How should I handle an ex friend who feels like he needs to bully me to raise his own self esteem? (We're adults)
I went to college with this guy 10 years ago and I considered him a friend up until this year. Something changed in him, and he constantly needs to put me down and I don't know how to handle it.
We're both 28, for reference.
Last year, he reported me to the college because I was doing students' homework for them for some extra cash. He said that what I was doing was depreciating his Diploma. I guess I get it, but what kind of friend would try to get me in trouble for something as harmless as doing people's homework? He didn't ask me to stop first or talk to me about it first, he just flat out reported me. Some friend.
Edit: I'm not saying what I did was not wrong. If he valued my friendship, he would have talked to me first. And I would have valued our friendship enough to stop.
I ended up dropping out of the program because of stress. He graduated this spring. I congratulated him and genuinely was happy for him. He then sends me this really childish text, bragging about how he graduated and I didn't. Here's a quote from part of the conversation. No joke, this is word for word:
"Hey [my name], just letting you know that I am an engineer now and you aren't. Also I just got hired at [his work] and am making $34 now just to start. There will be a party at [local bar] to celebrate my graduation. You should come. There will be resumes being taken, you should submit yours, because people like me always need assistants. Even though you are not an engineer by any means."
I thought, maybe he's being intentionally arrogant as a joke that I'm supposed to get. But that's not the case, this kind of talk continued for months. And he means it to be hurtful.
I couldn't take it anymore, so I blocked him on everything I could think of.
A little bit of background information, I recently started my own business making custom tools. This quote was a part of what he commented on my Instagram picture of one of my tools yesterday:
"You should stop posting these online, it's really embarrassing because your [tool name] is such a failure. I should redesign all of it for you because I'm actually an engineer at [company name] and have a lot more experience. I could actually do it right, unlike you. I just might help you if you ask me nicely."
Like, what the hell did I do to deserve that? I don't know why I let it even bother me because of how obviously immature he is being.
I didn't respond. I blocked him on Instagram too, but now he's trying to message me on LinkedIn. Blocked him there now too.
I'm still friends with his brother, so it's impossible for me to completely block him out from my life unfortunately.
I almost want to explain to him how narcissistic he is, and how his messages are an obvious cry of mental insecurity. I know that that would just be fueling the fire though, and would solve nothing.
He deserves to be put in his place. I don't know if that's possible though without me becoming just as petty as he is.
How should I handle this? He's bound to see me in the future, so there's no avoiding his bullshit.
Thanks
The best way to get back at someone is to have a great life. Ignore him and block him, and carry on with your great life.
He’s obviously insecure, fragile, and arrogant. Move on - you’ll never win anything by stopping to his level, and you’ll never convince him to change his ways by putting him in his place. The older you get, the more you realize quickly people just aren’t worth your time.
When you see him next, just ignore him. When he gossips about you to his brother or your friends in an attempt to get a rise out of you, laugh and ignore him.
Have a great life, and fuck that guy.
Thank you. Spot on.
My one addition is to consider how you will handle this as time goes on. Will you laugh it off to mutual friends with a "Why would I care what he says? There are a million people who's opinions of me matter more."? When would you consider it actual harassment? What impact would it have to have on your life to effect your mental well being enough to take action, and what would that action be?
I pose these questions because proactively answering them can put you in a much better situation in that happy life. Most likely, it will also mature your opinion of the situation over time, allowing you to be just the right balance of firm but level-headed on how you alter those plans when and if the time comes.
As time goes on, I'd rather not think about him at all, but for the rare times that I do, I would want to laugh it off, because his way of bragging is actually kind of funny.
Sounds like you're in a healthy place, that's great.
Well said - great advice. Giving this guy as little room in OP’s head as possible and concentrating on having a good life is the best answer
And I will have a good life :)
Bro it's petty revenge time. [Company name] needs to see these messages and asked if this is representative of their company values.
This is my thought too.
Being the bigger person is all well and good but sometimes petty revenge hits different.
You do not wanna mess with narcissists though, it's not worth the trouble.
Likely would be difficult to get those messages in front of the right person at said company. Also bit hard to for them to verify it is not some scam. I wouldn't bother but it is a nice thought.
