It‘s probably important to mention that the entire video team is gone. Some of them were fired, so the rest walked. They‘re planning to go independent soon.
Edit: Their new channel will be SecondWindGroup. They'll do a livestream on November 8th at 11 AM CT, explaining their plans for the future. (Source)
Damn.
Props to everyone who quit in solidarity.
Imagine if Dropout picked them up
I love Dropout, but consolidating everything under one roof is just not a good idea. Not only are they different teams with different sensibilities, but it's an unstable industry and if the company with all the "good" content happened to fail, that'd be a disaster.
Is "fired" the right term? Normally someone being "fired" indicates that they are at fault in some way. It's not normal for people to be "fired" in bulk. It sounds more like they were laid off, like the company had to cut costs.
Nick was supposedly fired for failing to meet goals, goals he was apparently never informed that he should be targeting.
Sounds like they were manufacturing a reason to fire him, then.
Yeah...I'm sort of wondering where the guy works. There are some places where there are significant financial and legal differences for companies doing an at-fault and not-at-fault termination.
I mean, I'm not saying that it's impossible to fire "many" at once for legit reasons, but it'd be unexpected, unless you had a bunch of people collectively engaging in some sort of improper behavior.
And the fact that you apparently had other people resign in response to the people being terminated makes it sounds like there are other people who felt that whatever was going on with the terminations wasn't okay.
Depending on employment law in his state, that may be actionable.
Ah yes, sounds like a job.
Fired and laid off are like buy and purchase - perfect synonyms.
"fired" implies "termination with cause". That is, they believe you screwed up and so you were let go without severance, and in a pinch they're willing to go to court on that.
"Laid off" implies they did bulk downsizing and unless the company finds a way to weasel out of it, there's going to be severance and employment insurance payouts and the like.
In the Southern states this is a distinction without a difference because they just shoot you in the face and toss you into the body pit there regardless of the cause of the termination of your employment, but in the rest of the world this distinction is real.
Being "fired" and being "laid off" are both terms that refer to the termination of an individual's employment. A company may lay off an employee when it doesn't have the resources to retain them, while a company may fire an employee who isn't meeting the company's expectations.
Layoff is just a euphemism for firing people. It is meant to make the company sound better when they fire larger numbers of employees.
Being laid off means that your position is being eliminated through no fault of your own.
Being fired means that you’ve lost your job either because your performance didn’t measure up to expectations or you did something that went against company policy.
When you’re laid off from a job, it happens due to circumstances out of your control. Generally, layoffs occur when a company needs to cut costs, though there can be other reasons for cutting staff. The key part of “laid off” is that you lost your job due to the company’s performance, not your individual performance.
However, when you’re fired, it’s usually due to your performance. Maybe you broke a rule (or several rules). Or, you failed to perform your assigned duties even after being coached and given multiple opportunities to improve. Whatever the reason, you lost your job as a direct result of your behavior.
The key difference between being laid off vs. getting fired is that a layoff is the fault of an employer while a firing occurs because of the employee’s fault. Most workers get laid off because the company is trying to cut costs, reduce the staff, or due to mergers and acquisitions.
For example, let’s say Company A is taken over by new management. If the new owner wants to reorganize the company’s structure, he may resort to laying off workers in order to eliminate redundant tasks.
Getting fired is a little different from being laid off. An employee gets fired because of poor performance, failure to meet the company owner’s expectations, or office theft.
Be pedantic if you want, either way the person is unemployed.
FWIW you're both right lol.
Well, Nick used that term and he‘s probably in a position to know if it‘s the right one.
"To be laid off", or even better "to be let go", are fucking euphemisms for "fired", "kicked out", etc.
That sort of vocabulary is typically used by HR to sound more benevolent, whereas when it's happening to you, you'll use the more aggressive terms.
According to the guys who left, Management forced unrealistic targets on the Editor in Chief, then used him not meeting those targets as an excuse to fire him. Everybody else quit in response.
Fucking hell, he's been with them for close to 20 years, basically half of his working life. He's been there through a lot of shit too, and basically kept The Escapist going through setbacks, cuts, and more.
I would have assumed he'd be largely untouchable there, so to make a decision that led him to resign immediately is absolutely wild.
