Lemmy sucks. You're whiney fucks. Enjoy the win. Both sides are not the same. This is an unfathomable event previously. Anyone remember Jeff Sessions first months in office? Stop bitching and show some fucking gratitude. Thousands of people are being pardoned. Is it perfect and everything we want? No. Does that take away from the achievement? No.
Purity tests all the way down and it's why populism never actually works. You can't be happy, even a little bit, about incremental progress if the "real problem" hasn't been dealt with. That problem will always be broad and impossible to truly achieve outside of theory. You end up with an ideology just centered around anger and despair.
People who do this shit maintain positions they know are practically unworkable because the thing they fear most is actually having to govern and make difficult choices in the real world and then answer for the consequences of those decisions. It's much easier to just loudly state a preference for fantasy.
It just rings extremely hollow after he spent the last three years shoveling money at state police departments that are going to keep on harassing and brutalizing people by the tens of thousands for marijuana possession, not to mention the fact that he could reschedule and effectively legalize marijuana on a federal level but chooses not to do so
More generally speaking, you just can't be surprised that people are skeptical of Biden when his supporters constantly ignore context and straight up lie to pretend that he's someone he's not
As opposed to fucking what? Trump? Because more and worse Trump is what you'd get if you didn't have Biden.
He's not perfect. But he's managed to keep this crumbling nation together for at least a few more years. Every single option on the Republican side is a nightmare compared to Biden. If the Democrats can come up with someone better than Biden who can also defeat the Republican nominee, great, let's do it. Until then, we should all remember that there's a huge fucking cliff from where we are now vs where we'd be without Biden.
the fact that he could reschedule and effectively legalize marijuana
No he can’t. He can direct the DEA to look into rescheduling the drug, a process he has already started. But he doesn’t have the authority to unilaterally force them to reschedule it. He could theoretically Saturday Night Massacre the DEA into doing it, but they really wouldn’t be a good look.
You are top comment. I always hated this "reddit sucks" attitude that everyone always adopted, especially when taking the most common and popular opinions on the platform.
Hahahahahaahhahahhaa I rarely go back to see votes and shit.. I've yet to ever have a highly voted comment here. Only bc your reply did I catch this. Phenomenal it's this comment
Like all the people bitching about the reddit hivemind just because they have an opinion that isn't literally dominant.
Hivemind was always the wrong word anyway. It's more of a mob mentality than anything organized and productive like a hive.
There are a lot of right wing Poe's law trolls here pretending to be leftists, and a handful of people who get caught up in their privileged contrarian virtue. It's shocking to me that this isn't extremely obvious to more people here.
I think there's also a lot of far left people here accusing left people to be right wing.
For sure. Actual leftists often criticize the Dems, because the Dems aren't leftist. They are mostly just centrists and they are in bed with Corporate America. That being said, I don't understand why some people have to criticize every little thing. I have been pretty critical of the Democratic party, myself, as a self identifying Socialist (begrudgingly still vote for them, because the other 1 option is way worse). These pardons are a good thing, though, and I don't see what the problem is for some people.
Some extreme leftists just turn into such contrarians that they end up sounding the same as right wing fear mongerers. It's like the political spectrum is a circle, with both of the left and right ends meeting up in a bubble of authoritarianism and hate.
Same ideals here
These pardons are a good thing, though, and I don’t see what the problem is for some people.
I think the problem is that there's a very real sense that the party will make the first step the only step if we let them.
100%. Look at all the cities that rolled back progress on changes made to their police departments from the BLM movement as soon as they could.
It will be if the left criticizes biden for not doing more while at the same time praising hamas as a resistance force
It will be if we stop applying pressure while at the same time mindlessly supporting genocide for its own sake.
A zillion percent. So much so I blocked a ton of keywords of political posts showing up for me here
Then I ate a bunch of edibles and wrote an essay about my feelings on the matter.
I think there's a lot of centrists who scream that all criticism from their left comes from all the way to their right in order to dismiss it.
Well observed. Def feels like that is what's been ramping up lately
Lemmy sucks.
I'm sorry you're forced to be here.
It didn't suck when I chose to come here.
And it still doesn't. Not everyone has to fake an orgasm over every incrementalist baby step just because you want them to.
Your comment is what sucks:
I'm asking "Why does everyone treat a base hit, the same as a game losing strikeout?"
You're accusing me of saying "Why aren't you assholes celebrating this base hit like a grand slam?!"
Please take a second to think about this without taking it personally. If the analogy is off let me know how so and I'll try again.
If the analogy is off let me know how so and I’ll try again.
Ok. If you wanna do baseball analogies, let's. Democrats have a tendency to hit the showers without finishing the game as soon as they hit a single. No amount of rejoicing over the single is gonna get them to the world series.
Hahahaahahha well done. I'm tearing up laughing at how real that is. Once more, I don't disagree with you. Doesn't change the fact Lemmy has a shitty attitude and no joy. I have gratitude for this order by Biden. None of the dialogue on this post and this action, is about the legitimate positive impact of the change in policy stance.
Personally, I think people who generalize and complain about Lemmy or Reddit as if they're some sort of monoliths or "hiveminds" are the ones with the shitty attitude.
Doesn’t change the fact Lemmy has a shitty attitude and no joy.
There is no joy in Mudville.
That was one of the first books I ever owned. Major lasting impression for some reason.
Are you old enough to remember Billy Crystal talking about baseball stats on a horse, in theaters?
I don't think you can blame people for being sick of the negativity. It's everywhere these days. You can't get away from it. You'd be forgiven for thinking that this smallish move on Biden's part would be greeted with indifference rather than outright boos, but no, nothing is ever good enough, this is the world we live in.
Enjoy the win.
No. The political racketeers that caused this problem tacitly admitting that they've destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives for no reason at all is in no way or shape any kind of "win."
When they start paying reparations to all the people they've victimized through these self-serving laws throughout the decades, then we can start talking about "wins."
are you genuinely politically impressed by this
at least our complaints are encouraging momentum rather than dusting off our hands and doing a smithers esque very good sir! because he pardoned people with fake charges that should've never existed that he and his VP gleefully enforced and implicitly defended for years and years
I completely disagree that your complaints spur a single thing. Every heard the phrase "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar"? Or how about if I get your thoughts on how to rear a child? Do you beat them, complain about their accomplishments constantly, or do you encourage and support them? Encouragement, support, and excitement do more to inspire change than any amount of complaints.
Incrementalism is the only bloodless way to achieve true progress. I embrace it, and celebrate these wins.
You catch more flies with honey than vinegar
That's not always true. Like the literal case linked, politicians dragging their feet is one of the exceptions to the rule that positive reinforcement works better than loudly stating that you're not satisfied and why you're not satisfied.
Or how about if I get your thoughts on how to rear a child
Politicians aren't children and shouldn't be coddled as if they were.
Encouragement, support, and excitement do more to inspire change than any amount of complaints.
Again, politics is an exception. A politician who is informed of a problem or the inadequacy of their solutions will perform better than one who receives praise and adulation every time they affect a tiny fraction of the positive change within their power.
Incrementalism is the only bloodless a truly feckless way to achieve true extremely limited progress
Fixed that for you. Here's what Martin Luther King thought of your Incrementalism:
Haha, I do like the study on actual flies. That's fun. I still think the analogy holds true for human behavior. I hope it should be obvious I'm not condoning never taking anyone to task when it's deserved, politician or otherwise. I think making it the core of your political movement is complete folly though.
I obviously recognize that politicians are not children. That's not how analogies work. I also think embracing celebration of wins instead of immediately scolding for not going far enough is not "coddling", either in the case of children or politicians. I think viewing it as such is part of the problem.
I disagree that MLK Jr was referring to Incrementalism explicitly there, but regardless, I'm not a big fan of pulling out political "saints" to make a point. If you think my underlying point is that we should embrace tradition and stability over all progress, I think that's an unfair assumption based on what I've written here. But do I want my country and society to improve without us all killing each other or breaking every rule that gets in the way of our view? Yeah, I think that's true for me. And I don't see anything that MLK advocated for, in ends or means, that disagreed with that notion.
So yeah, I want congress to legalize weed. Hell, I smoke daily and have bought my weed illegally in sketchy parking lots. But I'm going to celebrate this, because some good people who did nothing wrong get to celebrate Christmas at home.
Did MLK ever say something like "we're getting what we wanted but we're going to bitch about it anyway"?
