China says Israel has gone too far
politico.com
China’s foreign minister said Saturday that Israel has gone too far in responding to last week’s invasion by Hamas, China’s official news agency reported.
Speaking to Saudi Arabian Foreign Minister Faisal bin Farhan Al Saud, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi said Israel’s actions have extended beyond self-defense.
According to Xinhua, China has an interest in helping resolve the conflict and the underlying issues involving the Palestinian population.
He's not wrong. But it's worth remembering that when China faced a far smaller provocation from their own restive Muslims, in Xinjiang, they responded by locking up a large fraction of the population in vast reeducation camps...
Not saying that's right, but at least they didn't bomb the camps...
I think if they felt the need to they would have. China and Israel's government both place about the same value on the lives of people who get in their way, China is just a lot more self conscious about its international image.
This is a stupid take. 70 years has passed since China's last military attack on a nation. 70 years. But sure, let's ignore history and view things from our fee fees.
China may be oppressive against those in its nation. But it's proven from decades of peace to not do anything like what you are saying.
They attack sovereign waters all the time. They make threats to Taiwan nearly daily.
So who got killed?
Where in my comment did I talk about their willingness to attack other countries? I said they didn't value the lives of people who get in their way, like the pro-democracy student protesters they massacred in 1989, or the Uyghurs they've been enslaving/brutalizing/killing in concentration camps more recently.
There's no evidence of killing. The UN even visited and stated they did not believe China was engaged in mass killing. So no, nothing like what Israel is doing.
Plenty of circumstantial evidence of killing (e.g. missing people), and when there's been documented imprisonment forced labor and forced sterilizations, the fact that they don't say "... and then we kill them" in any written documents the UN can get their hands on and just rely on their guards to know what to do really doesn't matter
Both countries want to exterminate people who challenge their aims, China's just got a slightly more controlled environment to do it in
Right right, killing thousands is comparable to circumstantial evidence. Do you hear yourself?
Yes, I do think these things are comparable, that is what I have been saying for several comments now
Ok well there's circumstantial evidence someone in your neighborhood killed someone. Why aren't you stopping the genocide in your backyard.
Because I'm not a government, I pay taxes for other people to deal with things like that. Also, if it was someone who I had a motive to have killed and I was the last one seen talking to them my neighbors probably would be a lot less trusting of me even if the cops couldn't ever find their body and whatnot.
Ah, NIMBY got it.
So the sino-indian war was in 62, but they've been salami slicing in indian aksai chin the past decade, and this is acknowledged by outside observers.
China isn't just brutal to its own people.
So nothing in the past decades, like I said. This isn't even remotely comparable to what Israel is doing.
They literally said China and India have been going at it in the past decade. Which they have. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_China%E2%80%93India_skirmishes
I wouldn't call people pushing each other a violent attack. It became bad not because they killed each other but because they were pushing each other on the top of a mountain.
Are you actually arguing that the deaths were all caused by people accidentally being pushed off a mountain? Really?
I wouldn't say accidentally, but it was mutual pushing.
The world doesn't work like a cartoon. There were guns and bombers involved. You can't be this naive.
What? I didn't know CNN was lying this whole time.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/14/asia/india-china-border-tensions-video-intl-hnk/index.html
Stupid western media wu maos. I never knew.
Seems like youre the one led by the nose by your fee fees
So please tell me what country has China violently attacked in the last few decades to:
Just once.
Country? The example was that china also willingly abuses and kills minority groups it has power over when convenient.
Do you need to be reminded of the many different minority groups china played "israeli genocide" with? Just because palestine is technically still a government doesnt change how israel, and the rest of the planet, treat them as a functional subdivision of israel.
Get your head on straight bud
Actually, the post above mentions those people were sent to camps and not killed. In fact, there's still no evidence of any deaths, just conjecture. The UN even visited and stated that while they don't believe there is killing happening that it still constitutes as human rights violations. So no, China hasn't
Personally, I believe the UN over conspiracy theorists like yourself.
The UN visited and said china's actions were crimes against humanity but pulled back from using the word genocide out of caution. That is not the same as saying they "they don't believe there is killing happening".
wikipedia/Uyghur Genocide
Also the only reason China hasn't had a deeper probe into the situation is it keeps getting downvoted at the UN Human Rights Council, guess who is voting against it? Qatar, Indonesia, the United Arab Emirates and Pakistan citing the risk of "alienating China".