To be fair, I quite liked Extra Punctuation, and I've always thought he would now be recognisable enough to either go alone, or actually be in front of a screen without animation. This could work out really well for him.
I don't like ZP but EP is quite good imo.
I haven't browsed in years but do I understand correct that Yahtzee does both shows? Is the "actual" punctuation literally him talking slower with pauses and such?
Extra Punctuation was the slower, slightly longer format videos that were more musing about broad industry trends and gaming history. It was great.
Wow, I wish I'd stuck around for those over the years. Thanks.
EP is him doing the same thing, but not as reviews, more generally discussing broad topics regarding games and the industry. I personally prefer it to ZP
Holy shit so no more Zero Punctuation? He was like half of that channel. Wow this came from nowhere.
Theyre practically nothing without him.
No one would have heard of them if it weren't for ZP
By the sounds of it their entire video team left. So not half of the channel gone, but all of it...
Woah. I wonder what happened 😬
Going to go out on a limb and say unrestrained corporate greed
Considering everything else that has gone to shit recently for the same reason, you're probably right.
They apparently fired the EIC for dumb reasons, and everybody else left in solidarity.
In my mind Escapist as a brand itself is basically only ZP, do they even do anything else?
They used to, before Extra Credits, Critical Role, and MovieBob went independent.
And The Jimquisition if you reach back far enough.
Sterling and Yahtzee did a few literal road trips together even.
Zero punctuation and 3-minute reviews are the only reason to be there. Guess i'm out now.
I struggle to think what that channel even did besides ZP and EP. Is Cold Take them as well?
Well, props to Yahtz for not being a scab and quitting when Nick got fired, good solidarity there
It would be amazing if his team could somehow join the Outside Xbox, then I could get all of my British accented videogame snark in one place
RIP TotalBiscuit, he would've fit right in there
I never see OxBox called out. I don't watch much YouTube but I always watch their videos..
So the escapist is closing down soon? Alright then.
I don't even know what they do except post Yahtzee videos
I stopped watching a long time ago but from what I can tell dude legitimately cares about getting games journalism right, hope it goes well for him
He’s definitely one of those that speaks his mind with little filtering. You get his honest opinion, which is nice in a world of bought reviews. Sure his opinion might not match yours, but that’s not the point is it?
He’s also a pretty good author. I recommend all of his books.
I know he said he'll show up in another place (and will keep doing largely the same stuff there, presumably) but this is such an impactful end of an era for me. I've been watching ZP my whole adult life, pretty much. I can't believe his next video won't have the iconic music or animated imps. I don't know why this affects me so much but ZP has been such a constant I suppose, that it feels empty with it gone.
Still, huge props to the team for resigning in solidarity, absolutely love seeing that and I'll definitely follow whatever site they end up on next.
I remember listening to ZP in my headphones while working in a metal fabrication shop, kept me cheered up when there wasn't much reason to be.
This is definitely the end of an era.
For real. I've been listening to these forever.
Props for the reminder. Thank you.
This reminds me of when Jared left Wisecrack, or when literally everyone left Cracked. I felt it coming too, same pattern as many before: the ZP videos started pushing for premium subs with more ads and censoring Yahtzee, and there were more shows with Yatz and a cohost. They always start by pushing the video stars to do stuff with new (cheaper, unknown, less interesting) people because The Company thinks all people are replaceable gears.
Good for the entire video team just quiting, the writing has clearly been on the wall for a while. Maybe he can do work with Stephanie Sterling again? I used to love their team ups!
Well shit that's the Escapist dead. I was kinda wondering.
Most people don't remember that The Escapist was originally a PDF games magazine. It was excellent back then. Great articles, and amazing graphic design.
Soon after it became a website, the only thing I went there for was Yahtzee Croshaw, and honestly I haven't listened to Zero Punctuation for maybe 10 years.
No more Escapist basically? Oh well.
I'm out of the loop. Any reason given for leaving? I feel like I've watched ZP on and off since we got a family computer.
From what's been posted on the discord and a couple of articles it looks like the escapist was bought out, and new management wanted a ton of video content (perhaps to align with the youtube algorithm of prioritizing channels that post multiple videos per day). New management then fired Nick, and the video staff in solidarity (and seeing the writing on the wall of the new direction of promoting low effort, frequent content over less frequent quality content) walked out with him.