Stop. This isn't coherent. The MLK quote is irrelevant and out of context. Moderate support by a human, has no parallel to a weak law. They're different concepts.
Well articulated. I've given up on this platform. Nobody wants to listen anymore. It's already failed. Just cheerleading.
"Politically impressed"? Go away.
Momentum is incremental progress towards a goal, this is that. You've said nothing convincing to a rational adult. We don't put flags on our trucks that show him riding a dinosaur with his shirt off, we don't agree with everything, but it's general progress and we accept that. We accept AND we push for more.
Grow up.
Thanks! That's pretty much my entire feelings about the DNC. I live in the most liberal county in America. Obviously I'm not satisfied with federal laws. But whining about Biden while an autocrat is on the doorstep of the WH is pathetic. Wannabe progressive losers on the Internet gaslit by Russian, Chinese and right wing propaganda. A fucking thread about releasing marijuana convictions flooded with Biden is basically the alt right. We have fought for this inch for DECADES.
Fuck off Lemmy. Your holier than thou bullshit is sad and transparent. You're thinking no more critically or analytically than on Reddit.
For what it's worth, on Lemmy you have upvotes and the people making these negative comments mostly do not.
I think most people agree with you, we're just not the ones that repeat it.
Anyway, good on you.
Thanks! It sucks bc it'd be nice to.. feel joy? So much doom scrolling, open a positive post.. comments make it shitty
I've been in jail for weed. Have you?
They don't usually send teenagers to jail for weed.
Implying poster is an ignorant little shit? (Asking in earnest)
Cool. Now stop allowing companies with federal contracts to do drug testing for cannabis unless they also test for alcohol.
Also stop requiring marijuana be tested for security clearances for your own employees.
You had me at stop testing for cannabis.
I get what you're saying, but if you are, for instance, a heavy machinery operator, it is worth making sure you are not using substances that could potentially impair your judgment. Those people usually are tested for alcohol, which is why I find it acceptable.
I think the primary difference here is that Marijuana tests detect thc going back months and months while alcohol is a much shorter duration. When those people are tested for alcohol, is that to stop them from being actually drunk on the job or to actually forbid them from drinking at any point while they're employed?
That is true and it is a problem. As I said to @aelwero, I wonder if there is a way to test whether or not you've used it recently enough to impair your ability to operate heavy machinery? I am a heavy user of cannabis myself because I use it to treat a nerve condition and I would never operate heavy machinery or drive a car while under the influence, but plenty of people are happy to drive a car while high, so I'm sure plenty of people will be happy to work that metal press while high. I don't know what the answer here is.
A better test. Before the breathalyzer a suspected drunk would have to get a urine test at the police station, or a blood test in an ED. Whoever cracks the THC test will be rich.
Yeah the UK police do a test that can tell if the THC in your blood is still active, it still over measures a bit but can tell the difference between someone smoking a bit the night before and having had one before work in the morning or in the lunch break.
I'm guessing that won't make it to the U.S. cops any time soon. Not when they have arrest quotas to make.
I wonder if there is a way to test whether or not you’ve used it recently enough to impair your ability to operate heavy machinery?
Blood tests would be positive during any impairment and a few hours afterwards.
In order of how long it would take to pass a given test after use, it goes blood, saliva, sweat, urine, hair.
Most workplace testing does use swabs these days. I personally haven't seen any workplace testing for a decade tbh, but I'm sure it's still out there.
They only test for alcohol after a reportable incident. Nobody cares if you drink on your own time. Source; I have been through OSHA 30 training. They do screen for MJ though, which is bullshit since it's legal in so many states now. IBEW, UA and a few other powerful trade unions are currently leaning on the feds to end the screening requirements in states where it's legal, so we may see real progress relatively sooner than people think, unless Trump wins.
IBEW, UA and a few other powerful trade unions are currently leaning on the feds to end the screening requirements in states where it’s legal
That is really great to hear. Thanks. I truly wish them luck!
This could, conceivably, be the hold up at federal level tbh. We have no current means by which we can objectively test for active impairment caused by THC...
Testing for alcohol is rare, and incident specific, because it's a measure of actual impairment. You aren't tested for alcohol to see if you've had a beer in the last 30 days, you're being tested to see if it's dangerous for you to be operating a vehicle, provide healthcare, carry a gun...
The basic principle behind alcohol testing is to determine actual impairment. The premise is that an agency is protecting others from dangers inherent in your being impaired.
The basic principle of drug testing is that the same danger from impairment is prevented by preventing impairment, but the premise is that any use is illegal. It's a "just in case" premise vs an actual matter of being presently impaired.
That fundamental difference is hugely notable in the case of DUI. How exactly do you mitigate the risk of DUI with THC? The current arguments in favor of legalization trend towards "it doesn't impair people as much", but that's a total cop out that doesn't address the issue, exactly the same way prohibition is.
We seriously need a solution to that, and I suspect it could very well be the "mystery cause" of federal legislators on the liberal side dragging their feet. They don't want to open the floodgates and make it unprosecutable to get in your car impaired, because even with an easy means to prosecute that if alcohol is the cause, it's still a huge issue... How bad will it be if it's effectively undetectable?
You want cops deciding based on how well you perform the little monkey dance? I fucking don't. I can't dance for shit perfectly sober...
That does make sense. I wonder if we can figure out a way to test if people are currently under the influence of THC rather than having possibly done it days before?
It sucks here in Indiana- if you have more than a nanogram THC in your system and you get in a serious auto accident, it counts as an OWI. I use medically, so I'm basically fucked if I ever get in a serious accident. Thankfully, I'm a good driver who has never been in more than a very low-speed fender bender when I was at fault and I wait until I'm not high anymore before I drive, but it really scares me. I refuse to drive at night unless it's a real emergency because I'm really scared of getting into a serious accident because my vision is impaired.
If you have more than a nanogram THC in your system and you get in a serious auto accident, it counts as an OWI.
That is entirely unenforceable if gets descheduled... It's questionable as is, but there's a vague implication that there's a federal violation involved despite the obvious.
How do they prosecute someone for impairment they can't prove though? There exists a shadow of a doubt, inherently... It's a complete non-starter...
It wasn't even cannabis. It was synthetic Delta-9 THC, which is legal in this state.
Honestly I've been saying this for years. I'm okay with legalization, but we don't have a test that isn't subjective to determine if someone is currently impaired. That would be a really good thing to have in place beforehand
I feel like if you have gone through with getting a prescription, at least you've shown good faith. But if you're going to shoot someone down for following through with the legal system it's kind of creating excuses to discriminate not on the basis of merit, but by imagined nonconformity, and that is really not the true point of either policy or law and order.
Just legalize marijuana at the federal level and admit the "war on drugs" is lost and was lost before it even started. That it really was yet another racist policy and the government is really really sorry for being shitty, again.
Even if they don't admit they were wrong, they can demonstrate it. Legalize mj, at a minimum (maybe let's do psychedelics next so those of us with mental health disorders can get some promising treatment some day soon). Pardon all people convicted of possession of said drugs. Set up a national program for addiction treatment. Hell while I am at it let's socialize mental healthcare. And establish UBI. I could go on...
the government is really really sorry
What gives you that impression? They aren't sorry, they're upset people said "fuck you" just like prohibition.
They're saying the government should walk it back and at least pay the lip service to that effect.
I completely understand but normalizing and downplaying this behavior is how we got where we are now.
You're just describing politics. Monied interests push Y, People say "fuck you" eventually and demand Z as a response to Y. Politicians resist, at varying degrees, until they say, "okay, we'll start to do Z".
Moneyed interests are 100% pushing for marijuana legalization, not the other way around.
Prisons are moneyed interests.
Drugs should all be legalized at the federal level, but I think the damage is already done. There is a defacto narco state from the US southern border to the southern tip of South America and it's largely been created out of US social policy. Now that "state" has actual state levels of funding, and in some cases weaponry, and it isn't a physical state so you can't exactly just go bomb it out of existence.
Americans don't have the wherewithal to address addiction as a health crisis. Just take a look outside in any American city and you'll see what I'm talking about. Addiction, poverty - half the country thinks we can just free market our way out of this, some part thinks we can just make all drugs illegal and the problem goes away. We're doomed.
Drugs should all be legalized at the federal level,
We should but it's unlikely anytime soon.
..but I think the damage is already done.
Very much so. The war on drugs has done wonders to continue the joys of Jim Crow under yet another name. Even if there was a full stop now it would be generations before those affected were back on level. Unless the government went nuts and actually approved something like reparations but that's a pipe dream.
