Mitt Romney: Some Trump Supporters Are 'Out Of Touch With Reality'
huffpost.com
The senator said he has "a hard time understanding" why Trump's legal issues don't "seem to be moving the needle" with more voters.
Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah) called out the majority of Iowa Republican caucus voters who baselessly believe that President Joe Biden did not win the 2020 election legitimately.
“I think a lot of people in this country are out of touch with reality and will accept anything Donald Trump tells them,” Romney, who announced in September that he is not seeking reelection, told CNN journalist Manu Raju on Wednesday.
About 65% of Iowa caucusgoers said they believe former President Donald Trump’s lie that the 2020 election was “stolen” from him, according to entrance poll data.
I cannot understand how conservatives in the us that do not buy in to the maga talking points can still vote for their party.
They have seen the checks and balances in action so all they need to do is stay home one election cycle to give a clear signal.. this is not the direction they want. This will force the Republican party to face the maga extremists and go back to their normal ways. Which still is not good but at least not beholden to a narcissist wannabe dictator.
The problem is that this didn't start with Trump. He is just the perfect type of candidate to harness the lightning.
That mentality started with Lee Atwater and has slowly mutated into what it is today. All of the signs were there. It's why John McCain had such a hard time and why he had to have a "firebrand" as a running mate
The group at the center of a lot of the mutation is Fox News. Without their dedication to creating an alternate universe of reality, I don't think things would be as bad.
There's a pretty good documentary on Lee Atwater called Boogey Man and it's on Prime right now.
Always thought it was super weird that John McCain was too left for some people
The modern Conservative movement found President Eisenhower too far to the Left.
Hell, some John Birch Society loons thought Nixon was too far to the left.
Nixon.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mad-magazine-super-patriot/
Original cartoon was in 1968, and nothing has changed since. Well, maybe the part about them hating the 'Very Rich.'
I hate absolutely everyone just on general principle. I guess that makes me a Super Duper Mega Ultra Patriot!
Incidentally, McCain was the last Republican presidential candidate I seriously evaluated as a possible choice, though I did end up voting for Obama.
At the time, I thought that if we had McCain as President, we wouldn't have to listen to the GOP go after Clinton for four years. I soon realized that any Dem, no matter who, was demonic in their eyes.
That's true, but Obama really broke their brains... I wonder what it was about him that made them so upset. Hmmm.
Look up 'Travelgate' and Vince Foster. They were creating Clinton scandals from Day Zero. I know a lot of people who think that if they'd held their fire until they had Monica they could have actually gotten Bill Clinton impeached and thrown out. But by the time they got an actual offense everyone could see that it was a witch hunt.
Rupert Murdoch makes me want to believe in hell.
It predates Atwater. We should acknowledge the fact that Republicans planned a coup around the same time as Hitler's beer hall putch. FDR then cut a deal with the fascist Republicans to temporarily pass his new deal policies. In exchange for not prosecuting and locking them up.
We should also acknowledge the fact that the man most likely to have been tapped as their fascist dictator had. His son and grandson go on to be president of the United States. Some of the most damaging ones
That isn't to downplay Atwater and his contemporaries. They managed the merger of the two most evil groups in modern American history. After the Democratic party purged itself. The fact is the Republican party has been anti-democratic and authoritarian since nearly the start of the 20th century.
Do you have a link on that, that someone can read up on?
Read more history:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
That was a wild read, especially seen through the lens of current events.
One part of it that caught my eye was this...
Really gave off some Starship Troopers novel vibes.
Unfortunately, I'm not aware of anything good that lays this out specifically.. Or anything truly authoritative. But do a deep dive on the business plot AKA the Wall Street putch.
The fact there isn't a lot of documentation about it is almost as damning as if there was. So yes this gets a bit into conspiracy theory territory. But it is conspiracy theory well-backed by history and rationality.
Official accounts tend to only name the person that contacted to enlist Butler. Gerald MacGuire. Who promised Butler half a million troops to march on Washington as well as large financial backing. All to stop Roosevelt and his new deal.
There were hearings held on it. Investigations even. The New York Times a long with much US media at the time initially called it a "gigantic hoax". That characterization later turned to "alarmingly true" and that "definite proof had been found that the much publicized Fascist march on Washington"
So then, if this was alarmingly true. And definitive proof had been found. Who were these 500,00 troops? Who were these financial backers? Why don't we know? Why was no one really punished? Why is this so sketchy, and why have people generally been okay with this?