I find this kind of funny-sad: The Escapist has often gone through these waves of being The Yahtzee Croshaw Channel to "We're spinning up two other channels just so we can spread out all the stuff we're making." Remember that phase when every ZP started with a bumper about which shows are on which channel? Yeah they stopped uploading things to Escapist Movies and Escapist Live 2 years ago.
I was actually digging some of the newer stuff they were making, particularly The Stuff Of Legends and Cold Take, and doing Extra Punctuation in video form didn't hurt either. Just as I was finally like "Hey Escapist is publishing some shows in addition to ZP that I'm kinda into" it all falls apart.
They announced they're staying together as Second Wind Group, so hopefully the momentum just goes there instead
Title noted.
cold take was the only other thing I gave a shit about on escapist. looking forward to what they all come up with next.
Sounds like they definitely fucked up. So they just bought the channel for no reason. There will be no content now.
Well that's an unsub. Literally the only thing from them I ever watched
In any case, I look forward to whatever he's got cooked up. Hope he keeps doing stuff like extra punctuation as well
Youtube started recommending me "Cold Take", which is actually not bad. Vastly different vibe, though.
It sounds like the entire video team left in solidarity, so I'm pretty certain Frost is gone. The parent company probably retains the "Cold Take" branding, but it'll be somebody else if they keep it running. And it'll be awful.
I've enjoyed both shows hosted by that guy, Cold Take and Stuff Of Legends. Sebastian Ruiz, apparently. I'm hoping he's able to continue.
Congratulations to some wealthy idiots on their recent purchase of an empty box.
I wonder if they're gonna try getting someone else to take up ZP
Good fucking luck to the next guy. Lol
Shits going down like the Hindenburg.
That would be impossible, since Yahtzee basically is Zero Punctuation, anyone else wouldn't feel right.
There was an old ZP video where another person tried to do Yahtzee's style (before being interrupted by Yahtzee himself) and it didn't really work. But that was kinda the point of the video.
I remember this, the video didn't match the title, I think the game was x blades.
I looked it up, it started as an X-blades review then it turned into a review for Halo Wars.
Wow. That’s a heavy blow.
Lords of the fallen, fell this mighty Lord. 🥀
Been watching him for what feels like forever.
Definitely wish him and the team the best of luck moving forward and will keep an eye out for the next venture.
Someone please, please back up the old Zero Punctuation videos now, before something happens.
Archive dot org has all of them, as far as I can tell.
It‘s probably important to mention that the entire video team is gone. Some of them were fired, so the rest walked. They‘re planning to go independent soon.
Edit: Their new channel will be SecondWindGroup. They'll do a livestream on November 8th at 11 AM CT, explaining their plans for the future. (Source)
Damn.
Props to everyone who quit in solidarity.
Imagine if Dropout picked them up
I love Dropout, but consolidating everything under one roof is just not a good idea. Not only are they different teams with different sensibilities, but it's an unstable industry and if the company with all the "good" content happened to fail, that'd be a disaster.
Is "fired" the right term? Normally someone being "fired" indicates that they are at fault in some way. It's not normal for people to be "fired" in bulk. It sounds more like they were laid off, like the company had to cut costs.
Nick was supposedly fired for failing to meet goals, goals he was apparently never informed that he should be targeting.
Sounds like they were manufacturing a reason to fire him, then.
Yeah...I'm sort of wondering where the guy works. There are some places where there are significant financial and legal differences for companies doing an at-fault and not-at-fault termination.
I mean, I'm not saying that it's impossible to fire "many" at once for legit reasons, but it'd be unexpected, unless you had a bunch of people collectively engaging in some sort of improper behavior.
And the fact that you apparently had other people resign in response to the people being terminated makes it sounds like there are other people who felt that whatever was going on with the terminations wasn't okay.
Depending on employment law in his state, that may be actionable.
Ah yes, sounds like a job.
Fired and laid off are like buy and purchase - perfect synonyms.
"fired" implies "termination with cause". That is, they believe you screwed up and so you were let go without severance, and in a pinch they're willing to go to court on that.
"Laid off" implies they did bulk downsizing and unless the company finds a way to weasel out of it, there's going to be severance and employment insurance payouts and the like.