Very much so. The war on drugs has done wonders to continue the joys of Jim Crow under yet another name.
Is it any wonder that the same people who won't end the relic of Jim Crow that is the filibuster also won't end the racist war on drugs?
They'll save that for another election.
Gramps should legalize it.
If only to take the carrot away from the libertarians.
That requires federal legislation.
Biden is bound by the Controlled Substances Act, same as anyone else.
It doesn’t require federal legislation actually. Biden could simply order the AG to deschedule marijuana which would effectively legalize it nationally.
The United States Code, under Section 811 of Title 21,[24] sets out a process by which cannabis could be administratively transferred to a less-restrictive category or removed from Controlled Substances Act regulation altogether. The Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) evaluates petitions to reschedule cannabis. However, the Controlled Substances Act gives the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), as successor agency of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, great power over rescheduling decisions.
After the DEA accepts the filing of a petition, the agency must request from the HHS Secretary "a scientific and medical evaluation, and his recommendations, as to whether such drug or other substance should be so controlled or removed as a controlled substance." The Secretary's findings on scientific and medical issues are binding on the DEA.[25] The HHS Secretary can even unilaterally legalize cannabis: "[I]f the Secretary recommends that a drug or other substance not be controlled, the Attorney General shall not control the drug or other substance." 21 U.S.C. § 811(b).
Biden could theoretically pressure the HHS secretary to do that, but that would directly be a Trumpian act of a guy who ran on "look how not-Trump I am" and just is not going to happen.
Biden will use the system, as designed, and hope the chips land his way. If they don't, and public backlash is strong, Dems can safely run on it.
We can not like how the political sausage is made, or even like that said sausage is made, and still live in the reality in which one does have to make sausage in politics.
Maybe if the world didn't catch fire right before his election, this could be a thing, but with the past four to six years I just don't see it taking anything but an act of Congress
So you admit he can do it without congress. However, you think it would make him look like Trump and so he shouldn’t do it…
That’s very strange reasoning. What exactly do you think would be the actual consequences? Over two thirds of Americans support legalization. If Biden got marijuana descheduled it would likely be an incredibly popular move.
You're having a conversation about things you want and I'm having a conversation about how reality works.
That’s a lot of condescension for someone who can’t even answer a simple question.
It's a clarification that you and I are having two different conversations.
Consider re-reading this not as an argument, but rather as a teacher explaining to you why things work out a certain way.
I don't view the conversation as quite that way (I was just stoned and enjoying where it was going), but tonally.
This has to be a bit right? The irony of being high while also trying to justify why Biden doesn’t push for legalization is just too funny.
My entire last post is about how this is not a defense of anything. This is an explanation of why things happen the way they do.
Whether or not you want to call it a defense, you are providing justifications for Biden’s lack of action. Going on to suggest that your opinion is just “how reality works” even though you’ve made factually incorrect statements is just too rich.
Cool stay mad.
You're mistaking "uninformed" for "simple".
Exactly how was my question “uninformed”?
Because you apparently have little to no idea how the US government functions despite other people explaining it to you multiple times.
Their first statement was factually incorrect and their follow up explanation was just unfounded conjecture that made no logical sense. When I pointed that out they just refused to engage.
Even without de- or re-scheduling, I think the very fact that most stoners and your average casual user of marijuana is not a hardcore criminal gives people in government a bit more to think about.
If they were to allow the DEA and police to apply discretion on an individual basis, rather than simply seek to create punishment for the sake of tax dollars, you'd see our better angels shine through.
Even if you worked for the DEA, day in day out with a MDF board with pins and string lines of whose who, bank statements, phone tracking, GPS car trackers like in NCIS, and had to hunt some evil ass people/drug traffickers, terrorists and spies everyday, your average stoner guy isn't big fish to fry.
Hell if anything, for the average guy on the street or even just a news reporter, it's probably a joke of a case to be thrown out along with the lead investigators.
If you really wanted to find criminals just go to East Europe or the middle east and pretend to be a photographer or reporter, you'll probably not manage to arrest a single person, and maybe even die, but you'll sure as hell learn more about how the CIA and others in power keep accidentally creating war zones, and why both USA and China has so far done a good job to avoid getting involved in the Israel Gaza conflict.
be creative. play the damn game like the republicans. simply put out an executive order saying 'why would you arrest anyone for weed in this day and age'. no one with true power and will is bound by a piece of paper. the republicans aren't; the democrats should consider doing the same with saner policies
The federal government is already doing this, and has been doing it since the first state legalized it. The FBI could theoretically raid any weed dealer at any time, but they've been directed to not exercise that power since Eric Holder first enacted the policy.
This fact always amuses me. I live in a small to moderate sized town in a medical-only state, and I have FIVE dispensaries to choose from within about 10 minutes from my house. Two of them are the same chain!
There are serious resources invested that could be jeopardized if the government went crazy. Uh, more crazy.
Merry Christmas!
I think there's an election soon.
Biden, the president doing a good thing.
Shaka, when the walls fell.
Why did he wait until an upcoming election to do it?
Biden has passed a lot of good policy: Inflation Reduction Act, CHIPS Act, Respect for Marriage Act, American Rescue Plan, Student Debt Relief, and more. He has also put fair judges on the bench and one of the supreme court--Trump and republicans put judges to take away rights from women and workers.
Look, I wish Biden were more progressive and I don't support everything he's done. If Republicans get control of the government, they plan to move us to a Christian Nation with all the power focused on their president. I just hope everyone votes these Republicans out of office before they make America "Great" Again.
Would you rather he didn't do it?
No one was freed from prison under last year’s action, no federal prisoners are eligible for release as a result of Friday’s pardon. But the order expands the grounds on which pardons are issued, which they can use to build the groundwork for a fundement to layer the different levels that they can then use as a foundation to build upon. However this might take some time. In the meantime please be patient.
I hate the emphasis of "simple possession charges", like there aren't situations where someone gets charged with multiple misdemeanors or other petty crimes while carrying an 8th. When Minnesota legalized this year they went the route of "simple possession" for pardons and exoneration, only about 3 people had their sentences ended. To me that indicates they're afraid of being labeled "weak on crime" instead of doing the right thing.
People need to learn "tough on crime" and "law and order" are dog whistles for "oppress minorities"
A lot of people already know, and that's exactly why they support it.
Word. It's a way for people who aren't outwardly "flag on a truck" racists to indulge their racism safely and quietly without confronting its existence directly.
If you commit another crime while possessing, you'll be charged with said crime and possession.
You should still be cleared of the possesion charge, while staying locked up for whatever else you might have done.
What if you get nailed for possession then they find a bunch of other shit to charge you with. I assume that happens anyway. If weed was the basis of probable cause, throw out the conviction for the other stuff.
Yeah. Fruit of the poison... uh... tree.
Hell even that would be an improvement. I just don't think prisons fit anywhere in the rehabilitation of prisoners and would rather see all nonviolent offenders released.
Ok I can agree on principle but in practice you unfortunately need to have alternative systems in place first to deal with the realities of the problem.
Take the guy I used to work with who went to prison for scamming old ladies out of money, if we don't have mechanisms to deal with people like him then it won't take long before everyone is demanding we bring back prisons
I could be wrong, but I think it's possible for situations to exist where the other thing only becomes a crime because of the possession. Maybe something like being charged for carrying a gun during the commission of a crime, where the crime being committed was having marijuana.
Wish we could get this over with and just legalize it. The attitudes with it have changed. The majority want it treated like alcohol.
Modern elections (any really) aren't about the majority, they are about suburban housewives in Ohio and Pennsylvania as the only group that still morally blows in the wind on the rational adult versus fascism spectrum.
They are the people that can't immediately accept sweeping change and react violently to "just legalize it". They fundamentally don't care about legal weed on balance, but they need baby step progress to stay comfortable enough to keep a firm foot on the rational adult side of that discussed spectrum.
It's not fair, but it is objective reality.
That bit about suburban housewives is not correct. Swing voters are more likely to be young and male, and there isn't much distinction between rural/suburban/urban.
In swing states where our democracy is decided due to the broken US electoral college system and gerrymandering, they are the ones that candidates market towards most aggressively.
I feel like impairment should be based on eye movement, motor movement, reaction time and focus, like how quickly you can readjust a knob to 1.1v after while someone's eating chips or blasting a siren next to you. If your getting it done in under 1 minute your fine, but if you take over one minute to do it you may or may not be stoned as fuck, but your definitely incapacitated in some form.