What we do know, is that the Republican party was traditionally the party of industrialists and corporations. And that many of the owners of industry and corporations sympathized with the Nazis. IBM for instance, helping the Nazis create a computerized system to track Jews on way to slaughter. And Dow chemical helped them to create the gas to kill them with. We know for a fact that Republicans have gnashed their teeth, moaning about The new deal for the last century. As well as the fact that despite not knowing the names. A number of Republican senators were implicated.
The most rational explanation I've seen for it. Happens to coincide with FDR's New deal. Basically claiming that in return for not expelling, prosecuting, or punishing those involved. They had to help pass his new deal package.
There's a lot going on behind the scenes in US government that rarely gets documented and publicized. That FDR used leverage to get the new deal passed seems supremely believable. And what better leverage than "We know you're a fascist and a traitor. And we could prove it". The package secured his legacy. In many ways it's a very rational, and in the short term, beneficial exchange. The long term effects of letting fascism fester unpunished however. I think all of us are well versed in these days.
Are you talking about https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot ? I didn't know much about this until I looked it up.
Yes. It is some of the most sus stuff in US history. That gets glossed over so quick and easy. Typically with history teachers, etc. Never even helping to make people make basic connections surrounding it. It's just a plot by some businesses that happened. The end. Sketchy as hell That we know it happened. And supposedly there was damning evidence. But we don't know what any of that evidence was or who all it implicated. Talk about your actual deep state.
The thing is, Atwater understood how to appeal to the moderates. As long as you didn't come right out and say it, you could deny it.
Once you've said it out loud, you can't go back.
deleted by creator
I think I was actually looking for the Frontline one (what I had seen). Thanks!
There is a deep schism in America. One that conservatives have slowly been losing. Progress is made and the conservative ideal of life (which has served them very well and they are quite comfortable with) has been chipped away at for decades. Obama becoming President brought it all to a head. The country was taken over by folks who don't look like them and don't think like them. They are just as afraid of losing their country to the left as the left is afraid of Trump's fascism.
Trump, regardless of any flaws he could have, has basically made the cold war that they'd been slowly losing hot, and they think that's their ticket to turning things around and winning. And he'll turn on a dime to attack anyone, so they just need to be on his side and wait for the left to be effectively destroyed and that will preserve their way of life. And so they are fanatically loyal to him and to a large degree will bear any pain as long as it hurts the right people more.
So they won't turn away from Trump no matter what and he's made it easy for them by providing the lie that he's under attack by a vast conspiracy so they can believe all his legal woes are purely political if that makes them feel more comfortable. They believe in him because he is their champion. He is their Goliath. Their Achilles. Their god-appointed savior.
They don't want the status quo, because progress was slowly happening under it. They want a hot war and Trump will deliver. And they're too willfully blind to see the cost that must eventually be paid.
People like that do not think long term. Otherwise, they woukd realize change is inevitable and unstoppable. This change might not be what they want or what any of us want (robot apocoloypse comes to mind) but its coming.
Note: investing does not count as long term thinking here. I'm talking about a social and political future.
There is a saying: Democrats fall in love and Republicans fall in line.
I'm convinced that the majority of the Republican party are held hostage by a disproportionately influential alt-right voting bloc. The alt-right is pretty much about 5-10% of the party but because they are loud and violent, they get 90% of the coverage.
Republican candidates, however, know that Republicans will vote Republican no matter what so they cater their message to the alt right, knowing that come the general election, even the most liberal Republican will still vote Republican.
The sad, sad thing is....Democrats are now there too. Liberals and democracy loving Americans have to vote Democrat. But the Democrats have a different problem. Because their voting bloc is more diverse, it's harder to have a coalition. Many Democrats have to cater to moderates, and not progressives, in order to get the majority to vote. Not only that, but many moderates value "bipartisanship" whereas Republicans don't and the Republicans know that. It's why we get shit deals on bills and Republicans consistently going back on their word.
I think that's 5 to 10% number is a bit low.
I think there's a larger swath of the population that buy into certain belief systems so much that they make themselves delusional to anything else, unable to see the truth of things.
Or even if there's a moment when they see the truth, they are unable to deal with the fact that they've been conned/ignorant, and retreat back to what is safe and feels good for them.
It's ironic actually that that section of the population came up with the term "the wolf in sheep's clothing" but can't see the wolf when it's standing in front of them, wearing a sheep outfit.
