can access all different instances, including subscribing to remote communities. You just have to click "All" in the communities or post list to see them, instead of "Local".
Except for beehaw.org defederating from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, and I think some defederated from lemmygrad.ml.
Also it should be said that edited comments don't seem to pass across the instances. I think they only sync when the comment has been made.
You need a kbin account to find out if you find kbin better than lemmy.
Did beehaw.org defederate from lemmy.world ? I'm on Lemmy world and see posts from beehaw. Is there a way to check who is federated with who like some kind of map?
If I'm not mistaken, you can see the posts and can even comment, but only people on lemmy.world will see your comment. People from beehaw and other instances won't see it. That's because lemmy.world haven't defederated from beehaw.
More info here: https://kbin.social/m/lemmyworld@lemmy.world/t/24341/How-the-beehaw-defederation-affects-us
You can see which instances are blocked here: https://beehaw.org/instances. It's in the bottom of the page of every instance home page or just add '/instance' after the instance's address.
That's actually a really clever approach
I'm new to this. I have one question. Imagine the following setup:
Following scenario:
What does a person from instance B see now? I assume he won't see my comment as instance B defederated instance A. But he should see the comment from the instance C guy. But how can he see the reply when the original comment is not visible?
Good question!
I think if you do that the little red light would stop blinking and you'd break the internet.
Federation is by definition a union, a mutual agreement. A and B are either federated or they aren't, there is no "A is federated with B but B is not federated with A".
So if A and B are federated and B and C are federated but not A and C, and your scenario happens, the person on B sees your comment but the person on C doesn't see it and can't reply to it.
undefined> A is either federated with B or it isn’t, there is no “A is federated with B but B is not federated with A”
Maybe I used the word "federated" wrong here. I thought it meant "being linked to another instance". To give an example of what I meant: the instance "lemmy.world" is linked to the instance "beehaw.org" while the instance "lemmy.world" is blocked on "beehaw.org".
Yeah, that's federation. In terms of the principle in government as well as its application in the lemmy protocol.
lemmy.world and beehaw.org are defederated. However, this doesn't mean that you can't see beehaw posts as a lemmy.world user, or vice versa. But (let's say you're a lemmy.world user) if you comment on a beehaw post, you're commenting on a replicated version of the post that is hosted on lemmy.world. It is not synced with the original post hosted on beehaw, and you will only be able to see comments from other lemmy.world users and comments from before beehaw defederated.
Thanks that makes sense. I understand that if I'm on a third instance that is federated with both lemmy.world and beehaw.org, and I click on a beehaw.org post then I would not be able to see comments from lemmy.world users. But I would be able to see comments from beehaw.org users and they would see comments from my instance.
Yep the original post on the beehaw instance is like a master record of the post that lives on their server and only their users and users from federated instances can interact with it. Meanwhile the act of a lemmy.world user subscribing to a given beehaw community triggers the lemmy.world instance to archive posts there and create separate self-contained records of them which only lemmy.world users can interact with
Honestly I'm not sure, I'm also quite new to the fediverse. My guess is that being a parent comment, B wouldn't see it, but if C was the parent and A the child comment, B would see only C.
Someone else explained this pretty well in an answer. If that guy is correct neither users from instance B nor C will see the comment from the A instance user. This is because the post is hosted on instance B. And A-B are not federated (because of the block from B's side). This causes the comments from A to not be synched with B and therefore also not with C by proxy.
When were they posted? You should see ones from before.
Reading an image, page refreshes, lose image. I wish I could turn off the auto-refresh or reduce the interval.
Yes, this is so annoying!
They're working on removing this. When you read about the dev "stripping out websockets" that's part of what's changing.
Where did you see this? GitHub?
Yes I forget exactly where but it was on GitHub
If you go to the next page, it stops doing that. Also doesn't do it on the Jerboa app.
oh damn, I hope it uses the browser cache to speed up image reloading
I really hope that some of the reddit clients switch over to lemmy
Or even better, start offering both
Like NewPipe for YouTube. It pulls YouTube videos but also other PeerTube federated instances
Beehaw told me not to join unless I could say specific groups I wanted to join. Nah from me.
I'm loving it honestly. I've gotten myself into a complete fankle with I think five different logins, but it's great. I've made a couple of posts even. Having always been a lurker, I now feel more like a participant rather than a consumer. I don't want a monolith, I like the neighborhood feel, having to figure things out, knit up the threads myself.
From Kbin you can subscribe to whatever sublemmies you're interested in as if they were magazines.
You could also do the same in reverse from Beehaw/Lemmy.world, but KBin currently doesn't federate properly (due to Cloudflare DDoS protection.)