This is a good second step. The first was asking the DEA to look into rescheduling.
But it is nothing more than the second step. The third step would probably be to pass the SAFE Banking act. And we should not let up pressure until full recreational legalization is a reality in all states.
Democrats will happily let this be the end of reforms if we let them.
Federal legalization/rescheduling is the only option. States that do not want legal recreational marijuana will keep it illegal and keep their cash cows fed.
It would take a Supreme Court ruling to force full marijuana legalization across the US and there is zero chance of that.
I didn't put a deadline on letting up pressure. Republicans eventually got what they wanted on Roe via the Supreme Court by not letting up pressure. There is no good reason we can't do the same.
There's a number of bad reasons, though. Principal among them is that centrists don't want to disrupt the status quo, even if it means preserving racist policies like the war on drugs.
President Joe Biden pardoned thousands of people who were convicted of use and simple possession of marijuana on federal lands and in the District of Columbia
So that pardons people who were convicted of using or possessing while located in one of the red areas here?
Aside from D.C. itself, that's what, Land under the control of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Department of Defense, Fish and Wildlife Service, National Park Service, Tennessee Valley Authority, and a few others?
I guess, in the words of Angie Martinelli "That's not nothin!".
Hopefully this reaches the right ears and starts more change:
Biden on Friday reiterated his call on governors and local leaders to take similar steps to erase marijuana convictions.
The number of people we have in prison for this is bonkers and the fact that it makes life as a productive member of society much more difficult is absolutely ridiculous.
I was disqualified from a job offer recently because I was honest and told them I took a gel capsule containing THC and CBD for sleep. I took it over 5 months ago and purchased it from the cannabis shop down the street. I put several months of maximum effort to land that job. I feel stupid for being honest with them in hindsight. It's ridiculous. Cannabis is legal in my state.
Things that should have been done day one of things that never should have happened.
I agree it never should have happened but unfortunately that's the nature of fixing the mistakes of the past
The mistakes happen quickly and fixing them is done as slowly as possible.
The mistakes happen quickly and fixing them is usually an uphill battle
Anything looks uphill if you lean far enough.
Political change for the betterment of people is always a struggle due to the amount of people who are adamant that things are fine the way they are
I wish it were easier but unfortunately that's the reality we live in, there's a lot of people out there who want others to suffer
Political change for the betterment of people is always a struggle due to the amount of people who are adamant that things are fine the way they are
Accepting that guarantees it will never happen.
How so?
If stagnation is acceptable, why would any politician bother with progress? Progress is work.
There the Democrats go again not doing anything!
The demographic is changed on Lemmy. You need /s now.
Not everyone accepts half measures as complete solutions.
Not everyone who appreciates progress is accepting anything as a complete solution. I fit your criteria. You don't fit mine. My opinion is you have a detrimental attitude and equivocating any minor win to total loss diminishes the value of a win and kills morale and momentum for more wins.
Inertia. Winning begets winning and losing begets losing.
equivocating any minor win to total loss diminishes the value of a win
Treating minor steps as major wins leads me to consider minor wins as token gestures designed to placate with as little change as possible. Followup will only follow if continued pressure is applied.
If enough people are satisfied, the party has no reason to continue trying.
Per my other comment, I never called it a total win. But fwiw, if I'm going to defend the win here, not just my disappointment with sentiment in general on here.. this isn't minor. I'd call it major. Do you have any idea how many lives have been ruined by policies that are being rolled back? While you're intellectualizing the other victims of the states whose rights continue to be infringed upon, have you considered the experience of a single person that will get out? Or their families?
Have you had first hand experience with the legal system? For weed? Have you been locked up? Have you spent a day without the right to decide when you want a glass of water or breath of fresh air.
These are people. Not statistics. Not liberal arts theses.
You're not seeing the forest for the trees.
And my editorial and feelings about that, and this forum: that is cold and uncaring. This post was about human beings being liberated from unfair persecution. People instead are choosing to use it as a soapbox to regurgitate to the choir that there are also other problems. No shit Sherlock. That's why we're all on here, a common set of those beliefs. That has nothing to do with whether we celebrate the freedom of our incarcerated brothers and sisters. So yeah, this place is starting to suck. And if you can't see where I'm coming from and acknowledge it without being defensive or doubling down and shouting through me, you're part of the problem and never going to see it.
I’d call it major
That's no surprise.
Do you have any idea how many lives have been ruined by policies that are being rolled back?
No policy is being rolled back here. All this does is pardon a fraction of existing simple possession convictions. The policies are still in place and are still enforceable. New convictions will happen.
Have you had first hand experience with the legal system? For weed? Have you been locked up? Have you spent a day without the right to decide when you want a glass of water or breath of fresh air.
Not for weed, but yes.
These are people. Not statistics. Not liberal arts theses.
And as long as the racist war on drugs carries on, there will be more casualties, each one an unconscionable tragedy. I want that to stop forever, everywhere. I know that letting up pressure will delay that, at best, and that every delay is more casualties. More lives ruined, more families destroyed, more communities disrupted.
The batter bunted and is strolling triumphantly towards first, waving his cap at the crowd. Run, damn you.
More than one thing can be true at once.
Why did they wait until an upcoming election to do it?
A small step but hopefully a step towards legalisation.
This is Soros-funded Alinsky-style tactics to bring about the Marxist state!!!!1111ELEVENTYONE111 -wingers, probably.
Great! But let’s also pardon sellers. it was illegal to buy and sell, but only buyers get pardoned? pardon buyers and sellers, and let sellers open up their own pot shops. or, are we not a meritocracy? (obviously we are not and this is a great first step but it isn’t all sunshine and rainbows). You’re all going to vote Biden anyway because not doing so means you voted for trump. y’all are smarter than that.
Yes, in a bureaucracy, it's CYA all the way down. You pardon possession, then you point to that as precedent to say, "small amount sellers are basically the same, let's pardon them" a while later. It isn't ideal, but it's objective reality. If you have a better way, organize people to change the broader system (and voters) to be more nimble.
As long as we actually do pardon sellers in the future. I hate incrementalism but yeah, what can we do without a larger majority?
Go back in time a bit and see that earlier incremental step that Biden took on weed, you'll probably fine the exact same comment about "If we actually do the next step" - and now here we are.
He needs to do more, but he's doing enough on most things and the alternative is a black hole
Go back in time a bit and see that earlier incremental step that Biden took on weed, you’ll probably fine the exact same comment about “If we actually do the next step” - and now here we are.
We need to keep the pressure on. If we were satisfied with "Ugh, fine! We'll look into it if it'll shut you up," we wouldn't be here.
Nobody said anything about taking pressure off. The point is to take a clear moment to accept and acknowledge progress, and then keep pushing for more.
This is not that tone, this is more about people shitting on not getting the entire cake while they are eating a slice of it. You can want the whole cake, but if you miserably eat it slice by slice without enjoying each, before you know it you've eaten the whole cake you've wanted, never enjoying it, and the only thing you have to show for it is a stomach ache and a vague feeling that you never got what you wanted (when again, that whole cake is in your gut at that point).
This is the best summary I could come up with:
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden is pardoning thousands of people who were convicted of use and simple possession of marijuana on federal lands and in the District of Columbia, the White House said Friday, in his latest round of executive clemencies meant to rectify racial disparities in the justice system.
Biden is also granting clemency to 11 people serving what the White House called “disproportionately long” sentences for nonviolent drug offenses.
Biden said his actions would help make the “promise of equal justice a reality.”
“Criminal records for marijuana use and possession have imposed needless barriers to employment, housing, and educational opportunities,” Biden said.
The White House said thousands more would be eligible under Friday’s action.
Biden reiterated his call on governors and local leaders to take similar steps to erase marijuana convictions.
The original article contains 220 words, the summary contains 134 words. Saved 39%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
It's about time. Now it's time to reschedule
I hate it when people say Washington and they mean District of Columbia as a resident of the state... at least say Washington DC in the title for fucks sake
Why did he wait until an upcoming election?