Reuters
Ah yes, the Muslims who visited XinJiang and said they are OK with what China is doing. That's why it keeps getting downvoted. But China oppresses Muslims, how confusing. How does the hypocrisy line up in your head with no issues is beyond me.
So no refuting the info I posted just moving the goal posts?
I'm not moving goal posts, you are. I'm saying there's no evidence. You've confirmed there's no evidence. And then attacked the people who are Muslim and literally visited and confirmed there's no evidence. Because you didn't like the way they said it.
Pretty sure I alluded to multiple suppressions of minority rights, so Im not sure how the UN checked multiple time periods within a single visit, but woe to a lowly conspiracy theorist like me to question your claims of UN time travel.
Hey, just to double check. You wanna keep defending china with shit like "it was only multiple human rights violations"? Or did you want to start acting like a human being again?
I'm tired of morons accusing China of killing people, particularly like how Israel is doing to Palestine. There's no evidence anywhere and it's becoming idiotic to even try to compare what's happening in Gaza with anything China has done in the last few decades.
If you go back and read, they didn't accuse China of anything. They only stated that if they felt the need to have bombed the peoples, they would have. But maybe you're right that China would not have done that, so I'll just keep looking for the wiki page for NOTHING-BAD-HAPPENED Square.
You know it's funny. People keep bringing that up even though China fully admits it was a mistake and vowed to never do it again. The censorship people talk about is that China won't disclose how many people died, not that they don't admit it happened.
And then HK happened. And there are no examples of the police killing anyone. Only one rumor of a girl who committed suicide off a building people tried to attribute to the HK police. Even when they stole a police officer's gun, or lit a janitor on fire, the HK police didn't kill anyone.
But the BLM riots...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiU8sL7Yq9Q
But yeah, China bad.
Right, right, god forbid someone think the confirmed humans rights abusers might have also killed a few folks. Thats such a massive leap, from subjugation and dehumanization of an entire class of people to not only lesser living conditions and quality of life but a literal claim that they are inherently less human all the way to killing someone??!?
Goodness. Why would anyone think one leads to the other? Its like thinking very hot water in a metal pan over a fire would lead to boiling water. How conspiratorial.
Could you run me through that UN time travel bit again?
The problem with your argument is you're comparing to maybe probably killing a few folks with thousands in a day. Yeah OK, let's go with this whataboutism. USA kills tens of thousands, they're totally an evil organization. What about Australia. Least we forget about these war crimes.
https://fair.org/home/the-real-crime-isnt-australian-war-crimes-but-a-chinese-political-cartoon-about-australian-war-crimes/
Oh wait, why isn't the ICC allowed to go after USA? Oh right threats of violence.
Yeah but MAYBE China killed some people, totally the bad guys.
Re read the original post.
How high are you right meow?
It's been 44 years since their war with Vietnam. It's been 11 since they were involved in Mali as part of a multi-state force.
So decades and they defended a compound. Yeah?
Much more recently than the 70 years you claim though.
No it's not. I said 70 years since they attacked. What you're talking about is China's slow retreat out of Vietnam. That would be like arguing that USA invaded Afghanistan last year.
They've managed to be very belligerent in spite of that. They've flown incredibly close to US jets and veered away barely in time, and they do the same with all sorts of ships in the South China Sea -- which they claim as their own to an extent that would be equivalent to the US claiming the entire Gulf of Mexico. They've destroyed fishing ships and left fishermen stranded too.
China is not a model of peace to follow. It is a model for nascent global powers however in how to exercise and test out influence for acts without impunity.
They raped and tortured them form what I understand.
There's also the issue of the potential mass organ harvesting from people in China's "Reeducation Camps"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China
Yes, I remember when I learned about it, I was shook to the core... The harvesting of organs was cherry on top, absolute horror...
Same thing everywhere, dehumanise a people and they're just chicken in cages. God knows we've been far down that route
It’s apparent some believe silent torture is more civilised than bombs.
They are both horrifying forms of genocide.