Kbin has been back to federating for a couple days now, hi from Kbin!
For me subscribing isn't the issue... it's seeing the subscription afterwards that I can't seem to do.
Haha sublemmy So cute <3
How do you subscribe to lemmy communities from kbin? I have an account on there can look at the local stuff, but struggling to search and find things lemmy wide.
When you are the first person from your instance to subscribe to another instances community, it takes up to 15 seconds from searching for your instance to download and show it.
I have had good luck pasting the full web address of the instance/c/community into the search.
Yeah a waited a little. Which is unlike me tbh ha. Ah so if its worked for you with full address must just have been a hiccup when I've tried than thanks
Just type the name of the group in the search bar like so:
futurama@lemmy.world
Was trying this but no results. Thanks will keep trying
Federation has been janky. The whole site has been janky, with 500 and 503 errors, and all sorts of things.
It's just going through growing pains.
If you look at the main page, using 'All' (under the hamburger menu), a lot of what you see there will actually be from remote communities. Currently, kbin doesn't do a great job of surfacing the fact that those communities are remote, but if you hover over the community names, many of them will be formatted like /m/topic@someother.website. Those are remote communities.
Right, was wondering how to see what wasn't local also. Thanks
Are you on mobile or desktop? Mobile has a separate search bar for magazines but I haven't seen a distinction on desktop.
Mobile with firefox. Was trying the general searchbar. Didn't see the one in magazines thanks
Click on Magazines and use the search tool there. The global search doesn't appear to work. When you search for a community you can search with the full name (lemmyworld@lemmy.world) or just a term (wall street). If you use a full address, don't include the leading @ or !, it won't return any results. And the search isn't like google. Wall street will return different results than wallstreet, for instance.
I've just managed to find a community instead of the general search results from general. Used the
@lemmyworld@lemmy.worldI'm guessing reading everyones experiences that's its just a bit flaky and probably more likely when i've search is the issue not what . thanks for the tipsSearch for
@lemmyworld@lemmy.worldClick subscribe.
Ah I've probably been getting syntax wrong. Was not using the @ and trying full address like on lemmy search, amongst other formats. Thanks will give it another go
I haven't seen a cloudflare today. It might be off now.
This will die down eventually: at the moment there are many different independent ideas of how to build federated reddit alternatives that have yet to really be tested for how the underlying systems and moderation tools scale. In due time there's going to be a standard application or at least standard exchange format between the different services, that just doesn't happen right now since all methods are really new and now get "suprise load tested".
That's also why you experience outages and Beehaw explicitly asking people not to join: everything went from "fringe techdemo" to "the internet is moving off of reddit" in a matter of less than a week (same thing is true with app support) and everything is at its breaking point: from the underlying technology to new communities appearing in a matter of hours to days (usually with less experienced moderators).
I need a damn explain it to me like I'm five for how all this works. My brain can wrapped it up into neighborhoods or space fleets but the in an out communications are the part I'm missing.
The Fediverse is like a group of interconnected neighborhoods, each representing a different social platform or community. Just as you might have neighbors on your street who interact and share things over time, these communities can communicate and exchange ideas. These neighborhoods may differ in size or focus, but they all exist within a larger universe - just like planets orbiting around a sun. In this case, think of our star system as something like Friendica (the first step towards the modern fediverse) and Diaspora* (itself originally based on Friendica). And just as there might be traffic or communication issues between planetary systems, there could be friction between distinct Fediverse networks. But ultimately, we’re still talking about a united whole here! Finally, imagine spaceships zipping back and forth through space linking up these distinct points of interest - say hello to the protocols bridging connections between decentralized nodes known as “federation” today. It’s all connected!
It's the defederation I'm still confused. That ship (Beehaw) left the fleet and locked down it's ship. What are the communication rules?
From my understanding, posts on beehaw won't populate on defederated instances. And defederated instance posts wont show on beehaw. There's also no requests sent or received from beehaw to update the beehaw posts with defederated data.
Defederated instance users can still go to posts directly on beehaw and they might be able to comment, but no one on beehaw will see it. It's basically "read-only" for defederated instances.
Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
It's up to the individual server who they federate with.
If you want a gated community, or you want to cut ties with an instance that is full of spam or unwanted content, that's still possible.
In the swarm of starships, you aren't obligated to dock with everyone.
Ok. But we can still see their feeds ie beehaw games, so is that the people on that server won't see comments from people outside their instance?
Yeah, it's read-only.
IMO that's still better than other sites, where they don't federate at all.
On Reddit, you can screencap something, and paste a static image. You can't see the comments underneath at all.