It’s easy to see this kind of behavior as bad on the surface, but isn’t “enact policies that make people want to vote for you” pretty much the job description of a politician?
these demopublicans will throw any rotting scraps to the masses and ate it gets
all this fucker is doing is getting votes by saying keywords over and over same as the other demopublicans
all we have ever done is throw this issue around like climate change and human rights
2024 same shit all over again as every other election since who knows how far back
want to know who will win? certainly not the citizens
what good thing? who does this help?
just a few people but enough for everyone to go yay biden
him and harris both have been part of the fuel keeping the current drug war active this is just some preelection scraps he throwing around to get votes without accomplishing anything
as usual this will leave a lot of people screwed and dependent on the geographic lottery for rights hope you are born in a good state otherwise its your fault and you should go vote
It's called federalism. It provides everyone the most freedom and follows both republican thinking in small government, less bureaucratic paperwork for the top, and more democratic policy making.
eg. if you live in a state where there's a huge meth problem, but no marijuana problem it doesn't make sense to be telling cops to keep chasing the one stoner in town or to go after some asian guy who just looks suspicious for wearing sunglasses.
Allowing for state by state discretion also means that the DEA and local police can be free to collect more targeted and detailed information to hunt who is producing more suffering.
Lemmy sucks. You're whiney fucks. Enjoy the win. Both sides are not the same. This is an unfathomable event previously. Anyone remember Jeff Sessions first months in office? Stop bitching and show some fucking gratitude. Thousands of people are being pardoned. Is it perfect and everything we want? No. Does that take away from the achievement? No.
Purity tests all the way down and it's why populism never actually works. You can't be happy, even a little bit, about incremental progress if the "real problem" hasn't been dealt with. That problem will always be broad and impossible to truly achieve outside of theory. You end up with an ideology just centered around anger and despair.
People who do this shit maintain positions they know are practically unworkable because the thing they fear most is actually having to govern and make difficult choices in the real world and then answer for the consequences of those decisions. It's much easier to just loudly state a preference for fantasy.
It just rings extremely hollow after he spent the last three years shoveling money at state police departments that are going to keep on harassing and brutalizing people by the tens of thousands for marijuana possession, not to mention the fact that he could reschedule and effectively legalize marijuana on a federal level but chooses not to do so
More generally speaking, you just can't be surprised that people are skeptical of Biden when his supporters constantly ignore context and straight up lie to pretend that he's someone he's not
As opposed to fucking what? Trump? Because more and worse Trump is what you'd get if you didn't have Biden.
He's not perfect. But he's managed to keep this crumbling nation together for at least a few more years. Every single option on the Republican side is a nightmare compared to Biden. If the Democrats can come up with someone better than Biden who can also defeat the Republican nominee, great, let's do it. Until then, we should all remember that there's a huge fucking cliff from where we are now vs where we'd be without Biden.
Don't get complacent. Don't take it for granted.
The lesser of two evils is still fucking evil.
IA! Fthagn!
No he can’t. He can direct the DEA to look into rescheduling the drug, a process he has already started. But he doesn’t have the authority to unilaterally force them to reschedule it. He could theoretically Saturday Night Massacre the DEA into doing it, but they really wouldn’t be a good look.
"Lemmy sucks."
You are top comment. I always hated this "reddit sucks" attitude that everyone always adopted, especially when taking the most common and popular opinions on the platform.
Hahahahahaahhahahhaa I rarely go back to see votes and shit.. I've yet to ever have a highly voted comment here. Only bc your reply did I catch this. Phenomenal it's this comment
Like all the people bitching about the reddit hivemind just because they have an opinion that isn't literally dominant.
Hivemind was always the wrong word anyway. It's more of a mob mentality than anything organized and productive like a hive.
There are a lot of right wing Poe's law trolls here pretending to be leftists, and a handful of people who get caught up in their privileged contrarian virtue. It's shocking to me that this isn't extremely obvious to more people here.
I think there's also a lot of far left people here accusing left people to be right wing.
For sure. Actual leftists often criticize the Dems, because the Dems aren't leftist. They are mostly just centrists and they are in bed with Corporate America. That being said, I don't understand why some people have to criticize every little thing. I have been pretty critical of the Democratic party, myself, as a self identifying Socialist (begrudgingly still vote for them, because the other 1 option is way worse). These pardons are a good thing, though, and I don't see what the problem is for some people.
Some extreme leftists just turn into such contrarians that they end up sounding the same as right wing fear mongerers. It's like the political spectrum is a circle, with both of the left and right ends meeting up in a bubble of authoritarianism and hate.
Same ideals here
I think the problem is that there's a very real sense that the party will make the first step the only step if we let them.
100%. Look at all the cities that rolled back progress on changes made to their police departments from the BLM movement as soon as they could.
It will be if the left criticizes biden for not doing more while at the same time praising hamas as a resistance force
It will be if we stop applying pressure while at the same time mindlessly supporting genocide for its own sake.
A zillion percent. So much so I blocked a ton of keywords of political posts showing up for me here Then I ate a bunch of edibles and wrote an essay about my feelings on the matter.
I think there's a lot of centrists who scream that all criticism from their left comes from all the way to their right in order to dismiss it.
Well observed. Def feels like that is what's been ramping up lately
I'm sorry you're forced to be here.
It didn't suck when I chose to come here.
And it still doesn't. Not everyone has to fake an orgasm over every incrementalist baby step just because you want them to.
Your comment is what sucks: I'm asking "Why does everyone treat a base hit, the same as a game losing strikeout?" You're accusing me of saying "Why aren't you assholes celebrating this base hit like a grand slam?!" Please take a second to think about this without taking it personally. If the analogy is off let me know how so and I'll try again.
Ok. If you wanna do baseball analogies, let's. Democrats have a tendency to hit the showers without finishing the game as soon as they hit a single. No amount of rejoicing over the single is gonna get them to the world series.
Hahahaahahha well done. I'm tearing up laughing at how real that is. Once more, I don't disagree with you. Doesn't change the fact Lemmy has a shitty attitude and no joy. I have gratitude for this order by Biden. None of the dialogue on this post and this action, is about the legitimate positive impact of the change in policy stance.
Personally, I think people who generalize and complain about Lemmy or Reddit as if they're some sort of monoliths or "hiveminds" are the ones with the shitty attitude.
There is no joy in Mudville.
That was one of the first books I ever owned. Major lasting impression for some reason.
Are you old enough to remember Billy Crystal talking about baseball stats on a horse, in theaters?
I don't think you can blame people for being sick of the negativity. It's everywhere these days. You can't get away from it. You'd be forgiven for thinking that this smallish move on Biden's part would be greeted with indifference rather than outright boos, but no, nothing is ever good enough, this is the world we live in.
No. The political racketeers that caused this problem tacitly admitting that they've destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives for no reason at all is in no way or shape any kind of "win."
When they start paying reparations to all the people they've victimized through these self-serving laws throughout the decades, then we can start talking about "wins."
are you genuinely politically impressed by this
at least our complaints are encouraging momentum rather than dusting off our hands and doing a smithers esque very good sir! because he pardoned people with fake charges that should've never existed that he and his VP gleefully enforced and implicitly defended for years and years
I completely disagree that your complaints spur a single thing. Every heard the phrase "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar"? Or how about if I get your thoughts on how to rear a child? Do you beat them, complain about their accomplishments constantly, or do you encourage and support them? Encouragement, support, and excitement do more to inspire change than any amount of complaints.
Incrementalism is the only bloodless way to achieve true progress. I embrace it, and celebrate these wins.
That's not always true. Like the literal case linked, politicians dragging their feet is one of the exceptions to the rule that positive reinforcement works better than loudly stating that you're not satisfied and why you're not satisfied.
Politicians aren't children and shouldn't be coddled as if they were.
Again, politics is an exception. A politician who is informed of a problem or the inadequacy of their solutions will perform better than one who receives praise and adulation every time they affect a tiny fraction of the positive change within their power.
Fixed that for you. Here's what Martin Luther King thought of your Incrementalism:
Haha, I do like the study on actual flies. That's fun. I still think the analogy holds true for human behavior. I hope it should be obvious I'm not condoning never taking anyone to task when it's deserved, politician or otherwise. I think making it the core of your political movement is complete folly though.
I obviously recognize that politicians are not children. That's not how analogies work. I also think embracing celebration of wins instead of immediately scolding for not going far enough is not "coddling", either in the case of children or politicians. I think viewing it as such is part of the problem.
I disagree that MLK Jr was referring to Incrementalism explicitly there, but regardless, I'm not a big fan of pulling out political "saints" to make a point. If you think my underlying point is that we should embrace tradition and stability over all progress, I think that's an unfair assumption based on what I've written here. But do I want my country and society to improve without us all killing each other or breaking every rule that gets in the way of our view? Yeah, I think that's true for me. And I don't see anything that MLK advocated for, in ends or means, that disagreed with that notion.