If I were getting tortured and organ harvested I'd rather get bombed.
maybe the chinese can give them some tips, I heard they're pretty experienced in handling minorities...
"you just build a giant factory around them and start exporting"
And some camps for them to concen....to focus and recreate.
Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know Just Made A Great Point
So many Palestinians dead....do you understand how much free labour you could've gotten out of them?
wow, says by the nation who abuses Filipino fishermen, claiming they own the entire West Philippine Sea
Hey you're missing out the part where they literally run concentration camp torturing Uyghurs!
Dude, Huawei allegedly partnering with China to identify Uyghurs.
Projection gaming. Classic China lmao
Their 9-dash line claim failed. So they have freshly-baked 10-dash line lol
More dashes, more chances of winning
Because the Chinese government treats Muslims so well, right?
I wonder what they would do if the Uyghurs revolted... oh wait, we do know, we have precedent, just look how they treated their students.
Did they get bombed?
The Chinese are more frugal in their methods of genocide, but the disregard for human life is about the same.
No but they are forced into re-education and labor camps and have their organs harvested among other things
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2021/06/china-un-human-rights-experts-alarmed-organ-harvesting-allegations
Nope, just got kidnapped and their organs stolen.
Nope, just shot and ran over by tanks to such an extent they were not even recognizable
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide
I'm very inclined to ignore West Taiwan's position on matters of ethics and morality.
Pro-tip: If you’re pitching a Taiwanese company, saying “West Taiwan” is almost a guarantee of winning the business.
Genocidal China has problem with more genocide? Whut?
This is one of those things that is so set in people's minds, I'd love to know what you actually imagine happening when you say it - like what you're picturing.
I've been giving friends pop quizes about Xinjiang when they bring it up, so far not found a single person who knows anything about any single part of it.
It's interesting because so many people claim to be deeply concerned about it but no one ever seems to have any real desire to learn about it, I've seen a million infographics this week about Palestines population and the history and everything but no one ever posts facts about the situation in China even though it's mentioned endlessly in glib comments.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide
But have you given your friends any pop quizzes though?
“Friends”
At a guess, it may be because it's not as easily accessible by the western media. If they can't report on it directly, they won't give it full attention apart from the occasional opinion piece or blog and that won't make a headline or sell papers.
No money to make, no reporting to be done.
Lol wtf is this, the onion?
I thought the CCP hated Muslims too.
Gee, maybe religion isn't the sole factor in all of this?
Communists hate religion. The CCP is disingenuous.
The CCP doesn't define communism.
But they are communists.
Here's an idea? Let the Chinese government administer Gaza! They have experience reeducting Muslims right? Then all Gazaouis muslims will become Jewish, Christian, atheist, you name it! Possibilities are endless.
They'll all be Chinese!
😐
So Palestine is now supported by russia, Syria, Iran, China, all the greatest and most fair countries in the world.
It's quite an obvious geopolitical win for them. It's not hard to notice that the "western" reactions to the Russian occupation of Ukraine is pretty inconsistent with the support of the Israeli occupation of Gaza and the West Bank. Obviously support for Ukraine is the right thing to do, but again, inconsistent policy is easy to critique.
Exceedingly rare W
They're the Team Rocket of this world.
You're conflating multiple things. Most notably, you're conflating criticizing Israel with praising Hamas.
Bravo. You nailed it. Thank you.
At the “start” of this, I didn’t really have an opinion. But that’s mostly due to lack of knowledge and the complexity of the issue.
I was initially siding with Israel as they were hit first, but their response has made me rethink things.
I’m still really undecided and am unqualified to make an opinion anyway.
"As they were hit first."
Whooboy. You have to go far, far, far back in history, buddy.
People were on TV news saying the Israelis are like Native Americans getting their land back 🤣🤣🤣
It's OK not too have a side. Israel and Palestine have been going at it for so long and the history is so complex that there is literally blame on both sides.
The graphs here go to 2008 and the situation has been going on for decades before that
The fact that you consider yourself unqualified to make an opinion probably makes you more qualified to do so than 95% of the idiots out there whose opinions are already firmly established.
Do you feel the need to take a side
The only side I give a shit about are the civilians just trying to live their lives
The pressure is all over these comment sections. Not this one in particular.