In the Southern states this is a distinction without a difference because they just shoot you in the face and toss you into the body pit there regardless of the cause of the termination of your employment, but in the rest of the world this distinction is real.
No.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/laid-off-vs-fired
Layoff is just a euphemism for firing people. It is meant to make the company sound better when they fire larger numbers of employees.
https://www.monster.com/career-advice/leaving-a-job/losing-a-job/laid-off-vs-fired
https://www.flexjobs.com/blog/post/laid-off-vs-fired/
https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/career/being-laid-off-vs-getting-fired/
Be pedantic if you want, either way the person is unemployed.
FWIW you're both right lol.
Well, Nick used that term and he‘s probably in a position to know if it‘s the right one.
"To be laid off", or even better "to be let go", are fucking euphemisms for "fired", "kicked out", etc.
That sort of vocabulary is typically used by HR to sound more benevolent, whereas when it's happening to you, you'll use the more aggressive terms.
According to the guys who left, Management forced unrealistic targets on the Editor in Chief, then used him not meeting those targets as an excuse to fire him. Everybody else quit in response.
Fucking hell, he's been with them for close to 20 years, basically half of his working life. He's been there through a lot of shit too, and basically kept The Escapist going through setbacks, cuts, and more.
I would have assumed he'd be largely untouchable there, so to make a decision that led him to resign immediately is absolutely wild.
To be fair, I quite liked Extra Punctuation, and I've always thought he would now be recognisable enough to either go alone, or actually be in front of a screen without animation. This could work out really well for him.
I don't like ZP but EP is quite good imo.
I haven't browsed in years but do I understand correct that Yahtzee does both shows? Is the "actual" punctuation literally him talking slower with pauses and such?
Extra Punctuation was the slower, slightly longer format videos that were more musing about broad industry trends and gaming history. It was great.
Wow, I wish I'd stuck around for those over the years. Thanks.
EP is him doing the same thing, but not as reviews, more generally discussing broad topics regarding games and the industry. I personally prefer it to ZP
Holy shit so no more Zero Punctuation? He was like half of that channel. Wow this came from nowhere.
Theyre practically nothing without him.
No one would have heard of them if it weren't for ZP
By the sounds of it their entire video team left. So not half of the channel gone, but all of it...
Woah. I wonder what happened 😬
Going to go out on a limb and say unrestrained corporate greed
Considering everything else that has gone to shit recently for the same reason, you're probably right.
They apparently fired the EIC for dumb reasons, and everybody else left in solidarity.
In my mind Escapist as a brand itself is basically only ZP, do they even do anything else?
They used to, before Extra Credits, Critical Role, and MovieBob went independent.
And The Jimquisition if you reach back far enough.
Sterling and Yahtzee did a few literal road trips together even.
Zero punctuation and 3-minute reviews are the only reason to be there. Guess i'm out now.
I struggle to think what that channel even did besides ZP and EP. Is Cold Take them as well?
Well, props to Yahtz for not being a scab and quitting when Nick got fired, good solidarity there
It would be amazing if his team could somehow join the Outside Xbox, then I could get all of my British accented videogame snark in one place
RIP TotalBiscuit, he would've fit right in there
I never see OxBox called out. I don't watch much YouTube but I always watch their videos..
So the escapist is closing down soon? Alright then.
I don't even know what they do except post Yahtzee videos
I stopped watching a long time ago but from what I can tell dude legitimately cares about getting games journalism right, hope it goes well for him
He’s definitely one of those that speaks his mind with little filtering. You get his honest opinion, which is nice in a world of bought reviews. Sure his opinion might not match yours, but that’s not the point is it?
He’s also a pretty good author. I recommend all of his books.
I know he said he'll show up in another place (and will keep doing largely the same stuff there, presumably) but this is such an impactful end of an era for me. I've been watching ZP my whole adult life, pretty much. I can't believe his next video won't have the iconic music or animated imps. I don't know why this affects me so much but ZP has been such a constant I suppose, that it feels empty with it gone.
Still, huge props to the team for resigning in solidarity, absolutely love seeing that and I'll definitely follow whatever site they end up on next.
I remember listening to ZP in my headphones while working in a metal fabrication shop, kept me cheered up when there wasn't much reason to be.