So yeah, I want congress to legalize weed. Hell, I smoke daily and have bought my weed illegally in sketchy parking lots. But I'm going to celebrate this, because some good people who did nothing wrong get to celebrate Christmas at home.
Did MLK ever say something like "we're getting what we wanted but we're going to bitch about it anyway"?
Stop. This isn't coherent. The MLK quote is irrelevant and out of context. Moderate support by a human, has no parallel to a weak law. They're different concepts.
Well articulated. I've given up on this platform. Nobody wants to listen anymore. It's already failed. Just cheerleading.
"Politically impressed"? Go away.
Momentum is incremental progress towards a goal, this is that. You've said nothing convincing to a rational adult. We don't put flags on our trucks that show him riding a dinosaur with his shirt off, we don't agree with everything, but it's general progress and we accept that. We accept AND we push for more.
Grow up.
Thanks! That's pretty much my entire feelings about the DNC. I live in the most liberal county in America. Obviously I'm not satisfied with federal laws. But whining about Biden while an autocrat is on the doorstep of the WH is pathetic. Wannabe progressive losers on the Internet gaslit by Russian, Chinese and right wing propaganda. A fucking thread about releasing marijuana convictions flooded with Biden is basically the alt right. We have fought for this inch for DECADES.
Fuck off Lemmy. Your holier than thou bullshit is sad and transparent. You're thinking no more critically or analytically than on Reddit.
For what it's worth, on Lemmy you have upvotes and the people making these negative comments mostly do not.
I think most people agree with you, we're just not the ones that repeat it.
Anyway, good on you.
Thanks! It sucks bc it'd be nice to.. feel joy? So much doom scrolling, open a positive post.. comments make it shitty
I've been in jail for weed. Have you?
They don't usually send teenagers to jail for weed.
Implying poster is an ignorant little shit? (Asking in earnest)
Could be a teen themselves, lol
I asked nicely by asking without asking ;)
Cringe
Cool. Now stop allowing companies with federal contracts to do drug testing for cannabis unless they also test for alcohol.
Also stop requiring marijuana be tested for security clearances for your own employees.
You had me at stop testing for cannabis.
I get what you're saying, but if you are, for instance, a heavy machinery operator, it is worth making sure you are not using substances that could potentially impair your judgment. Those people usually are tested for alcohol, which is why I find it acceptable.
I think the primary difference here is that Marijuana tests detect thc going back months and months while alcohol is a much shorter duration. When those people are tested for alcohol, is that to stop them from being actually drunk on the job or to actually forbid them from drinking at any point while they're employed?
That is true and it is a problem. As I said to @aelwero, I wonder if there is a way to test whether or not you've used it recently enough to impair your ability to operate heavy machinery? I am a heavy user of cannabis myself because I use it to treat a nerve condition and I would never operate heavy machinery or drive a car while under the influence, but plenty of people are happy to drive a car while high, so I'm sure plenty of people will be happy to work that metal press while high. I don't know what the answer here is.
A better test. Before the breathalyzer a suspected drunk would have to get a urine test at the police station, or a blood test in an ED. Whoever cracks the THC test will be rich.
Yeah the UK police do a test that can tell if the THC in your blood is still active, it still over measures a bit but can tell the difference between someone smoking a bit the night before and having had one before work in the morning or in the lunch break.
I'm guessing that won't make it to the U.S. cops any time soon. Not when they have arrest quotas to make.
Blood tests would be positive during any impairment and a few hours afterwards.
In order of how long it would take to pass a given test after use, it goes blood, saliva, sweat, urine, hair.
Most workplace testing does use swabs these days. I personally haven't seen any workplace testing for a decade tbh, but I'm sure it's still out there.
They only test for alcohol after a reportable incident. Nobody cares if you drink on your own time. Source; I have been through OSHA 30 training. They do screen for MJ though, which is bullshit since it's legal in so many states now. IBEW, UA and a few other powerful trade unions are currently leaning on the feds to end the screening requirements in states where it's legal, so we may see real progress relatively sooner than people think, unless Trump wins.
That is really great to hear. Thanks. I truly wish them luck!
This could, conceivably, be the hold up at federal level tbh. We have no current means by which we can objectively test for active impairment caused by THC...
Testing for alcohol is rare, and incident specific, because it's a measure of actual impairment. You aren't tested for alcohol to see if you've had a beer in the last 30 days, you're being tested to see if it's dangerous for you to be operating a vehicle, provide healthcare, carry a gun...
The basic principle behind alcohol testing is to determine actual impairment. The premise is that an agency is protecting others from dangers inherent in your being impaired.
The basic principle of drug testing is that the same danger from impairment is prevented by preventing impairment, but the premise is that any use is illegal. It's a "just in case" premise vs an actual matter of being presently impaired.
That fundamental difference is hugely notable in the case of DUI. How exactly do you mitigate the risk of DUI with THC? The current arguments in favor of legalization trend towards "it doesn't impair people as much", but that's a total cop out that doesn't address the issue, exactly the same way prohibition is.
We seriously need a solution to that, and I suspect it could very well be the "mystery cause" of federal legislators on the liberal side dragging their feet. They don't want to open the floodgates and make it unprosecutable to get in your car impaired, because even with an easy means to prosecute that if alcohol is the cause, it's still a huge issue... How bad will it be if it's effectively undetectable?
You want cops deciding based on how well you perform the little monkey dance? I fucking don't. I can't dance for shit perfectly sober...
That does make sense. I wonder if we can figure out a way to test if people are currently under the influence of THC rather than having possibly done it days before?
It sucks here in Indiana- if you have more than a nanogram THC in your system and you get in a serious auto accident, it counts as an OWI. I use medically, so I'm basically fucked if I ever get in a serious accident. Thankfully, I'm a good driver who has never been in more than a very low-speed fender bender when I was at fault and I wait until I'm not high anymore before I drive, but it really scares me. I refuse to drive at night unless it's a real emergency because I'm really scared of getting into a serious accident because my vision is impaired.
That is entirely unenforceable if gets descheduled... It's questionable as is, but there's a vague implication that there's a federal violation involved despite the obvious.
How do they prosecute someone for impairment they can't prove though? There exists a shadow of a doubt, inherently... It's a complete non-starter...
It's already been done.
https://www.wane.com/top-stories/courts-driver-charged-with-being-on-thc-in-southwest-crash-that-killed-73-year-old/
It wasn't even cannabis. It was synthetic Delta-9 THC, which is legal in this state.
Honestly I've been saying this for years. I'm okay with legalization, but we don't have a test that isn't subjective to determine if someone is currently impaired. That would be a really good thing to have in place beforehand
I feel like if you have gone through with getting a prescription, at least you've shown good faith. But if you're going to shoot someone down for following through with the legal system it's kind of creating excuses to discriminate not on the basis of merit, but by imagined nonconformity, and that is really not the true point of either policy or law and order.
Just legalize marijuana at the federal level and admit the "war on drugs" is lost and was lost before it even started. That it really was yet another racist policy and the government is really really sorry for being shitty, again.
Even if they don't admit they were wrong, they can demonstrate it. Legalize mj, at a minimum (maybe let's do psychedelics next so those of us with mental health disorders can get some promising treatment some day soon). Pardon all people convicted of possession of said drugs. Set up a national program for addiction treatment. Hell while I am at it let's socialize mental healthcare. And establish UBI. I could go on...
What gives you that impression? They aren't sorry, they're upset people said "fuck you" just like prohibition.
They're saying the government should walk it back and at least pay the lip service to that effect.
I completely understand but normalizing and downplaying this behavior is how we got where we are now.
You're just describing politics. Monied interests push Y, People say "fuck you" eventually and demand Z as a response to Y. Politicians resist, at varying degrees, until they say, "okay, we'll start to do Z".
Moneyed interests are 100% pushing for marijuana legalization, not the other way around.
Prisons are moneyed interests.
Drugs should all be legalized at the federal level, but I think the damage is already done. There is a defacto narco state from the US southern border to the southern tip of South America and it's largely been created out of US social policy. Now that "state" has actual state levels of funding, and in some cases weaponry, and it isn't a physical state so you can't exactly just go bomb it out of existence.