Interesting thought, when you have countries sending aid to one side or the other, or protests pro one way or the other, makes you think you should have a side.
It's really complicated. If you trace back why people did what they did, including motivations, you'll end up centuries back. I stopped in the Russian revolutionary time period last time I tried.
Is it even safe to start from the Ottomans?
Goes even further than that I suspect, but I'm not sure. I would seriously not be surprised though if you could trace it to the Romans in Jerusalem.
The Romans created the diaspora in the first place. How relevant that is to the modern conflict is debatable. Zionists certainly use the ancient Jewish kingdoms as evidence of their legitimacy.
I think it does trace that far back then. The diaspora is likely a large contributing factor in why Jews were so often persecuted in Europe, which was what created the desire for a Jewish state in the first place. And I do think that is a fair desire and claim, but the way the British did it was completely wrong.
To generalize this out to other wars and conflicts, even regular old arguments, there are almost always pre-existing conditions and tensions leading up to the first major attack. Even things like WWI, where the catalyst was the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. But there is quite obviously more to the atmosphere, national ambitions, etc. etc. that make it so that the separatists wanted to assassinate him, and make it so that Austria-Hungary wanted to invade Serbia and used this as an excuse. A war would have happened anyway, no matter who attacked first.
Iarael's response is to destroy the terrorist organizario that is responsible for all of this misery.
And how does that justify bombing evacuation convoys?
Israel didn't bomb evacuation convoys, from what I know at least, it's fake news.
I read the phrase "fake news" and my stomach immediately turns upside down.
Gaza civilians afraid to leave home after bombing of 'safe routes' - The Guardian https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/14/gaza-civilians-afraid-to-leave-home-after-bombing-of-safe-routes
Here is proof, you can decide for yourself who did it
Arguments, not proof, also unstated ones - we only see drawn conclusions. Israel didn't confirm or accept blame, but I won't deny it could've been a mistake or a moment of confusion. But that would still not be "attacking evacuation convoys", but an isolated case, especially since, it seems according to the article that the designation of safe roads happened after the strike - though the timing is also not exact.
Israel does not want to harm innocent civilians. If you don't believe that, surely you agree that it has nothing to gain from that but bad influence.
They have lots of land to gain, they are already using this to attack people in the west bank
If Israel wanted land why did it agree to several 2 state solutions (which palastinians declined)? Why did it exit Gaza?
If they don't then why do they keep making new settlements in the west bank?
Why did america leave Vietnam or Afghanistan?
Because the resistance isn't worth it.
Same reason for Israel and gaza
There are videos, so which part is fake news?
They even took the time to analyze shadow placement for time and location verification
History has proven time and time again that this is the worst possible way to do that. Israel is either stupid or is acting intentionally with another purpose.
I think this is unprecedented. Everything about this actually, not just Israel deciding to end Hamas... So I don't know if history showed this before, I do know that previous attempts at pacifying Hamas - as opposed to ending it - did happen, and we definitely see now they achieved nothing...
Oh are they going to ban Likud?
Having seen what Hamas did, can you really deny they're terrorists, on the same level as ISIS? Filming themselves, kidnapping teens, rape and torture, beheading babies... Parading half naked bodies in the streets to spit and cheer at.
I want Netanyahu out of office. But he's not running around doing that, don't be ridiculous.
"Before the Hamas incursion and subsequent Israeli military response, it was believed that Israel and Saudi Arabia, driven by a common animus toward Iran, were working toward a normalization of relations, a development that could have shifted the dynamic in the Middle East."
Who wants the dynamic in the Middle East to remain unchanged?
Oh wait you're serious.
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Oh wait you're serious.
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As long as Hamas still actively holds hostages its fair game.
The US calls out something bad and people point out the hypocrisy: "wHaTaBoUtIsM"
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China is suggesting Uyghur style genocide instead. I misspoke I meant "reducation"
I liked how Vlad Vexler put it. I'd try to paraphrase, but it's probably better to let him speak for himself:
https://youtu.be/nbPZ5m_WOYs?si=Q0B760C3LFa27AsX
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/nbPZ5m_WOYs?si=Q0B760C3LFa27AsX
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Wtf I love Israel now