Odds are that you did nothing. He's clearly an emotional vulture, he probably does it towards everyone around him.
I don't recommend framing it as immaturity, as it might give you the false hope that he'll "grow up" and get better over time. Perhaps he gets better, but odds are that he won't.
Some people might say "let it go", or "vengeance is never good, it kills the soul and poisons it". I'm almost 40 and I got something to say about this pacifist discourse:
Screw this masochistic shit. When you turn the other face you are not saying "I'm better than him"; you're saying "he's right in treating me as trash, as I am trash". You want to ruin his life and make him regret existing.
So, here's what I'd do:
That's actually great for you. It means that he kept contacting you after showed clear desire to not be contacted further. Depending on the local laws this gives you grounds for legal action.
And since the guy is a fucking idiot flaunting the fact that he's an engineer, you might also contact his business. Be polite towards them, but highlight the fact that one of their employees is harassing you. Even if he doesn't get fired, it'll put him in a poor position later on.
The difference between "being petty" and "standing your ground" is why. You are in a position to screw him up without being petty.
You'll also want to ruin the psychological "kick" that he gets from harassing you. Ignoring him on the surface (while documenting it) is a good approach, because he'll feel unsatisfied but he'll try a bit harder.
Also shield yourself psychologically. Remember - you are not the problem, he is the problem.
Vengeance is not a dish to be served cold. You warm it in the blood of your enemies.
Thank you. That makes sense.
While I second documenting things since it sounds like you’re being harassed, I do not agree with the motive.
I dunno. If he keeps mentioning his employer, ah, they will want to know that, but this shouldn’t be about revenge- more about ending the harassment. Though chances are he will escalate if he gets fired or sees disciplinary action. (And he will at least be told to knock it off. Hes making them look bad.)
Also? Your probably a better engineer than he is- and that’s why he’s being an ass. a stupid slip of paper doesn’t mean jackshit. Well, it does, but it doesn’t make him an engineer. there’s plenty of people who are amazing engineers without a formal education.
(For example, Burt Munro. There’s a movie that you might like- Worlds fastest Indian. He holds the land speed record for the under-1k hp engines. On an engine he cast pistons by mixing pistons from different makes to get the right alloy.)
Thanks. I'm not trying to boost my ego here when I say this, but I have a lot more experience with Engineering and CAD modelling than he does. Pretty sure he feels threatened.
He has his formal piece of paper and his formal job, which I suppose outranks my outside-of-school experience, because it's proper and formal.
Take screenshots, especially those on public forums. It's defamation.
Frankly? This sort of response above is unhinged. If this person is as awful as you say, just get them out of your life and move on. Trying to document everything, calling their friends and family, spending this much time on someone who is awful and not worth the time nor the effort? You're going to drive yourself crazy and somehow they're still going to be in your life making you miserable.
I'm sorry this person is terrible to you, but the best "vengeance" is forgetting all about them and being happy doing what you want to do. The more space they take up in your mind, the worse you're going to feel about the whole situation.
Not really. He is being a dick, so turn yourself into a bigger dick? Document all interactions? Wtf kinda bullshit is this.
Having and nurturing a grudge against that guy does not help you in any way. Ignore him and live your own life happily. Not worth wasting your time and happiness like that.
Documenting interactions as way to prove harrasment (which is illegal) is not a dick move, it is the obvious adult move. The harasser deserves punishment for his crimes, which will likely be a fine and a restraining order. His actions should also be made public, so others may act upon it (I'd fire him immediately, rather than let him fester in my organization)
Fighting back is not being a dick.
Documenting all interactions gives OP the necessary resources to transform this into a legal matter, if OP so desires.
Not fighting back will likely end with OP feeling like shit, with a bigger grudge towards the bully and himself for not acting.
Did you even read the OP??? This shit has been going for TEN YEARS. OP already tried to ignore him, it did not work; OP already tried to contact him in a friendly way (congratulating him for the grad), and it did not work either. Odds are that this shit will go on until someone forces the moron to stop.
That what you naive pacifists don't get - "just walk away lol! how hard it is lmao!" does not always work. It won't make the bullying "magically" stop, nor "magically" prevent the psychological damage to the person.