Americans don't have the wherewithal to address addiction as a health crisis. Just take a look outside in any American city and you'll see what I'm talking about. Addiction, poverty - half the country thinks we can just free market our way out of this, some part thinks we can just make all drugs illegal and the problem goes away. We're doomed.
We should but it's unlikely anytime soon.
Very much so. The war on drugs has done wonders to continue the joys of Jim Crow under yet another name. Even if there was a full stop now it would be generations before those affected were back on level. Unless the government went nuts and actually approved something like reparations but that's a pipe dream.
Is it any wonder that the same people who won't end the relic of Jim Crow that is the filibuster also won't end the racist war on drugs?
They'll save that for another election.
Gramps should legalize it.
If only to take the carrot away from the libertarians.
That requires federal legislation.
Biden is bound by the Controlled Substances Act, same as anyone else.
https://www.dea.gov/drug-information/csa
It doesn’t require federal legislation actually. Biden could simply order the AG to deschedule marijuana which would effectively legalize it nationally.
Biden could theoretically pressure the HHS secretary to do that, but that would directly be a Trumpian act of a guy who ran on "look how not-Trump I am" and just is not going to happen.
Biden will use the system, as designed, and hope the chips land his way. If they don't, and public backlash is strong, Dems can safely run on it.
We can not like how the political sausage is made, or even like that said sausage is made, and still live in the reality in which one does have to make sausage in politics.
Maybe if the world didn't catch fire right before his election, this could be a thing, but with the past four to six years I just don't see it taking anything but an act of Congress
So you admit he can do it without congress. However, you think it would make him look like Trump and so he shouldn’t do it…
That’s very strange reasoning. What exactly do you think would be the actual consequences? Over two thirds of Americans support legalization. If Biden got marijuana descheduled it would likely be an incredibly popular move.
You're having a conversation about things you want and I'm having a conversation about how reality works.
That’s a lot of condescension for someone who can’t even answer a simple question.
It's a clarification that you and I are having two different conversations.
Consider re-reading this not as an argument, but rather as a teacher explaining to you why things work out a certain way.
I don't view the conversation as quite that way (I was just stoned and enjoying where it was going), but tonally.
This has to be a bit right? The irony of being high while also trying to justify why Biden doesn’t push for legalization is just too funny.
My entire last post is about how this is not a defense of anything. This is an explanation of why things happen the way they do.
Whether or not you want to call it a defense, you are providing justifications for Biden’s lack of action. Going on to suggest that your opinion is just “how reality works” even though you’ve made factually incorrect statements is just too rich.
Cool stay mad.
You're mistaking "uninformed" for "simple".
Exactly how was my question “uninformed”?
Because you apparently have little to no idea how the US government functions despite other people explaining it to you multiple times.
Their first statement was factually incorrect and their follow up explanation was just unfounded conjecture that made no logical sense. When I pointed that out they just refused to engage.
Even without de- or re-scheduling, I think the very fact that most stoners and your average casual user of marijuana is not a hardcore criminal gives people in government a bit more to think about.
If they were to allow the DEA and police to apply discretion on an individual basis, rather than simply seek to create punishment for the sake of tax dollars, you'd see our better angels shine through.
Even if you worked for the DEA, day in day out with a MDF board with pins and string lines of whose who, bank statements, phone tracking, GPS car trackers like in NCIS, and had to hunt some evil ass people/drug traffickers, terrorists and spies everyday, your average stoner guy isn't big fish to fry.
Hell if anything, for the average guy on the street or even just a news reporter, it's probably a joke of a case to be thrown out along with the lead investigators.
If you really wanted to find criminals just go to East Europe or the middle east and pretend to be a photographer or reporter, you'll probably not manage to arrest a single person, and maybe even die, but you'll sure as hell learn more about how the CIA and others in power keep accidentally creating war zones, and why both USA and China has so far done a good job to avoid getting involved in the Israel Gaza conflict.
be creative. play the damn game like the republicans. simply put out an executive order saying 'why would you arrest anyone for weed in this day and age'. no one with true power and will is bound by a piece of paper. the republicans aren't; the democrats should consider doing the same with saner policies
The federal government is already doing this, and has been doing it since the first state legalized it. The FBI could theoretically raid any weed dealer at any time, but they've been directed to not exercise that power since Eric Holder first enacted the policy.
https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/dea-position-marijuana
This fact always amuses me. I live in a small to moderate sized town in a medical-only state, and I have FIVE dispensaries to choose from within about 10 minutes from my house. Two of them are the same chain!
There are serious resources invested that could be jeopardized if the government went crazy. Uh, more crazy.
Merry Christmas!
I think there's an election soon.
Biden, the president doing a good thing.
Shaka, when the walls fell.
Why did he wait until an upcoming election to do it?
Biden has passed a lot of good policy: Inflation Reduction Act, CHIPS Act, Respect for Marriage Act, American Rescue Plan, Student Debt Relief, and more. He has also put fair judges on the bench and one of the supreme court--Trump and republicans put judges to take away rights from women and workers.
Look, I wish Biden were more progressive and I don't support everything he's done. If Republicans get control of the government, they plan to move us to a Christian Nation with all the power focused on their president. I just hope everyone votes these Republicans out of office before they make America "Great" Again.
Would you rather he didn't do it?
No one was freed from prison under last year’s action, no federal prisoners are eligible for release as a result of Friday’s pardon. But the order expands the grounds on which pardons are issued, which they can use to build the groundwork for a fundement to layer the different levels that they can then use as a foundation to build upon. However this might take some time. In the meantime please be patient.
I hate the emphasis of "simple possession charges", like there aren't situations where someone gets charged with multiple misdemeanors or other petty crimes while carrying an 8th. When Minnesota legalized this year they went the route of "simple possession" for pardons and exoneration, only about 3 people had their sentences ended. To me that indicates they're afraid of being labeled "weak on crime" instead of doing the right thing.
People need to learn "tough on crime" and "law and order" are dog whistles for "oppress minorities"
A lot of people already know, and that's exactly why they support it.
Word. It's a way for people who aren't outwardly "flag on a truck" racists to indulge their racism safely and quietly without confronting its existence directly.
If you commit another crime while possessing, you'll be charged with said crime and possession.
You should still be cleared of the possesion charge, while staying locked up for whatever else you might have done.
What if you get nailed for possession then they find a bunch of other shit to charge you with. I assume that happens anyway. If weed was the basis of probable cause, throw out the conviction for the other stuff.
Yeah. Fruit of the poison... uh... tree.
Hell even that would be an improvement. I just don't think prisons fit anywhere in the rehabilitation of prisoners and would rather see all nonviolent offenders released.
Ok I can agree on principle but in practice you unfortunately need to have alternative systems in place first to deal with the realities of the problem.
Take the guy I used to work with who went to prison for scamming old ladies out of money, if we don't have mechanisms to deal with people like him then it won't take long before everyone is demanding we bring back prisons
I could be wrong, but I think it's possible for situations to exist where the other thing only becomes a crime because of the possession. Maybe something like being charged for carrying a gun during the commission of a crime, where the crime being committed was having marijuana.
Wish we could get this over with and just legalize it. The attitudes with it have changed. The majority want it treated like alcohol.
Modern elections (any really) aren't about the majority, they are about suburban housewives in Ohio and Pennsylvania as the only group that still morally blows in the wind on the rational adult versus fascism spectrum.
They are the people that can't immediately accept sweeping change and react violently to "just legalize it". They fundamentally don't care about legal weed on balance, but they need baby step progress to stay comfortable enough to keep a firm foot on the rational adult side of that discussed spectrum.
It's not fair, but it is objective reality.
That bit about suburban housewives is not correct. Swing voters are more likely to be young and male, and there isn't much distinction between rural/suburban/urban.
https://www.kff.org/other/issue-brief/data-note-swing-voters/
In swing states where our democracy is decided due to the broken US electoral college system and gerrymandering, they are the ones that candidates market towards most aggressively.
I feel like impairment should be based on eye movement, motor movement, reaction time and focus, like how quickly you can readjust a knob to 1.1v after while someone's eating chips or blasting a siren next to you. If your getting it done in under 1 minute your fine, but if you take over one minute to do it you may or may not be stoned as fuck, but your definitely incapacitated in some form.
This is a good second step. The first was asking the DEA to look into rescheduling.
But it is nothing more than the second step. The third step would probably be to pass the SAFE Banking act. And we should not let up pressure until full recreational legalization is a reality in all states.
Democrats will happily let this be the end of reforms if we let them.