This is definitely the end of an era.
For real. I've been listening to these forever.
Props for the reminder. Thank you.
This reminds me of when Jared left Wisecrack, or when literally everyone left Cracked. I felt it coming too, same pattern as many before: the ZP videos started pushing for premium subs with more ads and censoring Yahtzee, and there were more shows with Yatz and a cohost. They always start by pushing the video stars to do stuff with new (cheaper, unknown, less interesting) people because The Company thinks all people are replaceable gears.
Good for the entire video team just quiting, the writing has clearly been on the wall for a while. Maybe he can do work with Stephanie Sterling again? I used to love their team ups!
Well shit that's the Escapist dead. I was kinda wondering.
Most people don't remember that The Escapist was originally a PDF games magazine. It was excellent back then. Great articles, and amazing graphic design.
Soon after it became a website, the only thing I went there for was Yahtzee Croshaw, and honestly I haven't listened to Zero Punctuation for maybe 10 years.
No more Escapist basically? Oh well.
I'm out of the loop. Any reason given for leaving? I feel like I've watched ZP on and off since we got a family computer.
From what's been posted on the discord and a couple of articles it looks like the escapist was bought out, and new management wanted a ton of video content (perhaps to align with the youtube algorithm of prioritizing channels that post multiple videos per day). New management then fired Nick, and the video staff in solidarity (and seeing the writing on the wall of the new direction of promoting low effort, frequent content over less frequent quality content) walked out with him.
I find this kind of funny-sad: The Escapist has often gone through these waves of being The Yahtzee Croshaw Channel to "We're spinning up two other channels just so we can spread out all the stuff we're making." Remember that phase when every ZP started with a bumper about which shows are on which channel? Yeah they stopped uploading things to Escapist Movies and Escapist Live 2 years ago.
I was actually digging some of the newer stuff they were making, particularly The Stuff Of Legends and Cold Take, and doing Extra Punctuation in video form didn't hurt either. Just as I was finally like "Hey Escapist is publishing some shows in addition to ZP that I'm kinda into" it all falls apart.
They announced they're staying together as Second Wind Group, so hopefully the momentum just goes there instead
Title noted.
cold take was the only other thing I gave a shit about on escapist. looking forward to what they all come up with next.
Sounds like they definitely fucked up. So they just bought the channel for no reason. There will be no content now.
Well that's an unsub. Literally the only thing from them I ever watched
In any case, I look forward to whatever he's got cooked up. Hope he keeps doing stuff like extra punctuation as well
Youtube started recommending me "Cold Take", which is actually not bad. Vastly different vibe, though.
I like Cold Take, too, so now I wonder if that is also part of this mass resignation event.
It sounds like the entire video team left in solidarity, so I'm pretty certain Frost is gone. The parent company probably retains the "Cold Take" branding, but it'll be somebody else if they keep it running. And it'll be awful.
I've enjoyed both shows hosted by that guy, Cold Take and Stuff Of Legends. Sebastian Ruiz, apparently. I'm hoping he's able to continue.
Congratulations to some wealthy idiots on their recent purchase of an empty box.
I wonder if they're gonna try getting someone else to take up ZP
Good fucking luck to the next guy. Lol
Shits going down like the Hindenburg.
That would be impossible, since Yahtzee basically is Zero Punctuation, anyone else wouldn't feel right.
There was an old ZP video where another person tried to do Yahtzee's style (before being interrupted by Yahtzee himself) and it didn't really work. But that was kinda the point of the video.
I remember this, the video didn't match the title, I think the game was x blades.
I looked it up, it started as an X-blades review then it turned into a review for Halo Wars.
Wow. That’s a heavy blow.
Lords of the fallen, fell this mighty Lord. 🥀
Been watching him for what feels like forever.
Definitely wish him and the team the best of luck moving forward and will keep an eye out for the next venture.
Someone please, please back up the old Zero Punctuation videos now, before something happens.
Archive dot org has all of them, as far as I can tell.
They started the Second Wind Group channel. So videos should be posted there shortly https://www.youtube.com/@SecondWindGroup
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/@SecondWindGroup
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Right as LoadingReadyRun is getting ready for Desert Bus, so no Checkpoint for two weeks. I wonder if they will cover it when they get back 🤔