Yeah wtf was that comment and how is it upvoted? Sure, OP doesn't need to take shit and can fight back, but "ruining people's lifes"? Conspiring with other people to "make him wish he was never born"? Gerting him fired? How is that supposed to be useful? How does that solve anything?
Wtf is this comment? So you either "turn the other cheek" and just let him harrass you, or else "you have to ruin his life and make him wish he was never born"?
You are right that OP doesn't have to "turn the other cheek" and does not have to put up with people's shit, but just because you should not turn yourself into a masochist that does not mean you should turn yourself into a sadist..
Of course there are moral limits on what OP should do in this situation; that is a given. "Ruin his life and make him wish he was never born", in this context*, is being used to hyperbolically convey "don't passively accept this shit, stand your ground and fight back".
*note how none of the actions that I suggested OP taking would be undue retribution to his former friend's actions.
"I'm still friends with his brother, so it's impossible for me to completely block him out from my life unfortunately."
No, it is possible. If you happen to lose his brother as a friend then that's an unfortunate consequence.
Life's too short to have to deal with assholes like that. Not worth your limited time on this planet. Find new friends.
This man is NOT your friend, and even if he is, it's not your responsibility to fix him and solve his problems, or even "put him in his place". Otherwise, as you've realized, he will drag you down to his level and make you as cynical and miserable as he is.
You should put whatever you had with him behind you at this point and try not to interact with him in the future, and if you are put into a situation where you have to interact with him, use the "grey rock" strategy and be as boring as possible.
This sound like the best thing to do. Just ignore him and move on, try not to waste any more energy on him. If put in the same room as him, don't interact with him. If he starts talking with you, try explaining that you do not want to talk with him and just keep ignoring. Never give a bully a reaction.
Is the sudden personality change as drastic as it reads?
Sudden switches like that could be a sign of a serious medical condition, mid 20s is I believe a common age for these things to kick in too.
I'd talk to the brother about it coming from an angle of concern.
I think I can almost remember the exact day that he shifted. We were talking about our previous girlfriends and he very openly bragged that he's slept with better looking women than I have (I'm not like that). He kept talking about it over and over that day, I could see he was getting a lot of enjoyment out of it.
Before this, he was a different person. Overall good morals, good friend for the most part, rarely put me down.
It was very sudden.
It was also about the time he started to drink really heavily, but that might not be directly related.
Maybe you were with someone he actually liked, and he thought you knew it. A stretch for sure, but it's a trigger for some.
Starting to drink really heavily is… well a key bit of information. I lost some friends years back when I got depressed. Didn’t even realize what I was doing, I just became an unfunny dick and thought I was the opposite. Didn’t realize what went wrong till I climbed back out of the depression. Still regret losing them as friends to this day.
Too much water under the bridge to talk to them again?
Yeah too long since and now too awkward. Not even sure how to get in touch with them.
Too bad. :(
The alcohol is likely related. He might be insecure or something and projecting it on you, liquid courage probably makes him feel more comfortable being an asshole.
But he did put you down. That's not a good friend. He was like this the whole time, but chose to mostly hold back. Now he's stopped.
Remove him from your life.
Oh... Well there you go! He's probably drunk when he posts those things. He probably thinks they're very witty and funny in a cool guy sort of way. He probably doesn't remember in the morning and then feels guilty when he sees them. Does he delete the posts the next day or two after saying them? If so, that's typical blackout drunk behavior.
Yes he has deleted Facebook messages he sent me on many occasions. Luckily I take screenshots.
That's probably the answer to the riddle then. He's a blackout drunk, and a mean one at that.
BTW, his arrogance about being an engineer right after graduating is laughable. As someone who has been a software engineer for 20 years now, I wouldn't consider him an engineer. I would consider him someone who potentially has the education to become an engineer. I'm still learning things every day after 20 years, and there are days that I feel like idk WTF I'm doing or how I deserve my job. By all accounts I'm good at what I do, but I still have a lot of shit to learn. His arrogance at accomplishing step 1 of a 30 year path is pathetic. It sounds like you're doing well for yourself, so just keep that up and write this guy off as a loss. If he keeps harassing you then get a restraining order.