Federal legalization/rescheduling is the only option. States that do not want legal recreational marijuana will keep it illegal and keep their cash cows fed.
It would take a Supreme Court ruling to force full marijuana legalization across the US and there is zero chance of that.
I didn't put a deadline on letting up pressure. Republicans eventually got what they wanted on Roe via the Supreme Court by not letting up pressure. There is no good reason we can't do the same.
There's a number of bad reasons, though. Principal among them is that centrists don't want to disrupt the status quo, even if it means preserving racist policies like the war on drugs.
So that pardons people who were convicted of using or possessing while located in one of the red areas here?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_lands?useskin=vector#/media/File:Map_of_all_U.S._Federal_Land.jpg
Aside from D.C. itself, that's what, Land under the control of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Department of Defense, Fish and Wildlife Service, National Park Service, Tennessee Valley Authority, and a few others?
I guess, in the words of Angie Martinelli "That's not nothin!".
Hopefully this reaches the right ears and starts more change:
The number of people we have in prison for this is bonkers and the fact that it makes life as a productive member of society much more difficult is absolutely ridiculous.
I was disqualified from a job offer recently because I was honest and told them I took a gel capsule containing THC and CBD for sleep. I took it over 5 months ago and purchased it from the cannabis shop down the street. I put several months of maximum effort to land that job. I feel stupid for being honest with them in hindsight. It's ridiculous. Cannabis is legal in my state.
Things that should have been done day one of things that never should have happened.
I agree it never should have happened but unfortunately that's the nature of fixing the mistakes of the past
The mistakes happen quickly and fixing them is done as slowly as possible.
The mistakes happen quickly and fixing them is usually an uphill battle
Anything looks uphill if you lean far enough.
Political change for the betterment of people is always a struggle due to the amount of people who are adamant that things are fine the way they are
I wish it were easier but unfortunately that's the reality we live in, there's a lot of people out there who want others to suffer
Accepting that guarantees it will never happen.
How so?
If stagnation is acceptable, why would any politician bother with progress? Progress is work.
There the Democrats go again not doing anything!
The demographic is changed on Lemmy. You need /s now.
Not everyone accepts half measures as complete solutions.
Not everyone who appreciates progress is accepting anything as a complete solution. I fit your criteria. You don't fit mine. My opinion is you have a detrimental attitude and equivocating any minor win to total loss diminishes the value of a win and kills morale and momentum for more wins.
Inertia. Winning begets winning and losing begets losing.
Treating minor steps as major wins leads me to consider minor wins as token gestures designed to placate with as little change as possible. Followup will only follow if continued pressure is applied.
If enough people are satisfied, the party has no reason to continue trying.
Per my other comment, I never called it a total win. But fwiw, if I'm going to defend the win here, not just my disappointment with sentiment in general on here.. this isn't minor. I'd call it major. Do you have any idea how many lives have been ruined by policies that are being rolled back? While you're intellectualizing the other victims of the states whose rights continue to be infringed upon, have you considered the experience of a single person that will get out? Or their families?
Have you had first hand experience with the legal system? For weed? Have you been locked up? Have you spent a day without the right to decide when you want a glass of water or breath of fresh air.
These are people. Not statistics. Not liberal arts theses.
You're not seeing the forest for the trees.
And my editorial and feelings about that, and this forum: that is cold and uncaring. This post was about human beings being liberated from unfair persecution. People instead are choosing to use it as a soapbox to regurgitate to the choir that there are also other problems. No shit Sherlock. That's why we're all on here, a common set of those beliefs. That has nothing to do with whether we celebrate the freedom of our incarcerated brothers and sisters. So yeah, this place is starting to suck. And if you can't see where I'm coming from and acknowledge it without being defensive or doubling down and shouting through me, you're part of the problem and never going to see it.
That's no surprise.
No policy is being rolled back here. All this does is pardon a fraction of existing simple possession convictions. The policies are still in place and are still enforceable. New convictions will happen.
Not for weed, but yes.
And as long as the racist war on drugs carries on, there will be more casualties, each one an unconscionable tragedy. I want that to stop forever, everywhere. I know that letting up pressure will delay that, at best, and that every delay is more casualties. More lives ruined, more families destroyed, more communities disrupted.
The batter bunted and is strolling triumphantly towards first, waving his cap at the crowd. Run, damn you.
More than one thing can be true at once.
Why did they wait until an upcoming election to do it?
A small step but hopefully a step towards legalisation.
This is Soros-funded Alinsky-style tactics to bring about the Marxist state!!!!1111ELEVENTYONE111 -wingers, probably.
Great! But let’s also pardon sellers. it was illegal to buy and sell, but only buyers get pardoned? pardon buyers and sellers, and let sellers open up their own pot shops. or, are we not a meritocracy? (obviously we are not and this is a great first step but it isn’t all sunshine and rainbows). You’re all going to vote Biden anyway because not doing so means you voted for trump. y’all are smarter than that.
Yes, in a bureaucracy, it's CYA all the way down. You pardon possession, then you point to that as precedent to say, "small amount sellers are basically the same, let's pardon them" a while later. It isn't ideal, but it's objective reality. If you have a better way, organize people to change the broader system (and voters) to be more nimble.
As long as we actually do pardon sellers in the future. I hate incrementalism but yeah, what can we do without a larger majority?
Go back in time a bit and see that earlier incremental step that Biden took on weed, you'll probably fine the exact same comment about "If we actually do the next step" - and now here we are.
He needs to do more, but he's doing enough on most things and the alternative is a black hole
We need to keep the pressure on. If we were satisfied with "Ugh, fine! We'll look into it if it'll shut you up," we wouldn't be here.
Nobody said anything about taking pressure off. The point is to take a clear moment to accept and acknowledge progress, and then keep pushing for more.
This is not that tone, this is more about people shitting on not getting the entire cake while they are eating a slice of it. You can want the whole cake, but if you miserably eat it slice by slice without enjoying each, before you know it you've eaten the whole cake you've wanted, never enjoying it, and the only thing you have to show for it is a stomach ache and a vague feeling that you never got what you wanted (when again, that whole cake is in your gut at that point).
This is the best summary I could come up with:
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden is pardoning thousands of people who were convicted of use and simple possession of marijuana on federal lands and in the District of Columbia, the White House said Friday, in his latest round of executive clemencies meant to rectify racial disparities in the justice system.
Biden is also granting clemency to 11 people serving what the White House called “disproportionately long” sentences for nonviolent drug offenses.
Biden said his actions would help make the “promise of equal justice a reality.”
“Criminal records for marijuana use and possession have imposed needless barriers to employment, housing, and educational opportunities,” Biden said.
The White House said thousands more would be eligible under Friday’s action.
Biden reiterated his call on governors and local leaders to take similar steps to erase marijuana convictions.
The original article contains 220 words, the summary contains 134 words. Saved 39%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
It's about time. Now it's time to reschedule
I hate it when people say Washington and they mean District of Columbia as a resident of the state... at least say Washington DC in the title for fucks sake
Why did he wait until an upcoming election?
It’s easy to see this kind of behavior as bad on the surface, but isn’t “enact policies that make people want to vote for you” pretty much the job description of a politician?
these demopublicans will throw any rotting scraps to the masses and ate it gets
all this fucker is doing is getting votes by saying keywords over and over same as the other demopublicans
all we have ever done is throw this issue around like climate change and human rights
2024 same shit all over again as every other election since who knows how far back
want to know who will win? certainly not the citizens
what good thing? who does this help? just a few people but enough for everyone to go yay biden
him and harris both have been part of the fuel keeping the current drug war active this is just some preelection scraps he throwing around to get votes without accomplishing anything
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_policy_of_the_Joe_Biden_administration
biden wants this to be a state by state issue just like voting and abortion and you name it
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/biden-promise-tracker/promise/1529/decriminalize-marijuana/
as usual this will leave a lot of people screwed and dependent on the geographic lottery for rights hope you are born in a good state otherwise its your fault and you should go vote
It's called federalism. It provides everyone the most freedom and follows both republican thinking in small government, less bureaucratic paperwork for the top, and more democratic policy making.
eg. if you live in a state where there's a huge meth problem, but no marijuana problem it doesn't make sense to be telling cops to keep chasing the one stoner in town or to go after some asian guy who just looks suspicious for wearing sunglasses.
Allowing for state by state discretion also means that the DEA and local police can be free to collect more targeted and detailed information to hunt who is producing more suffering.