One of the truths that America fails to accept over generations now is that a large swath of the population who really wouldn't mind being controlled, and see things the way they want to see them, versus how they really are.
We really shouldn't underestimate the numbers of the population of these kind of people, no matter what the ramifications of that means and how hard it is to deal with.
Perhaps they too have constant messaging from their party to hold their noses and vote for him this time or joe "will destroy their way of life"
I'm sure they have that. But this is why I added the qualifications. The huge chasm between the 2 parties just saddens me. Especially cause US politics influences so much of the rest of the world.
And regardless of what you think of US politics, I think seeing the twice I peached, 10+ times criminally charged, sexual abusing, insurrectionist, grifter in chief keep his credibility, does a lot of damage on a global scale.
Because they hate women, minorities, and poor people more than they disagree with Trump. That's the real problem with this country...
No, Mittens, some Republicans are out of touch with reality. Trump's supporters definitely are.
I would say all republicans.
I agree. Anyone that was a republican before Jan 6 and hasn't changed their party affiliation is firmly in the "I'm ok with an orange faced dictator" boat.
The filter applies starting with Watergate, when Ford pardoned Nixon to be precise. Prior to that was the last time you can say the Republican party had any good in it.
I never had any doubt that, even if I didn't vote for them or agree with their policies, at least Regan, and the bushes would willingly step down from the presidency if they lost. That's the key difference.
I'd argue a lot of them are perfectly aware of how shitty they are, they just enjoy being shitty people.
They are like the high school seniors who have figured out that they'll never get into college or get a good job. They are going to screw things up for everyone else, because what else is there?
I disagree. For example, a billionaire knows that Democrats want to raise his taxes and decrease his wealth. So it's pragmatic for him to vote for Republicans, despite having so much money it ceases being a unit of exchange and becomes just a scoreboard.
This would make sense if Democrats actually raised taxes significantly on the wealthy.
Democrats threaten to do it, Republicans absolutely won't. Rationally GOP is the safer bet.
edit: "Rationally" from a billionaire's point of view, not from a social or moral one.
You are out of your mind.
You missed my point there, bud.
If you're a billionaire who only cares about your money, and your choices are between one party that wants to cut your taxes and remove regulations on your businesses thereby decreasing your operating costs, and another party that talks about increasing your taxes and also increasing tax code enforcement, which do you support? It'd be irrational to not support the GOP and that was my original point- that not all Republicans are deluded Christofascists like Trump supporters. Immoral and evil, yes- but not insane.
To be absolutely clear, I am not in any way endorsing voting for any GOP candidate. They are an existential threat to America and their entire party should be disbanded and their leadership investigated for conspiracy and sedition at the very least.
I don't know man sometimes not paying your guillotine insurance isn't a safe bet.
I'm definitely in favor of making the rich pay all of their taxes.
Whereas an empathetic billionaire (they don't actually exist) would recognize that they have enough money to pay for the entire lives of all of their descendants and actually interact with the Worker Class.
You don't get to be that wealthy without taking advantage of other people. Nobody ever made a billion dollars by hard work alone.
Never forget that Mitt was happy to have Trump's support in 2012. Mitt even made a few mild 'birther' jokes from time to time.
Even now he can't come out and call Trump a traitor and a convicted sex criminal because that might hurt the Party.
Some?
I think “Some” is fair, there’s a good number who are all in on authoritarian fascism.
Some
Yeah really that's every Teump supporter.
I will forever accept this as the correct spelling.
You know my favorite part about this? Even a guy who believes that a man who told fortunes by looking at a rock inside his hat one day dug up some golden plates and an angel helped him translate them and then took the plates away and that's why he has to wear magic underwear realizes that Trump supporters are out of touch with reality. (Even if he does qualify it with 'some.')
The Mormon, the Scientologist, and the 7th Day Adventist all making fun of those silly QAnoners. 🤣
~ attributed by journalist Ron Suskind to an unnamed official in the George W. Bush administration who used it to denigrate a critic of the administration's policies as someone who based their judgments on facts
These idiots and assholes have always been with us. Trump's really piled on the clown make-up, but you can find like-minded delusional assholes going straight back to the administrations of our nation's founders.
My fortune telling hat has an angry rabbit inside who screams obscenities that only I can hear, it's my sorrowful duty to listen and report whatb he says.
I mean, Fox News and right wing radio shows have been pushing disinformation for years. It was there before Trump. I mean, how many people believe Obama is a Muslim? Election denial is just an off shoot of that with many of their propaganda pieces.