Or some sort of personal issue as the cause. Maybe you slept with someone he liked, maybe you are someone he liked, could he have looked up to you and then in your eyes you came crashing down?
"friend" - you keep using this word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
Dude this shithead isn't your friend. I have enemies who have more respect for me than this guy does for you..
Dump this dick
Something similar happened to me just last month with the person I called my "best friend".
He had been having personal issues for the past year that he can't figure out on his own, but he's generally someone who can't honestly take responsibility for himself and regards his opinion as the word of god, basically.
He has been putting me down often in the past, even though he said he "always looked up for me for the peace I found". I never really cared much for those words of his because I knew they came from a place of deep hurt.
However, he has not apologized once and at some point I started asking myself why I was calling this person my (best) friend. Well, after his last lashing out I just gave up and cut contact. I was trying a lot to help and understand him, but how do you help someone who went to 4 different therapists and called them all incompetent?
You don't. They have to figure out that they don't live in reality themselves, and I was not going to tolerate his disrespect anymore - I have enough other friends who treat me well, and my life honestly has not changed at all. He is not an interesting person anyway, all he can talk about are games, his pain and his delusions.
So what I'm trying to say is - cut your losses. This person, for whatever reason, does not want to gove you the respect you deserve, and that is alright. There are a lot of others who will, and those are the people you should put your energy into.
I had this same thing happen with a friend of mine, he was being manipulated by his partner at the time, 1 slow motion train crash later, he got diagnosed with bipolar, medicated and stabilized. We talk a bit again, it’s nice to see him in a stable place. But if someone refuses to hear what the therapist says and dismisses them or hides information from them they aren’t really going to be able to get proper help.
Anybody who says "I might just help if you ask me nicely" deserves to be cut out of your life completely.
fuck this moron, drive on with your life, he's a bucket of nuclear waste
Yeah, but like, after he throws a bottle of bee pheromones through his window, right?
I mean if you have such thing handy, if you're going to synthesize it and supply the critters I'd advocate murder hornets. or if you're really evil and brave, bed bugs
This situation sounds like what restraining orders are designed to help with. IANAL, but restraining orders generally cover all types of communication, including social media. Showing that he has continued to harass you even after blocking him is good reason.
Out if curiosity, have you ever tried calling his bluff? Reply with how would he improve it by saying any constructive criticism is appreciated. Something like
Depending on how you're feeling, you could incorporate tagging their company. Use the same language they used. Something like
That said, it seems like the time to reply like that has past and it's best to ignore/block him at this point.
The worst thing you can do with trolls is feed them.
This guy sounds like a text book narcissist. The worst thing you can do is tell a narcissist they are a narcissist. It will do nothing and will only make them double down. The best thing you can do is cut them out of your life.
I had a similar situation when I was in my 20s. Friend I had that I've known since highschool would always make remarks about how I got so lucky with my job. Because I was making decent money (more than him) without a degree and he was an engineer. It didn't matter that I worked my ass off and put in thousands of hours, I was lucky.
If I would ever push back or say something he would just double down. I couldn't bring up the fact that I didn't have parents that paid for everything while I was in school, so I had to work and go to college at the same time. I finally realized that was just the way he was going to be, so I limited contact with him. However, his comments never went as far as what you are describing. So, I think you're doing the right thing by just blocking him.
I highly recommend reading the book Emotional Vampires. It teaches you about the different personality types you'll run into in the working world and how to deal with each type (when you can't just avoid them). I wish I had read it 20 years ago.
He was like this inside from the beginning. He didnt change just the inside got outside.
So he was always a d**k head. They can do anythyng because the law allow them. Dont let him step on you.
I'd say you got it down. Just keep blocking and avoiding. At least now you know he's not your friend, so you won't walk into any incidental interactions thinking otherwise.
Exactly. If he approaches me in person, I'm not going to pretend he's my friend and stroke his batshit crazy ego, I'm going to treat him neutrally but not entertain him.
Just walk away. Block him any place he contacts you and don't give him another thought. Why does he get to live rent free in your head? Evict him.
I mean… fuck both of you is my reaction to this. You’re committing academic fraud and he’s an asshole.
Well, at the end of the day the students I did homework for still need to write their tests and exams on their own. They still earned their grades.