I expect instances that don't fully federate will grow slower, so it won't matter, most content will be on instances that are open to fully connecting with others.
I came up with what I think is a pretty good explanation when trying to explain the beehaw fiasco to a friend last night, here it is copy pastad
Think of it like cell service
You have TMobile, I have Google fi
But we can still talk because they both use 4g
But then Google fi blocked TMobile so I can't talk to you anymore
And if I want to be able to talk to people on TMobile and Google fi I would have to transfer my service to att
But also, the service is free to setup and run on your own
So instead of 3 or 4 big cell carriers there are thousands
Also, some added info: Also, with the fediverse, when you transfer service you can take your data with you Just like you can take your text messages and phone number with you Fediverse meaning all the apps that work this way, like mastodon and
Lemmy(at least thosetwoone have data transfers I think)Edit: can't transfer account
You can't move your account to another instance atm if that's what you mean.
So how do we know we're choosing a good instance?
I think we don't for now. I think we just have to accept we might have to change instances once in a while, especially while things settle.
Oh. Thanks for clearing that up for me
It's kind of like I have gmail and you have protonmail but we can still send emails to each other. Conversely emails from @nigerianprince.com will probably get spam filtered and you won't be able to communicate with them.
Well beehaw defederated Lemmy.world so you won’t see that stuff. Well they won’t see yours anyways so you won’t get to interact with them.
I honestly think we should just ditch beehaw at this point, this move will just make things way more complicated and probably keep many people from bothering to learn how it all works. You shouldn't have to visit 3-4 different sites to see the most popular lemmy content
I agree, they don't deserve to be one of the popular instances. They gathered a large userbase and just isolated it. If they wanted to be some special safe space, they should've specified that in the beginning instead of overcomplicating everything the way they did. People keep saying it's their choice, and it is, but in the same way it's Reddit's choice to kill off 3rd party apps.
It's an interesting situation, defederating.
Defederated instances can see the instance that cut them off and can comment, but they (beehaw in this case) won't see their comments. However, if they refederate later when better mod tools exist, all the comments will (be able to) flood in, right?
If so, they'll need to be able to handle it in some way that enables them to maintain compatibility with their instance ethos.
What was that about? Anyone know?
https://beehaw.org/post/567170
Thank you! That's fucking dumb though. Just more of the same I've seen everywhere else on Lemmy, "I know this isn't Reddit or designed to be Reddit and was explicitly designed to NOT be Reddit, but WHY ISN'T IT REDDIT AND WHEN WILL IT BE REDDIT?!"
Seriously, half that post is "While we left a central authority to escape central authority, we will be working until this becomes a central authority to avoid all the things about decentralization that make it decentralized"
Really wish all the people who want a Reddit clone would just........go to one of the Reddit clones.
They describe their philosophy as semi-authoritarianism, just some benevolent dictators lmao.
"We want Reddit but we couldn't go to a Reddit clone because we wanted a Reddit clone WE were in charge of but coding is hard"
I'm liking the UI, experience on mobile could be a bit better though
Couldn't agree more! I tried out mastodon and both versions, web and mobile, are friendlier than Lemmy. But I couldn't get behind the twitter thing. Never liked the twitter format and wasn't really getting through. Lemmy has a better format for me, but a bit clunkier. Sure it will get better soon
Who said you need an account on each one?
Something something multiple instances (if you register with Beehaw, you can't access threads to Lemmy/lemmy.ml)...
just means screw beehaw, everything else seems accessible no point in catering to a single instance
Just create an account on an instamce that federates both lemmy.world and beehaw, like the one I'm currently on.
Also lemmy.fmhy.ml
Doesn't bother me.
@msdos622 love your username
C:> cls C:> dir C:> edit autoexec.bat
Those were the good ol’days
And CONFIG.SYS, of course!
I recall messing with HIMEM.SYS init lines, and dealing with the difference between extended and expanded memory depending on game...
Good times!
Win.ini if you're ancient
That reminded me of something. What was autoexec.bat ???
Just make sure you sort your front page by All instead of Local. Then you can use just one of the three accounts you created and you don't lose anything.
Kbin > All > New is all you need.
Try Memmy or Mlem if you’re on iOS to replace Apollo, still work in progress but getting there
Jerboa on Android too. A work in progress, but nice.
Yeah but isn't it more fun that way??
i was confused for a little while too, created a few accounts and was floundering. the setup will be different for everyone but currently i have a tab open with mastodon and i'm following a few seperate instances there. then i have lemmy.world also open and i have stuff from different lemmy instances and kbin coming in to my feed.
Try Memmy or Mlem if you’re on iOS to replace Apollo, still work in progress but getting there
www.tiktok.com No need to thank me.