Nowadays though there's just a cinematic universe of shows (PragerU, Shapiro, etc) for right wingers to cosplay their "reality" in.
Although, I'll step in and say I don't know if Ben actually is an election denier. I don't think he would be.
Some?
Yeah, I imagine the rest know exactly what they're doing.
The title of the article doesn't align with what he said (which is "a lot").
Some?
Most are out of touch with reality, the rest aren't dumb, but are completely corrupt and seek to take advantage of a trump government to give themselves more power. They know how Trump and the republicans is, what he's trying to do, but the truth is it will benefit them and that's all that matters.
You can absolutely be both. Some of these assholes start out cynically playing the part and, as the grift grinds on, begin to get high on more and more of their own supply.
You can trace this back to Milton Friedman, Murray Rothbard, and Ludwig Von Mises. Then on to William F. Buckley and Rush Limbaugh. And now we've got the Ben Shapiros and Tucker Carlsons and Jordan B Petersons. They're creating a new generation of Andrew Tates, Joe Rogans, and Elon Musks. People shitting out garbage and holding Big Gulp Challenges to see who can swallow the most of it down. And those people become the prophets of the next generation.
There's always some amount of money in being the most high profile dupes. That keeps the wheel turning for the rest of us.
That's how Romney spells All
Being out of touch with reality is what it takes to vote Republican nowadays.
You can thank corporate-owned "local news" for that.
Wait…. SOME?
BODY
ONCE
TOLD ME
THE WORLD
IS GONNA
ROLL ME
I laugh at articles I see which site "independent voters". If you're still claiming to be undecided on Trump in 2023, you're brain dead or full of shit or both. You know exactly who he is by now
I think they just crave attention from the media.
Because cults.
understatement of the year...
and it's only 18th jan
Romney doesn't understand because he's stuck about 30-40 years ago.
What is your understanding of why Trump's legal issues don't seem to be moving the needle with more voters?
Simple.
Fascists don't care about the law.
The GOP has taken a sharp turn into fascism.
Romney is living in a nostalgic world where the GOP was just the party for rich old white guys who wanted to cheat the poor, and not the party of "Literal sterilization camps at the border".
"If he doesn't go to jail and it's not stopping him from being president it must all be political" is what my maga uncle says
Have an uncle that thinks Antifa orchestrated the violence on Jan 6th. Not sure how he deals with Trump and Haley saying they are "hostages." That clearly admits they were MAGA members...
According to people who worked in the white house, this was a preplanned lie thought up by Convicted Sex Offender Treason Trump before the Jan 6 coup.
Wait, uneducated religious fruitcakes are out of touch?
Yeah, and he said MAGA chuds are too
Broken clock, blah blah blah
[note: I do know Mittens is highly educated]
Some?
These people are out of touch with reality, now, let me tell you about my imaginary invisible friend who will torture us forever if we don't do what the men in robes and hats say he wants and tithe 10% of our income to them.
Trump's racist politics is a reflexive reaction to 8 years of Obama Trauma by white people who swore they'd never let a black man get one over on them
Meanwhile policy wise Obama was pretty much 8 more years of Bush
Remember the good old days when Mitt Romney was the worst Republican
he was never the worst but he is a Republican
Out of touch senator makes out of touch take about how out of touch out of touch voters are.
Fucking all of them are.
I have a friend of mine, he's an old man who isn't long for this world... he idolizes Trump and writes off anything negative about him as propaganda, and claims Trump is this genius who outsmarts everyone, that no one "really believes" in the things he's being prosecuted for, and he'll be seen as a Martyr when Joe Biden has him assassinated because the "Blatant mistreatment" he's recieved has made him too sympathetic....
And EVERYTHING he says about Trump has him painted as this Patriotic American Super Hero, this.. Great Man who's five steps ahead...
And that ANYTHING that shows him a negative light is ALL of the Media wokring together on a secret plan to make this Steel Balled Ubermench look foolish...
It's real sad, he's an old man who's usually smarter than this, but... the fantasy that the world will be "saved" while he's still alive, keeps his mouth against Trump's ass
Mitt is right to say that. Good to see from Mitt.
I'm not a Trump supporter, but Mr. Romney, please name me a politician that is serving in our Government who IS in touch with reality. They all have their heads so far up lobbyists asses they wouldn't know it if reality smacked them on the lips.
Bernie Sanders
You say that like you aren't aware that Convicted Sex Offender Treason Trump isn't a pathological liar who lies at 100x the rate of the others.