Edit: Ok, ok. I won't justify it any further. I guess majority here conclude that it was a serious offence. I believe you.
You know how I earned extra money in school? Tutoring. So fuck you. Fraud is fraud.
I tutored as well.
Eh honestly I'm with you on this homework isn't an effective learning tool for everyone. Plus it's not like you're handing out fake degrees even if you were who cares? what matters is if they can do the job
Tell him to stfu and to stop talking to you. He clearly hasn't gotten the message across. The solution to bullying is really just be aggressive back until they fuck off.
Yup! One guy tried bullying me in school, so I punched him as hard as I could in the stomach and walked away. He never tried bullying me again. Unfortunately that doesn't work so well online. Engaging with them at all keeps them riled up since there aren't any real world consequences. So OP either needs to bring the consequences to the real world like showing dude's employer his online activities, or get a restraining order. Fighting him in a fist fight would be a poor choice as an adult, since OP is very likely to experience real world consequences himself.
Send his comments to his employer. He's representing their business in this manner, they should know. Maybe post it on social and tag the company
What I would have done is reply on that comment where he mentioned he works for X pinging the handle of that company on the social media asking if all of their employees harass people online, that way they're forced to do something about it because it becomes public. If they don't act on it people looking for their handle might end up finding your answer and that might dissuade people from doing business with them.
The good advice is to just move on. The petty advice is to screenshot all of his bullshit where he flaunts the company he works for as well as whatever other unsavory bits he's posted and report it to his employers HR team. Just an idea, you could also bang his mom
Yeah I see what you mean. I want to be the bigger person and just ignore him.
I note you didn't completely reject banging his mom.
Their age is about the age their parents likely had them. Hence their parents are twice their age. His friends parents too.
Late 30s, early 40s is when the idea someone 50+ can really be appreciated.
If you want his mom banged, I volunteer. Just let me find my Old Spice...
Fuck his mom and/or dad..or just beat his face in one day out of nowhere and walk away
Send a glitter bomb to his office.
Are you sure you were ever friends? I wouldn't treat my worst enemy that way.
I'd just straight up tell him to leave you the fuck alone.
At one time, yes we were friends, and I believed that we had mutual respect. That all changed one random day, and he just lost all respect for me.
Not like you should report him to his job, but just like cheating on people's homework, it's bad branding and potentially illegal for a company to represent itself for hiring like this.
If HR found out he was soliciting for resumes but also telling people they weren't good enough for roles at the company.... They'd not be happy.
I second the person who says you need to bring this public behavior to the attention of his employer.
He reported you for misconduct and the sword of damocles swings both ways.
Indeed he should do this, after all he's mentioning his employer.
Either that or shank him in a tasteful and thoughtful manner.
Please do not do this. If this is who the "friend" is, his employer will figure it out. OP was reported for actual fraud. Please do not be so petty as to attempt to ruin a person's life based off an internet commenter who has heard one side and has no understanding of the involved people's mental state or life situations. It wouldn't work anyway.
Sure it does. I've done it!
Code of Conduct and ethical behavior are for everyone, not just people who follow the rules in college. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Now, professionally, I'm under an exceptional amount of scrutiny for ethical behavior and I very much should be! I work with marginalized and underrepresented people! They are easy to exploit and are very protected by the law, as well as our ethics. I've reported others for their unethical behavior (as well as conducted conversations about appropriate interaction with the people we support).
What that means is, my (metaphorical) nuts are at the band saw every minute of every day. I am absolutely fine with that. It needs to be that way. And if I have a reportable offense, if I ever refer to my actual employer by their name online, I hope to God someone reports me. Because I need a reality check, and I need one badly.
Goose, gander. Rules for thee, rules for me. The poster isn't somehow allowed to be abused because they did something in the past (which they paid for!) by someone with a superiority complex. That person isn't somehow immune to the consequences of their actions just because of something OP did in the past.
this poor dude is just jealous and fearful of your natural mojo
Ignore him. Narcissists really hate that.
One who believed that you had already betrayed him, apparently. That's not an excuse for ongoing harassment, though.