Trump's ghostwriter for 'Art of the Deal' who spent 18 months side by side with Trump and listened in on all his phone calls: Lying is second nature to him. He lied strategically. He had a complete lack of conscience about it
Donald Trump phone recording: Trump says his name is "John Miller" in order to brag about himself
According to POLITICO’s five-day analysis, Trump averaged one falsehood every 3 minutes and 15 seconds over nearly five hours of remarks.
Fact Checker: Trump makes Four-Pinocchio statements over and over again, even though fact checkers have demonstrated them to be false.
A fact checker looked into 158 things Donald Trump said. 78 percent were false
The Huffington Post once chronicled 71 inaccuracies in an hourlong Trump town hall session, more than one a minute...Trump is a world champion who is pathological in his dishonesty
Presidential historians say Donald Trump is the most falsehood-prone candidate in the two centuries of the republic.
Trump: If I decide to run for office, I’ll produce my tax returns, absolutely.
Bernie Sanders: The truth is, if you look at Donald Trump’s record, what you find is this guy is a pathological liar, I’m not talking about a little lie there, or stretching the truth there. I am talking about him coming up with things in his head that do not exist. There are psychological definitions there.
Ted Cruz: [Trump] is a pathological liar...He lies practically every word that comes out of his mouth
Mitt Romney: Dishonesty is Trump's hallmark...Here's what I know. Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud. His promises are as worthless as a degree from Trump University. He's playing the American public for suckers
Rubio: Trump is a fraud and con artist
Ted Cruz's wife: You probably know by now that most of the things that Donald Trump says have no basis in reality
Bernie Sanders: As is the case virtually every day, Donald Trump is showing the American people that he is a pathological liar.
Politico Analysis: Trump Averages 'One Misstatement Every 5 Minutes'
How distorted are you that you took my statement as "pro trump". Is he not a politician? Yes, so therefore he is out of touch as well. The people that rule you have no idea what it's like to be an average american. they are ALL OUT OF TOUCH and the fact that you defend any of them shows you are as well.
Nothing in their post indicates that they think you are a trump supporter. They made it pretty clear that they are pointing out that trump is 100x worse.
and why would they do that in response to my comment that nothing to do with an specific person or even side?
They made it pretty clear:
And I agree with them: your post was ridiculous "muh both sides" nonsense. We can shit on politicians for being out of touch, and we can make a case probably for any of them. But almost universally they pale in comparison to Trump. It's like if one person committed fraud by lying to someone and robbed them of millions of dollars, and another told a white lie to their kid to get them go to bed on time. You're basically saying "well, these people are the same because they both are liars!" It's just simply not accurate, and it's what they were pointing out.
There is no "both sides" when it comes to Trump. The guy has proven himself to be ridiculously dangerous, not just your run-of-the-mill out of touch politician.
you people made my post about trump. im not defending him. i'm saying they are all bad. not sides. not one or the other. all. i never even mentioned him.
The post is about trump. You jumped in to defend trump by implicitly claiming all politicians are out of touch. The other poster accurately pointed out that they are not even remotely equivalent. And yes you did mention him, explicitly.
To get all bent out of shape that people are talking about trump makes no sense.
60 cases filed for the benefit of the Republican party attempting to overturn the election that got Trump out of power and not one piece of evidence was admitted let alone submitted for the courts to consider. It's time to start picking your battles, Mr. Not a Trump Supporter
So tell me about a politician that is in touch with reality. One that really understands the plight of the average american. go ahead, i'll wait.
Cori Bush was homeless within 2 years of being elected iirc.
2 years prior to being elected.
And that simply doesn't mean she's in touch. She may have started that way, but once lobbyists and their ilk dig their claws in, they quickly forget the reasons they were there in the first place. Now, I don't know her specifically and the first article I read made her out to be a seemingly level headed person, but look at her voting record. That will tell the true story. But this is part of the problem we have with Congress. "Yeah Congress is doing terrible right now but 'my guy' is doing fine, it's everyone else who's trash". yeah, when everyone thinks this way, nothing ever changes. Congress should have term limits. Congress is like a diaper. Should be changed often and for the same reason.
How did I know you would say that lmao
where's the lie? it was prior to her being elected, and i admitted to not knowing much about her personally, did a modicum of research, then commented about how once in office, the power corrupts.
You moved the goalposts from being in touch to being in connection with lobbyists
you people are impossible.
I'm really glad you think so.