In many academic institutions, including some of the highest reputed engineering schools, your former friend would have been considered equally guilty if he failed to report your academic dishonesty. Asking you to quit cheating would not be an acceptable alternative; that would be concealing your violation.
Dude is still being a harasser, which is also unacceptable conduct. Two wrongs don't make a right. But you're still pretending you did nothing wrong. That's not super great either.
The irony is that the students that I did homework for graduated, and I didn't
That's not irony, it's karma? Consequences? Definitely not irony, though.
Would you report a valued friend for the same thing? Honestly, I'm curious. Maybe I'm out of touch.
stop worrying about these people giving you grief about it.. they don't matter either..
You're right. It's hard not to take things personally sometimes, but I guess learning to not care so much about what others think is something that can improve with practice.
the ability to ask people for feedback is a great strength.. i wouldn't try to stop you from doing that.. but it sounds like you know what you were doing..
If your response to anything is ever 'stop snitching' then you already know your doing the wrong thing.
Maybe you just don't know the definition of "irony". People use it improperly all the time. I don't think anything in that song by Alanis Morissette is actually ironic.
Personally, I don't think there's ever an excuse for cheating; academically it really only harms the cheater. People in college offered me a lot of money to do their work for them. I never accepted, but I also never tattled on them. Grades honestly, really, don't matter in the long run.
This is a real bizarre thing for him to do. You are definately in his head. Congrats on that. Did you fuck his girlfriend... Wife... Dog? If not, you should.
Nonviolence never solved anything
-Mr. Burns
You were commiting fraud. He did nothing wrong by reporting you. Don't want to get reported? Don't commit fraud.
He shouldn't be saying what you wrote. Nobody should be saying something with the intention of being hurtful.
Both of you are wrong. The only thing anyone here deserves is for both of you to stop and move on. Ignore the other person, eventually they'll get the idea.
Well, ok, but you'd think he'd at least talk to me first? If he genuinely had an issue with it, I would value our friendship enough to stop.
Well we are only getting your side of the story, and it is not uncommon for people to omit facts about a situation that makes themselves look bad.
It would have been nice for him to talk to you about it first, but thats only a courtesy and not a requirement. Its possible that law or school regulations require reporting and do not allow for him to talk to you about it, as it may include him in the action. Its also possible that he felt slighted by something you did, even if you aren't aware of it.
Either way, what you were doing was wrong and his reporting you was not a wrong action. His way of treating you is a wrong action.
Both wrong, both should ignore each other and move on.
What you were doing was big enough to go straight to reporting. The way he saw you as a person probably changed. Its really not surprising he didn't talk to you first.
I mean if you were sharing homework answers or olds test, or even cheating on your own test that would be different. You were compltly doing others homework for money. You keep saying that they still did the tests. Well depending on the class, the homework is a big part of the grade. Not to mention all the added free time they get by not doing homework. Extra time to study, less stress, and a boost to their grade. Plus you were doing this for money, not to help a friend or so they would help you with yours. AND it was multiple people, many times throughout the class. On scale of severity, what you did isn't the absolute worst possible but it's getting close.
This is only the second or third time that I'm talking about it with anyone else. I didn't know it was this serious.
I could tell, that's why I went in depth. I'm surprised you didn't get expelled.
I guess I could have, eh. I did end up getting in trouble for it. I had a research job that they fired me from.
Different people consider different things serious.
The guy is massively toxic to you. Why do you want to keep that around? Just cut him out of your life. Someone like that isn't worth anyone's time or your second chances. It's like he genuinely wants to hurt you. Both by rubbing in the fact that he graduated and also destroying any of your chances at succeeding your business. Fuck him.
That is unless, you're not telling us the full story and you've done something to him. Then maybe you can understand why he's going out of his way to hurt you... Either way that friend isn't going to work.
And you who is supposed to be innocent is saying "you could have at least tried to guilt me into stopping even though I knew what i was doing was fraud"
I'd agree if they were colleagues/strangers. I would never report a friend for that. I'd voice my opinion at the most but reporting them is effectively nuking the friendship.
Is he maybe autistic?
He can't have suddenly turned autistic.
Yeah you can't suddenly become autistic
It's the damn COVID vaccine!/s
He has dyslexia.
So... No.
Correct